 You can find the links to these slides again if anybody wants to follow along. WPbuffs.com forward slash who and I also schedule them to tweet out so and blackout slides also good. All right. Tweeted them to go out as well so you can find the slides there. So the first thing I want to look at is just this little landing page WPMRR.com. This video course is like Neo jacking into the matrix and learning kung fu instantly. It's interesting that the lights went down because I was going to do a little hand demonstration. Who knows what this is referencing? Who knows the movie that this is referencing? So and keep your hands up. Keep your hands up. I want to see them high. So I see a lot of people, someone already said matrix, right? So a lot of people here know what that movie is. Keep your hands raised. Keep them raised. Keep your hand raised only if this is like you would consider this one of your favorite movies. Okay. So a few hands went down. I see some people still this is one of your favorite movies, but some people's hands went down and kind of a simple demonstration, but you can put your hands down now. Sorry. A simple demonstration just wanting to kind of go over the fact that, you know, this landing page is trying to connect with people pretty immediately via this kind of matrix reference. It says take the red pill. Everyone whose favorite movie knows what that is, knows exactly what that means, but not everyone's hands went up when we talked about this being someone's favorite movie. So this landing page is not trying to connect with everybody out there on the internet. It's kind of trying to connect with people who are kind of interested in this. Not just this movies, but particularly, but the kind of, I guess, nerddom that comes with, you know, being a fan of the matrix. And I think this is really important because this is kind of what I want to talk about today, is that we want to know the kind of people who are visiting our website because this could either be very good for this website because they're targeting the right kind of person or it might be very bad because they're not targeting the right people at all. And that kind of leads us into the talk I want to give today. I want us to figure out how we can get to know who's visiting our website. There are going to be a lot of talks today about SEO and driving traffic to your website and growing a site or a business via WordPress. But I'm kind of glad this talk, I got to go first because I think this is a really important foundation before you do any of that because it doesn't matter how much traffic you get to your website if you're not engaging people in the right way. And that starts with just getting to know who those people are, who are those people who are visiting your website. You know, those 100,000 people who visited your site, 100,000 people visited your site last month. If you don't know who they are, how are you going to cater to them? Before we kind of get started with that, I want us to keep this question in mind through this talk. Are these the kind of visitors you want? Because you have the ability to change that. I just want to make sure that that's clear throughout the talk. We're going to be talking about ways to see exactly the kind of people who are visiting your website in order to draw conclusions and again cater to them a little bit better, but there's this overarching question of are these even the visitors that you want? Are these the right people who are going to buy your products or services, are going to read your content, who are going to engage with you? I want us to keep that question in mind because that's the first question we should really be asking and we will continue to ask. Now, easy wins. So we're just going to start with the easiest ways to see who's visiting their website. Google Analytics, raise your hand if you have Google Analytics installed on the site. Most people, if you don't, great idea. Free Analytics tool that allows you to get a lot of the data that we're going to talk about now. So left side of your screen, under Audience Demographics Overview, you can see a pretty good idea of the kind of people who are coming to your website. Again, pretty baseline information. A caveat that this is something you have to activate in Google Analytics, it doesn't come if you just activate in Google Analytics. You actually have to go into this area and click, I want this data to flow into my account. This is for wpbuffs.com. This is for our website. The point I want to make clear here is just that you can see the majority of people coming to our website, 25 to 34 years old and about 75%, almost 75% male. So when you have this kind of information, it does kind of change the aspect of what you want to do on your site. I'm not saying that you don't want to cater to, I'm not trying to create my website so it only caters to males who are only in this age range, but it also gives me some information so that I can try to make those kind of visitors a little happier and target them a little more. So on our website, this is a blog post we just published yesterday. You know, the 25 to 35 age range we would consider like millennial. We all like our gifts and our emojis and all that, but I think that, and so with each of our posts right under the kind of second, first or second paragraph, we just add a little gift here. And my goal here is not to make people fall in love with our brand or, you know, that kind of comes later. The goal really is to get people to continue reading. And so this kind of small connection, you know, a little joke here and there, I think gets people a little more comfortable with that and gets them to keep reading. So that, you know, demographic information we just saw leads to, you know, things we can do onsite to do a little better of a job targeting that audience. Back to Google Analytics, under the Audience Interests Overview section, you can actually see some additional information about the kind of people who are visiting your website in terms of the kind of websites they like to browse, the kind of, some additional kind of clarifying information about what that kind of person is interested in. And again, this is on WP Buffs on our website. The two I wanted to point out were the technology slash technophiles and lifestyle and hobbyist slash shutterbugs. And if we come down here to see kind of what we do, again, on our blog, because we have that information, people who are shutterbugs who come to the site who are interested in photography, we have a lot of great photography on the site. It's kind of the featured image for all of these, all of our posts. And because we have technophiles on the site, we also write the kind of content that talks about the kind of SAS tools our business uses. And that gets a lot of traffic because a lot of people are interested in that. And a lot of people, you know, they find that from other blog posts on the site and they see that and are interested. So the way that we want to kind of cater to the kind of people who are visiting the website is to create content for them. We're not building content. We assume people are going to like. We actually are creating content that we have data that says people are going to be interested in this. So we're not kind of writing content hoping people are going to enjoy it. We kind of have an idea that we know that they will. If I don't put water break slides in, I just zoom right through. So feel free to water break slide with me if you'd like. It's a great movie also. All right, back into Google Analytics. Again, talking about these easy wins. So you can see what languages people are speaking. And this data is being taken from the language set in people's browsers. So for our website, most people come speaking English. Not a surprise, our blogs in English. It's not in any other languages. And the point I want to point out, or the piece I want to point out over here on this right side is just the, we have a goal set up to see what percentage of people are subscribing to our email. And so you can see, you know, 1.42%, 1.35%. So yeah, you know, about 1, a little under 1.5% of people convert to email to our email list who are English speakers. But the third language, DE, which I actually had to look up last night when I was finishing the slides, which is German, that's German speakers are our third biggest visitors. And they subscribe at far lower at a percentage. So this could be an opportunity for us to, maybe we want to add some translate options to our website to cater to that crowd. I don't have an example slide of this because we don't do that. But it still is good to have this data and it may be an interesting opportunity for us. Google Analytics also, you can see where people are coming from, how people are getting to your site. Which is a big indicator of what their intent is. And so our biggest driver for traffic is organic search, obviously. That means people searching Google for WordPress content come to our website and find those blog posts and internal pages as well. But like I mentioned before, we have kind of our conversion rate here. You know, less than 1% of organic searchers or people at least who come directly from Google subscribe to our email list, which is not great, right? Under 1% not ideal. And you can see, for instance, direct traffic is right below. It gets far less visitors. But they're much better visitors for subscribing to our email. As literally all of our traffic sources, right? Paid search almost 4%. Email almost 6%. Social 3%. And so these other traffic sources, although we get most of our email subscribers to organic search, it may be interesting for us to double down on something like how do we get more direct traffic or referral traffic. That's the kind of way to get to know which of your visitors are going to be most effective for you. And subscribing to an email list is just one metric. Your success metric may depend on what your business is. It may be a purchase. For us, the first step is getting an email subscriber. And so we have a little scroll box. If you went on to our... Yes, go ahead. Quick question. Sure. I hadn't decided. I don't know if I completely understand the question. Is it to set up that event for that event? To see that data, you mean? Yes. You have to set that up specifically. It's just an event or goal in Google Analytics. So you can set that up. Was that the question? Do you have another question? Yeah, go ahead. Yeah, so that's totally right. As you guys could see, organic search traffic, a lot of those subscribers or a lot of those visitors didn't convert into email immediately. I'm a firm believer that being found in Google adds a lot to your brand. And that data is people coming to us from Google for the first time. And we get a significant amount of repeat visitors because once people come to us once, I think it actually boosts the conversion rate of a lot of the other conversions there. So like a lot of that direct traffic. How does a lot of that get to us? I can't say for sure, but I'm sure some of those people came to us and found us on organic search first. As does the referral traffic, as does a lot of that other traffic. But you're absolutely right. That's exactly why we want to look at this data. We can see who are our most effective people coming to our site in terms of what makes our site successful. Yeah, very good question. And yeah, feel free to raise your hand if anybody else has questions. We talked about organic traffic. So my thought is I want my organic traffic coming directly from Google to be more effective at joining my email list. So we have a little scroll box that comes up on the left side. This is specifically for people who come from Google. It doesn't show up for anybody else, only people who have come from Google. And it says never Google for WordPress help again because that's literally what they did, right? They searched for, they didn't know how to do something, they searched Google. And this, you know, has improved conversion rate just in terms of people who have come directly from Google. And I would not have known that without having the data of where my website visitors are coming from. AB testing. I want to go over this quickly. AB testing is not, you don't get like very specific data about your visitors, but you do get a good idea of kind of how they behave. A caveat again before I talk about AB testing is if you don't have a significant amount of traffic, AB testing is probably not what you want to focus on right now. I know that's kind of a wishy-washy like what is the significant amount of traffic. If it were me, unless I had 5,000 visits a month or so, I probably wouldn't dive into AB testing that much. I would probably focus on how to get more traffic and more targeted traffic. And then once you have a little bit more traffic, you can have a statistically significant amount of traffic to be able to, that your AB tests make sense. So, but it's still very important and I do want to go over it quickly. So, AB test, we ran. This is just a exit intent pop-up. So, if someone was going to exit the site, this would come up and it would just ask this question. And this drives people to our free eBooks page. And you can see the conversion rate at the top, 5.36% of people click this. Pretty straightforward. We did an AB test. You can see the difference between the buttons. There's no difference. The only difference is it's a smaller button. We just made the button smaller. I don't even remember why I did this exactly. I was just like, I want to try this, why not? Conversion rate, it's almost twice as much. It's like 1.6% higher, you know? We have a 60% increase in traffic that's being sent here. And it's all because it's a smaller button. And so, AB testing is really important because you have no idea what's going to convert well. I would think a smaller button is like less real estate, less clicks, but it's actually not true. A smaller button makes people maybe feel less intimidated by the button. I don't know, that's my assumption. But you can see a higher conversion rate. And then, we tried another AB test. And we just kind of switched the whole question around. Your WordPress website is 100% secure and loads in less than one second, right? Whoa, look at the conversion rate. It's like way higher. That's crazy. Yeah, it's a win, right? I mean, that's cool. And so, it's important to try different things. And honestly, to a lot of these tools, the free version doesn't have AB testing. But if you're serious about AB testing, pay the $25 a month or whatever to be able to do this because it pays for itself literally, immediately. For this tool, which gives you an email opt-in form. This one is Sumo. This is what we use. Opt-in monster is another option. There are a lot of options out there. Yeah. Very good question. So, conversion rate here is the click of the button. So, we're sending people to a free e-books page. So, like this conversion rate, 8% of people click this button. This 25% of people click this button. Good question. Thanks, Brett. Second one, Brett. Thanks for laughing. Sometimes, they don't get laughs. It's a little awkward. They're like, haha. Great. So, very good crap. So, I don't always talk about tools because we just kind of heard in the keynote, I'd much rather talk about strategies than tools. There are a lot of tools out there that can do a lot of stuff. That being said, from personal experience, this is the best tool I've found for slightly more difficult wins. So, we kind of talked about Google Analytics. It's a really easy way to just get data, make changes based on that data. This takes a little more time and a little more effort, but can get you a little bit more, even more in-depth information about individual people visiting your site. Hotjar.com, you can go check it out. You Google Hotjar, you'll find it. So, one thing I really like about Hotjar, they have a lot of tools within Hotjar, but one is just a heat map you can use. So, you can set a heat map to run for a week or a month or six months, whatever the time period you want. And you can see kind of where the hottest pieces of your website are in terms of clicks. You can also see mouse activity, but I always want to look at the clicks. I want to see where people are clicking. So, it's interesting to see kind of what menu items are going to be your most popular ones. So, one thing we had here, under what we do services, security, performance, and updates here. And I found that the performance was getting twice as many clicks, but it was below security. So, I just moved it up, and I checked analytics later, and that page had 20% more traffic or so. So, that's a really easy win just to see from a heat map. Another thing that I really like about heat maps is it's kind of counter-intuitive, but it's not always what people are clicking on. That's important, but it's what people are not clicking on. So, if I see buttons on my website that no one's clicking, I'll just either change the button text because maybe the button text isn't right, or I'll just remove that button entirely if it's not adding value to people. And this is proof that that's not adding value to people, right? No one's clicking it, and you can see that. And I also find that it's funny what people click. A lot of people click things that they think are clickable, and they're not on your website, and sometimes it's nice to just click a bull, maybe you want to make that clickable. Yeah, do you have a question? I have absolutely not done that, and I don't have anything bad to say about mouse click. It could be an awesome tool, too. This is totally what I've used, and it's worked for me. Mouse flow is another option. Check out both tools, you know? And maybe you can tell us after I kind of go through some more hot jar or maybe some more stuff mouse flow does or doesn't have. Another piece about hot jar that I really like is this funnel tracker here. So I can see kind of how many people are converting on our website into being a new customer, which is super interesting, because you can see where huge drop-offs are, and you can see where the drop-offs are, and then you can make some guesses based on this data what's going on there, and then you can use the heat mapping on your conversion pages to see where people are clicking and then get more information about the kind of people who are the people on your website and exactly what they're doing there. And you can also use what's next, which is I don't have a video recording here, but hot jar does screen recordings with non-personally identifiable information period. And so I always like to make this point because in the modern age of making sure people's data is private and their own, hot jar is able to do screen recordings, but it doesn't connect it with any individual or any person or any IP address or anything like that. But this is a super awesome way to see exactly what people are doing on your website, because the heat map's nice, you can see where people are clicking, and it's almost like looking over someone's shoulder and seeing exactly how they're going through your website, what they like, what they don't like, what they click on, what they don't click on, and you're seeing kind of individual experiences, which I think is super important. It's important to remember that every single visitor to your website is just a person behind a computer navigating, and this really brings that to light. So I could get lost in this all day, I'll be half an hour later, because I'm just watching videos, because it's super, super enlightening. I think this is the last hot jar slide. Another thing I really like about hot jar slides is the ability to give polls to your visitors. So this is a super direct way to ask your visitors to interact with you and to let them self-select or answer questions for you so you can get to know them. This is one of the best ways to get to know the people who are visiting your website. And so what we did is we added a little poll, it's just a little kind of scroll box that comes up and asks a question, and you can make a multiple choice or like a long answer question, but we just asked people, we had it come up on our email subscription page, so someone subscribes to our email, they get forwarded to a new page and says, thanks for subscribing, you're awesome, you rock. And then we had a little box that came up that asked this question. And the answers are my own website, client website, or both. And so you can see over half of the people are working on either a client site or a client site on their own site. So a lot of people are coming to our site, we're developers, we're freelancers, we're people working with clients. And so this kind of changed the trajectory of our business pretty radically. We started working with agencies, we started working with freelancers, and now 65 or 70% of the websites we manage are through agencies or through freelancers or through WordPress hosts. And so one small question we asked people made a huge difference in our business, which I think is pretty amazing. So we kind of talked about a few ways to get to know the people who are coming to your website specifically, which is super important, obviously, but I also wanted, I want to get across the idea that there are also, there's this whole audience for you out there on the web. And it's not just the people who are coming to your website, but it's just your entire kind of potential audience out there. And so a tool I really like to use is BuzzSumo. If you go to the site, they'll try to upsell you really hard on BuzzSumo Pro, which is kind of annoying, but you do, you can search for terms in your industry and kind of see what are the most popular and most shared content on the web over the past year or so. And I just think it's really interesting to see what kind of content is resonating in my industry. I had to blur this one piece out 11 amazing ways to, but I can't complete it because that was an inappropriate, somewhat inappropriate log post. But the others are super interesting. I know I especially like this last one, the definitive PHP, you know, HHVM benchmark, which I won't get into the technical aspects of that, but it's kind of interesting that it was one of the most popular pieces of content out there. If a lot of developers are sharing that and engaging with that kind of content online, maybe I want to write more content about PHP. Maybe that would help me to draw more people who are going to be, you know, a good audience members for me. BuzzSumo. Buzz like a bee, sumo like the wrestler. And it's kind of confusing because this is BuzzSumo and the tool I talked about before was sumo. They're different, but both have sumo in them. I guess I like the sumo wrestling. Kind of last piece of information here. I think it's actually kind of sad that I only have one slide here because we talked so much about kind of these easy wins and easy ways to do things. I kind of have here this unscalable, time-consuming, frustrating, and possibly the most important ways to get to know folks. Because a lot of these ways aren't scalable. No one has unlimited bandwidth. You only have 24 hours a day and, you know, it's time-consuming. It takes a lot of time. Sometimes it's frustrating because it's just, you're dealing with people and people a lot of times can be frustrating. But these kind of one-on-one experiences really allow you to get to know the people who are engaging with you the most. And so these are just a few of what I've used that have been really successful in helping us to grow business and not just grow the business but build a service that people need in a way that they need it. And that's, I think, what we're trying to do, whether you're building a product or selling a product or a service or whatever you're doing through the website. This is how we really start engaging people. Facebook groups are really great for WordPress. There are a bunch of really good ones out there. When I say Facebook group, I guess that's specific to Facebook. But online forums, I guess, is what I was trying to get across. At the end of the day, you kind of just want to, like, hang out where your audience hangs out. And that's what I do. And I comment and I post and I try to add value there. And just being part of that community in the long term really helps you to learn about the other people and what kind of language they're using and what their pain points are. This is one of the best ways to do that. Sending personal emails. Not super scalable because I just can't hang out sending emails all day. But they're, especially when you're starting out and you don't know your audience that well, sending a personal email to someone and starting a dialogue may be the best way to get to know them, right? Maybe they want to hop on a quick call with you. Maybe they want to do, like, a video call. Maybe you just send a single question to them, you know, what's your biggest pain point? And I always thought, like, no one's going to answer these emails. But I get a lot of answers. Even in the automated emails I sent that people join our email list and then ask them a question. We get a lot of replies to those because people do want to share some of that information. Meeting in person. You're already doing that. So congratulations. Well done. WordCamps are a great place for WordPress specifically. To meet other people in the industry. But, again, it's going to depend on your industry or what area you're in. You want to meet people in person. Because there is something about meeting in person that's different about than meeting online. You get to read people's body language. You get to really, like, when someone has a pain point, you really feel that pain point. It does make a difference, I think. Staying current. This is just kind of whatever industry you're in. Staying up to date on these things is important. And it kind of trickles down from the other part, being part of the Facebook groups and going to the, you know, a conference or a meet up. But staying current really helps you to continue to get to know your industry and know what people are talking about. The last point here I have is be authentic and curious. I think, you know, this talk is titled How to Get to Know Your Website Visitors. But it's a two-way street. You want your website visitors to get to know you, too. And if you're not being authentic, then what's the point? The point is try to build your tribe. Try to build your group of people who, like, think you're awesome regardless of how weird you are. And I think that's super important. Just that authenticity. Because there are people out there who do what you do. So you want to make jokes in your blog post. That's your style. Like, cool. Go for it. If you're more serious, that's cool, too. There's no right way to do it. The right way is your way to do things. No. Yes. Like, how do you... That's a good question. I don't know if I do. I think some of this data is just, it's in having the conversations with people. I guess, like, maybe if I'm having an in-person conversation, someone will write down an idea afterwards. But a lot of it is just about affecting your thinking about how people in your industry or in your area are thinking. And I think over the long term, the deeper you can dive into that, the more you can interact and engage with that, the easier it'll be for you to steer in the right direction in terms of whatever the kind of content you want to write, the kind of language you want to use on the website. I think it shapes it kind of slowly. So that's a good question. Matt, for my next time I give this talk, I will put more thought into that and try and add something there. That's a good thought. Yeah? No, no. So it does heat maps and it can tell what device someone is using. So the heat map, what it does with the heat map is it splits it into three different heat maps. It has desktop, tablet width, and mobile width. So when you're on the heat map, you can choose just a little toggle at the top because I want to look at all the mobile visitors and then it shrinks your screen and just shows where people are clicking on a mobile device. Same with tablet, same with desktop. So hot jar is fully GDPR compliant and all that. Whenever someone... I was funny because I was thinking the same thing. People are typing in their credit card information. How is this tool legal? Anything anybody types in is completely obfuscated. So you can't see what anybody is typing in. There's fear. If someone is typing in their credit card information, obviously you don't want anybody with hot jar access to have access to that. There's the thought that if someone types in their email address and then they decide not to opt in, someone could just take that and throw it in their email list. Oh, you subscribed. That'd be a jerk move. It's all texts that someone types and it's numbers. You can't see any numbers. So if I were to look at a recording and I have 50 somewhere in the text on my screen, it'll just have stars there instead. It doesn't. I think it depends on the kind of private message you're talking about. If someone is typing in a contact form that's embedded on your site, it's going to be obfuscated. If it's a live chat, I don't know actually if live chat is obfuscated, but live chat is a third party tool. I don't know how they play. It's a good question. I always have concerns about this stuff, so I totally am with you on all this. Yeah, check it out. Do some more research. So you go to someone's site. Did you put in a phone number or anything? Or are they, you just somehow got a call? Yeah. I don't think I've ever had someone call me without giving them my information. That sounds sketchy. I would not work with a company like that. Maybe some other people have. I'm a big believer and everyone has the ability to do whatever they want to on their site. I'm a big believer in having people opt in two things as opposed to kind of forcing their hand on things. If someone wants to join our email list, that's fine. If they don't, that's also fine. That's a good thing. If you want a call and if you want a call, you can ask for a call. Yeah, that is creepy. I agree. I'm sorry about that. You had a question here. So I don't know of any software that does something like that. If I'm just speaking from personal experience and I know you're talking about this is what your clients want, if I'm in that position, I feel like there's a line there of... So a lot of this data I've shown uses general information to kind of give you, again, general data that's not personally identifiable for people to get an idea of what the individuals look like on your site, which I think is fine. I have no issue with that. And I think it's ethical. I think that getting information about people in that way, especially in that bulk way, for me it's just not something I would do. Again, I want people to opt in. I think it's better for me in the long term to continue testing to figure out how to get people to opt in than to just take their data without asking information for it. And so that's what I want to do. I don't know any tools like that. I'm sorry. Yes, go ahead. And then here next. I think that... So I talked about this a little bit in my last slide, which is how to make sure you do this. I keep it pretty simple, and we just kind of have repeat tasks in our project management that says it's that time of the month to look at analytics to dig into it and to try and take next actions. In terms of actually doing those next actions, sometimes it's me, sometimes it's someone on our team, but we'll kind of put together kind of monthly action steps in terms of looking at this data and saying, what do we want to change? What's our content look like for next month that's going to match some of this? And also asking the question, is this what we want? Is this the traffic we want to get? I don't know. Or is this the kind of audience we want to be building? Do we need to pivot? So maybe we can touch base after this and kind of talk about some more stuff that I haven't just thought of off the top of my head when we can go into more depth. Yeah, go ahead. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. I think that there's... I think that there's a lot of... I think that there is... People are trying to find more and more ways to figure out exactly who you are online so that they can sell things to you better and market things to you better. I don't think anybody in this room has a doubt about that. I wanted to give a talk that talked about ways that don't get people's data without their permission, but still giving you data to be able to target some of those people better. So this one was right. There is a gray area that I think that a lot of people in positions like mine who are doing marketing have to figure out. Some businesses are not going to do that and some are... I don't know if I have a better question or answer than that, but that was what I was trying to focus on in this talk. Did I answer your question? I kind of missed. Okay, agreed. Yes? Yeah. GDPR... So we've fully complied with GDPR. We have customers in Europe, but regardless of that, these are important things that companies need to do. The one issue I find with GDPR is that it's pretty unenforceable. The big companies like the go-daddies of the world are going to be held to a very high standard and they're going to use the dollars if they don't follow it, but there are a lot of smaller companies out there. It's going to take tens or hundreds of millions of dollars to enforce it across all these sites. They don't have that resources, so I don't know how much it's going to help, but I do agree with the concept behind GDPR. Yeah, I didn't include buyer personas in here. Buyer personas are cool. I do like using them. So buyer personas, from some of this data, you create a fictional person that's like, this is this kind of buyer trying to, you know, convert into a... Say that. I find some issues with buyer personas because I think there are... There are stereotypes happen not consciously a lot of the time, just subconsciously, just like... So I don't always use buyer personas and I don't rely on them that heavily because I think there are some biases that come into some of that stuff. Yeah, go ahead. We'll come back to you, sorry. What tool is meant to bring to connect the dots between this and from Google search? Did you say the Sumo or you shouldn't not connect? Google Analytics tells me referral traffic or excuse me, it tells me where traffic came from. I'm talking about specifically changing the topic. Yeah, so that was through Sumo. Have you been able to connect the dots to what term they're in? I'm not sure if I've ever seen an analytics read. So, yes and no. You can see how people... So I can see... I can rank the content on my website and see what kind of content is getting the most traffic through organic search as I can tell the kind of content people are searching for. I also track where we're ranking search engines so I can see what kind of terms we're ranking for. Google does kind of take away some of that data. Not that I know of. I just know the Google part. I like that idea. I tried to kind of blanket it and say never Google for help again because that's like everyone who Google is searching for some sort of WordPress number to help with WordPress. Sorry, he had a question. I don't want to dwell on conversations as long as I could talk... Going back to the whole identifying users on your website, whether or not it's more of a rare area, I think I'm very basic-looking. People are creeped out by that. They don't give you their information. Whether or not you can't respond to them, I just don't think that they like it. But I think there are other ways you can touch base with those individuals without knowing who they are. So basic things like remarking ads and things like that. I try to mention this before and I want to try to make the point again because I don't know if I did it super well. I think it's much more efficient from my business in the long term to find positive ways to interact with people and to maybe not have some of those quick wins and some of those tools to give you like here's all the data. Maybe it'll be good for a short-term reverse, like maybe it's good for this month. But I'm focused on my billion audience in the next year and the next five years. And I want to be a brand that people can imagine how I do it personally. I think that's the way to go. But I agree with what you said. Yes? If you are looking for a type of software, you've got a G2 crowd and they'll tell you you'll have three ones. G2 crowd? Campaign is the most affordable one and it's like 200 billion bucks. Yep. Part of it's another long-range product. Yeah, these are all kind of CRM, sort of things. Yeah. We use ConvertKit. Yeah. And to me that's I think the reason I would like something like a HubSpot is you can see what eBooks people downloaded. They downloaded these three of your 10 eBooks. You can say like you like this content, like here's some more content that's similar to this. And it's not and it's not taking any personally valuable information. Click data is a little different I think. I was just wondering, what's your bounce rate and do you separate out regular pages from blog post pages? I don't know. And when you're looking like I've been blogging for nine years. So my bounce rate I think is higher. I know it's higher. I haven't ever separated my blog pages out from my regular web design agency pages to see the difference. I just didn't know if you knew. Because it's higher if people are searching on your stuff and they come and they find what they need and then they go to apply it so they're leaving. Correct. So bounce rate's a funny thing because you want people doing more on your website. But you also kind of want the higher bounce rate because you want people to get the value from the blog post you wrote. High bounce rate on a blog post I think are bounce rate on the most blog posts is probably like 80% or like 70%. It's pretty high because that's the point of the blog post. We're trying to provide answers. And again, it's kind of that opt-in thing. I don't want to put crazy stuff in front of people. You have to become an email subscriber. I'm trying to go into overkill. So people have the opportunity to opt-in if they want to and I think that makes a huge difference in terms of the engagement working mail list because they weren't kind of forced to. They want to be there. Like this talk. You guys wanted to be here. This is cool. Of course you guys didn't hear me. I don't know. Yeah, good. I saw some friends that Google Tag Manager could be able to attract more specific events and what that individual person would like to do. Google Tag. The question is, I can move into Google Language to Google Tag Manager. I don't know if Google Tag Manager is super well. We just brought in some inversion people to help us out. They just opened up the Tag Manager. It's very good. I don't want to comment because I just don't really know. Does it need more individual information? Yes, I've not died in Tag Manager. People are starting to move in that direction. It is very powerful. Google Tag Manager is something you may want to look into. Google Analytics first, but then you may want to check out Google Tag Manager because there is some initial data. I will say that Google Tag Manager and Analytics work together. You're not off the analytics when you say you're just supplementing the information you already get. They do read all your data on Google Tag Manager. The other thing is, Google does offer a lot of support help. If you don't know how to use Google Tag Manager, they'll often have offer help to do it for you. I will say sometimes they'll keep you on the phone for an hour or two to do it, but we'll do it. In the back. One opportunity with Google Tag Manager is to advance across the main track so you can see how people are navigating in multiple domains as opposed to one. I like that. If you have multiple sites, it's like one to two, one equals three kind of thing. You can really see how people are interacting in different sites. I agree. We just had more seconds like that. Maybe I'll start using that. I'm going to go to my last two slides. Super quick. We kind of have questions and answers already. Kind of talk a little bit about how I do it. I feel like a lot of people are working on a ton of stuff on the website. I think to make it super easy. Oh! Good. Alright, I want to purchase input like five times and see if it comes back. Can I do anything? No. No? What's going on? There. I just turned it back on. You're trying to turn it off. You're back on again. So I'm a pretty formal laborer in sleep methodology. So I turned these things on. I set routine tasks for myself to check. And depending on where your traffic numbers are, you may want to check daily if you have a lot of traffic. You may want to check weekly. You may want to check monthly. You measure some of those results. And make adjustments. And then you let it run for another cycle. And we kind of mentioned kind of like next steps I take. I hope this is about experimentation. I try to make that super clear. I have some tools and stuff for you. But at the end of the day, you're going to be successful. If you're experimenting with this. And I think this is the best way to do it. It takes a lot of times through this cycle. But each time you get a little bit better. Or a little bit worse. But even when you get worse, you figure out what you need to do to get better. And so this is kind of the strategy I follow. It's worked for us pretty well. Final thoughts. There's no finish line. I've kind of talked about that. I won't do it on it. We'll always have to think about We'll always have complainers. What you said was totally not complaining. And it was absolutely spot on. But we get some people who do complain about life. Or a little pop-offs that come up. Oh, why does this pop-up come about? Everyone saw it in the live chat. Someone comes in and is like, You guys saw it? It's going to happen. If most of your visitors are saying that, maybe you have to finish it. Complainers. Is the chat going to be the traffic I want? Are the people who are coming to the website, the people who want to come to your website? That's an important question to ask. Because you can see all this data and cater your website to them. But at the end of the day, is that really going to help? Lots of questions. How am I going to budget for these tools? How am I going to dedicate time to this? I talked a little bit about that lean methodology already. But I I kiss. I keep it simple, stupid. Because for me, if it's complicated, it's not happening. If it's simple, and it's executable, I'll do it. So I just, again, keep it simple. I just set repeating tasks for myself. I look at all this stuff once a month. I have it set up on my calendar to turn my phone on airplane mode. I have a cup of tea. I I don't have a live chat on my website, so I'm not telling people. And that's what works for me. I just have to dedicate that time to it. I think a lot of people will say that, but it's just the that's it. Okay, we're done. I'm Joe with WPBus, WPMRR. Check us out on any hackers. And the slides are available for y'all whenever you want it. So thank you very much. If you have any other questions, come up and talk to me and say hi. I'm going to hang out right here at least for like another speaker. I'll be hanging around.