 What's going on everyone welcome to a brand new spoiler discussion for Venom. I got a great guest with me today we are discussing this together because we both really like this we don't get why people are really shooting on this film but before we get more into this Griffin how about you introduce yourself man. Hey how's it going it's Griffin here from men versus movies you all probably know be by now um yeah we're gonna be talking Venom and you know what call me crazy but I really enjoyed this film I dug it quite a bit um I understand the gripes with it which I'm sure we'll get in but it's I think people are being a little too harsh on it but I just I'm excited to actually talk about it that's the thing like I want to talk about this movie with someone. That's how I was like right after it in I was like I cannot wait to discuss this film in full spoiler detail yeah and I enjoyed it like I mean that's how it is like of course this is spoilers so like if you haven't seen the film or you just don't give a crap about what's gonna what we're gonna talk about because we're really gonna go into everything like most of this everything that's big on it and so you haven't seen the film back out now or you don't care just yeah but I'll say I think if you're on the fence have seen this film it's harder for me to recommend I think if you're on the fence but if you're interested to go see it go form your own opinion don't listen to that like rotten tomatoes anything because I think this is the one case where they're really wrong to be like yeah I mean I would agree it's definitely I yeah I do I it doesn't deserve a 20 it deserves like more in the 40s 50s even 60 to be honest so last time I checked was right after I got out of the theater he was at a 29 which is actually a lot better than what I thought I was at um well it was lower right it was low I remember yeah I remember when it was at 19% I was just like what the fuck is this the worst movie ever no not really no there's definitely worse it's an interesting thing because I think the intent of the film didn't necessarily translate to most people who watched it or or I I'm sorry I should say most critics who watched it um or maybe they got it and they were just like or got it I don't think there's like not much there's there's not much to not get but it's it's arms I don't even know what I'm saying I'm tripping over my words it's like fucking 11 at night anyways uh it's just whether or not it worked for them and like for me I got what they were going for with the film and it was totally different than what any of us like could have anticipated well I mean when they announced this film did we think it was going to be this no because you you describe it in a very good way and I I want you to describe it in the way that you described it when we were talking before we got on but I mean when they announced I mean it's everyone thought it's going to be R rated and everyone thought it was going to be super serious and it's not it's not and I feel like I would have liked that yeah but what I got was one of the crazy no yeah but you want to know the crazy thing I I don't need an R rated version of this no the only reason to make this film R would be for blood and gore and you got the effect of it without seeing yeah it didn't need to be someone's head being bit off or so yeah no it didn't need to be gory at all it was perfectly violent and and it worked um I described this film as a self-aware dark romantic comedy which is such a weird you know maglamation of just terms but when you watch the film it makes sense yeah I agree with the the romantic comedy part of it is is the relationship between Eddie and Venom which I think unanimously people will say is the best part of the film Tom Hardy is the best part of the film absolutely but like it's also it's got like a dark twisted sense of humor and the film knows it's being ridiculous not not once was it when I was watching this was was I like oh that was is that supposed to be funny like for for me at least I you know all of the stuff that was like questionably funny I thought was intentionally funny like they were they wanted us to laugh at it in a way um which is interesting because I don't think that's the case with some people but yeah I know I I just I thought it was a pretty clever um you know reimagining of the character in that regard while still staying true to the the characterization of Eddie Brock and Venom yeah no and the thing that we mentioned is a Ruben Fletcher directs this he did Zombieland now he did gangsta scar and we're not gonna talk about gangsta scar but Zombieland is a dark comedy in a second it is a very dark comedy and when we saw the trailers for Zombieland it was more funny than it was like it was that dark sense of horror comedy to it and Venom the first trailer was very dark it was very serious then coming out I think both trailers both trailers even like the second trailer was the second trailer had and then it had like weird instances of humor but it and so we were like what the fuck is this humor they trying to be funny but it so happens that that those moments of humor that's actually the tone of the film and I feel like the problem with this movie is the marketing the marketing is the marketing the problem or are they being subtle geniuses and marketing it as something and then slowly you know coming to terms with like the memeyness of the film I I have no idea I feel like Sony saw this movie and they're like we didn't want that but I guess it works it's it's weird man you go look at it you look at one of their twitter accounts the the eddie's club house account which is just a complete meme page and I'm like that's kind of what the movie is so maybe they are doing this right and I that's where I kind of wish they would have marketed it to again that's I tweeted that Venom is the Venom film that I never knew I wanted and needed and that is perfectly what I because I didn't know I wanted this kind of version of Venom but I got with this version and I really appreciated it there's moments to it that are bad but I mean before we get into our big moments that kind of like annoyed us let's just discuss our favorite moments like what are some of your favorite moments in here man that just fall on say it oh yeah for sure I mean I think the the the time the moment that we've seen in the trailers a bunch of time where he first turns into Venom and he's like oh eyes longs pancreas that was great yeah I mean that whole sequence the motorcycle you know I will say the I think the action sequences in the film are actually really good they're they're done well they're they're fun especially the motorcycle chase yeah that was actually really done like I was on the end of my seat like I felt like it was cool seeing it was a nice adrenaline yeah no for sure it was it was a nice you know it was a well done action sequence capped off by you know Venom's final introduction um when he's in full form and then he obviously bites the guy's head off which is funny but and I'm surprised how much they actually show like obviously there's no blood I mean they literally show his head like yeah you see without blood going through like when the arms get changed like it was cool seeing like all these different things and you know that's that is one of my favorite moments when he finally goes full Venom yeah and I'll say before that though when he first speaks to Eddie oh in the bathroom screams that was hysterical dude my feet are saying they erupted I was like this is fucking phenomenal the ones that happened with my friend turned to my turn to each other and we're like we know what we're in for like a second he just gets knocked out oh my god I know well it's it's like the movie has this like the beginning of the movie is is very like uh what you think it's going to be and then once he gets the symbiote and especially I mean everyone's been saying this but especially the uh the restaurant scene with the lobsters which is is just sanity it's bonkers but it's great mind-blowing insanity um like that's when the movie switches into gear and it's like holy fuck this is incredible I knew it's where that my audience was not laughing at that scene I mean I was yeah I was the only one laughing dying dude like I just love how he starts grabbing all the food got the inner mylog going he's all sweaty he like he lays down in the water he gets he like climbs into the lobster like take like what the fuck a lot of this movie I mean you see from um interviews is is Tom Hardy being given so much freedom to do whatever he wants as an actor and um you know improvise a lot which I think it worked in the movie's favor I would say and to be honest I I think like when I saw him on the red carpet he seemed a little annoyed but I I think he's annoyed of how people are taking the film like I think he is he's probably honestly happy with the film I'm gonna be I think he is I think well because I saw in like several you know press junk and interviews he was actually having fun with the interviews which is odd which is different for him because yeah he's very serious and mellow and in these he was like having fun I guess because he had fun with the film or whatnot well and he also did the film for his son yeah which I get in and we'll probably talk about talk about this later but I think the target audience for this film is that like middle school to high school range and so with everything going on in this movie I actually think they succeed in doing that no I'm with you on that but yeah I'll try to think of other favorite I mean really anytime it was just Eddie and Venom interacting it's just one of my favorites was a running gag earlier in the film where he comes home with his apartment and uh you hear the guitar going and he just goes like it's all mad and then it goes back to when he was Venom and he just fakes on the door his face just changes the guy's like yep fuck it bye thanks no that was the other running gag that I like um or maybe it's not a running gag but it was something that was brought up a few times was when he he basically called um Eddie a pathetic loser and then later on when they're in the woods he's like yeah on my planet I'm a loser I'm a loser too and I was like it's it's delivered much better than the way they're relationship really worked but like you said like there it's a romance in a weird romance but I said in my initial review that their character arc their character were like their their their character arc both of them works so well and you believe where it goes that by the end of the film you're like these two are best friends now yeah it's my I and I grew with everything everything you said my only slight gripe with that is that I think they needed a little bit more time together and this actually is a is um probably my biggest negative of the film is I think it is a little too rushed like this like everything feels like it's going really really fast and in a good way but also um the side effects that come with that is that we don't necessarily get some more intimate it's a short movie you know emotional yeah it really is and the time flies by I will say I did not think I was in the theater for slightly under two hours but well and I look on IMDB it says it's an hour 56 it easily feels like an hour and a half I I could have honestly gone for another 20 minutes with them yeah everything feels like it just kind of like happens fast and so I don't think the pacing was necessarily the best but I also appreciated the brisk nature of it because I think that makes it more palatable for wider audiences they don't have to you know sit through two hours and 20 minutes of a venom movie I think maybe if this film had been in like the 210-215 range with a little bit more um like like a sprinkling in some more scenes between venom and eddie and adding more to their dynamic because I think this film oh well I think this film falls on a lot of the character development not for eddie particularly but a lot of the other characters where I could give two crap I Michelle williams resolve matter fantastic but I didn't care about them at all I would say even venom suffers from it a little bit because when he when he makes the decision to actually stay on earth I didn't it was very abrupt it was very abrupt it like I got it because of the time he spent with eddie but I feel like they didn't hammer that home enough um I could have used maybe another 10 minutes with them maybe like maybe just a scene of them sitting around where this is kind of weird to throw this into it but it kind of remind me of like the power rangers movie that came out last year one of the best moments about that film was when they were sitting around the campfire talking and sometimes those campfire scenes that they have in movies don't work the best but I think venom needed a campfire scene where they're just talking yeah not just some interaction it's going to be a legit discussing with each other because we get a couple moments but we never got that one moment where like like I mean venom knows a lot about eddie brock because he's inside of him you could like infer like oh okay so he's because he knows eddie and and whatnot but I'm like well we didn't see it so it's it's harder for to buy into it but yeah I mean like you said Riz Ahmed and Michelle Williams are not they're they're kind of just there and I they're definitely phoning in it especially Michelle Williams yeah she didn't let's talk about riot though let's talk about riot I thought riot was cool um I wasn't a huge like it was interesting because I think I feel like Riz Ahmed would I mean he was very much the mustache twirling stereotypical yes absolutely corporate villain um and I think we all knew that going in that he was going to be like that but where he could have set the character apart is in his performance and for a guy who usually plays pretty charismatic characters I think he didn't he didn't um you know he wasn't as charismatic as he probably should have been like he he should have been more of like a colorful maglemaniac um to kind of combat like Tom Hardy's enthusiasm and charisma and it would have been a really interesting dynamic between the two of them and and they have great scenes together but I don't think that Riz Ahmed ultimately lands and then a lot of his motivations kind of get lost in the shuffle yeah no I agree I I think to be honest I think you could have easily written out Michelle Williams character too um definitely yeah I mean literally her only purpose was the press buttons I wouldn't say that but come on every time the sounds every time yeah I would say the biggest reason she was there was to make Eddie be in San Francisco you know yeah instead of New York because I know there's a comic run where Eddie goes to San Francisco but he already has the venom with him when he goes so it's completely different but and um obviously I'm sure Sony was like we can't have this in New York because everyone's gonna be like we're spider-man so so but I love those little things there's a lot of nuanced things in there um one of the best scenes in the film though and I know we could probably talk about later but I want to bring it up now as the end credit scene I absolutely think that was one of the best scenes in the whole film the way it was filmed the way it was brought about and of course it's Woody Harrelson's carnage or cleat is Cassidy which is cleat is Cassidy yeah I want to ask you do you think he has carnage within him already I'm saying yes oh you think you think he's already carnage I think he already has carnage I don't think he is I think it's just really it's just introducing us to yeah it'd be a little too I I mean he's he's a serial killer in maximum security prison and he just randomly gets the symbiote like well I I don't know like yeah it is weird but it felt weird to me why would he ask for only Eddie Brock that that's like where I kind of was I think because of just his fame level maybe like he's like a notable investigative reporter which I love that he had his own TV segment I like that too awesome I like that he didn't just work for a newspaper stand like he was legit like on TV and I really like Tom Hardy is seriously one of the best actors in the Hollywood like he is yeah he did so well with material where I think if any other actor needed the material no he didn't like I mean that's one of my issues the script is not the best and no it's not it's just but he made a lot of those development and interactions with everyone work well like with the the doctor boyfriend like every scene had with him was just funny and yeah no I I dug that a lot um but going I mean you want to talk about great casting choices going back to Cletus Cassidy I first of all we all knew it was coming but I think it was inspired casting two um perfect new brief moments we get with him like I was creeped out like this dude was a fucking sadistic psychopath and I wanted to I was surprised to see the curly hair I didn't think they were gonna go the red curly hair I'm brilliant yeah and it worked like just I mean Woody Harrelson's again one of the best actors in Hollywood so when you get him like I remember when he got casted and everyone's like oh who's he playing I'm like are you stew he's playing Cletus like if he doesn't play Cletus Cassidy like that it's a waste I do think there would have been an easier way to I mean if he I think it would have been easier to just say he was one of the people there that's how I actually thought they were going to intertwine him is like he was one of the patients yeah I thought that would have been easy and I was surprised not to see other versions of the symbiote obviously we saw two other ones but I was surprised we didn't see um I was I was theorizing that we're going to see toxin and scream for ever since the trailers I thought scream we would see um we didn't though so I I don't know maybe maybe they kind of like alluded to them a little bit just with the different color symbiotes but yeah I mean we didn't see them I I don't I don't think they were necessary I didn't want like too many weird yeah and I didn't want either I think one more would have worked for me like just something in there else because but honestly I think the best action sequence for me is when he comes outside he has his hands up and the swats are just the one that yeah the yeah I wish I didn't see the clip I wish I didn't see the clip really yeah I wish I would have been surprised by it I don't think it affected me too much but I I do agree that that that sequence was was awesome I mean you know one of the other funny moments was um when he's in the apartment Tom Hardy just throws his arms up and then all the point of guns Venom's like what are you doing what are you doing put your hands down that's the thing it's it's kind of insane because Tom Hardy has excellent chemistry with Tom Hardy yes it's just like the in well we get that from legend we got that from legend right which I think he kind of expanded upon a little bit in here because they're two incredibly different personalities yet yes they like they feel like they're being played by different people like everyone was like oh it's the guy who voiced uh Kratos and God of War who's doing the voice no it's Tom Hardy playing off of himself and doing a damn good job I mean he feels like his whole persona like it's he's like a schizophrenic person but he's actually not schizophrenic and he plays into that uh split personality thing beautifully like absolutely so good and that was one of the things I was really happy to see in the trailers earlier on where it saw them talking because that's one of my favorite interactions with them in the comics where I just love that they have this connection that I'm glad they elevated that I again that's the best part of this film and I think that's where we can kind of start tying this up is I want another Venom film I want another one I want them to expand the Sony universe yeah I I was left with an appetite for more weirdly enough and I was someone who was like okay which I'm sure Venom wants more too he fucking eats everyone yeah he wants he wants your heads which I was worried that that was going to be an annoying gag another gag in there won't fast is when he tells him well let me eat all their heads and just push me the corner yeah that was fun like this move like come on guys seriously if you don't watch this movie and you're like that movie totally knew what it was doing yeah I mean dude I had my review up and I already have 10 dislikes on it so thanks guys how many likes uh 23 damn and 10 this is all those lady gaga fans I know which I gave lady I wish I gave a fucking movie a star is born in a plus so you want to know something crazy I would I think a star is born is a better film and it's gonna be loved it's a masterpiece but I almost want people to just go see Venom because I want to like just people talk about it because it's so weird yeah and I actually support that's like different yeah and again I think this is a film do not let the critics stir you like you don't go make your own yeah go make your own opinion because it is bonkers and crazy as we're making it sound it does work in the movie it really does like yeah and it shouldn't how much I saw one of the new uh advertisements for it and it says two tongues up I give it two tongues up to give it two fucking tongue tongues up thumbs yes we're giving it no um but going back to your point on the the sequel yeah I I hope we do get a sequel and I hope eventually he can come into a spider man film I don't want him in the MCU per se but I want him to interact with spider man and so do you want to interact with Tom Holland or a different type of spider man no no no like like Tom Holland Spider-Man like I would love it if in the third you know homecoming film he was introduced in in there but I like and that's it and that's the extent of his involvement in the MCU just in a spider-man film because I don't he doesn't need to be in Guardians he doesn't need to be in the rest of it like I don't I don't want to see him interacting with which that's one of my complaints with the spider-man film so far is that they're so intertwined into the MCU have all these other people like far from home looks great I mean you're going in Jake Gyllenhaal's Mysterio awesome but Nick Fury Maria Hill went with Petra I was supposed to be in it like I don't I don't want them I I just want spider-man like that's I want a spider film I don't want an MCU film you know I'm saying which is one of the biggest things that one of the biggest refreshers of venom is so so I yes and I miss those type of films I miss when we get a superhero film that doesn't have to tie into a whole world and it don't I love cinema universe I think it's a cool concept but it's nice it's a nice refresher and it's kind of I know they're making this Morbius film I don't want Morbius to tie in make it a self-contained please and tie it in later if you want to but just make it self-contained now I don't care but I would rather have another venom film that I would I feel like honest to God Sony could just just go making venom films and maybe have him run in with some spider-man films or something let me let me say this please please I think Sam Raimi knew Venom too he yeah I mean it could work he does that horror comedy aspect and that's where Venom also had those horror vibes to it and they worked they work it really felt like this film is the perfect mesh of a spider-man film but mixing in like army of darkness and then just the absurdity of it maybe crazy stupid love and a little bit of blue valentine sure all right just just pull right as obscure films and mesh them in there I'm just gonna say that it's a dark comedy that's self-aware and if you go in expecting that I don't think you'll be disappointed um Tom Hardy is incredible as always he proves himself to be one of the best actors in the game because he elevates very subpar material always this means war one of the I like the film just because it's fine I don't have a problem with it I like Venom more weirdly yeah absolutely I will say this this movie is very much a pre MCU Marvel film and going back to what we were talking about it how it was so refreshing to get that I I think Sony has kind of nailed their target demographic and like the vibe for what they're going for very much like young adult um you know teenagers who want to watch like I don't know just like something hardcore but it's not hardcore you know what I mean like exactly yeah it's that perfect match so there's definitely a market for it yeah oh yeah so you and me are pretty much in the same category on this um after this discussion I would bump my rating up a little bit um because I give it a C and I think I put it at a C plus uh C plus B minus um might change when I see it again I might get it up uh but what would you give the film overall uh on your you do a through F right yeah yeah I give it a B I honestly gotta give it a B purely on entertainment um yeah and I mean like I think it's more of a guilty pleasure but the same sense as we're talking about I'm like you're right like this is not like people aren't just getting it and I get that and I think there is for me it is a guilty pleasure but I get what you're saying completely I mean I I'm probably insane and it probably should be considered a guilty guilty pleasure for me but I genuinely walked out of it I was like because you me were memeing the fuck out of this movie like you me we're talking about like we're going to be a masterpiece I was wholeheartedly like ready to accept this film for being so bad that it's good but I walked out of it and I was like it's good because it knows what it wants yeah so I I liked it for that and I loved a lot of aspects about it I hope we get a venom too please guys go check out venom with you yeah please go see it give it give it your money I think it's worth formula your opinion even if you end up coming out and don't liking it I think a lot of us will agree Tom Hardy was perfect as venom as perfect as Eddie Brock I don't see any other would you have wanted any other actor to play Eddie Brock I I can't picture any other actor after seeing this film I don't know the only other person who I could come to mind is Jake Gyllenhaal and he's playing that's what I was thinking yeah I was like Jake Gyllenhaal I think could have pulled off that weird wacky tone too yeah but I think Tom Hardy did excellent job as Tom Hardy or as Eddie Brock but he was great and this is one of the first films with him where his accent didn't like when he does his American voice it didn't feel weird he wasn't grunting he wasn't it's one of the first roles where he was like he wasn't he wasn't just making weird noises and he didn't have his face covered the entire film no in fact I would say we see more of Tom Hardy's face than we do with Venom's face yes absolutely which I like I think one other thing I would have liked for Venom I would have liked to see the cinematography a little bit more brightened up I would have liked to see a little bit more some of the things were a little bit dark but absolutely Venom was a surprise to both of us you and me were about to beam the hell out of this movie and it turned out to be better than we thought so yeah guys tell us what your guys thoughts were on Venom comment down below and tell us what your favorite moment was that that's what we're gonna go about favorite moment yeah there's there's a lot I think that that that dinner scene with the lobster was like probably my favorite or the one with knocking on the door and that rock guy but uh Griffin where can they find you yet man yeah so you can uh go follow me on twitter where i'm bashing the live action disney remakes uh at griff schiller or at men versus movies you can also subscribe to the men versus movies youtube channel i just search it up it should be the first one that comes up we're doing you know a bunch of podcasts award season shows uh movie reviews i'll probably have a review for this up by the time you're watching this so you can go check that out or you could just listen to this because i've already conveyed my thoughts um but yeah no uh go go check it out if you're interested yeah so thank you so much for joining me griffin those are nice discussion um but guys seriously make sure to hit them up hit his subscribe go check out his video review because it's gonna be a little bit more entertaining there because we're gonna have to not spoil that type of thing so uh but can we get around it can we that's the choice yeah but guys thank you so much also hit up sandwich on films also down below if you guys are wanting to check out some movies early or check out some other movie news and movie reviews but guys of course until next time you guys all stay classy and have a great rest of your day and of course remember we are venom