 Coming up on DTNS, Huawei's new operating system. Why isn't linked in a cesspool? And the scoop on Australia's national broadband network. This is the Daily Tech News for Friday, August 9th, 2019 in Los Angeles. I'm Tom Merritt. And from Studio Feline, I'm Sarah Lane. I'm back in black. I hit the sack. I'm Len Peralta. And I'm the show's producer, Roger Chen. Joining us today, Raj Deut from Reckoner is with us. Welcome back, Raj. Thanks for having me. And we should also be welcoming back. Len Peralta has been gone for a couple of weeks being Professor Peralta. Yes, thank you. Thank you so much. It's great to be back. And hopefully my artistic vision will add plenty to the show. We were just talking about the various overpriced snacks you can get in various parts of the world on Good Day Internet. If that sounds interesting to you, if you want to hang out with us before the show, you can become a member and get that more at patreon.com. Let's start with a few tech things you should know. Adobe says its upcoming apps Aero, Fresco, and Photoshop for iPad will focus on experiences, quote, outside the glass. Read AR. And be fluid between mobile and desktop devices. Adobe's Project Glass Wing, which is still in development, uses mixed reality and display to allow Photoshop or After Effects layers to be viewed in a transparent screen in front of real 3D objects. Adobe intends to partner with hardware companies to create realistic solutions for the project, such as in the retail space. So eventually we'll be asking Len to do that in front of us. Apple's Bug Bounty program is not only expanding to Max, but also Apple TV and Apple Watch. At Black Hat, Apple announced it will open its Bug Bounty program to all researchers and increase the bounty from $200,000 per exploit to $1 million for a zero-click full-chain kernel code execution to attack with persistence. Gets less if it's not that. If a researcher finds or reports a vulnerability in pre-release builds before general release, they'll qualify for up to a 50% bonus. Huawei announced it plans to build an $800 million plan in Brazil's Sao Paulo state over the next three years. As part of an agreement, Huawei will invest in the state's Institute of Technological Research between 2020 and 2022, as well as in public education. Huawei has one factory in Sao Paulo already and employs 2,000 people. Nokia and Ericsson also have factories in the state. And US Secretary of Commerce Wilbur Ross said last week his department has received 50 requests for licenses to resume sales to Huawei. However, Bloomberg reports today, people familiar with the matter saying the US is holding off on decisions regarding those applications as China says its halting purchases of US farm goods. So we may not be getting that easing of restrictions that we thought and we have a little more to talk about from Huawei, Sarah. Yeah, just a little. At the Huawei Developer Conference, CEO Richard Yu unveiled Harmony OS or Hong Meng, as it will be known in China, an open source microkernel based distributed OS primarily aimed at IoT devices. Yu claims the OS is faster and safer than Android. The OS doesn't allow root access thanks to kernel isolation. It uses formal mathematical verification to spot vulnerabilities and a deterministic latency engine to allocate resources with real-time analysis and forward casting. As a result, you claims that Harmony OS offers instructions per clock performance five times faster than Google's Fuchsia and three times faster than QNX. Harmony OS will first appear in the Honor Smart screen to be announced Saturday and will expand over the next several years to wearables and other smart devices. For now, it still includes the Linux kernel from Huawei's Lite OS kernel alongside its microkernel. Version 2.0 is scheduled for 2020 and will offer just the microkernel with better graphics support. So my belief is that if there were no trade dispute going on between China and the United States, you would have gotten exactly the same announcement with exactly these same details minus the reassurances that Huawei still wants to use Android and minus the speculation that, well, we could use the Harmony OS on phones if we needed to, right? Most of this announcement feels very much like it's Huawei's Tizen or maybe as Huawei would like you to think of it, Huawei's Fuchsia, which is they're making an operating system for non-phones, because they know on the world market, competing with Android is a fool's game these days, but they would like to have an operating system that would make it easier for you to write applications once across multiple devices. Which could include phones eventually, right? I mean, yeah, exactly. It could include a phone eventually, but it wouldn't have to at the beginning. That would be kind of a long-term effect of this if it caught on. Yeah, they were pretty careful about not saying the word phone throughout this presentation. Like they said right at the end there, but they were sort of avoiding the terminology just to put, we're not running away from Android just yet. We want to reassure you that we're putting all eggs in that basket for the time being, I think they might have held off a little bit on this announcement if they weren't in this kind of sort of limbo land at the moment with the US. Maybe we'd hear more about it when a device actually came out like they're talking about later on this year. I may be wrong about this, Raj, but I believe this announcement was already scheduled like much earlier this year. But, yeah. It would have been a different kind of announcement too. Exactly, yeah. Maybe they were just going to talk about the product and more towards where they were moving. But the fact that they put this out there now, I think is sort of just poking that orange bear in the US just a little bit more. And even going back to the announcement that they're building that $800 million plant down in Brazil, ironically, that's the exact thing that Trump wanted companies to come and set up in the US. So it's even more just, this tit-for-tat sort of maneuver that's going on at the moment. Yeah, I think a lot of breathless reporting is Huawei's got to build its own operating system. They won't be able to use Android anymore. I mean, there's no way that this was all scrambled together in the last few months. This is obviously something that Huawei's been putting into place for some time. And it is a valid strategy that Samsung and Google are also pursuing to come up with an operating system that can straddle across multiple devices to be the place for phones in the future. Like you said, Sarah, like HarmonyOS could eventually come to phones. And the idea would be we've gotten so popular with the HarmonyOS on smart screens and IoT and wearables that we're extending it to the phone because that'll make it easier on developers, right? But you need to have that momentum first. You need to have the momentum in the IoT space first. And I think that's what Google's looking at with Fuchsia as well, which is they already have Android. So it would be a lot easier for them to get that momentum because they could eventually put out some Fuchsia-based phones. It's a big question, whether they will or not at this point, but it is one of the possibilities for Fuchsia. And I think Samsung has probably given up on the idea of ties in on a phone, but wouldn't mind if they were able to get it into that position at some point. And it's really the only way to compete with iOS and Android right now is to figure out an end around that goes through some kind of other device to where you get developers to be able to feel excited to develop for it and then have made it easy to be like, yeah, now that you've developed for this on our watches, your apps already work on any other device. That's the promise of it. The problem is while we can do this in China where there's 800,000 developers already working on Huawei, they filled a stadium for this announcement, a basketball stadium in China, but whether they can expand beyond China in the future is a big question mark too. I don't know if anybody wants to play some bets on that. Doesn't sound like you do. Well, not a betting man, Tom, but yeah, I think you make a really good point. Huawei, a lot of strength in China and to be able to expand globally in the way that it sounds like what Harmony OS is designed to do is, it's a big feat and there's a lot of competition. Companies are doing this very similar stuff. CNBC sources say Goldman Sachs is accepting credit applications for the Apple card from iPhone users with FICO scores below 660. 800 is usually considered really good score. 660 or below is often categorized as subprime. There's no official designation for that, but it's a reasonable point to look at. And CNBC notes that 13% of the $4.75 billion in personal loans at Goldman Sachs' Marcus business went to borrowers with FICO scores below 660. So Goldman Sachs has some experience providing credit to people with those low FICO scores, with those low credit scores. Now Apple reportedly wants the bank to approve as many iPhone customers as possible, and sources say the credit application process is designed in most cases to be completed in a couple of minutes. That's to verify your identity, check with the credit bureau that you can repay your debts and use some software from a firm called Provenir to make the credit decision. CNBC talked to one applicant who said his credit score was 620 and he received a card, but this may make more sense to you. His spending limit on the card is $750 and his interest rate is the maximum Apple gives 23.99%. Ooh, tough interest rate. Yeah, so for anybody saying, oh, subprime loans are back. These are- Good but then a house mortgage, right? Sure, sure, but yeah, the lower your credit score, the less money you're gonna have up front and the more you're gonna pay an interest. Goldman Sachs isn't gonna be doing anything that doesn't help them. Yeah, Raj, I don't know if you have a take on this. This isn't coming to your country yet, but are you excited about the Apple card? I think there's a lot of breathless reporting about what seems to be a fairly unremarkable product. Yeah, not really. From the anywhere outside of North America point of view, no one really cares. Just seeing a 24% interest rate on a credit card seems insane to me, so that's well, well beyond even if you do have a low credit score and things like that for us down and down under at the moment, so yeah, not our cup of tea and not really looking forward to it coming either, to be honest. The New York Times, John Herman has an article up called Why Aren't We Talking About LinkedIn? LinkedIn has a news feed with comment and share buttons at the end of last year, LinkedIn reported over two million posts and videos and articles coursed through the LinkedIn feed. It says it has 645 million users, 180 million of those are in North America, and yet LinkedIn has mostly avoided a lot of the controversies and problems of Twitter and Facebook, which would be competitors. The story implies that this is because it's a more workplace atmosphere, that and it also kind of acts as a record of you and your job description and resume if you're trying to look for a job. People can look up and see what you've been up to on LinkedIn. LinkedIn also has an internal editorial team of 65 who write and curate business content. And many of its best features like messaging people that you aren't already connected to require you to pay. Yeah, so it's a different animal than Twitter and Facebook because you have to pay to get the most out of it. Although Facebook, you can argue if you're a marketer, you have to pay to get the most out of it too. And it's meant for something particular. And while on the one hand, it's apples and oranges, and you can't really say like, well, but these are massive social networks that are attempting to connect the world. This one was really focused just around workplace environments. LinkedIn has been able to expand its mission without undermining the quality of its community. And maybe what I'd like to suggest is that is a better way to approach social networks. Maybe the way we solve some of these problems with Facebook and Twitter is having more focused communities where people don't want to risk their reputation in that community because they like it. Right now on Facebook and Twitter, who cares if you risk your reputation with Facebook and Twitter because there's no point to it, right? LinkedIn very specifically is like, well, you might not get hired. That's a big motivator to not say something stupid and to behave yourself. But if you're in a community of like-minded people who all love a particular kind of thing, I don't know if it's television show or whatever, you would start to feel a little bit of the same thing. Am I crazy? No, you're not crazy at all. Go ahead, Raj. I'd agree about that. It's a record of who you are. Like it very much affects... I just recently had a new boss come into my office and he already knew everyone and the sort of what he gathered as the personas by looking them up on LinkedIn. So what you share, the way you act, the way you interact with people on LinkedIn is almost a facade of the person underneath because it's you outwardly presenting yourself to the world as an employable person or one that's making connections in that. I kind of think of it as like the Tony Robinson of social networks. Like it's not a place where people go to sort of, put far out opinionated left-wing or right-wing opinions on certain subjects to really just representing you as an employable character in the world and very different to the other social networks that are around. And a lot of the things that I see shared on there when I do sort of bother to go have a look, a very sort of corporate in nature or a way of representing what you've done or how you can big note yourself a little bit more to make yourself a little more appealing to those recruiters or potential employers out there rather than joining your local community or neighborhood's Facebook group and complaining that the bins aren't being collected at the right time on the day. So... Yeah, yeah. I definitely underutilized LinkedIn because I've for the last decade now that's just where my resume lives. And every once in a while, like, oh, I gotta update that. I've been doing some things since the last time I was here. And then there'll be messages that I hadn't seen and, you know, because I don't have notifications on. However, many of my peers use LinkedIn the way that I use Facebook. It is a connection tool. There are articles being written and people are giving each other accolades for jobs, well done. And I even produce a podcast where recently the hosts of the podcast said, you know, let's change the promo to just drive everybody to our LinkedIn page because that's where it's gonna get the most traffic. I was like, wow, I haven't heard that in a while or ever. So yeah, I think it's what you make it, but I think Raj, you're correct it. It definitely has a corporate feel. That's gonna work for some people really well and others will feel like it's not the network for them. Well, it's got the downsides of an office aura as well, right? There's certain conversations you just don't have in the office. That's one of the positives is you don't have people parading around a bunch of propaganda from their side of the argument because people just generally don't do that. And if they do do it in the office, it's kind of frowned upon. So maybe the key is if you're gonna replicate LinkedIn's success in this manner, it's not that you replicate LinkedIn, it's you replicate the idea of LinkedIn replicated the office workplace, the office Gestalt. How do we replicate other polite areas of society where we don't attack each other? Is there a way to do that? Interesting. Discord's gonna launch a video streaming feature called Go Live on August 15th. It will let any Discord user on Windows stream video of their game. No webcam support just to their game to any voice channel for up to 10 people at a time. Now Mac and Linux users can watch, they just can't stream. And if you have a boosted server or if you have Nitro, you get a higher quality stream. Admins can also turn the feature on or off at the server level if you're like, I don't want people streaming on this server. But otherwise you can just hop in and share what you're playing with up to 10 people. So it's a game party. It's not a way to amass millions of fans. Yeah. This is very different. It's to my point with LinkedIn, it's replicating a bunch of friends getting together and watching each other play video games, not streaming your video game to the world, sort of situation. You know, another instance I think this could be really useful with is playing something like Dungeons and Dragons with your friends remotely. Like you can use streaming your friend. It's not, I know it's not a camera, but it's sort of more of that community feel where it's just the people that's involved rather than opening it up to the public to make, well, you could use Hangouts and something like that for as well. But it sort of gives you a playing platform that you can share your desktop or what's streaming on your machine rather than just, it doesn't necessarily have to be a game, right? So it's kind of interesting the way that Discord's moving to this community sort of focused element. I think it might have to be a game because it's using the same function that identifies what game you're playing in Discord. Right, right, yeah. Yeah, but it could easily pivot if it actually goes up. And the real Silverblade says it replicates the arcade feel. I think that's an even better metaphor because anybody could just kind of wander in to that voice channel if they're on that server and be like, oh, what you playing, that's cool. Definitely. Let's talk numbers, shall we? All right, in Q2, Uber reported it lost $5.2 billion in the last three months. It's a lot of money, but adjusting for multiple one-time expenses and EBI TDA, which is earnings before interest tax depreciation and immortalization saw Uber lose $656 million, still a lot of money. By comparison, Lyft lost and adjusted $197 million. Overall revenue for Uber grew 14% on the year with gross bookings increasing 31% to $15.76 billion. Uber's ride-hailing business revenue grew just 2%. Uber Eats grew 72%. Overall, Uber reported 99 million monthly active users, which is up 30% on the year with price per trip increasing 20%. Although after accounting for driver payment, Uber saw a 4% increase in its take. So... Everybody likes food delivery. Yeah, Uber? Well, yeah, not for sure. And Uber and Lyft both losing money at different rates. Lyft growing a little faster than Uber, but also Lyft had a smaller rider based with so it can grow faster because it's got more room to grow. The big question about Uber and Grab and DD and all of these is can they get to profitability? Will they continue to get the ridership if they raise the prices? And we're seeing them finally start to raise the prices. We're seeing paying drivers more, eat into the profits for Uber. Is this something where, I don't think it's gonna go away tomorrow, but is it going to fulfill the bet of all of its investors which are, we understand it's gonna lose money for a while. That's typical for startups. That's not a controversial thing in business because usually you're like, but we know the plan to profitability. We know what the plan to profitability for Uber is. It's just starting, I'm starting to wonder if they can get there. Maybe they can. Yeah, and a lot of this major loss for Uber, this round was to do with their IPO and paying out shares and so forth, but they still lost a lot of money. Even without that, I think it was over a hundred and something million. It's a race between how long can shareholders wait for the profitability versus do they lose faith in the profitability? If they start losing... The share ended up after this earnings announcement. Yeah, well, if they start losing faith and that share price continues to fall, then the race for becoming profitable is gonna lose out. So it's just a matter of trying to beat that bullet before investors just give up on a shaky ride that's already starting to look like the wheels are falling off. Well, we've already seen riders complain and in some cases protest in certain places around the world that their share is going down. So the rides are up. More people are using Uber than ever. If you account for driver payment, Uber's not seeing a huge increase in its take, but if you lower the driver payouts enough, then the drivers will go to another competitor like Lyft or stop working for ride-hailing services entirely. So it's a tricky situation. According to this earnings report, Uber has been going the other way. They've been increasing the amount that they're paying to drivers. And I would expect that to continue because they don't want to have these complaints. The complaints are gonna be there. The complaints are never gonna wait. Drivers are never gonna feel like they're paid enough, but they wanna get to a point where it's not obvious that drivers are getting ripped off. And to do that, they're gonna have to raise prices. And if they raise prices, how is that gonna affect ridership or is there more elastic demand? And then Uber and Lyft and a lot of these other companies say these sort of vague things about, well, we have this addressable market of other things that we can do. And that's usually kind of a vague reference to scooters and bikes and integration with public transport and maybe even calling regular taxis in some markets. So there's a lot of possibility and it seems like the investors still believe in that possibility, but we're starting to get to the point where we're gonna have to see the possibility turn into reality. Hey, folks, if you wanna get all the tech headlines each day in about five minutes, be sure to subscribe to dailytechmidlines.com. All right, folks, multiple plans in the United States have proposed some kind of system for giving grants or some other kind of incentive to encourage local governments or other organizations to roll out fiber to underserved rural areas. The most recent US presidential candidate, Elizabeth Warren, proposed a large grant if she were elected. In Australia, y'all have done this, Raj. And in fact, New Zealand has done it too. The National Broadband Network in Australia promised fiber internet for all. Raj, how has that worked out? Oh, where do I start? Let me tell you a story of two countries and how they decided they'd roll out broadband networks for all. I'll try and summarize it as quickly as possible. 10 years ago, both New Zealand and Australia promised the governments at the time promised that they would build a broadband network that encompassed a large portion of the population. In Australia, the guys that came up with the idea famously figured out the economics on the back of an envelope whilst they were flying somewhere and predicted that they could cover 93% of the population by spending around US three billion. New Zealand, on the other hand, thought that they could do it for one billion. One of those countries got it right and delivered a product. And the others is still, to this day, trying to catch up. And I'll let you guess which one it is. The one that spent less, right? Yeah, it is, it is. New Zealand did it a little bit differently. They went, we're gonna cover 73% of the populations and only focus on cities with 10,000 people or more. Australia went, no, we're just going straight out bars for everyone we possibly can. That meant covering very, very regional areas of the country. Australia is quite large, almost as big as the continental US and in land mass, but only has about 25 million. So getting broadband internet to all of those people meant that they were not only trying to negotiate with the encumbered telecommunications company similar to AT&T, our version was Telstra at the time and offering them about three billion to essentially build the network off the back of their own. And they said, no, and the government decided, all right, we're just gonna build our own and which will cost us around 30 US billion. And even then after about eight years, it was another nine billion on top of that. And we're still not there. And there was all these sort of roadblocks along the way as to why that isn't the case, change of governments, different ideas on technology, bringing in different mixes of technology going from having fiber to everyone's house to fixed wireless, fixed satellite, fiber to a node, which was a box on the end of your street that they ran phone cables to, fiber to the basement, fiber to the curb. There's all different variations, which have just made this turn into one giant mess that we have today. But for the regional aspect of it, that is probably the most successful part of the Australian story. But for us in Australia, they put up two satellites, they call SkyMuster, and they have a capacity, combined capacity of about 185 gigabits and costs around about 1.3 US billion to make and launch. And they work pretty well. They only have a 25 meg down and five meg up, so they're not exactly groundbreaking when it comes to speed. But for those in regional areas that were, I'm talking hundreds of kilometers away from the nearest town on cattle stations, it provided access to a service that they'd never been able to get to before, or using dial-up modems over very, very shaky connections. So in that aspect of the project, it's worked really well. It's in the more populated areas, such as cities, where we want these extra speeds, we want these things to be faster and have better quality of internet, but there's been a whole raft of issues, basically that the government sort of created for themselves in the way that they've done it. One of the reactions we get quite a bit when we talk about the United States versus say Korea or Japan, and I'm seeing people say it in relation to New Zealand versus Australia is, one's bigger than the other. That makes it harder to cover. How much do you think that actually plays into it? Look, not a huge amount, to be honest. The majority of the Australian population is on seaboard and there's pockets of population. Sydney has 5 million, Melbourne has 5 million. There's only another sort of 15 million in the country and they're mainly in big cities like that. The biggest issue with Australia is that there was no true fiber connections in the existing network. So we were essentially ripping out all of the infrastructure and putting it in. New Zealand, on the other hand, had fiber to most of the neighborhoods over the country that they were installing this with. So they really just needed to go that last sort of stretch from the end of the street to the premise itself. So their installation costs were significantly less because of that fact. Whereas we've tried to sort of go back and retrofit HFC networks similar to like your old cable networks in the US. And that really isn't up to snuff. And so they've ended up sort of, they bought two of them that we had here in Australia that were off of private providers. And one of them was a complete lemon that they had to just write off. And then the other one is barely holding on at the trying to sort of eke every last mile out of it that they can. With the US being so wide, I like the way that Elizabeth Warren has detailed her approach in that for regional areas that they want to bring broadband to that to do that they're bringing, creating a governing body that's going to give out grants and allow local councils and communities to be the ones that implement that infrastructure or contract the people that do it. But we saw Fiber try and do it in Austin that didn't really go too well because they were again trying to build the infrastructure from scratch. Whereas at least you have some sort of network of infrastructure that's Fiber for the most part that you can build off of as a backbone and these regional areas, even though the regional to you, they're by no means regional by an Australian standards I would say or I'd argue. So I think you've got a better place setting for one of these plans and nearly every Democratic candidate seems to have some sort of level of money that they want to throw at this. I think the worst one I saw was that someone wanted to throw a trillion dollars at building an infrastructure network. And I think that would be very much going down the wrong path, similar to what Australia did. But for the others, Bernie, I think said 20-odd, Elizabeth Warrens was 80. Those types of figures sound a little more realistic to me and would go after a model similar to what New Zealand has done where they encumbered three private companies to work under the umbrella of a new commercial entity that the government created. Yeah, it seems like the upshot of this is when you break up into smaller bites to chew, it's easier to get covered. And that if you don't over budget, it's harder to waste your money. And if you're looking at plans from various people, candidates, whatever, those are a couple of things to keep in mind. Raj, thanks for sharing that insight with us. No problem. Thanks also to everybody who participates in our subreddit, broadbandstories, very popular there. Submit stories and vote on them at dailytechnewshow.reddit.com. You can also hang out with us on Facebook. In our group, facebook.com, slash groups, slash dailytechnewshow. Let's check out the mailbag. Colin wrote in to point out that when anybody replaces a battery in an iPhone, this is in regards to our story yesterday, any battery other than Apple itself, and let's quote from the iFixIt story, quote, a message indicating you need to service your battery appears in settings and then battery next to battery health. The service message is normally an indication that the battery is degraded and needs to be replaced. As we mentioned on the show, this happens even if you use an authorized Apple battery. But Colin and a few others felt we weren't clear that this isn't a pop-up message, so we apologize. Yeah, I got carried away. I still think it's somewhat consumer hostile. It's certainly repair shop hostile. And it's probably less annoying than I made it sound yesterday. So I apologize for, you know, I went with the culture of outrage for a minute yesterday and it gets the best of us sometimes. Did you hear about this story, Raj? No, no, I didn't. But I'm about to or in need of getting a battery replaced in an iPhone, so it's good timing. Yeah, well, be aware that your battery health indicator might go away if you don't have Apple to it. Yeah, all right, let's check in with Len Peralta who has been illustrating the show. Len, what are you coming up with? You know, speaking of the culture of outrage, you know, I don't know what's gonna happen with this thing that Elizabeth Warren has put forward, but I will tell you that tech will have the best slogans if they're going to be out there canvassing for full networks. Couple of them are Wi-Fi progress, broadband for all 192.168.01s, ice cream for ice streams. And of course, the most popular one is just wants less choppy Netflix. So yeah, so whatever happens with the future of a national broadband network here in the United States, you know that when we hit the streets, the nerds are gonna write the best slogans. A little bit broadband for all 192.168.01s. I mean, I can't believe you gave out your admin IP address there. Ah man, I didn't even think about that. Dang it. Yeah, this is available right now. My Patreon, patreon.com forward slash lend or my online store, lendpropstore.com. Thanks, Len. And thanks also to Raj Dut. Raj, thanks so much for being with us today and let folks know how to keep up with your work. You can follow me on Twitter at RajDut, D-E-U-T, or you can check me out at reconner.com.au for a bunch of tech news reviews and very Australian centric content. And hey folks, if you're in Ireland or are going to be in Dublin on August 17th at 6 p.m., I'm gonna have a meetup with y'all. It's gonna be fun. You can show just how much more Irish you are than I am. Saturday, August 17th at Laguna. Laguna is right in front of the Mayor Square, right in front of the Mayor Square stop on the Lewis red line in a matter of fact. Thanks to Paolo for helping me organize this. That's once again, Saturday, August 17th at 6 p.m. at Laguna in Dublin. Also, if you're one of those people who always hears people talking about public key cryptography and pretty good privacy and you're like, I get that it works, but I can't quite conceive how it works. Today's editor's desk is my attempt to explain it for the average person, the person who has no math whatsoever. If you're like, I just wanna understand how this could work, public key cryptography explained in today's editor's desk available to folks at the $5 level and up at patreon.com slash D-T-N-S. We love your feedback. Our email address is feedback at dailytechnewshow.com. We're also live Monday through Friday, 4 30 p.m. 2030 UTC, 4 30 p.m. Eastern, rather. You can find out more at dailytechnewshow.com slash live. See you on Monday, folks. Have a great weekend. This show is part of the Frog Pants Network. Get more at frogpants.com. The Parliament Club hopes you have enjoyed this program.