 ability on the Chapin Road. It's really basically a one-lane road. So in order for people to be able to visit the forest, our town forest, they have to park on the pecan and go in that way. And that is, although it is a class four road, technically, it's like a very rough trail now. In fact, there's a ravine there that's kind of collapsed. And in order to get through there, you have to go onto private property because you can't really go in and out of the ravine. So it's not very accessible from the pecan side. From the Chapin Road side, it's accessible, but there's absolutely no place. Well, maybe this one car or two cars maybe to park. And so the Conservation Commission, after seeing it, decided that we would like the public to be able to visit this forest without having to trek over private land from the pecan. And that would mean building a some kind of parking area at the, basically at the entrance to the forest. And so some of the members of the Conservation Commission and Alfie and some of the neighbors and Paul Hannon, who was looking at it from a surveyor point of view without charge, we met out there and we all looked at it and talked about it and kind of identified an area that is relatively flat. And it looks like that would be a good place to develop a parking area. And as Alfie just mentioned to you, we had this discussion about whether this should be accessible year round and felt, well, yeah, it should be accessible year round. I mean, it's a town to town forest. And eventually what we want to do is work with the trails committee and develop some trails through the forest. It's really a lovely forest. You know, we really encourage people to go look at it. And anyway, so that's the idea. So in order to make it accessible, as Alfie explained, the little part of the road that goes into the forest would have to be widened. And there have to be a little turnaround in addition to the parking area. And we're talking about, you know, I don't know the exact dimension. So we're talking about maybe holding six cars. That hasn't been decided. But anyway, that's where we are with it. And we really, we need the permission of the select board to go ahead and do it. And it's already almost August. And we're feeling pretty bad. So much time has passed. And, you know, the forest still isn't really accessible, except, as I said, from the peak and going over private land. And there were some issues last year also at hunting season. We wanted to do our fall foliage walk through the forest. And we had it all set up. And then one of the landowners said, well, it's hunting season, you know, and I have my tree, my tree stand right near there. And I only get a good idea. So we canceled it. So is the idea that the cost of the estimated cost between $5,000 and $8,000 would come out of the conservation fund? Well, we don't know where it would come from. You know, I'm not sure it's something that meets any of the, I don't know if it meets the standard through the conservation fund. I don't know if it does. And I apologize for the interjection. This is Thomas Cronin. I just wanted to mention that myself and some other neighbors that live on the Espeepin Road have joined the call. And so we just hope that at some point during this conversation, we would be able to, to, you know, share our, our thoughts on it as well. If the select board is willing to hear us. Excuse me, thank you for interrupting. We see you and we plan to give you an opportunity to speak. Thank you, Denise. Yeah, I guess we have to work that out. So what are you going to let the members of the public speak? So you're looking for the select board to make a decision on moving forward with this project? Is that what you're looking for? We are looking for that. I mean, you know, as you know, the select the conservation commission doesn't really have much of a budget. We don't ask for much. I think we have $200 a year. I'm not sure whether this really fits any of the standards for using the conservation fund. We're not acquiring land. But in any event, you know, we can talk about that, but we were hoping that we would get a more specific estimate from Althe and then we would be able to talk in more detail about whether the select board would have the money to pay for it. I mean, it's not something that we budget for a budget season. So we have to see where we are with the highway budget. Okay, it's a town forest. I mean, you know, as you know, the the conservation commission just makes recommendations to the select board. We kind of managed the forests, but we don't have a budget to spend on the forests. I don't see if board members have any questions and then we'll go around and take comments from the on the neighbors. Yeah. So we have to hear the road commissioners. So this is for clarification purposes. This is both a question and a statement. My understanding is that the actual dollar costs outside of what we pay our staff, our highway staff, on a weekly basis in terms of their pay. The dollar costs will be, you know, gravel and that kind of stuff, very cool, maybe. We own a machine, like this wear and tear and the appreciation that goes a lot with that. How many hours do you think there are? It's always a couple of days. Couple of days. Yeah. I mean, so money out of pocket probably wouldn't be great. Because we already have the gravel. Well, we do, but it's still going to be a cost that would be money out of pocket. Whereas the labor and machine, as John said, we already own the machine. We're going to pay the crew. Anyways, it's just going to take a little bit of time from other projects. I don't see it being a problem. I wouldn't support it. But I think there are other issues that would want to be worked out before we do this, but I think money I can handle. And in terms of allocation of staff and resources, what is the best time to do it for you to do something like that right now? Because it's dry, it's, you know, not dealing with muddy, rainy stuff, and you know, I mean, not tomorrow, but because my estimator is in shock. But as you're making your schedule for the week, Yes, I could. Yes, I could make it happen relatively soon if the board decided that was what we wanted to do. Do you have any questions? Is it clear, six cars, is it clear where this would be? Is that part of what you guys kind of scoped out? Yes, we actually put stakes up where we thought the area would be. Are the stakes still there? I haven't been by for a while. It's sort of out of my travel path. I go out and check that road, but I turn around at our turn around, which is long before, because this parking area will be a stretch onto a private hand class four road, and then it'll go on to strictly class four. I mean, it turns to class four where we turn around is where it starts class four. Whereas some of this area is maintained by the development. It's a class four. They file it today into their development. Yeah, but if it's a private road. It's not private. I must find this book. It turns off the class four. It turns to a private road, which is Blackberry Ridge. That's where it's private. But some of that stretch getting to that is class four, which is still a town road, but they maintain it. They file it. So there, so let me just say, so the development, the Blackberry Ridge development maintains part of the town's class four road and maintains the portion that would lead to this six car spot. Okay. So in the winter, who would maintain, would we maintain this lot or would this be more spring and summer season? Well, that's a question that needs to be talked about is if this part of the area is going to be year round, then we would file that section because most likely we're going to have to file the turnaround, the parking area, as well as file an area for us to get there. Okay. So yeah, it's going to add a little bit more money to more time to that follow. If we wanted to go there. If we wanted to go with the year round. Yeah, we could just say no. Yeah, we could just not go year round. And yeah. Right. Right. They could ski in. They could, they could go. I mean, a lot of times of the year, you can still go without it being filed all year. You know, last year, we didn't really have deep snow and cold after January. So they could get a lot of use out of it. I just want to make sure that we're not going to be doing something on somebody's private. No, it's a class four. It would still, everything would be either on the class four or the town four. And Alfred, you mentioned a few minutes ago that there are other issues to look at. Well, I think that there's a few people on the computer that will think there's going to be a little bit of a pushback from this. We'll give them an opportunity. Stephanie wanted to. Well, I just want to clarify for Stephanie's boots. This whole chief and road development discussion for this development, I was granted to the town. So that's how long ago this was. So it's 2002. And I remember it's probably with the chair to start the board having a discussion with his board members, people man was on it. And then you fix your nose on it. Maybe these girls. But there was discussion about how do we get off the dime? There was a kind of a lot of jam and the developer of those things. We wanted to describe what was negotiating with the town and arrangement to a lot of development that happened. And the conclusion of that negotiation, which was voted on by a circle, the beauty of the circle, was they would fund the upgrading of the class four. It would still be a class four. But the thing was, you know, a rough would you take back country where it wasn't one that was realizable for development. And there's a lot of material to be done down. Senator was a real commissioner. And the select board authorized highway department to perform the necessary work that the commission said needed to happen. And the funding of that work was to be paid for and eventually that great work that was developed. And it was understood that the developer would make clear to the folks buying a lot that they were responsible for maintaining that class four road. So that was all part of the record back then. I don't know if it's in the D, but it's in the town record that arrangement. I remember this now. It's big. That's what I make that clear. That's kind of the background. Okay. Stephanie, one more comment and then I'll let the neighbors speak. I was mostly going to say what John said was to provide a little bit of background. Paul Hanin explained it to me when we were out there that it was going, the developer was required. Was required to do that. And I understand people said it is in the deeds that they have to maintain that part of the road class four. Because the developer wouldn't give it to the town. So that was the deal. All right. I'm going to go around the room. And I hope that if somebody, one of the neighbors says something that the other neighbor, if they're going to say the same thing, they'll make it quick. Kyle? Sure. Thank you, Kyle booth. Yeah. So I just wanted to express a concern that, you know, this, this plan seems to be not very fully thought out yet. There's a lot of questions of will it be, you know, seasonal or full-time use where funding will come from to pay for the project and then other items such as how this affects, you know, the wildlife and the habitat there and, you know, runoff with water, making the parking lot and where that water is going. So there are several considerations that we haven't seen full details to that we would really like to see, you know, before this does move forward if it does. Okay. So just to be clear, your concerns for the minutes are how it will affect the wildlife habitat runoff and was there something else? Seasonal, seasonal. Oh, the usage. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. And where funding is coming from for the project and what the true cost of the project is. I don't know what you mean by the true cost, but we just discussed that a few minutes ago. So I haven't seen estimates or, or, you know, itemized of what each piece will cost as far as what water runoff will cost. And I don't know if that's required at this point, but that's, you know, something that would be good to understand. Well, that's, that's typically not. Yeah. Yeah. We would follow the same erosion control practices as we do. I don't know if you've heard Alford, but we would follow the same erosion control practices as we do anywhere else. Yes, I heard that. Thank you. Danielle, did you want to go next? You have to unmute, Danielle. She's done. All right, Tom. Nope, not yet. Don't want to speak yet? Correct. Right, not yet. Right, Tom. So, yes, thank you for the opportunity to speak, and I apologize for the interruption. I appreciate you recognize us in attendance. My question is, or one of my questions, part of the discussion, and I'm still a little bit unclear. So, and Stephanie, thank you for the background there. It's maintained by the town to where the mailboxes are. And there is a plow turnaround there, and enough parking for maybe two or three cars. And then from the mailboxes to the beginning of Blackberry Ridge Road has been privately maintained by the residents of the sub development on Blackberry Ridge Road. So I'm wondering if parking lot was to get put for the use by the public to access this town forest. Would the residents of that subdivision be expected to maintain that section of the road from the mailboxes to the road sign? Because, you know, I'm just curious with higher, potentially higher traffic use, if that would increase the burden of cost to, you know, to us that live in the development back here. And then, oh, sure. Well, it's probably 300 feet, 400 feet from the mailboxes to Blackberry Ridge Road. And is that class 4? Yeah, it's class 4. Anything after the mailboxes is class 4 until you get to the Blackberry Ridge Road, which turns out to. I honestly don't know how much more traffic this will create. That's something that maybe the conservation can answer, what they expect for additional traffic. Now, as actually back to what John was saying, there's, there's ability to upgrade that road, and then the town would take it over. And it has to come up to a certain criteria, which I believe it's adding gravel will be the most expensive feature of that. You mean to drive it around to make it class 4? No, just to extend the, extend the class 4 part. So that would go beyond the Blackberry Ridge Road. But that was also part of the deal was that that could be upgraded if the developer paid for the gravel, paid for the upgrades. So that, you know, that's, I know that's going to create a whole lot more complication, but it's something that maybe we could look at because his concerns correct. There might be more traffic and is it fair for him for the development and then the people that live in this development to pay for the maintenance and then the public is allowed to use it. So I just got a legitimate point. I think it's something that we can work on. Yeah. Okay. Do you have anything else, Tom? Yes, and thank you, Alfred, for for addressing my concern. This is more of a suggestion, open question. You know, there is the parking lot currently on Peek and Road and the class 4 road goes from Peek and Road to Chapin Road, cutting through the town forest. Stephanie expressed before it does cross over some private land as well as a washed out ravine, but I'm just curious to know if the conservation committee is thinking of spending funds on allowing access to this town forest, if there is any consideration of using funds to you know, make that trail more accessible where there's currently existing parking. Is that a question from the conservation commission, Tom? Yes. Yeah, if Stephanie would like to or if Stephanie has considered that or if the select board is aware of any concerns due to, I believe that road is owned by the town, but then it crosses, and I know Stephanie expressed some concerns about how it crosses over private lands. I'm just not sure about how all that would work out. Well, the class 4 as it continues through and past this tentless road's turnaround, that's where it goes across private land. But that's, well, and so does Chapin Road for that matter. Every road goes through like a singleton there, across this private land. The town forest is town land that the class 4 goes through. Then it leaves the town forest property, and then on its way to Peking, and that little stretch there is private land either side of it. And it's a way like every town. Okay, all right. They keep saying private lands, that makes me think it's something that's actually accurate statement. So, Stephanie, what is it likely that the surveying will be done? Does that help us? Great. Can't hear you on mute. Yeah, I know you muted me. Not. I don't think it, I think Paul said it doesn't really need to survey because and I don't think, I think what he said was he went out there he said there's not really a question of where the property boundaries are. It's not really a question. The property boundaries are clear, according to Paul. As I recall, that's what he said. And so it runs along, you know, at that part where we are looking at the parking area, it just runs, the road runs on the edge of the forest. Let me put it that way. So it runs on the edge of the forest. The other thing, we did talk about it. I think Tom brought it up before and we talked about it with him and with Alfred, who thinks, I thought, Alfred said it would be really, really expensive to upgrade that into something that's passable. I mean, it's a ravine that collapsed. And, you know, it just, you know, that plus the fact that you have to walk a distance just to get in the town forest just didn't seem worth it. And that was sort of what we talked about. And as I recall, we talked about it with Althe, who said, yeah, it's like a big deal upgrading that road. We also talked about concerns about motor vehicles going, you know, into the forest, but there's a little parking area there. And what I understand is, because Alfred explained it to me, is that we can't, the town can't control, can't prevent access on a class forward, but it could be downgraded to a trail, in which case motor vehicle access could be prohibited. And that's certainly something that we would probably support. Moving this along, because we're getting behind schedule quite a bit here, Sharon, and then Danny, you'll have one last chance to make a three minute statement. There's Grace, too. No, Grace, it's you, something else. Oh, okay. So I just want to, I want to make sure that I understood the conversation a couple of minutes ago around the session, this class four, and the session we've been calling private. It's, it's a, is it a public right of way? The class four becomes a public right of way across private land? The whole class four is just like any other road in the town. Sure, that I get, but the both sides of the road, that's what I was confused on. Right, and it's just like any other road, it's a public road that comes up. So that's the term that I think that we need to remember is it's a public right of way. The road itself is not a private road. It's a public right of way across private land. That's completely normal thing. So we got to disassociate the word private. Right, and that's from a public right of way. Right, and thank you. The landowners keep using private roads. It's a public right of way, across private land. Every road here. Like every road in town. Okay, Danielle, you've got a couple of minutes to come in, and then I'm going to circle back to the board because I want to come up with next steps plan. So we live on basically on the other side of where that class four road is, where they're basically the neighboring there. And I worry about the trash. I worry about the liability. Where they access it right now from Pekin is a mess. Who is going to maintain keeping that cleared up? Is that going to be liability for us neighbors? There's so much water in through there. What if somebody is in the woods on the trail and goes on our side of it and gets hurt? Okay. All right. Our biggest concern is the liability. There's a lot of water and stuff down through there. We are on land that's on the other side of that. And my concern is the type of traffic that this is going to attract, the type of people that it's going to attract. If somebody is walking through there and wanders on to our side and gets hurt, who's going to be liable for that? Because I do not want that liability. So, if they wander on to our side of it, I guess my biggest concern is the type of people that this is going to attract in there. It's like to ride mountain bikes, burgers, with binoculars, nature free, and frankly, a map trail and everything else, we'd like to see more use. It's underutilized, if anything. I frankly, I think we're going to make an investment. I think you're not going to see many people showing up. Sorry, Stephanie. I just think that we have so much in terms of open land and woodland and opportunity. That people aren't going to, I know I'm not going to say I'm going to go hike that woods over there. I'm just going to hike the woods across the streets and my neighbors will. I don't think you're going to see much as I say you were wrong, but I don't see that as an extreme word. I think the biggest thing is having, you know, we have a daughter here that's, that I concerned about. We have our own trails. You know, we've got our own trails on our own side. You know, it's an uncomfortable feeling. And I guess I would want to see what's the cost difference going to be, making it accessible, where Peek and Burke is, or doing it from here. What's the difference in cost going to be? Trails to trail. You can't walk through it. You should get a hug. I think it's pretty sandy there. It would be like a little bit of a main thing. Then you're going to see flowers. Now you're going to see four-wheelers cutting through and people cutting through much trucks on three weeks. Again, the road is a road that people are going to show that for one reason only. They're not going to use it as a cut-through or a shortcut to get to that and then be in broke. If we open that up, that is likely what will happen will become a shortcut. And you're going to see a lot of traffic. And also, on your private land, you can do private land. If you have trails, the ones that you cut through the woods. I'm sorry, I didn't catch on. There we go. And it's for all of us, frankly, that's what the parking area is for. The folks on that bike ride a mountain bike in, and they're already doing it, if they're interested. So it's eight o'clock and we have the backup. Sure. It's like, is it? And then I guess I'd like to see a plan from Alfred and the Conservation Commission to work together to come up with a plan of what this would look like, what it would cost. Do we want to downgrade it from a class four road to a trail? To limit use by a motor vehicle. Right, so yeah, so that, you know, wouldn't be used by ATVs and things like that. And then come back to the board with a plan. Would that be specific? If we were to do a site visit, is that what we're assessing? I guess I just want to see where this place is. I mean, I can look right down there myself. I don't have to go up. Yeah, you could, yeah, we can go look at it from curious, but is there a specific issue that the select board is assessing? Well, if we were going to downgrade and we classify the road and to trail, then we could do that in 15 to 30 months now. Right, or we could wait for the conservation commission to make that recommendation. Yeah, right now. So the conservation commission, I don't know when you're meeting next, but could you and get together with Alfred and come up with a plan to get back to the board? Plan recommendations, right? One that's coming up is should it be downgraded? I think I just said something about downgrading it to a trail. Yeah. And whatever else you think we need to have to make this decision. And then let us know when you're ready to have it back on the agenda with the information. Well, what else do you need to know besides the cost, the actual physical location of where the parking area would be? I guess with specificity, although we pretty much know. I have some kind of a drawing with what the plan is that Paul Hannon has stated that we don't need a survey just so we have documentation. Well, and the conservation commission clearly in their minds, has a sense and idea for what they want to see. They anticipate this work effort is going to lead to the level of utilization and the folks who might utilize it in my part. I know I have my opinion about it might be, but it might be very different than what maybe I spoke at a turn, Stephanie, about who you anticipate to be utilizing. Maybe the conservation commission is going to do nature walks periodically. I don't know, but we're going to have that distilled out so the neighborhood has a better understanding of what you're seeking to do here. Yeah, I mean it puts everybody on notice with what the project is. We talked about this. It's really the trails committee that has the experience with the trails in town and I had already suggested to these folks that they contact the trails committee, talk to Tom Blatchley about what their experience has been, because the conservation commission doesn't normally develop trails. We've worked over the years. We've developed some trails a little bit or identified trails in the Blishtown forest, but we're working with the trails committee. So I just wanted to, you know, yeah, that's all good stuff, but mostly it's the trails committee and not us. Okay, well somebody needs to take the lead. Nobody else has contact the trails committee. I also want to make another suggestion that select board go out and look at it, you know, yourselves. It's really beautiful out there, you know, go out. We just talked about that, but we need to wrap this up for the way behind. This is taking away more time than I thought it would. So, so I'm going to say a conservation commission. I'm going to have you guys take the lead if you need to consult with the trails committee. Come up with working with Alfred. We need to have a plan. We could actually, one thing we could do is ask the trails committee to watch tonight's movie from what seven 40 to eight. So yeah, we're going to collaborate with the conservation commission and come back. What on the ninth or on the next one. Katie, can you put that in the minutes please? And Stephanie, when you were recapping Denise, even when we talked about it, I didn't hear the question come from Stephanie. Did you hear us talking about the question of whether the public right of way should be downgraded to a trail? Now, whether the class four road to be downgraded to a trail, just a different word. Yeah. Public right of way. Well, so you were distinguishing the part, okay. Yes, it's all public right of way. It's all class four all the way through. It's all class four. So there is no such thing as even a something else that's Okay. There is no such thing. Yeah. I think it was confused. There is a private road. But I get that. Off from the class four. I get that. I thought there was something sort of non bike only ish that was being called. That's okay. There's a washout. And so it's cause people have to go. Okay. So I made a note. I will email Tom Latchley. Right. He's our chair. Ask him to please watch the movie tonight from what 740 seems about right? 730. All right. To eight to understand the discussion about chicken, chicken forest and trails slash. Yeah. And to coordinate with the conservation mission. Okay. And then the next second meeting of August is when we want to talk about it again. Yeah. For only 15 minutes. You know, 10 minutes. Yeah. Got it. All right. Thank you folks. Thank you. Thank you. Okay. And no road. Yeah. Oh. How's it going? How are you? Fine. Good. So I just wanted to attend tonight and just provide a quick update on, you know, funding options for this culvert. I talked with Rick over the phone last week or maybe this week. The days all blur together. So we talked about the brick program, which is a new FEMA grant program that started last year. And my recommendation, you know, you don't need to decide anything tonight. The application doesn't come out until the end of this month or early next month. But I think it would be, you know, a good application to go after. And this would be funding a scoping study. So it would be building off of what you all have already done, looking at the brook and looking at alternatives for the town hall and for the culvert. And it will kind of build on that and just develop an alternatives analysis for, you know, what are some alternatives for upsizing the culvert. And then it would develop some concept designs for the preferred alternative. So this would be funded through FEMA, through their brick program. It would require a 25% match, but you wouldn't need to have the match identified at the time that you apply. You would just need to sign a letter saying, you know, we commit to providing a match. So that's something that you. I think it could be in kind. Yes. I'll confirm that. Hang on just a minute. I'm sorry to interrupt Katie. I've got this memo called up. Can anybody see it on Zoom? Can you see the memo? No, do you want to screen share it? Denise, or should I find it? Okay, I got it. Cool. I just need to figure out how to get back there. Um, it's not letting me do anything. Well, in the essence of the time, Katie, you want to just call it up because it's not working. Okay. Almost. So sorry, so you said you in your memo. You're telling us that option one is like the one you would recommend. Yeah. So there, there are a couple of different kinds of projects you can apply for under this program. The one I'm recommending is the scoping project. Because the other two options, they basically just require like a lot more information than the town has at this point. Like option two and option three, you would have to do a benefit cost analysis, which is super complex and it requires, you know, it requires a more complex understanding of, you know, the alternatives and what you would be looking to do. So the idea here is that you would do a scoping study first, then you would get all that information through that scoping study that you would then use in another application to fund the actual culvert replacement or upsizing. If that makes sense. Great. Denise found the memo. She, I just saw this tonight and it was put back in 2018. And they had, I think, V-trans to a Doug Newton view an estimate on that replacement replacement. It was around the $300,000. But they also said that, you know, the work on the town hall basically put that out on the VCA. So they raised that basically to mitigate the flood damage and be sort of any VCA or any damage mitigation to basically be run and would it be significant enough to be able to justify that and that VCA, that would be the cluster. Are we running down? Right. By doing it, so we're running down a flying alley. Yeah, that's a good question. That's a good question that I don't have the answer to, but you know, yeah, that's a good question. That's something I can think about because it certainly wouldn't be, you know, cost effective to do this project and then discover that the VCA, so FEMA requires, for context, FEMA requires, you know, a certain score on that benefit cost analysis to allow them to give the go ahead to actually, you know, fund implementation of the culvert. But what I would say is that, you know, there are other funding sources that the town could look into to fund the upsizing of the culvert in the future. So you don't necessarily, you know, you're not necessarily committing to using FEMA for all stages of the project. So FEMA would require a VCA to, you know, fund the implementation, but not all funding sources would. So the scoping we would need, yeah, we're going to need that for any source. Right. Yeah, that's the first step, yeah. I was just wondering on that particular grant, you know, for the book, I mean, there's a whole lot, you know, but yeah, if we do that, this turns into a broader brush. Scoping study to really develop alternatives and then prefer an alternative. And then we, the question is on that, can we get the funding for, can we get any funding for this for scoping? We have through that exact, you know, without that, without that VCA in place. Sorry, can you repeat that question? Can we get, I mean, should we, since we, we may not listen, unlikely that we'll get a benefit cost level of, you know, that we would earn one of the, the brick funding. I mean, can we do this scoping study and have that still funded? Like, are you saying, can you do a FEMA, can you apply for a FEMA grant now, even if you don't necessarily want to use FEMA in the future? To move forward on this, we decided to do this scoping study. We're going to be applying for kind of planning money to do that, correct? Yeah, yeah. Is that going to be contingent on getting a successful VCA on? No, because the whole, no, because the whole, that's a good question though. So the whole intention of, you know, the scoping is to gather all of that information, but FEMA doesn't, you know, part of the scope of this project application would be, you know, developing that VCA. So FEMA doesn't need to see any kind of VCA information in this application. That comes after the scoping. So it's not contingent. Yeah. I'm just making sure that wouldn't be contingent on it. Right, yeah. Okay, so when Rick or Grace, when do we have to make a decision? He said we didn't need to make a decision tonight, but it says late summer. We're getting close to late summer, right? Yeah, I wouldn't say you need to make a decision tonight. This was more just for your information. The application is probably going to be released late August. I'm guessing probably closer to early September. And then the applications are actually due to VEM in January. But what we would need is kind of the go ahead from the select board, you know, once the application is out, I can review it and send you all some information on what exactly would be required. And then maybe the select board can meet again and actually, you know, give the go ahead. And then that would be needed to kind of get the ball rolling, set it up in the FEMA online system and all of that. So I would say mid, late September would probably be a good time to aim to take this up again and then maybe just give the go ahead or, you know, make the decision at that point. I think we'll, I would suggest that we leave it to you and Rick to figure this out and get back to us when we need to put it on the agenda again. Is that okay? Okay. Yeah. Correct. Until the end of the month. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, and this was me. Yeah, that sounds good. And also, let's not forget to include Alvin. So late September, it'll be here with a clear, okay, here it is. Yeah, that's the idea. Yeah, that'll give me time to look at what would actually be required and Rick and I can talk about, you know, what the level of effort would be for the application. The good thing, yeah, the good thing is that the Pekingbroek, you know, the town hall study that was done in 2018 or maybe a little bit before that, it has a ton of information that can be added into the application. So, you know, a lot of what you need is already there. Do you have this? If you want me to send it and email it to you and Rick. You want me to send it to you and Rick? Yeah. Yeah, I wouldn't get it. It's usually a copy of that. It's usually a copy of that if you don't have a copy of that. Okay, thank you, Grace. Yeah. Thank you. All right. Moving right along. Hey, Alfred, do you want to ask me to put this on the end of crew hourly rate? Yeah, I'm just wondering what I can offer a new employee in the chance that one comes along. Well, you know what? He's done experience. He's done experience. You know, we don't have any framework yet. When you hired Tyler, he had experience driving stuff on the farm and all that. And when you hired Jacob, he didn't have any experience. Right. And Jacob didn't have a seat. Right. Tyler came in small. No, Tyler. No, Jacob didn't have. Oh, he did. Tyler didn't have. Tyler. Right. I remember you. He had trained up very soon after using our equipment. And this is something that we're continuing to work on is looking at things to do with the road crew, salary, benefits, all those kinds of things we talked about having a committee with some very set and clear criteria to review. And this network hasn't had a chance to meet, to review some of the criteria and, you know, look at who would be on the committee. You would be, obviously, a lot of committee. So I know it's hard right now. I mean, what if we provide out for the range that you can decide between what was the lowest he started, Jacob, while we started the lowest tomorrow? Jacob was a 16 when he started, and so Tyler was 18 when he started. But then 16 now is pretty good, just because of inflationary adjustments over the years this year. So if he were to start now, considering those percentage increases due to cost of living adjustment, no less, what would that be? That would be the base. And then there might be some range. I mean, if you hired somebody in, and they ended up starting at a higher range than what Tyler's currently making, that's going to be a problem. That's going to be a, that's why I'm bringing it up. It's going to, you know, and also Bruce, I mean Bruce has a fair amount of experience and certainly if I start somebody out more than him, even if he's got the same amount of experience, the new guy, it's still going to be a long way. And I just think, you know, I just want to know, so I can be prepared to tell a potential employee Right, I'm going to ask a part right now. Should be below Tyler, but I don't know. So I'm going to clean up Jacob's study of legibility and add a little Tyler, which is right. So Tyler is 18 to change. Right, exactly. Thank you. So I already looked at some. 1850, so. So I guess, you know, this gets back to this left board wanting to really delve in and look at some other towns and just some more, and I know you need an answer. Well, I'm in a range, I mean, because. They've been giving that though. Right, it was 18 to 20 the last time. That's what, that's what the board is giving to New York. Currently, I just want to double check that. And if it's 18 or 20, then I'll go with that. And but that's what we're going to get for an employee. You're going to get an 18 or $20 man. And that's, it's becoming harder and harder to find. I've heard it's really people that are that have this experience have this interest to come and work for $18 an hour. We were very lucky when we got Tyler. So the question you're raising the offer fits into a different framework that is what is the conversation you're having right now. But what Denise just said, where we are, we are not, and you know us well enough to know we're not going to answer that kind of a question on the fly. You have very recent experience in hearing from us. The entire eighth person. But and your questions scream for the fact that we need a stronger system that you feel comfortable that we have authorized you to work within. But we don't have a system answer right now. You have a range of either whatever we hired or Jake about a few years ago up to, you know, whatever we talked about with Tyler. It's kind of roughly where we are for this hire without making any more of a commitment from that. So I will verify what Tyler is making right now. And that's as high as I can go. No matter what experience I have. I mean, if I find a guy that's out now and he's been in this business before. Um, I'm still, I mean, can I at least have the option of coming and talk to you and saying, look, I got this guy just that's interested, but he's not going to come for for 1820 and wants 21. I mean, that's what we have to do is get, we have to get this priority across to get the right age. Yeah, so we get this back to scale. Even if we don't get some of the other information gathered, this will be a top priority in the minutes. Select or we'll get the hiring. This road cruise salaries and hourly rates and almost the hourly things. Yeah. And I know that I'm looking on VLCT. There is a ton of road type jobs available. Oh, I don't believe many want to do this job. All right, you're seeing all the trades here. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I mean, it's across the board with a gallon space, 14 bucks an hour. Yeah, it's hard to, yeah. Well, I mean, is there an average thousand for flaggers, flaggers to stand out beside the road with a flag in your hand, they're paying $18 an hour. I know. You have very little experience to run a flag. I'm sorry, nothing against flaggers, they're a very important job. They don't have a CDL license. They don't have equipment experience. They don't have all this stuff that is required for this job. Right. No, I get it. So I feel like we really need to hustle on this because winter's coming and we are very short on it. I'm just urging you to. Yeah, I know. We hear you loud and clear because like I said, I've been looking at stuff online and it's crazy. Yeah. I'm sorry, I can see you back there. Because at some point, I can see the race again. In order to expedite, if we do actually get a candidate and there is a financial decision that's to be made by the board, you can't wait for the next meeting or two weeks later. It needs to be an immediate decision. So continuing to start a process for Alfred to be able to do a candidate and James to be set up. Okay, so we got to stand it in the immediate time. That's why we just said, is it a race? It's a race, but do you think it's a partner? Well, if you kind of have that kind of idea, then I think you ought to be flexible because we are, I don't even think it's a somewhat crisis situation. But we've been led to her struggle. We've had other employees that are currently making. No, thank you. So we have to rapidly move. So again, you guys rapidly move. We have to do this. Right. And we understand that's a conversation. What happened? I don't understand that. I just want to. And if Alfred comes to us and says, I got to do this right now. Will we have to remember this meeting? That's what I'm talking about. How do we do the character to the race? Can we just sweeten this final one? What if we use that? I'm going to write this or something. I'm going to write this. Sign-on bonuses. I think there was a lot of the same issue that Alfred brought up. Right. I mean, we already have some issues with some of that. And if we start, we give a new person a hiring bonus. And the other folks haven't received a bonus. So being able to make people make just needs to be a top priority. Yeah. And I want to say the same thing we said when we were hiring before. That there's, we have grand visions as we discussed earlier about how we want to be working with the highway crew and see integration with conservation commission and other pieces. You've heard us talk about, as you're hiring Alfred, making sure that you are setting clear expectations and not over promising based on. Well, that's why I brought it to the board. Well, when you're talking about money and I'm talking about other things. The hours, the hours, the schedule, the meeting, lunch, when you're going to drive to greater, you know, some of those things that seem to be part of the culture. And we've heard maybe our things that were set as an expectation coming in. And we asked you last time, and I'm not saying you did that, just whining. Don't, don't be careful about that. Right. Well, again, that's another thing that needs to be expedited because I'm hiring new people. I need to know what your expectations are if they're changing from what I am accustomed to. Alfred, we have said that over and over. Do not hire with those expectations on the table. Do not make those promises as part of the hiring. We have been crystal clear about that before. Okay. Absolutely. But you're not telling me what the changes are. So I'm supposed to tell this new employee, you know, what, I think there's stuff going to be changing. Just be ready. I mean, what do you want me to tell this new employee? So what do you tell, what do you tell employees? It's, I tell them what we, what's in place now. What is going on right now? I mean, that's our, that's our schedule. We were seven to four. You guys got to give me direction. I can't make up your mind. I can't read your mind. If you're asking them to make changes, make the change and I'll follow. Earlier, you said something about interrupting and you just interrupted me. So tell us what it is you tell employees now about what they can expect if they come to work on the town of Calis. 40 hour a week, do they get what time, what, what are the hours? Exactly what it is. I mean, there's six to four, four days, four days a week, 10 hours. There are times that you're going to have to come in and do if there's an emergency or a situation. There's, there's 12 days of sick time. There's a vacation. I know that like the back of my hand when I explain it to them about winter operations. They know they're going to probably be on call. Absolutely. And that's why we can't get anybody to sign up because they don't want to come to work at two in the morning. I know. And what do you tell them about lunch? Lunch is a half an hour. And I've been telling them as it is. I mean, we've only, I've only hired one person since any of this has started. So they know that they don't get to leave early by working for lunch. So the issue is the other guys are all doing six to four. We haven't done it. We had that conversation in the union discussion. That was our term that, that contract was finalized. That would have been a clause in there that that would have, that shift didn't happen. Right. Right. It didn't happen folks. None of the pay scale happened. Nothing happened. That contract never happened. That says if that discussion never happened. I totally understand that. That I totally understand that. That doesn't mean that Alfred doesn't change how he talks about what kind of commitment the town, because you heard it over and over. I've been on the board for. Right. I've heard that there's been some changes, Sharon, but I don't know what those changes are. Alfred, we haven't made changes. We've told you, and there's, there's memos from before I was even on the board saying the board doesn't like that schedule. Stop it, Alfred, back it up, change it up and continually, continually, continually, we hear from the group that that's an expectation. And that's part of what the promise to them when they're hired. And I'm saying that that, that message that comes from you and how strongly you set that message to change, because you, you heard us over and over and over saying, we don't like that. We want more flexibility. Okay. Then make the change and I'll follow it. It's that simple. Just make the change. You guys are in the position to make a decision. Make a decision and I'll follow it. I'm not going to tell somebody something out of the cloud. Okay. It's a cloud. It's a dream of this record that we don't have. We don't pay you guys lunch. It's a dream that we don't cut down on overtime. All of this stuff. Stop it. It's true. It's, it's something in you guys' imagination. And, and I need to know what you want to do. All right. Just make a decision and tell me. I'll follow the fact that we negotiated it. It was an acknowledgement. It was an acknowledgement that that's a status quo. Whether we like it or not. I'm not going to mention the road commission that came up with this, but that came up and it was tolerated by every iteration of the select board. It was enough of an issue that we, it became an issue at the negotiating table. Negotiations fell apart as we all know. And you're still at status quo, which is what it's been. Right. So I'm with Alfred on this one guys. Yeah. And I'm the one who's very concerned. I don't like incorporated lunch. But I'm with him on this because we didn't make a change. No, we didn't. We complained, but we didn't take a vote. And, you know, frankly, I think we need to have said this in private conversations to each of you. Different phone conversations. I think we need to get off the fricking dime and implement a new salary schedule. It's fricking August. You know, the negotiations are a side thing. We could have done all that stuff on our own. Yeah. And if we really believe it, if we came to basically agreement the terms of that contract, and we think that's fair and balanced, we can implement the contract terms right now, as written without a union. Yeah. So I don't understand what we're doing. This is my one of my greatest frustrations here. And maybe I haven't been. I used to be more of some of my, I used to communicate better. But this is frustrating me. I said it is nothing stopping us from implementing those terms. We are expert to support and myself included, tripping over ourselves. And maybe and it's falling on him. Because he's out there dealing with the blowback and we show up and postulate and think and condor and worry and. Okay. The question is to me, where the term is a contract, they will be objecting this contract has nothing to do with it. I'm talking about way to the negotiations. They kind of fall apart. We're going to walk away with this membership. Wouldn't go with what was agreed upon. So that's. But we negotiated with the union and good faith, and we reached an accord with the union. And the last thing was ratification. So the union came, moved, we moved. And the experts at the table agree that this was a reasonable compromise, a reasonable settlement that provided the benefit to the town and town's employees that was equitable. And it doesn't matter if they ratified it or not, we can implement those terms. Because now there's no union. We could implement it anyway. We can give them $5,000 an hour, if we want. We can give them pay cuts to four hours an hour. I'm just going to say talking about the month of June of the contract, what I'm talking about here, is it going to be higher somewhere. That's right. Right. And that is the contract that people are going to come. That contract that was available for both sides at the table. And that contract was styled so that we would be better able, and the salary scale was styled so we'd be better able to hire people that people would want to come here and work. That was why we did it. So here's what I'm saying. Here's a thought I'm agreeing with you. You don't have to. No, I do agree. I think we've got to get off the stick. Got to make this decision. I propose that we figure out a date this week. To look at the salary schedule as proposed by the union negotiations. So that we can get this done so that Alfred has something to work with. Is it not fair to not hang on? Hang on. Hang on. I don't agree with that. We have said several times in D.C. We have to tie on our calendars and we are going to. That's to do the committee thing that I think just benchmarking, which is different. Do we need something now? This is like we need two years. We can do this whole other piece of it. Still on Thursday to talk about that. I just think we need to come up with some kind of a salary schedule. We can just have a special meeting or continue this meeting and vote to implement the changes. If that schedule and that grid works out that it's short of what that committee sense is, you're still behind the game. We can then just upgrade the present. We figure out the percentage and everything moves. It's simple as well. I just I'm just going to say it out loud. I don't want to lose another man from our road crew. And we are this close. So I'm not happy. If that happens, Sharon, now we've got a brand new crew going into the winter. These are two hundred thousand dollar trucks. These people are driving. I don't want a rookie crew. I don't want to be able to have to train three more guys. I'm sorry. It's a lot of work. Please do something. It's only a little bit of money. I saved the town. The budget saved a thousand a hundred thousand dollars last year. Last budget cut into that. If you got to make your road crew happy, please. Okay. Because it's not working the way it is right now. So so I hear you and I appreciate that. What I'm uncomfortable with is articulating in public what we're going to admit to as what we're going to talk about. We were making a union when we didn't. It's just my opinion, Sharon. We have been doing everything in private because that's a union negotiation. That's a respect thing. But that also creates more of a bad thing. The crew is fancy. We're losing guys. We can't find guys. His job is a difficult job. It's now a miserable job. Um, you know, I don't want to have to go to CEO and drive a truck to keep the town going. I mean, because Alfred takes off and we lose everybody. That could happen in one day. I'm looking at that. That's just the reality. You look at what the thing is out there. I'm looking at it. Okay, can I finish? I'm sorry. I'm looking at us meeting just to look at the pay thing, not anything else. Just the pay piece and seeing what we can do based on our negotiations. If you agree to those pay scales or the pay amounts or whatever you want to call it. So we have a half an hour special meeting. We can vote on it. If you don't want to vote for me, you don't have to. So what are folks' calendars? And I just want to also say that pay period was arrived before the COVID increases came, which are massive. Anyone's going food shopping. They're massive. They're not incremental. They're massive. We are at 5%, 5% inflation. I can't afford to buy a sheet of plywood. It's $120 to buy adventend as I checked. I'm hoping it's come down. I've ground to a halt on my barn project. This is the reality. Carpenters are a hundred bucks in Chittenden County an hour. I'm saying 40% increases to the state counter cost. This is nuts. Can we meet tomorrow night at 7? Here. Can we continue this meeting? Or 6? I can do one today. I can't do anything. I can't. I have a meeting tonight. We're meeting something else. I have clients tomorrow night. It's your first day. It's your first day. It's just, I can't because I'm the next day I'm running the surgery. So I'll make you know that. It's your first day. What about tomorrow during the day? No, I'm going to be, I don't know. Can you do this one? I think I'm going to make it by 7. And if not, I'll pull over and I'll remote it until. So make sure we have a remote one. Do you have a bar night break? I can do it tomorrow and I'll just do that. Can we do it? You can check. I can't. I can't. Mark will be back. Mark will be back, right? Yeah. We're going to get to next Monday. Wait, what's another week? I mean, I think, I mean, the people aren't knocking my door down to look for a job. Okay. But if they do, okay. I can wait until Monday. That works. If I can remote it. You can go get it. If I can, if I can remote it, I'm going to put that one. I've actually gone on Monday. All right. I'm pretty sure we have three people in the, just the two of us. Me and the others, you know. No. Yeah. We're, just for the vote. It's up to you. It's up to you. We'll set it up by Zoom. So if you want to remote it, we'll be out of town. We'll be out of town. Yeah. So I think Mark, he's pretty much knows he can't do anything else on Monday nights. Okay. So Monday night, seven o'clock here. Here. And one item, nothing gets added. Right. And I'm going to suggest we continue this meeting instead of happening in another whole agenda. Okay. So I shouldn't like the guys or not. Wait, was this on the agenda? Was this on the agenda? Well, this was kind of, I don't think it was on the agenda. This was on the agenda. So. Instead of considering your vote on the right. Oh, okay. Yeah. Continue it. Yeah. I don't, I don't know that that would be the best idea out there. Okay. I'm just asking. Yeah, I think this is a management, it's not a negotiation. It's not a negotiation. We tried that. Didn't hear. Well, they tried it. You'll be with us and we'll make it soon. Okay. We need to move on because it's quarter nine and we still have a couple more things we need to do. Yeah. So Gary Schultz and people from Schultz have asked us to consider just continuing their town highway seven and Katie, there's a document. There's a couple of things in the folder. There's the email from Gary and Jill. I had previously supplied our history of this road with some minutes. I don't know which folder they're in at this time. And there's also a draft notice in tonight's folder. We have to hear a notice. So we're not going to be able to do all this tonight. But I wanted to put it on board radar that hopefully we can review the process and come up with a hearing mandate at our next regular meeting, which is August. Not tonight. What is it? It is in nine sixteenths. Ninth. It is in the second to Monday. Oh, so you want to wait till the ninth through this river? Is that what you think? No, I was hoping for that. There's a special meeting. Yeah, a special meeting. Right. On the second one. Right. Yeah. So hopefully on the ninth, we can delve into this in Highway 7 discontinuance. And you've mentioned something about discontinuing GAR road at the same time. Yeah. So I'm discontinuing. No. Okay. So we have this one to discontinue and the one to do a trail. So we focus on that on the ninth. Great sense. Okay. Next up. Yes. Which is in Highway 7. Oh, that's another buyer. Yeah, that's a good idea. They could be doing that, I guess. You've got to start the process there. Also, this is to be able to mention some of the next Let's go. We've got time to follow those two squares. Is there a maximum, let it be with a brand? Yeah. And we'll look at it and do that there if we're all keeping it the same way as mine. That's the case. I don't think that's the case. True. That's my idea. If it weren't the case, then it's not like this stuff. I want to make this one again. Yeah. Back to the last one. No, we won't. Never. That's the point. And I think that's the case because we did it on that sand hill and we didn't strengthen it. I don't think that's true. We never strongly, it's the same value. I would remember, we did not strengthen the boundary. We just want you to classify what uses were allowed. That's all it did. Oh, okay. And we had the ability to go happier the way, like as you said. So Katie, could you make a note at the minutes that we need to double check on what needs to be inspected? Just the amount of the inches of one inch of rope is adopted. One inch of rope? Yeah. Also, I think we specified that the rudder may be wider than normal for a friend. I'm just wondering if that follows the state statute. I don't know. We should check and see the statute. I'm 99.9 centimeters. That's once we're non-sectors. We own that rudder. We're not giving that. If you throw it out, you're not changing it. We're not giving that up. We're just changing yours. This reference to the statute is to the standard width of the trail. That's my argument. Do you have that information? No, I don't. I'm going to take that on. You really should follow the statute. Yeah, absolutely. I think that the whole procedure is in the end of the statute. That's right. I know I read it. Yeah, it's good. Well, and there is a whole procedure for this to continue to go up, too. So that's what we were talking about tonight. The other information that we were talking about. Okay. Okay, far department. Do you want to talk to me, Denise? Yes. I'm so sorry. I don't know who was talking and I couldn't hear any of the comments. And I heard you ask me to make a note of something, but I'm sorry I couldn't hear. It was Reed Charington. He's talking about following the statute that applies to trails. And he is actually going to go and look it up and send it to us. Okay, thank you. To put a finer point on that, Katie, one of the considerations or two roads we're discussing. One is Highway 7, as you know. And the other, that would be the term, the clupial term is throwing it up, discontinuing the road. And relinquishing all town rights, right? And the rights, the rights of the way, the rights that go along that are relinquished to the property owners that own the land under the road are flooding away with it. We're also talking about reclassifying the prospect of, should we reclassify GAR road? And in that reclassification effort, downgraded from what its current status is, that's a four, class four. And downgrading it to a trail which would allow us, would give us the tools to limit certain types of uses of the road by the general public, not the landowners. The landowners maintain the rights of use, but the general public would constrain motor vehicles, for instance, on some. Reed was concerned that in downgrading a class four to a trail, is there the potential for us to wind up losing some of our right-of-way width? And he's going to research that, and I'm going to look into it, too. I don't think that's the case, but if it is, then we might want to reconsider that idea. Because at some point in time, GAR road might want to upgrade back to a four or a three. So. Thank you. You can always email me. Yeah. Okay, fire department, on track. Who needs you to finish this up? And get back to you. Thank you, Reed. Thanks, Reed. Thanks, Reed for showing me. Katie, can you fill up our department stuff? Please. I need another lesson. And this is not worth it to share. Nice. Do you want to stop share on yours and I'll I'll find stuff on mine? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Got it. Okay. Just a second. So raise it. So I can't make it work. Is this right? I don't see anything. Yes. So you all have the information sent over by the east popular select board. They have basically agreed with to what we proposed. They did this. They worded it a little bit differently. And I looked at it again today and it seems to still meet our goal. This the dot was the stuffing red as explained in versus email. Stuffing red is what we proposed. Stuffing blue is the east popular select board. Changes to what we proposed. So it's still basically saying the same thing just in a different way. And it says this contract will be viewed. No. They say and shall not automatically renew more than two successive years. Right. We said. We said shall not automatically renew. It's self or a succession of one year term. The last one is among the rule. But we didn't make a change to that because it's not in red. We're essentially just trying to get to you in there when you're going to get the list about the results because it's very impressive. No. See up here where it says. One check shall be one year. Commencing at midnight blah blah blah. And shall renew itself with successive one year terms. Unless notice shall be given and writing by one party. Knowing that three months we was five hours saying three and they're agreeing. Oh okay yeah this is a further constraint. Okay yeah okay sorry. Okay and then further down Katie. Hang on though shall not effective. September 2nd the contract shall be reviewed by the parties at least every three years. And shall not automatically renew more than two successive years. I don't know how to I don't know how to square those together. Do you renew it every if we're going to review it every three years and not automatically renew more than two successive successive years. Wait a minute no that's not what I was saying this is a one year contracts that renew automatically for a year and they're saying. They're automatically renewing and with no end date and we ask for mixed a lesser amount of time to with a notice of one renewal. And then we ask for every three years and not automatically new. Right. So they're saying if they kind of took our language and did it a little backward they're saying instead of renew effective September 121 they're saying effective September 221. This contract shall be reviewed by the parties at least every three years until not automatically renew more than two successive years. We still have the option to give notice three months prior to renewal date if we want for optimizations. So so in other words they shall not automatically renew more than two successive years remembering that it automatically renews every year. It's not saying it's not saying now we're going to be giving them a two year. We have to take it together. Right. They're calling if they're kind of turning this into a four year process. No they're not no they're not they're they're limiting they're saying the existing language says it renews every year for it's a one year contract and the fire department's offered up. Well yes it offered each month previous record says yeah renews every year automatically if we don't weigh in however you got you're only going to get that that twice if we don't weigh in and the third year you're going to whether or not we weigh in we're going to have that if you missed the deadline we're going to have that conversation at least every three years. I still can't square shall not automatically renew more than two successive years that's one auto renew two auto renew isn't that so does that bring in a three years it's 30 that's 30 you have to have a contract a conversation. Okay I guess that's why I'm interpreting it. Taking together. Okay I see that. We're still we're still in front of the position where we're reducing the side of our budget no you're not. Okay scroll down to number six. If you look at number six keep scroll down okay the language in six is crossed out. So it's basically saying it's saying after agreement on the operating budget is reached in accordance with paragraph five which is this earlier. He's looked at I guess he shall support set agreement and endeavor to raise the amount of emfd's operating budget the manner of presentation of emfd's operating budget or equal capital request will be at the discretion of each individual select board and that's what we wanted so they're not disagreeing with that and they're they just put it in the clause you know and we'll have a problem with supporting. Yeah of course we agreed of course we're going to endeavor. I wonder if you know but I think we have to we still share the endeavor to choose. If our people if I'm gonna say our group but that is out of order. No they're saying when you go to town meeting select board you explain why you're supporting this proposal. Yeah I suppose contract and this budget goes along with it. We shouldn't go there and say yeah we negotiate that but we don't support. We're saying you guys you should support it and if they and if they not if the towns folks if we choose to have it up as a separately warned item which is what we have that we're going to do that we're not going to undermine in our discussions with our community but the community just chooses to. I don't think there's no reason we undermine it. The question is simply yeah we'd be there I'm going to support it but the question is is the powers are going to play a role in the play of the play. Right. Somebody's got to stop them and still speak a lot. Right they can do that. They can but then we've got to work around the buy a contract. No no there's no contract. What's an agreement right it's a sign of agreement. We agree on a budget contingent on the town meeting vote because they decide we don't we don't set budget it's set by the um elector. We don't have the authority to enter in a contract. Let me just let me just give you this. It's always it's always we include as a line on the budget. Right now the fire department's budget is in our budget. It's always been the prerogative of voters to say yeah always been that way. I think it comes down to what are we thinking we're endeavor means and and you know I think well what Rick is saying is meeting our our point of view has been you know basically and she'll try you know she'll try and we want to be sure but nobody's interpreting that to me we must if the voters go to the yeah I think so too I think so we should try that's what I mean. Yeah okay so I was like show me you believe you agree then definitely try. Yes um yeah I guess whatever it's. An earnest attempt okay the conscientious a concerted effort toward an end purposeful or industriousness okay as long as that's just as long as that's the word that's everybody understanding of the word no commitment that we're going to come up with a big sale. We can't we can't do that we can't find all right so the next thing is excuse me I feel like you're part of our I'd like to meet with us over here on this second. Can you do it here? I think that's something about Christmas. You think we just got bigger? Yeah um yeah so we want to have a pretty long discussion about so you have to meet at six with the good salary stuff and then seven six to eight. Six to eight so you're going to have one I think it's going to be a I think we can do this. Yeah I can show you that the concern of the fire department is if on the floor we're going to meet somebody that's the right way that's the next step. That can happen anywhere. Because if it's in the sweat book budget it's under article one or whatever that shows down the way it's going to be. No access yes. No they can pull out and say we sure that number is too high. They can't do it by a line either. They can do it by reducing the number of the amount of time. They can bring it out if you're wrong. Let's get back in a million counties where the same process. So why can't they do it now with the way it exists now? They can't do it. This is about why I'm mentioning it. Because it's a large budget item to cover. Chalks separate we want to have a large budget item to separate. That's kind of our philosophy and we disagree with these numbers. And I don't think, I think it's, and you know Woodbury should have done that, right? They never can roll it down. And you know the great good thing about it is and the number of subordinates that said this, I don't know if I said it to you, but at least in the discussion, it gets to the part where I'm going to explain the value of those three dollars. And you know who showed up for your meeting? Woodbury. And they explain and they get standard elevation. Great. And you know what has to be shown now? He's my failure. Why? Because it's very. And you know what? You don't understand elevation. And I'm not a standard elevation because I hear on my phone about everyone's taxes and their meeting. They're going to have their own. And I will ask the other side, well, they got a standard elevation and it wasn't buried in the budget. And they explained to everybody. And yeah, you didn't show up at Tommy. You had a different conversation about that. But I think you should get some value there. You should be worried. And we do whatever support. What's in the language? This is not the time to attack. I mean, this is the time when we have practice out here trying to stir up people all the time. This is a way of actually thinking there. We have to avoid these concerns. And I think you're going to have five more people support our department and the budget. I don't know about anyone. It's all in the library. Yeah. All right. We really have to get moving because we have a couple of things we have to do. So second. Actually, one other quick point about it that we've talked about every year in the budget is it's the one item that's inside the town budget that we don't actually control. What is it? The least one for our department. The number comes to us. I mean, yes, we go to a meeting. He has an interest. But we don't generate the number. We don't generate it. And we still have to bake it in and take ownership in a way we don't or other numbers that are handed to us. Yeah. And we get by the nature of what it is we need to do that. Because this is an obligation. Money bar and sustain this. All the freaking building, of course, we're going to start to decide. Yeah, well, this is trying to keep the people behind it. Yeah, engage them. I mean, I think the more, I think the more these fire departments around the line like the better. So people really say, oh, yeah. Yeah. They're life savers. They're, yeah. Save your house and run it down. I mean, I think they need to get more. I think what we need to put in the budget I think we need to put refrigerator magnets in the budget. I'm serious. So people know what to do. But anyways, so, we talk about the baking position on the Washington Central Unified Union School. Yes. Thanks, Toby. Thanks, Toby. Thank you, John. I can go now. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you, Alex. All right. So he's all seen the statute that talks about the process or how you go about doing this. And I'm just going to say right out of the gate, I'm not comfortable with the fact that we asked. The school central office, if they were going to advertise and they wrote back and said that the dot had posted something on Facebook. And to me, that does not constitute. Notice. I think you're leaving doesn't mean folks understand. That's not our job. Responsibility to step up and approach the process. Well, it's not. It is not God's job to have said, yeah, you know, if you're interested in contact, well, that's not your job. So that's not an advertisement. It's from the form. So it turns into a, well, it's an internal selection. Yeah. We want to be. That's right. I'm going to go through. So your idea of this is that we go through our official house process. Yeah. I mean, we advertise. I don't know if we want to put it in. You tell me where you want it to be put. You want it in. I say front push forum. You want it in the heart of the set. All of our notes. All of our official. All of our official. For the actual script. Yeah. Okay. And I know we can recommend a slate. We can say these people know all that must have picked. Pick one. Pick one. I don't know how that's so sad. That's not part of this conversation. Right. Well, and then so the notice, I would say that letters of interest should be sent to the DeKalice town office. And then when they get letters, they can send them to us. For the deadline. Right. I think I have to look at the calendar. I think the deadline would be like the Monday before our we have time for the meeting on the night. So we want them letters of interest by like the Wednesday before. So my concern is what was the stuff that school board was going to point somebody outside of us? Well, they could. But they say they're going to respect us. They haven't. They have not said that. I think we should vote. But I think that that would be. We've tried it now. Right. This is our seats. This is our seats. Right. Right. And. I don't think they're going to pass that. But I hope that they would, I hope that they would seriously consider when you put this in our minutes. We don't know about it. They would especially consider if this is not recommended for persons. If we, if there are two. Three or four. Right now for many. Because that is our seat. That is our voice. That is our first presentation on that school board. And I would suggest that we then, we're going to have to do interviews with whoever applies. Maybe it's three more people. Maybe it's only Chris and Maggie. I don't know. We should interview them on that. What we're going to have to interview them on the 9th is you and I have discussed because they're going to make the appointment on August 11th. So there are two interested candidates. How do we know this? They can contact us or they'll see this letter. This is a little letter they sent us from the school board from the central office of whatever they're called. I didn't see this one. But we don't know how they came to find that. You know, did they respond because they saw dots close down from Fort Horn? Because they clearly stated in one of their emails that they were not going to advertise. But I have a real problem with that. So we need to express our thoughts and our thoughts on whether we want a various event. And we're going to advertise and make sure that everyone has an opportunity. Right. And we're going to make sure that everyone has an opportunity. So it's clearly a process on there. And we should invite our other, when we have two representatives, we should invite the other representative to sit and interview them. Scott? Yeah, Scott. Is it just Scott? Is it just Scott? I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't think we do. We haven't heard of him. So it was not in Scott. So we should ask Scott to join us. Yeah, like that. Right. So if we're going to interview, then we've talked about a couple of different ideas. Are we going to interview to say we have to, so that we're assessing qualification to John's point of, here's three qualified candidates. Or are we taking it to the point of, here's one seat, here's one recommended candidate. Yeah. I think we can't decide that right now. It doesn't matter if anybody has it. I'm right now thinking if there's, if we go to Michael. And they all say I support Cal's. If there's someone, frankly, if someone says I'm going, I wouldn't be running to kill the school budget. And that's their focus. I'm not going to want that person on me. No. That's your agenda. I don't want that person. All right. I want a person who cares about children, cares about the viability of the school, is sensitive to tax increases, cares about the teachers. Yeah. I want to know what their perspective is. And if someone comes in there and I don't give them any thought, there could be someone who's well-intentioned, but they haven't given any thought. They, well, I don't know. I don't know anything. I just thought I'd run. I'm probably not going to support that person either. Yeah. But they're well-intentioned people who kind of represent our value set, our value set. And we support, we know the board. But that's how it's supposed to be. Or we might have one person that we do, only one candidate. There might be one that we think clearly stands out. But I don't think we can do that until we interview or up in the mouth. I don't see it. You want to move on? Right. Yeah, let's do some quick appointments. And we, if we don't do any other minutes tonight, we need to do the minutes until July 26th. I'd like to move this right here for appointments. Tonight's the 26th. Today's the 26th. Oh, I mean the 12th. I'll put it everywhere. Sure. Why do we, I didn't read those. Well, we've got to, we've got to do it because it's on the ordinance. Okay, so you have a slate of. There's an agenda contains a slate of appointments slash reappointments. The Hannibal and the patrol officer Wilson Hughes and Elizabeth Perry. Town Constable Wilson Hughes, energy coordinator for the Allo, Gospel Hall of Orden. Andy Felice, inspector of lumber. Greg Elchuk, select board recording secretary. Katie Lane Karnas, webmasters. Katie Lane Karnas and Cliff Emmons. And Jeremy offered to also be a webmaster. And Jericho. So webmasters would be Katie Lane Karnas, comma, Cliff Emmons, comma, and Jeremy Weiss. And I would move, I'd like to move that entire slate. These are one year terms. Thank you. That's my question. They're one year terms. Yeah. All right. Are you ready to vote? All those in favor, please say aye. All right. Aye. Okay. Katie, if you call up the, can we do the minutes as, can we approve minutes as to one piece of it? Is that allowed? I don't know. I don't know. Well, it doesn't mean anything. We don't have to approve minutes. There are three minutes or what happened. What we do that is. Well, I put it on the ordinance that minutes would be approved. I just know. Because you have to. I know you're trying. I know you're trying. I know you're trying. I know you're trying. I know you're trying. I know you're trying. I know you're trying. I know you're trying. Okay, this is just a case. We can always go back and. So I would move that we approve the minutes from. To like 12th, 2021. I'm looking for a second discussion. Right. Right. So we can always go back and amend. Thank you. Thank you. Can we have that on an agenda for next, the ninth, you know, potential revisions to. July 26. And it's necessary about. Potential amendments. Yeah, that's fine. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. But this, because that ordinance thing, you have to fill in all these. That's fine. That's fine. As long as we still have a chance to actually. Yeah, but we don't. But to be the record clear, we don't expect changes to the ordinance section of the. Meaning that that is all right. For legitimate. I agree with that. Okay. Okay. You're ready to go? Yeah. Well, I was able to say hi. Hi. Hi. Do you want to do anything else? Or would you like to return? No, I'd like to. On other business, old business. I had a conversation with Doug Willie. Oh, five weeks ago. And it was. He brought up a war story. You've got someone flying by and almost hitting him. I'm gone. I'm like, oh, that's interesting. I almost got hit twice on my tractor. There's a blind spot below my barn. And people come flying up the lower section of St. St. St. Gales and Gales and it opens up through Gales woods. And then people hit it and I can hear them coming. I'm not on a tractor. And I know the stuff out of the road. But it's blind. It's a corner and it's a rise. And this person just missed my bucket by this. And I don't want to go to school. My dog's gone. Run over. Christopher almost got killed by two different drivers. He happened yesterday on Lightning Ridge. Jeff and I were, well, Jeff and I were out for a walk. And he was Lightning Ridge. Did it just say guy? Two persons? I don't know. That was guy. There was a guy. I saw several times. Now this guy came barreling down and had to slam on the brakes. And so it was weird to miss you guys, to not hit the car that was stopped, you know, having a neighbor leave Sunday afternoon chat on Lightning Ridge with us. I mean, was there a car stopped under the Lightning Ridge road? Yes. Was it Sunday afternoon? Yeah, it was. Yes. And your car could have broken down. Well, and they shouldn't be going that fast. That's a whole different thing. It's like that guy was going way too fast for the road period. So to that end and to that concern, to this end, and I spoke with you, Denise, about this informally many weeks ago, when I was complaining about the state of the world or something, as I do every day, that I had asked that reminder stop sign, speed limit sign to be placed either side of East and West, Lightning Ridge road runs East and West. You'd like to have a sign before you get. Why don't we get some of those while you can have them? No, no, speed limit sign says 35. Is that looking to get it reduced? He just wants a 35 hour sign posted before you get to his farm on the road commission to configure that out with Doug in both directions. Looking for that. I would like, and I said, we need to have a farm equipment. A warning slow sign for him. And I would like, at least coming from the South, a caution, you know, whatever, a blind corner farm equipment. I don't know. I don't know, but there's going to be an accident. It's getting so close now, and you know, it's not going to hurt my big tractor. Alice Chalmers and I'm really named out, but it was a house resident came around and they hit my tractor with a car full of kids. They would have been dead. And I would have still been there. And you know, I have that. So I don't want to have that. My kids are grown. They're not going to get run over. I'm trying to say something more aggressive, you know, like, you know, we asked the school to help us with one of those Russian speed signs by the school. Why not put one of those, you know, the solar. You mean the mouse, the mouse for our story? You're going to put one on each side of the trucker coming down. No, I didn't. We put one on each end of these callas and we got one on each floor. But still they get rotated. So we could put the 35 and then we could also put a post for a flasher. Yeah, how do we do that? Or we could make them the 35, but also the post for a flasher. Can you get signs where you or Doug could push a button and it would like flash. What about my tractor? Or your tractor's going to cross the road. Oh, well, I guess you could ask a lot of them. I'm going to put it up there. Okay, cool. I'm just asking for a special sign. Okay, so can we just put that on an agenda? I don't think it's other business. It's just a sign. Yeah. Yes, the road commission. Do you want to, do you want to get offered to do that? Yeah, it's simple to use. Right, right. I mean, that's an easy thing. So the request is 235 mile on our sides, east and west of Doug's, probably Barnard, I think is what he's thinking, or Fields, I guess, I guess Tucker Road. Is he going to get any of that? Tucker Road intersection and, or he'll hold the side hook. Yeah. And then, farm equipment, slow rolling signs for Doug, road directions. And I need, I'd like that too, too, but one would be great just coming from the south, from the barnard. Right, I'm going to make sure. Okay. And there's fit for, for more than 70 years. Well, that was a great idea. I think we should set out to do that. I think we should, yeah. Because these are the most scariest. People take. One thing we're just always a problem. Yeah. Always a problem. Best things going, those, those radar signs are highly effective. And you don't have to, they're residual effect on those. It's been proven that it's the last of all the time. People. We need one on this side. It works, it works. Does he close me down? I need one on West County road. You need to know, you need to know, you need to know around there. You've got that expensive on there. Right. Yeah. So, so go ahead and get on for a minute. Okay, so. Yeah. Those for Doug's feet. Right. And then. That's really good on light degrees, because that long straight way down. It's a nice track. I think like that location for a fly shape. That's what we'll do both. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, I mean that's not a good idea. Because that's also, that's a school of work. Right. It's not a work to do. Well, it's, it's not something about the other ones. You know what, we've got this money. It's going to roll over from one side way of it. We give it these things right now. Now it's just money. Yeah. Yeah. We can give you a car right now. Yeah, let's put the, let's put the radar on. We should put that on the agenda. We should put the radar thing on. It's like a $35. Is that that close? It's pretty expensive. Yeah, we think we're going to call it. They were people's brand, right? Yeah. They were? Oh, I think so. No, well, not with posts, but the whole app around the world. Brands, okay. Oh, we're going to hold a sign. 50 hundred, right? Do you use it for the posts? We do. We have some money to spend it. Oh, good. Oh, good. Yeah, but that doesn't preclude the $35 solution. It's very small. It's not normal. Well, no, that's what they cost, right? 50, 35, 50. Yeah, I don't know. We put it on a sign. I think the posts stand the size of a hundred bucks. We put a post in, we put the slides with 35, where you suggested to go. And then we get cost-efficient with debt. Right. And then we get the watching speed limit signs, because we need it. Now's a good time to do it. We have money to spend it. How do you suggest we do it? I grew up with all the people here, right? I'm going to suggest that we buy one of these app. You know, it's really good that we have to borrow from the return plan. I know I used to do it, but I don't know how to do it. I've done it before. I was like, see you, I can see you, I can see you. You have to kind of step up, because they might have said that. Right, but they're usually both right now. Right, right, right. I was going to say, I know these they're valuable, but you have to tell them, I mean, I just always do all my speed studies. I'm used to them probably, like, I look like a fast dude, but I do speed. And I get it quickly with the errors, so they can't do it. But you start talking to a machine, you know, with your down and your left, because then you find out there were patterns to use people in abuse, I mean, I don't talk to others, but people in violate, they tend to do it the same. I used to actually post my results, and they'd at least abuse that in the sheriff's, and they can put a guy out there. Are you looking for that pattern? Yeah, I invented it. It wasn't good at this. We could have done it later. That's a good idea. Well, because they do it. And UVMA is going to how consistently, I kind of analyze that. Okay, you ready too? I'm sorry. I'm just going to go over one more. But where are we? The county road, speed limit, we... I've got to catch up with Eaton. They've done a speed check thing. I just need to catch up with him and do the process. So you'll see it's on the agenda. It's anything up the ladder. Thank you very much, everyone. All right. So is there a motion to adjourn? Well, the papers say aye. Aye. Hey, Kay, as soon as you can get me the draft minutes, the better. Okay, thank you. Have a good night, Kay. You're on mute. I can't hear you. Oh, yeah. Sure, I will, Denise. I'll send them to you tonight, the first round of it, before I've fixed spelling. Tomorrow morning is fine. I'm not looking at them tonight. Okay. And I got to pack up this stuff. So how come I don't have any service here?