 Live from the JSA Podcast Studio, presenting Data Movers, showcasing the leaders behind the headlines in the telecom and data center infrastructure industry. Hey everybody, welcome to our podcast series, Data Movers. I'm your host, Jamie Scott-O-Katya, CEO and founder of JSA. Along with my fabulous co-host, top B2B social media influencer, everyone knows him and loves him, Mr. Evan Christel. Hey Evan. Hey Jamie, good to see you. Well, not everyone loves me, but a few people do. But welcome to Data Movers, where we sit down with the most influential men and women of today's leading telco and data center world, supporting the network infrastructure requirements of this new normal. But first, before we dive into the interview, let's talk about some tech news, specifically the color of my hoodie here, which is green. There's just tons of height and progress in sustainability and green technology in the cloud and data center space. Do you think it's more a buzzword or a greenwashing or actual progress? Sometimes I wonder how much is buzz and how much is real progress with sustainable innovation in technology. What do you think? Great question, great question. And I'm gonna go with progress because garsh done it, we're writing a book about it and if this is in progress, then I don't know what is, but... Wait, wait, wait, stop the presses here, you're writing a book. We, it's a multi-author book called Greener Data and it's going to be released on Amazon on Earth Day. So April 22nd, just a few short weeks from now. That is phenomenal. So I kind of understand the premise, but what's the perspective on the book? What are you gonna dive into? I've asked all of our amazing clients and community members, I did sort of a call for authors here and got such a phenomenal response, just industry thought leaders weighing in on how to not just come to carbon neutrality but reduce carbon emissions in our data centers, in our network infrastructure and also, how do we bring back biodiversity? So it's a really wonderful book. I've been in a very fortunate position where I hear from my friends in Finland, I hear from my friends in Hong Kong, I hear from my friends in the middle of the States and I'm hearing all these wonderful creative ways to approach getting more greener in our space. And I was like, guys, we can't just share this as competitive insight. We need to really shout it out and do it immediately. So when I asked folks in December, like let's do a book in April, people are like, can you do that? I'm like, we're gonna find out. So we're finding out. That is fantastic. Well, I can't wait to read the book. We're gonna have to do a special bonus episode on the book. But until then, why don't we get on to our guests? She's a fascinating key player in the data center space. He is, and what a wonderful transition too, because we have, of course, Craig McKesson. He's the chief customer and marketing officer at T5 data centers. And T5 has been writing about sustainability for years now in our space. So Craig, it's an honor to bring you on to Data Movers. And thank you, thank you for all you do in our industry. Thanks so much, Jamie. Devon, it's a pleasure to be here and just excited to be a part of your podcast today. Thanks, Craig. And let's start with a brief introduction. Maybe you can introduce yourself and T5 data centers for those who aren't familiar. Sure thing. Yeah, so again, my name is Craig McKesson. I'm chief customer and marketing officer at T5 data centers. If you don't know T5s, we're really the industry's only full life cycle data center services partner. And what does that mean? It means we're really there from the beginning of the actual development of the data center and working with the customer through the actual interior construction and infrastructure construction. And then even more importantly, there for the ongoing facility management, sustainability and renewable portion of the assignment. And so what we've done is really carved in niche around being that partner that's there with our customers, both enterprise and hyperscale from the beginning all the way through their project. You know, and what you do at T5 is so special. So many, so many beautiful niches that I wanna touch on shortly, but I got to start with, sorry to embarrass you out of the gate, but this is so cool, I couldn't help it. But we found out that you have some experience as a captain in the US Air Force, which sounds fascinating because you were stationed at the Los Angeles Air Force Base, the home of Space and Missile Systems Center. That's correct. That's correct, yes. So I had the privilege of serving the Air Force and really got lucky. I got stationed in Los Angeles, worked as an officer helping launch GPS satellites into space. So I worked on the Delta Launch Vehicle. We always used to like to say for those people who are old enough to remember, it's a little bit like working on the set of Idream Agini. And so you got a chance to be in the bunker with the headset on during the launch, crawling around the launch pad in Cape Canaveral. There's a really unique experience and little did I know at the time, the project that we were working on, as I said, is the GPS system. I was really gonna transform the way we all do business and live on a day-to-day basis. It certainly has. That is fantastic. I would personally like to thank you for GPS. I remember the days of driving around with MapQuest and Matt's in my car and it was a hell on earth. So thank you for that. That was the thing, that was the thing. And so being in LA, they had this thing called the Thomas Guide, which was literally two or three inches thick. And in order to get around, you would go from page B3 to page C7 and you're flipping back and forth. And that's how you did it. And now today, basically you pick up your phone and you're looking to watch. And most of the time, I don't think I can get from A to B without just watching the dot on the car. Kids these days have no idea of the struggle. But so how did that experience then translate into your career path subsequent and then getting into commercial real estate and then data center? Yeah, so it's kind of funny. My first job in commercial real estate after transitioning out of the Air Force, I was actually interviewing with LaSalle partners and was talking to a managing director there at the time. And he looked at me and he said, well, you know, Craig, real estate isn't rocket science. To which I did panic and said, well, that's okay because the base work is ruined. All right. And, and... Mic drop. Yeah. It was basically mic drop. I'm tired. You know, you know, weeks or months later, and after I get the job and I'm starting and we happen to be out and we're grabbing a beer after work one day. And he says, he's like, you know, it's like, I knew I was going to hire you as soon as you came back with that whole work as a rocket scientist thing. And so, you know, it was actually basically it got me the job and it got me to start in the business. Oh, I love that story. And, you know, we sort of teased it up, but I want to get back to it. T5, they do things a little different. And I love that. So let's just get our readers, our viewers a little insight there. So, okay, let's start with two million work hour safety record. Tell us more. Yeah, Jimmy, I mean, we're super proud of it. So I'll talk a little bit about our life cycle services and a big portion of that is our facility management business. And so we not only operate around T5 data centers, but we operate data centers on behalf of some of the world's largest and best companies around the world. We actually operate about 55 data centers and 20 markets around the world today and have grown that team to about 500 critical facilities technicians. And so we're super proud really to take our tag line which is forever on and expand that out to being forever safe, forever on. As we know, I mean, data centers can be incredibly dangerous environments. You're working, you know, around, you know, basically lightning in a box, mega lots of power and just as we pass over the new year, we reach two million consecutive work hours without a last-time accident across any of our sites. And so that is just an incredible milestone. We're super proud of that. It's really important to all of our customers as well. And it's something that we really hang our hat on in terms of our culture, our processes, our training. And we just want the world to know that. Yeah, that's phenomenal. I recall that fire at that data center and company, I won't mention them, but in Paris a few months ago and it was just a terrifying kind of incident. It took days, I think, to get under control. So what makes up a top notch facility management capability? I mean, what are the best practices or what's the special sauce behind what you do? What's your secret? Basically, give it all the way now right here. Yeah, give it all the way. So any good recipe, any good recipe, it all starts with having the great, great foundation. I love to cook and one of the things I learned early on when I started training for cooking was you need mise en place, which means to have all of your ingredients out and ready to go and be ready when the fire is hot, you have it all ready, you can get it done right. And so we really approach facility management the same way in terms of a foundation of training and process and procedure and building a culture around following directions. We recruit and we train the best and we recruit a lot of transitioning veterans, a lot of former people who worked as maybe nuclear technicians, people who understand what mission critical really means. And so at the end of the day, our customers are trusting us with their business. They're basically handing the keys of their business over to us as a data center provider and facility manager. And so you mentioned the fire that happened over in France, that knocked people out, not only put lives in danger but can knock businesses out for an incredible amount of time. And so we take that really, really seriously but it all comes back down to understanding the fundamentals, being trained, being drilled so that when something does go wrong, we know exactly how to go about and mitigate that situation with men and women. And it's funny and I'm thinking about so many military men and women who have been brought into our data center ecosystem world and looking at our processes with that engineering focus being prepared ahead before the fires on the grill. And I think there's a lot to that. It kind of brings me also, I heard a little bit about your project, your newest project serving the US Army Cyber Command in Augusta, can you tell us any more about that? Yeah, JVM, we're super excited about this. So we just announced it a couple of weeks ago but we're in the early phases of launching a 190 acre 200 megawatt data center campus, as you said, located in Augusta, Georgia but even more uniquely, directly adjacent to Fort Gordon which is also home of the US Army Cyber Security Command headquarters. And so we believe it's a, real estate is all about location, location, location. And this site has great access to low-cost reliable power, we've got tremendous fiber connectivity and then the adjacency to everything that's going on on the Cyber Command side really sets it up well to serve the needs of fed cloud, government cloud, any of the hyperscalers who are serving that market to really customize and build whatever type of data center they need. Well, sounds like a great project. But talk as well about expansion in general, we're seeing a tremendous surge in requirements and capacity and explosion in demand. What sort of expansions do you have on the horizon in your locations? Yeah, that's right. I mean, there really seems to be an insatiable demand right now for data center capacity really all over the world. And we're seeing the same thing at T5. We've recently opened a new facility in Chicago in Elk Grove Village Submarket. So we have available condition capacity there. Same thing in Hillsborough, Oregon just outside of Portland. We also have a new facility going up in Silicon Valley as well. So those kind of are really our three flagship facilities. We have another large campus opportunity in Atlanta, Georgia. And then also have an existing campus with capacity in Charlotte as well. And so we have a pretty nice geographic footprint there. And we're really set up to customize needs. We've really founded our business by partnering with kind of the more high touch enterprise customers. Those customers that really understood the meaning of quality and how we can customize their solutions to their needs. We've taken that and expanded it out to larger size requirements. We're working with hyperscale customers now and the cloud customers as well. And so I think really the sky's the limit as we continue to expand our portfolio. Oh my goodness. Location, location, location. Just like you said, those are some key spots. I'll tell you, I can see why expansion is on the horizon for you. Also, I cannot, you mentioned it. I have to go back. I'd be remiss if I didn't, but you went through not only military boot camp, but also culinary boot camp. Wow, the Renaissance man. He mentioned cooking. So I figure it's fair game now. Tell us about the Culinary Institute of America, the other CIA. That's right. What is it like when it comes to whipping you into time? Well, so as soon as I did, I did mention I liked cooking. So in tying this back to the digital economy, my first foray in cooking actually started with an app. And so I think it was an early version of the Mario Batali app. And I was like, how would it cook pasta for a grand light? It was really, really simple stuff. But it ignited this fire inside of me that I decided this creative side and the technical side and it put it all together. And so I took that app and I started to try different recipes and I started trying different things. And I really started to want to really understand the fundamentals. And then I saw that the Culinary Institute of America was hosting boot camps. So it was really a seven-day boot camp at the CIA in St. Helena up in Napa. And it was an absolutely incredible opportunity. It was just an incredible experience, a incredible opportunity. You know, they dress you up in the chef's coat and the checkers and you're in there at 6.30 in the morning with the rest of the students, the CIA. You have your section and basically you're going through every fundamental type of cooking process and understanding how to execute each one, how they're used, why they're used. And then creating a menu and sitting down with all the other students of the CIA and getting critiqued by the different chefs. So that's kind of the boot camp part. And then enjoying a great meal. And then just off it off. You're there in the afternoon, you can go wine tasting and then rinse and repeat. You know, first. So you didn't have a Gordon Ramsay type yelling at you the whole time. This was more laid back than that. Yeah. So they kind of realized that we're hobbyists. They didn't want to scare us away, but it was a fantastic experience. Because again, it really taught us how to approach different things and what technique needs to be used for what type of process. And it's really increased my confidence the whole time in the kitchen. So I was afraid my husband would send me off to this culinary boot camp. And after hearing about it, I'm like, not such a bad man. He's not so bad. He's not so bad. I'll go on the wine tasting part too. Oh, come on, Jamie. You know, you have chefs and personal staff to do all these things for you. My husband wishes. I boil water. I'm like, I can do pasta and that's it, you know. But oh, now let's, getting back to you, Craig. Yeah. I love this part of Data Movers where we sort of do this rapid fire segment. We're, you know, we'll just throw out some crazy wacky, quick questions and you just respond with the first thing that comes to mind. So, okay, talking food culinary. What would be the favorite food that would surprise folks? Question, you know, I think I would have to go with probably paella. You know, it's one, it's incredibly fun to make. Yeah, especially if you do it over an open fire. I do it just over a Kamado Joe or a big green egg. But it's just this interesting mix of great flavors. You know, I grew up in Northern Wisconsin so I like casserole. So this is kind of a Spanish casserole. So, you know, you've got rice and you've got seafood and you've got chorizo and it's just this amazing mix of flavors that comes together. And then even more importantly, it's one of those meals that you share as a group. So it's just, it's one of those things where you can entertain with it and get people together, raise a nice glass of wine and just, you know, really share good times with good friends. Now I got to go search paella on DoorDash. That sounds really good. Favorite holiday to celebrate, I'm guessing one with food involved. Well, you know, it wouldn't be a celebration without food. A holiday without food, right? So that's an interesting question too. And I think this one I'm actually gonna take back to COVID. And so we had relocated to Atlanta just before COVID and formed a couple, basically formed a pod with two other couples, real good friends. And for the holidays this past year, we actually, and it sounds a little bit cliche but we celebrated festive. And we did it with an authentic Festivus poll and we had the airing of grievances. We did the whole thing. So we did the whole Festivus experience just, you know, because it had been two years of a pandemic and everybody cooped up and we just said, you know what, let's just do this. And so I ended up being a heck of a lot of fun. That is absolutely hilarious. Yeah, that's right. Love it. Oh my goodness, I love that. All right, you mentioned you started your love for cooking on an app. So I'm wondering, would this be the app that you use most on your phone or would it be something more business related? I don't know. What's your opinion? So if I look at my phone, it's probably the app that gets used the most and it couldn't be more appropriate but it's my podcast app. Hi. So there you go. So yeah, it's actually spent a lot of time listening to podcasts. It just seems, you know, you can have access to so many different types of information anytime you want it. The real-time access is amazing and the variety and quality is amazing as well. I hope you listen to data movers. Yeah, I'll say, I mean, it all starts with data movers. Yeah. Nice plug. Rewind this section, press play over and over again. Right, exactly. So this next question I have here may be redundant but, you know, with the Super Bowl but what's your favorite sport to watch? I'm guessing football, but I'll let you tell our audience. I'm very much so. So I am a Green Bay Packers shareholder and have been for years and years and years. But I have to say, you know, every four years it has to be current. Because, you know, how can you not watch? If I could guess every sport on the planet, that would be the largest. I would say every four years you have this opportunity, how can you not watch a sport where Ron Swanson can compete for a gold medal? Fair enough, fair enough. Right, I mean, it's just, it's so much fun that, you know, it just, it is, it's gonna, you know, that's the, I guess I'm in the Winter Olympics mode right now. Yeah, pretty good. And you get a lot of these sports that kind of come up that you're not really accustomed to seeing or watching or don't necessarily understand all the rules. And then you start to understand that there are people all over the world that do this and they're focused on it and they're training their whole lives to get to this point. It's really obscure sport. And, you know, it's like, kind of fun to watch. I know, the sincerity, the seriousness on their faces, they're like launching that. Yeah, they're sliding that rock and they're, you know, trying to get it into the house. Yeah, you know, you just have to root for them, really. Exactly, you gotta. I hear you. And how about your favorite sport to play then? So I'm gonna kind of keep the Winter Olympics theme. So I love to ski. I used to ski race as a kid and was actually just, fortunately, I was actually just invited to become an ambassador for the US Ski and Snowboard Association. It was the US Ski and Snowboard team. So I've been involved with them for a number of years. And, you know, again, it all kind of goes back to, you know, supporting the Olympic dream and everything that goes with that. So, you know, I love to ski. And then, you know, like, you know, most guys my age, I've been frustrated by golf for, you know, 40 years. And so, you know, play a lot of golf as well. And, you know, I'm determined, this is my year, right? This is the year I'm actually gonna get better. So we'll see. Fantastic. You gotta draw the line between athletes, military men and women and our data center infrastructure folks. Like, I think there's something there. Like, there's a lot of, you know, former skiers and runners, et cetera, that are part of our industry as well. Sorry. Just drawing that line. Just saying. Yeah, no curling in the data center. You're a technologist, you know, what's one thing you wish was never invented? And then on the flip side, what's your favorite invention of all time? That's an interesting question. Never invented, you know? I appreciate being called a technologist. I also really think that invention is the root of all progress. And so, you know, while I'm sure there are, you know, definitely examples of things that, you know, we all wish probably would not have been invented, there are always things that they either counter those or move things forward. And so, you know, I'm a big fan of just, you know, enabling people to have that creativity and that desire to about and create the next thing. I mean, think about just, you know, over this conversation, we talked about, you know, what's happened just in our work careers? You know, I think back to, you know, the beginning of my work career and helping launch GPS satellites into orbit to where we are today using that technology and what comes next. I could have fathomed that really, you know, back in the 90s when that was going on. And so, what's gonna happen here over these next generations is people continue to push the envelope and continue to invent things, right? I think that's really, at the end of the day, I think that's what really motivates the data economy, you know, what we all do, the industry we're in. And it's that creative vigor, I think that ultimately is gonna, you know, make, bring the world together. It's definitely flattening it out. It's giving people opportunities that they never thought they would have because of this technology. And I think ultimately it's just gonna continue to push us forward. So, I don't have a specific, I know there's a long answer to your question, but that's kind of how I think, I don't think I would say there's any. Fantastic. Well said. Well said. Yes, well, thanks for joining us, Craig. It's been really fun. And from the CIA to the Air Force to Curling to that was quite a tour the force of it. We covered some ground, we covered some ground. We covered a lot of ground and thanks so much for joining us. Thanks for having me. Appreciate it. We appreciate you. And listeners, viewers, if you enjoyed today's Data Movers podcast as much as we did, be sure to check us out, jsa.net slash podcast for upcoming Data Movers episodes releasing every other week, Wednesday mornings. Yeah, be sure to follow us on Twitter at Evan Kerstel and Jay Scato and look forward to connecting there as well. And as always guys, stay safe and happy networking.