 This is the OGM weekly check-in call for a Thursday, September 1st, 2022. Turning on the transcript. Oh, good. There we go. He beat me to it. And welcome, everybody. I, when I sent the invite out yesterday, I put in, I slipped in a small request, which is as we check in, because today is check in format to check in with the word that's dear to us. And it can be a word that's dear to us long term. It can be a word that just has been ringing around for us recently. It can be anything else like that. And so as we go around checking in, please offer up a word that has been significant for you in some way. And we'll hear a little bit about the story of life. So with that, why don't we, why don't we go. Thank you. And Mike, you have a question. I'm in the Boston airport and I have a probably 40 minutes and I have to eat lunch in between. So if I can go early. Why don't we start with you and then John Kelly and then class. Real quickly. This sounds like boasting, but this is leg one of the round the world Mike Nelson tour. So let's stop on the way to Istanbul and planes and go to at least see Georgia where we're spending six days visiting a friend who's there. And then I have to go to work and fly to Singapore and Malaysia, because the world information technology and services association is gathering about 35 of the national trade associations cover tech. So any of you have a message I need to deliver to those people, preferably in Twitter format. Please send me a note. My focus is going to be on the, the bad means, the bad means that shape tech policy and and and business decisions that means like data is the new oil, or, you know, forwarding is better than sharing. There's a bunch of memes that are distorting our policy that the worst one I'm worried about now is that the phone companies that the oligolids all got ballistic phone companies in Korea and Europe and and the UK are trying to convince governments to get all the content creators to subsidize them because they can't make enough money providing the bits that they're getting paid to supply. So anyway, that's that's what I'm up to for the next week, two and a half weeks. Also, we just released a very exciting report called data governance comma Asian alternatives, looking at how Korea and India, manage data and are trying to determine how they can make lots of money with it. Combined into new services. It's an interesting time. And everybody's focusing on China, Europe and the US, but Korea and India are doing some of the most interesting things with new business models and new new policy. So if you if you can't find it. Just look for data governance Asian alternatives. You are. You are too late to that Mike Pete has already sourced it and share the link with us. You guys are just like so so brainy. The other thing, Jerry that I need to talk to you about is that Carnegie is starting a, an effort to use LinkedIn to build little communities for our, particularly for some of our junior staff, remote staff. I'd love to know if people have found a good way to use LinkedIn rather than Facebook groups to build small communities around fun around research topics around events around job opportunities. I have not done this on an organization wide scale and I'm kind of the nudge she's pushing the idea. So that's. Thanks Mike, before I go and ask if anybody's got that kind of expertise or some experience in that I would love to know what your word is. So I'm asking everyone to jump in with a check in with the word that means something to them. I was fascinated with that exercise we just buried my uncle. And that is celebration of life. Everybody got one minute, one word. And on the back of his tombstone, we will have the words that people shared. It's quite a way he needs a very multifaceted guys, we got a lot of weird words, but my word is a verb. Just enjoy. When I bicycle or I run, I see other people and I, it's almost a command. Enjoy. I would love to be affirmative or the imperative in the imperative. Yes, definitely an imperative with an, with an apostrophe, I would say, Mike for the small groups. One thing we've been experimenting with some of us here is clubhouse, which is so for small groups is actually very helpful. Yeah, a lot of this is sort of information sharing and because we're a global organization by nature will have to be asynchronous. But clubhouse might be a way to build community we can we can have little clubhouse events that would let people share. I would of course welcome any ideas that people have on what to do while I'm in Georgia, or in Singapore. I don't know if anybody's been to Penang, Malaysia, but I'm going to be pretty busy there. Yeah, again, thanks Gary for letting me go first. I look forward to hearing what other words people have, what other adventures people have in store this fall. Thanks Mike, and happy, happy trails. It appears that Mark might have might have some advice. You're muted. But you've noticed. I don't know if our being spent on muting muting, muting, muting, muting, muting, muting. We're all mutants. Hi. So I'm trying to find it, but in September. In Tennessee, there's a community webs meeting that is put on by the Internet archive and groups about community webs. I will try to find that. And I'm trying to go to it actually. But click on older posts and see if it's there. I'm a little disheveled from falling in love and D web. Yeah, so if I don't get it to you immediately, forgive my not being on internet time, but on human time. What great reasons to dishevel. I mean, seriously, do you want to say a wee bit more? I mean, Sorry. Do you want to say just a wee bit more? I'll check in. I won't interrupt the flow. Jump the queue. It seems very appropriate right now. Please do. Oh, well, I've known a woman for over four years. We met at Terry Deacon's Terry and the Pirates group where we talk about how mind emerged from matter and how to basically bring the human. Terry is a biological anthropologist from neuroscience. So we study how mind and meaning and purpose and value emerges from matter in a physical way, not with who but with with direct clear physical science. It's hard. It is really, really tough. But it's the most absolutely fantastic intellectual venture I've ever been on. Anyway, she we dated and she surprised me telling me that she had this polyamorous connection with the guy who brought her to the group kind of like okay. It's not for me. Years later, I like her as a friend and so we go out dating and that was fine a little bit, you know, maybe not dating but just enjoying each other's company. And then I got cancer. I saw her about six, seven months after finishing chemo. We ate at this marvelous restaurant owned by friends named Mua in Oakland. And I couldn't keep but jump over the table to grab her. And so, you know, I pulled back and knowing myself saying yeah this is uncomfortable for me to be repressing this kind of connection. About four or three four months ago, and we started hanging out again. It was such fun. And then, after a while she hits me that she's no longer with john. And I'm kind of like okay the brakes are off. This is good. And so things accelerate. And then she hits me. She has a bomb. And she's a sub. I'm like what. Let's explain this. And then I get a lot of processing done with the help of ketamine and, you know, really using that drug, using that medicine to keep still and meditate. So now I'm fine with that. And then she springs on me. But because of her depression bipolar her medicines that she's a female unit and does not want any sex. I'm going like well how does this fit with the, you know, I'm battered back and forth. So, and she's given me permission to say that all this public. Now there's no, no. No harm no foul here. And so I'm kind of going. If I were married to this one, and this had happened to her with a divorce or hell no. I'll be with. Next. I found my home and I have a campfire just outside my front door, which is, of course, but everybody should have campfires are just human to speak and just to be warm in the misty fog to have that, you know, gradient you're warm in front you're cool. You know there's mist outside the dark. You just muted yourself accidentally mark. The fire is just infinitely fascinating to us humans, and it's healing. And she says, I'm fertile still. I want a baby. And I'm like Wiley E coyote and here's this 10,000 foot anvil coming down on my head, smashing into the ground. I'm in tears in seconds. And I had never even considered the possibility of having a child, much less with her about 3040 years. And, and it feels like my being with her and the fire of my ardor is hurting her. And now I'm pulling back to really kind of say, we're at different places in life. And she's in denial of some anxiety, social anxiety problems and I think I'll read from John Deland, not the end, but a poem right now, go crystal tears. Go back to the morning showers and sweetly weep into the ladies breast. And as the dues revive the drooping flowers. So let your drops of pity be addressed to quicken up the thoughts of my desert. Which sleeps to sound whilst I from her depart. Haste. Restless size and let your burning breath dissolve the ice of her injured heart. Who's frozen rigor like forgetful death feels never any touch of my dessert. Yet size and tears to her I sacrifice, both from a spotless heart and patient eyes. Mark, thank you for. Thank you for trusting us with your story. I'm not sure I could have conjured up what the story you just related where I trying to create a work of fiction was fabulous. You are exactly you are mid life stream of exactly that thing experiencing it wholeheartedly in, in a, in a very, very, very long time. And I just want to say wholeheartedly, like I can tweak this maybe little rectangles of zoom but I feel you. And so thank you with that let's, I think let's just go quiet for a moment. And you have one more thing to add. And you have one more thing to add. Do you have camp 425 people who want to basically take the internet back from corporations for, you know, a week of my involvement. And, you know, I sacrificed such pain suffering to get it done. I fought fought fought so that I could bring this incredible piano. Very professional very heavy. And people say no no we don't want that we don't need that turns out there was a wedding, a rewedding of some of the most wonderful people from yellow calm, welcome, and either. And the piano was absolutely key in their wedding, which I had to miss. Because of some injustices done to me. And I must imagine my innocence, basically, where a woman felt harassed by me, and I was not told. I was not able to be told what was going on. I just you violated the code of conduct we know you've done it in so innocently. So we can't tell you what's happened, we have to ask you to leave. And I'm like, I'm leaving I want to go to go see Kate, I want to go get more ketamine gosh I just need healing out of here. I've already planned to be out of here by, but injustice, especially towards the woman who felt violated. And, yeah, there's, there's things to fix. It's been one hell of a shot from a rocket week for three. I've lost. I don't know how many pounds, but I've lost to belt sizes. And yeah, I know my limits. I'm able to push them to the absolute limit. And I'm an eagle scout. I'm trustworthy, loyal, helpful, friendly, courteous, kind, obedient, cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean and reverence. And you know what, I'm feeling my true self a hell of a lot more than the past 1530 years. I'm feeling power. And done with. I'm done with the real difficult parts of this last month or two. And I'm here, I'm back. So to listen and more deeply participate in this group, as many other groups that I'm with. Thank you for listening. I don't mean to have a long check in, but, you know, if it felt appropriate, try to keep it as concise, clear and respectful as possible. Thanks. Thanks, Mark. And welcome back to yourself. Yeah. One thing that is really, really important. I thought I was head sick, or that I had some kind of body sickness, but I discovered from healing and accelerating the healing with many different paths that for many years, I've been heart sick. And I don't know that path to healing, but it's doable. And it's necessary. And I'm taking the first steps on that path to heal that heart sickness. Kate may not be right. Most of my friends say, she's a hot mess runaway screaming. But, you know, that's my decision her decision. We'll see if. Yeah, it's it's, I've been in love with other people. If this doesn't work, then I'm not going to hurt her and I'm not going to hurt me trying to make it work like I used to. Thanks. That was important to say. Thanks. Mark. Thank you. I don't know how any of us are going to follow what you just said, but I know that John Kelly was at the web camp as well and reported in briefly for us from the field. So why don't we go John Claus, Doug Carmichael. Hey, good luck on good luck. Thanks. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Hard act to follow is sort of an understatement. I will say, let's see. Well, I'll do the word first and it's a word we've all heard. And I have a, I'm using it because I have a new appreciation of how fragile it is. And, and the word is sense making. And as it relates to the D web. Well, that's the reason why I was there. I was there to find out what people were doing to enhance and preserve sense making and what the risks were and what else was going on. And I spent almost all the time in a group called MetaGov, which is focused on governance. And they've been working on this for quite a while. One of the slightly disturbing aspects of that is that they are thinking the way internet engineers have to think, which is, you know, pipes and interfaces and, and, you know, they're actually trying to build a new set of things that are true. They don't, they want to get past the current agglomalations or whatever you want to call them, you know, the things that allow platforms to become corporate and to dominate. And that involves, you know, identity and reputation and all kinds of other things, but, but they're really focused at this point on, on quite technical. A lot of them, a bunch of them are focused on quite technical, what we could call content free. And I'm of course, and several other people that are focused on content. I mean, we're exactly focused on, wait a minute. What is it that allows disallows or encourages people to discover things to make sense and to make a different sense than they're being led to make. By what's worse, much worse than a filter bubble bubble, it says by the very active distorting powers that are out there. So it was a it was a very good week. I'm very glad I was there. I had lots of good conversations. It's, it was not. I would say it was about, it was partially reassuring and partially disconcerting because of the range of like I say the range of where people want to put emphasis on their, their efforts. And from my personal perspective, and which I think might be shared by OGM, that we would have said, well, there's not enough emphasis on the, the positive, not just content but the positive in infrastructure, you know, the kind of, okay, maybe it's not a braver angels, maybe it's, you know, there's, there's various things that we all know about that we think of our, you know, going in the better direction, even if they haven't found it yet. And they're what I would have wished there was more emphasis on that. And I intend to try to do more of that in the future with the people and with the context that I made. And that's sort of like the way the battle line is drawn now. Lots of interesting stuff. You know, if people are interested, we could, we could drill deeper and found out about Holo chain which I didn't fully understand before and you're shaking your head Jerry I'm sure you're, you're up to speed on it. I'm a huge fan and I love Arthur and all the things he's done but I'm not at all up to speed on it so I'm curious. Yeah, so you know that that's a topic for a future, a future session and maybe brought it's, it should be broader than D web it should be. What are the positive, what are the threats to sense making, and what are the positive sources directions resources, both technical as you know from the web, and also from other other places about that. It's a possible future topic. Thank you. Thanks john. That's awesome. Let's go to Klaus Doug Carmichael and Stacy. Mark has his hand up briefly go ahead jump in. You're still muted. There you go. I have a ritual for acknowledging that mistake. Anyway, training right. Um, yeah I want to thank john for showing up at my talk and it started slowly and and then it was attended by some amazing people, including an artist that Natalia Jeremy Jenko, who is this one of my heroes or she rose as you'd say so that was, that was just amazing. It was appropriately small and short. So thank you john. And thank you for, you know, the talks that we had, they were deep and wonderful. All right. Okay. Thank you. Let's go to Klaus. The word that I come across most often and use most often is regenerate. And that's because of my single minded focus, but regenerate regeneration regenerative. And it is in, in contrast to sustainable. Because we are beyond focusing on sustainable because the systems the natural systems have deteriorated to a point where we need to fix them first before we can return back to a sustainable world. So regenerative means to repair. And you see that, you see that taking hold when you look at, for example, the regenerate America initiative, which, which seeks to, to, to help understand the needs to to repair what is a depleted environment and to restore our relationship with the natural world. Very short nutshell here. What, what word came to mind for me. Thanks class. Anything else you'd like to check in with. Well, the. Yeah, I mean I see. A lot of, of energy and activity in this regenerate regenerative community what I don't see much of is it leaking and taking hold in the general public. There's still an astonishing disconnect between where we are and what, what direction we need to take and and the understanding of the general public, what that implies. I've been working in my own community to, to get people interested to take a look at the IRON or the entity inflation reduction act because they are, for example, $20 billion in there to restore local watersheds and repair soil and in a hyper local context and even in a relatively progressive community like Bend that it just doesn't resonate to see a few people who get it. But by and large, the local paper doesn't pick up on it. The, even the NGOs that are operating locally don't get it. And it's, it's sort of, I mean, you just feel such such heartache now to to try to figure out how to explain the, the urgency of, of, of the moment when you look around globally. I mean, one third of Pakistan is under water. I don't know if you have followed this right. They lost 90% of their crop already because the, the river that runs through the entire country from from the north to south covers one third of the land mass and of course all the crops are being thrown next to the river. Now, and that kind of flooding has wiped out the crop Europe has lost about 50% of their yields here in the United States the same China has lost massive amounts of crops and so on and still now when you look at what we're focusing on in our national dialogue, it just doesn't penetrate into public consciousness. And it's so irresponsible and reckless of people who control the media to not educate and alert the public to the implications of that because there are, it has to be a collective response. There is nothing that a few companies, no matter what size can fix it requires behavioral adaptations and changes. You know, we need to mitigate and adapt. So we are in an adaptation mode. So, yeah, I'm sort of in this. I mean, I have people who want to start a company and engage. I just gave a presentation at an industry forum, which has picked quite some interest in the, in the systems thinking work, but the systemic connections, you know, between, between our individual behavior and the response in the food production and natural world in general. I just, I just not visible to the general public and I don't know how the weather is going and I don't know how much longer we feel twifting along here and fixing know whatever Donald Trump wants to do is, is possible, you know, without having some some real bad times ahead of us. So it's like you're sitting in a car speeding towards a wall, you know, you're trying desperately to can be shifted steering wheel just a little bit to the left or the right but we can't know. I'm sorry, I didn't mean to be on my usual rant, but it's getting more depressing. No, the longer it keeps falling. Thanks, there will be counselors available in the hallway after our call today. Yeah, these are these are very really trying times. Thank you for that. Let's go done Carmichael Stacy Pete. I asked why I was wearing a scarf and it's 47 degrees here this morning on the Russian River in Northern California. We've had great weather, despite what's going on with the world. My word. I was looking with Jerry's nudge here on what word stirs up the most number of neurons in my mind. And the word that I come up with two. And neither very pretty. Maybe the second one's okay. But the first which is the most stimulating to me is the word art. And I looked up the etymology of art and it also is related conditly to arms as in weapons, which shows everything is more complicated than we think. What's been on my mind, mostly is given temperature rise and things like Pakistan question I played with a lot is who will do what and when will they do it. Anyway, I'm just going to stop there. Thanks Doug, what was the second word that was coming up for you. Oh, good. I never got there tonight. Unconscious. Oh, thank you. Thanks Doug. Let's go Stacy Pete Judy. If it's okay I'd really like to give my time to Erica. I know it's her first time here and can invited her. I'll very quickly tell you that my word is coddy whopper, which I got from April's book. And I love that word because finally I found the word to describe myself. And the other thing I want to share is that I hosted a really nice call between Barry and Julian on my drop in hours that I put up on the channel that Pete started in matter most I think it's really interesting call. And that's it and welcome Erica. I'm sure that's okay with everybody that I'm giving her my time right. And Stacy, thank you I had with with somebody who's new to the group I usually put them sort of in the middle of the flow I'm happy to Erica bring you in at this point that'd be great. So if you'd like to jump in please feel free. Sure. Thank you Stacy I appreciate that. And welcome. Thank you. It's great to be here. I am. I can invited me and it's it's wonderful to be here. So starting in with my word. I think right now it's explore. So I'm exploring different things actually my personal life and in different communities. A little bit about what I do. I do organizational development leadership development top team alignment journeys. I work with a lot of C sweet folks to help them transition from role to role conversation to human to human conversation. And I understand from Ken that probably a lot of you all are involved in organizational development so I'm looking forward to that. I also focus on. Exactly Jerry. Is it possible. I don't know. I also focus a lot of my work on diversity and inclusion and helping companies build practices and processes that are equity centered. It's kind of been a place where I'm probably experiencing the most friction and at this point in my career. I think there's. So just a little bit of background on me. I'm first generation us, my family's from Mexico. I typically get told by a lot of people that I don't look Mexican, which, which is a whole interesting conversation to have about about what our media and what our society tells us certain ethnicities should look like. And I'm just encountering a lot of a lot of conversations in my career right now where the diversity inclusion principles aren't really getting applied. What dare I say appropriately or regeneratively I love that word. And it concerns me. It concerns me because it's impacting the way we're doing business it's impacting who were bringing in to do work who are not bringing in to do work. It's impacting the way we relate to each other as humans. And what I find in the work that I do is that a lot of times the, the technical piece the analytical piece is there the wisdom is there but what gets in the way or the feelings and the emotions, and, and the lack of safety that one feels in the group. So that's what's coming up for me in this, in this part of my time and this part of my journey. I'm also just to kind of share a little bit more with you about what explore means to me. I'm, I'm usually nerdy now and reading a bunch of books and designing things and I'm in this place in my life where I'm just kind of leading the computer and taking art classes I'm growing classes. I'm doing open water swimming and I'm reconnecting with what I call the better half of my brain. So, I'm hoping that brings some peace and some rewilding of the mind to bring in some more creative and love based solutions so that's me. Thank you so much and welcome. Really happy you're here and love your quest. It's really great. And, and there seems to be this theme of reconnecting with ourselves our essences are other, our other parts are other less linear brain, whatever. Which is lovely. That's great. Thank you. Julian. Thanks. Heavy call so far and especially thanks Mark for, for being human in the internet. That's awesome. My word is, my word is love. And this has been my word in some of the get togethers that Jerry's had probably for 20 years or so. It's a little bit harder to say it nowadays. It feels like the world has changed from, you know, 10 or 20 years ago. It's a different world. I still think it's the most important word kind of or the most important concept. Maybe words, words aren't so important, but maybe, you know, the idea underneath it is so all we need is love. Love is what, what puts us together. So I still like the word. I wish the world were different around it. I just have maybe a really quick check in. All kinds of interesting stuff going on, including my explorations into. I feel silly, stupid even saying this, but my explorations into AI, art and image generation. The space is exploding. And that doesn't mean that you have to go check it out. It's not an interesting space, I think for most people. Most people are like visual arts or, you know, engage with visual arts, but maybe not. To get into AI image and art stuff, you have to have kind of a professional interest, which I kind of known I've had for a while. Anyway, I'm going to put a link to the Metamus channel I started. It's a small channel. It's not very active yet, but you can kind of keep touch with where I'm exploring. And I'll hope to have more news in a few weeks. Love that Pete, thank you. Thank you, thank you, thank you. I'm going to try two words. One is kind of odd in the sense that it's hope. There's a lot to not feel hopeful about in the world right now. And yet, there are people of substance who are attempting to address things that seem unaddressable. Because the movement spreads. I think that there's a possibility that things could improve. And so I choose to be hopeful. The second word is generative. And that's because I think a lot of organizations that at least I'm working with are beginning to actually think differently about what the issues are. And what an ever whatever level small to big they might be able to do. There's a movement or a sense of the possible movement toward action to change things. And if that can be expanded. If people can kind of take it to heart and bring it to the next meeting they go to, and ask similar questions. It's heartening to hear collective groups of individuals asking tough questions, trying to figure out what the issues are and what they might do to try to address those issues. Thank you. There does seem to be some interesting kind of shift of foot in lots of different ways and corners and I'm just my spidey senses sort of saying that there's some kind of grounds well orientation shift polar switch I don't know what exactly to call it but something's going on this big. So thanks for pointing to that. Julian Michael Barry. So I still feel inadequate going after Mark. My first word is relief in the last couple of days I've actually been able to get some work done. And these days I spend most of my time putting out fire so it felt really good to be waiting into various software packages and getting some knowledge developed. My second word is actually a word pair. It's both anticipation and dread so they sort of cancel each other out anticipation because of a conference coming up week after next and then dread after classes observations to what's happening with flooding and the way that the world's media is basically ignored. Well, the US media is ignoring it. And one thing I've got to point out is that for example the UK media seems to be giving doing a better job covering what's going on in Pakistan and the US media is. Okay, so those are my words. Awesome. Anything else you want to check in with the conference coming up week after next is called dent. It's named after Steve Jobs is observation about put a dent in the universe. And as you know my goal is to take over the world. Although at my age I don't remember what for, but the basic premises to try to improve communication between people. And having taken some real positive steps toward that in the last two days and it makes me feel good for now at least. Steve Brobacks dent. Yes. Okay cool. Thank you very much. Michael and Barry. I came in a little late so I'm picking up what the word is supposed to represent I wasn't here for the challenge. But I think the word kind of word set that is alive for me is understanding and misunderstanding. Therefore, and just the the crucial nature on a personal level on a group level on a global level. And I think it's important to be aware of being able to, you know, stand under somebody else's condition, and, and empathize and grok what what is making them behave the way they do and and not, not simply, you know, misunderstand. It seems misunderstand seems to benign a word for the act of not standing under somebody's conditions I mean it's really active. It's an active willful thing to to not understand to not empathize. At the same time, we can all do better in in helping people understand where we're at, instead of assuming that, you know, we're right on, you know just coming from a place of work around me, you know work around my way of being my stance. Yeah, that's, that's what I'm thinking about on a lot of levels. Thanks Michael. There's a really interesting difference that I don't think has explored that much between disinformation misinformation mal information. And there's a miss underestimation just to do a little bushism of the power of people who intentionally want to disrupt discourse I call it denial of discourse attacks. Where we're trying to figure out how to solve some stuff, but there's some actors in the arena who are actively trying to make sure nobody's got time to actually solve the problems. And that turns into all sorts of spinning manipulations we've talked about that lots of lots of GM calls before. And, and I continue to have this naive belief that we can find some place to meet and talk about these things that we believe very differently from us, despite that mal information that poor and that very different intention coming in. So, it's on my mind a lot of merchants have done a fabulous book. Jerry, I just, I just want to cut back in just to, yeah, please, kind of create. I agree with what you're saying, I want to create some, some distance between the missing disinformation, and the, and the, you know, understanding piece that I feel like the, the empathy and love, and, and feeling of somebody in this position, let alone, you know, putting aside the content that drove them there the content that you, you know, I think that that misinformation and disinformation are sometimes, but not always symptomatic of misunderstanding that leads to the, to the misunderstanding. And, and so, and I do think that when you talk misunderstanding these days, one goes to blame the misinformation and the disinformation and the mal information. And, you know, I'd love to see us all individually, try and move past that. Thank you. I love that point. I appreciate it. Mark, you have a hand up. Yeah. Thank you, Michael. That's an amazing points. I think it's a role in, you know, many different groups. And I think of what I've been doing for many, many years is as a reverse epistemologist. I think that epistemological justification is bunk people basically conflate knowing with belief, and what people believe is what they want to believe. And so I look at the aesthetics of wanting of desire, and where it comes with belief, but reverse epistemology is also looking at ignorance, also looking at a closed heart, saying, I don't want to hear you. I don't want to know. And to melt those into it. I think that's our job. Our job is to be more human and set a better example and say, Hey, we're having fun. We're talking where we're connecting where we're basically loving each other without being assholes to each other. And you're invited. Come join the fun. Come join the fun of being more open, more listening, more connected, more compassionate. And yeah, I think it's, it's our hearts that it's got to leave. Although we're, we're all smart here. I respect every damn person on this call for their intelligence, clarity, thoughtfulness. But it's the hard work. Boy, it's the hard work. And I just don't have a clear path to that. But I think my role is shaman. To know love sex, drugs and death really, really well. And to basically be secretly a shaman because a shaman gains power with with more people who know that they, he or she is a shaman, and they don't share that. The shaman loses balance. So I'm trusting all of you to not tell anybody, even though this is going to be a recording. It's also being, you know, it's also being in the, in the middle, being between worlds. I'm Mexican, half Mexican. I can pass for white, I can pass for male, I can pass for old. But anyway, yeah, Michael inspired that push to be heart leaders rather than, you know, trying to get attention for ourselves for our smarts and thus get some kind of, how do you say, brand or personal brand, such that we're able to survive more easily because of people wanting to give us money for our, our, our expertise. It's kind of a both end there. And I don't know that path. But again, I think it's doable. I think it's necessary. Thanks. Thanks Mark and your shamanic secret is safe with us, just between us. Thank you for passing the two ferns. Which doctor might be a hell of a lot more fun to, but you know, I think a lot of people would get offended by that. There's also the trickster and the green man, those are very fun architects. Barry Doug B. Carl. It's been about three minutes because I have to jump to a noontime meeting. Oh, sorry, sorry about that I would have brought you in earlier. It's okay. I don't really have that much to say. The other meeting which meets every Thursday at noon, sometimes we meet in person and I can't even be here because I have to travel beforehand to get there. Today we're meeting on zoom so I've got a couple minutes before that meeting. I'll write down two words which are my own and then a third word which I added from what I heard the two ID, the two words that get me going are idea and enthusiasm. And in my career, whenever I assigned to address a hard problem. The first thing is come up with an idea that has some promise and generates enough enthusiasm to work out the idea to see if it can really solve the problem. But my professional career has been about about 35 years ago I had what I considered to be maybe the best idea of my career and the most enthusiasm. And that what that led to some research on the role of emotions and learning, and I ended up developing a systems theoretic technical mathematical model of the interplay of emotions and learning, which I wrote up as reviewed and encyclopedic articles on cognition affected learning. And I would, my, my great dream is to pass that work on to a successor. While they're before the hourglass of life runs out on me. And I'm, I'm in search of somebody who's interested in that work and wants to pick up where I left off. Another word that I spend more time on these days is misconception. There are so bloody many misconceptions that suffuse our popular culture and as a scientist and as an educator, it's part of our role to dispel misconceptions. And that turns out to be bloody, bloody hard, much harder than I ever imagined it would be. So that's, that's the short and long of it. I hate to eat and run, but I'll stick on for about a couple more minutes than I got available. Thanks Barry, I just shared a link in the chat asking if that was a piece of the work and Stacy confirms it. I just want to see if you have any other links you'd like to share on that so that we can go investigate. Yeah, that's the one on cognition. And as Stacy mentioned, I spent an hour or so last Monday with Julian Gomez and he and I have turns out have a lot of overlap of interests and background, and we had never met before. So there's hopefully going to be a rich exchange, but I've only had one hour Julian so far. So dendrites have connected. Thank you. Judy it's dendritic interactions at play. Let's go Doug Breitbart, Carl and Rick. The first mark I just want to acknowledge your generosity and share was awesome. And appreciate it. So the word for me is, is connection, or the lack thereof. And I'm really interested in how to restore that on a sentient whole being basis. While creating doing. There are just two pieces of of that that I think are striking commentary. My partner in Germany Tina Goderman is involved with a volunteer organization that is responsible for shepherding the Cogies through a European swing I don't know whether everybody here is familiar they're an indigenous tribe. And they send emissaries teams out into the world. To sort of share their experience in the world. And Tina shared with me. The first step of their journey on this particular trip was a flight from Latin America to to Europe. And the first thing that was required in order for them to fly because they do not wear shoes. Anywhere ever is that they could not board a plane without wearing shoes. And so it was a shot of them in a big box store getting all outfitted with shoes. But intrinsically shoes, disconnect them from the earth. Like, so in order for you to come to our world. The first thing we're going to do is disconnect you from the earth. Which is all about the center of where they live from. How their belief system, you know, they're completely and fully integrated 24 seven in being connected to and part of the natural world and the planet and the universe. So that was that was piece one. Two was a tweet. Was the man who married a hologram in Japan can no longer communicate with his virtual wife. The software that allowed the interaction is no longer supported. And the man can no longer interact with the hologram with which he had a relationship for years. And between those two things, it sort of captures. At least for me. Where have we gone wrong. Like, where have we lost discernment about what's important on a living human being basis. So, I'm working on the white wolf of that which is how to how to reconnect and restore and create space and possibility for people to reconnect internally with their own being us. And then with their world and with each other. And I'm complete. Thank you. Carl Rick and me. So yeah, I posted a few links and over the past week and I went to a workshop and the things were about dignity, trust and belonging. And my job where oh there's the D I but the federal government we actually it's actually DIA accessibility so it's really nice having that that being explicit in there so it's been for a decade having to be the accessibility evangelist so it's nice that we've made progress on that front but yeah there's a just how belonging and I've seen some things where people are bringing belonging to D I and then the dignity though it was always fascinating because her and another speaker was it's about was about conflict, conflict resolution and things to and the international things working with Bishop to and things it's dignity was the word that came out that people felt their dignity was being violated and that that connected more with people than any of the other words that people had so she's the doctor that has some two books on it so so that's kind of what's got my attention this week. So Carlis is your word dignity or were or accessibility. Yeah, take it. Yeah, dignity, dignity and a second won't be belonging. Thank you. And thanks for the book recommendations as well. I didn't know about Donna Hicks and her work so more stuff to learn about. Rick. Sorry about that. My phone was going off. Yeah, my word is equity moonshot. And I just want to what what it means is it's about co designing and building an equitable regenerative and sustainable future that's the definition. I was doing a course this week and there was an assignment to an accountability assignment which had to come up with a promise about what your work is about what are you promising to deliver. And I found that incredibly instructive. And so I wrote something up. And it so happened that I'm going to be submitting an abstract to a conference in the beginning of November. It's a small international conference of complexity scholars and healthcare. And I shared it with the person who's organizing the conference just to get his feedback because he's from Australia. And he has such a different lens, and it was incredibly instructive because he didn't like the word equity moonshot. And I didn't define it in my abstract. I thought I had to define it, which I did and I told him what, you know, how to redress his negative connotation because it's a technological metaphor but equity moonshot to me is an oxymoron, because it's both technical and equity has to do with humanity. So what I would do is just share the abstract with you. I'm not going to read it, but just share it. And if anybody's interested, I'd be delighted to connect. I'm hoping to launch a course at the beginning of 2023, what I'm calling the 100 day equity moonshot quest, which is about how to develop big hairy audacious questions that challenge our mindsets. So that's my little update and I'll put the abstract in and if anybody wants to connect, I don't know sure if I can fit it in because there may be some limit to the size that you can put the text box. I may have to break it up into small little segments. I'm done speaking. Does it exist online in some place. I'm going to put it in as a LinkedIn article, but I've just got a few people that I want to run it by first and then probably come out on Monday, but I'll just put little segments of it in and break it up that way. Thanks. And Pete found and put the link to your LinkedIn post about equity moonshot in the chat. So that's already in there. Okay, well that's great. Okay, thank you. And could you just as an example like what does an equity moonshot look like smell like taste like. And the definition, as I mentioned is about co designing and building an equitable regenerative sustainable future and the reason why equity is the forefront of the virtues there is because our systems are designed for inequities. As long as we are living in a neoliberal world, we're not going to change that. And so if we're going to shift towards a regenerative ecological economic and energy renewal renewable systems, then we're going to have to completely flip our economic paradigm, which is incredibly difficult to do. So it's really about how to cultivate meta thinking about how to design our systems. And in that article, there are five layers of big hairy audacious questions and I invite people to add their own starting the meta macro me so micro and nano which is, which is to do with intra being. I appreciated Mark's authentic being at the beginning because he was speaking from the heart for from his into being and that is something that is critically important. If you're going to in turn influence how we think at a metal level. So it's how to take a holistic ecological approach to this if that makes sense. Thank you. I think it does. Yeah, that added clarity. Mr friend. Thanks for joining us. And it's you then me. Hi, everybody sorry for being late. And, and I've been asking everybody to put one word into the conversation that has been on their mind either long term or in the last five minutes but something significant so we've had a bunch of really interesting different words come through. Thank you. Thank you I was wondering on the context that I had stepped into. Carl was talking about dignity and dignity has been a word that's been alive for me lately, in particular, we may have talked about this before. In a conversation where people are talking about their great anger at all that's wrong in the world today. And I said, no, no, you're not angry you're indignant. And I loved what what what that stone thrown into that pond I love the ripples that came from that because it felt in indignation sense of the violation of dignity felt like a much more powerful place to stand than standing in anger. I'm glad to hear the echoes of Bishop to two and others in there so I think that's a, it's a, it's a rich word for us to explore the moment. So the other one word for me these days is serenity, and how to, which is the challenge of how to be serene in the face of all the turmoil that we're living in, she don't anticipate it's going to end anytime soon. And I know people who, who are intensely buffeted in their moods by the events of each particular day. The headlines this morning good or headline bad and the mood for the whole day is set by that. And so I'm in a practice to, to not deny or ignore any of that stuff but to sale the storming seas with a much more even. So serenity. Thanks, Gil. I like the word equanimity which is sort of similar to it and, and this is going to be a funny, funny thing maybe to join this with but I think this the concept became a little clearer for me years ago. I was talking with a friend, a really long time ago colleague and he talked about going to his first paintball match and how like his nerves were like he was like really really sort of jittery and nervous. And how at some point somebody just sort of walked up to him and ping shot him like right there because he was busy like reloading and trying to figure out whatever and, and, and he, the conversation was something about how just being calm and that stressful situation allowed you to sort of move slowly and the Navy SEAL say slow as smooth smooth as fast that that presence of mind equanimity serenity, whatever that is in moments of crisis is pretty. I think crucial for being able to respond and stay centered and you know be good in emergency because otherwise, otherwise you just adding to the emergency because you wind up slipping into crisis yourself and then we need to figure this out for you. So one of the things we know this in martial arts, my martial art is Aikido, and there are moments in Aikido where you're doing a really difficult and interesting move, and you're in the middle of chaos because everybody on the mat around you is doing the same move and you're trying not to hit them, never mind, you know, throwing and being thrown, and you get this sense of, oh, like, things are really in motion and I kind of know where I am in the motion and I'm participating in the motion and helping it move along and it's a beautiful kind of coordinated feeling. Mark. Um, so I'm a Orange County punk from the 80s. Go see. Yeah. Me too. Me too, by the way, Marina High School. Really? What high school? Marina High School, Hornington Beach. No. Yeah. Did you know Laura Baker? Good Lord, no. My graduating class was 995 kids. Are you kidding me? No, no, no, no. I mean, gosh, I was like my first real, real sort of wanting to have kids and. Oh my God. Yeah, no, I might have crossed paths with her. I went to university high and everybody. And I went to UCI my whole four years underground. I went to UCI as a senior in 1980. Crazy. Yeah, it was, it was fun. Anyway, so as a punk. Um, Janet, um, who is just so lovely. A lot of Virginia tour, um, basically, um, had a dad with sayings and one of his sayings was life isn't fair, but it is short. Um, and, um, I'm reflecting on Gil's notion of serenity. And Janet would say, I don't wear clothes as a costume. I wear them as a disguise to fool people. Um, and serenity can be used for that while the heat, the inner heat of indignation boils and it gives you energy. But you hide that and you just kind of come with serenity in your interface with the others. Yes, it's a thought. I like that thought. I like that a lot. Thanks, Mark. Um, and, uh, Gil. I'll just add one more. I like that a lot, Mark. Indignation is not something to be thrown about all the time. It's to be used very selectively. And yeah. And like you say, you know, held within in a way and let out in certain times in certain ways. Yeah. Nicely put. Indignation is also kind of a tactical weapon and, uh, has been wielded incredibly well by the rising far right. And there's a thought in my brain now about Democrats finally getting pissed about stuff. And it has a links to a couple of YouTube recordings of, uh, the woman from Wisconsin or Minnesota from the local. A house who got really mad at a woman who took out an ad calling her a groomer and a bunch of other stuff. And then Joe Biden, strangely enough, just in the last week, has started to show some, uh, I don't know exactly what we shall call it here, but some spine, perhaps. Uh, and it's coming out in a way that's really different from his normal tone and manner, even though it looks a lot like his normal tone and manner, but it's different. And that's really interesting because indignation properly applied, uh, also attracts attention and becomes a bit of a motive force. But anybody hasn't seen the, the Joe Biden, um, viral, um, you know, is releasing his indignation about Republicans claiming to be the party of law and order. And at the same time being fond about cops being killed by Donald Trump's ego, uh, leading people. Um, I highly recommend it. There's also the dark Brandon meme, which is quite interesting. Um, and kind of love a lovely twist on things. Um, so I'm going to cheat a tiny bit on my word, uh, because I want to sort of put a couple of words in the conversation. Anybody who's been to my retreats knows that my word almost consistently was intent and that is still a hugely important word for me. And then my recent work, uh, it seems to be a lot about memory. Like, why don't we have a better memory? How do we build a shared memory? Uh, how do we forget things so quickly? How do we adapt so quickly to terrible circumstances or systems? Uh, all those kinds of things. And then this shift that I perceive that we're going through. So I was sort of getting the shift. And then I realized, um, I realized that my word needs to be focused right now because I am so distracted by everything that's going on. And that I'm having a really hard time just. You know, just being on the path and doing the things that need to get done day to day. Uh, and so I think my word is focused. Um, because I lack it. I'm, I'm eminently excited about everything. These conversations spin me up like you wouldn't believe. Uh, I have a, you know, 10 tabs open in my browser, which I will go harvest and collect up to attach to the notes to download the radio to upload that. And like often off to the races, uh, for, you know, you know, the things that you all have offered into the conversation as ingredients in the, in the stew. Um, And, and somehow in amid those words is, uh, the thing I would love to figure out how to build or do for how to use my life energy around here, which is, um, how to call a mate the energies of people who have similar kinds of wishes and desires and aspirations. Um, how to come in and do that. Uh, yeah. No, you don't want to see my browser. It's got more than 10 tabs open. The 10 tabs are new ones from this particular call. I mean, They're way too many times open in my browser. Just in case you were worried that I was actually achieving some browser discipline. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Don't, don't worry about that. Um, so anyway, that, that's kind of where I am. And, uh, And, um, I'm no physicist, but laser is collimated light. It's basically light brought into a synchronous frequencies so that it has more energy and can burn a hole or melt something or do whatever else. Um, And so I think of it as collimation of human energies and human intentions in some very intangible way. And I think that's, that's a piece of this is like, how do you stand in a series of waves and ripples and act like a Pacific Island navigator. Understand the swells and what they mean in terms of what land masses they're bouncing off of and where the prevailing winds and currents are. And what other energies are actually in the waters. Uh, because, and this I'm sort of taking from my keto. Um, I think that you blend with the energies that are in the waters to redirect them toward a better outcome. One of the nice things about it keto is that it's a defensive martial art. Um, and there's no, there's no, there's no like keto competitions. Uh, there's demonstrations. That's about it. And really you're trying to neutralize your opponent and you're trying to stop a fight or get away. Uh, and not hurt somebody. So it's very funny. We have a very martial. One of our sense is, we'll have to, you know, we'll have to say the word and we'll say it. Um, He'll say, but we're a key but we're a good. I key to us. So we won't take the opportunity to rip the person's spine out right now. And instead we will gently like do this and and apply a pin, but, but here are the three things you could have done along the way and look how nasty they would have been and everybody kind of chuckles. Um, and, and that's what's happening right now in the I think that we, you know, we need to figure out how to be our own how to pick up our own martial arts how to step into the arena. Say what we mean be as present as we can be harness our other modes of being the way showed up a lot in this call today. And bring those to the party as well because they're equally important. And trying to figure out what to do. Mike, yeah, I'm really interested because for me for a while, the Trump documents kerfluffle seemed to me to be a cheap way for Trump to get attention and one of my inferences from Trump, I have a whole thought in my brain about Trump's playbook, basically the tactics he loves to use and there are many, many, many tactics he loves to use and is really good at using. And I thought that one of his main guidelines was attention is good, it doesn't matter if they're, if they're hating on you, like any airtime is really good. And if we were busy spending on you know, I got classified documents and so forth. But it appears that he's gotten himself in some serious ass trouble with these documents and this could actually be the Al Capone kind of, you know, Al Capone didn't go to prison for for killing anybody went to prison for tax evasion. And so don't never underestimate the National Archives and Records Administration. So, I'll hail narrow logo, as this thing goes, Mark, did you want to jump in as archivists were at the Internet archive we're thrilled that archivists are going to take down Trump, we're just over the moon. So, watching YouTube, John Dean product sell Trump will react to redacted after David. And the first comment, at least when I had it open was by a man named Craig Dylan. I'll read it quickly. A big problem with all these analysts that try to put consistent reasoning to Trump's actions is that Trump does not think any rationally consistent manner. He will do things that are totally contradictory. He confuses everyone by doing that. That confusion is not really intentional, but it often seems planned and intentional, it puts everyone off their game. Speaking to myself, holy shit, with all the chaos that I've created. I'm the reverse Trump. I am doing things that people don't understand. And just because they don't understand doesn't mean that I don't understand but there's a communication pathology. I put people off their game by moving quickly and improving things secretly. And I really believe in improving things secretly, because basically, you don't get flack of people don't people don't even notice. And you just make make things better. And don't take credit and just, you know, move on. Without that communication. Again pathology that we're talking about so much about misunderstanding and, and the hard hardness of people's hearts. I thought that was a very interesting observation about, you know, Trump's actions. They're not necessarily intentional. I don't think he's smart enough, but he's found a pattern that works for him. I think the demonic secret is safe with us. And you just kind of triggered something for me where I have a funny long standing debate with a couple friends of ours. I'm just using a word like intelligence with connect connected to Donald Trump and they're like no he's an idiot he's dumb. I'm like, he's done a lot of stuff that's smarter than you think and so I just posted some links there to how smart is Trump, a video that I posted some time ago after the 2016 election. And I think that he's actually a lot smarter than we think one tiny bit of evidence for me is Trump is a better caricature of the greedy billionaire than Thurston howl the third from Gilligan's Island. The caricature I think is really intentional the red long tie the golden hair, the, you know, the triphid on his head. The whole thing is like, extremely intentional because the caricature actually is memorable and carries and it's really hard to pay attention to the clown as a serious one of the reasons why he was able to wipe out 17 competitors in the Republican primaries was that he was the clown that nobody took seriously until it was too late and he won the nomination. And he appears out of the mists, you know the Republican National Convention only I can can can fix this. Like, wow, that like he's, and he also thinks extremely long term like a good mafia Don, the reason we can't pin him down now the reason that Michael Cohen his lawyers like he never says explicitly go do this thing go wipe out that thing because that would be intimidating and that's evidence and Roy Cohn his coach and mentor taught him not to do that. So he's really good at that discipline to the point where I've got a thought in my brain called crimes crimes Trump has likely committed, which involves an entire galaxy of crimes that that none of which so far have landed him in orange. And so, so anyway there's a whole, you've opened a whole Pandora's box for me because I don't think he's stupid and I think Miss underestimating Donald Trump is extraordinarily dangerous which is one reason to stand on that topic of he's smarter than you think he is beware, because because he will bite. Rick, and then guilt. Yeah, just to dovetail on that. I mean, Trump is an emotional servant to our amygdala reptilian brains. I mean he is a master of that he's smart in that domain, but not any of cortical level but he knows how to whip the mob up and keep them in his hands fixed in his trends. Anyway, that's a punctuation I don't want to go on that too long because it's not going to change quickly but the one thing as I was listening to people today. You know, I mean certain words just stood out there were a number of virtues that people spoke to love etc. And one of the questions I put in there is what are the constellation of virtues that we need to cultivate to ex for exponentiating ethical transformations. One of the things that I feel that we don't do a good job as is differentiating between virtues and values, and we tend to mix them up. And as a simple aphorism, I would say that virtues align us, but values divide us. And if we don't make distinction clear, then we are getting, we get sucked into dysfunctional polarization that's a very quick summary and I'm not done speaking. Thanks Rick. A nice quote on virtues and values for that is that is that yours or is that we tribute that to you. I haven't found if somebody else has made it up it's a coincidence and I can attribute to the. I'll attribute it to you back on Trump real quickly we've marveled at how, how little. Anybody speaks of him as a mafia Don and his family is a crime family, because it's got all the characteristics that I would have been wondering for you know since 2016, why they aren't rolling Rico out against him because it's classic in every way. The other surprise there is that Bloomberg in, I guess was 2017 said, you know, everybody in New York knows he's a crook nobody will do business with him because he doesn't pay anybody. But Mike, why didn't you say that during the campaign. Absolutely. Well, not only that but one of his tactics is basically Darbo accused the other side of exactly what you're doing. So there's an entire trope of the Biden crime family that that Trump and the Trump delegates basically utter all the time constantly. And it's like, and it takes, and it takes a lot of balls to do that to really really kind of like out there to do the extreme thing to do. And Trump's followers love that about him. Well, he appears to be the gutsiest player in the arena. And some days I think he actually is. Well and it's remarkable watching all his media acolytes pivot instantly every time the story changes. You know, the new script races through the Fox universe and everywhere else. Notably yesterday, who was it Lauren so Donald last night pointed this out on MSNBC. Yesterday after the release of the department response and the photos. The right wing media sphere was quiet for an entire day I don't know if they're up enough there figures something out today but they had nothing to say. Maybe the only time the last four years that's happened. Well what's happening now is Lindsey Graham is saying there will be violence in the streets. And it's like, well, huh, that's where they've gotten to like there's no defense. But hey if you actually go ahead and prosecute we're going to we're going to riot and up and rise up and I'm like, yeah, doesn't sound that sensible but it's and if we don't prosecute in the face of threats of riots in the streets, it's game over. Absolutely. I'm shocked by his staying power. I keep thinking that he's going to suddenly like fall off the cliff or do whatever else and be gone but he's still not gone. I'm worried that there are lots of people competing to out Trump Trump like Ron DeSantis and others who are clearly making a performance art out of doing stuff that will attract attention in the same way so that they can be the younger faster sleeker, more modern Trump and that Trump isn't will outlast the Trump the Donald himself which is too bad. And I'm also aware we're near the end of our call and I would love to end on something that isn't about the Trump collapse. So, Michael got it. Well, I hate to disappoint you that I was going to say something. Go ahead, go ahead. It's optimistic in a certain way. I like that. I think the thing about Trump that that explains something if it's true is that he, it's not that he's smart it's not that he's done it's not that he's like, it's not that his gears are turning so much as that. It's a total lack of superego. Nothing in his brain ever says, but I shouldn't do that I shouldn't say that I shouldn't. There's no, there's no essentially force so he'll do contradictory thing anything that crosses his mind any urge any it you know he's just nothing and you can't fake that. And so nobody else will ever be another Trump I mean I don't I don't know if I've ever seen in public life somebody who just, you know, I mean he'll tell one lie one day and an opposite live the next day and just like never you know how can he say that how can he do that, because there's no part of his brain that feels guilty that wants to apologize. I mean he says he never apologizes won't apologize. He has no superego. So it's a strange mutation that I've never seen anybody else pull off but but I think people are are sort of drawn to God, what would it be like not to not to self censor in any way just to do whatever or any urge, you know, wanted me to do. That's, that's a was I optimistic check on him. And others, Michael I mostly agree with you, but I just want to point out that he has an, an exclusively tuned internal governance mechanism, in the sense of, if you're a mafia Don, there's a bunch of stuff you want to never say or do. There's a bunch of places you do not want to go because that leaves evidence and a trail or whatever else. And so, so you don't go there that's some kind of internal governance mechanism that I want to add to that that many people say that Trump has a really weak ego. I'm like, nobody with a weak ego would have survived the 2016 electoral campaign. He was, I saw some of the world's best humor applied against him viscerally. You know, and he survives and he's sort of somehow feeds off of being hated. And he understands the dynamic of this combat better than just about anybody else he in the 2016 campaign I saw that he understood the dynamics of modern media better than any other player on stage. He just was a complete master of it and everybody else including Hillary was clueless, just hopeless like like hapless I think is the word maybe. So anyway, I so I'm so I agreeing with your premise but I just want to fold in that he to me, he appears to have lots of self control in a weird way in the way a mafia Don has to have self control. Only about written records. But that's really big. Well no written records and no but also what he tells Michael Cohen he's like yeah you know it'd be shame if somebody had something happened to his cat is different is different from hey go put out a hit on this guy. Right. And to do that consistently for all these years. I've been following. Oh, someone has had a really good Jennifer Taub has had a brilliant thread on Twitter for the last couple days where she's going through the crimes Trump has committed. I'll post a link to the thread reader thread of it. And she's going way way back to the Taj Mahal to all sorts of things before that to like like, and before he was like that I read the making of Donald Trump I think it was called by David K Johnson an excellent investigative reporter. I'm like how, how does anybody going to vote for a guy who's been sued 4000 times and people like shit so much. And that forced me to think about what's appealing about that kind of character in this kind of time. Anyway, we're still talking about Trump mark. Go ahead. Hopefully this will be the last. There's joke. And I love the power ridicule and insight that comes from jokes. So, Trump goes into the Trump tower gets on his elevator all the way to where he's, you know, got the top floor this that the other. And right before the door closes this statuette blonde woman slithers into the, this is Trump and this one. Donald watching for many, many years. Really, really want to give you a blow job. What's in it for me. Like, all right. Let me read us a poem to take us out that has nothing to do with Donald Trump. One of my favorite poems in the world by Robert Francis called summons. It's pretty optimistic as you will see, and it goes like this. I'm not going to sleep too soon. Or if I go to sleep too soon. Come wake me up. Come any hour of night come whistling up the road stomp on the porch bang on the door make me get out of bed and come and let you in and light a light. Tell me the northern lights are on and make me look, or tell me clouds are doing something to the moon they never did before. And show me, see that I see, talk to me till I'm half as wide awake as you and start to dress wondering why I ever went to bed at all. Tell me the walking is superb. Not only tell me, but persuade me, you know, I'm not too hard to persuade. Thank you very much for a lovely lovely call. Pete thanks for posting the Jennifer Tubbs thread. That's fabulous. It's completely worthwhile reading, even if it's a little slow going because she's busy narrating her days and breaks and classes and everything else along the way, but it's, it's quite amusing. But thank you all. Everybody.