 And now we move ahead with the last panel for today and the topic for the same is PR and communication management in APAC and India. Examining the trends, the growths and the gaps. Please join me in welcoming a panelist to the screens. Up first, Ms. Jyotsana Dash Nanda D.S. Krup. She is the EVP Corporate Communications. Ms. Kargi Dube, PR Communications Lead, APAC Open Text. Ms. Zairuddin Adil, Founder and Managing Director, Mastered here. Ms. Abhishek Guliani, CEO, Hill and Norton Strategies. And this session will be motivated by Ms. Vamda Dhingra, Founder Director, Lateral Sudra. Hello, everyone. Since we are a little early, let me just quickly tell the team to log in right now. And you can take it from there. Hi, Adil. Long time. In fact, she's logging in. Yeah. Yeah, I know. I know. It was a support to start at 2.45 p.m. So I'll just quickly text. Hello, Ms. Dhingra. Good seeing you. Hello. Hi. Good to see you all. I think Abhishek is the one I presume he's going to join us sometime. So you can start. I'll just text him. Now that we are early, let's utilize the time to our advantage. Yeah, he just called me. He wanted to clarify on the internal combat. So I think the flow is quite simple. You guys have five minutes extra in case you want to utilize it now that we are starting early. I'll leave it at your sole discretion now. Yeah, sure. Thank you so much. Thank you. Hi, everyone. So a quick introduction, I think, because it's essential since I am not so much in the PR run right now. Currently, I'm also doing podcasting, but you have been a consultant and an independent PR professional. I've been here for 22 decades of experience, etc, etc, and happy to be here. Happy to be connected with all of you. I think that is quite clear. But if there are any specific points that you want me to ask any of you, each of you, then you could just nudge me and let me know. I will keep it very free, free flowing so that we can take on all of it. I think most of the other co-panelists have worked very closely or are currently also working in the APAC region. So that makes it, you know, more probably relevant for them. So if you are ever having worked in that region, I'll probably just say a few words, but should we wait for the others? Abhishek is joining, right? Yeah, absolutely. I think we are a little early, so that's okay. I think we must take this opportunity to first thank Karan for taking this, you know, initiative of getting people together and this third edition of the Exchange Familiar PR and COPCOM 30 under 30 summit and the awards that are there. I'm sure the kids are extremely excited about these awards. It's a great way to actually recognize talent and also to motivate them. So thanks for that. And of course, also to Exchange for Media, Dr. Bhattra, etc., all the team that has put together this whole thing, I know the kind of hard work they did to get, you know, to get the jury to put together their comments, etc. And the criteria was extremely good. We had some great, you know, entries that were there. Some of them were excellent. So we'll wait until four to begin. I think I will not take the sheen off from that account. But I think Nandini was bang on to say that there are great kids who are taking on and as, and I'm sure it's, I mean, in our phase, most of the professionals have been into PR by chance and not by choice. But a lot of kids today come in by choice, you know, to get into communication. So obviously that whole bit about, you know, getting trained in PR communication has become mandatory or a lot of people are going in for that kind of thing, which is a good thing for the industry. I think it's a great kicker that you just put in Jotsna and, you know, just to take the mantle forward from there. Since my journey has been like by default, but it's great to make choices and make choices that are informed. It's a great time indeed to be in the communication sector and the privileged ones are really making it to PR because PR is no longer shelled and contained to very, very, you know, watertight ways of like, like the ways of conducting PR or the practice back then how we had it in the day. And it's exciting because there is so much digital, there's so much AI, there are just so many things around which the communication sector is preventing. And that's where I would like to, you know, keep bringing you guys back into the conversation that in your area and sectors of expertise, how is it different, how are you applying and how is this game really changing so rapidly and differently. And Gargi, a quick intro from you also like because you're in Australia, right? Yes, so I'm based out of Melbourne, but I actually communications was a choice for me so I did mass com I did my PR and cop com from Xavier's Bombay. And then I started my agency journey have been an agency person I think from heart I'm still one, even though I've moved to the comp side. But I've worked in India for quite a bit, like four or five years then I moved to Singapore there, I managed a pack and you know, Southeast Asia mandates. So gained a lot of experience over there and then eventually moved to Australia, two years back. So finally made the jump from agency to comps. Essentially, I love what I do. And I'm so happy to, you know, have this opportunity to share the fact. What I love about my job right now is that I get to use all that experience from across the region. So it's lovely. I mean, I am a bit intimidated seeing the panel and you know seeing all the whole speakers and hosts coming in for this. Apologies. So from the get go just I'm saying out loud if I fumble or anything it's just my nose. So it's all mutual okay so I think Abhishek is also there with us and it's just the perfect time I did Abhishek. Thank you guys here Jyotsana Gargi. What a delight and PR and communication landscape is continuing to evolve and we have been listening it like forever that it's one of the most dynamic sectors. And with some unprecedented and unexpected turn off events that we have seen in last few years. There are disruptive changes that have occurred in the world of PR as well. And campaigns, getting into digital PR realms, still new trends and industry patterns that are getting built up year on year. Industry trends are important to keep up for PR professionals today more than ever. So just in light of that kick starting today's panel on PR and communication management in a pack and India is examining the trends growths and gaps and I'm so very privileged to have a great panel and be hosting it Jyotsana dash Nanda AVP corporate comm DS group Gargi Dube you could just wave in and say hi maybe to everyone. PR and comms lead a pack open text Australia, Ziauddin Adil founded and managing director master PR Bangladesh and Abhishek Viani CEO, Helen Nolton strategies. Welcome everyone. Thank you. Thank you. Am I myself. Yeah, I'm the independent consultant and thank you mom. Am I audible mom. Yes, yes, good. Okay. So just to start the discussion right from the word go what are some of the practices trends and issues that you, you know individually feel that are impacting PR and comms in Asia pack specifically and I would like to start the panel with Jyotsana I'd like to start the panel and just have your views be shared. Thanks, but I would say that PR in Asia is relatively young compared to the US and has does have certain distinctive characteristics, which sets it apart from the other parts of the world like the in the earlier you know, et cetera said that you know there is a lot which is there in the VNC classes and urban and rural are not the same, et cetera, which is very typical to India, but in the Asia Pacific region which is actually becoming very very important for most brands to be present in order to focus on or that's where businesses and India obviously stands out in that but I would say that every market in Asia Pacific though they are different but the common challenges in finding the right people both be it you know on the corporate side or on the agency side remains you know the first obstacle is attracting them to the industry. Not many people have dreamt as we were you know talking so it's not by choice it's more was more by chance, but now gradually people seem to be coming into it. So the role of you know parents is still quite important in terms of determining their children's career path, what is the way forward what are the growth opportunities that are there. And sometimes that can steer them towards traditional career paths but it's hard to find good people that are there and that's a common thread across, you know, all markets that are there whether that's, you know, at the beginner level, middle level, senior level across all of it it is there and from what my understanding is that most agencies are short staffed in the Asia Pacific region. And while we might talk you know understaffed basically so we've I was recently talking to somebody as who was a head of one of the biggest companies in the world, and her team in Asia consists of only five people. Now, in the US big companies have hundreds of people in communication it's true that US is a major market but when you consider the diversity of markets in Asia, it's hard to manage without any, you know, appropriate headcount that is there. So appropriate funding obviously is an important thing most companies in Asia obviously spend only about 10% of the marketing budget on PR and the remaining 90% on advertising so advertising media buying or digital marketing. However, the situation seems to be improving and we have observed some increase in communication budgets, but the industry has become I mean more valued. We have more at the, you know, strategic levels at the drawing table when there are strategic decisions being taken, but you know that's one of the key issues that are there and as was being discussed in the earlier panel that I mentioned that, you know, with AI or technology the kind of, you know, crisis is that can happen is something that we need to be aware of. But I look at it as more in terms of, you know, the increasing importance of crisis communication so in an age where social media and instant communication is there. So organizations can face a crisis anytime in the future crisis management will become even more important with organizations needing to be prepared to respond quickly. As well as you know, effectively, you know, you have to be authentic in your storytelling, and to respond to any negative publicity or crisis situation so PR professionals will need to develop strategies that focus on identifying the potential crisis and then monitoring social, you know, constantly monitoring social media channels on a real time basis developing these crisis communication plans so that it can be activated as soon as crisis hits. And another important aspect I would say would be, you know, the growing importance of employee advocacy, all corporates, all clients, all brands, you know, have this urgent need to for talent attraction and retention. So with the rise of social media and the increasing importance of you know the authenticity transparency that organizations need to undergo organizations will still need to focus more on developing these relationships that are there with the employees. You know, and encouraging them basically to become, you know, advocates of the organization I always say that you know an employee is the best and brand ambassador of an organization, you know, so we are professionals will need to develop these strategies that focus on engaging with the employees and imparting them to share their experiences and opinions with their network so that social media, you know, policy yesterday I was speaking to a few of my counterparts in the industry and I wanted to understand if they have, you know, social media policies, etc. What is it that makes it, you know, flexible and at the same time, you have to also protect your reputation so keeping all those in mind you know I will not go on to talk about you know, data analytics obviously that's the most important thing and I, my most favorite line is that communication today is algorithmic. You know, it has to be based on data. So those tools that are there how do PR professionals and I'm, you know, Asia Pacific is doing it very well I have worked very closely with talk worker. There are many agencies which are there in India also, but I find talk worker. I think they're based out of Singapore, and they're awesome at their analysis, etc. Though we have visit key which is coming up which is specially for PR agencies which is doing equally well, and I'm sure will continue obviously, but that's what I would leave my thought with and let the other panelists take on. I think you've just said the agent right in place with all these pointers, Joe Stein I think I'm going to move the buck now to a big shake and really listen into your views on what, what really why it's very well pointed out that under stuff being undisturbed or you know loan investments and being a diverse region they are obviously their own set of challenges that a pack presents not not as of today but it is always always been the case, but specifically given the background backdrop of AI and where we are talking that so many jobs will actually get replaced. Abhishek I would just like to bring you in the conversation and have your piece on in this slide how do you see the practice in the trends, evolving or changing in the current PR and comms management in Asia pack. Abhishek you're on mute I think we can't hear you. Can everybody hear Abhishek I can't. No, no we can't. Abhishek. He is not audible. Abhishek is not audible. Can hear you now. Oh no, is that you. That's me. I don't hear Abhishek. Okay, Abhishek we can't hear you. So can I can I have the same question passed to Gary by the time you're fixing the audio we shake if you can hear us. Can you hear me now. Yes, awesome. Thank you again before you pass on the question. No, but thank you so much for the initial comments and I think it's a very, very important topic with with trends that are emerging, not only in India but I think, I think India a pack and globally. That context to first is that pandemic did prove to be a trigger point that kind of oriented oriented the field of communications. And I think made both agencies and communication experts kind of re strategize the business and roadmap that we want to take going forward right and that matter of media and content consumption is has got standardized across the world it's not only India in a pack the way consumers in a general sense, but our audiences in the general sense are consuming. You know information or content is kind of getting very equal in that sense right. And I think more importantly in in 2023 the agency landscape and I can speak from an agency perspective is really gone through a profound transformation. More and more traditional agencies now are looking at more being more comprehensive, full service entities and that should answer the question that you were trying to raise in terms of whether, how do we look at stuff. How do we look at our colleagues, how do we kind of look at the dynamic and structure of an organization or agencies per se. And if you really look at it the interesting data is that from an agency perspective in today's world 40% of the revenues actually coming outside of the traditional media services so you're actually selling more avenues which are encompassing on which is research ESD is going to pick up content creation, influencer management and if you really deep dive into what the work all agencies are doing. There is a lot of creative output that's actually coming out from what we called as traditional PR agencies right and that I think shift is really the adaptability and the broad spectrum with which we are kind of right now living in. And I think the third part which is very very important is the acceleration of a globalized world right we are today living in a borderless world which cuts across India a pack and other countries, and therefore it is becoming very very important for agencies to, who are multi market, they have a competitive edge because you're able to scale up for your clients and I can give you a couple of examples we work within with a leading IT services client which actually kicked off from India but now we're US UK Europe Middle East and the scalability is pretty quick we work with a startup who now wants to enter US market and therefore the scalability is pretty quick they've been talking to us about Singapore. So therefore, what you're able to do is, is in this borderless world how you're able to communicate together and therefore to answer your question on staff and how do you look at look at that in the challenges that we're all facing in terms of talent availability I think collaboration of the world and collaboration of a borderless world is the future keeping in mind three trends that a the audience consumption of media and content is evolved. That's one. Second is that you're just not a traditional, if I may say media relations output agency, you have to be multifaceted and that's not because agencies wants to push it also because of the fact that today agencies have to look at a communication challenge rather than a media relations challenge, because the external world is evolved and because the consumption of challenges or we may say challenges that CEOs and corporate communication directors and experts are facing are more evolved in nature and just not, you know, just not the requirements have changed completely. So I think that to another third is the fact that we're living in a world which is, which is borderless today I mean we it transcends, you know, countries it has to be multi market so therefore, you have to look at challenges and really the Indian companies are also getting extremely competitive and ambitious and therefore you'll have to bring in that scalability of services and geography in that sense. Now how each of us as agencies or each of us as, as coms experts do it is something that you know requires a much larger or a much broader discussion. But I think that's the initial comments that I want to bring in right now. Interesting viewpoint, I wish I could indeed and I'm going to come back to a few of them because what you said about the changing landscape of consumption of the content. In so many ways if I were to really look at ourselves as a consumer I think hardly any of us is actually going in consuming media because in the traditional way of media, even before the news breaks on like an HD or a to it's all over on an Instagram or you know another social media handle in informal and unstructured format of percolation of information that you have to you know even if you don't want to. Before I kind of you pass on I just want to add and I know you're on a very successful podcast. I want to add on to that there is no discussion that I'm doing with the CEO or a founder of a cop com lead who's not thinking of a podcast right now. Absolutely. My question is, are we as agencies ready to be able to offer that solution when I was saying that we need to get more integrated more communication aligned. I think it's important for us to get ready to what the market is evolving it and therefore we need to shift make that shift. Absolutely and here and I would like to bring in doggy because you do. And of course, because both of you do bring in an aspect and represent a part of Asia pack which behaves very differently. You know, so, so first to you baggy that allows now sitting in Australia how do you look at the entire coms, you know, navigate this whole coms landscape and how is it different how is it really different. To be honest, at the gist of what we do it still remains same. You'll be surprised what makes news, more or less remains same across the globe. A very big challenge is the media landscape as you mentioned, even the traditional media pool if you say so, because in India, this, you know, just the sheer number of publications and journalists and influences that you have is, I mean, so many times, much more than what we see in Southeast Asia markets or, you know, in Australia as well. I think Indonesia might come a little bit closer to how in, you know, India behaves in terms of public relations, but for the other market it's very difficult. I don't think anybody has a doubt that we live in a region which is, you know, business is booming. And I'm very fortunate to have been part of most of the discussions where people realize the importance of PR that is today and coms as a whole. Let's get a seat at the table. What I would really want to point out here is like Jyotsana said about you know the budgets coms budgets being tight. Being on the coms side I feel one very big responsibility we have is to guide the agencies properly to have them as partners. And if I can only do two interviews in a, in a quarter I will make sure those those two count for my, you know, sales people who are going out and pushing out my brand and getting the customers. It should not be just the tick in the box that okay I got this random opportunity and your face is there on this publication. And I feel the coms teams really need to play a very important role over there. Using technology, definitely and I'm very happy a lot of the legwork that I used to do as an executive now really doesn't rest upon them. How, you know, on point these technologies are at this point I am not too sure if I'll be very honest I'm sure we everybody has a tool for media monitoring but everybody's still filtering out nonsense from there. In terms of keywords it's not always perfect I would love to see go to a point where you know I can get anything about my brand and it's all perfect is synchronized and you know the way we want it. The other thing is I feel outside of India things are a little bit more structured in terms of how you approach PR, be media relations beat other aspects of coms. Abhishek said if you are a global organization if you have that scalability it's easier because a pack is a new market. For example for podcasts one of in my agency life one of our clients we were exploring the idea. We could actually learn from my colleagues in Europe on how they've done it or in you know us how they have done it so this exchange of knowledge is really helpful. But there are certain talent related challenges which honestly it's much much bigger in other markets. When it comes to because in India we still have a lot of talent pool, a large talent pool, a very big problem in our profession is expectations when the newbies come in. Finally in Paris, Sex and the City it's kind of ruined what we really do. I literally had an intern come up to come up to me and say that you know it's not as glamorous as I thought in Singapore. So I really feel that you know there needs to be a bit of expectation setting when these people come in. So when I was doing the comp work when I was doing the dossiers. I know it helped me because back in India I knew which were the top five publications in every region. And that was what the dossier taught me. So it did add value and I had people who kind of highlighted to me that why you are doing this. I think we really need to make sure that of course they need to develop strategies but they really need all the legwork all the experience to get to a stage where they'll be in a position to develop strategy. I studied comms we are honestly taught how to do strategies in college, but I really don't think we are in a position to deliver it effectively if we have not been through those experiences that we have. Absolutely. Yeah, please go ahead. I think, like, I mean the comms landscape is definitely changing but I will also want to highlight that a very important part is understanding relevance. Just because everybody is doing it does not mean you have to do it for a B2B tech enterprise organization, a lot of things doesn't make sense that is out there. It's something which nobody is doing might make sense for us. So I think it's very important to, you know, as an agency to guide your clients, I have people who feel that you know we should be on this social media and that social media we should do influencer management, and I really have to sit back and tell them that what is the ROI you're going to get you're not reaching out to the people you want to. Find an alternative that is more relevant. Definitely let's go ahead and do it, but that relevance that you know cutting the noise that's very important. So, yeah, like I said, what makes news is similar. I think in one major difference that I see is that a little bit of more maturity in the sense of the kind of content that reporters or journalists or editors expect is kind of slightly different. When I moved out of India and honestly I was in a bubble and I thought I have a pretty good writing skill. And when I came out of India I realized no not really, because I'm competing with people whose first language is English. And that's not my my first language is Hindi at home. So I definitely feel that you know, writing content, while we have different departments sitting out in our agencies, it should be encouraged a little bit more. I'm not sure I'm sure if people are already doing this, but I have seen a lot of people in our stream, coming outside of India and really struggling because our job at that time focus so much on media relations that all these tech skills that we need you know, like Abhishek said, that you know the realm of PR has expanded, you need to know certain other technologies you need to be good at content. You know you need to be good at bite size content simplifying things so this kind of training I think is very necessary to stay relevant. It's catching up in India. I am very happy to see that agencies are definitely will have love in terms of their content. And it's very important. It was a very funny incident. So I was working in Australia there was in an agency setting and somebody wrote an email to a finance team was based in India. And the reply came I will do the needful and my colleague was like, what does she mean. And I'm like she just means she'll do what's required. And that day I realized, I will do the needful is a very colloquial sentence, nobody outside of India understands what it means. I mean, it's just that, you know, when you're being a regional or global comms person you will have to understand these nuances, you will have to understand what's colloquial, what your audience, wider audience would understand what they want. Yeah, that's a good point that you brought in and I think that kind of straight away makes me move to other because that's the cultural part of the difference, you know in the calm so are they coming to you. How is the landscape there in Bangladesh and how are you really navigating it in comparison to the rest of the Asia pack. So I'm going to show you a little bit of Manta and the rest of the panelists Bangladesh, especially as a growing market is known, and it's not an exception. Social media and digital audience has created immense opportunity here as well as the challenges for the PR practitioners. So, as I said that the growing economy has a lot of different challenges in terms of people audience and this and the and the growing up the generations. So I'm going to focus into a few points, just to highlight the challenges we face here in this country in this economy. So nowadays every PR agency almost every day facing challenges in digital media conventional media has like print or television has orthodox approach structured process and the media relations, which is very much in systematic level challenges are widespread in social media in the digital platforms where the audience reacts very fast, good or bad especially the bad words of mouth, or incomplete or trim video images comments goes viral like a bushfire. So we need more focus and more tools to measure professionals who can address credibly and meaningfully, especially in the region like Bangladesh or Indonesia which has large population, as well as different sorts of challenges and opportunities. Let me give you an example in the power and energy sector. And as I told you that the growing economy is heavily dependent on the power and energy safety. So, in this sector, most of the large conglomerate has invested heavily in generations or in terminals or in the LPG distributions, besides their consumer durables banking or FMCG hospitals or other service businesses. So, the challenges comes for the corporate and their brands. Any issues on one sector goes wrong. Immediately, it affects the perception of the whole group or the conglomerates. Now, there's another challenge just has recently popped in is the Ukraine war and the global financial challenges. This back Bangladesh face well and cold shortage, which disrupted the power supply for few weeks. And this couple with devolution of inflation has impacted the inflation to devolution of the TACA has impacted the inflation to double G, which means not only the energy pricing FMCG or other consumer sector has gone up significantly. So the false allegations like companies are becoming East India Company has gone viral problem triggers specially in the digital media where few shoes has become damagingly threatening for these companies. Number one, the widespread, the fake news rampant on digital media misinformation. Number three is the lack of fact checks. Number four habit of sharing whatever news anyone gets beyond WhatsApp or Rails they they spread it like like bushfire. To address these few steps with, I think we need to incorporate immediately. First, all PR practitioners should be equally equipped or prepare for the digital functions. So, traditionally what we do, still we do is that we are building up a new digital horizon to address digitally. I think that current PR practitioners also needs to be equipped and prepared to address this meaningfully and with more, I would say, credibly. Second, we need to create a pool of practitioners, I mean, from a generation who are in 20s. And because what they think, how they think is very important for the brands and corporate to understand. So we're really getting in the PR solutions. We need to think what they talk and their language and the way they consume the content. So this adaptation in the is the opportunity as well as the future, I would say the alignment for the PR agencies. The most emerging economy in the region has as more than 50% population are at the age of 25, and Bangladesh has 68% population at the age of 30s, or below 30. So it's going to be whole new interaction stories perceptions we need to understand going forward for the brands for the corporate and for the people. That's from my side. I think I hear you and what you're saying in terms of a lot of emergence of these self publishing platforms which kind of dilute the whole idea of the credibility of the communication and that's really the crisis that we all are faced not only Asia pack but globally. So bringing in highlighting that point. So, are we, when we are talking digital transformation and digital, etc. Are we really able to make a good use of it to our benefit or are we just, you know, doubling apart trouble so Abhishek you could take a jab at it and then I'll come to you. No, I want to pick up on maybe try and kind of pick up on what Gargi said and then to an extent what everybody else said I think it's it's it's also coming down to data right because I think data is becoming very, very key. And I think more importantly if you look at it and I can just speak from our example here where I think it's getting important that we just move away from just so well data led monitoring and insights is becoming a standard norm. But I think we are reaching a point where we need to look at our audiences for more in terms of using data to understand what the intellectual and emotional connect with brands is right. And I think what we are trying to get into is that how audiences are creating an emotional connect is becoming a key metric of how content strategy therefore needs to be positioned you the standard form of whether how much coverage you got and things is just. It's good to do but I think we've kind of moved beyond and I think tools such as artificial intelligence which you were also mentioning earlier. And therefore hyper personalization is becoming very, very critical in terms of the way we gain grounds and artificial intelligence is therefore kind of going to I personally believe going to become a mainstream communication right. And therefore it's very important that technology today in communications kind of works through with our individual preferences behaviors and interests that we want to identify for our audience now look at that as a data available and insights. So one is having data available which is the, the what power part of it and I think the journey that we're all making towards us what does it mean, what is the inside of that. And imagine that you have in terms of your long form content which is I think also the challenge that people were highlighted then you need once you have what say I as an audience is consuming. And therefore then I have the expert writers who can do long form content or short form content, the kind of communication strategy that we as agencies or communication experts can rely on is is is phenomenal right. And I think what's going to happen also is in terms of what Adil was saying and I want to just touch it at a very broader level is that AI and tech is going to be central going forward there is no doubt about it it's it's a practice that's going to stand. And tech adoption will help communication teams with very quick analysis because you have that vast amount of data to identify potential risks now imagine a situation where you were reacting to risks to having any idea what potential risks could be from a reputation perspective that are going to come your way and then be prepared for it. And then if you are able to offer predictive insights into what potential crisis is you're actually ahead of the game always in your communication and not always reacting to what's coming. And I genuinely feel that we have reached a stage where proactively addressing issues and mitigating potential reputational damages can help win a brand's win in the market. Now, also that data is now available for what Adil was mentioning today at least in India I think there is enough tools that are available for fact checking and things like that. So, I think the whole idea is that how do we kind of standardize that across the world or Asia Pacific and our learning is really how we learn from each other to make it standardized. And I mean it from a communication perspective how I learned from Adil and Adil learns from me is going to be the future of us kind of collaborating together as coms experts. Absolutely just like your words on this. I think tick tick check check whatever Abhishek has said you know then definitely make sense you know but I agree with the fact and I have been primarily an agency person through and through and coms or corporate is a pretty new area for me I would say just four months into corporate, but making the content relevant to who it's being talked to, and also catering it or mapping it to the brand nuances and crossing the barrier, you know, of just one particular language is not be all and end all effect. You know how do you connect to the entire audience what is it that they are talking what is it that they are doing all of that needs to be made relevant to, you know, making it futuristic. And like, I mean, while all of us are talking about, you know, the future is data, etc. you know, shopper or laser shop insights into consumer behavior, meaningful messaging hyper personalized customer service etc we are talking about. I just have one little question, you know, we are talking of an AI enabled future. You know, is the educational curriculum, even integrating all of that, you know machine learning AI etc. How is it that we are, you know, adapting to all of that. And then comes the bigger question, you know, in the earlier session also people were talking about AI etc and using it responsibly. So if I'm feeding in the data, which is not specific to me so I will not put in specific data about my organization because it'll go to the wider world, but that data which I put into the AI, you know, document that is there to turn out or to do my research is something that the tool takes on as a normal. You know, now that it becomes more generalistic and leaves behind you know the nuances of the brain, the brand that is there. So that's how critical it is and it's important for us and like Abhishek rightly said it's important for all of us to collaborate. So if I as a brand understand that my particular I have a certain TG that is there who's going to listen to a particular kind of messaging or narrative and probably podcasting is the right way to go about it because that has a very niche, you know, focused audience that is there and that's a more targeted approach, you know, and, or if I want to go in for something which is in only Singapore. How do I go about and target only that market and what's the kind of so the language that I'm going to use the kind of narrative I'm going to use in India is going to be very different from what it is going to be in Singapore so coming back to you. And sometimes culturally we need to understand how it works. You know why did McDonald's come up with a little tiki burger. You know they had to resonate with the Indian audience. We had, we use. I mean I've worked with a very leading automobile flying, and they were leaders and aspirationally they were very high and everybody wanted to buy the brand, but always felt it was not for us because it was more expensive. Right. And we realized that while in the metros it was selling very well in the smaller towns it was not selling very well. And the reason was because they always thought it was more expensive. All we did it's a simple little tweak in the strategic planning that we did for PR and we said we will take the brand to those centers. We will identify those centers where they are not having enough sales and do certain interventions PR interventions that are there. And let me tell you in one year's time those markets improved. Now that is the data. You know that we are analyzing and coming back. And then each time you do an intervention you also map and see how is it translating into the in terms of ROI etc. So we always say that you know there is no direct impact on sales etc when it there's a PR intervention, but it does lead to some kind of a traction, which is a positive traction and we need to take it. Sometimes you can do some amount of PR and you can have more followers on LinkedIn. You know we've also had certain intervention you know you've done a lot of work on the social media platforms and then that has led to more progress. Probably people want to be associated. So these are small little things. How do we utilize those to our advantage is what we need to do in a collaborative manner, work with each other, understand, learn from each other. Yeah, I think just to add to that point. It's just not about the ML or the AI at the end of the day who is behind that ML that is a human and who is ahead of that ML that is the human because ultimately that data has to be non-bias. It has to make sense. It has to be done with discretion and the right inputs needs to be given to the machine for it to throw out the right results. So well said and I think we can't rest our case enough on AI alone. And just in the interest of time because this is a must, you know, kind of a catch up conversation. I would want at least one of you to address the part on how internal and external comms management is playing an essential role in the overall health and vitality of any business, any brand irrespective of its audience. So maybe Abhishek, you could or Gagi, maybe you could take a go at it because this is something that we have actually not touched. Yeah, no I can come in and I'll try and keep it short so that Gagi can come in too. I think a couple of points I want to make. I think internal and external if you just, you know, I genuinely believe that we're reaching a point where we're trying to address communication challenges for organizations, right. And I think it's very important for if we cut across tools from our life and say that we want to address communication challenges and then look at that as a benchmark to look at integration, both from an internal perspective I think the world of communication is a much more easier world to see. We I think sometimes overwhelm it by saying oh I want to you know the answer to this is let's do, let's go do podcasts let's do. But we're not using data that we're saying and again what I'm saying that don't get overwhelmed by artificial intelligence. It is your rightly said that it is actually going to be a great enabler to the communication expert in the future to say now I have these data and insights and AI tools available to really create that integrated campaign which is personalized to my audience, and it caters to the kind of content strategy across paid earned and short shared media to be able to to be able to personalize my campaign and therefore towards the end then be able to showcase measurable business impactful data to say look I have made a change the constant battle that we've been having with and Jyotsana was early on the agent side and now in the cop com side will be saying can you show me tangible results and I think now agencies have or are moving towards using these tools to create tangible results and I completely agree let's artificial intelligence and I'll see those data and insights are going to be are here for the future, but they're going to be an enabling function. So I think that is what you have said, it's also very important for brands to tell you what's the difference, it's made because end of the day, if there is more traction at my end as a corporate communication person. If there is any traction that is there in terms of sale that is, you know that are more people who've come on or following me on LinkedIn. It's for the corporate communication team to collaborate with the agency and tell them, hey, this is the intervention you did basis which we've had this. So then we can go back and you can make a system which is more effective. I mean, I'll come back to month and maybe on a side channel I'd love to show you some of the data we're able to do in terms of not only how conversations have are fading and moving away over a period of time, but also actually go down to sentiment not just positive a little but also come down to emotions of joy, where we are able to kind of trigger out this announcement was it with your audience received but joy, or what kind of emotion so I think that excess of data with the right kind of behavioral analytics is a is a great thing that's happening in the industry is just that these I genuinely believe that it's, it's a great enabling tool for communication experts like us to see how we can bring it more into a campaigns and be really involved in what organizations and senior communication directors like you are kind of trying to achieve for your companies and brands Just wrapping up thoughts, Gauri, your parting note on this question. I think one very important thing is I feel a lot of times when we talk about these technologies, we only look at consumer brands. There are a lot of B2B brands that do not basically excite customers because they don't even know the role that. And it's a very big challenge for us to you know, kind of understand and tell the story in that way that I mean it is simple. If you think of it it's about talking about the impact. Forget about your product talking about the impact you create and your value proposition, but in when it comes to technology, I completely agree it's an enabler will I be happy to rely on an AI when I'm in a crisis situation. Some parts yes some parts no, I will be very happy for it to have a search box where I can see who all are talking about this. I'll be very happy to see what's the precedence. If somebody has been in this situation what they've done, but definitely I would be more comfortable having a human friend the whole strategy and do it for me. Yeah, Adil your your last thoughts on the discussion. Okay. As a bishop was telling about the data and the, and the AI, the importance of it. I think the another area which doesn't say the who is doing the analysis. That's important. How the interactions are transformed from the data, how they are interpreted to have solutions in the PR. And that's very important the people capacity development. So I think this is the area where the data will be there will be bombardment of data coming days from various media from various source from various machines, the people analyzer who are doing that will do the analysis of it in a meaningful way is the key to address this in a successful way I think that's more important. Yeah, let's not forget that whatever said and done, even sitting right in this age in the middle, and right on the nose of AI we've had fiascos like what has happened with the bonvita with food pharma, you know Nestlé, things like that so so this is a discussion to be continued forever and ever, and the debate that can go on and on and I'm so glad that unanimously or each one of you did put in and roll in a point on podcasts and I'll be really happy current if you're listening for this thing to put together maybe a different discussion. We were all thinking for a podcast with you. Absolutely. And I would call it a wrap. We are listening. We keep our eyes and ears open. There's the parting note I'd like to say the only thing worse than being talked about is not being talked about at all. So let's keep the conversation going PR, AI, ML, and we'll keep coming back with more and more interesting debates. Thanks, Karan. Thanks for him. Hello everyone. Thank you for being such a great panel. I'm sure the audience would have loved. We already have I think 178 registration but you will not see them there they are on the other platform. Okay. But nonetheless I'll share the snapshot with you guys can have a look at it, but really great to have you all and some of you are also on the jury so great. Thank you again we have in another 20 to 25 what minutes we'll start announcing the winners of our 30 into 13 initiative this is our 30th. And most of you who have been panel except Gargi is that you know Adil has already won the best PR agency for the from Bangladesh. In fact we were doing something on Southeast Asia so he was the first one who won it. The rest of you have been part so thank you. We look forward to keeping the same thing for the same thing for the words. Yes. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you everyone. Thank you.