 Casey is the SEO Director of Digital Marketing at Co-Marketing, a B2B marketing agency in Boston. She has been in the digital space since around when Facebook launched, working on both our agency side and in-house, and she is a frequent writer and speaker. Casey once compared a shock at being invited to speak at Muscon to how Taylor Swift reacts every single time she wins an award. Even though she is a prolific speaker and a veteran to events like this, a love for Muscon makes this feel extra special for her. A talk is aimed at shaking up your assumptions about content creation. I'm sure you feel the passion in this one. We'll see you soon. Hello, Muscon. I am so happy to see you. I'm so happy to be here talking about content, counter-intuitive content. As you know, I'd love to talk about content. I've talked a lot about content over the years, content problems, memorable content, repurposing content, visual content, customer-driven content, content with data, content promotion, content gaps, and of course, counter-intuitive content. Well, what does that actually mean? Well, we'll get to that. I want to start by telling you about my search for content marketing tips because as a marketer, I like to see what other people are doing. But here's the problem. If you can't see that, it's 1.5 trillion results. That's crazy. How can there possibly be that much advice? What is that advice? Well, I decided to take a look. I wanted to find out. I took a look at the top 50 results from the past year and I pulled out all of the tips and I grouped them into themes. Here's what that looked like. You see things like brand voice and goals and be helpful and use your data. The reality is that there wasn't anything that was super surprising, aside from promotion being like leaps and bounds above everything else. Kind of weird in 2021, but hey, we're here. The thing that did stand out to me was new mediums. I grouped things like video and podcasting and that makes sense, right? This isn't surprising because things change, trends change, but this isn't necessarily advice. We got five years ago and I can prove it. Look, we were still talking about promotion. We were still talking about headlines. We were talking about user-generated content and guest posting and being creative. We were really high on how to format your posts list. This is so good, right? We're also high on buyer personas. Thank goodness those went away. There was also this. Thanks for that, Google. That's the thing there's good advice. There's bad advice. There's also advice that was once good, but now it's bad. Then there's advice that maybe it's good, but it just doesn't make sense for everybody. That's the thing. If you're a content marketer who's been doing it a while, if you're new, it can be really hard to figure out what to do because like I said, the technology changes, search results change, user behavior changes. That's where this idea of counterintuitive content comes in. Counterintuitive content is the idea of bucking trends to do what's right for your site. Do what's right for you. Here's some examples. Buzz demo comes out with this piece every year. They take a look at what makes the best headlines. They look at 100 billion posts. That's a lot of posts that should give us good data. Here's what they found. The best headlines have 11 words, 65 characters, and you should use the number 10 in your headlines. Okay, sure. Here's what happens for marketing. We have this piece that's been around for years. It has seven words, 47 characters, and it uses the number 14. Maybe we shouldn't blindly follow that advice. Let's look at some other examples. You hear a lot about frequency, right? That was one of the things that came out in the tips and the amount you should be posting. Really, we've always kind of been told more is better. Well, here's a client that we've been working with for several years. When we first started with them, that red arrow, we were creating 20 assets a month. That's a lot of content, but they wanted to move fast. They wanted to rank fast. Okay, we're going to do it. Well, guess what happened after six months? Thing that usually happens. Budgets are cut, resources changed, and we went from 20 pieces of content a month to four. Now, you'd think that traffic wouldn't improve all that much after that, right? But check this out. Traffic not only improved, but the end of last year where you see those big green spikes, we had been producing two posts a month. Maybe more content isn't necessarily better. Here's their leads. When we cut back on content, we started focusing on optimizing older posts and adding calls to action across the site to improve lead generation. Maybe less content is not a bad thing. This client would agree. For years, we were told to have a bigger site, right? Bigger sites perform better. Well, that's sort of changed because, yeah, it can be unless you have stuff on there that's no longer valuable. And look, if you've ever gone back and looked at your old posts that you've written, or you've gone back and done a data dump of your posts, you're going to find things that really aren't that valuable. And so this is what we did for a client. We took a look at the data and we found, look, there's a ton of content on here that we don't need. And so we got rid of it at the end of August. And check out what happened in October, right? We cleaned up that content and now the search engines aren't crawling this junk content, right? That helped. So not having this huge site with all this content was needed. Now, I'm going to kick it back old school because, yeah, these tips are tied to blogs and writing. Well, what about print? We know that print's dead, obviously. Well, someone told that to Yankee Candle because they still tend out a ton of direct mail. And one of these things is a catalog that has scratch and sniff. That is brilliant because I can't tell you how many times I've gotten a Yankee candle and thought to myself, I'm not going to buy this. I don't know what this smells like. Scratch and sniff, print, brilliant. And look, I think they seem to be doing all right. Although I will say, you know, maybe 2020 was so good because people were stuck in their houses and they realized, like, hey, I need this place to smell a little better. But it's cool to see that, hey, print can still be done. The things that we know aren't necessarily true. Now, before we jump into adapting your own strategy, I want to end on this one because if we go back to our content promotion tips, our content marketing tips, promotion was the top tip. And of those, 25% were around social media. Well, at the time I was putting together this presentation, I saw the study come up at our news. 61% of marketers are boosting their investment in Instagram. Know what the best part about that article is? This right here. Instagram was not at the top of the list of the most effective social media channels for reaching business goals. What? To me, this is the perfect example of people doing something because they're supposed to. Why are you spending effort, time, and money for something that isn't effective? I've said before, I'll say it again, there is no one size fits all solution to content marketing. And while, yeah, there's some great advice out there, what we have to realize is things change, right? Those things change. And sometimes you have to think counter-intuitively. And that means you need to understand your landscape and your content has to be about you, which goes to this idea of content landscaping. It's taking stock of the elements to know where you stand and what you need. Because in order to create better content, to have a better content marketing, you have to look at the landscape. And these are the elements of that. We need to understand our existing efforts. We need to look at performance. We want to understand the competitors. Of course, we need to know what's happening with search and our keyword landscape. We want to understand social. And yeah, we need to know what's new and what's coming down the pipe. So let's start with what I like to think of is the foundation of our landscaping. And that's your existing efforts. Because when we're talking about our strategy and we're talking about how to get better, we have to know what we've already tried and what we've already done. Every year, clients ask me, what results can we expect this year, right? What are our goals for next year? And honestly, it's a great question because it forces me to look at what we're doing. And it forces me to understand what we can modify and do better. And when it comes to understanding our existing content efforts, we need to ask ourselves questions like this. How much content are we actually creating? And of that, how much content actually went live? What types of content did we create? What's the process for that? How much did it actually cost? And these are important because it leads to something like this. So this is an internal email I created for client planning for their 2020 goals. And what you'll see I noted here is this year's numbers were so huge because they hadn't previously focused on SEO. 2020 will be harder and we have a reduced budget. I had to look at what we did. I had to look at what the results were. And I had to look at what our budget was in order to understand what we should do and what we should expect. Because to help guide our strategy, give them accurate numbers and understand the future, I had to look at the present and I had to look at the past. Because here's the thing. Knowing what's happening, understanding those efforts helps me to dictate what's going on. And I need to understand performance. We know about performance. It was in there in 2015. It's in there in 2020. It's never going to change. It's always going to be in there. And here, if we go back to that goals email, so a big part of our content strategy and really the reason clients pay us is for generating leads. And one of the ways we're doing that is through the creation of banners that we're placing throughout the site. So if you look at these numbers, as again, was going into 2020. And if you look at these numbers, you can see that 2019 was actually down. But for 2020, I was proposing that we were actually going to go higher. And what I found was I knew that the banners had started making an impact. I knew that they were starting to lead to better performance. And that helped me feel confident that we could actually grow leads versus what we saw last year. And what's more important is that normally, we wouldn't tell our clients to give us budget to create images. Like, that's not really our strong suit, but we knew that they were working. So it's, hey, let's focus our budget on this thing and make it a priority. The most important thing to think about when it comes to performance is your goals, right? What were your goals and did you hit them? And look, you don't need to do this for every single piece of content, but you do need to have a general idea. And if you don't have goals, well, it's time to set some, right? Gotta have some goals. Here's an example of that in action. So I'm really big into these like guide-style assets for my clients. They're amazing, right? Like, we crush the featured snippets. They drive tons of traffic, tons of leads. And so at the beginning of 2019, I had this client, right? And we started creating these guides for them. And for all intents and purposes, this strategy should have worked, right? The guide had everything it needed from a cert perspective. It's probably like 25 words. It had gifts and charts, has banners, but it just wouldn't move past the second page. We built links to it. We added internal crossings. We built supporting content. Nothing. And so I thought, okay, maybe it's just this term. So we did it for another one, for a different keyword. And guess what? That didn't move either. And so I had to change tactics. Like, yeah, this is working for other clients, but every site isn't the same. And so we switched to creating these shorter feature pages, these solutions type pages that weren't as lengthy. We also switched to optimizing old pieces of content. And this was the result. When we shifted disability-improved and traffic started growing, should we have adjusted sooner? Maybe, but what's key here is that what works for one site doesn't always work for another. And by understanding the goals of our content and the goals of our program, we were able to adjust and adapt. So I know that can be hard, right? How do we even know where to look? Well, when it comes to performance, I really like to look for outliers. And I love looking in Search Console to see like what stands out. So this is a medical client and their core products are ADs. And if we look at this, impressions are miles above the rest of everything else, but our traffic doesn't reflect that. And if you look at the SERPs, they don't appear to be ranking for ADs at all, except when I dug in, they are. They're actually in the People Also Ask box. And what's so important about this is that their team has really been pushing back on these types of higher level assets, right? One of the key arguments is, our buyers don't need to know what it is. They don't need this high level advice. They're already educated. And maybe that's true, but with this search result, the intent is varied. So it has this high level content, but it also has shopping results. And so this helped us not prove the value that this is the type of content we need to be there, but also let's put products on those pages so we're hitting those people who are qualified buyers. Now, I mentioned this in the past, but if you're looking at Search Console, take a look at what's driving impressions, but not clicks. What's ranking but has a low click-through rate? Because this is great opportunity for easy wins. It really is. What does the search result look like for that term? And more specifically, what does your result look like? Why is that click-through rate so low? Because maybe all you need is a title tag update, a content refresh. Maybe you need to change the title. But it might not be the highest priority, but if it's working, take advantage of that. Sometimes there's just easy wins in this. The same thing can apply to just looking at what you're ranking for that maybe you're not aware of. So I like to just throw the domain into SEMrush to see what keywords we might be ranking for that I didn't even know about. Are there any impositions three through 10? Are there any opportunities to update things, to write a new piece? If I'm looking at this, if I'm looking at co-markings data, maybe we update Google SEO best practices 2017. Or honestly, if we're thinking counter-intuitively, maybe we get rid of that because I'm not sure I want people who are coming in looking for 2017 best practices. We also can look at competitors. And look, I'm never gonna tell you to copy your competitors, I'm just not. But I am going to tell you to make sure you understand what it is they're doing. I have a client in the cybersecurity space and we are running paid LinkedIn campaigns for them. And one of the challenges we've been having is that the creative just isn't sticking, right? Nothing's sticking like we'd like it. We're targeting CISOs, we're targeting VPs, like a pretty serious crowd. And here's the thing, like this is one of their competitors and this is the type of content that you see. It's pretty basic standard ad fare that you just gloss over because it's boring. But to be fair, we were kind of doing that too because that's the status quo. Well, when we started digging in and looking at what competitors were doing, we also found this. So one of their competitors is creating these pretty creative eye-catching ads. And we were able to look at that data to see, hey, people are liking this, people are sharing this, like maybe this crowd isn't quite as staunchy as we thought. And so we changed our ads to create something a little bit more eye-catching, a little bit more out there. And it's honestly one of our best performing ads, but we never would have been able to do that if we didn't see the competitors doing something of the sort, right? We were able to go to our client and say, hey, let's take a chance, right? And again, that's just something that you get used to doing. But looking at the competitive landscape can just help you to see like, hey, maybe there's something else I'm missing or I'm not even thinking about. I can go on and on about social networks and how I feel about them all day long. But I will say there are a lot of good things in them. And one of those is the ad transparency. So if you look at LinkedIn, you can go to a specific page and if you look at their posts, there's an ads button. So you can see exactly what ads your competitors are running. You can see the creative, you can see if people are sharing it, you can see if they're commenting on it. I think it's really cool just to understand that. Facebook has something similar. So Facebook has their ads library where you can search by keyword, you can search for individual advertisers. And again, same concept. So you can go through and see, are people actually advertising on these different keywords? What are my competitors talking about? How are they saying it? How is the audience reacting? That is amazing research, right? We don't get that all the time. The other piece is if you wanna look at ad copy, you can dig into SEMrush. You can also use spy food for this, which is free. But what I like is I can look to see what they're using in their ad copy, like the types of keywords, the type of messaging they're using. Because look, at the end of the day, you're not necessarily gonna copy your competitors, but it can inform your strategy. And maybe get your boss to take a chance on something they might not have. So to me, this might be one of the most important parts of understanding your content strategy. Or in the case of many reevaluating. So when I talk about the search landscape and I talk about the keyword landscape, I think a lot about what we do. And at the beginning of every program, we do this super intensive deep dive to determine what we wanna focus on, right? This huge keyword research doc where we look at all the landscape and we figure out, here's what our priority keywords are going to be, but here's what everything that's being searched to stop guides us. But what I can tell you is this, we often forget to go back and reevaluate those keywords, right? A year or two in, yeah, like, we're doing really well for these things. We're still targeting, maybe we added some more. But what are we actually looking at, right? Maybe they're ranking, maybe they're driving traffic, but is it the right traffic? Look, as marketers, we see a chart moving up and our brains go, yay, but just because something is driving traffic, it doesn't mean it's the right traffic. So again, this is where we have to think counterintuitively. Traffic's going up, but what about your balance rate? What about your conversions? So my client sells tide clocks and they recently had an asset move into position two for a keyword that has 27,000 searches per month. Like, that's a big win, right? And we look at this data and that asset is now 50% of their organic traffic. And at first we were pumped, right? Like, we've been moving this asset, like we've seen it move up the ranks, we've seen it started gaining traffic, but you can see what happened in May. Cool, except when we started putting together the report, we can see that it's actually not driving any sales and it never has. This is a $4,000 clock and while the search results used to actually be similar, they've changed a lot. And so now you see these like lower cost digital clocks and you see Amazon and so that intent is very different. The people who are buying that are very different. And so we had to change our perspective on it, right? We're not going to try to give them these assets that, yeah, drive a lot of traffic but aren't relevant. We have to go back and reevaluate our keywords and reevaluate those pieces of content to see. What are the ones that actually have a high buying intent, right? And that can be a hard mindset to change because again, we like traffic. The cool thing is, is that we can do this pretty quickly. So I think when, you know, when I think about, oh God, I have to go back and redo my work, but there's tools that do this. And so we can use Moz's SERP analysis tool to see like what content's ranking, you know, what keywords are in it, what type of content do we need? Like that stuff is amazing and it's all in one place. SEMrush also has their content template tool and that'll show you like related keywords. It'll show you like the readability. It'll show you like the recommended length. And again, it'll show you the competitors that are actually ranking for that. So again, you can get a sense of, well, what does this look like now and who are the people who are there? Another tool that I shared a couple of years ago but I really like and I still think is valuable is Storybase. And one of the reasons I think it's valuable is because they show you demographics by your keywords. And that seems pretty important, right? So it's paid but there's a free version of this. So this tool is demographics.io and it's actually powered by Storybase. Shout out to Mike King who brought this to my attention. But what's amazing about this is that what we can see here for that tide clock search is look, there's not a lot of 18 to 24 year olds looking for a $4,000 tide clock, not shocking. The majority of that demographic is 55 plus. So that's who we wanna tailor our content to, right? That's who we need to speak to and that's a certain style of writing. That informs what we're doing. If you're running paid campaigns, I also love to look at search query reports. It just gives me a sense of like what people are looking for, like both relevant and irrelevant, irrelevant. I said this before, but again, to me, this keyword in search piece is one of the most important parts of your strategy because at the end of the day, if we aren't showing business results, we aren't doing our jobs, right? And we need to understand that keyword landscape, we need to understand the intent to do so. I'll keep this piece short, but we do have to consider the social landscape as well. Remember this, right? People investing in Instagram, even though it might not be effective, it can be valuable. You know, I mentioned a LinkedIn campaign earlier that we're running and to be fair, it's one of the best lead generators that we have. It drives qualified leads, but that doesn't mean that every channel is for everyone and that's what we have to understand. Find which channel is for you, right? Take a look at your referral traffic to see what's actually driving conversions, what channels are your competitors spending time on, where is your audience? Look at that demographic data. Again, here, right? Look at that demographic data. So if you know who's buying your product, you can figure out how to target them and on which channel, right? We know this is a 45 to 64 age bracket that makes up the majority of these time clock searches. Well, this is Facebook's demographic and that's 26% of Facebook's audience. So given the targeting options, Facebook might not be a bad place, right? TikTok, maybe not the right channel, which leads me to this next section. How many times have you heard, hey, what have you heard about X or our CEO asked about X? What do you guys think? Should we try it? Our job as marketers is to stay on top of what's happening and be able to provide that advice. Sometimes we don't know, but one of the ways is to look at that data. For my client, like for this example, like when they asked me, should they advertise on Facebook? My initial reaction was absolutely not, but the data tells me something different, right? The same thing applies when it comes to these new things like Clubhouse or Twitter Spaces or whatever else is next. Is this the best place for my budget, my client's budget? Maybe not, but that doesn't mean I can't dig in and see if there are things that apply because look, it turns out people love talking about the weather. Weather TikTok is its own thing. So you might even be able to use something you already have, right? If you're creating videos, can you take them and turn them into something else, right? If you have images, can you turn them into something that's fun and useful? My point is, well, we don't wanna jump at everything, right? With these new trends and understanding what's new, we need to understand what's new, right? We shouldn't discount them either because there may be a way to repurpose what you're doing and to put it onto other channels you haven't used. So understanding your landscape is key to figure out this whole thing. It's key to your strategy. All these things we just looked at, it's about you, right? It's not about the advice you're finding online. It's not about trying to be everything to everyone. It's not even about using everything I just gave you. Some of it might work, some of it might not and that's okay, you have to be okay with that. It has to be about you. So all of this leads us to how can we create content on our own terms? And this comes down to five things. That first thing is testing, testing, testing, testing. And one of the problems we have as content marketers is there really isn't a lot of room for failure, right? So this idea of testing can be a little bit abstract. I spent all this time on resource, I spent all my time and money on this piece. I don't have time to test it. I think about paid and like I honestly love, like I think about switching to paid all the time because it's all the things we do as content marketers. It's writing, it's psychology, it's search. And what's more amazing is you can understand results so fast. But the good news is things are changing. So if you're addicted to Buzzfeed like I am, you might notice that if you visit the site a few times and you don't click on a headline, that headline changes. In fact, one of their data scientists did a presentation a few years ago detailing the tool that they use and the process involved in this. And it is awesome. She talks about like the tool they use, the process that they created and then it gets really data sciencey and I kind of got lost. But the cool thing is you don't need to know that stuff because there's more things coming out now that will help you. If you're on WordPress, there are now plugins that will do this for you, including Thrive. So Thrive's paid, it's like $19 a month right now but it will take your headlines and it will test them to figure out what works for you. This is really cool. There's also a free one. It hasn't been updated in a while. It's kind of the only free version out there. But that said, maybe if all of us content marketers are working together, they'll go and update it, right? Yeah, we can help. Now, there's other areas of testing beyond just your headlines. It's think about your content placement and specifically how you're inserting CTAs into your copy and site. So I mentioned earlier that that's a lot of what we do, right? We take CTAs and we implement into these like resource content assets that we're creating because really we wanna take people through the user journey. And especially when you're dealing in featured snippets where it's those top of the funnel searches, you wanna get those people who are ready to buy or we're further down the funnel onto that next step. So to do this, we started placing banners directly below the intro paragraph, but that's not random. When we think about this is we think about that user journey. So that piece of content that they're landing on, where is it? Is it an awareness? Is it in consideration? Is it in decision? And that's what we're going to take them to next depending on it. So for example, if someone comes in on a how-to post, we're not gonna send them to a demo, but maybe a guide is the right thing to do. The other piece of this to test is like where you put the CTA. So test your placements, test the banner copy, test the assets themselves. You may also wanna add UTM tracking to see if people are actually clicking on them. I get a lot of client questions like, hey, are these actually working, right? We just spent this time and effort doing them. Are they actually doing anything? And Google Analytics user flow isn't really that great when it comes to it. So I would suggest adding UTM tracking to those banners so you know if people are clicking through them and you can start testing that. Now, I'd be remiss if I didn't mention search pilots ODN, this was previously distilled. What's cool about this is it allows you to test your title tags like for SEO purposes and look like we don't do a lot of this, but I do think there's something to be said for it. It's really cool, the functionality is super cool and it allows you to get that real data. I think there's a future in this that people need to be spending more time on. The next piece is resources, are precious resources. Our time, our money, our effort. You know, when I think about that 2015 advice, there was actually a lot of stuff in there about outsourcing and I think there's a natural inclination to be like, ooh, we don't wanna do that. I actually don't have a problem with it because it can help you get things done quicker and for less money. Obviously, the key is making sure you're outsourcing the right things to the right people, right? You still want that quality, but you have to make the most of what you have, right? And most importantly, you need to make sure you're focused on the right things, right? Let's go back to this. Let's go back to that example we talked about at the beginning. We had to go from 20 pieces to four. That's a big change and that changes, our goals didn't change. That's the other piece, right? Our goals didn't change. We had to refocus and we had to figure out what's going to have the biggest impact. Had to focus on what's gonna drive results. Of course, there are tools because I would never give a presentation and not talk about tools. They make life easier, they make life better and honestly, there's just so many good ones out there, so many free ones out there. I'm not gonna go crazy today, but I do wanna highlight a few that I use that I use all the time. So I mentioned earlier Moz and SEMRush both have really good content marketing tool sets, especially when it comes to looking at what's working, what you're doing, what you can improve. I also love Portland's headline analyzer and look, I'll be honest, I'm not sure if it's real or not, but it creates a spark, right? It's something that can just help you create a spark. I wouldn't necessarily use it verbatim, but it can drive that spark to get you thinking about, oh yeah, this is a good idea about this topic. I know I mentioned this tool a couple years ago and I won't stop mentioning it because it's awesome. I think it's important to revisit because let me tell ya, still seen a lot of stock images out there. So Recorder will actually allow you to create your own GIF based on screenshot. So earlier I showed you that screenshot of all the tips coming in that's made with Recorder. It's super easy, it's free and it allows you to give clients, like here's a product demo, here's something to add to your post to make it a little bit more interactive to catch people's eye. That's the stuff you wanna be doing. The last one I wanna share because I'm just spending a lot more time on Reddit and I honestly just can't believe it's like such a content gold mine. So Keyword it is actually owned by higher visibility, but it's still awesome, it's still forgotten about, basically you put in a term, it finds the subreddit and it gives you hear the things that people are talking about, right? That's crazy. If you wanna go back, so I had mentioned a bunch of tools in my 2019 presentation and there's tons of them in there and look like yeah, it's a couple years old but they're still awesome tools. There really are, I use them all the time. So along with testing and resources, we have goals. Goals, goals, goals, all content should have a goal. I can't stress that enough. Let's say you're updating a post. What can you expect to see, right? So if I'm creating a post, I actually just had an email today where the client said, hey, if we do this, what can we expect to see? I need to have a goal. And that goes back to understanding your existing efforts, understanding how your site performs and understanding how you can create those goals based on that information, right? I'm not gonna harp on this, it's pretty straightforward but remember, these are the goals, like you wanna set goals that make sense for you, right? That makes sense for your site. I'm gonna talk about this idea of counterintuitive content. There's something I wanna make clear. It doesn't mean you can't or shouldn't try new things. It doesn't mean you shouldn't take the advice of marketers, after all, you're at a marketing conference with people giving you advice. But it does mean you shouldn't jump at every new thing, right? Your client hired you or your boss hired you because they're confident you know what they're doing. So be the expert, right? Take the time to investigate but don't jump on the latest trend just because you have FOMO or feel like you should. I think about Clubhouse and I didn't accept that invite and guess what? People have all moved over to Twitter's faces. So think about what you're gonna get from that. Now, ironically, this last one is somewhat counterintuitive to the previous slide, but that's to be open to new things. So I mentioned earlier my client who didn't seem like a good fit for Facebook but the advertises of the demographic data showed us something different. It showed us that there was an opportunity and this was the result. I know these numbers are small, like two, three, but these products cost four grand, right? So this has actually become a really solid advertising channel for us and what's even better, like these people are older, right? We don't have to create anything crazy. We don't have to come up with new dances to get their attention. We know who they are, we know what they're looking for. Your content has to be right for you, right? And it has to be, you have to understand it and you need to understand the landscape and you need to do it on your terms. That's the idea of counterintuitive content that I wanna leave you guys with today. So as Tim Gunn famously said, don't make it work. And lastly, we did just put out a report on B2B marketing and content marketing performance. So go check it out. Thank you, Maz Khan, it was a pleasure to be back.