 What's going on guys, we are back with a very special episode of the after hours podcast today We have Xander who is I think the youngest MIC member if not top two of the youngest But yeah something crazy like that, but he's been with us for about four months And he is just starting his trading journey really so Xander if you want to take it away and kind of introduce yourself and let Us know how long you've been trading and how you found us Awesome. Yeah, so Fun fact I got started way back in like 2017, and I was actually 13 years old Trade and yeah, the way I found out about trading is just the Robin Hood app in general And so I basically downloaded it and I funded it with 10 bucks and after just like messing around with it I started getting ads from Tim Sykes. Yeah, and so I looked into his YouTube channel And I mean, I just it grew from there and I I did educate myself about it But I didn't really dive into it when I was 13 because you know, we have like a short Interest span. Yeah, I went on to something else So the pattern was that I would literally just get back into trading for a month every year And so I kind of just went off and on But really until I think it was 2020 I I got I was like, you know what I gotta get into this because I'm getting near the end of high school I think I was in like a junior year And so what I did was, you know, I started really focusing on it. I got deeper I learned more from like Tim's students like Jack Kellogg of Matthew Monaco and stuff and that was really helpful And I was trading OTCs But I decided to go to MIC Because OTCs Did not have like a process and what I heard from MIC Was that there was, you know, that you guys had a defined process And I really liked that because in OTCs I was really struggling with like trying to find how I was gonna trade and stuff like that and So yeah, that's why I want to join MIC because I knew if I had joined there would be like a defined process that I could follow But I did find MIC. Was it Twitter or was it like Instagram? Yeah, it was actually the Beyond the PT podcast Oh shit From both you and Harry's podcast on there I was like you could hear like the passion of MIC in your voice and so I was like, wow This sounds like really really awesome and I was like disciplined to sticking to OTCs I'm like, you know what I'm not gonna switch, but then I was like, you know what I got to try them on just because it sounds so good Which I'm so glad I did but Kind of going back a tiny bit. I got full-time into trading like full-time meaning, you know like Every free second of my day. I'm studying and trading and stuff like that that started in February 2021 and So that's when I started there and then I got into MIC about three to four months ago and you know, it's been it's been awesome so far That's awesome, man. That's cool And so you've been now during that time when you were 13 Or even up until like when you recently just got into it How many trades you think you were taking or if any or you just kind of like had that interest Didn't know what to do yet. Just kind of like dipping your toes kind of thing, right? I mean, I probably just made a couple of trades I think I went way back and I think like my first trade was on drives or something like that And tops like the shippers when they were But I don't know like it was yesterday. Yeah, I was just like buying and selling Um, but then in like 2020 I really got into it and I learned like like, you know all I learned everything about it So I was really educated on it And so when I came back into it on in 2021 like throughout throughout all my high school I knew that I wanted to become a trader I just was not disciplined enough to study and stick to it I got into gaming and like other stuff like that and I actually I was trying to go pro and In gaming and I I worked like 10 hours plus a day But I was just literally seeing zero progress and so I was like thinking I knew like if I had put that much time in the trading I would have seen progress but in gaming I didn't see any progress and so it's like, you know what I've got to dedicate this much time in the trading and I'm gonna see huge Huge growth compared to gaming. Yeah, and I with the The gaming side because like I've talked to a lot of people like this like one of my friends Brian Lee he was He was a professional gamer at one point You know even Jack Kellogg like Jack loves to game like me and Jack like Jack at one point was like my tab Like me and Jack go way back where like, you know I remember when Jack was like living with like Dom and like me Dom and Jack would talk every day and like Yeah, they were like trying to get into listed longs and like I was like, okay Like maybe I can like learn about some OTC trades. So we kind of like traded off like that And obviously like Jack super successful OTC trader Obviously, I'm kind of a successful NASDAQ long and we ended up kind of like just kind of saying like, okay Like here's good at longing. He's like, you know, Jack's good at OTCs or whatever But like those are also guys who like, you know really enjoy that kind of like You know gaming I know a ton like I've heard of a ton of traders who have like, you know They they wanted to go pro with gaming or like they were like involved in gaming and then they kind of Like kind of moved on towards trading. So I think that's kind of cool how like you know, you kind of Said okay, obviously I you know, you don't see progress through gaming or I mean, maybe, you know Maybe you cut up like I'm not really sure like, you know, I don't know You never know on these types of like situations, but You know, I guess like that kind of brings me to another point. So like you kind of you started through gaming and then you got into trading And then you kind of like learned that MIC was kind of like a repeatable process and stuff like that What what do you think what setups have kind of like helped you kind of like along the way like during your journey was Are there any like key things that stand out that kind of have like kind of brought you like To consistency or like maybe like you're close to consistency or any stuff like that Yeah, so I do have something to talk about so Um, I was you know, the first month of MIC I was just learning all the content stuff and I was actually longing Uh, but I quickly switched to shorting. Um, but what I what I decided to start on was death candles And as you know, they have like not been working the last two months very well And I was just you know, I was just getting trapped and trapped and trapped And so I reached out to after hours and I have like a whole youtube video on this Where I just talk about like the advice that you all gave me where I was shorting the bottom of the range because you know death candles They they death count through view up you short it You're somewhat like in the middle to bottom of the range and so you're just getting trapped back to the top And so the best advice I got was to short the the top of the range and first resistance and stuff Um, and so probably the first resistance and just line to line was the best advice I got from MIC and just the best kind of general setup to just go line to line and not short the bottom of the range It's kind of crazy to me how much the market has changed like even since I started like even just hearing you talk about it because like even death candles man like Dude when I first started trading if you saw a death candle like It was like an auto short It was literally like if you saw a death candle like I really wouldn't even wait for a pop I would just get in and like start shorting And I remember me and Tosh used to trade on the phone together and he'd be like just keep shorting until you get half the death Candle that's your risk kind of thing and it never failed And I remember when you messaged me and you're like dude like Every time there's a death candle I short and in this market it just gets reclaimed or it goes back to the top or like You know, I mean, I think death candles now are like over overused. I think at this point It's like you need that massive candle that like wrecks the entire point or else it's nothing I mean, I've seen death candles that like look like hey, it's a little higher volume than the rest They get swooped up like it's nothing. Yeah, so that's so that's tough. So how have you kind of approached? I guess Trading lately, you know, like are you how are you progressing size wise? You know, what kind of level of success are you finding and I guess what are your biggest like struggles at this point Yeah, so this is what I really was excited to talk about Like one of my biggest struggles in trading has just been like finding a setup that's right for me Because I know once I find the setup that I work well with I'm just gonna just run with it And I want to do really well at it just because I'm gonna dissect it like Entry to exit. I want to be able to you know, I want to maximize everything about it But I'm just really struggling finding a setup for me Um, like with each setup, I have like one little thing that I just that just ruins it for me not ruins it But I don't know. I guess I just haven't find the one that I found the one that clicks with me right now I'm actually trying to learn all day fades just because I think it would be good for under pt Um and good rich reward because I really like the rich reward aspect of it. Um But like shorting first resistance and stuff that kind of I don't like that just because a lot of time I do have to scale like three bullets And What gets my mind all messed up is that I'm risking like if all my three bullets got hit and I got sucked out I'm I'm risking let's just say like $50 But if only one of my bullets gets hit and I'm nailing and bailing then it's going to be you know, 10 to maybe $15 gain Now, I know adding to winter is what makes that like really good. Um, and to get you, you know One to one, maybe I'd get that $50 gain if I add it to the winter I guess I just haven't you know been good at adding toners yet or something like that. Yeah, that's kind of struggle and good Yeah, I just want to chime in. I think one thing about the as far as like the death candle getting reclaimed Like one thing that has kind of like helped me as far as a long trader You know as far as like spotting things that are going to reclaim because my job is basic your job is to short the pop after a death candle and my job is to See okay, maybe could could this reclaim and squeeze a ton of you guys out, right? and if you kind of look at You know the way stocks have been trading recently Like these these bigger players in the market like leave the same footprints every time, you know Like we had for instance life like I don't know if you remember life But we would kept keep getting a death candle and keep reclaiming And you if you look at the death candle at the start of the day and then you look at the death candle at the end of the day Both of those are completely identical, right? They they did nothing different. They did, you know, they You know, whoever was rigging or running the stock or whatever I'll go You know, they don't even try and hide that they're going to do it again You know But it's just these people over and over and over again that like see a massive red candle think Oh, the stock is done the stock is done and they slowly slowly slowly turn them out and pop the stock again You know that for me is like it's been, you know Super big edge because the same players are going to leave the same footprint every single time, you know and that's where you can kind of Pick up these kind of little nuances and you can see it before they dump a stock as well, you know maybe, you know a stock has a habit of You know popping 50 cents over high at a and then stuffing and turning it lower, right? You know, so I mean for me, I think as far as the newer market, it's been, you know, adapting to things like that That's really kind of helped me Yeah, for sure I think I think it's tough because like right now obviously the market's changing pretty quickly Like we go from this like kind of slow period to like this and like for zander like I feel like for you like It's tough, right because you want to find the setup that makes you comfortable and we talked about That's what joe is or is that you need to find a setup that no matter what you're comfortable trading and like You know it like the back of your hand like for for me My bread and butter is like in my opinion like a vwap rejection like I think I could do that with my eyes closed. Like I just understand it and I'm comfortable doing it, right? So a lot of that is going to come I feel like for you over time and screen time I'm just like doing these setups and then recognizing like I just don't understand and that's okay Because not every trader is meant to trade the same setups Like when I try to explain like a vwap rejection to someone who does trade all day faders They just their mind doesn't see it that way and that's fine because like I don't see all day faders the same way that bear Tyler, uh, cormelior does either um, I think for you as far as like we've had this conversation with the risk reward aspect like It's true. It's like if you're scaling into your Position to your max size, which I I never recommend I don't scale full size because my problem was as I would scale full size and then my losers would be massive And my winner is like again, it's the same thing, right? You might just hit one bullet and then you got to figure out the rest So for me, like when you're hitting the first resistance kind of trades, that's a lot of art and I think a lot of like Learning sizing which comes over time because it's true. It's like if you just hit those first two bullets Like I learned this from Alex and like trading with Alex like once Alex gets that kind of confirmation to him that The trade is on in that his line worked Then that's when he starts sizing in and he kind of sizes in without fear because he recognizes like this is his confirmation And I think a lot of people struggle with that And I think the thing biggest thing to remember is that when you're scaling multiple lines, especially like if you're using the 30 percent rule Each line to me is just an area of interest to start the trade So like once one gets hit, but if you get that first line gives me the signal that like This is the line that's going to stop. That's usually what I'm saying All right, I'm going to size in now and now set my risk according to this line Whereas I think people get so confused where they size into a line and they keep their original risk And then their risk is all messed up and they think they're only getting one to one But in my opinion once you learn to size into that appropriate line once you get confirmation That's kind of when that when I think the game changes. Austin has a great webinar on sizing into using max size And it's it's a lot of feel at a certain point. There is kind of no science to adding size and It's a lot of art involved in that and I think the science is kind of in scaling But that nuance of learning to to size in is something that just it's weird, but it does come over time Yeah, and I think I just want to mention one thing. I think when you know I think Alex kind of does it similar to me where we have a lot of kind of like internal dialogue Where like we know that if a stock hits, you know, this particular area, we know what it should do and When when when you have that kind of, you know, voice in the back of your head and you're you're talking to yourself and And you know, you're really kind of paying attention and you're like, okay, if this hits, you know 450 it should tank off 450 and if we're supporting, you know 445 430 Then I'm not going to add here. Maybe I'll add a little higher But you know, I'm not going to size into the trade and it it's that kind of self-talk for me At least that you know allows me to kind of maybe add a bit higher or add a bit lower or you know It's doing what I wanted to do But when it's not doing what I wanted to do and I'm like, oh, this should be if I find myself ever fighting a stock or I find myself ever saying to myself You know, all like, you know, if I ever use the words like come on I know that I should probably take the trade off, right? Like, you know, you're maybe you're break even or maybe you're down 10 cents You're like, oh, come on, like you can kind of move up a little bit You know, that's probably a time for me where there was either something wrong with my entry initially Or it's not doing what I want and I should get out But it's just having that kind of self-talk before you enter the trade that makes it when you're in the trade so much easier Because you're not stressing and you're not like, oh, what should this do or what should that do? You kind of have it all planned out like I want to be in a 15 and I want this sucker to tank immediately And if we blow past 15, well, I'm gonna have to stop out or maybe I have a plan to add a little higher or whatever, right? I think you know what helped me out a ton was once I identified My setups like what I knew I wanted to trade. So like I knew I wanted to trade like first resistances I wanted to trade, you know, VWAP rejections or VWAP breakdowns, whatever I used to record my screen like every day and I don't do it anymore And it's something that I actually kind of miss like that was really helpful But I recorded my screen every day and Harry just kind of reminded me exactly what it was But I basically would just record my screens and on the setups that worked for me and that made me the most money I would watch those pretty much over and over again because like Harry said, I knew what they were supposed to do So now when I see a VWAP rejection coming I have this like internal like Memory bank of stocks that have done exactly what I wanted to So if you're going to be getting into all day faders, for example, if you're going to be getting into whatever kind of setup I really recommend recording the screen on any setup that like, you know bear or Tyler or whatever are watching And the ones that they are successful on and the ones they aren't and then you really kind of can That's your big study point and you get to see what is this supposed to do You know, one of the stocks that fade all day or one of those if you want to learn first resistance one of the stocks that hit this resistance and fade What's the difference? And Harry's right like you kind of know immediately now like once you've done this long enough You're like, oh wait this trade is working for me and I know it is because I've seen it a million times like for example, like even today on OP whatever that stupid stock was that was failing, you know, like it just was one of those I've done it a million times. I just short bounces under VWAP on a broken stock I knew exactly what it should do on every bounce. I felt comfortable. I felt like in the driver's seat I never once felt nervous because I know 100 what it's supposed to do There's a giant dog outside and And that just and that just makes it easy that just makes it way easier for me And I think for you, you know, because I think you're an overthinker and it's not a bad thing because a lot of traders are but I think you you curb overthinking by gaining the confidence and seeing the setups over and over again And once you get that the kind of overthinking can subside and you just know you have this like memory of what Things should do Okay, um yeah, I I definitely agree that I'm an overthinker and uh, I think the problem with me that I don't like I don't stick with the setup long enough to learn it is because I'm like so systematized and I don't think I'm loose enough like when I see a setup and I think it's a good setup I don't take it for For some reason just because I I'm scared. I'm missing something that is going to prove me wrong about it So do you guys think I should just if I think a trade is good Should I just take it and then learn from it after like that's what I think I should do Yeah, I think so as well And I think also another thing is that you need to really kind of deeply accept that like, you know You're all your trades are going to come you know from From one particular Let's say, um I don't did you guys freeze on me? I think we're just sitting really still okay. Oh, I I thought that you guys froze on me for a second. Um, I think they're all gonna come from a particular You know form of stock or type of stock, right? You know for me It's going to be those stocks doing really good volume that are churning higher that are over vwap that are kind of Moving really really well, right? That's the brand of stock that I like to trade and what I've gotten good at And when you can get good at a particular brand of stock and maybe you can classify it as Maybe maybe you're better at a low volume ticker or a medium volume ticker or a higher volume ticker like I am And when you start to classify that brand things get a lot easier You're like, okay Well, I'm very familiar with these kind of middle volume stocks that maybe have a big push and then kind of start to fade off, right? um And so it's it's kind of recognizing that type of stock You know, all your all your bigger gains are going to come from one of those core areas And now what you need to do is accept that okay, you know, I'm not going to get the same signal every single day There's going to be different types of signals that are going to trigger me into a trade But you need to trust that the screen time that you've built and the time that you've spent Is worthwhile, right? And maybe, you know It takes a little bit to prove something yourself or maybe it takes a little bit like that You have to kind of deeply accept the kind of uncertainty and you have to develop the type of trust within yourself to kind of say, okay you know Maybe i'm not going to get the same signal or the same holy grail or whatever, but You know, I trust what I've learned and I trust the process So that's going to make it a whole lot easier because I think the problem with a lot of people who want all day faders Is they want this holy grail all day fader system Something that is going to pay them out every single day, you know, I've done this data on excel or whatever But the reality is is that you know, I've seen a ton of people try that And I know maybe one or two that are really really really profitable and there's one of them, right? And you know the thing for bear also that you can argue is like Does bear have an edge through excel or does bear through and have an edge through seeing the same shit over and over and over again Every day and developing, you know, his knowledge of how tickers act and you know, his experience through whatever, right? So, I mean there's that argument that you could make And also I think that you know, everyone's just looking for the holy grail But I don't think there is one, you know, I took let's say five different long trades today And they were all because of different ways, you know, and I can tell you why I took them One was a buy into strength because I thought we could squeeze people out Another was kind of a support buy because I figured that we were holding view app. Well, no, they're all derived from different things But the one thing for me has been that kind of screen time and that recording And I'm also making those trades on a brand of ticker that I know has been paying me out a lot, you know I think I think a lot of people like misunderstand with bear that What makes him good at what he does is that he has a system and It's funny. I've seen bear stray from his system like twice and two of those times are losses And he just sticks to the exact system. Like I kind of know what he did. We talked about it You know, he when he gets his entry because he has his signal His next entry is systematized. There's a reason why he's not just getting in to get in another spot and get bigger He's adding on a specific point for specific reasons So xander for you where I think is going to cause you like trouble on your setups is just that Like harry said, the trust in your system needs to take place And honest to god, I'm a big believer. I always relate trading the sports If you want to get good at shooting free throws, what do you do? You shoot free throws, right? So you start Small with trading and we have the system for we have the process in m. I see that you find your setup And you trade really small right you trade with 10 shares if you want you trade with 100 shares wherever you're at And then what I did was I just had a graduation system of growth So as I saw a setup that was working I knew right away I started trying to long too and I longed with 100 shares and I realized I was losing every time So like right off the bat. I'm realizing wait a second. I can't gain size because I'm not consistent. I'm not green at all So this setup's not for me. But once I found the setup that was for me I just started in really small. I mean, I'm talking, you know, whatever 50 shares or something And then as I found consistency I knew I could size up in it and once you see a setup that works that many times like Your brain just starts to click and you just start to understand like, okay Like I'm confident up and hit this setup like everyone every I get DMs all the time Like how did you know that you that to hit the spot? How did you know to short here? Why did you add here and it's like Because it's like I've seen it work a billion times now and like over time And I think that's where like for you when you're young it's kind of tough too because like I don't know if like the numerical like dollar value is tough too and like it's a lot in your head It's a lot to think about But I really want to see you kind of like dumb it down and just say like this is the setup I'm looking to learn And this is where I'm comfortable and I like this setup because of x y and z and I understand it Like harry said, he knows he knows his playing is playing field. He knows why stocks that are moving prices everything like He has his like matrix And I think you need to kind of work on finding yours and then just slowly growing because we talk a lot right and like and like you You know what you're looking for but I feel like you're you're just like tyler Did I said tyler cornelly or all the time and and he over analyzed every little detail Which is okay But it's time for you to find that setup whether it's all day faders or whatever And kind of zoning on that And kind of set your focus don't worry about what harry's doing what alex is doing whoever Find your setup find your matrix find what makes you comfortable and I think you're going to notice a massive difference Yeah, I agree Should I like because I'm scared I'm going to sacrifice a month on focusing on one setup when I could have You know kind of tried both and found in one month Which one I wanted to pursue like can I like do multiple setups? Like the main one that I have actually been profitable somewhat at is like the view up short like you're talking about Um, but I just I haven't I I don't know why I haven't stuck with it probably I don't know to be honest You think you're just like do you think when you see a view up short you're just nervous because of being burned in the past Yeah, I think I think so like I'm just scared of missing that one key detail but yeah, like I don't know I think it would be fine if I tried all day faders as well as like the view up short Because all day faders haven't been happening that much and so once I finally see a 50 plus dapper I can play it Like I have a system for all day paid So I'm just waiting to have Yeah, sorry, I think this is on down there a little bit I don't think there's anything wrong with like doing both setups As long as you can differentiate them and you don't try to combine them I think that's where a lot of people get into trouble is when they try to like You know, maybe they start in on all day fader and then they try to short the view up rejection Like you need to identify that like This is the setup i'm trading today and this is the setup i'm trading right now. So like I can't mix up the two And I think that's where a lot of people like that try to do multiple setups get kind of screwed up because they They're focused on hitting an all day fader And maybe it didn't work. So they're like, all right. I'm going to change to a view up rejection So it's like as long as you can separate the two in your mind. I don't Personally, I don't see a problem with it. It's just up to you to be able to do that and make sure you're not Over saturated like over you're not overdoing your brain and like you're not screwing yourself up Yeah, and I think one thing for xander right that makes a lot of Oh keep on you can keep on Or maybe there's some lag. I'm not sure I think xander's lagging like a tiny bit All right, well Yeah, I mean I feel like all day faders will be easy to separate like with view up shorts Just because they're pretty much told they're like really different But when i'm trying to combine like the view up short and maybe like high aday short Like those will be, you know, those don't combine well, but you might say like, okay Let me just go one more line up high adays right over here. So yeah, that's that's a good point Go ahead. I I think one thing that you can pay attention is like You know, again, it comes back to the type of brand of ticker you're shorting, you know Is it a hot chick? Is it a lower volume ticker? Is it a broken stock? You know, because I I'm going to tell you nine times out of ten on the broken stocks with You know volume in the pre-market a view app rejection will work You know, but it's that one time where you try and short a hot check that you get burned and all your confidence kind of goes away, you know And you know, I'm probably going to be long that view app reclaim because you know, it's a hot check, right? Yeah, 100% dude. I I think people confuse like I've I've known some guys now who you like trades I'm like massive buff in size and like it's really cool like to talk to them And the only difference between a lot of them and like everyone else Like I'm talking to people who trade like big buck inside like 100,000 200,000 shares or whatever It's just confidence in the setup, right? So it's like we all fight the same demons when it comes to setups We all fight the same problems of like anxiety if it's going to work But what differentiates the play like the real traders from like the newbies is that they know what their setup is going to do And I just really want you for the next like month or so to zone in and focus on what your setup's supposed to do And like like why is it? Do you think that every time you look at one of like thousands or Alex's charts, they look pretty much identical? Right like I've traded with them now for years like three years and like generally their charts look the fucking same Okay, same thing. I say this in all the episodes I know like Harry doesn't have to post to it is if he posts a chart I could tell who it's his because I know the setup he's going to look for and I just I just recognize it So It's the same thing for you in building this level of confidence It's time for you to just build the confidence up because the only difference between guys like fucking Alex and you is just Alex's confidence setup and he's seen it so many times So why would he not throw fucking 30 000 shares at a setup when he's when he knows it's going to pay him out nine times out of 10 right, it's the same thing so That's it's always been your biggest thing and that's that's what I want you to really zone in on in these next couple months Just learn your setups Find the levels that you know what the stock is supposed to do after it reacts from that level Like again the bear bear knows what his stocks should do after it breaches The first support line or the second support line and so on and so forth So there's no surprises anymore You know what you're doing and that that's when you're going to gain the confidence and don't be yourself up duty Also, you're fucking 17 years old. So you've already got a leg up on majority of people in this game and I think it's it's impressive. So you really you shouldn't let it get to you and just you have time man. Don't rush it Yeah Yeah, no problem, man. I think it's like lagging a little bit there. Harry. Can you hear me? Yeah, I can hear you well Where zander? Where are you? Where are you in the u.s? I live in saucornio in the mountains. So That's probably why I wonder if that's what's doing it you're gonna need to put up a fucking Uh tower with those fiber optic Jesus yeah, I mean we're coming up on our time anyways, but is there anything else zander you wanted to ask before we wrap it up He's just peace. Oh, he just he just yo, we've never had someone just peace out on us like this All right, well, I guess we'll cut it off here, but um, you know, yeah, I mean, yeah, whatever fuck it boys peace out You