 by law revisions has everyone signed in to the sign in sheet please. You can sign in Danny that be great thank you. So the planning Commission has been working over pretty much the past year. On updating the the bylaw which includes zoning regulations and subdivision regulations. Primarily, this was all initiated by the push to try and create more density for housing in the village districts as well as the core business district. Primarily, there were some other things that we did just to bring our bylaws in into accordance with state regulations. So there were some other tweaks that we've done. We did some definition tweaks. Pretty much just a lot of housekeeping, but the primary thing was the bigger things were in the village district and the core business. We dropped the reduce the minimum lot size requirement in half. So to create more dense possible housing. There are some other things and it's good to see a good group of people here. So that's briefly what overview very brief of what we've done. The list that you saw posted was everything every T that was crossed I that was dotted that we corrected throughout. So we had to list all those look like a major overwrite. But in reality, it wasn't that serious. But what we are here for is a public hearing. And this is your part of the meeting where you can bring any concerns, ask any questions and we will we'll answer those at that time. Do you want to to reverse in the money when money came from there? Yeah, sure. So there was a grant from two rivers to well, they administered the grant. There was a statewide grant through a number of towns that that chose to be part of it. So two rivers were was our. Sounding board and they reviewed things to make sure that that we were in conformance with with statute. And they participated in most of our meetings to answer questions and to give guidance on technical issues throughout that cover. So again, if something sparked your interest, this just speak up. No question is is not going to be, you know, we're going to answer everything you have or maybe there's concerns you have on what what you saw. If you've looked it over, we'll be happy to to deal with those. This is the time there'll be a this is our only scheduled public hearing. If there's something major that is brought up that we need to deal with, we'll schedule another one. Assuming not, then it will be what we have will be sent to the select board and from what we're looking at the time wise right now, it'll be some time in June that they'll have their public hearing. And again, you can come to that with any concerns. So it's kind of the process I forget. So it's just a really housekeeping. And it's a chapter four point eleven point two paragraph. What really is one point eleven point two day one point eleven purposes. Yep. Yeah. So there's a couple of them. OK, I'll use your wording. Well, thanks. No, there's one word. OK, you have. OK, perfect. Thanks. Regional forest blocks identified as critical for migrating climate change. So you can change that to mitigating. All right, mitigating. OK. And then just first terms of just ease of reading there. There's a couple of prepositions that are a little bit off. Just put that down through that paragraph. OK, there's a list of things. Perfect. And that says are important for wildlife and wildlife corridors, comma, and then it should be for replaceable recreation and scenic areas, comma. OK. And for maintaining rather than. OK, so strike strike to maintain. Right. OK. Yeah, because then it was more maintaining. And so. OK, that's all just. Oh, perfect. This is nice to thank you for writing it up. That's awesome. Thank you. OK, great. Sorry about that. No, thank you. But we had to fall. See, it's a pretty cumbersome paragraph. Well. All right. See page. All right. Perfect. All right. Thanks very much. Anything else. That piqued your interest. I'll just say I know there was some speculation about this addressing. Yard junk, whatever, however you want to put that, this has nothing to do with with that. The only thing in here. That comes close to that is salvage yards. Those are those are. Those are controlled by the state. The only part that we come in is we have to just basically issue. A like, like we have to keep record of the site. I get that I get the. Firm and I'll be here in a sec. The state people that you can talk to on that. Yeah, yeah, again, we it's three point two five point two five. Yeah. Yeah. And one of the things it talks about is operating. They basically have stuff to do about operating. And there's a big difference about operating. And they would, you know, you guys, I guess, would do a certificate of approval type thing. But they basically when you 25 focus their time on that. Oh, sorry. Yeah. Yeah. They basically the state is the one to manage that. We just, you know, yeah, the D.R.B. has to certify the site. Yeah. And I don't think that we're going to really have any operating, solving, I wouldn't think in the future. Yeah, we have to. There is some wording that's kind of off on that part of it. In three point two five salvage arcs. Not in that in the wording of. In the back where it talks about the definition definition. OK. Yeah. What's in the definition and talking about having stuff and having an operational salvage yard. Um, it's it's OK to have have resources and stuff as long as you're not in the operation of that. So by saying you have those, therefore, you are a salvage yard is not a legal wording. So have, you know, and it is tricky with that calling something junk because, you know, someone's junk is someone is possibly a pretty good resource. That's easily proven that, you know, especially during the last few years of what we have gone through with getting supplies and things like that, you know, certain things really do become valuable. So in the definition of it, it would be nice to try to figure out a way to, you know, operating the salvage yard compared to somebody that collects antiques or, you know, tractors. That was taken right from Stafford, wasn't it? I don't know. I'd have to go back and look because we didn't change it. It's been there for you to change the definition. But we'll we'll double check that. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you for mentioning it. Yeah, we'll we'll definitely look at it, you're right. Because I see what you're I get what you're saying. If it said operation, like more where it defines salvage yard, we, you know, at the beginning so we could we'll make sure that it matches the statue. And what the what the sound the gentleman from the salvage yard. Oh, I visited with him and he's was talking about the concern with a lot of the rusted out stuff that's coming along in the collection of newer vehicles that some of them that aren't very aren't recyclable. We have a lot of, you know, battery problem that is going to be a real big problem with some of the rusted out freezes and stuff. And all vehicles have that rust problem in Vermont. And so that's what their concern was, was that what are we going to do with this when it starts to be really starts to show up? Right. And there is there is recycling stuff coming down the line, but the general people that are starting to be involved with that are pushing that over the bank. And these items, we don't, you know, we just want to be careful of those kind of, you know, that kind of stuff. So basically, you want to make sure that what we use for the definition of salvage yard is more in line with the statute to make sure that they're both. Yeah, they're driving with that. Yeah, that's a good point. But and it is something that we've talked about before. Well, that's how that works. Yeah, sure. All right. Definitely. Thank you. And you're right. I would encourage you to come to the select board public hearing to make sure that that final wording that we put in. Yeah, yeah, I found that really important to come and to be involved with the town with the rec department and the rotary and the food shop. We do have a real nice diverse group of older to younger people that and it's fun when we do have an event to see them all come together and everybody has different skills and we need to to realize that, you know, certain people have skills that can bring to the table, young old and so we need diversity, I guess, and part of that, part of, you know, that's just how the town works. That's right. That's what makes it that's what makes the town. All right. Well, so we'll definitely get that. Thank you. And I guess one thing I was also saw was about like the campground type stuff. It just seemed like there was a way too much regulation on what it would take to actually create a campground in our town. And I was thinking we need to be a little bit open minded about that. And I know many gentlemen and elderly people that had dreams of setting up tents or have small campgrounds. And we just need to have draw to our little community and have things to come. And it would be great to have some kind of a campground. We just wouldn't want to have too much. We don't want to make it too hard for people to improve on their properties and improve on their homes. So we find it in commercial outdoor recreation, any use of land or structures for the provision of private outdoor recreational services that do not involve construction of substantial structures, examples, travel trailer parks, campgrounds, tennis courts, golf courses, and then we made it. And I think in some cases, if it's so, since it's commercial outdoor recreation, I think the only real caveat on it was that I think we made it a conditional use. It was just said that each site had to have a hundred feet of part barrier and a certain amount of material put in. And to me, it just said, like, wow, that would be a really big chunk to even think about creating something like that. Yeah, Dana, didn't you address you mentioned that over the last meeting where we talked about this, that that seems to be an extremely large lot size requirement. Yeah, if we go for a camp or see parks and stuff like that, which we have amazing state parks, they're, we could be camping right beside, you know, you guys could have your tent right there. They do, they don't have that huge of a, they don't have that hard regulation. And I do speak with a lot of people that, you know, would say, hey, I'd like to rent a few spots on my property and I would like to see that be able to happen just because, you know, we all got to pay our taxes and pay our gas bills and stuff in any way that our account was created. And I'm trying to come up with you, Carl, in my opinion. Right. Page nine, it's supposed to be. All right, let's see. It's travel trailers. Okay, Dr. Ears, that is short term rentals. Hey, we're just trying to find the right section. That doesn't address the, yeah. Wasn't that, that was under, like, Hamlin. Wasn't that, where was that page? Okay, and press. And they don't, you know, so. Under, you know, 6.1.3. Oh, 6.1. Okay, thank you. Oh, recreational vehicles, parks, campgrounds. 6.1.3. All right, here she's right. Here we go, she's always got it. All right, so it says each recreational vehicle shall be at least 2,500 square feet in area and have a compact gravel parking surface, at least 20 feet in width. That's fine. Sites restricted to tents shall be no less than 1,000 square feet. Each lodge should be located dry and well-drained area. There shall be an undeveloped area of not less than 100 feet in depth between all recreational vehicle tent sites and the adjacent property lines and the traffic portion of any way. So do you have an idea of, you know, sort of depth if it's not, like, 100s do you have? I would just try to bring it, you know, take a little bit of some of the, you know, the things off of some of, you know, just the general, when I went through it, it just, it is, it is quite a lot to take in. I went through it three different times. It is a lot. It is a lot. And I wanted to, you know, I wanted to read it to see how it was and just, the hard part for me is I didn't know where we're starting from. So I don't know what we already have. Oh, yeah. Well, that's why we did it. I printed to publish it this way. So you could see the only changes we made were in color. Yesterday. Yeah. So I didn't have this. I just had another one. So that's helpful. Yeah. So when you camp, do you think it's more like 75 feet, 50 feet? I mean, we talked about it. It's pretty variable. You know, it kind of, it's kind of wherever you can find a spot. And like our, our photography where we live is, you know, oh, well, here's a spot I can set up a tent site. It's flat. So then, you know, you would try to cultivate that spot. And I just, it would be fun to have people to be able to have lesser limitations to get projects out. Absolutely. And so that's just the general thing. My general feeling was, if you got to go to the tent to get permits for everything, then it's going to really take up a lot of you guys' time. And it's going to stall a lot of time for people to, to create and to get going. It's also, the other side of that is that sometimes people don't think about is that for the town, the zoning permit helps in the sense that, you know, the grand, the list is what drives the town and the state or our tax basis, higher school taxes set, how everything is done. So it's helpful to us to know what has happened. So if someone adds a building lot or builds a garage or builds a, because it raises, it adds value or subtracts value, if they tore something down to the grand list, which is what we base taxes on. So if the grand list rises and most, you know, if the budget doesn't rise, new taxes can lower. So it kind of keeps everybody on an even keel. So part of the reason for zoning is, yes, you know, for property development and trying to give people property rights, but also helps the town drive that, you know, that grand list that you want to be accurate. Because our grand list goes to the state and that's how they say your school taxes. So everybody, you know, all the grand list is drives all communities. So part of it's that, but yeah. I understand how that works. Yeah. Saying for somebody to come in all the time in the town office, it might overtax what you guys already have to do. And our governor has talked about how we have to worry about getting too much regulations to, and it will affect the growth. So, you know, when we do do this new review of our bylaws, we have to really make sure, you know, and I know you guys have been, but we really have to step lightly on what we put a thing on because it may affect somebody not even doing a project at all. You know, a lot of people will do the project and then tax them on it, but if they have to jump through some hoops, then it may really stem some growth. Sure. My concern. Well, five years ago, so we used to have zoning bylaws and subdivision bylaws. And so there are two different things. Now it's combined to streamline. It's a process better than it was before. So we have made improvements in that regard. The other thing we have to be careful about, too, is safety. Sure. David Aldriguetti was here. If there's an undocumented trail apart with X amount of units in somewhere, I'm sure that the safety organizations would like to know where they are and how they get to it when they have a call. So, you know, those type of things are, it's a balance. Yeah, it is a balance. Yeah, we'll make a note that it's under feet. Yeah, but certainly the size of that did come up and we didn't go anywhere with it. So we will definitely look at that because, yeah, 50, 2500 square feet can be hard to find. A flat spot in the room. Right. Well, to apply for that. And that's not to say that the lot itself has to be all flat. It would just have to be no more dense than that. Yeah. But that does sound. Yeah, because it would be great if we could have a campground in the battle. Sure. It would be fantastic. But the only problem that we have, it would have to be, most of our open areas are flood plain. Mm-hmm. So it would have to be up in the hill somewhere. I mean, what they do, they do state parks and, you know, all up through Lake Champlain, they're right on the water. I don't even know how. That's a little different because the lake does rise and fall, but it's not like, as we've seen with Irene, you know, any of these fields out through here. Yeah. There are some higher elevation fields around, but that would be, you know, when we take someone to decide to get into it. Yeah. And kind of touching on that base is where a lot of these people are doing like a hip camp or Airbnb things. And that's, I think, is a good thing to bring people into our area. And then they get to see our schools and stuff. So we want to be, you know, it says stuff about you can't, you know, have short-term rental and tent or camper or things like that. And there's huge, there's huge things where people do rent old campers or rent what do you call them? They have those little tiny homes. Yeah. Kind of tiny homes with those yurt things. Oh, yeah. You know, they have them. They're really nice. And it's, you know, a fairly low investment for somebody to create. And it brings people to Bethel and it kind of brings outdoor people and, you know, people that we kind of want to explore some of our trails and see some of our history and stuff. So we have a lot to offer. We just need places for people to come. And, you know, when we have our snowmobile show and stuff, we have a real challenge of getting anybody to stay. You know, that's a hard thing for having people come here. Even relatives, when they show up, you know, there's not a whole lot for them to stay. And so related to commercial recreational areas, campgrounds, health and sanitation, I assume would be part of any development along that line. That's correct. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, all that would have to be that was through the DRB process. And that's all you guys. No, this is the Planning Commission. Planning? Yeah. So the Planning Commission writes the guidelines and the DRB implements it. So when you have a proposal, you go to the DRB Development Review Board to go through that process. Yeah. That's new. That's new, right? Because it used to be just the town manager in mind, or has it always had that? No, there's, if you fit the category, what you're trying to do, you meet setback and everything, and it does, there's nothing to do in that kicks it into a DRB hearing. The zoning administrator, Teresa, can issue that. So if you see under the category, it says permitted use, permitted use, but then Kelly and I can approve those permits. But if it says conditional use, or it's a subdivision, then you go to the DRB Development Review Board. Yeah, it's an easy process. And something else to remember that Eric reminded me of is that after this process is done, most likely in September, we'll be starting a review of the town plan. So the bylaws are governed by the town plan. So that's a time also to get involved to make sure everything that's in that is in. Now, I was curious if we could use the board out here a little bit better, like if we had to have the fire band recently, because there is a lot of people that aren't on the online as much. And so that little board, and like for this meeting also, I would usually just use it for the select board meetings, because that would be handy. A lot of people do look at it. I do. That would be a great thing to bring to the select board. Okay, so it's recent. Because somebody had a fire recently, and they just didn't know. Yeah, it's a statewide park band. That's for owners. That's an excellent suggestion. Just to talk to you, I've been to a lot of Vermont State Parks, and they're not all on Flatland. And if you go out to Gifford State Park, you go up to Silver Lake. It's flat where, well, Silver Lake where the water is, but all the campgrounds all go up, and then they're all leveled off. So to try to find one big fat flat piece of property. Yeah. Most state parks are probably around the lake there, but generally state parks are they go up. Yeah, yep. So yes, sir. This is a report. It's a statement in the form of a question. Okay. What has happened since the late 18th century that will require such a missile? There's so much in here. 118 pages, granted, a lot of it is redundant. I mean, it could have been half of this report. It's so redundant. Some of these things are absurd. You're going to tell people how many can be in a bedroom. You're going to tell people about the caretaker's house and the size of it. How many of this and that? I mean, you're going to have big brother coming in the middle of the night to see who's in the bedrooms. There's so much in here that is a function of you folks just sitting down to make rules because it gives you a lot of power and a feeling that you're accomplishing something and you're very important. And that's what most of this part is all about. All about you feel very empowered. And a lot of it, I just can't believe what has happened since the late 18th century that require not a half report of what's in here. And that's rhetorical. Well, just let me just say that these bylaws in some form have been in effect in this town since 1986 or seven, I believe. So it's not anything new. I'm sorry, I had a very good hearing, but you're speaking very low. Okay, okay. The bylaws back in the day, the zoning and the subdivision, have been in effect in this town since the mid 80s, mid to late 80s. So it's not anything that we've added now. It's been something that since we're part of two rivers, that's the Regional Planning Commission and I agree. Some of it is a little bit of overreach, but it's the, I mean, it's either we have no zoning regulations and we leave everything up to act 250 who don't even live in the town. So at least you have a board or town residents that you can come and talk to about this. And I struggled with that too. And that's the reason why I got on the Development Review Board years ago because I had a project that I felt was reasonable and I got a lot of hassle in it. So I went on the DRB and tried to make it work with people, try to work with people with what's out here. So I agree it's a bit of a bearing, but it is what it is at this point. Driven by the state of Vermont. So some of it is legislation that we are handed, we don't have any say because Vermont is a Dillon rule, is a Dillon rule states, which means the only authority we have as towns is what is granted to us by the state. So when they pass, you know, some of the legislation they pass, we have no choice. We, they say, if you have zoning, you have to do this and so. You're in good company. No, if you're really. You're looking for people on the Planning Commission. And the DRB. And the DRB. Yep. And the Energy Committee. And with these bylaws, I guess is when I'm getting back to where we just got to worry about, we don't want to over tax our public servants of people that are doing it. We don't want to get people upset when, you know, we want to have it. So people are happy to pay their taxes. We want people to say, you know what? My road was great the other day. I'm psyched. I'm going to pay my taxes. Right. We want to have people come in and say, thank you for working and doing this for us. We don't, we're just worried that by putting too many bylaws and kind of mucking up some of the processes of having and I totally agree that you need to have stuff that keeps things in line. But we're just always getting, you know, the taxes have always been going up. We're not going down. We're getting, we're getting less and less of everything. And then all of a sudden we get a huge thing that says this, it is confusing for a lot of people to read this and they get upset about it. And we have been having regular monthly meetings, sometimes quite some months for a while to talk about it and get input and, you know, definitely. So yeah, I got you. We don't want to tell you every time as we read it and we agree. Yes, anybody else. So for many years I had to play some Bristol, Bristol notch surrounded by a national forest. And I went to the town to ask a lot of questions in terms of because it was, it was 40 acres and how to stream running through it that fed Middlebury with 40% of its water by the stream. So I had to be very careful what I did. And I went to them and this is the other side of the point, which is probably no good either. They told me to do whatever you want to do. So I'm saying to myself, you mean I can build a high rise apartment? I didn't ask that, but I'm thinking that's crazy. So I ended up building a lot cabin and the manager of Middlebury sued me because he said by doing so I was going to pollute their reservoir of water, their water. So I had to go through a whole procedure with selecting a lawyer and I finally got an okay because they told the Forest Service, not to grant me permission, put the road through their national forest land to my property. So Forest Service listened to them and did that until I got the selection of the degree that that would be okay. And I wouldn't be polluting the water, which of course I would go to lengths not to do. But they, I was there for many years, I just sold the place a couple years ago and it was real wilderness retreat because you had natural forest all around. This was a private piece. But it was 180 degrees from this, which is probably no good either. But strike that balance. I'm sorry. So yeah, I was, but having, knowing that, that there was sort of no requirements, no restrictions, Bristol seemed to be a pretty thriving town. I don't know how many of you are familiar with Bristol? Yep, yep. I don't know. It's the man who invented the ballpoint pen that just stopped the road from me, Val Luss, and he had a big spread and did things and he didn't bother anyone. Yeah, it's, it's, it's a dilemma because as I say, Royalton has no zoning. Hunbridge has no zoning. Royalton's been thriving really good too, you know, and we have, we have very good opportunity to get a lot of stuff done here and to bring a lot here. You know, we, we have a lot of fun in Bethel. And there's a lot of go-getters in Bethel and sometimes a lot of the go-getters don't fit into the, the molds, you know, that everybody's so different. Right, right. And I say the DRV tries to work with whatever, whatever comes to us. And it's not like we've had a few subdivisions, which is good lately, come to us, which means people are trying to create some more housing out there within the guidelines of our, our regulations. But typically it's not like we're terribly overburdened with, with applications for things. And that may be part of it as they look at it and say, I'm not going to deal with what's going through the process. But, you know, we do what we can, the town office personnel are willing to talk with anyone, talk them through what, what needs to be done, go through the, the bylaws with them to help them understand. So we do think the town does what they, Yeah, we've had a lot of confidence. People saying that the process is easy. And, but we always try and turn around the past. Yeah. I hear you, Svars. The number of pages of information. Does anybody else have any questions? I did read the whole thing. So a lot, but again, I found so much to be redone. Yeah. And some of it's redundant for a reason. Wanted to seek in. No, it's just that it's very complex. Yeah, it is because some things relate to others and, you know, we're always finding things in there that are interesting. Yeah, interesting. I had to roll my eyes at some of it. I'm sure you did. I'm sure you did. And you're not alone on that. Believe it or not. Any other specific concerns as far as, um, Hey, Rick. Yes. Hi, Paul Valley. Rick, can you talk a little bit about the rationale and the reasoning behind changing the lot size requirements by a half and what the advantages or disadvantages of that? Oh, sure. Well, the advantages. Yep. The advantage is to try to create more housing, more opportunity for housing as is in great need right now. So unfortunate, although we worked with it with the conservation commission who have representatives here for tonight. They had, they had concerns about our initial plan, which was to expand that a little further in the outer districts. So we did scale that back. We did want to increase density in the Hamlet district. However, for whatever reason, it's that is specific in our town plan that it can be no larger than what current exists. So we were not able to, we'll address that hopefully in our, in our town plan revisions because the Hamlet districts again are more dense areas of dwellings and could, could have more density there. But was it also medium density? That we were going to reduce? Right, right. To, I can't remember. Yeah. Yes. So there's a couple of things that if the town plan already says we can't do it. Says shall be. Yeah, then we can't do it for the zoning regs. So the town plan would have to change because that was one of the things we were thinking about doing with reducing the lot size and medium density district from four acres to two acres, right? And, but we couldn't because it said that in the town plan because that was the big push for two rivers. There was seven towns or the state of Vermont is supposed to be a, you know, by what are we supposed to be? How many housing units short by 2030? So that was their thing was to increase density so that people are thought was, you don't have to, but it would give people flexibility to do more with their land if they were allowed to subdivide or something to, to give them more freedom to do so, but we couldn't. So when we do the town plan in September, we're going to have to take a look at that. So, right. So which areas were you allowed to do that in? Village and core business. Right. Well, village is, you know, routinely very small lots to begin with. Right. Um, but nothing outside, let's say on the Gilead or out Christian Hill or out in those kinds of areas. Uh, not at this point. We, we might later, but we have to do the town plan first. Didn't you, yes, we can have accessory units. Yep. We did add, add provisions for more accessory units. Right. Thanks. Thanks, Danny. Yep. Yep. To help, to help, uh, you know, do, uh, had an apartment over a garage, that sort of thing and your existing property. So, so you can have some income from that as well as provide housing. But, but that does not provide for clusters. Cluster. No, because there's no room really to do that in those areas. We do, we do encourage in, you know, in, in the, uh, rural and conservation, we do encourage cluster, um, housing in those areas. It's, it's written in our, in our bylaws. And plan unit development is a part of our bylaws. Okay. So plan development. Right. Could take place on a larger project. Yes. Right. Right. And there's a whole, there's a whole section on that. Yeah. I think back a few years ago, and that's been a big push. That's what was the genesis of this whole, whole rewrite or revision was for that specific purpose, create more housing. Where it said when, when you are issued, um, you're, you're to build or do something like that, your permit, it says that permit is, it is with your property for, for the life of the property. But yet it only says that permit is only good for like two years. But for the build out for building for, for whatever the purpose of the permit was issued for. Yeah. It gives you a two year window to, to complete that. That seems really. If you don't, you just come back and, and, and apply for renewal, renewal basically. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I just, I've known many houses. I've been hired in my parents' house still being built, you know, since 1980. Well, oh, I see. And once it's over a percent complete, that doesn't matter. That also says we did change that to give more flexibility. And we also said before we had said it had to be done by a certain time. Now we're saying it has to be started, I think, because wording that we changed to, to try to give more. Yeah. Because it's just so much. I mean, yeah, you're doing it yourself. We had two years of the COVID where you couldn't get nothing. Wow. Yeah. So, I mean, you never know how our economy is going to work or how, you know, things work where there's so many variables in that two year period. It seems pretty, it would be wonderful if you could build something in two years. It seems that's, that's would be a challenge. And what it means by staying with your property is, say, you sold your house or your property in a few years, then when someone comes in to do your title search, say they, the realtors walked around and you have, I don't know, four outbuildings in a house, then they're going to be looking to make sure you have zoning permits to match those. So that's what they mean by stays with your house, so that we keep a file. So that way when, say you sold your house, people can come and do a title search and they'd be like, Oh, great, your house is all good. And he has all his permits. And so that's what they mean by that part. Okay. Yeah. Yeah, that's all. Yeah, that's all. I was curious. Yeah. And actually it's kind of cool is we have like bipartisan numbers. So we have the whole history of that property. So even if you didn't build it as far back as our zoning, so it's helpful. It kind of helps your title stay clean and makes it easier for people if you're going to sell to do a title search. Yeah, we think there are people with financial constraints so that they wouldn't be able to complete construction within two years. Well, again, they can certainly come back in and ask for extension. What would they be told? They would be told, well, I can't say myself for the board. I've only known we did have a subdivision out on far out on North Main Street 10 years ago. Maybe a little more than that. That was done prior to our last financial downturn. So it was even more longer than 10. It was before 2008, I think. And they came back in 2009. They came back twice for renewal, which the DRB granted. And then it just... Well, I'm glad it was. It was never developed, unfortunately. And the property's been sold recently and I don't know what to... But I guess the point I'm making is what's the downside of someone taking more than two years? Well, I think the intent of that is just... If you have a half-built house sitting somewhere on the street, it's not a great thing to look at, I suppose, is maybe where it came from. But again, if there's visual progress, then I can't see where, in my own personal opinion, where an extension wouldn't be granted. Yeah, it just says that it should be commenced within a period of two years and substantially completed within three years, unless construction has been delayed by litigation to secure other permits. If it's a permit that we issued, that Kelly or myself issued, as a permitted use, we've had people come in and say, hey, I ran into something. And we're like, okay, check it out and just let them renew. It's... Yeah, it's romantic after all. We're actually very user-friendly. We don't let... It's pretty easy to come in. If they have a granted a permit, then people run into stuff. So it's fine. We don't have a problem with that. And the DRB is always flexible and can work with people. So... Yeah, it's important to be flexible. And that's where, when you read this, it doesn't say we're flexible off the two years. Well, it can't because eventually what happens is, if something... Unfortunately, if I approved a zoning permit and something wrong, then people could appeal to the DRB. But if I... But if the DRB issued a permit and something... Someone didn't like the decision or whatever, then it goes to environmental court. And again, we're also driven by state statute. So we also have to... We just... It's hard to just say we're flexible because that's not a legal definition of this. So, but yeah. So, Uriah, would you... If there was a sentence in there saying that applicants may apply for an extension... I think it does say that in... It does say about extensions. I just was saying that this was two years just seemed really... Up front. You know, a real heavy deadline for some of these projects that... That is... A lot of times people get permits to get a building bill and their contractors stuck at some other job and they couldn't get the thing going and you wasted a whole year of your time because the guy couldn't show up. There is a lot of variables that kind of come into that. Yeah, and I think the extension here is kind of inferred that it's been delayed by litigation to secure other permits. It doesn't really address whatever other issues might come along. So it might be some wording that could be added to that that would... Yeah, just to help with life. Unperceivable. Unperceivable. Unperceivable. Yeah. Okay. So we'll take a look though. We'll put it on the list. Yeah. Because if you're thinking about a project before you even apply for a permit, talk to the zoning people and say, what do I need to do so that if I go before the DRB, it'll go through. Yep. I mean, then you've got somebody who knows the code forward and back and they can help you with that prepare for that. I met with somebody today about that. Anything else that you've noticed that some good points brought up here? When is your next meeting, in case we do? Well, the next meeting will be... We haven't said it yet. The Select Board's public hearing. Because once the DRB, when we close the public hearing, the PC will have our meeting and then we'll discuss these issues. And then the PC has to transfer, it's a whole legal thing, to transfer it to the Select Board. And then the Select Board has it and they have to have it for at least 15 days before they can warn their hearing 15 days later. And this is how the state works. So I think that it will be June when the Select Board has their public hearing on this only bylaws. But we'll put out the, you know, if there's a new, if we make any changes, we'll put out a new draft on the website and stuff. And who makes the final decision, the Select Board? Select Board, yes. Yep. We did, certainly did encourage the Select Board. Obviously they have it, they've read it. But if they had any changes that they thought, that they wanted to make, that they came to this meeting so that they could discuss them themselves with the PC. And then once it goes to them, you know, they can make changes. If they make what's loosely termed, I believe, a substantial change, then it can get kicked back to the PC. But, you know, so we've tried to encourage the Select Board to, you know, stay involved as the process goes along so that if there was anything, they could talk to the PC. But there is no vote by the populace on it. No, planning in Bethel, it's not voted on. It's not, um, Australian ballot by the voters. No, public questions or not. Yes? If someone wants to build a building, who decides what, at what point it's complete? If you build a building and from the outside, it's completely complete. Sheds, water, roofing, siding, trim work. Yeah, we actually talked about that because that was my issue. I'm like, how am I supposed to know if this is substantially complete? And I think we ended up coming up with a definition because I'm like, I'm not a builder, you know. So, uh, I think that we, because that was my thing too. I mean, I have a property that I bought a few years ago. We've been approving it. We'd like to keep improving it. And eventually we're going to build a structure there, but we build a house these days out of pocket. Yeah, this time. It's crazy money, like Mariah had mentioned. And, you know, I'm just curious if you've got a house, a structure that's completely weatherproof, weathertight. Yeah. Animals can't get in and out. Humans can't get in and out. Well, I'll tell you what it says and you can tell me if this works. So we, we put in a structure is substantially completed when it has all the permitted conditions satisfied, has all major components in place, foundation, roof, siding, windows, electrical plumbing, heating, and is usable for its intended use. For new construction or permitted renovation, this includes a filing of a certificate that the structure meets. That's with the new standard that the state wants. If they don't know if they've passed it, the residential energy standards or the business ones. So, so basically this definition is saying that you have to, it has to be usable for its intended use, which means if you're building a house, it needs to be done. You need to be living in it or not living in it, but it's got to be done. I mean, if you had trim work, painting that's not done, I mean, that's... Yeah, well, I'm just talking about building, like building the structure. It would be no different than a potentially unfinished garage, essentially, an uninsulated, non-wired garage. So it would be the same type of structures. Where did you find that definition? The one you just read to me. We don't know if we, did we get it in the state or Kevin Geiger? Because we were, I don't remember. Two rivers? Maybe from two rivers or... Oh, I'm sorry. It's on the page, it's under the definitions, under S for substantially, or under S, so substantially complete. In my draft, it's on page 122. But yeah, because we struggle with this, because as the zoning administrator, I, you know, I'm not a builder. That's all right. So we came up with this. So this is how we came up. And you can see where it talks about residential energy standards and commercial building energy standards, but... We'll be back to Mr. Krauss's point where it's what it was. Like you said, if you're going to build something, you talk to the zoning people and find out how you're going to get it approved. Let's go back to them. That's the best way to do it. When does the two, you know, how much will happen? To have done it in two years. Yeah, and you could, like we said, you could get, you know, you could renew your permit or... But yeah, that's why we've had, you know, we've put a definition in there, because we had talked about substantially complete. And so, you know, a lot of the front of the blue, they got their money, they'll invest in part of it and they'll go get to work and they'll invest in their windows or their door, so... Right, and now I get the process. I have somebody down the street doing the same thing, so a life. So I understand that, certainly, you know, in some cases, you know, you build as you can and, you know, just enclose it and work on it. Would you know approximately the size of a pond with 35,000 cubic feet of water? In other words, an average pond is usually about, overall, about 70 feet deep. You know, it's a dug pond with shallow area and a deep area. But, you know, do you, anyone know approximately what that would be? We just did that. We went through that process this past summer for a pond that we put in and it's... I want to say it's about 40 feet across and it's an, it's not a, it's a pond. So it's 40 feet across and maybe 60 feet. I'm sorry? Maybe 60 feet. 40 by 40? 40 by 60, roughly. And how deep? And we're about, I'd say we're about 10 or 12 feet deep and that's, should be, should be under 35,000 pounds. Thank you. What happens if you're already up a pond that's larger than that? If it's already in existence, you wouldn't... Fill it in. If you're going to expand it, then you're going to be subject to the... Be grandfathered if it's already there. Yeah. Right. What's the average depth of that pond that you built? The average depth? Yeah. Oh boy. Well, it's obviously it goes like this. Yeah, it's probably 78 feet. It's not even that. I don't want to say it's probably six. Well, six feet I would, six foot I would. 40 by 60. Now I'm going to do the math and I'm going to come out way wrong. That's okay. I was just, you know, I just saw the cubic feet figure so I was wondering how it worked out. I'm sorry? No, it's something we all said to. Yeah, it talks about gallons. So even that, you've got it. Oh, right. And you've got a hold of it, that having just put the pond in that it'll actually get to 35,000 gallons. Well, we would drink a lot in this area. Well, ponds are good. They provide habitat for wildlife and if the fire department unfortunately has to come in, they have to source some water. Yeah. As long as they're maintained and not above other houses. Yeah. Yes, another thing I had in Bristol I asked them. I said, can I build a pond? You can do whatever you want. So I built a pond. It was a quarter of an acre. It wasn't a big pond. But I took water from the stream. They didn't want me to impound the stream because of the Middlebury situation, which is fine. So I had a two inch spot flex hose because it was gravity-fed because the stream went up and I gravity-fed the water and took the pond. It was a stand-by, took the water out. So as much as it went in, went out to the Middlebury. But there were all constraints. I could have put a 10 acre pond. But a pond that's 50 by 60 by 10 feet would be 30,000 feet. 30,000 cubic feet. 35,000 cubic feet? No, it would be less than 35 feet. If it's 50 by 60 by average of 10 feet deep. I'm pretty sure we're not going to get there with our pond. Yeah, I couldn't visualize a 35,000. So I was just wondering what dimensions would be roughly. All right. Okay, any other concerns? And again, there is another opportunity. So if you want to continue going through it, select board will have a hearing sometime in June. We presume. So if we do find something in there, can we come right to the town office and talk to you, Teresa, about something in here? Yeah, sure. Counts, come on in. Send me an email. Whatever. Doesn't have to be in the center letter or something like that. Yeah, no. No, just come in. There, come in. Or if I'm not, just, you know, if you have a change written down, give it to Kelly and take a look at it. But leave, you know, your email or phone number in case I don't have it, Uriah. I would want to call you back. Yeah, I'm just wondering about generally people that have any concerns with this stuff. Yeah, no. We always encourage people to come in if they have questions or... So you don't have to wait for the meeting? No, no, no. No. Yeah, I didn't mean to infer that. No, no. Come on in. Yeah, anytime you have a question. Yeah, just come in. If Kelly, as Kelly's out front, if she, you know, she's the assistant zoning ministry, so if she can't answer, she'll, you know, point you in my direction. So happy to, happy to come in. Well, if there's nothing else that you want to discuss tonight, we can close the hearing. But again, I want to make sure everybody has had the opportunity to ask the questions that they want. I'd like to just personally thank all of you for doing this work because it's not easy. Thank you. I know none of you really are crazy about doing it. They are crazy. You are just crazy. Yeah, it's hard work and it's frustrating at times. And I really appreciate your doing it, of course. Well, and we very much appreciate the input Conservation Commission. You guys worked pretty closely with us. And I'll just say to everyone, what I said earlier to a couple of people, that you went over this document and over this document. I was maybe at four or five meetings, and I saw it happen each time at those meetings. Word for word for word. It was reviewed, so. And we still found a typo in our GRB meeting. Yeah, Tuesday night. Rick's like, Chris, there's a mistake. And I'm like, oh, Lord, you're kidding me. It was a minor, but it was just funny. But I think it's interesting. I mean, it sounds crazy, but once you get into it, it's actually pretty interesting. And you know, you get a little frustrated if there's stuff coming down the pike. Like there might be right now from the state. And we just went through all this to adjust our zoning regulations. And the state may pass legislation that will make us change, amend the zoning regs. I'm like, that's frustrating. But we'll see what they pass. And because again, it would be, if they pass it, we have no choice. We have to change. We have to amend. So, but I know it's pretty interesting, but we're looking for people. So any one of you, we would love to have you on the Planning Commission, DRB, Energy Committee, need people at the shooting range, if you're a hunter, or just, you know, into, you know, for gun safety, target shooting. If you have time, we have a committee for you. I'm on it. Yep, getting involved. That's right. We'd love to have you. That's what creates a working town. You know, you have so much difference. You know, you got the mailman. You get the, you know, the park stores. You know, you've got quite a, you know, quite a little town, and it's very fortunate we can run to have our grocery store, have our sandwich shops, and pizza places, and things like that. Yeah, and they need our support, because if they're not there, we're driving to Randolph. That's right. Or we'll tell them. Okay, well, thank you very much for participating and keep your eye open. It'll be, it'll be worn. It'll be in the paper for the Select Board hearing. It'll be on front porch form on the website. And the revised, the revisions that we make again tonight will be on there too. And we're having, still having a plan and commission meeting, so just because the public hearing closes, you know, we still have to meet, so. If you want to hang around for four, you're welcome to. So we will formally close at 734.