 On behalf of SOAS, I'm the Pro Director of Research and Enterprise and I was originally due to be chairing the session tonight but I've got a bug. I've spent half the day in bed and dragged myself in but I'm feeling really out of it so I've very kindly just been allowed to say a few words at the beginning and I'm going to have to go and I'm reassured by the fact that it's going to be videoed so I'm going to get a chance to watch it later because it's going to be a fantastic presentation. Such an interesting story and just the story of finding out why were women never part of the story and having played such a huge role in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. So you'll be hearing about that story and you'll be introduced to the speakers in a minute. I just wanted to say a couple of words. One is that I've just joined SOAS but I was here as an undergraduate student and also as a doctoral researcher and also as a fractional and my passion for human rights came through my work here, through studying here and through being engaged in politics and other kinds of conversations in SOAS. So my engagement with the African continent, various places on it and with debates around human rights was shaped by this place and so I'm really really glad that we're able to have events like this and to have these conversations and to have these growing out of engagements with other universities but also our own students in this place taking up these ideas and pursuing them with so much figure and so much interest. I work in international development, I've worked a lot also with people in the UN and I think this whole question about the story of women's engagement in the UN and women's shaping of the UN is one which is very contested and difficult and it's really kudos to you for opening the space and also I think for all of you here who are studying some of these issues for you to go out of SOAS into the world and help to make things change. I was just saying as I came here, I was foraging in my bag for my headphones and I found this which is the Universal Declaration of Human Rights which I actually have in my bag and I'm not religious, I don't have anything like a Bible but I do or a Koran or any other religious document but I'm a bit religious about this. I see it as something my children know what's in it, I talk about it and I see it as something that's an unrealised dream but something that I very much see my own work and my own engagement as working towards. So I just wanted to say fabulous to hear about this, I'm so sorry I can't share tonight, sorry to all of you but thank you very much and I hope it goes really well, thank you. Good evening, thank you for being here this evening. Tonight we are pleased to introduce Dr Rebecca Adami. Dr Rebecca Adami is a senior lecturer at the Department of Education at Stockholm University and a research associate at SOAS University. Dr Adami is a researcher on the history of the United Nations with a special focus on feminist and decolonisation introductory. Dr Adami is currently working on a book with Cape Town University Press at South Africa on Childism and the Rights of the Child with Intersectional Perspective. Sorry I'm just quite nervous today, I've never done this before. This evening Dr Adami is here to show her findings and launch her latest book on women and the university declaration of human rights. Also Dr Rebecca Adami will be launching this book in Geneva and New York on 2018-4. With that I ask you to give your full attention to Dr Rebecca Adami and help me welcome now to the stage and give her presentation. Before that I also want to introduce our other speaker Fatima Sator who is a research associate here at SOAS. Together with her research partner Elise Deutreson they researched the origins of gender equality in the UN Charter and led an advocacy project to promote and give greater visibility to the Latin American women who fought for the inclusion of gender equality in the texts. Their advocacy work has been featured in the Washington Post, the New York Times and the Associated Press among others and following the success of the project a documentary about their journey and the story of birth of lutz has been produced by HBO. A former journalist Fatima is currently deployed as a communication specialist at the UNOCHA in Geneva. She holds a master's in international studies and diplomacy from SOAS and a master's in journalism from the University of Neuchatelle in Switzerland. Please join me in welcoming both on stage. I also want to thank Dan Pleche here at the Centre of International Studies and Diplomacy for inviting me to this event and for his support in historical research that unearths feminist and the colonial tragedies of the United Nations and human rights. I am happy to be presenting today on Human Rights Day with Fatima Satter and we have presented in a panel at United Nations in New York earlier this year, 22 May. We were invited by the permanent mission of Brazil on a panel discussion hosted by only southern delegations. So this research is also being acknowledged within the UN. So there were delegations from Brazil, Colombia, Dominican Republic, Ghana, India, Pakistan and South Africa. And Fatima is a great advocate together with Elise Dietrich Lour in acknowledging the work of Brazilian Bertha Lutz for Women's Rights in the Charter. But before she shares her experiences with you, I will present research that has resulted in a book. And I am delighted that this will be my first occasion after it's now been published by Ruthless Taylor and Francis in October. And you can make order of Women and the Universal Declaration of Human Rights through the SOAS bookstore. And you can also order it through university libraries as course literature and reference literature. So it's then free to read through the libraries. I want to start with a quote from Begum Amid Ali from India who championed Muslim women's right to divorce in the 1940s. This is a quote from when she was interviewed for the UN Women Radio in the late 1940s. Let our women realise themselves that it is we who are the builders. It is we who supply manpower and woman power day after day, year after year, country after country. Do we get any acknowledgement? No. Are countries and governments grateful? No. End of quote. Sounds a little bitter, but very forceful. You see her here on the slide. So what was my motivation for looking into the women who were part of drafting the declaration? Well the universality of human rights has been challenged both in philosophy and political theory as well as by members themselves in the United Nations. Philosophically any list of human rights would be debated as a dichotomy of universality in particularity of cosmopolitanism and nationalism. And post modern thinkers reject the idea of a presumed international consensus on human rights from a relativistic point of view. And in political theory human rights are criticised due to the discrepancy between customary law and national legislation and the idea of human rights for all. And in international diplomacy there is a resistance from many member states to the United Nations against western imperialism. So it has been alleged that the universality of human rights rests upon western imperialism and stems not from shared values but on imposing values from the west. And personally the female political theorists, feminist, post-modern and post-colonial thinkers that I have been inspired by throughout my studies on human rights. Amongst them Judith Butler, Geatary Spivak i'n Chantal Mouff, they have levered a strong critique against human rights as being the rights of the white, western male. But through the archival studies that I conducted at the UN archives in New York in 2014 and at the UNESCO archives in Paris in 2008, I wanted to step out from these theoretical debates and look at the meeting records. And the meeting protocols from UN meetings of the Commission on Human Rights, the Commission on Statutes of Women, the third committee of the General Assembly, as well as the reading memoirs of the women delegates in the UN. And I looked at material from 1945 to 1948. Were there any female non-western delegates at all taking part in the deliberation at the region of the United Nations during the drafting of its two founding documents on human rights. The UN Charter from 1945 that state that the main function of the organization is the protection for human rights for lasting international peace and the Universal Declaration of Human Rights that lists 30 articles of the human rights mentioned in the charter. So, my contribution then, my research faces three myths in the field of human rights studies. First, that feminism is a recent phenomenon. The first woman calling herself feminist was a French woman, Hubertine Eau Clairet, you probably know her, born 1848. But the Latin American female delegates who were part of the drafting of the UN Charter at the San Francisco Conference in 1945 also declared themselves feminists together with Justice Street from Australia. So it's not a recent phenomenon. You can track it even further back. Second, I face the myth that human rights is a notion that was pushed for by western states. The most forceful arguments that I've read for human rights in the post war years came from delegates who wanted this to include people living under colonial rule. Delegates from India who saw themselves as having a responsibility to struggle in this international arena for the emancipation of all people under colonial rule for independence. And three, I face the myth that the assumption that women can be presented in historical accounts as a homogenous group. The most interesting debates on women's rights as human rights were between women delegates and a few of the greatest opponents of including explicit mentioning equality of women in the charter and the declaration were female delegates who represented western countries. There would not be any mentioning of women's rights in the declaration and there would not be a commission on the status of women without the decisions that were being made in San Francisco in 1945. In 1945, when the United Nations was founded, the idea was of creating an international arena for diplomatic negotiations as a means towards lasting world peace. And southern women representatives in the United Nations felt that time had come to include people deemed as non-citizens as human rights bearers. Women, people under colonial rule, former slaves and children to be regarded as political subjects with the man's for social and economic justice. It had taken over 100 years for the American Declaration of Independence and the French Declaration on the Rights of the Citizen to be inclusive of women, something that Bertha Lutz pointed out at the San Francisco Conference. Quote, we worked to obtain rights for women in Brazil for 25 years. Women in the United States worked for 60 years and women in Great Britain for 70 years through the suffrage movements. Why should women have had to do all this work if it was unnecessary? I think if you would look at the laws and declarations of most countries, you would see that every one of them beginning with the Magna Carta down to the Declaration of Rights, the preamble to the American Constitution, etc. You would find that men have never found it unnecessary to make a statement of the rights. So why then would it be unnecessary to make a statement of the rights of women, she asked at the San Francisco Conference. So using the wording rights of men in the UN Charter would not necessarily be interpreted as rights including women. And this was an opposition to Virginia Gildersleeve in the US. Gildersleeve thought that a separate commission with women would be segregating and she opposed this. And I want to historicize this debate between the US female delegate to the San Francisco Conference and the Brazilian delegate. At the time there was a strong opposition in the United States against the Equal Rights Amendment to the American Constitution. Questions were asked as was the full emancipation of women worth sacrificing her protection? Virginia Gildersleeve, the only woman delegate in the US delegation to the San Francisco Conference, was opposed to the Equal Rights Amendment. And her organization, University Women of the World, had openly signed an opposition against it. What would happen to protective legislation for working women with children to the economic protection of home wives if women would be treated on equal terms with men? Would women no longer be supported and protected? This was questions ethologically asked by the opposition from Western women at the time. There was a separate strategy in the United Nations at its founding, the creation of the commission on the status of women. In the wave of democratization, royal empires in Europe had been scattered by the First World War and colonial powers had begun to lose terrain during the Second World War. Women gained political terrain, but only a few had the education, influence and economic means to participate in international politics. At the first session of the United Nations General Assembly in 1946, 17 women delegates to the General Assembly signed an open letter to women of the world. Amongst them was not only Eleanor Roosevelt, but also Marie-Hélène Lefarchaud from France, Minerva Bernardino, the Dominican Republic, Bouddill Bechtrup from Denmark, Ellen Wilkinson from Britain, Edoica Uralova from the Belarusian SSR, and Jean McKenzie from New Zealand. They called upon women to take a more active role in politics and governments. In this letter they wrote, quote, we hope that women's participation in the work of the United Nations organization may grow and increase insight and in skill. To this end we call on the governments of the world to encourage women everywhere to take a more active part in national and international affairs. And on women who are conscious of their opportunities to come forward and share in the work for peace and reconstruction as they did in war and resistance. End of quote. The initial conflict between Virginia Gildersleeve of the United Nations of the United States and Bertha Lutz of Brazil on the creation of a commission on the Statues of Women at the San Francisco Conference continues between the United States delegation and female delegates from Latin America at the outside. And on the set of the work in the United Nations in 1946, United States delegate to the Nuclear Commission Eleanor Roosevelt. She opposes Minerva Bernardinos from the Dominican Republic's suggestion of setting up a sub-commission on the Statues of Women under the Commission on Human Rights. She argues in similar terms as Virginia Gildersleeve that a commission on human rights will adequately cover issues related to women's rights in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. The Latin American feminist representatives continue their advocacy for la comision de la condición jurídica y social de la mujer. This title may better frame the mission in its explicit reference to examining and improving the legal and social condition of women around the globe. Minerva Bernardino meets with Eleanor Roosevelt to explain their motivation, which is enhanced by the experiences at the San Francisco Conference in which Eleanor Roosevelt had not participated. The male delegates to the conference Minerva Bernardino pointed out had outnumbered the female delegates, and not all delegations saw it as evident that women were included in the traditional concept of the rights of men. The Economic and Social Council decides to set up a sub-commission on the Statues of Women under the Nuclear Commission on Human Rights in 1946. Boodil Batur from Denmark says that the Economic and Social Council understanding that experts in human rights were not necessarily experts in the rights of women established a commission on the Statues of Women, which was to concern itself especially with those rights, and they will have representatives to all the meetings in which the UDHR is being debated. The representatives of the sub-commission on the Statues of Women are independent women experts nominated on the grounds of their individual qualifications and with a view to ensuring broad geographic representation. Boodil Batur is elected chair of the sub-commission on the Statues of Women and the other delegates are Weisung Nhu from China, Minerva Bernardino, Dominican Republic. Hansa Metha, India, Marie-Helenle-Fachaud from France, Angela Jördek from Lebanon and Friedrich Kalinovské from Poland. Eleanor Roosevelt is one of the women who has been acknowledged in historical accounts, but there were other women in the Commission on the Statues of Women. There was one other woman and that was Hansa Metha and she becomes a key figure in the drafting of the Universal Declaration. When it comes to the inclusion of women's rights, she is the only female delegate in the commission besides Eleanor Roosevelt and she objects to the use of all men in Article 1, arguing that member states can use this to restrict women's rights rather than expand them. Hansa Metha, who you see here on the picture, was a freedom fighter and advocate for women's rights in India. She had been imprisoned twice for organizing women marches and picketing of UK shops and boycotting strategies against the colonial regime. Hansa Metha recalls in her book Indian Woman, quote, when the call to fight for freedom came it was wonderful to see how women rose to the occasion. I vividly remember women clad in their saffron uniform marching towards freedom, end of quote. The All India Women's Conference founded in 1927 was the organization that succeeded best in representing the diversity of Indian women. As literacy amongst women in India was as high as 98% in the 30s during colonial rule, the conference was initially called the All India Women's Educational Conference and Hansa Metha joins the conference early on, she recalls, quote. It was realized that the educational backwardness of Indian women was due to social evils like child marriages, per die, et cetera, which hampered their progress. Unless these evils were removed there was no hope for their advancement, end of quote. The All India Women's Conference heralds the campaign to pass the Hindu child marriage bill called the Sarada Act. And I want to mention this so that you know that she has an experience before on really pushing for women's rights in very male-dominated arenas. And the question of child marriage was one of the few issues that united the whole women's movement in India. The government responded to the Sarada Act by stating that the proposal should not include Muslim women since the Muslim society was against the act. Muslim women in the All India Women's Conference wrote a petition to the government stating, quote, We speak on behalf of the Muslim women of India and we assert that it is only a small section of Muslim men men who have been approaching your excellency and demanding exemption from the Sarada Act. This act affects girls and women far more than it affects men and we deny the right to speak on our behalf, end of quote. Hansa Metha feels that the women's joint work against child marriage is being compromised by the government. Quote, the billy acid was ultimately accepted was very much watered down. As a result, the Sarada Act was never effective in the prevention of child marriage, end of quote. In 1945 and 46, Hansa Metha is president of the All India Women's Conference. The same years she serves as delegate of India to the United Nations. And as president of the All India Women's Conference in 1945, she has already proposed a declaration of women's rights. So at the adoption of the declaration in 1948, there were still several issues in the text that the Southern Women Delegates were disappointed with. That non-discrimination based on sex had not been repeated in more articles as it is stated in article two of the declaration. That the text used the wording his, I don't know if you read the Universal Declaration, but you see that they used the wording his without adding or her, her under her privacy, et cetera. Three, that it was not stated more clearly that slavery included trafficking of women and children. Four, that there was not a principle of monogamy included in the article on the rights and marriage. And five, that the right to abortion was not more explicitly formulated in the declaration. Having the principle of monogamy mentioned in article 16 on the rights and marriage had been an idea pushed for by Hamid Ali, a Muslim female delegate from India. Another issue that was important for several female delegates was the mentioning of equal rights for children born out of wedlock as they call it. The idea that women are not citizens with their own right to nationality and citizenship that is carried on to their children regardless of who their father might be, which was based on a patriarchal power structure in which women are only carriers of the child of its biological father. Hence, children born out of wedlock without the man taking the fatherly responsibility, then the child would be seen as rights less. And this was something that the women fought against. There had been four women delegates signing the charter in San Francisco in 1945. And in 1948, three years later, four women delegates hold speeches in the General Assembly at the adoption of the declaration. The wording from the preamble of the charter, which states equal rights of men and women for which the Latin American feminists, aliens had advocated, has been enforced in the preamble of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. And even though the Universal Declaration of Human Rights becomes a compromise for the Commission on the Statues of Women, they have still advanced many of their initial concerns. I want to end with a quote from Begum Shays de Kremoula from Pakistan. Quote, but still there is a declaration of human rights, a charter of human freedom. And the oppressed and their champions can at least refer to it when those having seized the reins of power try to trample on the people. The struggle between right and wrong continues. End of quote. It was so difficult to know what parts of the book I was going to share with you because I have so much material. But we'll have more time for questions later. Thank you. Good evening. Thank you for inviting me, Dan. It's amazing to be back here after two years. It's also an honour and very, I think it says a lot to talk about these women and acknowledge them on the day that the UN Charter entered into force on the 24th of October 1945. I will focus, I will tell you a bit more about who were the women who got gender equality in the UN Charter. So 1945. But first let me just show you a video that introduced our research that we have been doing with Elyse Dietrichson, who was also a CISD student. Sorry, just trying to make it. So that was, that's a video that has been produced by the UN Information Service in Brazil. It took us, it took us a lot of time to get this kind of advocacy material. How, I'll tell you a bit more about how everything started. So we were, Elyse and I were master students at the Centre of International Studies and Diplomacy here in Saoas. And our supervisor Dan Plash brought our attention to Bertalut's memoir, who, she wrote that memoir in 1945, so it's around I think five, six pages memoir, which is very vocal about what happened in San Francisco. As international relations students, we just never heard of her name. We heard about Eleanor Norwellswald, we knew about, I mean we were extremely interested into feminism, gender studies, etc. Bertalut never heard of her. So when we started reading about her memoir, we thought that we should definitely take it further. So we went to the LSE Women's Library and started digging more into archives to really understand what really happened in San Francisco in 1945. How did we get Article 8 stating that women, the human rights of men and women, how did we get that actually in the UN Charter? As you know, this is extremely important because the UN Charter is the first international agreement declaring women's rights as a part of international human rights. And it really wasn't easy to get. At first, the original drafts of the Charter, drafted by the US, the UK, the Soviets and China, didn't include women's rights. So when you read the preamble, it was supposed to say the rights of men. So let's go back a bit in time. So we're in 1945 in San Francisco. We have 160 delegates and only four women signing the Charter. There were more women present at the San Francisco Conference. Having four women signing the Charter is quite a big deal when you think that only 30 countries of the 50 countries present in San Francisco had granted women the right to vote. So who were those four women? We had Virginia Gildersleeve, you already heard of, from the US. Wu Fifong, I can say it, Wu Yi Fong from China. Bertha Luz from Brazil, Minerva Bernadino from Dominican Republic. But it's really Bertha Luz from Brazil and Minerva Bernadino from Dominican Republic who fought for Article 8. And when we were researching, it was obvious to us that if it wasn't thanks to the Latin American women, it's really thanks to the Latin American women that we got gender equality included in the UN Charter. So first, not only we had never heard of them, but also they faced huge resistance in getting Article 8 in the Charter. And this resistance didn't come from where we thought it would come from. So I would try not to be too repetitive with what Rebecca just said. But Virginia Gildersleeve, so the American delegate and the British advisors at the time thought that Article 8 was not necessarily necessary as women were not to be excluded from participating in the organization anyway. Bertha Luz really struggled to get Article 8 in the Charter. She was called Lutz Wafa, referring to the official name of the Nazi Air Force, and she passionately argued in a room full of men mostly for the inclusion of the word sex in the Charter, so it read that no country should discriminate based on sex. The British delegation said that adding sex to the text was not needed. To which Bertha replied that this would be recognition of the magnificent work done by the British women during the recent war. That's only when the British had to accept the compliment of women's rights in the Charter. That's the diplomacy at its best. The first proposal for a special commission on women, which became later CSW, can all be attributed to the agency of women from the south. The Prime Minister of New Zealand back then said that the Latin American women of the conference deserve the thanks of the Democrats everywhere, because it is owing to their efforts that Article 8 made its way into the UN Charter. When reading Bertha Lutz's memoir, she tells this interesting story about the first time she met Virginia Gildersleeve, the American delegate. Our first encounter with the American women delegate and British women alternate was neither pleasant nor reassuring. During the tea, she, speaking about Gildersleeve, went to say that she hoped I was not going to ask for anything for women in the Charter since that would be a very vulgar thing to do. Lutz replied to that that the need to defend rights of women was the main reason why the Brazilian government had put her on the delegation. The British and the American delegates were bored and irritated by the repeated and lengthy feminist speech. The Latin American women were called extremist feminists. It was said that there was no need for this militant feminism. British women advisers and Gildersleeve argued that this spectacular feminism might only be necessary in backward countries where women have no vote and few rights of any kind. To which Lutz, who didn't actually contradict the fact of coming from backward countries, she considered herself coming from the global south, noted that it is a strange psychological paradox that often those who are MSC-pated by the efforts of order are looked to acknowledge the source of their freedom. This is something that we still see, that very advanced countries that had women presidents, women prime ministers, think that gender equality is not needed anymore. They take it for granted. That was already the case 75 years ago. That was also something that the British delegate told Berta Lutz back then that gender equality had been already achieved as she has herself achieved position at the King's Private Council. A claim to which Lutz has answered, I'm afraid not. It only means that you have arrived. Another crucial foothold for women's right in the specific mentioning of the human rights of women is the word women in the preamble of the charter. In Gildersleeve's draft, so again the American delegate, so when she drafted the preamble she took out the word women as she believed that human rights of men would be an inclusive enough term. Lutz and other Latin American feminists on the other hand stated that we also know that it has always been held that women have been included in the gender term men throughout the centuries. And we also know that it has always resulted in the fact that women were precluded from taking part in public affairs. And that was also something that Justice Street, the Australian adviser confirmed, saying that when you don't mention specifically women, women lose their rights. Men were also supportive, some men, of Article 8 in the UN Charter. It is thanks to the South African ambassador that the word women was put in the preamble instead of having the human rights of men. It's Bertalud in her memoir says that the British waited until their female colleagues left the conference before supporting Article 8. It shows us that finally you can be, it's more important to be a feminist than regardless of the gender. What really shocked us is that this story is not known at all. And it shows that history is extremely political. The way we perceive our own history is shaped by what we've been told. And the origin of global ideas and values such as gender equality are often credited to Western actors, even though this credit might not always be rightly placed. We're 73 years late in getting history rights, it's not too late. But for me it is still shocking that we still have to, I will tell you a bit more about the advocacy process, I mean the whole advocacy work that we had to do for this research. But we still have almost to harass people to tell them why the story is important, why we need to acknowledge it. If you read most UN books in the city realm, you would never find this acknowledgement. It is said that four women signed the charter and four for gender equality. This is just wrong. Only two of them fought for gender equality. Yes four of them signed it, but only two of them fought for gender equality. And the two others were not only against it, but they did everything to remove women, the word women in the charter. By saying that we had four women signing the charter and fighting for gender equality, we put all women in one basket. So we just take them, we don't take into account the different opinion. And as Rebekah was saying, women are not an homogeneous group and that's something that we should also apply in peacekeeping negotiations in humanitarian affairs etc. And also by doing that we ignored the contribution of the global side in human rights, which is done quite often. And as Sharia says, when good ideas come from outside the West, they are often ignored. So it is therefore so important to give credit where credit is due. To the women delegates of Uruguay, Brazil, Dominican Republic, Mexico and the Australian advisor. So how can we do that? On our side I will tell you a bit about what happened after this research. Elisa and I didn't thought that that was too important for it just to stay in this very tiny academic sphere and we really wanted to get it out there. So we started emailing people, asking them, a lot of people in the UN, asking them if they could do something. And knowledge, have exhibitions and it took so much time. It's only three years after that we're seeing some results. And this story, even though it's been so long, it is still so political. We were in New York recently with Rebekah and Elisa presenting exactly this research. And we gave this talk at the trusteeship council at the United Nations. And I can tell you, I mean before the talk, we were asked not to mention the Western opposition. Because that was really fragile and you know the US will be there and that's diplomacy. So we are still, even that was 75 years ago and we still have to. A year ago we were contacted by a producing company in New York that has been mandated by HBO to do a documentary about this research. So those are the kind of things that will, I hope, change history. And we went to Brazil, we went to New York, London and Geneva to present this research. And in Brasilia we had the chance to visit the National Museum. And there we, there was a lot of archives and actually clothes of Bertard Woods. And it was really interesting because she was wearing a lot of black clothes, long sleeves, a bit like clothes that would make you disappear. And that's something that we still see today where women have to hide just to be heard for their ideas and not to be only seen. So that's something that is still, even for so many decades later, we still have to do that. What we also, I've been researching quite trying to understand how Lutz had such a great impact. And one of the things that she had this amazing network, she knew a lot of people and she was speaking many languages which helped her to build this huge network. And we are right now discussing with the Latin American ambassadors to see how we can leave some legacy. Why do we have to do that? Well, not only this, those kind of, this field is extremely under researched. And what inspired me is that, so I'm from Algeria and I've always been told when I was growing up, not by my direct family, which I'm lucky, but that feminism was a Western concept. Why do you have, and I was always seen as imitating the West by saying I'm a feminist. So when I started doing this research, it made me realize that feminism is a global idea. Really, it allowed me to take this ownership and to explain to people that no, actually it is not a Western concept. And we met, it changed so many lives because we met some Latin American diplomats who were almost crying when they knew this story. Because they, when they go, when they work in the UN and sometimes you have some Western countries telling them what they should do and blah, blah, blah. It's quite sometimes a condescending tone. They weren't, they are able now to say, wait, listen, 1945 you were against gender equality. So don't start telling me that this is what I should be doing. And this is really a source of inspiration. I hope that there are hundreds of young girls who are able to see a new window of opportunity thanks to those stories. That they will understand that regardless of their countries of origin or their background, they can be anything they want. So this is why I'm saying that this shouldn't be an under-research area. We should all be looking for all those Bertaloots out there, really digging into history of our own countries and also from the global south. And that it's true, I would say it's really like that would be our true gift to the next generation.