 I would like to welcome everyone to the May 8, 2018 meeting of the City of Columbia Board of Zoning Appeals. My name is Chuck Sallie and I serve as Chair of the Board. This time I'd like to introduce the other Board members. To my far left is Reggie McKnight. Media left is Calhoun McMeacon. To my immediate right is Jean Deakins and followed next to Jean is Marcellus Promise and then next to Marcellus is Josh Speed. And that's the staff. At this time I'd like to introduce the members of the staff that will assist the Board during the meeting. Rachel Bailey, the Zoning Administrator, Hannah Slice, the Associate Planner, and Andrew Wolfe, the Land Use Board Coordinator. This Board is charged with hearing applications for special exceptions, variances, and administrative appeals. All testimony is recorded for the record and anyone wishing to speak will need to be sworn and must come to the podium and speak. No testimony can be taken from the floor and when you come up to the podium state your name and please speak clearly into the microphone because the meeting is being recorded. For all of those who plan to speak, you must be sworn. So if you are here as an applicant or here to speak on any case, please stand at this time and raise your right hand. Do you affirm or attest that the testimony you will give today is the truth and nothing but the truth? Before I turn it over to Rachel, I wanted, she's going to mention this, but we've got a full house today, so we will have a schedule of three minutes on the, on each person that's up to speak. There is a quite annoying little green, yellow, and red light right there on the podium that you can see. So I'm not going to, and Calhoun will also be chairing this board on, on at least one of the applications today because I'll have to recuse myself. But when we, we're not trying to be rude, but we will thank you for your testimony when the red light comes on and you'll need to sit down. We would also ask that you try to keep all of your testimony that we had today relevant to the matters that we're here, which are the, the, the listed criteria for a variance or special exception. And that's what we can, we can hear and if we can try to keep it that way. And if anyone or group is here and they want to have a spokesperson for that group and have, you know, they can come before us and they can stand up if they'd like and ask the people that they're speaking for to stand up and we can acknowledge that. That's fine, but you'll have to come to the podium to speak. And I think that's all I wanted to say. Rachel, I'm going to let you take it over from here. Thank you. All right, good morning. I wanted to touch on a few changes to the agenda before we got started this morning. Item number three, case 2018-0032, it's a special exception to lease remote parking. It was originally on consent. We've received a request to place it on the regular agenda. So it'll be heard on the regular agenda today. And then item number six, 2018-0035, it's a special exception for 3421, 23 and 23 and a half, North Maine. That has been deferred until next month by the applicant. So to follow up on what Chuck had said this morning for the meeting format, we will be using timers. We want to make sure everyone has a chance to speak today. So applicants are given 10 minutes to do their presentation, and that includes anyone speaking with the applicant. So an attorney or a representative, that all counts in the 10 minutes. However, if the board stops for discussion or to ask questions, that does not count against the applicant. Members of the public are given three minutes to speak, or if they're representing a group of three or more, they're given five minutes. So then the applicant does have time for rebuttal. Again if the board does stop to ask a member of the public a question, that time's not going to count against you. So the first matter of business is the consent agenda. The board uses the consent agenda to approve non-controversial or routine matters by a single motion. The member of the board or the public wants to discuss an item on the agenda, that item is removed and considered on the regular agenda during the meeting. So the first matter on the consent agenda is to approve the April 10th, 2018 minutes. Then item number two, case 20180030, it's a variance for a 4101 round top road. It's a variance to the fence height requirements. Item number four, case 20180033, it's 126 Atlas Court, variance to the off-street parking requirements. And item number five, 20180034, it's a special exception, 2917 Rosewood and 2909 Rosewood. Special exception to lease remote parking. Make a motion to approve the April 10, 2018 minutes as well as the new business number two, four and five is provided in the information from staff. Do you have a motion and a second on favor say aye? Aye. All opposed? The consent agenda carries. All right, on the regular agenda, the first matter is item number eight, case 20180013, it's a variance. It's 3006 Divine Street and that's the variance to the off-street parking requirement for a proposed restaurant. There is an associated application with that today. It is item number 12, case 20180036, it's a special exception to lease remote parking along with that variance. If the board wishes, they can make a motion to hear those cases simultaneously. Make a motion to hear case 2018-0013, the variance for 3006 Divine Street as well as a 2018-0036, a special exception for 3006 and 3004 Divine Street at the same time. We will hear these together, but we will also make our findings and approve both separately. I think I'll look to staff for some help that it would probably, should we hear the special exception first? Yeah, I'll give some background to the board. The special exception, what that is doing is to lease remote parking at the neighboring parcel and it is for 10 spaces. Those spaces are to be available from 5.30 to close Monday through Friday and for all hours of operation, Saturday and Sunday, the parking will be exclusive for the restaurant during the time of the lease. The variance is still being applied for because that lease is not for the full hours of operation. So for certain hours from opening until 5.30 during the week, only the 18 spaces that are available on site will be available. So that is why they are both being heard together from 5.30 to close Monday through Friday and on the weekends, the applicant is providing 28 spaces from opening until 5.30 on Monday through Friday, only 18. If you could also make the clarification or make sure that I think I understand this, but it's the special exception that gives the city the ability to enforce the lease parking. Right, the special exception for lease parking gives the city a mechanism of enforcement. As opposed to when somebody comes for a reduction with a variance, there's not any... Yeah, instead of making it a condition to the variance, as part of the variance, the special exception is its own animal to provide that mechanism. Okay. This applicant here, again, will go with 2018-0036, a special exception for 3006 and 3014 Divine Street. Yes, sir. Thank you for hearing us. My name is Frank Cason. I'm with Cason Development Group. We are the applicant for this project. Again, we came before you last month with just a variance request. Rachel's pretty much outlined the details of it, but the suggestion of this board last time, we are now essentially tying some additional parking spaces to this property via special exception. So, it does require us to notify the city if there is a termination of the lease, and the city also has the right to see the parking lease every 12 months. So, again, as a reminder about what we're doing here, there were a couple of renderings that were shown, but this is a conversion of a currently an office building where you max real estate. So, we plan to open up the front of the building and provide some open-air outdoor covered seating for a new restaurant backstreet. We remain excited about the opportunity to bring this family-owned, operated, and family-friendly restaurant to Divine Street into the city of Columbia to fill what we feel is a hole in the bid-upper range price point for families. They are here if you'll have a desire to speak to them, ask them any questions. Again, this is one of the parking arrangements that we referred to in our last meeting, and we are tying it now to the special exception and variance request here. So, if you guys have any questions, we are here. Do you mind running through the criteria for the special exception? From the application? Mr. Chairman, do you mean the... You would just go through the... Submittal. Right, it would be on... Yep. Describing what ways to propose special exception will not have a substantial adverse impact on vehicular traffic, et cetera, or vehicular and pedestrian safety and how adequate provisions have been made. We'll not have an adverse impact because the necessary or inquired amount of parking for this use is provided in the attached parking lot. Number two, describing what ways to propose special exception will not have a substantial adverse impact on adjoining properties in terms of environmental factors, noise, light, glare, vibration, fumes, odors, obstruction of air, light, and litter. We do not believe it will have an adverse impact since we are proposing to use existing parking lots that are in place right now. Describing what ways to propose special exception will not have a substantial adverse impact on the aesthetic character of the area to include a review of the orientation and spaces of the buildings. We're not moving any buildings around. We're keeping existing building structures. And again, that's consistent with the aesthetic of the character of the area. We're keeping the parking lots in place and intact. Describing what ways to propose special exception will not have an adverse impact on public safety or create nuisance conditions detrimental to the public interest or conditions likely to result in increased law enforcement response. Again, similar same responses. These are existing parking lots that are both connected and behind our building and the building next door. Explain how the establishment of the proposed special exception does not create a concentration or proliferation of the same or similar types of the special exception use, which concentration may be detrimental to the development or redevelopment of the area in which the special exception use is proposed to be developed. Other properties in the area do not have special exceptions, whether they were grandfathered or otherwise. But we have not found one for least offsite parking. There may be one there that we're not aware of. Explain how the proposed special exception is consistent with the character and intent of the underlying district as indicated in the zoning district description. With any applicable zoning overlay district goals and requirements, the proposed special exception allows us to utilize the property to the best and highest use that the zoning currently allows. Again, as a point of clarification, the current zoning does allow for a restaurant. Describe how the proposed special exception is appropriate for its location and compatible with the permitted uses adjacent to and vicinity property. We believe it's appropriate due to the lack of on-site parking, the proximity to other restaurants. It should also be noted that this property has more on-site parking than any restaurant in the area with the exception of urban cookhouse next door. Explain in what ways the proposed special exception will not adversely affect public interest. We believe it will benefit the public interest. I'll be that subjective and biased comment, but it will benefit the public interest by providing more parking than we currently have on-site as well as a new restaurant facility. Any other questions? Specifically, the site next door where the 10 proposed spaces are... Looks like there are more than 10 spaces in that rear lot? There are more than that, yes. We've vaguely discussed or broadly discussed the opportunity to get more down the road, but right now that was as many as they wanted to commit to. What is that currently? Is that an office as well? It's an office building, a sadler insurance, and there are two other office tenants in there, smaller tenants. You would be using their spaces after their hours. Is there any sort of dividing, raised curb or median or anything in between the site? There is, good question. You can barely see it to where the blue and red meet. There's two individual cars that are almost head-to-head there. There is a dividing line right there. There's also a tree right there at the end, so it's a very clear distinction between the parking lots. We've got a number of discussions with Mr. Sadler on how we're going to delineate with a sign right when you drive in, which should be relatively easy to facilitate. So there will be signage on the property? I think that was a concern that I read from... There will be signage...there's required signage based on the special exception requirements. And then we're going to go above and beyond that as well and put signs right at the entrance so there's... So people will know... It's very clear that you're where the parking is. And there's sort of a shared driveway between them. How would you pedestrian walk from the car to the restaurant? There is a shared driveway. It's a very wide driveway. It's actually been recently paved and concrete. It's that entire area Mr. Dinkins between the two buildings. There's a sidewalk on that side of Divine Street. And there is a sidewalk on that side of Divine Street. Effectively I don't want to be too specific, but initially you had asked for a 50% reduction. And by doing this, this brings it down by probably another 25 or 30%. I'm doing my math right. Yeah. And just for point of reference, we compared this to other areas in the city. Not that that's the entire criteria for this, but we compared it to five points. North Main area and the Vista. So we're at 28 spaces. If we were in five points, we would be required to have 29 spaces. If we were in North Main, it would be a requirement to have 29 spaces. If we were in the Vista, it would be a requirement to have 22 spaces. So five points in North Main both have a 20% parking reduction. Vista has 40%. Main Street of course has a zero parking requirement. So same restaurant and Main Street would be zero. Anyone else on the board that have questions for the applicant? Thank you. Yeah, we're going to invite the public up to come speak. I do just want to reiterate from the zoning staff and from Mr. Sally that we're going to use the timers today on all the cases. And again, if you could be specific about this is a special exception to lease remote parking. So we'd really like to keep it to that. So if there are other issues that people have with this application that aren't related to parking, just understand that we are not the forum to air those in. So that being said, if anybody would like to come and speak in favor or in opposition to this special exception, please do so. I'm Bob Hallman. Thank you very much for allowing me to speak. I'm a resident of Capital Place, which is just around the corner from this building, probably three buildings away. I would just note when you asked the question, Mr. Mekin, about what he had placed in his special exception application, I would assert that they're all just conclusory. It asks for description, but there's no description. They're all conclusory. And I would assert that some of them are simply wrong where he talks about having more spaces than required. He simply doesn't have more spaces than required. In that vein, if I might, I'd like to look back or listen to the tape from last time. And he came in here and told you that he was going to have 49 spaces. He said, I have 10 here, I have 12 here, and I have nine here, and I have commitments from these people. And he may have held up a piece of paper, but he said he had at least a written commitment. And you ask him about leases, talk to him about feeling more comfortable if this was in writing. He even talked about the lease should match the lease for the restaurant. He actually said, I don't feel comfortable taking that risk. But he said at that time that he had those commitments, and now he comes here and he only has one lease. He doesn't have those others. So I don't know what occurred there, but that was not accurate in what he was presenting to you before. I would suggest to you most respectfully that his special exception application fails to meet the law. There are a number of conditions. The board is, of course, established by statute. And the statute that establishes this board says that you have to meet certain conditions in order to exercise your discretionary power. You have the power to grant a special exception, but it says that you must do so by, if he's going to ask for remote parking, meet the conditions that are in there. There are two that he simply does not meet. One is number C. The lease must specify that the parking spaces are exclusive for the use of the prospective user, and also that they've got to be marked individually, not as a group. And to get a basis of what that means, the one before that, before they speak of leased parking, they speak of the owner can go and use one of his own areas. One of his own areas. I wanted to ask for five minutes, please. By the way, I'm speaking for the members of Capital Place as well as two or three of the other folks that are sitting here with me. That's the case, and that's fine, but we need to stick with, if you can grant him an extra two minutes. But then no one else from your group is, if you're going to take their time, we need to honor that. We understand that. Yes, sir. So it's my assertion that he does not meet that because it is not exclusive. In A, in remote parking, when someone can go off and use their own parking. It says in there that only the parking for the prospective user can use that. So that's what this remote parking is about, that it's exclusive. And the word exclusive is pretty clear to everyone. It's not exclusive if you can't use it half the day. You wouldn't want to explain that to a girlfriend that you want to be an exclusive relationship and then describe it like this. I don't think that would get very far. So I would submit to you that the special exception has not pushed this ball along any further as y'all were hoping in your last, your April 10th meeting when you sent Mr. Case in a way and Case in Development to do that. When the special exception fails, I'm asserting to you that his application for a variance fails on a legal ground that he is required to show. Yes, you can grant a variance, but you grant variances for unnecessary hardship. And he is required to demonstrate that he has an unnecessary hardship in regard to four conditions set forth by the statute and by the code. And the very first one says that there have to be extraordinary conditions pertaining to this particular piece of property. It's only extraordinary because it's simply too small for a restaurant. It's been a business for 50-something years. It's been an office building. It's been used. So it's not that this is some special having to do. I think it talked about shape, size, topography. Then he goes into talking about this is the best use. Well, that simply means it's the most financial. That was my five minutes. May I ask a question? Please. So when you say exclusive use with the off-site parking, so what you're saying is that if someone has to get off-site parking, whether it's in the VISTA five points, they have to have the exclusive use of it 24-7? Certainly during their operating hours so that it's available to them. I don't know about the 24-7. I'm new to zoning laws. I've just been looking at them and trying to understand. I don't mean to be cute, but if you're going to be exclusive to your wife, it's out for 24-7 or from 7 a.m. to 9 p.m. So what I'm trying to get in my mind is because I think it's a conundrum. If you make that assertion, then there wouldn't be any availability for someone to go and get off-site lease parking. Well section 17345 says that it must be exclusive for the use of the building, and each spot must say that it's exclusively for the use of the proposed user. And the Supreme Court has defined various terms. It didn't define for me the word exclusive, but it certainly has defined what a hardship is. And your own code says that this best use thing that financially, you cannot consider the fact that it may be a negative impact to this gentleman's business. Agreed. Thank you. Appreciate your testimony. I'm Kanson Foster. I'm here on behalf of Backstreet's Grill. I am also a business owner and a resident of Shandon. In fact, my office, the two buildings on the far left-hand side on the corner of Capitol Place and Divine Street are mine. I've been there since 2007. I've maintained a residence in Shandon since 2001, and I'm a Columbia native. During the time that I've been on Divine Street and in Columbia, I have noticed a dramatic change in the character of Divine Street and Shandon, and I absolutely equate that with the quality of the development of the restaurants that have come in with Urban Cook House, with Cantina 76, with, you name it, there's Tallulah. There's a new atmosphere and a vibe to Divine Street, and it's absolutely the direct result of some really good quality restaurants. Divine Street has become a place where families can walk the street, stop it at one restaurant or another, and a lot of these restaurants get their traffic through walking. When my kids were really young, I'd put them in a wagon and we would walk down the street and we'd go to one restaurant or another, and we still do that. We hold hands now instead of riding in wagons. And I am absolutely in support of this premise being turned into a restaurant. I think it'll be good for Divine Street, it'll be good for Shandon, and it'll be good for our property values. I've never known a good restaurant to go into a neighborhood where the property values didn't increase, and I think they're with the closing of Harper's and the closing of Divine Foods. There's a need for a good family-oriented quality restaurant. I've met the owners of the restaurant, they're good folks. They have a long tradition of running a restaurant in Hickory, North Carolina, and as to the character of the restaurant, the fact that one of the many letters of recommendation you'll have is from the Chief of Police of Hickory, says a lot about their character. I want to talk to the special criteria that y'all are looking at, and obviously the issue today is parking. And I love this picture that y'all have put up. This is an old picture, but if you look at the other side of Divine Street, there are empty parking spaces all along. There's actually 12 of them, and those parking spaces are always empty. My office looks at those parking spaces, they're never used. So to the extent that there is an issue with parking at all, please be aware that there are 12 empty parking spaces every day on Divine Street that are available. Also, this is an old picture because my favorite place where Urban Cook House is in this picture, and the aesthetics have changed. I love that old house and I hated to see it go, but as far as the manicuring and the condition of that site, it's actually a much nicer site with Urban Cook House there. I believe that the issues as far as the exclusivity of these parking spaces is absolutely addressed in the least. During the time that those leases are being in front of you, it's addressing the lease which y'all have copies of, which clearly says that those are exclusive to this business, and I think there'll be no issue. Honestly, when you go through the criteria, the only time that there's a substantial impact, I don't see any substantial impact on vehicular traffic, the impact on the neighboring properties will be positive. You're just going to have to be a stickler today with these cases. I appreciate your testimony, but you're out of time. Thank you. Are you with the capital group with Mr. Holman? Yes. I'm sorry, but he took your time when we granted him, and I stated that if he did that that we were going to have to... I have two sentences. We just have got to be consistent. Mr. Holman made the assertion... Are you saying, sir, that the capital place people have no more time? I'm saying that Mr. Holman took your time. Yes, ma'am, and I asked that and I qualified, and I qualified that. Just because he's my husband. Please be here to represent those who were not able to attend today. Okay. So everyone else, they just have the three minutes. I apologize. Yeah, that's why he's my husband. I apologize. All right, very quickly. I just want to respond to Mr. Cason's comparison of the VISTA requirements and the five-points requirements for parking is meaningless. Look at the VISTA. It's an urban atmosphere. It's a completely different atmosphere in terms of parking and how people live in lofts and stuff. Five-points itself, not the outer edges of five-points, but five-points is a completely... It's moved. There's no comparison between Shandon, a historic neighborhood that's enormous residential area to five-points, what they require. The point is, years ago from the Divine Street Corridor Study that was done when I was on Shandon Neighborhood Council, these decisions about 36 parking spaces and such and C2 were made then by a group of multifaceted people, including the Neighborhood Council, making these decisions. They were made for good reason. No matter what is said, they have 28 parking spaces when they should have 36. Why are we looking at changing regulations for something that was researched, decided because of the beauty and the specialness of the neighborhood years ago? The other thing he says about 50 parking... Whoever this other person was who said something about 50 parking spaces, I don't know how much time you all spend there, but there are not 12 or whatever was said parking spaces available at lunchtime and supper time on Divine Street. We live there. They're not there. These 50 parking spaces on the street, this restaurant, which is going to be a nice restaurant somewhere, is going to be a great place, I think, but this restaurant would be the seventh restaurant in one and a half blocks. If you walk back, I mean, it's nowhere to walk. It's one and a half blocks, seven restaurants. We're already tremendously overloaded. Where are these additional 10 spaces going to go? Into our streets like they already do. The other thing, one more point, is that... I'm sorry, but what a joke that they don't get their additional 10 spaces beyond their 18 until 5.30 when they plan to have a very active lunch hour. They don't have 28 spaces for their lunch hour. They have it for 5.30 and on. I really hope you'll consider the neighbors, the neighborhood. I beg you to consider the neighborhood. Quick question. Ma'am. Ma'am. Just a quick question. When you served on that board, just roughly when that work was done... The Divine Street calling? Yes, ma'am. How long ago was that? 20 years. The reason why I'm asking is that Divine Street has come a long way like other parts of the city in 20 years. Divine Street has come a long way, but you still protect the inner edges. There are reasons why it was not made commercial for a block or so from Divine Street. I'm telling you, seven restaurants in one and a half blocks, they're trying to shoehorn in a nice place, but it's the wrong place. They're trying to shoehorn it in where it's not appropriate. It's not that the restaurant is not appropriate. It's appropriate somewhere, but if you walk that place, if you just go look at it, it's a little tiny narrow space that's inappropriate. You recall, it sounds like you've been there for a while, but were there residential... Were there people living in houses on Divine Street? Absolutely. 20 years ago? Good friends lived right on the place that's now a lawyer's office. Yes. One. Yes. So things have changed in the last 20 years? Oh, I don't question that things have changed. I think we still need to predict. Things were changed. I've lived on Divine Street for 30 plus years. Things on one end of Divine Street have always been different, more commercial. Things on our end, again, I will say to you, seventh restaurant in one and a half blocks with 10 less parking... 8 less parking spaces than they need at night and 10 less during the day. 18 during the day, 28 at night when the regulation says 36. I'm telling you, it's already a terrible problem on the side streets. Talk to anybody who lives on Holly Street. It's sad. Or Sims. It's difficult. People don't have places for their own guests and family members come and just to park at night. Thank you. My name is Tom Carlyle. I'm president of the Oakwood Court Neighborhood Association. Oakwood Court is a neighborhood that abuts Divine Street right across the street. The church that you see the steeple in the picture is a member of that organization. And I'm here to represent it. We pull the neighborhood in of those responding an overwhelming majority for against allowing the parking, the lack of parking to stand. I'd like to reiterate that there were, there's 36 spaces required. 28 are available at night, but only 18 during the day. If you drive to lunch, you'll probably go to meet somebody. Lunchtime parking is a premium and we're concerned about spillover. 10 spaces available in the Sadler Building are not available during lunchtime. Those 10 spaces get eaten up on the street and then you have spillover into the neighborhood streets. Amherst in particular, but others, capital as well. So, for that reason, I'd like to say that we oppose that. Also, I think some attention needs to be given to where they're going to put their dumpster. Restaurant presumably requires a dumpster. How many spaces is that going to use up in their property? It's not going to go in the Sadler's property. And with that, I'd like to say even if you pass this, there's still going to be short six spaces. Eight spaces, I'm sorry. So they're going to be short regardless. It's the lunchtime shortfall that I'm mostly concerned about. Thank you. Susan Craig. I live on Amherst Avenue in the Oakwood neighborhood for 32 years almost. I'm here to oppose this special exception based on the criteria that are listed on the website that I've gone through. I'm not going to reiterate what others have said, but my belief is that this will be a high-traffic establishment if it's successful. It will definitely increase congestion and add to pedestrian hazards. The parking that he referred to is across the street. Human nature proves that people are not going to walk to the light across. They'll be jaywalking across Devine Street. I think it's a flimsy application. The parking leases in place are for year to year. We have no guarantee for future. As everyone else said, they're available from 5.30 p.m. on. What about busy lunch hours? And one of your criteria addresses, the concentration or proliferation of the same or similar types of special exceptions. Well, that to me is key. There's a concentration of this kind of exception for restaurants slash bars would drastically impact long-time neighborhoods, as well as Incarnation Lutheran Church and its childcare center. Noise, lighting, traffic for trash and food delivery proliferated would begin to erode quality of life for hundreds of long-time neighbors that have been there a lot longer than any restaurants. And I'm very offended by back streets justifying their lack of adequate parking by comparing this with others' restaurants' lack of parking. Is that what the board will make their decision upon? This is a very short-sighted reasoning. Will the board consent to adding parking problems on top of other parking problems? The Sunday hours, 10 a.m. to 10 p.m., would create a nightmare of parking issues for the churchgoers and as well as for adjoining neighborhoods. And I ask you to decline this special exception, and I'm among many long-time Columbia neighbors who post this. Thank you. Leah Lake, and I live at a 605 Capitol Place. That's my property right behind the building. There's an old fence that lines the building, and I wanted to come and tell you that I have posed the exception to adding more parking spaces, probably for selfish reasons. I'm doing my best to conserve that home for future generations. I don't know who will buy it when I sort of have a conservator's heart, and I'm concerned about those trees and the pollution, the inebriated people. This is a bar and grill. Now they're calling it a restaurant, but no one representing that have come and talked to me, no one has come and talked to me about my property, and I'm going to be the one most affected. So thank you for your service for listening to people like me. For citizens, good neighbors, some of the businessmen and women here, my neighbors and friends, Mr. Sadler, we do our best as business owners and residential to cherish the neighborhood. It's a very wonderful democratic area. It's a diverse neighborhood. We have students, families. There is a lot of walking traffic, but I can't get out of my home. You see it there? I can't get out of my home on Friday nights and Saturday nights due to those six restaurants. And also, I would like to tell you that I'm a frequent, since I am a conservator of land in trees and things like that, birds. I go behind those parking lots, not every day, but I pick up all the condoms and I pick up hyperdermic needles. The parking lots are policed very well now. We have very good service, if you would ever like to walk with me and see what are in the parking lots and you see those trees at the back, there's going to be a big giant canister of leftover refuge right by my home side. Thank you. I want you to know that I'm a charter member of, I know you can do it, but I'm not just an old white woman trying to protect a white neighborhood. I'm a rich people. I'm a Shirkcropper's daughter. I grew up in the fields in Aiken County and I'm a charter member of Goot Theopie in Five Points when I was a student. I ask you to be protective of our neighborhood if you can. Thank you. I live at 603 Capital Place. Sir, if you don't mind, could you speak into the microphone? Okay. I live at 603 Capital Place on the other side of Lear. Would you state your name again? Pardon? Would you state your name again, please? I'm sorry. Would you state your name again, please? Yes, Lani Turner. Thank you. Okay. We already have a problem here. It's an outfit called Lasco in the corner. They don't have enough parking in their space, so they can park all the way down the street. They park in front of my house. I put my trash out. They run over it, push it out in front of my driveway. I have to get out and come in. And this happens all the time. It's been about 10 times this has happened. And they also park on the corner, the corner house in front of it. I just want to let you know we already have a problem parking there. And this is just going to add to it. Thank you. My name is Anthony Carboni. I have an office at 719 Divine Street, just up the street from the other side. I live in Forest Acres. I've had businesses here for over 10 years. We have a group of us friends that live in Shandon and Five Points and Forest Acres collectively. We go to different restaurants around the city every week. Usually once a week we'll go to either Cantina 76 or Urban. I have no parking issue because I have my office at 719 Holly. But we all take ubers and meet the others that walk. So I just wanted to point out I haven't heard that mentioned uber as something that may be affecting some of these ordinances and parking requirements from years ago. At least me and several of my friends, we take ubers just for the convenience and not drinking and driving. So I ask you to consider that because we're pretty excited about another restaurant opening that we could add to our repertoire. Thank you. Anyone else to speak in favor of or in opposition to? Hello, folks. How are y'all? My name is Emerald D. Feliz. Thank you for allowing me to speak for just a minute here. I've owned three homes and still do. Well, I don't know now, but in the immediate vicinity. And the reason a lot of people live there is because we can walk. It is the only truly pedestrian community. I'd say it would beat Main Street because we have a grocery store and well, choices of grocery stores. That's the big reason people live in Shandon because we like to walk places and as the gentleman just mentioned, there's also Uber and whatnot. A big reason that Charleston is so popular for tourists is because there's no parking and there's 20 restaurants a block. The line that was referred to between commercial and residential, and I do understand where that comes from because that is the way we've built a lot of our municipal areas. That's the thing of the past. Another thing you'll love about Charleston is that you're walking along a normal neighborhood and there's a fish shop or a convenience store, something odd right in the middle of a neighborhood. These are real neighborhoods. That's the way the world has thrived and what we did when we diverted this with these hard lines, it didn't really do us any favors. I did write you a letter, which I hope you've got, that mentioned the automotive and transportation revolution that is already underway. And that is going to continue. If I had my druthers, I would take away most parking lots and then you really won't have a problem with cars at all because we're putting people on the street from A to B in many different ways these days and that's going to accelerate, as I said in the letter, just like none of us can remember how in the world we got along without a cell phone. So whoever can figure out what to do with asphalt in about 10 years is going to make a trillion dollars because there's going to be a ton of it. We don't need that five-lane street, divine. You can use three lanes and you can do a property give back. There's really where it's heading if you've studied these issues. So I hope that you pass this in the spirit of modernity, in the spirit of urban development that reflects many of the most successful and popular cities in the world. Thank you. Thank you. Anyone else who would like to speak? Does the applicant want to come back and address or anything that was said by the public or to clarify anything? There were a few things I think about. I just didn't know if you wanted the opportunity to speak to. Maybe dumpster placement was one thing that I heard. Might have been the only thing I heard. There was a point made about a dumpster and we have, there's a, can't see it in this area, but there's a portion of the building that sticks out. It's kind of a shed. It's attached to the building. We're going to be tearing that down. It's not currently in a parking spot. We're going to be tearing that down for a dumpster. I would just, I guess close with it. There was a comment that was made sounded like by those opposed and for that divine has come a long way. And I think most would say that's been a positive thing that Divine Street has come a long way. And there are many to Mr. DeFelici's point who would say, I contend that seven restaurants on a block is a really positive thing. And there are a lot who would say, wow, how awesome that we have seven restaurants on a block now. The Divine Street Merchants Association whose support of, and has written you all a letter, they're in favor of this. I think they would laud that as a huge victory for Divine Street. And I think I guess would be those in city government and the mayor, et cetera, would probably laud that as positive things. However, with that said, with growth, there's always difficulty and there's no question about that and we are not immune to that fact and that is the reason why we've come back with adding these things and we've got a number of parking-related concerns that we knew about initially ourselves and that we focused on from day one before we even heard the complaints and frustrations of neighbors who've been there a very long time and they're legitimate. And so we're seeking to do everything we can to alleviate those concerns. And protection is a word that both sides or different people can have a different definition of. Some want protection against the car parking in front of their house and that is public right of way. They can't protect against that but understand as well the concerns that that brings. But some want protection for property values as well and I think that most would contend that new restaurants, new retail, et cetera, new investment in an area provides increase in property value too. So we believe that protection is important and we value the place that you guys are in here and we are doing what we can with the addition of the special exception to thebearance request to continue to add parking here. With that, if y'all had anything you want us to clarify. Just one point that I didn't bring up earlier. It has not been adopted yet but I know you are all aware of the new zoning ordinance that has been proposed. Just for what it was worth we did compare to see what we would fall under and how many parking spaces we would be required under that new code. Again it has not been adopted or when it will be so it is completely unofficial but we are well above what would be required in that code. Any other questions from the board for the applicant? At this point I will close testimony and go to board discussion. I think we've seen a lot of these parking related issues certainly in the past. Seems half of our discussions are now parking related. Going back to I served for many years on the city planning commission and I noticed this trend as we were discussing the many alternative modes of transportation and a lot of biking and a lot of walking and then Uber sort of hit the scene also and you can feel the people are getting to these restaurants and these different sites now in different ways than just the standard drive your car and park. I live in the neighborhood as well and my wife and I walked up to Urban Cook House the other day and it was interesting we were walking up there and I noticed there was a single car in the parking lot and this was on the side of I guess we were walking up the Sims and this was on the side of the Sim side of the building and we said gosh is it closed and we walked inside and there were a bunch of people inside and there were a few cars on the other side of the building this was one of the really nice Saturday afternoons and it made me think then wow people really are walking more to these restaurants so I think Mr. Casey and Back Streets have done a good job trying to meet in the middle so to speak and done a good job with compromising here I think I had some concerns at the last meeting but tying these extra 10 spaces to the side of alleviated some but practically speaking I do think you have enough parking I think times are changing and I think people are using these alternate modes of transportation that were discussed others here today and I think it can work I agree excuse me oh heartily I attend church a mile down the street about the way in me and I totally agree two Sundays ago I left church and I parked in the vicinity and I actually walked I didn't park there but I walked I totally agree with you so I make a motion that I'm sorry I'm sorry that's it I totally agree with you I'll call you you know a couple of things I want to clarify well let me back that up by saying this I think I've been on this board for two terms I think going on 10 years and I see somebody on the back row I've really come to appreciate people who come and fight for their neighborhoods because I think it's important but neighborhoods change I was asking some of those questions but you know the Divine Street corridor has changed over the years I didn't realize I like history and genealogy my great-great-grandfather lived in Mr. Foster's house that was back in the 20s and 30s you know the Oakwood Court y'all's neighborhood has changed I mean the church bought up it was awkward I had a listing on Kirkwood and the seller did not because they were invested in the neighborhood they did not want to sell it to the church and that's nothing against the church I remember asking the guy who brought the offer if you're a straw man for the church a seller doesn't want to sell they brought a full price offer and that's exactly what they did they flipped it to the church and again I'm not vilifying the church but I'm just going to illustrate that neighborhoods change you know Millwood was not always you know y'all have now got up that they had to come in front of us there's a credit union but it's also healthy I put a house on the market on Amherst higher than I recommended to my client and I looked a little foolish I guess when it sold for full price in 24 hours you're seeing the property values go up in Columbia for different reasons and I think we need to strike a balance you know last month I was not for just giving a 50% reduction with that variance and I am convinced that this is the way to go that it's a special exception that provides for this and you know last month I made the comment and I think it was taken a little bit out of context but I said it to I guess if you want to look at it this way to kind of try to protect the neighborhood for people who live blossomed over who live on Sims and Holly and Capital and all these different places if we had tied the leases to the lease of the restaurant you know in my mind I thought thought it was almost a little punitive but what I figured out is that if we did that the city can't enforce it and they can with a special exception so every year when back streets or whomever when a restaurant who's got parking that's provided for there's a mechanism that the city can check off they can make certain that there's a lease in place you know this issue of exclusive I don't know if Mr. Holman's an attorney but I love listening to different you know and I hear what you're saying about exclusive on the other I heard what Mr. Foster said and it anyway that's what courts and juries are for and we're not that I do think this is a good balance so with that being said we'll close board discussion and I'm willing to make a motion or if somebody else feels to I do want to remind the board it needs to be two separate motions one for the special exception and one for the variance right so and let me make certain that we're clear so what we're gonna do now is make a motion on the special exception and pass or fail then we'll go to the variance clarify for me if it passes we go to the variance if it fails do we go to the variance that's up to you okay yeah alright I'll make a motion to approve the special exception for a three thousand and six and three thousand and fourteen divine street case number twenty eighteen dash 0036 special exception would like to include all the the to bind this motion to all the information that was provided by staff and the staff comments on page one and two of the packet and I will go through so this is a this passes we'd be giving a special exception give the applicant the ability to lease ten offsite parking spaces to be able to then get to the variance it's my opinion that that by granting this a special exception does not have a substantial adverse impact on vehicular traffic or pedestrian safety and that the applicant has made provisions to alleviate that I don't think that's an issue I don't think it's an issue that this use would have an adverse impact on adjoining properties in terms of the environmental factors three aesthetics or that there is no adverse impact on public safety or create nuisance conditions conditions likely to result in increased law enforcement I think that that's been covered by the applicant and provided for in testimony and the materials that he's provided to us I don't think that this creates a concentration again I think that that's been talked about today but in my mind it does not create a concentration or proliferation I think that this is a good use that this is within the character and intent it's in the zoning district description I mean special exceptions to variances or how owners are given permission to do things it's also a mechanism to protect the public by making people come for permission to do certain things that are under the ordinance and then to outside to protect the public and then finally I don't think that the public interest is going to be adversely affected I really think that the contrary this is a good thing for the Divine Street corridor and for Columbia there's a hole there's a second there's a motion and second all those in favor vote aye all opposed motion carries alright so now we'll move to 2018- 0013 Variance 2006 Divine Street applicant would please come forward and again I think you know the drill but if you would just state Mike what's your what the variance is for and then if you would please run through the criteria we'll give the repetition same property same request but for a variance describe the extraordinary in the essence of town you might have to read the the answers do you want me to read the questions as well yeah if you don't mind again if you would go through the describe the extraordinary exceptional conditions that pertain to the subject property subject property is an extremely dense area of Divine Street so there's limited parking especially with the parking requirement being 8 per thousand which we believe is high describe how the conditions do it above do not generally apply to other property or structures in the vicinity other properties do not require as much parking based on their uses and some have access to offsite least parking describe the ways in which the application of the requirement of the zoning ordinance effectively prohibit or unreasonably restrict utilization of the subject property requirements of the zoning ordinance if upheld would not allow this use which we feel is the highest and best use for this property describe the ways in which granting of the variance will not be a substantial detriment to adjacent property or the public good additionally in that way what ways will the granting of the variance not harm the character of the district the Divine Street District is as has been mentioned pedestrian friendly area so people need to park and walk to the bill this bill will be of course no different than some of the other properties in the district and we believe would add to the character of the district and this is this variance request the minimum necessary yes the variance request acknowledges that we will be using all of our on site parking spaces available so that it is the minimum necessary explain how your proposal is in harmony with the purpose and intent of the zoning ordinance and will not be injurious to the neighborhood or otherwise detrimental to public welfare intent of the zoning ordinance from our perspective is to ensure that there isn't a parking for each specific use and with the agreements that we've worked out nearby parking lot we we do believe that we provide enough parking for this use on the board have any questions of the applicant any one in the public that would like to come and speak in favor of or in opposition to this variance I'm Bob Hallman I don't think I'll need it but I would ask for five minutes for the members on the street that were not able to be here I misunderstood earlier I thought we were arguing when you joined them I thought we were arguing both of them at the same time in regard to variance and special exception I would assert that the variance fails on legal grounds the application fails it speaks in the code about special conditions that this property this property if if you'll pause his time just so if you can just if you can Mr. Foster you're not you're not on the mic and if you would just wait and I'll afford you the same opportunity as Mr. Hallman to speak I think if I'm addressed real quick I thought as you did that Mr. Hallman but I was incorrect in that he is speaking for the members of the community who are not here and I apologize again I wouldn't I wouldn't clear on that so you may have five minutes if I could ask a quick question are you a licensed practicing attorney? I was licensed in practice for 44 years I have recently retired from the practice gotcha but I'm speaking for Robin Campbell Ted Campbell Courtney Armstrong and other members of our street who have come before this is the third time we could not come so I am speaking for a group again give Mr. Hallman five minutes please the I'm speaking to the legal issue of the code requiring that you can grant a variance but the variance has to be based on an unnecessary hardship and it sets forth four conditions and the very first one speaks to unnecessary I mean extraordinary conditions pertaining to this particular piece of property and your form says size shape, topography and some of the case law I reviewed had to do with buildings where there was no space on the property or you couldn't enter it because of the nature of coming out into a roadway so it had to do with the specific thing having a extraordinary condition well that would fit everybody that didn't have adequate parking we don't have adequate parking we have an extraordinary condition but that's not what the the state supreme court has said when it's looked at this so the the third those criteria the second one speaks to those same conditions which we alleged there are no extraordinary conditions but the third speaks that the extraordinary condition which don't exist which we say don't exist prohibit or unreasonably restrict the use of the property and it doesn't restrict the use of the property it was an office building it continued to be an office building where it fits very nicely into the neighborhood the South Carolina supreme court in a number of cases has addressed this idea that just because it's their best use just because they can make the most money off of it doesn't mean they get to use the neighborhoods as a parking lot to underscore their business and the court has said that the financial situation or pecuniary hardship for a single owner affords no adequate ground for putting forth this extraordinary power variance affecting other property owners as well as the public it must be assumed that any hardship and financial or otherwise resulting from the existing conditions which were contemplated at the time of the purchase he just admitted that he knew about this at the time of the purchase and the owner should not be relieved there from to the impairment of the rights of others who purchased in reliance on the ordinance and have made large expenditures that's what we did we knew we were buying two houses away from Divine Street and we looked into what we thought would be the impingements into our neighborhood and at the time there was a house on the corner with a lovely family living there they subsequently moved and the gentleman who spoke has a law office there works very fine for the neighborhood the other corner Lasko has bought and as Mr. Turner indicated their building has 11 spaces they already flood our street every day some of the law office uses that street so it's already a packed neighborhood but I'm simply speaking to you and I realize you said that you're not a court but you are bound within your area of discretion to apply the conditions that are here and I assert to you most respectfully that they have not met those conditions Canson Foster, I'm here as a property owner on behalf of Backstreet's restaurant and I'll be just real brief I do think variance is appropriate I don't think that the parking is going to be a major problem for that area and honestly I don't think you'll notice any increase in parking from the parking that was part of the existing business in this restaurant primarily because there is so much foot traffic in Uber traffic I mean speaking for myself and all the friends that I know any time we go out and if anybody's going to have a cocktail they Uber it's easier, it makes sense and I think that's what a lot of people do a vast majority of these restaurants in this area are fed by the foot traffic of the residents in the neighborhood as well and they're coming literally from their house either biking or walking to the restaurants and I think in the consideration of this variance as far as what the public impact is is that it's important to consider the fact that there are in fact 12 public spaces directly across the street the picture here I was looking at was that picture taken I think it was taken at 11.15 in the morning which is right around lunchtime traffic and the reason I think that is because of the shadows on the trees but that's kind of at the peak time those spaces are empty those spaces are empty every single day I know that because my conference room looks at those spaces they go from my office all the way down there they're 12 spaces and they're always empty so parking cannot possibly be that bad in our neighborhood when you have 12 empty public spaces directly across the street from the property in question so I think that there is really going to be no public impact I think the variance would be appropriate certainly I understand the idea of being able to monitor the leases but what I can tell you is that from having walked the property having spent time with the owners of this restaurant these folks want to come in and be good neighbors they want to do the right thing that's why they are applying for the variance that's why they have taken the effort to get the parking leases so they can address those issues so they will not become a problem I think the allowance of the variance would not impact the public at all I think it would not change public congestion traffic congestion in the area and I think it would just be very good for the neighborhood and it absolutely will be an improvement to have a nice family style restaurant in that area versus what's there today thank you I ask you a question when you say that you're here for back streets do you mean that you're just here in support or are you here are you representing them in any way I represent them in the review of the leases to make sure that they comply with but first and foremost I'm here as a close property owner who believes that my property will absolutely benefit from a family style oriented restaurant going in that spot I'm super excited about that I think it's great for the community and I ask y'all to protect my business interests and my property interests and allow that variance to go through Mr. Honk someone in the public made the assertion that this variance that the application doesn't meet certain legal ramifications and you know I'm kind of putting you on the spot but you're an attorney and then I I would recommend the public I'd be happy to address the issue in that regard and that is is that at the I think what I would draw that and I think I'll just go with the council of staff but I thank you for your time anyone else that would like to speak in favor of or in opposition to this application good morning I'm Michael Drennan I live in Shandon and I'm also on the Shandon neighborhood council this issue is brought to our attention in our March meeting but at that time we had insufficient information to make a determination it wasn't clear how much parking the restaurant was going to have and then I met with city staff and they told me that I've walked the property I've measured it and I thought about it extensively my personal experience with that area is that there are parking issues there that there's insufficient parking for the existing establishment in that location several blocks of Divine Street I think it's reasonable to hold the restaurant to the requirements the parking requirements as they are I've walked that property I might be able to fit 18 spaces in there but they haven't stipulated where their dumpster is going to go and where that enclosure is I would imagine after that's done they're probably down to 17 as far as I know they're not in compliance with the American Disabilities Act they may not be subjected to it might depend on the extensiveness of the renovation but again if it's some future date they will require to put in handicapped parking but I believe that I don't know how many employees you're going to have a peak hours but I would imagine a lot of that parking would go to the employees I don't know after thinking about it I just feel like it's reasonable to expect an establishment to be able to buy suitable parking as outlined in the ordinance if there's an issue with the ordinance the ordinance is too strenuous then we need to change the ordinance instead of making an exception to it any questions? thank you my name is Sally Turner and I live on Capitol Place and indeed we do have cars parking on our side of the street daily you know that no one else could park there because of the cars now the one thing I want to know though is speaking to the issue of the legal legal issue if you all vote for something that turns out to be illegal then what does something happen to y'all or if the board votes for something that turns out that it was illegal I think that's a question that you should probably if you need counsel you probably ought to ask that or if you wanted to but I don't feel comfortable in us trying to answer a question that's legal in nature have you all ever voted for something that then it turned out and I think that if you need counsel you might want to get counsel to get an answer to that question you're welcome to speak to staff after the meeting about any appeal process if you'd like in other words if they vote for something then people can appeal the vote can appeal your vote like you say there's an appeal period for 30 days after the order is signed it might be helpful Rachel if you could make time for Ms. Turner if she so chooses to speak with her after the hearing thank you Glen Phillips Capital Place I just want to speak to you very quickly it's amazing that folks keep saying there are 12 parking spaces available in front those parking spaces are for the church the six other restaurants the businesses, Sadler the exercise place Lascaux those 12 parking spaces are for Cyprus across the street which some of these people are associated with it's simply lame to say that there are 12 parking places and you can roll your eyes but it's lame because those parking spaces are for multiple places and we live there and they are very rarely empty very rarely empty so I just want to say that's not a good argument those 12 spaces therefore multiple multiple businesses including the church thank you so I'm here I want to talk to what I think is sort of the silent majority could you state your name sure Brett Warren I'm sorry people that are totally in support of this place being here it's the exact type of restaurant and bar that I'd like to see in this community that I think is going to attract economic development that's going to be a good family restaurant for this area and I just wanted to come up and shortly speaking to say there are a lot of people that are very much in support of this place that you know just couldn't be here today because they're at work and they're at various other places but this is the type of place that we need so thanks thank you I'd like to rebut that comment it looks like a bar and grill and if you look at the menu it looks like bar food but that's not the question of course it's parking I'd like to reiterate that the 12 spaces in front are on street parking they're required to have 36 by zoning rules I don't think y'all are counting apparently the numbers don't mean anything I'm confused somebody argued that Charleston is popular because it has no parking I'm not getting that I'm getting the question of why why numbers why the requirements don't mean much anymore if the regulations require so many spaces I understand you can by fiat reduce it by as many as you want I think your question is how many is allowable and how many will be acceptable I suggest that what they're proposing is too few I have a business a block and a half down west of this I am all for restaurants and bars on divine street I think this particular area is so congested and just as a point of clarification this photo we're looking at is before urban cookhouses there it's when that building was a empty building and all the property around it was used for parking the restaurants that are just directly west of this so if you're basing your decision on a photograph it ought to be a current photograph and I think you should encourage the bar or restaurant to find another location a little further east on divine street where parking is not such an issue I do just want to speak to say that this is just an aerial staff made to represent where the parking lot were anyone else who would like to come forward to speak that's the case I'll close testimony we'll go into board discussion I think it's similar to our discussion from the previous item I think a different question but similar testimony from both sides I think I agree with Mr. Foster's testimony before I think the parking requirements here is appropriate and I think they've done a good job of compromising various issues that we've been discussing couple of things I don't think that financial issues should not we don't take that into consideration I think that was something raised I think it is we don't rule by fiat variances and special exceptions or the ways that property owners can get relief so to speak a while anyone that would like to make a motion make a motion that we approve the variance of the parking requirements for a needing place 3006 Divine Street subject to all staff comments second if you don't mind I feel very strongly Jean that we if you don't mind just running through the criteria for this variance so that can just be on the record please we've been through them a couple of times I guess certainly the extraordinary and exceptional conditions agreement was Mr. Case's statement the subject properties in extremely dense area Divine Street and there's limited parking we've all discussed there's many different modes of transportation now and we're certainly seeing a lot of requests for reductions in parking a lot of them have been granted because people are finding alternate ways to get to the sites I don't think the conditions generally apply to other properties there are structures in the vicinity certainly it's a unique site drive the ways in which the application of the requirements effectively prohibit or unusually restrict the utilization of the subject property certainly agree with Mr. Case's statement that the requirements and zoning ordinance would not enable this particular restaurant to go in there I don't think it's a detriment to the adjacent property and he's done a good job of stating that it's the minimum necessary in all those spaces they have on site and then they've gotten 10 adjacent parking spaces to leave in harmony and intent and zoning ordinance for the neighborhood it's a commercial district and it's got a lot of restaurants and shops it's a good fit there's a motion to approve is there a second? Second all those in favor say aye aye all opposed motion carries the next item on the regular agenda so it is item number nine Case 2018-0028 it's a special exception for 3126 2-notch road this is a special exception to establish an automotive service use if the applicant's here he's welcome to come forward and discuss his case I'd like to make a quick motion that we have a five minute break just to make sure everybody needs to rest or anything like that I've been sitting here for a long time motion to second all in favor all right Pat I'd like to make a motion that we restart the May 8th, 2018 Columbia's zoning board of appeals hearing all in favor motion carries so again we have Case 2018-0028 special exception to establish an automotive service use the applicant is invited to come forward came to speak on behalf of the developer for this project if you're familiar with the can I get you a little bit closer to the microphone so that people can hear you yes sir Anthony Hunter this project is a building that's been existing in Columbia and it operated as an adult entertainment facility for years and the owners now hoping to maybe bring something a little bit more desirable to the community as well as making it a service business for the community as well they've elected in this case we're going to do the automotive first they've elected to go with a tire change and repair facility and the automotive actually is the category that it actually fits best under this zoning request of variance in this case what we like to do we know that we've looked at the facility for a number of things in this case the parking on the facility is sufficient for the in and out traffic that the tire repair business be more than adequate for you know in and out changing tire repair in a tire that sort of thing we're at a point where we can either drive an automobile into a covered building or bringing the lifts out and change or repair a tire on a car the I'm just considering if there are any other things that it's not going to be a situation where it's going to affect any negative way any traffic we got three curb cuts in the one strip strip mall area any other exceptions would be basically there may be some sales of tire primarily repair changing of tires that may be balancing a machine inside sir do you have your application with the criteria for the special exception would you like me would you mind going through those for us please I'm sorry would you mind going through those in this case describe the way it proposed special exception will not have a substantial adverse impact on traffic floor that's basically that we do have a sufficient amount of parking there we can park up near the building as well as alone an area that will be adjacent to the curb there is sufficient parking to handle our traffic waiting as well as those cars are being serviced describe in what ways what proposed exception will not have a substantial adverse impact on adjoining property the way this building is configured the owner has actually three out of the four adjoining almost like a many strip mall actually three compartments to it and the owners actually own three of the four so there will be no adverse effect on the existing strangely an empty building caught fire here a couple months ago so the owner has passed and his widow has moved out of state she has that one unit for sale we're not interested in it so I'm almost I'm going to say that it's going to be some time before anybody is going to show any interest in it the outfit cost is going to be tremendous based upon what has happened and the electrical services primarily all electrical and the copper in the building was being taken out is what actually calls I think the fire when we look at it I got a question so is this like a condominium no sir it's just like a little strip mall it's almost if you can look at the if you're familiar with the auto zone like they got the restaurant and they have the auto zone and this one we there was a restaurant there was a night club and I guess in a entertainment part of this strip we want to take the restaurant night club to make it a tire repair company completely and then start over there's some drawings in here that show some door fronts and so and so forth but it it looks like it's an existing plans of the existing restaurant maybe the restaurant is the one at 3122 and we're not involved in that at all we're not here to talk about that one we're interested in the 30 the other two buildings that are there and that's is that 30 so that's 3126 and 3132 26 and 3132 the motive is 3126 and that's the one we're addressing now it's going to be the center section of the complex and it's showing the storefronts are those existing right now it looks like that's a planned renovation is there any pram renovation to the outside at all or is that existing? basically it's just been renovated all new glass, door front, new stucco only thing that these are as constructed that's correct okay that's what I wanted to make sure basically in the use facility primarily it's the building that's there now has been stripped and basically we don't need anything other than maybe a tire changing machine inside that building if the owners desire to put up a roll up door so cars or trucks could come in you know they have sufficient width height and that sort of thing to do that and the floor is a slab on grade so it'll be sufficient for that particular use as described in what ways a special exception will not have substantial adverse impact on the aesthetics of the characteristics of the building and others that basically configured pretty much along the same way all storefront I think there's some tenant glass and at one point there was an awning that went through the entire thing and I think with weather conditions and all that affected that so right now we're looking at a storefront aluminum storefront glass facility described the ways in which to propose exception have adverse impact on the public safety in this case I just don't see any adverse use because we got three curve cuts you can come in the left right or the center portion of the building there's a traffic light right at the third entrance or egress curve cut there and explain how the establishment of exception does not create a concentration a proliferation of the same well I think we got adequate in and out in an event that traffic was coming in you still got two other cuts that would allow traffic to leave so I don't see a congestion of traffic flowing in and out of this parking lot at all explain how the proposed exception is constitute the character and the intent of the underlying direct directed as indicated in the zoning and there's no tire service in the area there's no real other it's not as if we're flooding the area with this kind of business owners have looked at other things that go in there and didn't realize that this is one that required a special exception so that's why I'm here asking on their behalf today describe how the special exception is appropriate in this locale and I think it's because it's a service that can actually serve the community and make it you know without going back through some other tight business that would draw in a lot of people drawing a lot of you know if you needed a tire repair you'll pull in nine times out of 10 you're in and out 15 and 30 minutes even if there were two or three car wait explain the ways the proposed special exception will not adversely affect the public's interest these services will not bring an adverse service to the community I think that for the most part it would be something welcome and this is something that the owners prefer to do they just feel like there's a sufficient need for the business in the area and they do have sufficient experience in different locales and different states in doing this kind of business so with that unless you have some questions I really don't have anything to add or there's no other sales of any kind other than cars, balancing tires, changing them out repairing and maybe buying and selling of old or new tires Any questions from the board? Thank you very much Welcome We'll hear testimony does anybody else here in Beacon favor or against this application? I'm at 4036 Web Court president of Belvedere first of all he's not the owner he's working for the owner second of all is four tire places on two-notch road within four blocks of two-notch road we got two on belt line we're not getting any more tire changing places there we got three places right on the corner of a window and two-notch road where he's talking about this is a picture of the place that he's talking about it's the old Mr. Bees and second of all when these people come in they need to come and ask us what we need we are home owners decor infested with so much with the tire places it's a lot on two-notch road one just opened up two weeks ago so we got plenty of changing tires and balance and whatever you call it and we got three places right on that corner that do the same thing so we don't need any more we was here last week last month and he wasn't here and y'all deferred it and we had a lot of people last week people have to work and they have to they can't get off their jobs ten o'clock we're trying to get positive things in our neighborhood restaurants, hotels that's what we need business, nice business we got enough we got enough that's all I have to say I don't want to ask any questions I'm here to ask an answer any questions? thank you for your testimony a question for staff so as far as we know all of the zoning the parking requirements and all of that are okay with this with this use is the applicant can you come back to the stadium very quickly are you the business owner or the property owner and I don't think I represent myself to be that way and had no intention I'm just trying to figure that out for myself so I can know are you representing the property owner or the business owner in this case I'm actually representing the property owner who is the tire store is the tire store franchise is it local? it's all local the owner of the real estate will also be on the tire company is that what you're saying? the owners of the property yes sir would be the owners of the tire store yes sir they would be the owners, operators not in the Columbia area I know that they have in Detroit in fact I met with them this weekend and they had a couple of the other operators or owners doing it there and not only that they do have another facility in the Columbia area that if this one or whatever reason what's the name of that facility where is it located? they haven't opened it yet they're going to do the design and it's maybe 8 miles away from this particular building and what they've been trying to do is just find something that rules in this area without bringing back the old business I'm not sure that the old nightclub would not work I know that it would be met with substantial resistance so it was my thought that look change is something that's more desirable more community friendly and they have listened to that however they're sitting on this building a year or so almost two years with no revenue and so at some point you're paying taxes you're paying insurance something has to give so I could similarly agree with them that this entire operation and services will certainly be a change and a much better change from what the neighborhood was used to because when you got more than one in opinion it was a nightclub if it were a nightclub and that's how it first starts it starts as a nightclub and before you know it it's back to what it was before because that's exactly what it was owned for could you list exactly what the services are that will be provided in this store right now we're talking about tire changing, balancing selling of new of course they would be offering a warranty for new tires so no other service work they're not doing any car repairs or anything like that no sir, when thinking about oil changes and anything that would cause an environmental pollutant anything like that this is tire operations is what the request for and they are okay with or display at all, correct? they don't have a need for that, they got some storage behind the facility it used to be a outside dining facility that covered area behind the you know yes sir what's the plan for that sir what are you planning on doing with that I'm saying if they needed storage facility they had it in the back of the building they certainly wouldn't need to bring anything like that out front it's not one of those situations where they have to roll out 100 tires in the morning and say this is a tire shop I would imagine later they'll come back with a request for a sign and we'll put that up in accordance with the regulation for signage so you feel like they'd be comfortable if they had a stipulation that there would be no outside storage or display of tires we've discussed that and I think it's okay with them that we'll have no problem with that I have to agree with you it certainly is a lot better use than a nightclub that's your opinion is there a motion from the I think I'd like to make a motion that we approve this request for a special exception with the stipulation based on the testimony that we've heard today in the written testimony and it would be stipulated on the fact that there would be no outdoor display or storage of tires of any kind could I ask you to make sure I understand that we're talking about no outside meaning no front area storage or display no I'm talking about outside if it's stored tires are stored in the covered screened area that area would have to be screened as well in the back but absolutely no tires on the road no tires in the parking lot in the front no display tires anything like that there used to be the name of the old business there and I'm not sure during the last renovation where we actually took a glass out redid that and then restuck over the front whether that name didn't disappear any signage for a business that isn't existing anymore would need to be removed and then they would have to comply with the ordinance for any new signage they would have to receive permits I think that my motion stands second there's a motion and a second all in favor say aye aye all opposed motion carries thank you the agenda is item number 10 that's case 2018-0029 special exception at 31-32 two notch to establish a convenience store I do have to put on the record that no good neighbor plan was submitted to staff Mr. Chairman based upon the last statement I'd like to withdraw this application at this time until we have the opportunity to do our due diligence as it relates to those plans and maybe try to come up with some meeting of the minds with the community in fact they might even change what they want to do it for so I'm going to talk with the owners and express that maybe this is the best thing to do at this point. Okay so you'll pick the owner and then y'all do a re-application we don't need a motion on that do we wish? Thank you sir. Alright the next item on the agenda is item number 11 on new business it's case 2018-0031 special exception at 64-01 Easter street a special exception to establish a residential care facility if the applicants are here they are welcome to come forward. Yes ma'am could you get just a little closer to the microphone so we can hear you. I have the opportunity to explain why I would like to use the property. Could you speak a little louder? Okay I'm nervous I'm here to ask y'all to give me the opportunity me and Mr. Dudley to use the property at 64-01 Easter street for homeless veterans it would be like a temporary housing to help assist them to get them off the street okay thank you is to get them off the street I came involved with the veterans back in the early part of 2000 when I was doing my work study and I was assigned to the old salvation army when it was a located downtown at first I was a little nervous because I've never worked with people that was homeless and when I got there my heart just well when I saw that these men that had fought for our country were living on the street they had mental illness why I'm here today is to ask y'all to give us a special exemption to be able to not house them permanently but I want to open that home up to temporarily to give them housing to help them find a stable place to live to also direct them to agencies that can assist them if they have mental illness or any issues that they have there are rules that we have I'm sorry to bring any with me but we will be doing background checks there will be a drug test done monthly we're not looking to house them no longer than six months because within six months they should be able to find permit housing hi my name is Dudley Knoll okay I'm the owner of 64 1 Easter street okay and we're here to ask for this special exemption no okay it's the thing that okay we had purchased this property with the intention of turning it into a home for our homeless veterans you know and that's what we'd like to use it for you know as Miss Staples had stated you know okay we'll be doing background checks on the people that we'll be bringing in okay when I had originally went in front of Miss Bailey okay she had told me that there was some concerns and she gave me the names of two people that expressed concerns okay I reached out to these people three times each okay and none of them ever responded you know okay so if there were concerns from the area you know I don't know why they didn't respond at that particular time you know okay but we're in front of the city council to ask for this special exemption now thank you are you familiar with the criteria for the special exception that you filled out when you made the application well Mr. Dully had filled it out so would you was I familiar with who filled out the application for the special exception Miss Bailey assisted me in filling out the application I'm sorry I can't understand you sir Miss Bailey assisted me in filling out the application okay so can you do those for us and explain why this meets those criteria to what through the criteria that you have filled out the criteria if you go to the next page it's this right here those questions that you filled out on that application okay which particular question so let's start with number one okay what ways to propose special exception will not have a substantial adverse impact on vehicular traffic or vehicular and pedestrian safety and how adequate provisions are made in proposed accession for parking and for loading and unloading okay well we have a driveway at the house okay so it's a thing that we'll be using the driveway for loading or unloading and we will not disrupt any of the traffic in the area and we'll only be allowing one how are you going to transport how would the residents be transported to and from the place is that you all got that figured out well we have public transportation available in the area okay and then the second one is describing what ways to propose special exception will not have a substantial adverse impact on adjoining properties in terms of environmental factors and lights, noise layer vibration fumes destruction of air or light and or litter okay we will not be changing anything on the outside okay all of the activities will be conducted inside the home okay it's a six bedroom home okay so we have more than ample space inside describing what ways to propose special exception will not have a substantial adverse impact on the aesthetic character of the area to include a review of the orientation and spacing of buildings we're going to use the property to house homeless veterans okay these are people that have fought for our country okay that have experienced hard times and for one reason or another have not been able to find housing like the system in that area number four describe the ways in which to propose special exception will not have an adverse impact on public safety or create nuisance conditions detrimental to the public interest or conditions likely to result in increased law enforcement response okay well it's a thing that staff member will be on the property okay currently her brother is staying there you know okay and he'll be renting one of the rooms okay and okay I'm retired okay and I live maybe about 10 or 15 minutes away so you know it's a thing that I'll be going over there on a daily basis so a staff member that just are you running this facility it's going to be Mr. Newell and I will be their money through Friday from 8 to 5 so someone's staying there currently yes he's protecting the property until we get it filled it's my brother I can't hear you ma'am could you he's staying there to protect the property until we get it filled and y'all y'all have experience in doing this the residential care facilities currently right now I work in a community based home I work with adults that I have function so pretty much I know what to do I know how to assist them okay and is this a 501C3 or is this just the two of you guys just getting together the goodness of your hearts or what's the how how is this for it's just my dream it's just I've been a caregiver for 34 years I pretty much have taken care of people with dementia and Alzheimer's and when I went back to school to become a social worker and like I said when I ended up at the Salvation Army I saw that it was a great need I saw men and women that had fought for our country that were lying on the street and if you can recall back here about 20 years ago when homeless really started hitting Columbia and they were lying downtown on the streets and panhandling I was a part of helping a lot of them get off that off the street trying to find permanent housing I just want to be able to help them you know because they put their life on the line for us now we need to do something for them because if you look now they're coming back now from this war and they're coming back having no place to live and I think we need to do our part just like they put their life on the line for us we need to fight for them as well number five explain how the establishment of proposed exception does not create a concentration or privilation of the same similar types of special exception use which concentration may be detrimental to the development of the redevelopment of the area in which the special exception use is proposed to be developed okay well I know we're not okay there are no other such facilities in the area okay so we don't feel that would be a problem of overcrowding the area is that a statement that you made after researching where there might be other facilities in the area or not or is that just a statement that you noticed no well we we went around the area okay we spoke to you know both neighbors on both sides you know and they told us that there was no such facility in the area you know so when you say area what do you mean by that we're gonna I'm gonna do make make sure that we're putting the right people trust me I'm gonna do extensive background checks they will be monthly drug testing as well as long as they are living there and I'm looking at housing them no more than six months because I figure after six months you should be able to I should be able to find somewhere for them to go and then you'd be welcoming another group of yes yes so it's not where it's going to be permanent housing I want to help those who want to be helped and I also want to say Mr. Wilson had came out on May the 3rd Mr. Dutland I wasn't there and it was told that someone from the community he came out because people from the community had stated that we had the house filled with people and so he needed to come inside and see well that wasn't true and I feel that Mr. Wilson should have contacted Mr. Dutland I and I would have been more than happy to let him come through and walk through the house to see that it wasn't anybody there and then also explain to him what I was trying to do you know what I want to do for the homeless veterans and I can understand the concern you know of bringing people into the neighborhood because a lot of them have been there for years I understand that but I assured you I would do my best to make sure I put the right people into that home because I already have rules already said it's just a one strike I'm not giving three strikes I'm giving them one strike and once they fail if no alcohol would be allowed there no drug use no overnight gas you can have someone if you know it's going to be a house for men they can have a female visit but there's no overnight gas there's no laudering on the front you have to smoke on the back if you smoke cigarettes so I have a lot of rules and I wish I would have bought that with me this morning to show y'all that we're doing everything we can to make that neighborhood safe. Finally though the last two explain how the proposed zoning exception is consistent with the carat intent of the underlying district as indicated in the zoning district description with any applicable zoning overlay district goals or requirements okay well this is a residential area and we intend to use it for residential purposes okay so we don't feel that we're you know in opposition to that you know I think it's single family residential is it right? General residential okay Seven describe how the proposed special exception is appropriate for its location and compatible with the permitted uses adjacent to and in vicinity of the property. Correction on note it is single family I misspoke. It is single family residential. Okay getting back to that last statement you do understand there's a difference in single family residential is intended for that house to be used as a single family not as a boarding house correct right? We're a boarding house correct but residential cares are permitted by special exception in these districts right you just want to make that clear yeah that's why they're here today right Zone number seven describe how the proposed special exception is appropriate for its location and compatible with the permitted uses adjacent to it and in the vicinity of the property okay well we feel that this area is undecided okay in terms of you know being able to provide homeless veterans you know with housing okay so Do you think that they'll be coming from this particular area the homeless veterans that y'all be housing? No I have been in contact with the VA What now? We have made contact with the VA to provide you know sorry to provide housing for them So you have a contract with the VA is that right? No we have spoken with someone I'm one of the social workers and she once we get the okay from here then she's going to help me provide a place for them okay I was just the statement that the area is underserved it's actually the veterans we don't know where they're coming from right? No where they originally came from No Okay Number A explain in what ways proposed special exception will not adversely affect the public interest Okay well our intentions are to take people off the streets you know which in turn will help the community will definitely serve a community need because homelessness is you know running rampant Okay people need places to live If you look at downtown Columbia now you don't see it but back in the early part of 2000 they were lying all over the place they were paying handling and like I say I was a part of that I was a part of getting a lot of them off the street and finding permanent housing for them Very good Any other questions from the board? Quick question First I would like to commend you on your idea in your attempt here I think it's very well intentioned and I think you should be applauded for that but I do have a couple of questions I guess one concern I have is what do I'm looking at the overhead shot of the house situated in the middle of the lot looks like a fairly large sized house for the lot What do these people, the homeless veterans, what would they do during the daytime what would help explain to us what they would do In the daytime while I'm there I'll be helping them within the assistance that they need we're basically going to start working on housing and those who need any mental health I will be contacting mental health setting up appointments for them to go there I'm also looking into finding agencies that assist us with vouchers for transportation for those who doesn't have a car and can take the bus but I'll pretty much be there every day helping them with the needs and getting them the information and directing them to the right agency that will assist them so it's not like they're going to be lying around they're going to be, you know, doing stuff and they're going to also be a part in keeping the property up Is there any sort of fence around the backyard of this property? Yes, it's fenced in except the front part is where they're going to drive in is where they're going to park because we're planning on paving the side where they'll have access to the park if they have their own transportation so they won't be parking on the street at all so we won't be blocking anything The back of the house has a terrace that's fenced in and it also has an extensive backyard I think one concern that I would have about this is what happens during the daytime I guess my main concern is some of these homeless veterans not having anything to do during the daytime and sort of wandering around and infiltrating into the neighborhood That's the concern that I have Well, like I say I will be there and I'm looking at now not a certain kind of homeless veteran I'm not going to be looking at the ones who are going to be roaming the street because we're going to interview them I'm going to see where their mindset is so I guess we'll cross that bridge when we get there but I'm quite sure the ones I'm looking at taking in won't be the ones roaming the street it's the ones who are going to be interested in me helping them getting to the next level in their life Basically, we're interested in people that are interested in trying to better their situation You know, okay You know, people that would be willing to take the information that we're going to give them and utilize it If we can direct them to housing we would expect them to take advantage of that If they need mental health they would be able to take advantage of the mental health facilities Okay, whatever area that they may need assistance in we'll be there to try and provide it Well, the house has six bedrooms Okay, we have one bedroom that we intend to use as an office space Okay, so there are five other bedrooms available Right, the maximum number would be five Yes, that's what my brother will come in at He will be the nice staff there Well, we're going to rent out four He'll take the other one No, he has one of the bedrooms So, okay We're going to be four bedrooms Right What I've got a great concern about is being able to effectively help people You need a business plan You need to have you know, partnerships with different people You need to have the ability to refer if someone's got an issue to refer them to other to other agencies I'm not saying that I necessarily have a problem per se with this use in this location but without a business plan it's just hard to to pin down what you're trying to do Well, I have a business it's not quite finished yet but I have started working on some of the things that we will be doing Well, maybe and I'm just suggesting this but it might be that you're just a little premature and making this application and you know it makes it easier for me I won't speak for the other board members but to grant something like this we need a lot of specificity we need What could I come back with a business plan? Well, I think that if you were going to withdraw your application that would be up to you or defer but I just you know I don't want to cut anybody short and I don't want to and I'm not saying let me be clear I mean a business plan is not you know an automatic you come back with a business plan next month or at some point in the future that's not an automatic it would help in making a decision but I don't want you to leave thinking that that if you come back with a business plan that that's the only thing required to get to affirmative with this with this application you know whether you withdraw it or not or defer it is up to you but I just know and again I can only speak for myself but I can't vote for something affirmative today just based on what I've got and again I'm not saying that I could vote for it in the future necessarily I'm not saying that I couldn't but today I can you know unless someone else speaks up in board discussion after the public but my thought would be to make a motion to deny this I don't want to agree and again I want to make sure that everybody's got a chance to speak but I think that's anyway repeat myself again I think whether you defer withdraw is up to you okay well we're willing to withdraw the application okay and we'll come back with the business plan we'll come back with the house rules that we've set up you know okay I see now we didn't come prepared I also think that it's critical but there's no requirement that that you meet with those people who are affected by it and I think if you you know as you turn around you'll see that there's a lot of people I don't know if they're hearing support of or opposition to but my assumption would be is that they're not clear about what you're trying to do and again said this earlier in another case I applaud people who fight for their neighborhoods and I would just encourage you but it's not required that you go and talk with those people who no well you know I attempted to reach out to them I can't get into all that but again I just think that it's a good idea to do that I understand what you're saying okay but you know when Miss Bailey gave me the information I attempted three times to contact each one of them well I don't want to do a head count but I can assure you it's like there's plenty of people that will probably have about 50 people that would love to talk to yeah no well there seem to be a lot of people here in our position you know okay but anyway I'm just giving you friendly advice whether you choose to act on or not but it just seems like when we have these types of applications and you have neighbors that come out I think a lot of times it's because there's not enough information out there for people to make up their minds and I hear you I'm not debating it I'm not going to debate it if you try to contact people but I will assure you when you talk out this door I bet you there are a lot of people that would love to meet with you if not now they'll set up a time but again that's not a requirement for you to come back no we're willing to withdraw the application and come back with the business plan house rules okay again I'll attempt to contact the people that are in opposition okay I'm willing to give my name to anyone that's in opposition okay they can contact me you know and you know they can see what I went into so okay I mean I don't know what else I can do in order to contact well I'm not what's the procedure you know at this point in the game I just don't know whether it can be withdrawn or whether we have to actually vote to allow them to defer it I mean that's what I'm suggesting they can withdraw until a motion is made until a motion is made um so I mean I'm not going to say but my understanding is that y'all have withdrawn this request is that correct well the motion has not been made and the applicant has indicated that they wish to withdraw the application is that correct yes that deadline is tomorrow but you can we'll talk after the meeting okay just so that the board I know that there's a lot of people here that have taken their time out today and I know that you're here with concerns and we've read the correspondence as well and understand that and um I just wanted to um you know if there's one or two spokesmen that would like to be able to talk right now just before we adjourn I'd be glad to let you come up and just so that you're here and I hate to waste people's time like that if you don't thank y'all very much and that way you can at least um you know express what your concerns are yes ma'am my name is Charmaine Pope Clowney and my mother and I she's 90 years old she's here today she's a retired school teacher she's been living in the neighborhood for 54 years and thank you so much for your questions and for encouraging this person to withdraw because it's obvious to me that they did not clearly demonstrate or present any evidence at all that this special exception should be granted but more importantly I'm here if in fact this is reinstated for a later time to say that most of us here in the Greenview community are opposed to granting a special exception as a variance because number one the quality of life for as you can see mostly elderly African-American Greenview residents would be adversely impacted by having a residential care facility although for veterans very good idea but not good at all near to AJ Lewis school two blocks away it would increase public nuisance safety problems likelihood for additional noise cause additional parking a good business plan if that could be drawn up I think that if they could show that but I really don't think they can show that potential for a crime and as much as I love veterans they fought for our country I have relatives who are veterans but the research and I could provide that to you indicate that many veterans have problems with crime, drugs and all of that and being so closely to a daycare center we have read daycare center three blocks away it just really pains me also there are two similar residential care facilities located within a two mile radius of this one and it's on Dobie Street and Cindy Drive this was given to me by a lady had to go back to work and also one thing that research indicates that in zip code 29203 which is inhabited by mostly African-Americans they're just too many it's just saturated and I'm wondering why that is and if there is a racially discriminatory intent against this and there have been attorneys attorneys contacted on this and we're wondering if in the vein of Ms. Majeska Simpkins and Matthew Perry we should follow Lawson against City of Columbia but anyway for reasons I'll grab my time up I just have a couple more things I really appreciate all the work you do questions that you've asked but this property owner didn't even meet with us didn't provide a business plan we haven't seen demonstration of liability insurance criminal background check forms his background is in question I had my assistant used to be I'm an old retired Southern lawyer and they came back to live with my mama but my assistant pulled this off the internet whether it's true or false or whatever there are at least eight tax liens against Mr. Nelson he can rebut that but I have these or tax warrants for the state of New York and federal and I'm going to introduce this into evidence we don't really that that shows also if this person has tax liens then how they're going to successfully run a facility even if they have a property manager but again we've lived here all our lives these people have worked when they could not live in white neighborhoods and our neighborhood is just saturated with these kinds of facilities and please for the sake of our kids for the sake of our elderly residents and I'm one of those I'm chronologically gifted now I'm over a certain age please please please do not change the quality of our neighborhood our people have worked really really hard to maintain their property values which might be impacted and I really appreciate we appreciate all you do and thank you so much thank you thank you very much I think you very eloquently stated the concerns of your community and appreciate that that matter has been withdrawn I guess we'll go to the next one we have one last case on the agenda so it is the case that was removed from the consent agenda it is item number three case 2018 0032 it is a special exception at 902 Hardin and 926 Hardin it's a special exception to lease remote parking and if the applicants here they can come forward chairman chairman I need to I think we've got a question we'll pause a minute until things quiet down a little bit I think we can proceed if you'd like to state your name Anthony Calgoni can you get just a little closer to the microphone Anthony? So my name is Anthony Calgoni I've been a business owner in Columbia 5 points VISTA for over 10 years a lot of fitness things I either directly own or have business partners who own Quartz Bar, Forest Drive CrossFit Bikram Yoga Columbia, Orange Theory Fitness we do a lot to positively impact our community we work closely with Heroes in Blue here for ALS, Camp Mates for Kids so that's just a little bit about Forest Drive CrossFit opened two years ago on Forest Drive that's the namesake it's a pretty small building we have now it's only about 1700 square feet it's not big enough for what we want to do sometimes we're even forced to go outside to do some things that we would rather do inside tying this in I actually used to hold the lease at the spacing question 902 Hardin Street I'm guessing it was 7 or 8 years ago several years ago I also own a company called Carolina Mattress and I originally signed that lease with the intent of operating Carolina Mattress there the first day that I was there we backed a truck a semi that was unloading and a gentleman who I believe was the property owner came out and said you don't have the rights to be back here this is you can't do this I immediately went back to the broker and sure enough the gentleman was correct we had no right to anything outside of our building so in light of that I went up separating myself from that situation my old business partner was there until last month and unfortunately he went out of business I don't have much contact with him but apparently I think these people would agree that he didn't do the best job of making sure he didn't affect the people around him so in the circle the gentleman that holds the lease at that space now he has a lot of very high traffic retail properties smart phone medic type places repairing iPhones watches stationery just all kinds of things that will bring in lots of traffic and so now that he's been forced to take over that's the business that he would have to put in there that's what he knows but there's a very real parking problem there we would be grandfathered in mercantile business that went in there but that would very adversely affect these guys, the businesses around them so he called me and asked if I had any ideas and I said well actually our gym we could use some more space we primarily operate outside of business hours in fact even the application I believe I put in 5 to 9 in the morning and then 5 to 8pm but in light of seeing that some of these businesses actually open at 8am our business plan will actually switch to excuse me so you actually closed down after your morning classes so currently we have a 12 so yes then we do a 12pm class and a 4pm class if we are able to get into this building we will lose those classes we will only operate 5, 6 and 7am classes and 5, 6, 7pm classes so that's the business model that we would like to go to and you all would be willing to accept that as a stipulation? Absolutely we would only offer classes those 6 times we would ask for an exemption on weekends we do a 9am class currently and we do a lot of fundraiser type thing marathons with the aforementioned groups so it would be nice to have Saturday, Sunday availability to do those as well but if that were a big concern for the opposition I would be willing to entertain that so when I spoke with the lease holder here I told them that was my idea I thought it would alleviate the parking issue because most of our people will be there outside of business hours we found that over 80% of our clientele now we thought were coming from Forest Acres they are actually coming from Shandon 5 points, several students so they were pretty excited about the idea that they could bike, they could run this is what our clientele does we are bikers, we are runners we're healthy. Understood so can I get you to run through the criteria for the special exception just so we can kind of just going through Describe what way with the special exception not have a substantial adverse impact on vehicular traffic or vehicular and pedestrian traffic adequate provisions are made in the proposed exemption for parking and for loading and unloading we have made an agreement to lease the required 10 spaces I actually see 12 but I think some people see 10, either way there's enough to be granted the special exception I don't actually think that we will need that I haven't signed a lease on either 902 Harden Street or 926 yet, I wanted to make sure we got approved first but the lease that we have for the 10 parking spaces right now it says 9 months just to get us through the end of this year it's my understanding that I will have to reapply for a business license and prove that I have parking in order to get a business license next year it's also my understanding that if we lose that parking for any reason we will then have to come and apply for a variance not a special exception is that correct or am I assuming correctly with those okay would you like me to continue with number 2 describing what ways to propose special exception will not have substantial adverse impact on adjoining properties in terms of environmental factors such as noise, lights, glare, vibration, fumes odors, destruction of air or light and litter the only thing I could see that would fall in there is music, we like to have music when we work out I think most people do but we're a community based organization that's what we are, that's what all of my businesses are so we pride ourselves in positively impacting the environment there's nothing adverse about any of the businesses that I have and this will be no different in fact this will be a particularly positive impact on the community especially even the neighbors around us we found that when we were talking about this location with our members many of them already used these surfaces including me, I take my dogs to her his mother-in-law goes to city yoga so that's my answer number 2 number 3 describing what ways to propose special exception will not have a substantial adverse impact on the aesthetic character of the area to include a view of the orientation and spacing of the buildings the building is pretty old in my opinion it's kind of an eyesore, these guys have done a nice job of building the area around it it's my understanding that the owner of this particular building is kind of holding out probably a library but I feel like she should just sell it to these guys and let them do what they want but they won't and I think that's part of the issue here in any case I don't know what we're able to do what we did at Forest Drive CrossFit we only have 2 parking spaces assigned to us and there's crazy issues with parking if you guys know where the city is there are always parking issues fortunately because of the hours we operate we're not a part of that problem but that is also an older building that we can't really do much with there's been some opposition to that so we just went to our neighbors and said hey guys do you mind if we put some plants up and make it look a little bit more inviting here it's kind of a run down place and so I would offer the same thing to my neighbors I would say hey guys is there anything we can do to make this look better we can't do it in 5 points without structurally changing the building because I won't have the ability to do that number 4 describe the ways in which the proposed special exception will not have an adverse impact on public safety or create nuisance conditions detrimental let's say detrimental to I think that's a typo the public interest or conditions likely result in increased law enforcement response we're actually trying to do the opposite I was actually in the bar game down in 5 points several years ago and I'm way beyond that and I like the fact that there are new businesses popping up that are trying to give people alternative reasons to come down to 5 points like some of the businesses you guys have over here so we're going to try and give students, young professionals different things to do early morning, late night let's work out, let's be healthy, let's not drink well said that's my answer number 5 explain how the establishment of the proposed special exception does not create a concentration or proliferation of the same or similar types of special exception use which concentration may be detrimental to the development or redevelopment of the area in which the special exception use is proposed to be developed I don't even know if I understood that completely but basically because of the hours that we operate it's going to minimize the concentration of that exception I think that kind of is enough said there number 6 explain how the proposed special exception is consistent with the character and intent of the underlying district as indicated in the zoning district description with any applicable zoning overlaid district goals and requirements um I've listed here that kind of what I touched on 5 points appears to be moving away from cheap bars and underage drinking see a lot of that in the newspaper I see a lot of it on Facebook um the addition of pure bar and city yoga down there there's similar types of businesses to ours but they mainly cater to females um we're males and females and I think it's going to fit in with what they're trying to do just add a little bit different clientele than what those clientele are doing down there so we would intend to enhance the district goals that are already in place there hey number 7 describe describe how the proposed special exception is appropriate for its location and compatible with the permitted uses adjacent to and vicinity of the property here's the same answer I just gave we've got very similar values as a lot of the new businesses that are going on down there especially considering that a lot of our patrons already frequently establishments that are directly around us city yoga, your bombshell um that we that's a kind of a staple for crossfitters so that's my answer for number 7 number 8 explain in what ways the proposed special exception will not adversely affect the public interest we're going to provide a healthy option in 5 points for people to do things other than to drink which has been a very hot topic lately we want to create marathons we want to support our neighbors our businesses everything that we do is going to be community oriented if for no other reason next year or the year after or whenever if we lose parking I need these guys to stand next to me and say hey board please allow these guys to be here give them a variance next time because they've done what they said they would do and I understand they would be skeptical now because of what has happened to them in the past but um argument is that we're providing that the minimum impact that that building could provide on the neighboring community any questions from that board um so what do you call your classes are you calling group fitness classes or what do we call the what you refer to as your classes they're hour long and they go 5, 6 and 7 they're usually 40 to 45 minutes or so there's usually 15 minutes of strength in a 15 minute workout so generally 40 minutes or so do you call that like a group fitness class or what do you call it it's the what they call it the workout of the day so WOD is the acronym they use there um and most CrossFit that's pretty standard in how they run those it's uh it's an affiliate it's not exactly a franchise but it's an affiliate okay what other questions do you guys have thank you very much is there anyone else here to speak in favor or against this application Nancy Alano and I own this veterinary clinic which is right next door at 900 Hardin and I own everything up into that building I have three places in front I've been back which is not a lot to run a business I've owned the clinic since 1995 I make my employees park in the public parking so that we can leave all the spots for our clientele I went through the cell phone and the furniture store where they kept parking in my parking lot and no matter how much I called how much I asked them how many signs I put in I was always having to stop doing my business to come out and deal with that so I like Tony I don't have anything against his business but I work out a lot my class at 5am in the morning is 30 people large my business starts at 8 o'clock if you know the veterinary business it is really busy in the morning to work so the majority of my business is probably from 8 until 9 and 90% of the time I get there at 8 somebody is waiting at the door for me and then we're really busy from 4 until 5.30 when we close so that's going to cause a big problem I see for me and the other thing is a lot of my job is listening so when you're having music next door I can't ascult heart murmurs and stuff like that I'm going to have to move to the interior buildings dogs don't like traffic they don't like loud noises especially cats so that will impact my business also nobody asked me before they put the sign up and that's how I found out about this business is your property the residential structure to the white residential structure on the corner is that right? gentleman my name is Brad Collins I'm a professor at the university and co-owner with my wife of city yoga we are here to speak against this variance we have been a tenant we are a tenant diagonally behind a very large facility diagonally behind this site we have been a tenant there for 10 years and as Mr. Thompson can tell you we have heavily invested in this property in the renovations of this property and in the upkeep of this property we have about 40 classes per week beginning early in the morning running until our latest is about 7 30 p.m we operate that 7 days a week 40 classes we service about 400 clients per week and those clients depend on ample parking now for the most part the parking is quite ample but there are certain times during the week especially in mid-week especially in the late afternoon and the early evening when the parking lot is pretty much full and some of our students are required to find street parking as Mr. Kamoni said these are also going to be times busy times as well 5, 6 and 7 and as his application states what he's providing and what he's promising is remote parking that's a serious problem now many of his clients I'm sure will observe that and they will park 237 feet away and walk to his studio but common sense tells us that many of his clients will not park remotely if there is a parking spot available behind his building they will use it quite frankly for our busy times this is going to create a very, very serious problem Mr. Kamoni has said is the parking designated does it say parking for say yoga only it does not we share the parking with several other businesses there, Bombshell there's a frame shop there there is also Polia Morris Polia Morris is there or sister facility of ours called Upstream so there are several businesses that we share this space with and quite comfortably and quite amply but again we don't have infinite parking back there Mr. Kamoni has tried to make you believe and perhaps he does believe that this will be a minimum impact this will create a minimum impact on the neighboring businesses this will create nonsense that is going to create a very serious problem for us he's described it as a his own problem as a very real parking problem well the very real parking problem is going to be our problem and it will seriously hurt our business and we urge you to reject this plan not only is unreasonable but unworkable thank you very much for your time anyone else good afternoon I am the owner of the property that is immediately adjacent to the north and east of the subject property at 902 Hardin this is a complex of five buildings and over 20,000 feet that we have invested in quite heavily I'm here to speak in opposition to this special exception and that objection is primarily driven by this change of use the change in use is the very thing that's driving this need for the special exception we need to be clear here that the building itself at 902 Hardin street occupies 100% of the landmass so there is zero parking it's not as if he's asking for some relief or supplemental parking there is no parking so no use basically nothing no use that requires any parking could park there without any type of arrangement for offsite parking right not as far as I'm concerned any existing use or use that is consistent with the existing zoning or the use that was in place until now is permissible those types of uses have dynamic parking modes in that people come and go they shop very quickly they move on the very nature of this applicant's business is for classes classes where people stay for an hour staying in large numbers let me just put the pause button for a second I have a question for staff so there is zero parking here is this zoning of this facility allow any use that doesn't require how it works is there is an existing conditions section of the ordinance to where if it was a use that requires 3 per 1000 they wouldn't have to provide any parking it would be what they could provide on the site which in this case would be nothing but because this is a use that requires 5 per 1000 that is why we are here today they are responsible to how large is the building according to the application they are leasing 2500 square feet but the building is 6000 square feet but the actual gym use is only going to be 2500 they are going to be limited to that for their application what about the rest of the building can it be leased to anyone that needs only 3 per 1000 existing conditions would come in at that point yes or if another use came in for that portion gotcha thank you very much I think the size of the building is very relevant in this discussion there is virtually no way to police how much space the actual occupies 6000 feet he said by his own admission that he occupies 1700 now and that is not nearly enough so I think he has reversed engineered this whole parking program he found 10 spaces he backs into the number of how much square feet he can occupy and the lease that he has that is unexecuted on the remote parking does have a 30 day cancellation provision it has been sold to a California concern for redevelopment and it is only a matter of time before it is redeveloped I want to reserve some time though for my attorney he can speak separately it is okay I want to point out Charlie made a good point about the lease it is unusual in that it has a 30 day cancellation right in favor of the landlord that is pretty dog on unusual that means we have a 30 day lease potential enforcement problem we might have the resources I understand what you are saying but there are lots of parking there on 30 day most of the parking garages are 30 day months my parking lot is 30 days I have been there for 10 years but it counts on you to renew it in most circumstances the landlord can revoke my term on 30 days notice actually I have been there for 25 years noted as far as this proliferating the special exception uses that we have when we absorb the parking at 926 Hardin street it is going to be non compliant it will need off street it will need some additional parking to be drawn from somewhere offsite this creates a domino effect which ultimately will come home to roost one day with some we have this tangled web of offsite parking arrangements there is also a public safety component here too in that I am a former CrossFit person I have engaged in this group I respect it I think they do good things but I am afraid this isn't the right place given what they do there is often an outdoor component to these workouts I can invite you to look at the Forest Drive Facebook website there is simply no common area available for these folks to perform their outdoor work components so where is that going to occur well I think there are only two options one it is going to occur on the sidewalk that is dangerous we have people out there shopping they don't need to have somebody plow them over with a kettle bell in their hand or hopefully but probably more realistically they are going to take over the back parking area which is my client's property my client then is forced to confront patrons of the business the tenant called law enforcement that is a drag on the resources of the city this becomes very difficult you know the intent here is not to be obstructed it is just that the proposed views and the means for accomplishing it are going to create problems that are foreseeable and I think one of the primary objectives of zoning and zoning regulation is to avoid those things to avoid the conflicts on the front end I kind of agree with you there but you know the property right now has zero parking spaces and yet a person requiring 18 parking spaces could go right in excuse me a person a business that can actually require 18 parking spaces for that matter could go into this building without the need for a special exception and outright and use it so I'm not sure how you know a situation where you've got a different use that actually has offsite parking is necessarily I think that could be conceived as trying to solve a problem because clearly a building this size with zero parking is an issue well I think it's the intermittent use of the patrons that will come there that creates the problem for example if that were used for an office space well it wouldn't be unreasonable for employees of the business to park up they leave their car there all day they walk back and forth once a day twice a day here there's going to be a great opportunity for folks to park in unauthorized places the thought process we've probably all done it no harm no foul I'll just be in and out well if you have the existing patrons of the lawfully parked people on the heritage investment property coming in at similar times and then a same number of folks coming in to do crossfit workouts that's going to impact those businesses that are doing things the right way the property owner is inviting those businesses to be fruitful and to be good members of five points it's just going to create a hardship that they're going to be very hard pressed to ever come I appreciate the opportunity to speak I was asking you questions is there any other statements that you wanted to make or points that you wanted to make that's it from the moment unless there's some reason for us to respond is there anyone else Charlie you want to come back and say your three minutes I neglected to mention that the applicant has not contacted me in any respect to voice circumstances of this application the first I learned of it was actually seeing the zoning sign posted on the building we've created a very special place that we call Village Five this complex of five buildings and quite frankly there were many people in the real estate industry that thought I was absolutely crazy to do what I do and it only works if it stays in balance it's a ballet we have received a variance for parking for a mixture of uses and that's how that variance was afforded to us and so it's this careful selection of different uses of the different buildings within the complex that allows this ballet to take place and this particular use that is before you today will throw this out of balance and cause it to wobble and so my tenants who are heavily invested for long term end up having to move out because they can't tolerate it anymore only to find that the short term applicant gets his way and then maybe he goes away and then we've got neither the long term or the short term and I just would encourage you to think about the dynamics at play here and the fact that we're sort of centurions in this neighborhood and it can be pretty rough there and everything's peaceful we don't have it littered with no trespassing or no parking or no this and no that everything works, it's an oasis and five points and all of my tenants are deeply concerned about this application I have to agree, I understand what your concerns are my thinking on this is and if this were going to be approved it would be stipulated that that he would have to have the offsite parking so if he loses his lease for offsite parking he would have to be he would have to find 15 more spaces somewhere remotely to get in order to do that I mean we can make it stipulated on the fact that he has to have 15 spaces of offsite parking 19 or whatever it is of offsite parking and if he loses his offsite parking then basically the special exception is void so I don't know I understand what your concerns are but from five to eight and that's to me it's going to have very little maybe a little bit with you but I don't know that it's going to have a huge impact on everybody I mean you don't have any parking either doesn't look like there but here's the building what if somebody comes in that have 18 parking spaces all the time from five to six I mean you're going to wish you had this back I mean it's a great use for you know a short period of time in the morning short period of time in the afternoon but I understand I mean it's a tough one because I mean that building has no parking whatsoever city yoga does have parking we have a total of 55 spaces there and nearly 20,000 feet of leasable area so we reserve the right to sign parking on a prerated basis and my lease with city yoga requires that I provide a certain number of spaces that are consistent with this prerated share of the spaces right and then y'all you said you got some variances for certain uses you know the variance for the parking variance for the parking I mean because of the what was the variance for total number of spaces for leasable area for leasable area so what we're doing is we're inserting a use that's to obtain a special exception for parking immediately adjacent to one that has already received the variance for parking the applicant by his own admission the parking is tight and so the question is will the business be able to in that early morning use the public parking that's available by five points and the all site parking that's got available without encroaching on y'all's property and I think that that's handled by signage you have signage on your parking now that says who can park there and towing enforcement all that that's shifting the enforcement burden over to me and the zoning do you have a contract with a towing company that comes in tows cars that aren't part of that when my tenants pull into park in the morning these spaces are going to be occupied by the applicant's patrons look he's going to have 10 spaces that means 10 people that classes are considerably more than 10 people at a time there's no way he can make business at 10 he knows this is premeditated violation of parking this is just to get through the requirements well I mean those are the requirements they're right he's only required to provide 10 spaces that's all he's required to provide because he intends or is stating that he's only going to occupy a corresponding amount of square footage which is roughly one third of the building we do have the other issue of trespass as attorney Lee has indicated there is an outdoor component to every crossfit location that is around and how are we going to stop that from being in the parking lot so the only remedy I have for trespass is to call the police you can imagine what this life is like or someone pulls in and I say look you can't I'm going to stand out there and say I'm going to tow you and imagine the conflict that comes from that somebody is in a hurry is a bodybuilder who's going into an exercise facility it's not going to be pretty or fun we don't have this problem with retail it is particular to this use and it's a adjacent it's immediate adjacency to another use that also has these peak times for classes and that's what the city does thank you Charlie would you like to come back up with a study I just wanted to address some of the concerns first of all I didn't make it clear our business model is predicated upon a 10 person per class max that is what makes us different than all the other crossfits out there I hope that makes you guys feel a little bit easier about things is that in their worst case scenario where people are breaking the law and parking in places they shouldn't be running runs if nobody bikes if they all drive and that's something that we intend to keep 10 class max that's what we do the 2,500 square feet is actually a little bit less than that this was based on the lease that was shown to me by the lease holder that is the retail the front part of that you can see it's kind of split into two it's a little under 2,500 square feet that is heated and cooled as HVAC the back is like a warehouse it's crazy hot in the summers crazy cool in the winters I think anybody would ever want to work out there that's why we are not leasing that part of the space and the same deal with the outside they brought up a point that I made before they got up there is that our space is so small now that we're forced to operate outside sometimes I don't think it's very safe to operate outside other than jogging like you said throwing kettlebells around the reason we want the space is so that we can do everything inside and so it seems like the only issue that they have is that our clientele might not follow the law they might break the law and they mentioned having to call law enforcement and I know that could be a pain but I like to think that most of what we do is based on the fact that people will actually follow the law especially when we're the ones running our clients or responsible for them that's all I wanted to say there are no more questions so so 10 people per class max so are you willing to have that as a stipulation sure in your quest that you only have 10 people per class absolutely and further that you only have the 3 classes 5, 6 and 7 45 minute classes in the morning and 6, 7 and 8 45 minute classes in the afternoon correct they're 40 to 55 and I want to lock myself into 46 minutes and I'm not going to be kicked out but they're designed for about 45 minutes there are no classes that are designed for more than 55 what about the concerns of trespass and common area and things like that trespassing as far as like working out in their parking lot that's not going to happen I'm willing to sign something that says anything that touched their parking lot they can take it to their property if somebody throws a barbell out there it's theirs it's not this extra space it's so that we can do everything inside a big reason why we do 10 people per class is that CrossFit has a very bad reputation of people getting hurt there's one locally it's one of the largest ones in South Carolina people get hurt every week because they pack 25 35 people in a class you can't see them you got people outside you can't watch them we need people right where we can see them they get one on one instruction and 10 is a max we're working outside other than a jog if that's part of the WOD there is a fairly substantial public park blocking a half from that location Mark I'm sorry Martin Luther King Park it's right there blocking a half down for billion that would be available sure but we don't intend to do anything outdoors especially considering if we're granted we would be moving in sometime in the summer August even September it's not safe to be doing something that intense in heat like that needs to be a controlled ambient environment okay is there any other questions thank you for your testimony would you like to come back up sir there's one thing I would be hopeful that the applicant could clarify because there's a lot of focus on the class times what I think we're missing here is that most crossfit locations I know of you have people that come at all times frequently to do their own workouts the workouts are posted the workout wise as he calls them workout of the day you can go on the crossfit website and you'll see the daily workout yesterday included a 400 meter run which I wonder where that's going to occur but focus on the classes I think misses the issue here because there's going to be continual use as people come there may be groups of folks that have decided just to work out together on a regular basis focus on the class really does a disservice to the consideration of the potential problem that we may face here I just want to clarify that thank you very much very good point would you like to come back up one more time staff I do have to say this is a permitted this is not a special exception just to parking parking and I also am willing I need good neighbors we can't do what we want to do and have these people believe we don't want everybody's best interest at hand I'm willing to concede that we will not have more than 10 people also for an open gym session or whatever would happen what he's referring to we don't have this at our current space now we don't do any open gyms so it's just closed when it's closed if we're only running these classes before and after normal business hours I do want the right to have other people come in especially since I have 10 parking spaces for those 10 but I will concede that we'll cap it at 10 for anything other than class times as well so we don't want to slide in on a loophole and all of a sudden you've got 30 people in there I want to make sure I just tell you so I thought that this was the hours of operation were like first thing in the morning and right after work it's not open all day there are classes 5 to 8 and classes 5 to 8 again I'd like to reserve the right to have people do an open gym or come in throughout the day to at least access the space I mean I know I will I'm actually going I think that gets back into if no one's there to monitor that how do you know if you're going to have 10 people or 30 people there if you're not there well there's never going to be somebody there that's not an owner or managing partner of the space like not going to be people with keys that can just go in and work out when they want to since there's nothing outside they would have to access inside but it's going to be open all day it's basically it's going to be open from 5 a.m. to what was the end time 6 7 no I mean right now Mark is the only coach that we have he coaches he goes back takes care as a kid back coaches does something on the side he's not going to be there from 4 30 in the morning till at night every day nonstop I just don't want to pitch a pigeon holds us not into being able to not even use it at all during those time do you have the do you have the parking is leased throughout the entire day yes the parking is ours nonstop so I guess my only comment would be it this is a good business it's very well thought out clearly I mean you know what you're doing but please don't take this question any wrong way at all but it does seem to me like it's a little force for this location have you looked at other spaces or is this one particularly attractive to you you know what I guess I'm just curious why go to all this trouble to go here I mean is this your only option or just seems to me like there could be a better place for this business how about mine street how about the Zaxby no seriously seriously and I don't mean that in any way I know you know what you're doing what is the question for us it is the perfect location when I found that it came open we have been looking for spaces like this especially in the forest acres area since a lot was damaged in the flood a couple years ago so some of these warehouse type places this building has high ceilings which is very good for pull ups muscle ups that's one of the issues we have now we got a tight space and there aren't really high ceilings so we can't even do a lot of the movements that other CrossFit gyms can because this building has higher ceilings than we do it is a freestanding building so if we were to drop weights if we were to play some music it's not going to affect tenants like it would in a strip mall right now we're in that strip mall we can't really play music very loud the programming is really tough because our neighbors are only not there on Mondays so we drop weights on Mondays the rest of the week we do things that don't make a lot of noise and I was just familiar with the space so when it came open at about half of market rent less than much less than what we're paying now that made it even more attractive so I certainly understand your question I hope that answers it I guess you just brought up I am concerned about your effect on your adjacent veterinarian neighbor with the music that really kind of concerns me well I would say we are going to be indoors and it's adjacent but it's not connected this is free standing and there certainly is a difference there I know that we could certainly have some sort of negative impact if we play loud, loud music but that's not the intent I think that is real concerning I hear you would that fall more into the the issue of the type of business that's there and not just the parking area maybe say maybe say maybe not well Gene can answer that but in the application you said that there would be no more than five people inside before 9 a.m. and after 5 p.m. and I just again I just know your cost website what was I'm sorry let me get the application number one on page two of three in the special exception application and so my concern is that doesn't job with what you're saying the only times we have more than five people inside is before 8 a.m. and after 5 p.m. that's exactly what I've said I'm going to make sure I'm not having a little dyslexia so after 9 a.m. between 9 a.m. and 5 p.m. there will be no more than five people inside that building there haven't been with our current business plan that's what you're saying so there will not be any more than five people inside the building between 9 a.m. and 5 p.m. correct sure we had discussed 10 previously but it looks like it should be five then I'm willing to concede to five we're not going to have classes there I just want to reserve the right for people that need extra help or want to do extra stretching to be able to come in with him but who's going to be there to prevent more than five people maybe I've just got a misunderstanding about how the business works the doors are locked so the doors only open when we have class right now if you want it open during the day do people call the train I mean how does that work he does separate training separate stretching things for money on the side it would be by appointment only it wouldn't be a standing like hey the doors are unlocked you guys come he will have a key I will have a key and as of now nobody else will have a key this business will be closed from eight until five but I say that I don't want to be kicked out if he meets with somebody one-on-one or if we have less than five people doing something that's all I'm trying to where the other locations the other CrossFit locations or there is one off of Bluff Road those aren't those aren't yours no no no these are affiliates so we only have one of the CrossFit this is the only one we have that's where? Forest Drive CrossFit right on Forest Drive next to Jimmy John's across from Strober and Groucho's so I wouldn't he be having people going there during the day we've got more you don't have such an issue with parking we just don't really need it right now we have our 12 o'clock and our 4 o'clock classes we usually have two to five people I think those people would be willing to either go to the morning or later classes or come throughout the day groups of five or less which they're already doing maybe for those people that would be at 12 but that's when they're coming but again I'm willing to have that as part of the stipulation that I'm not trying to to get around this whole thing I'm not trying to be sneaky here I mean there are classes I want people to be able to come in during the day but only when the trainer is there it's not going to be open during the day and there aren't going to be classes during the day okay I'm um gotta wrap it up so is there any any board discussion really torn on this one I think I think you know what you're doing I think you've got a very good business plan and a good business and I'm afraid my biggest concern is something we can't even vote on today anyway I don't think it I don't think this is a good fit for this particular building I really don't I don't like how close the veterinarian's office is to it and the future plans of the center to the north so I really don't think it's a good fit but I don't think we can vote on that so I think my biggest concern is something you know that we can't even vote on so we're left with do we allow the special exception to or you know doesn't meet the criteria to allow the special exception to lease the offsite parking so with that being said I'm not sure that I can justify reason why it doesn't I don't understand all of your concerns because I have the same concerns especially with the veterinarian's office I would just like to reiterate if there's any way and I know people want to work out the music but any way you can keep the music down if you are granted this special exception would be very much appreciated because I can understand how that's really a concern while you can control the volume of the music the weight that's kind of a concern for me too if you that kind of sudden sound could very well affect something that they're doing next door it does sound like you have a thought out it does sound like you have a good business plan but I really might not be the best fit for that particular location that's not what we're here to exactly we really can't I'm excited to work with those guys on making those I'd like to throw out a motion I'm going to make a motion that we approve this request for a special exception based on the testimony of the applicant and the written application with the following stipulations that on Monday through Friday they will have only six group classes three group classes in the morning from 5am 6am and 7am 45 minutes in duration each and three in the evenings 6pm 7pm and 8pm 45 minutes each and that the applicant maintains 10 that each class will be limited to 10 persons per class that was actually 5, 6 and 7 it was 5 to 8 I'm sorry 5, 6 and 7 and what and 5, 6 and 7 so 5 to 8 5 to 8 both times okay I'm sorry so 5 at 5 5, 6 and 7 5, 6 and 7 both times in the morning then customers or clients in each class and that the applicant will maintain control of 10 offsite parking spaces in the general vicinity of the business at all times it's my motion there's a motion made there's not been a second does anybody else like to make a motion can somebody either a second my motion or please make another motion we don't have to stay here all day this is for 902 and 926 Hardin street case number 2018-0032 special exception to deny the special exception running through the criteria I think that this will have an adverse impact on vehicular and pedestrian safety there are enough safeguards from the applicant to prevent that public safety and nuisance conditions it just ties in with number one with the public safety with the potential to have not only people outside but other property owners in a position where they've got a potentially where it sounds like in the past they've had to confront people on their property, on private property I just don't think it's compatible not appropriate for this location what the permitted use is adjacent to and then the vicinity of the property and I guess I should have spoke up more I don't think it does impact the public as motion to deny, is there a second have a motion and a second all in favor say aye all opposed no motion carries for no other matters to discuss thank you Rachel I make a motion that we adjourn all in favor all opposed motion carries