 You're listening to the Naked Bible Podcast. To support this podcast, visit nakedbiblepodcast.com and click on the support link in the upper right-hand corner. If you're new to the podcast and Dr. Heiser's approach to the Bible, click on New Start Here at NakedBiblePodcast.com. Welcome to the Naked Bible Podcast, episode 200 on the layman, Tray Strickland. And he's a scholar, Dr. Michael Heiser. Here we are, Mike. 200. Can you believe it? Should I be honest? Not really. But here we are, nevertheless. It seems like we were just at 100 and here we are at 200. It's amazing how time does not stop, I'll tell you. Yeah. No, that's what I was thinking. You know, like, how in the world? We were just at 100. What are we doing here? You know? Yeah. And I keep thinking, you know, I'm going to add cute sound effects and do all kinds of cute things for 200 and, you know, it just sneaks up on you and, you know. I can record Maury like snarling or, you know, he does do that. Yeah. He tries to act ferocious. We could do that. Yeah. I don't know if I say something you don't like and then we can just put the snarl in there. Yeah. Yeah. We need to come up with something, but I mean, again, we haven't missed a weekend yet. So hats off to you, sir. We keep cranking them out. So we appreciate everybody. Well, we've been close a couple of times, but it's come together. So. We appreciate everybody still listening to us. So that's probably the greater achievement right there, you know, but it needs the lion share of attention. The people who actually listen and they stuck with us. Yeah. That's kind of our theme. We again thought it would be good to interview people who use the content. I mean, this podcast represents three continents. You know, we're going to hear from groups and people all over. The Middle East, you know, Africa and Europe and just everywhere and it's crazy. Yeah. Yeah. Middle East, Africa and more specifically in Europe, Albania. I mean, who in the world thought, you know, that we, I mean, did we ever sit down and have a conversation tray like, boy, we need to do this podcast because people in Albania are going to be listening. You know, we just get people all over the world, but the Albanian group is pretty special and we're going to get into why in this episode. Absolutely. Without further ado, Mike, let's just get into these interviews. Okay. Well, we have with us Charlie Curtis and I'm going to let Charlie introduce himself in a moment, but he has a connection, of course, to our content, the book Supernatural, Unseen Realm, the podcast and whatnot. And Charlie does ministry in Tanzania and one of the translation projects for Supernatural has been in the language of Swahili with a translator on that end in Tanzania, but he and Beth have gone over to Tanzania and done ministry there teaching the content. So that's the connection to us and to the show. We wanted to have him on to just describe what it is happening over there. The, you know, the reception of the content, you know, how it's affecting people, what he does in terms of ministry, that sort of thing. So Charlie, go ahead and introduce yourself and we'll we'll chat about what you do. Again, this Charles Curtis I've been involved with our team from our local church that has that had started a relationship with a church in Africa in 2009. We had someone who was really big into missions in our church was asked to go to Africa to check out what was going on. There was a minister that had contacted our pastor and told us that, you know, we needed to look into that. So he went on his own in 2009 and was amazed at what he saw and came back and suggested that our church organ and organize a mission trip there, which we did with about 20 people from our church went out in the summer of 2010. And since then we've gone every year since then. I think there was only one year where I think we brought some folks from from there over here. But we've we've developed a very close relationship with the people there that we're working with in Tanzania. And in particular, our our work there is in partnership with a church in the Kilimanjaro region. The name of that church is Pepha and forgive me if I don't say it completely right, but it's the Pentecostal Evangelic Fellowship of Africa. And the the pastor in that particular church is Elieta Mbisa. And together our church and and Elieta have both done coordinated lots of ministry towards orphans and widows in the Kilimanjaro region. And beginning in 2013, we began work on a church plant in a Muslim village on the east coast of Tanzania, a region called Tonga. It's just outside of Tonga City. And the name of the the village is Maswani Shamba. And that church has been completed. And right now from the emails that we've been receiving, the church has been providing lots of ministry and care in that community for the past couple of years now is beginning to grow. In addition to that beginning in 2013, Elieta had told us that there was a hunger to know more to learn more. And were there was there any possibility that teachers could come to Tanzania and provide education or teach biblical teaching to pastors in both the Kilimanjaro region and eventually it was in the Tonga region as well. We started that in 2013 and initially our pastor was supposed to head that up. And unfortunately he he was battling illness at that time and couldn't go and had asked if I would take his place. And that was in 2013. And we did the conference on the differences between Islam and Christianity. And we had about maybe between 80 and 100 pastors in attendance in both locations. And these pastors just for a little background, they come from very remote areas. The one thing I have learned about the people of Tanzania, particularly within the church is their hunger to know more about the Bible is like nothing else I've ever seen. And they will hitch a ride, spend the night wherever they can find a place to lay their head on very long travels to get to these conferences. So it's a little dawning whenever you get out there to know that and hope that you pray that you do a good job. But the conferences in 2013 were very successful and they called us back. And in 2015 we did a conference in both locations over the kingdom, the kingdom of God. And it was really driven mainly by Dallas Willard's Divine Conspiracy. And in 2016 we revived the first conference on the distinctions between Christianity and Islam. And again, I think all three of them were were relatively the same attendance. Pretty successful as far as the desire for materials. Everybody when you go out there, they want to have your slides. They want to have references, whatever they can get their hands on. So this year, the need is always driven by the folks in Tanzania. And we've been asked to go out there and really handle two requests. One is that when Beth went out and introduced the concept of the Deuteronomy 32 worldview or the Divine Council worldview, their interest was peaked to say the least. And now, of course, the book has been translated in Swahili and it's available to them to read. They want to know more about it, but they're also wanting a practical aspect. How do we take the Deuteronomy 32 worldview and apply it in our churches, our specific churches? And in particular, one of the things that they specifically said is we want to know more about how to grow our churches deeper rather than bigger. And so I think that there's a lot of harmony between the Deuteronomy 32 worldview and the Kingdom worldview, like the one we did in 15 with Willard's book. And I think that right now what we're working on is putting together the slides and looking at going out in June to present it in two locations again, the Kilimanjaro region and also in Tonga. Now, when Beth went out, were you along with Beth or did she do that herself? Last year, Beth went out there. I didn't go. I've gone to Africa three times with her, but last year I did not go. Yeah, I know from corresponding and chatting with her on the phone that there seem to be, I mean, maybe it's just Beth. She can be pretty dramatic. But there seem to be a pretty dramatic response to it. And that actually led to or was part of the, hey, we heard about the translation project that I guess she had mentioned it or something. And so someone emerged from that community or that gathering anyway, Donald, to do the translation. So what are your impressions of what she has talked to you about? And sort of since that initial kind of orientation, very specifically with Divine Council stuff, I guess our audience would probably be curious as to was this old? Was this new? Could they sort of see with more clarity than typically lots of Christians over here you introduced them to the content and they just look at you like you got two heads or something? Was there a difference there? So tell us a little bit about that. Sure. And before they left last summer, I asked her for a copy of her slide. So I got to see the content that she was going to be using and I was really excited, really wished I could have been there. But when they came back, the way Beth had described it was, is that just the response was amazing. It sounded like it was a whole lot more, a whole lot more than than what I've I've ever seen over there. There's always been an insatiable hunger to learn for, you know, the stuff that we've the subjects that we've talked about. But in this particular case, I don't think that I don't think it was familiar to them. I think in that regard, they're a lot like us here. But they were just like a aha moments forum in lots of ways. And I could not explain that to you that well, because not being there, I'm just sort of reporting, you know, what I was told. But I know, I know this that the books that were brought out there were were in high demand. Yeah, I can't remember how many I sent out, but I remember sending some out. Yeah, their their appreciation for that from what I was told was amazing. And they wanted more, you know, and I think that's the context for this year's trip. Yeah, I mean, I've presented Divine Council stuff before with an I remember one particular place in San Diego. This was years ago. This is before I even had completed the the myth that was true draft that would become, you know, or at least in part become unseen realm. And there were five or six pastors from Africa at this event. And afterwards they, you know, I mean, they were really excited about it. They were excited because it's like finally, you know, we hear somebody over here say, Well, we more or less just experience all the time, you know, and, and, you know, to them, it was they it was more like a grateful response that somebody finally said something as opposed to being new. So I was curious, you know, because I've I've had the other side as well, that this is sort of Christian stuff one on one. Yeah, as far as believing, you know, that that the supernatural is real, and then it you run into it, you know, and they were like, Yeah, like, we don't go a week without having to deal with something, you know. So I was just curious, you know, what the, you know, what that was like. One of the things that whenever I go over there, they they really show me, they teach me a lot, I tell them that and it sounds kind of a little cliche, but they really do because whenever we go over there, there's, there's always a time whenever someone falls sick, they have, you know, someone will get malaria, or maybe they just whatever the whatever the case may be. And over here, we're just so accustomed to being able to just, you know, go to the doctor or get hold of some medication, you know. And over there, they rely so heavily on prayer. It's an immediate response for them. And, and so for them to see God intervene and, and answer prayers is not something that's like over here, we see that too. But over there, it's sort of like that's that's the sort of like taken ibuprofen for us for them and the Holy Spirit heals them from whatever they were suffering with. It's a little more, there are a lot more open in anticipation of what God's going to do. Whereas I think here we're so relying on technology and medicine and everything else that it's it's a whole lot different for us. Now, what's the language situation over there? How many speak English? Is everybody speak English, you know, 80% 20% what what's the deal there? Yeah, I would say it was over 50% speak some English. So, you know, whenever I'm at a conference in the past, there would be some that would know a little bit of English that would struggle. But you'd be surprised at how many do know English and know it very well. Well, you know, I guess we can we can task you with something. I mean, if you're going to go over in June, you know, they they've got the Swahili translation now, make sure that they understand they can do whatever they want with that. They can print it, they can, if they have digital devices, or they take it into the city, I mean, whatever it, it's it's free, it's they can do whatever they want with it, reproduce it as often as possible, that sort of thing. What I'd like you to ask them what what other kinds of things specifically they they need in terms of of content or anything. I mean, we're going to be doing some discipleship stuff this year, you know, written content and then put putting that out to translators. So, I don't want to reinvent the wheel if they already have things like that, you know, from some other ministry in the past, in their case, but it would be nice to know, you know, what a group like that really needs. Both to use themselves and then to disseminate and multiply and so on and so forth. I know that you mentioned discipleship. That is a big, that's a big thing. They would, they would definitely like whatever was available for that topic. Try to narrow it, you know, like, like, again, topically, because when, you know, I, I don't want to be silly here. But when we think of discipleship, again, this is just, this is my own context, you know, growing up as a Christian, discipleship meant getting material on, okay, you should read your Bible, you should pray, you should come to church, you should tithe, you should get baptized, you know, that was, that was kind of, that was discipleship. You know, after that, it's show up and listen to the preaching, which of course, if the preaching is good, that that's great, you know, that that's really helpful. But it would be nice to know if there's like some specific issue or, you know, something really that's kind of a sweet spot over there that they, they just run into all the time or really struggle with that sort of thing. So if you can do a little fishing, that'd be great. Sure. Sure. I do know that, and it's similar over here, but discipleship in terms of that, what they've witnessed a lot of is, they're such a focus on the emotional part of it, the experiential part of it, but they recognize that, you know, just like we're beginning to recognize over here that there needs to be more than that. There needs to be, yeah, I know I have to be a disciple of Jesus, but what exactly does that mean? What does that look like? I think, I think that is, that's where they're at. Yeah, it might be as simple as that, you know, okay, beyond this emotional stuff or this feeling I get, or, you know, again, I don't want to be too pejorative, but I have American Christians here in mind behind, you know, the sort of the warm fuzzy feeling that, you know, I get when I listen to the worship band, I mean, what, and I'm here every week, what am I supposed to do? What's this supposed to be? I'm covering everything on the list here, and I don't get it. What's the deal? Yeah, yeah, yeah, okay, so it seems to be pretty basic and pretty broad then, but if you run into anything specific, let us know. I have one more question. When Beth brought, you said, she exposed them to the podcast, I imagine she had a device with like MP3s on it or something, so it wasn't something they could tune into or was it, you know, like, what is the, I know we wanted to have Donald on with us and the government over there just shuts the electricity off randomly and it's very unpredictable, so that didn't work out, but beyond the electricity problem, the unpredictability of that, what is the technological situation like? Do people have phones? Do they have, you know, like art, do they have Walkman, you know, like from the 80s or something? What's going on over there? Basically, most of their internet is wireless from the cellular provider and it's spotty, you know, as you can imagine, the town it's pretty good, but the speeds are not like the speeds we get here. Everybody pretty much carries a bag. Remember those old Nokia phones from the, that there's a lot of those, but according to folks that went last year, you know, some, the smart phones are making their way in that area, so, but there's no, there's no wireline anything when it comes to broadband, so we rely on wireless or anything else. I'm just wondering if we put episodes on a, on a flash drive, you know, and you took it over there and then they could, they could copy them from desktop to desktop, you know, is that worth doing? I think so. Definitely. I think so. Okay. Well, you know, we'll just plan on getting that to you and you can reproduce it, you know, however you're able to do that. Well, I'm glad you could give us a little, little report about the fact that Supernatural, especially the book, but more generally the divine counsel stuff, you know, is, is penetrating that part of Africa. I mean, we, we have listeners all over the world. I mean, we, you know, I'm trying to, you know, both get emails from people who catch the podcast in, in the oddest places and circumstances. So, you know, when, when, since we had a translation project going, you know, with, with, you know, someone you have immediate contact with, and of course, knowing that you do this, we wanted to have you on just so that you could share a little bit with the, with the podcast audience, and so that they can know, you know, this kind of stuff is happening and this is not an isolated thing. You know, we've got over 20 translation projects. I mean, half of them are done now, but this sort of thing is happening everywhere. And, you know, we also talked to some people in the Middle East. Again, we can't really be more specific than that. And we have another interview set up for Eastern Europe, but this sort of thing is happening all over the place. So we just wanted to include Africa. So thanks for spending a little bit of time with us. Oh, it's my pleasure. I appreciate it. Well, we're fortunate to have Donald Mamari and Donald, you'll have to correct me if I'm saying your last name incorrectly. We're fortunate to have Mari. Mari. Okay. We're fortunate to have Donald with us. He is online with us from Africa. So why don't you introduce yourself a little bit? Where are you at and what you do? Okay, my name is Donald DiMari. I am from San Jiu in Kilimanjaro, Tanzania. I'm a secondary school teacher. Currently, I'm doing my master's degree in educational management at Tomain University, Makomira in Arusha, Tanzania. Wow. What do you teach? I teach English. Okay. Well, then you were the perfect person to translate Supernatural. Donald is our translator, our Swahili translator for my book Supernatural. Sure. Yeah. So thank you for doing that. That was a lot of work. Thank you for that. Thank you also for giving me this important task. Well, we'd just like to chat a little bit about, I guess, the impact that Charlie and others have had in ministry out there and you yourself and how the kind of teaching in the book has been received. So you can tell, can you tell us a little bit about that? Yeah, I can say a little bit. The books, I know that I have worked on one of your books that is Supernatural, but we have been with quite some time since 2011. She has been teaching on various places in Kilimanjaro and some places of Arusha and Tanga through conferences. She has been using your books as references of her teachings. So they have been very helpful. And I think now it is going to be much more easier because we have each hour in Swahili. Last time, she had to take some phrases from the book and then put it into the materials. But if we have the book now in Swahili, it is easier for the pastors now to get the copy and use them. How do you imagine you will be able to distribute the translation? Is it going to be print or digital? How do you imagine that can be done and what can we do to help? I think both ways can be used since most of the people here are using smartphones. So they can access the material online if it is free, especially. And for the printed ones, they can also be useful. Maybe when we hold a conference, we can have some copies and give to the people who are attending so that they have something to rely on. Would it help if we printed some here? And I know Charlie is going back there in June. I don't know that we can accomplish that by June. But do you have a printer there? And even if you do, is that something we should think about doing? I think it will be helpful, though I cannot say to what extent. But the way I worked on that book, I found that it has so many important things which people need to get them. So I think if we have some copies, they would be very helpful. Not so many copies, but even about 100, 200, they can help. Is there a printer near you? Because we could also help pay for that. Do you have a printer in a nearby town or city or how does that work? Yeah, the printers are there, but I don't know exactly how much it costs for printing a copy. Maybe if I go there and check to see how it works. Yeah, let us know how much that would cost. Just ask him how much would it cost for 100 or 500, and then let me know. We can discuss that by email whenever you know. I will. Do you have a specific role in a church there, or teaching the Bible outside of teaching English? Or do you sort of do a little of all of that? I'm just a church member. I don't have a specific role, but I just translate for the people who are coming from different places who are not familiar with Swahili. That's the main thing I do, and teaching is my job, so I'm just doing it for Yeah, for getting income. Right. How many students do you have? It's a public school, so it depends. Sometimes around one class you find a class with around 50 to 80 students. What age? From the age of 15 to 19. Okay. Do you have a required curriculum? Yeah, the curriculum we have there. I was going to say, if you didn't have a lot of rules, maybe you can sneak Supernatural. It has a textbook. We would send them free to you. We can use them when we are having those. In public schools, we have one day for religious studies. Oh. So in that particular period, we can just use them. That's interesting. Yeah. Okay. Well, I'll remember that. Wow. So now, one more question. When you have Charlie or someone else come to teach, is that connected to just one particular church, or do you get people from everywhere that come to that? And how do people find out? At the beginning, we had people from almost all churches, but right now, the teachings are focusing on pastors from one church. Okay. Okay. Yeah. All right. Wow. So they're specifically trying to help pastors learn more, and then they can teach other people. All right. Wow. Well, we're glad that we could play a little part in this. And I told Charlie, we talked to Charlie for this episode of the podcast that we are going to be sending audio files of the podcast to him on thumb drives, flash drives. And so you can expect him to have some of those when he gets there again. But anything that would be useful if we can help you get those things or make those things, we are interested in doing that. Well, our talk here will be on that podcast soon. It'll be episode 200. So you can listen to yourself. Thank you. Well, thanks for sharing a few minutes with us. And like I said, if you need something, you have to let us know. And we can do what we can to help you. Thank you too. And I'm very glad to hear from you. Thank you for all your work in the supernatural translation. We really appreciate it. Thank you. I appreciate too for giving me that chance to work on it. Good. We don't want to keep you too late. Thank you. Thank you, Trey. Thank you. Good night. Thank you. Thank you. Bye bye. I'm sure there's probably things you can't say about yourself, but is there anything you can say? Yeah. So my name is Michael Burke, grew up in a small town in Missouri. I'm half Filipino and half Irish American. And because of the half Filipino side, I don't age as fast as my predecessors, which is a good thing now. But as I was growing up, I was always the shortest and the smallest of my peers, which made me a very easy target for bullies. And so I found myself very early on having to dodge bullies and think quick on my feet to avoid confrontation. But thanks be to God that that was just a phase and I grew out of it that through high school and college, I developed martial arts skills. I learned how to see threats before they developed into a confrontation. And what I learned was through strength and discipline in what God was showing me in the Bible that you can actually apply it to your life to create a posture of dominance, not in a way where you put people under, but where you don't present yourself vulnerable to being attacked or taken advantage of. So it's a posture of what God has done for you. And then you reflect that into the land to create safety and a presence of the living God where evil doesn't see you as an easy target anymore, where basically evil sees you as a threat. And I don't think it's biblical that for us as Christians to be afraid of the threats that exist. I don't think that we should be running and hiding from the darkness. I do think it is biblical that the darkness be running from us. So that's pretty much what I've been doing the last 10 to 12 years, taking my experience in force recon with the US Marine Corps and then going volunteering with anti-human trafficking ministries and basically missionary groups that are in hostile areas and giving them the tools and the words that God has given me of basically embodying the gospel, which isn't just words, but is power, that through the cross we actually can become more than conquerors that evil develops and manifests itself in multiple different ways, whether that's through bullies or poverty or disease, pestilence, lack of resources, that evil can come against us in multiple ways. But through the power of the gospel, we can actually stand up against it and push it back and actually bring heaven to earth and create a little pocket of the presence of God here on earth through the words that we preach. We put what we preach into practice and you could see the fruit of it everywhere you go. So that's pretty much the theme of my life thus far. Now I'm working in the Middle East and yeah, I'm not going to get into the details for security reasons. Right. Yeah, we'll come back to the specifics of that as you're able to give them. We also have with us Bell, what can you say about yourself? I can say about myself. I grew up in a single parent and a mom who taught volunteerism and to give your life away and to even though we didn't have, we learned to give. And so that's the nature of my heart to give. And I found Christ at a really very early age because my mom had, she had surgery and they didn't think she was going to come out of the hospital. And so I found Christ then because when you don't want your mom to pass away, you know, that's where I found Christ that and because of that I have a very compassionate heart and God gave me a dream some time ago when I was growing up that my gift is loving people and being very compassionate and that has entailed really giving as my ministry that I do is I found is that giving people and encouraging people. There was a little lady, her name was a Sister Mary Spencer who mentored me for seven years before she passed away. And she had the prison ministry. The name for her ministry was the Holy Woman of God and she taught me how to live a life of holiness. And Billy Graham said a great thing that once you become a Christian people are going to look at you and they're going to look to see if you walk the walk and talk the talk. So here people know what I think is really very interesting is that even if they're another culture they can feel the love of God in your heart and that's what and that's what I'm doing walking and doing the love of God which changes people's heart because when they see love and they feel love and that they feel love that you're giving them it changes the whole dynamics of that. And I found that that has been a great change of compassion and love for people and the people of God no matter what color they are no matter what religion they are because that shows them the true love of God and that's where I'm at so yeah. Now we were connected to you or made aware of you by a mutual friend, John is his name. And my question is do the two of you, Michael and Belle, are you together geographically? I mean what are the circumstances here because what we want to talk about and I know we're a bit constrained for time because Michael might have something thrown on his desk here shortly but sort of like are you together geographically separate? Why would John mention both of you together then we want to talk about how the content of supernatural has had an impact or how you're using that where you're at in what you're doing. Oh great great great great. You want to you want to take that Mike we're just we're just it's kind of hard to explain that when we are. Well I can explain what I do basically I am here providing security for the U.S. State Department at the U.S. Embassy and I have become the volunteer pastor for the Christian Chapel service here. Somewhere in the Middle East right right we we've had we've had a military chapel in prior but when the military separated it kind of fell into my lap to continue the church service here so it's it's predominantly mainly for American citizens and the U.S. mission and it's it's basically a small city and so it's a ministry in itself but the Lord is definitely using us we've developed multiple small groups throughout this this little city of ours and I can see that supernatural would be a great material tool to develop the minds of our disciples here. Now is are you able to I mean John had asked me for the several of the translations have you used them or you have plans for that or what? Yes yes I'm actually you know actually I was praying about it because it's I really love the book you know I really I enjoy the book and so I'm turning into a syllabus so it's it's so we're going to we've been using it teachable but the problem is is that breaking it down making it teachable you know in the small groups making it teachable and so yes so that's what I'm doing right now I'm making it to a palatable syllabus where they can use it as teaching tools during the teaching times because where it's just I cannot just tell you how the explosion of the little small satellite groups is Mike is telling you it's just and not only that I'm sending them once we're starting to teach them on what the book is what I want to do is just send the syllabus because everybody can't you know take the book and take everything with them what I want to be able to do is just tell them to take a copy where they're going and then take it to where they live at you know in the country that they live at so they can go on and teach that so it actually is going to become a teaching tools where it's actually going with individuals that have learned it and they're going to take it and go with it so that's a really great thing about it it's it's it's actually like little little groups that are going and then they're taking it back to their homes and when they're learning it and they're understanding it they're taking it back and it's a really actually a great teaching tool and I really like your your other book that's called the Unfiltered Bible that's really good too love that one too great book I'm working on a syllabus for that too but it's just one at one at a time I've got a lot of things on my plate that I'm kind of doing right now because I'm doing it when I'm not working so but make sure make sure that people know was supernatural whether they get it in English form or some other form that is completely free for distribution and they can have it translated into other languages if they want we don't have a Farsi yet you know so over the Middle East that's one of the languages that we're you know we're hoping to get at some point but you know Arabic obviously we have now yes awesome french was finished this week I know that that a lot of these Middle Eastern countries French is also an important language so that one just dropped this week so it'll be up in the folder I don't know if John gave you a folder access or how he gave it to you but it's there he just sent it through email but I'm telling you that is powerful so what I'm doing is taking the syllabus and translating it into the language so when it when it's taught is taught with the syllabus so so yeah so I'm telling I'm going to send you a copy when I'm done because I'm still getting some of the I'm getting someone to look at it and just going because it's actually coming like because your book is so great I'm taking the chapters and making it to the syllabus and I'm just saying okay so it's actually it's almost it's almost like a little journal book form because I'm wanting to be able to understand it to it and get it and then take it because it's a great great book great book it's a really good book really good book so I and I want to do that to the underbridge one also the unfiltered bible the other book too I want to do that the most recent one yeah yes now um michael or or bell I mean what what's been the just give us an idea of what the response has been either pushback or or something that people have really you know had a bit of a fire lid under them or something has become clear just something where you've seen it become meaningful to somebody I can give you an example like we were reading through the books and what happens is is that I think a lot of times when they're teaching in about the supernatural a lot of people really don't know like a lot of people that are coming from hindi and other cultures like that they really when they're getting in the gospel it really opens it really kind of unveils it for them does that understand I'm saying it gets it unveils it and they really they know that they're there are other forces but this they're not taught about it helps them to understand the plain uh english and plain understanding of what the supernatural is and it's it really is an eye opener and one of the guys once we were talking about it and he said really you know he it was that that's my version of you know he was he you know his eyes kind of got big and he and it really and he really got a really a hold of it and that's what it does is that it's the entrance of the word of god brings light and and you can see it and you can see the change in their understanding and it's so great so that's why I love it I love it I love what the do and what it's doing to people and the change that they're getting from it because they're getting a true change you may not be able to talk to everybody but they really are really loving it they're really loving it so yes it's really changed yeah we're glad to hear that Michael I'm wondering how much how much now that it's sort of divorced from the the military you know you're you're subsuming this role of of being the chaplain um how much oversight is there over you and are you and how much of the content that you give do you have control over I have 100 control of the church ministry here so um yeah I I had two gentlemen working on our co-ed bible study we have a a women's study on Tuesday nights a co-ed study on Thursday nights and a men's study on Friday nights I've yet to receive the materials to distribute we just finished a study last week and so we are looking for more materials to put out to are you looking are you looking for hard copy or digital right hard copy okay another another question did you guys listen to the podcast at all are you able to do that I'm just wondering if there are any sort of firewalls or obstacles or you know what what the situation is over there well the only thing that I can tell you is that the church that that I'm speaking of is a it's a it's a church made made up mainly made up of X facts people from foreign nationals of Arabic Kenyan Indian and Peruvian and just it's it's a really multicultural but it's but it's really catching fire it's really a really a lot of satellite groups it's it is if if you it's just amazing with the power of God is going on here it is it is just absolutely amazing and the materials that John has been sending it is just incredible so we're just waiting on some more things to come by and and Mike I'll give you a copy of the syllabus as soon as I finish but I'll also send you guys a copy I think you'll really enjoy it and that you can use as a teaching tool also and what I want to do is I'm trying to get some other stuff to other people to translate a couple other tracks and things in Arabic we have great groups great groups of people that are on fire for God and they're hungry for it they're very hungry for we should mention John's ministry in this yes so just just say a little bit about you know either of you what your connection is to to his ministry the soldier's bible ministry for me he just he he blessed us there was such a need in in our in our chapel in our church that we have is called all nations church and they were they were without bibles and the chaplain there got in touch with John and he sent those bibles and it was they were so grateful to receive bibles because they were they were without bibles so that's how the connection was was through the chaplain and he has sent us quite a bit of material they were using like devotionals and things like that and it's really helped the growth of the congregation which is quite a few people because a lot of people a lot of the workers and a lot of the people that come in the evening time that's why the congregation is really pretty big it's a pretty good size yes and it's usually it is packed and there those satellite groups are going home and taking their information home and taking that and taking the fire that they have home where they are. Michael how about you what what's your connection to John? I was introduced to John by Bell and it's the same thing we usually get bibles donated from different churches here at the embassy so people would take bibles in the accursion to take them back to their because most people are seasonal here they come here they do their their short term mission and then they go home so we're always getting bibles giving them out getting bibles giving them out and so yes brother John is quite the blessing to be able to bring so many bibles in different translations that's something we've definitely been missing so it's awesome yay yeah he's our hero yeah he's our hero I'm sure he'll hear that I'm sure he'll listen so you know kudos to you John I know he's not he John's just a good guy you know he this this is really a big a big concern to him which of course is why he started the ministry and you know his heart's in it so he'll he'll enjoy hearing that well I want to I want to thank you guys for contributing a little bit to what is going to become our 200th episode on the podcast we're you know just talking to people in different parts of the world some can be more open than others as far as you know who they are and their their information geographically and what they're doing but you guys will be part of that you know that we just figured that would be a good thing to do for that that benchmark episode because the we get emails a lot you know that people are using the content and especially as the translations are starting to drop now you know I'm I'm just glad that it's it's you know useful that's really why we do it to try to do something useful for for believers and I want to let yeah I want to let you know it's more than useful it's very educational and we're trying to get the a lot of the people that are actually benefit benefiting from it what I'd like to be able to do is after they we're we're going to finish uh once they finish your training who want to come in do what likes to do a graduation and and that's what I'm just thinking of once they go through the training is do a graduation and have them come and speak to you so you can hear for yourself what it's done so you can actually hear the results so that's what yeah the other thing is is if you guys if you guys need anything you could email me or reach out to John and he'll he'll send it you know to me um in 2018 we're going to be we're trying to put some thought into it now a little little bit of planning thought to produce something useful for discipleship that incorporates the content of me your syllabus sounds you know like like you're already you know down that road the idea is to produce something you know brief but that uses the content in discipleship then once that's produced in English pass it around to some people in different different cultural groups different people groups and then have them work it over or or adapt it to their own situation then ultimately get that stuff translated because now that I know all these translators it's like they're just ducks on the pond you know really I mean they're they're they're right there they're they're good at what they do they're competent this this would be a lot shorter than supernatural so we could we could produce a number of things um through through my non-profit that would again you know just just be useful so if you have ideas things that you'd like to see please by all means pass them on or if you if you're angling for something you need something you gotta let us know you know I think it it just um you know what I really once praying about is that it's such a both of them are such great books that they would have like a journal attached to it does it make sense what I'm saying because I'm doing the syllabus but it send me a sample send send me a sample pay a couple pages of what you're you're thinking so I can I can visualize it okay because it's just it's it's a great book but you know it's it's people need to meditate on it after they read just one chapter they need to meditate on it you really get in and just really get into it that's what I'm wanting them to do so when they get so when they get finished with the book it's actually a class the book is a class the book itself is a teaching class and when they get finished with it you know it will take them to another level and that's what I'm wanting to do so Michael do you have anything anything to add I know again you're a little bit pressed for time but I just I just think it's amazing that you are able to get the word of God out to so many people I think it's awesome that Lord has given you such a vision for this super clean the word of God in such a way I do think that when we focus on the negativity there's always something wrong with the world and we focus on that we lose sight of what God is doing and we actually we kind of throw off our royalty we break fellowship with God when we focus too much on the the wars and the violence and the pain and the suffering not that those things don't exist they do exist but the provision of God exists in in the problem that where we plant our seeds of faith it's always in somebody else's problems so I think it's amazing that you are getting out the testimony of what God's doing in this region because most of the time people just hear the negativity and the heartache and the tragedy but there is real miracles going on and the Bible says that he inhabits the praise of his people and so that's what's going on here that there is a community praising the name of God and it's growing day by day yes we tend to gravitate toward that I mean you probably have heard me before you know say something to that effect that I I enjoy finding believers in all sorts of odd places just doing stuff that needs to be done and they they don't stop and ask for permission they don't you know sort of look at the problems and you know it's just that I just like to see that I love to run into it where there's so much that could be done that gets stymied either by the kind of stuff you know Michael's referring to or just you know just kind of mind-numbing bureaucracy you know it you know just get off your butt and do it again I just enjoy seeing so we tend to gravitate toward that kind of thing here and maybe there's a bit of a mischievous streak involved in it too but yeah it's just fun to see people do things that need to be done and you know and God will be in it he'll bless it oh I yes I agree I completely agree you know this is if I can if you would have told me you know if you would have told me if I'm telling you it's just taking off if it's it's such taking off it is just the word of God all of us taking off and it's just we were just talking about how fast it's going taken off and how fast and powerful and I mean it's just moving and it's just going just beyond it's just it's just mind-boggling the supernatural things if we if you can only know the supernatural things that God is doing here incredibly so just from here from here so that's what we like to hear oh yeah and I'm happy about it and you know what you don't ask you just get it done so amen yeah well thank you both um be safe uh I know you uh your your heart's in what you're doing and the Lord be with you and the people that you minister to as well amen well thanks for having us thank you for thank you for having us and you thank you for the books thank you for the books and thank you for the material that we're using and you know what John is my hero and you're my you're my hero too because this is what it is it it empowers it it's empowering a lot of people it really is no no kidding no kidding it really is thank you that's great thanks you're welcome thank you god bless you well we have three people with us from Albania and when I asked them to introduce themselves they could get more specific than that as far as city and ministry and that sort of thing we have David Bruna and I think it's is it Fitor or Fidor you know correct my pronunciation there what was that Fitor Fitor okay why don't you why don't you uh introduce yourselves uh to the podcast audience um again we're we're thrilled that you would be able to do this I know we got all a big time zone variance here but um we really wanted you to be part of our 200th episode because of how much you're enjoying the content and what you're doing with it so go ahead and please introduce yourself I guess we could talk we could start with David and then there the other two please introduce yourself sure um well it's great to talk to you uh Mike and Trey I'm David Mutes I'm American uh I work here in Albania um and I'm a big follower of the naked bible uh and and your work uh and in fact I I shared a copy of the unseen realm uh with Fitor and Bruna and then that's how all this got started here in Albania oh wow very remarkable my name is Bruna and I work in Ivana and I am a colleague of David's and this is how uh I had an opportunity after he shared with me a copy of the book and then I shared it uh with the pastor pastor Fitor yeah uh she shared with me but because she is my daughter and okay and when she told me about this book I was really I wanted to know about more about this book and I says to her please can can find a copy and so through uh David we had the opportunity to have a copy of of the book and I was completely catch at the moment that I opened the book and I was uh uh reading about the psalm 2082 verse one I was completely catch and shocked from this because it's like a person that I've been blind and in a moment you can see and and I thought you know I have to start so we started as a family every every day every morning we will read the book together and so we continue for a for time and then we talk as a family and I thought it's time to to to raise up a team a group of people from the church and starting a group of study this book so this was the the beginning right let's see yeah wow I I understand what you're saying with psalm 22 that's how I start the book yeah but you know what sometimes it looks like uh the the people that uh uh or I'm talking Albanian uh uh it's like those gold searchers that are able to find a dust of gold in the river and they knew that that's the evidence that they're able to find more gold and they continued with that stream of river and the same happened with me at the time I was caught by this book by the beginning of this book I was fully convinced that I had to continue and as I said we were able to put together a team of 20 people from the church a part of this group is part of the leadership in the church the rest of the group are individuals who had a first and they really wanted to go deep in the word of God so therefore we embarked on this journey and I can say that that's why it's a journey that has brought us into depth that we had never envisioned we would go but now it seems like it's impossible to get away or to get this attached from what we've been studying and we continuously debate have continuous debate within the group and it's a healthy and a pleasant debate it's not that it's exhausting and I can really say that it was a blessing well I I'm boy what can I say I'm so a little overwhelming I mean I I'm very grateful that it has been such a blessing and honestly I'm more grateful that you made so much effort you know to teach other people you know have them read the book because that's that's why we do it I mean I obviously I know just what you're talking about once once you see it you can't unsee it you know it just there it is and you know that that's what happened to me so I'm always thrilled to hear that happening you know elsewhere and to other people yeah and I Mike I think it's quite remarkable because I know on your podcast you talk about all the time how there's only a few people in every church usually that are really looking to go deeper and how hard it is to get a group of people together that all of whom see this or interested you know little earth residents as you would call them and I can tell you if we were back home I don't think I would have shared this with a pastor and had 20 people reading the book you know a year later with plans for even more with sermons sermons being being themed on this content and to bring this out it's really quite remarkable and I attributed to the fact that here in Albania people don't have a denominational overlay you know they don't have all this tradition which can sometimes get in the way as you know of of of just seeing this for what it is because we all have these I don't know these traditions about what the Bible is say theological traditions you know and it's so it's really refreshing to see people who believers who are they look at the Bible they see what it says and they just accept it you know yeah what what what's the harm you know let's just look at the text exactly exactly yeah that's really neat now what what I'm curious David or you know Bruna have you have you tried it sounds like like you're just going with the the heavy dose you know unseen realm and I'm wondering about if you've read supernatural or tried to use any of that I mean I have to wonder about also what what languages are needed I mean I'm sure you all know about the translation project and I'm I'm wondering if we have anything either running or completed that which would serve somebody who doesn't have English there well I mean as you know we've been discussing translating supernatural rest the congregation I think it's a good a good move I mean I I've only read the unseen realm I've never read supernatural I need I need the footnotes I need to kind of read through this and see maybe every time but you really need to you need to see it for yourself I you know Albania I'll let Fitor and Bruna talk more about the Albanian language and the peculiarities of it it's a very it's a language with very very old roots and it's also very very different from any of the languages in the neighboring countries but a lot of people here in addition to speaking Albanian they also speak Italian maybe French maybe German so those those kind of bigger European languages there's a lot of people here who speak them speak them well and English is very widely spoken here by by people who are educated just about everyone especially younger people are learning English so it's actually much more useful here English than even say in some of the neighboring countries like Serbia or Greece or what so you can penetrate pretty far with that and Albanians tend to know that their language is is is really difficult and obscure they they readily learn other languages much more so than other people that I've I don't know I really think Fitor and Bruna should also speak to that and I would like to also pinpoint the fact that when it comes to the book given with the unseen realm it's not so easy to be understood by Albanians regardless of level of English or competency therefore what we've been doing as a group is dividing chapters and translating them so that the entire team could work off the same version and then we're able to go back and discuss that and turn that chapter into a discussion point or the focus of discussion so what usually happens is that on Mondays the member of the team that will be doing the translation will be actually will be translating the chapter that is provided to the team the week after and then throughout the following week the entire team prepares reads and makes notes and comments and then we discuss that offer the next so this is how we've been going through in this process but I'm very grateful to Dr. Heizer for the opportunity you've granted to us through this book we had never for example anticipated or thought that we would go through the analysis of divine hierarchy or even actually connecting that with Ephesians because really it seemed like the unseen realm was really unseen until this window was opened unto us so we are very grateful of this opportunity you've given to us through this work because it's not rare that in churches you find questions related to this such as for example the book of Job for example when we were unable to respond or to answer the question how did Satan make it into God's presence but only through this book we were able to respond to it wow that's you know what that's just so neat you know that's it's just really all the effort you put into it and it's really a good approach you know to break it down like you're doing and little you know translate portions I mean that yeah I haven't cut run into anybody else any other church that's doing that there are churches using supernatural but I wish they would do it with unseen realm and I think you know they're a handful that are trying to do something there but yeah you folks are just way ahead it's really admirable to be honest with you yeah I love hearing about it for example what has really been something that has really touched and impacted me is when we talk about cosmic geography for example when we talked when it speaks about the story of Naaman would never understood why did he for example ask for some land from the from Israel for example to bring it over and the way cosmic geography introduced and presented it to us to make it very clear its presentation to the church and it really provides space for the church it's not difficult for the church to understand when we talk about geographic cosmic geography good good example and also another thing that we've learned from this book is the idea to go deep to rummage in the word of god and then to continue ask questions about difficult passages we find in the scripture whereas from before we would actually skip them I'm really grateful to god because it really broadens our understanding of him and also this cooperation between his creatures that will then lead into worship yeah well that's you know I hate to put it this way but that's a missing element in a lot of places so you're really seeing the things I was hoping readers would see and connecting those dots you know Mike I wanted just to say too one of the interesting phenomena phenomenon that occurred with the study group in the church that at the moment that the book was available there were a large number of people in the church leadership among kind of the intellectuals in the church who had questions about many different difficult parts of scripture like Genesis 6 like Babel you know all the parts that you covered in the book and the kinds of things that are the you know uh frequently discussed in Christian Middle Earth well these folks were ready and looking for answers and afraid to ask and so the timing of all this I mean obviously a divine appointment on multiple levels but the book was able to suddenly bring all these folks together and starting answering these questions in a way that none of them would have expected so it's been a real blessing on that front too which just to me there's a lot more people out there who could benefit from this but I think we know that yeah yeah what were uh how did they come across and have these questions by their own uh reading their own study or do they have you know exposure to other things that would you know other I don't know radio TV whatever other ministries that would would have planted the questions it's simply from the study of this book actually if you for example were to be present in our study group there's really great joy in the dynamic of our discussion it's like when it comes uh when you actually are part of a satisfactory group people should be very sober and very uh deemed and not happy but it possibly be and they sometimes come with questions that go even beyond the unseen part of the unseen you brought to us and I have to bring them down I tell them please we have to be careful because they I mean you have to really be careful when it comes to how far can you go right right we've had some questions and we did actually write them down we have some of them and just before this uh discussion that we're holding together I ask them if they could share with us some of the values of the book and uh some of the questions that they have seen and some of the things that I've been sharing are the values that the group has noticed in this book and we are currently as we speak starting chapter 25 I said we start in a chapter after chapter and it hasn't been that we spent only one week per chapter there are weeks that or there are times when we've spent more than a week maybe two weeks per chapter for we really want to digest what we mean what we have been studying I'd love to hear you know your impressions and you know some questions but you're amazingly tenacious I don't know if I try to think of another word but maybe something easier to translate but dedicated dedicated yeah I don't know if it's because I know that the group will ask me uh next Monday when we meet ask any questions on our behalf yeah we we can go ahead and if if uh pastor has a couple of those questions sure why not okay one of the questions is why God treated differently the two divine rebellions the one on Genesis three and the other on Genesis six and Akash was sentenced to live in the underworld while the proud Benelohim were bound in chains in darkness and the former gets some autonomy of activity and the latter are imprisoned awaiting judgment another thing would be uh why God insisted so much for a no trans passing policy between physical and spiritual realms when in the new adenic earth people and divine beings would live together well I think the the second one I think we have a little more uh information about that because it wasn't the second rebellion it God wasn't forbidding coexistence you know he is forbidding other spiritual powers from you know having their own followings raising up their own peoples which would create you know rivalries and you know according to Psalm 82 it creates a circumstance where some of those beings are are being looked upon as objects of worship and really doing things to solicit that kind of response from people so I don't think that that coexistence in and of itself uh it was the problem uh it went considerably beyond that and you know I don't know if any of the group has read or caught any of the podcast episodes where we talk about the content of reversing hermon the other book but there's also an element of divine beings presuming to dispense certain knowledge to humans that results in their own self-destruction and idolatry so that was also an element of what's going on here as well so that that's the second part the first part you know we're we're not really told specifically you know why you know God more or less takes you know the position that he does I would say this though the the initial rebellion really is about obviously the the loss of of mortality and you know the the you know the whole episode while it's it's you know something that you know God certainly didn't ordain you know or want you know he can you know and will you know rectify that situation you know through redemption you know the they will have eternal life you know regardless anyway and the the nakash you know the serpent you know commits this this particular crime uh to to rob humans you know through deception of of you know immortality and life with God um you know God of course comes right back and says well you know we're going to take care of that problem we're going to raise up a a deliverer an answer you know from the seat of the woman you know we're not going to we're still going to use humans we're not wiping them you know off the planet we're not there is no plan B we're going to you know have humans involved and from humans I will I will make a solution you know and God of course anticipated that I mean this this was no surprise you know offering himself through through the sun as a solution to that you know the other the other incident is a little bit different in that what they do essentially causes if I can put it this way I mean there are no you know hard problems for God but it causes more difficulty because you have a situation where humans are essentially enabled and taught to destroy themselves you know more effectively and so it's really an attack not on on human destiny or human you know membership in the family but it's really an assault on humanity itself you know to try to um you know really destroy you know people from the earth the other one was again thinking that God you know we're going to get Adam and Eve to fall here and then God's going to you swipe them out and and that'll be the end of that that isn't what happens their lives are preserved but in the in the second instance you've you've sort of got a multiplication of the problem that now you know we take these fallen humans and you know we we teach them things that are going to direct their attention away from the plan of redemption away from the true God we're going to dispense knowledge that will produce idolatry and of course self-destructive behavior and I think what what they do the second rebellion is actually more severe than the first and I think that's part of why you know God responds in the way he does to sort of kind of cut that off you sort of stop it in its tracks a little bit but I think that the more severe punishment uh is actually merited and and I I say it that way because in the second temple period this event it's not the first event it's not the fall you know that that of course is well known and and what happens there is well known you know we have we're estranged from God and now you know we're not going to have eternal life with him unless we are redeemed but it's the second event that is viewed as more destructive and more of a problem because it results in the proliferation of human depravity so in in Judaism second temple Judaism it's actually the second event that you know is sort of is viewed as more of a catastrophe more catastrophic consequences than even the first I mean it would be different if Adam and Eve get driven from the garden and then you know they realize what they've done and you know God offers them redemption and they have children and then they're able to teach their children about the true God and and and you know they they have eternal life you know through the grace of God and whatnot if that was the circumstance that isn't as bad as a world full of people that not only are they in that situation but they are essentially taught to turn from God to hate God to prefer some other you know other entity and you know again to explore you know the you know forbidden knowledge and and do practice you know practice idolatry and and destroy the family unit through immorality and things like that that's actually a much more severe problem because now you don't have just sort of one problem to solve believe in in the redemption that God offers and and you're going to die in this life but but you'll still have eternal life you know if you only had that problem that would be a whole lot better than having to navigate all of the things that tear us away from hearing the message and direct our attention toward again false gods so I think that's why the the problem was viewed more severely and I think that would be a way you know to parse the the difference in the punishment we don't have a verse or a passage that spells all that out but I think it's discernible right right thank you besides this book that we're studying do you Dr. Heiser have any methods that you would maybe suggest if we continue with our study besides what we're doing when you say methods do you mean tools to use or strategies both tools and strategies um it depends on what you have access to I would I would recommend just generally if you have uh if everybody has internet access and and a computer or a laptop or even a phone or a tablet or something like that that you could google faith life study bible I think I think the director dresses faith life by let me look it up here quickly but the faith life study bible is a translation that my employer created I contributed to it but it's not my translation but it's a translation that we created and it's a study bible with about two or three million notes and I wrote the notes for the Torah and Joshua and Judges and Psalm 82 and Proverbs 8 you know a few a few other passages but it's free and so that's a good resource just generally it's www faith life bible dot com and it also comes with a bible dictionary the lexum bible dictionary I have a few articles in there one on the divine council one on ref iim one on the image of god that sort of thing but those are good resources just in terms of something that everybody in in your group certainly and I would think even people in your church that are not in your group specifically could certainly use for bible study and it it's free you know so it's it's right there it's available it's why we made it you know beyond that there there are you know certain websites that you know would certainly help it you're probably best served if I give you a list through email on those and you could actually you can actually send me an email like what what kinds of things do you want to be able to do or to read and I can probably find some things that will be free and useful at the same time so that that's what I recommend it just in terms of those strategies yeah you know my I did a I did a blog post on you know hyzer's law as a bible study where I I list a few things that I think are helpful however having said that I could send parts of my book I can't I wrote a series it's going to be out again in May the 62nd scholar series I had self published that and then it got picked up by a big publisher it's going to be out in May but there are oh there are probably 15 or 20 little readings in that that are about methods about ways to think about bible study that I could just send electronically as well so yeah give me a give me a list of the kinds of things you you want to think about or want to read and then I'll I'll look for that stuff on this end and and send it because we want it to be digital because it's convenient you can print it or put it on a phone or whatever and we don't want it to cost anything by the way if you if you all wanted you know copies of supernatural in English I could I could send you physical copies yeah that would mean let me most welcome yeah I'll send you an address that that can get here quick yeah very generous of you dark yeah yeah let's have to just tell me what what you're what you're needing and we'll figure out a way to get it to you yeah I think in terms of the translation project we'll just ask for a few copies that multiple translators could have a copy to work on and probably using the same method they use with the unseen realm yeah um but it appears that it will not be that difficult to get this translation done here we have experienced translators I mean they've certainly been tested on the more rigorous material already and so they're ready to yeah yeah I don't know if you've had any exposure to the Albanian language I have not because through this study we've seen that some Hebrew words find their true meaning in Albanian for example for example for example the word nephilim we have an Albanian word that says nephilim which stands for in the beginning that's interesting literally true I would say or the word coca bay or the morning star in Albanian can be translated verbatim from Albanian I can make you the head which means it's the first thing that comes yeah yeah and that that's that's morning star language in astronomy in a star that appears first over the horizon yeah yeah so it's translated verbatim from Albanian it's very interesting yeah it's very interesting about this because Albanian actually has root words uh doctor that are some of the oldest root words that are still used in modern languages so it has roots that go far far back um and no one knows the true genesis of the language or all the circumstances are quite interesting true how was uh what is the tradition or the history and I know there's a there's a blurred line between those two things history and tradition um about bringing the gospel to that region of the world in other words is there a is there a strong tradition of you know some apostolic presence there you know like like there is with Andrew he got to this in that country and you know that sort of thing I mean what what's the history of that can you tell me yeah but we started the history of the history of gospel starts from Apostle Paul and yeah he speaks about Albania but not Albania but Yeliricum he speaks at the Roman 15 19 yeah yeah when he says from Jerusalem until in Yeliricum I have fulfilled the proclaiming of the gospel of Christ and this is in the Romans Romans chapter 15 verse 19 and here he was he's talking for Albania because Yeliricum Albania is part of Yeliricum okay Apostle Paul have been here and he has started some churches in Albania so then you know then I mean Paul is obviously going to be he's going to be speaking Greek Hebrew you know probably Aramaic as well so you could have you could have loanwords you know what what scholars call loanwords that get adopted into a local language and especially if they're very specific if they have religious import to them that they they get adopted into the language and they just become part of it then that's very interesting yeah because even some most of Greek words old Greek words can be translated by Albanian yeah for example Aphrodita Aphrodite in Albania is Aphroditas which stands for the day is approaching dawn is approaching yeah very interesting yeah that is interesting but I can I can send you Dr. Heiser if you wanted some words from the Bible that can be uh and have meanings in Albanian language yeah I'd like to see that that would be interesting yeah yeah well uh let's see there's anything else I wanted to to ask or to know one more question before we we wrap up as far as your group your study group and the church what percentage of the church is in this group in other words how do you have a church for the building is this a house church network I mean what what's the situation there I'm just curious I don't have any particular reason to ask but I'm I'm just wondering um yeah you know where what the relationship is between the group I know it's past or led and then the church itself has two Sunday services around the services approximately get the 300 people while the morning service approximately 200 we've started the second service only two months ago but also Rilinda has two other churches one in the rural area of Tirana it's not a very big church approximately one month into dawn and 40 to 50 children nearly three years ago we started another church in another area of Tirana which is happening in the Portania and that's a small church for the moment but Rilinda is the mother church in Tirana when it comes to the group that is currently starting your group it's maybe a little less than half of it nine of them are members of the leadership team of the church and at the same time they are home group leaders so they're able to introduce elements from the book during their studies with their home groups there are members of the church in Tirana who want to go deep in the word of God and they are full of passion for the word when it comes to the intellectual element for example all of them have university degrees only one of them has high school diploma for example part of the group are four doctors medical doctors we have economists in the group IT specialists etc so it's a consolidated group and they look forward to Mondays that is and and we are to be honest we're not only starting the book together but Jesus helped us also get closer and stronger in our friendship with one another so it's worth it and also we are able to communicate with one another through the WhatsApp and we have established a group so we're able to communicate and we are all online in a way communicating and we have a question as we read everyone someone can post it in the group and then we start giving ideas of what it would stand for and it's really well shaped in a way and we've decided that once we complete the study of this book we will wait maybe for your suggestion for our next study group the and once this group finalizes reading the answer in Riham film you group together we will be starting another study group so the people that have already started and they will continue with the second group the first group will continue we'll start again with the materials we've already prepared so much more that we will have ready available materials oh yeah absolutely well that sounds like a thriving group but it's an intentional group obviously and boy for everybody listening to this whether you're in the US or outside the US this is what you should be doing I mean honestly what what this group is doing is what you should be doing you know just sharing the content getting people interested you know you people have to be stimulated to you know just to get in I hate to say it but to get interested in their bible and in your case I mean you had all these questions you were already interested but you know some some Christians just they need to they need to be shown that there are things to think about here that are really important and to to sort of spark that interest well I'm really I'm really happy that we could do this and and connect and you know you could be part of the the 200th episode but also I mean just apart from that just to hear it we will you know get me the information we talked about in email and we can get you some other things and then we can we can continue the conversation about not necessarily the translation is already happening but who to you know how to how to pay you and you know get get that money to the church and then you guys can can handle it however you want help us to do that yeah yeah absolutely doctor we'll we'll follow up and you know like you said more more Christians need to be kind of I don't know somehow prodded into doing this and it's really I think a shame that in places like us and other countries where we have so much we have so many resources where this is so much more available people just aren't interested and I think in some ways because they're sort of taught not to be through a variety of circumstances you know and it's I feel very strongly that we have to start breaking up those artificial walls or breaking them down really and and bringing real Bible with people because I've been I would yeah I would agree with that but when I think of the church I don't think of the U.S. that's true I mean I have to work in English so I'm stuck with that but you know like with McClott to do the translations and and you know this year we're going to try to produce you know discipleship material or something to keep keep that going the church is a whole lot bigger than the west and I'm not I'm not thinking that it's my mission in life to to wake sleeping American Christians it's wonderful to do that and unseen realm does do that but that's just not how I think about the church yeah yeah well that's good it's good yeah it's good again I think people outside of our country are more open to this really do I mean I think this is this is proof of it what we've seen here in Albania and as I think you mentioned in a recent podcast you're doing translations in a lot of languages that you didn't expect to be doing I didn't know idea yeah yeah Polish I think you mentioned some others so it's it's all of those ex-communist countries where where people are much more open to to see the scripture for what it what it is and what it says and not what they're told it says that's very interesting yeah yeah yeah well thank thank thank you all and yeah those in your group that that are just listening and and you didn't verbally participate thank all of you for for your dedication it's just like I said I I admire it and this is pretty much exactly the kind of thing that you know I just want everybody who reads the book to do you know to to multiply it you know get get the content out yeah you know thank you very much yeah dr. Roger really was a privilege for me to talk to you and thank you so much for giving us the opportunity to use your book and to have permission to make a photocopy of the chapters because the guys are working on the on the materials and so thank you again yes yep you're welcome privilege dr. hyzer and thank you for all that you do and for all the dedication that you shown to this it's really uh you're a light to us all and and a blessing and thank you so much that well you're welcome and thank you thank you thank you all right well there you go mic nick and bible around the world yeah yeah to say the least I mean every one of those groups and ministries and just people in these places taking the content I mean it's it's remarkable it's admirable you know every one of them this is the kind of thing that uh I you know when I wrote on scene realm anyway that I was really hoping hoping would happen and then when you know when the podcast you know sort of started becoming what it you know what it is you know with you know when you basically contacted me out of the blue and said hey this is kind of a dumb thing to stop doing your box you know when you talk me back into that it's like yep this is this is kind of what we were hoping for as far as getting the content out and having it be you know meaningful and beneficial so yeah this was a good one yeah I had no doubt Mike actually because I knew the importance of this content so uh it actually doesn't surprise me and shock me so I'm just glad you had a rat on my cage there so that was a good thing well it's been fun and um hopefully we have no plans to stop so oh just no none at all yep just so we'll blink and then we'll have 300 you know just there there will be I know and and you know we're going to Israel this year and we were we were thinking that maybe this would coincide with that trip but it didn't but we're gonna have to do something special for 300 right we're just gonna have to do something we're gonna force ourselves because that'll be you know three or four that'll be what maybe four five years into it so we're gonna have to do something spectacular for 300 we're gonna have to just force ourselves to do it right where do you want to go maybe we'll go to Albania that's what I'm hearing it all at I want to go maybe we'll go we'll do a world tour just uh we'll interview these people live how maybe something like that or we'll have some big party we'll have everybody calm or something and uh I don't know we need to figure something out because we got to do something fun okay I'm not going to argue against it all right I can I can just hear the wheels turning already so absolutely well we've got 100 episodes to come up with something you know we get we got a while so we could do something we figure something out but all right mike well it's been fun and uh we appreciate you keep cranking out the content and uh we're just gonna keep chugging along yeah yeah I like the topical stuff you know the the q and a's and whatnot there's variety there so you know and then you do you do enough for those it's like okay I'm in the mood for the book study now so it's yeah it's not getting old it's not getting old at all well we appreciate everybody who's listened to us and uh we just want to say you know heartfelt thank you and god bless everybody out there who listens to our show and spreads uh the naked bible concepts to their church and their friends and family wherever they may go and mike hopefully 2018 and beyond we're going to continue to grow and grow and grow and so you know I just want to thank everybody for listening to the naked bible podcast god bless thanks for listening to the naked bible podcast to support this podcast visit www.nakedbibleblog.com to learn more about dr hyzer's other websites and blogs go to www.brmsh.com