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One more thing before we get to this incredibly awesome episode we have a sale going on right now two of our most popular workout programs maps hit and maps split so maps it is high intensity interval training maps split is a traditional bodybuilding style split workout both of them 50% off all month long in the month of December so if you're interested head over to maps fitness products calm and then use the code DEC 5 0 says DEC 5 0 no space for that massive discount alright here comes the show look aesthetics tends to follow performance but performance doesn't always follow aesthetics in other words. If you train to move better you're probably gonna look better if you train to look better you won't always move better. Discuss yeah yeah it's true it is it's one of those things it's like. Like you know if you work out to improve mobility and function and control and strength and stamina what typically follows that is a balanced symmetrical strong looking physique. The other isn't always true there's a lot of people that train hard for aesthetics and they sacrifice movement because in the pursuit of aesthetics and then because they continue to sacrifice movement they start to get injuries they move poorly and they slowly start to lose their you can get hyper focused on certain areas of your body and you know really bring them up but once we keep like focusing on segmenting the body and not considering the whole it's gonna affect the how everything performs together harmoniously and so that's that's something that you always got to consider that in terms of like when we're in a certain phase too long especially in just focusing on aesthetics it's how how can I now apply this these muscles that I've acquired and how how are they functioning as opposed to just how big in you know yeah you know it's funny is that when I was younger I remember obviously my goal is I wanted to get big right I want to build muscle and then and this is one piece of performance performance encompasses like everything that has to do with how you move and stuff but. I remember these power lifters as I was a kid I was young kid and they told me you want to get big they said if you get if you just get stronger you're going to get bigger don't worry about anything else just get stronger right now. And you're going to build that muscle and I did I just focus and it was like God it was that summer I think I gained like 15 pounds of muscle because I listened to what they says okay I'm just going to get strong. And see what happens and it blew away the results I had before where I was just focused on you know oh I got to make myself look a particular way and I made a big difference I don't know if I fully agree. I mean you're implying that if you train like an athlete you could look like an athlete not necessarily but yeah well let me put it this way. If you only train for performance you're probably going to get a great deal of aesthetics if you only train for aesthetics. Think of all the people you know only train for love yeah I see what you said I don't agree with that I think that there's a lot of kids there's a lot of. The adults to that are training like athletes in hopes that they're going to look like athletes that never get to that place because their diet so fucked and or their performance training sucks. Well okay all things being performance in athletics I agree with athletic training wise but performance wise in terms of like you know compound lifts and considering more of a holistic you know functional type of strength training versus yeah because I do agree people that try to do these explosive movements like athletes and everything it doesn't always present you know the greatest physique and also you get a lot of issues and problems in that direction because that's the extreme of. You know what we're talking about so it's but in terms of the opposite end of that you know I would consider if that's your entire focus is just to build up your. Your aesthetics like you you know you may be diminishing a lot of the quality of your movement as a whole yeah I agree with yeah and also I agree that training like the training like to look a certain way. More often than not leads to poor movement right a lot of bodybuilders including myself when I went through the competing years. Some of my worst movement patterns came from training like a meathead because all I cared about was how I looked not how I performed and so you neglect a lot of the exercises and movements that. That helped with that and I wasn't doing it because it didn't it didn't give me the biggest bang for my buck when it came to building my shoulders or my chest so I agree with the statement on that side but I. I don't look you guys the context has to okay obviously all things being equal right you can have a crappy diet train particular way expect to look better that's not what I'm saying what I'm saying is. All things being created equal if you if you always are focused on looks eventually and I'm talking about longevity speaking eventually you're going to lose your ability to do certain exercises. You develop aches and pains your move will start your movement quality will start to decline and what follows that well now you start to lose your aesthetics versus taking care of your ability to move working on ranges of motion. Doing exercises that have the most bang for the buck that's what I mean by when I say performance so you know I'm glad he said you said Justin because it's not just the aesthetics when I'm saying performance I mean it in the general holistic sense. Yeah and I think too you got to consider like objective and subjective type of feedback and how you're how you're evaluating all of that right so you know there's a lot more objective type of data in terms of like is my strength increasing I could see that when I'm training more for performance. You know versus like am I am I gaining the kind of size and shape and you know like there's a lot more. Well the subject. My point is this there's a there's a hell of a lot more people that are interested in what your professional athletes are doing and are trying to emulate what they're doing and that are failing and not getting the results they want then the people that are trying to emulate what bodybuilders are doing. There's a much smaller group of people that look up to bodybuilders and train that way then there are kids and people that look at professional athletes like Tom Brady and want to know what is he doing diet wise what is he doing training wise. I'm going to follow that so it's that's the wrong team obviously you still got to train right for your body. I know but I'm just thinking that that statement that you're saying is meant to be is meant to be a statement and then we talk about it. It can be can be true but I think that you're missing a bigger portion of people who you're communicating to because somebody hears performance and athletic training and they think train like an athlete. That's what people hear they hear that they don't think your guys is textbook definition of it if you do your way off. How do you train like an athlete. Do you copy another athlete's routine. Most people yes that's not what you do. Well that's my point though. Exactly. That's my and that's good. I'm glad you're saying that. You still have to train appropriately for your body. So this is all going to be very individual. So this doesn't mean follow someone else's routine that's inappropriate. You're going to follow a pro NFL players routine is very specific to that individual what they're trying to accomplish their history their body their position on the field like all that stuff. That's wrong. But if you train yourself and your focus is movement and performance you're more likely to get the longevity with your aesthetics than if it's only always on aesthetics. So also your influencers and your IG people and your magazine cover people and like not just bodybuilders but you know all these like aesthetically good looking people like they apply their routine which is completely wrong. Yes. I mean there's no doubt it's on both sides but when you think of general population of people out there sports it has such a huge influence on kids and people and the way they train. That's why that's why they always go get some athlete and they put them on the front cover or some movie star. Yeah and it sells and it sells to millions not a few hundred people. You walk up to 10 people on the street randomly and ask them to name you know five bodybuilders and they won't be able to tell you but name five professional athletes you want to look like and I bet you they can do that. You're right. You're right but I think it's a mistake to take performance and say it's it's how this professional athlete plays that's what performance is. No here's what I'm talking about. It's for performance for my grandma is hey grandma let's see if we can get you to walk down the street versus just halfway up. Yeah you've improved your performance or my dad. Hey dad I know your back hurts when you bend over so improve your performance. Let's see if we can get you to bend over further. Lift this without pain. Yeah can you lift like that's what I mean by performance is your ability to perform better move better better ranges of motion less pain stronger more connected. If you improve upon those metrics and keep that in focus you're going to get longevity and you're going to get of course all things being equal you get a great deal of aesthetics. On the other side if I just if it's like oh I'm just going to focus on my weight. I'm just going to focus on how ripped I get or how how I look in the mirror which Justin made a great point so subjective. If you have any type of body image issue which most people do you hold a little bit of water hold a little less water. You know lighting is different. I don't feel so good about myself today. Boy is my opinion going to change drastically based on that. I mean how many times have you had a client look at a picture of themselves five years prior and say oh my God I look amazing. But I remember in that picture I thought it looked so terrible versus performance which is very objective. I was able to squat more weight or I was able to do this with an inch deeper position with more control and so my form looks so much better. Well we all agree that that's the most healthy approach towards fitness period is looking at your performance how you perform in the gym opposed to how you look. Totally. You know paying attention to how you look. It's a hard one right because you don't want to tell people hey you can't have a goal to look better or you can't have a goal to get abs. You can't like you don't want to tell. Because that's the majority of what they're coming in there for. Right. You just I think the idea is to just to warn them where that potentially could lead if that is your main focus and it's a much healthier approach to to look at movement over that. But I think performance for a lot of people just translates to athletic ability and I think that athletes are the first thing that people look to. I think it's one of the biggest one of the biggest problems that are in the space is that you've got professional athletes that people aspire to be like. Whether they like them as a person or they love their team and they like the way they look and so they try and follow that and they think that this. Oh this is performance is what they would mind pump meant when they said train for performance is to do that. Yeah you know along those lines the extremes are usually not the best and I don't care what pursuit you're after. Right. So if I look at the extreme performance in terms of strength I may look at you know 350 pound power lifter. You know strong man. Yeah or a strong man right and that is extreme performance but I think in those extreme cases you lose a lot. You know of the other stuff right extreme endurance runner or extreme muscle hypertrophy or any of that stuff. So I think this is in the context of overall general and for that individual and if if your goal like I used to tell us this took me a long time to figure out. But when I got to the point where I remember where I said oh you know my clients I said you know what here's what I want you to do. I want you to go to the gym and practice these exercises just get better at these exercises and then the results are going to follow. Don't worry about hammering your legs get better at squatting for example don't worry about you know blasting your shoulders. I want you to get really good at overhead pressing I want you to get really good you know at doing these suspension trainer W's or whatever. And when they would do that and they'd go in with that focus it was like everything else fell into place versus when they would go to the gym and say oh I got to look better. I got to more I want to hammer my claws or I want to hammer my glutes. Which just seems that that with that mentality the goalpost just keeps moving and like you said like you. That's why sometimes you'd like to take your client back and show them like look how far you've you've got. You know and like a lot of times they have to like visually see that because they just look at themselves currently at where they're at and where the flaws are. It's always like looking at their body in terms of where the flaws are and it's it just never seems like it's achievable. Yeah it isn't because they're not addressing the root cause that's why the goalpost keeps moving because it's really an insecurity issue. It's not really a 10 pound or 20 pound there's nothing to fill that hole. That's right. It's a it's a bottomless pit because you think you look at yourself in the mirror and you go oh I hate the way I look. I just need to lose 30 pounds you lose the 30 pounds and then you're in the boat you're saying right now. And that's because the problem wasn't the 30 pounds you didn't address the real problem first and so it'll just it'll just keep moving that goalpost. You know it's funny I was talking to Arthur Brooks good friend of mine he's also an expert on happiness so he's the one that looks at all these studies. He's a professor he teaches about this and he studies all these different metrics that contribute to happiness and physical appearance and looks right. A lot of people think oh my god if I'm beautiful if I have the perfect body I'm going to be so much happier. What he actually finds in the literature as well studied is let's say you're in the middle let's say on a scale of one to five your average good looks. And then you like dedicate your life to looking better I mean you train you eat right you get plastic surgery you get on anabolic steroids and hormones and you do the whole thing. And you go from a five to a 10 your happiness goes up like a percent it's like it has such a small impact on your overall happiness he says it's like one of the worst investments of time if that's all it is your goal in terms of making yourself happier. Now in terms of like improving your health then there's a big impact right. Oh I feel better I have more energy which gives me more time to do things that I love. I'm not as sick as often then there's huge returns when it comes to happiness so it's really and they find this with money to by the way that in the studies on money are very interesting. Once you meet and there was a there was a number that they came up with but it's an old number it's 70 something thousand yeah it's it's old though I'm sure it's a little higher now. It covers your survival needs and all that kind of baseline yeah I think I think there was 70 something thousand lower middle class yeah it's like lower middle class once you reach that so that obviously it changes on the state. You're not worrying about food and rent and electricity and you've got basic necessities once your basic necessities are covered you can go out to dinner every once in a while when you want to you don't you're not laid on any bills you have a car and everything that the that is a huge like not having that and then having that makes a big life changing yeah that can be life changing but then from there up it's like percentages very very small and the higher you go the less it matters like you're a millionaire to a billionaire. It's like and I would even make the case that it potentially even gets worse because your expectations are that when I reach a quarter million a year I'm going to be happy. Oh shit I got there I'm not happy when I reach a half a million and what ends up happening is it's this never ending chase so you probably get discouraged or frustrated with that it never ends up feeling. Unless you're applying like consistent gratitude disciplines right and you're you're focused on like positive and good things that are happening in conjunction with that it's like otherwise if you're still that mentality of like well I'm not here yet and I don't have this yet and it just becomes like this addiction. It's such an interesting dance and it's I mean I'm still working on this right how do you how do you stay motivated to keep pursuing like growth in business or financial right like and you guys know that I'm why I always get like this right where I get frustrated or I'm because I want more I want us to do more or whatever but then also recognizing look at we've done and look how happy everyone is so it and then I also don't want to find myself getting complacent. Yes we're you know like it's so it's like this that fine dance of like how do I stay present and have have gratitude but at the same time to strive to push so again these are very reflective of your fitness state. Yeah similar conversations I had with with again with Arthur Brooks I love his information on this and there's a couple things with that one is the if you're doing something that has a deeper sense of purpose and meaning. Then you'll get you'll you'll derive a tremendous amount of value out of it so in other words if your business is if what you're doing your business you really feel like I would do this even if I made way less money and I really really like the people that I'm helping and it's making a huge impact so I want to get better at that and the side effect of that is you keep making more money but the driver really is that meaning and purpose aspect. Yeah. Then you'll keep growing and you'll side effect of that. I hundred percent I hundred percent think that is the secret to scaling a massive company is always going back to probably what motivated beginning which was that you know providing value to somebody else. Why. And so as as it gets more complex and there's more moving parts and there's more money coming in from these different places is that I get distracted by milestones financially a dollar amount but remember reminding yourself that oh this was how can I look back go very beginning again and go like okay look at everything we're doing how do I provide even more value for those people that are already. How do I stay on this meaning. Stay focused on and on an adding value to their life knowing that it'll inevitably scale up and it will it'll produce more. And then the other thing with money that I was gonna say that I thought was very interesting is when people make more money and use it to give themselves more time there's a much larger payback then when they use it for other reasons. So for example let's say you have a bunch more money you're like you know I want to get this crazy stereo system for the house and whatever or you know what I'm going to do I'm going to hire a gardener so that now I have an extra hour every day to do other things. They find that opening up time for yourself gives you much more payback in terms of value than like buying things anything is growth so like okay I'll do this to learn the skill. Or to grow something you know my my awareness or whatever you're into they also see that that you know gives you. Well I really think one of them is for others and one of them is for you right the the tangible things sure gives you momentarily pleasure but it's really to show everybody else look at my nice car. True. Look at this nice things that I can afford when we're out it's really not making your life that much better versus doing something that frees up like having a house cleaner that okay if I clean the house on average. Two to three hours a week every week having somebody who now takes it off my plate I now have three hours that I could you know allocate towards spending time with my wife or my child or my fitness or reading or improving or traveling doing something like. I think that's the that's the key to that is focusing on those things. Can you guys think back at some of the best things you've ever spent money on do you guys have any. We already did the house cleaner one so I remember when I was. Isn't that funny. Did you go through a guilt process with that. No I didn't go through I didn't go through a guilt process because I'm the numbers math guy right for sure so right away. Let me guess you did this you did it while the housekeepers working I can make this much more money. So it was it was it was really it was easy for me to defend when people thought you know oh my God you're being lazy or like you like so I had a condo that was 1700 square feet my first house I bought so not a lot to clean right. But I had a house cleaner I had a house cleaner as almost as soon as I had a house I made sure that I could afford to do that which back then I think it was like I think I paid 250 bucks. A month and I had a cleaner in there three times three times a month I think to come clean my place and people thought that was absurd. But I knew how much money I made per hour training clients and back then I was a fitness manager so I could you know factor in my time and say OK well my time is worth X amount of dollars. I I could either one and what we have we had the luxury to having a job which not everybody has this right like back when we were trainers. If I literally wanted to make more money I could work an extra day that we can train for clients like I had that flexibility and I could also say I don't want to so I I could dictate you know for more hours of training clients which would result in you know few hundred more dollars at least well that one day of me training a couple more clients would cover the cost of me having a house cleaner all month and and and I love doing that like I love training clients I love I love making money in my in my job. So why wouldn't I want to go spend a couple more hours in that I did not love doing dishes and doing cleaning toilets and bathtubs I did not have any enjoyment doing that. So it was really easy for me to to justify that now later on I I found ways to really understand it on a whole deeper level with like and that's I think the having a wife and kid and seeing us you know this now I have this time that I can spend with Katrina or Max and now it's extremely valuable to Yeah totally yeah same for me was the time thing or investing in you know that time and hanging out with people that tend to make me grow like I love hanging out with you guys because that that happens a lot for me to just through hanging out with you guys. And then travel was a big one that I didn't really understand till I actually tell I met Jessica she's a big travel person. And when we started dating we would do these trips and I get so much value out of them like I didn't have anything I can hold besides pictures like I took this thing that I paid for. But when I think about them they bring me so much more value than anything else that I spent money on that's equivalent you know cost or whatever. Yeah I was very similar to that in terms of experiences and like spending money to make sure the family dynamic like we were all like doing something together like a memorable thing like whether it was even hiking somewhere exotic or we're you know in a different location I'm really you know big into nature and so like to to make sure like I was spending money in that direction to make sure we all had you know good connection with each other like lots of good conversations came out of that as well. You know I'm still working on like some of the stuff in terms of letting things go house wise and I have like hired people to help me now it's been game changing in terms of now freeing myself up to just focus on what's going on in the kids lives and then taking Courtney out to that was another big thing was like scheduling dates that I just started doing that. Yeah I'll spend money on and and and I probably do it more now than ever before because otherwise if I'm not intentional about that I don't have those kind of meaningful interactions. If I don't schedule it out it's just the nature of where we're at. Yeah if people I saw this with clients as I got better as a trainer you know I would I'd have clients that would be me for 10 years and they wouldn't I mean I wasn't cheap so they're investing some of them. Some of them I would train couples not together either separately and then they bring me their kids. So these people are investing thousands of dollars a month on exercise and they would always tell me how they work their budget to fit this in because of the value. They would get back from the money they invested in terms of how they felt and lack of pain and you know this is such a relieves my stress and I think if people understood that. Really because I had this comment I was on a podcast the other day and we were talking about how we can really convince people or communicate to people. The real value of fitness and health and I told the story of I told you guys before I was at this Christmas dinner it was my ex wife's company so it was like a tech company so there was no fitness people at the table. And we're all introducing ourselves and of course when they know I'm a trainer same it's always happens you're a fitness person you're with a bunch of non fitness people as soon as the food comes out everybody's apologizing. Oh hey I'm gonna eat some of this bread okay they make jokes about it right it's like I'm used to it. I remember this lady had a few couple a few drinks of alcohol or a few glasses of wine. And she goes you know I used to have a friend who worked out all the time and ate right did everything right and then she died of breast cancer when she was you know 50 something years old so. I'm just gonna enjoy my life and I remember thinking man people really have it wrong. You know and I don't think the fitness industry has helped by the way I think it's actually contributed to this problem. But people the average person thinks that working out and eating in a way that makes you healthy. It's like a chore is not enjoying your life it actually takes away from your quality of life which is exactly the opposite of what it does. I remember sitting there going man we got to really do a better job of communicating this to people because if people think not being healthy is enjoying their life. We have done a shitty job of communicating what what health and fitness does and so and that's you I mean if people really knew you would not have planet fitness gyms charging $9 a month. And nobody shines you know signing up the same people spending $200 a month on their cell phone bills how speaking of them how are they doing if you guys look to see are they crushing right now. They're getting up there with like one of the most valuable chains right now aren't they. They really tapped into that model where you pay and this is what it is and they tapped into human psychology. Look that up Doug most most profitable fitness chains I want to see I want to see where they're up there man and it's like they've tapped into the psychology where it's like okay. Oh I'm motivated I need to work out or oh my god I'm fat I need to do something then they go and they sign up and it's and the free pizza by the way works into this psychology because they think I'm paying $10 a month. I'm going at least I get free pizza that covers the cost or you know what it's so cheap why would I cancel. Which is really the evaluation of it at the end it's like I haven't really used it but you know I might use it and it's just at that price point where it'll just oh you know what just in case I'll keep it. Do you know how many wow anytime fitness is number one. Well now this is for franchises but I think in total there's like their planet fitness is number three. No I know but it says their best franchises to buy. So I think they're calculating it from that perspective risk and I didn't even know that planet fitness was a franchise. It does it does franchise some of their gyms obviously I didn't know I didn't know that I thought it was all privately owned. Is that basically what it's saying Doug it's not talking about how profitable the company is itself. No what I'm seeing here is how much it costs for the franchise fee and then how much it costs actually get started and then probably how much they had make on average or whatever. Number two. There are royalty fees of 7% of total gross monthly. Wow. Yeah that's a lot. Total gross. That's a hefty joke. An opening one can cost over four million dollars. Wow four million. Yeah. Holy shit. You know I had I just had a conversation with a family friend who wanted to open a brick and mortar fitness facility and it sounded like they were asking my advice. Or if they were asking my advice or if they were trying to see if I'd want to invest or something like that. And I had this whole conversation I said that brick and mortar business is tough man. So you're going to a lot of capital a lot of risk and you're limited with how you can scale because you have one location. You got to do another one. You got to do a lot of capital. It's a I mean kudos to people who run very profitable brick and mortar fitness spaces because that's it. I think you're okay so long as you you go in with the right expectations right so I always when someone tells me they're going to. I always ask what are what are they seeking. Like what what what drives you to want to do that. And if you say things to me like I've always just wanted to have my own gym that I come into and work out and my family and something close and I dictate my hours and it just gives me so much joy. Like if I'm hearing stuff like that I'm cool like or if they all think of it as a great business move to make money. It's that's a terrible reason to get into it. And the truth is most likely you won't most likely you'll make less money than you're probably making right now working for somebody else at a gym. Then you will having your own place. But if that doesn't matter to you say you've got the income that you know you already made the money you want to make or you have the things that you want to have. And so you don't have ambitions to make more than sure go do it. It's a passion and value driven business. And if you don't have a deep passion for fitness and you open a new gym. You're going to tank because you need to have that passion has to carry you through the first six months when you're in the red. And when you're out there trying to drum up business and do the whole thing and work in 12 hours a day. Not going to happen. So on the previous podcast I brought up the whole six finger digit. Oh that you call it. Yeah. So somebody actually sent me an article. I guess there's there's a player a defensive player linebacker for Kentucky who has six fingers in one hand. And it's like fully you can get fully articulated and use it. And he says it is a bit of an advantage even to have JJ Weaver. I think is his name. But I had never actually seen that in sports. Somebody had like six fingers because I keep thinking about that. I think the biggest advantage would probably be in basketball. Wouldn't you think? Remember we speculate on this. I thought rock climbing would be one. Oh yeah. Rock climbing. I'm sure that makes sense. I would think arm wrestling because you have leverage extra one to last bit. Just yeah. Just hooking in. So my question is if it's our if it articulates and everything. Are they stronger. I wonder if there's any studies on like a general grip strength or. I would imagine so because of the surface area and just the added bit of muscle. Musculature that they could organize together. You know in their in their hand. You have one extra. And here's another question. What muscle flexes and extends that digit. Is it is it the same muscle. So in other words is a tendon connected to. Right. The same muscle that operates the pinky. Does it have its own. Yeah. I'd like to see the anatomy of it. I'm not too certain. But it looks natural too. It trips me out. I know you when you show the examples before you have to like really look you have to count to go like oh wow shit that's there's six on there. Because at first glance you can't you can't really tell. Yeah. Oh man. It slapped in the face with one. You know you just wrote you just reminded me I watched last night. Have you guys seen this just popped up. I think it's pretty new on Netflix. The Alpinist the Alpinist A L P N I S. So it's the same glimpse of that. It's the same people who did Don Wall. Right. And it's like Alpine. Yeah. But it's Alpinist is actually like a term. So yeah. So they climb like like ice structures and glaciers. Yeah. Like yeah. So that's some of the crazed ones. So there's there's a when when Tim Ferriss interviewed what's the guy's name that did Free Solo. I keep there it is right there. Alex. Yeah. Hanuman. I forget his last name. Right. So Alex was on on Tim Ferriss like years ago. So you can watch this now. Yeah. You can watch this. You can watch it now. It was really good. It was really good. And on Tim Ferriss's show Alex he asked him he says well who do you who are you watching who do you think is because he's considered like the best out there for as far as like solo climbing. Yeah. And he drops this kid's names kids 23 years old and the stuff that he's scaling and doing is insane. And this whole thing they follow him for two years. I don't want to ruin the show because there's a lot that happens in it but it's definitely have you guys ever thought of there's just two climbers. They're like ice climbers and they're climbing a glacier. So it's a massive glacier and they're scaling one of the walls and there's like a boat that's filming them and then the glacier starts to tip. Oh my God. And one guy climbs around and the other guy kind of gets trapped and it fucking flips in the ocean. Have you guys seen that he was apparently fly with it. He survived. Yeah. He survived everything was cool but terrifying terrifying to see because glaciers at some point I've read that they'll do that. They'll flip or tip and you ain't stopping that thing. This is that you know thousands of tons. So what's crazy about this kid is he goes after like case. I guess there's. So you watch the whole thing. Yeah. Watch the whole thing and I don't want to share too much. I'll give you little things that's so impressive about what he does is like there's like ice climbing then there's rock climbing and there's like like different categories and he's chosen like some of the most difficult mountains in the world that combine all three. So he's got to climb up the mountain with his different his different gear that he's got to switch on the side of the mountain. So you're like spikes. Yeah. He's got spikes for his ice shoes but you don't want to be carrying all these handles and spikes while you're trying to do rock. So you got to switch the shoes out and just cry gnarly because it's hard. Don't pull up this video. He broke all kinds of records. This is this is what I've seen another one but this one's pretty cool too. Look at this. So this is an iceberg that flips on the people climbing it. Oh OK. So it's short. It's not like I thought I was picturing like it's a big ass. It's still a big ass glacier right or ice cube in the ocean. So I mean this thing is going to be thousands of I'm sure I don't know thousands of pounds at least if not more. Maybe you can fast forward a little bit. This is the one though right here. This is one. Yeah this is one. I saw this one too. So these guys float up to it right with their boat and they climb up on it and the guy you know that their buddy on the boat kind of floats away and then yeah he's like see there this yeah iceberg or whatever decides to flip dude it's so just like the whole thing starts to turn. Yeah dude watch. It's terrifying bro. If I was this big but it's not that it's like a massive boulder size basically on the top. Well I mean it's huge. Now I wonder below how far they were scaling down right now that they already go to the top. Is that why is he going away. I have no idea. This is the one. Oh look look look look. Oh shit. They both eat it. Oh shit. Look at that dude. Oh my god. Look at him fucking drops the camera. Oh shit. Yeah no thanks dude. Wow. No thanks. You have you know they all have that same thing in common though with the like the what it's it's the connection of the frontal lobe or whatever whatever they don't feel. Yeah they need to do that like this kid had like like severe ADHD and the only times dopamine. The only thing that makes him feel normal is you know hanging off the side of this fucking extreme adrenaline driven activity. Yeah but it's not extreme for adrenaline for them. They're like they talk about this like it's normal. Yeah like it's so calm and relaxing for them. Well remember when Alex the guy Alex got to the top so he finally freesoloed that. He's like yay. Yeah I did that. Yeah he was like you know what else it reminds me of did you guys ever watch the fight with Fedor Fedor Emilienko against I think it was Randleman whatever his first name was Randleman and Randleman this was pride and Randleman gets behind him and I swore to God suplex like jumps in a suit so Randleman was this big roided out wrestler jumps with a suplex and lands on Fedor's head upside and you're like he's dead there's no way he survived that. Oh my god. And Fedor turns him around and then arm locks him and wins and then he stands up and like typical Russian fighter you know fashion he's like puts his hand up like bro I'd be doing backflips if I did that and I'd be jumping out of the ring you know high five in my mom. It would be so interesting to see like brain scans on all those like athletes like that with that exact example like if it there it's like it's a neurological thing that causes that right it's not like their character like it's more that the way their brain fires and operates is they don't get the same adrenaline rushed as you or I would from something as simple as well they think is you know it's funny. Evolutionary biologists talk about like these extreme behaviors like what's the benefit like why would people why would there be humans and it's usually males males typically are the ones that typically fall in this category that will do what most of us would consider crazy. Presses the potential of us humans. Well there's two there's two parts of it one the reason why it's usually males is because we're expendable so like a civilization if it loses a good percentage of its females they're screwed because you know a woman can only have one baby theoretically every nine months whereas one man can impregnate a whole bunch of women in nine months so men are expendable challenge me yeah so so nature basically is taking experiments on man and then also it's a good idea to throw out the occasional dude that's going to go you know don't go over that mountain over there this freaking saber-truth lion somebody has to go check it out Steve will do it and he comes back everybody knows it's pretty speaking of human behavior did you guys I read an article with Elon Musk talking about immortality really interesting he says that it's a bad idea for humans to live forever because we tend to get set in our ways in our thought processes and we need a younger generation to come through to always challenge disrupt it disrupt the young lion to kind of kill you yeah it made me think like like what other issues you guys could you guys see with immortality because I think it would pose like the biggest psychological stress on us well be hard thing of a purpose to like we have a window right so you you have the like when you have a purpose you're like I want to leave this but part of my purpose is I want to leave this legacy behind or I want to make this impact while I'm here but if you're always going to be here there's less of that drive for purpose like I'll get to it I'll get to it the next 300 years you think apathy would be a big part of that right I've seen been here done that you know and then that's the thing too is you get older you realize things are so cyclical and you see all these things start to emerge and repeat itself I think that would drive you crazy after a while it's like the vampires in movies you know yeah I just bored oh dude I live in my castle I wish you would have watched so what we do in the shadows ahead of like a new season dealt with this subject itself it's so one of the vampires was just like you know at that point where you'd live so many centuries that he started doing like yoga and he started like trying to get all like spiritual because he hadn't done that before and it turned out that this was like a cult that was basically trying to turn him into a human and then the the leader was like eating everybody anyway it was hilarious what a great great premise great writing in that show yeah speaking of like skin that never gets older Adam I want you because this crack me up these are of the tech kind of sex you don't ever think you'd get from your buddies I want you to tell everybody because you read it to me I thought my buddy Shane sent over to you yeah so you remember just you remember Shane played for the New York Giants right being in here a year or two ago whatever yeah we worked him he shot some of our at-home mods with us yeah yeah so he reached out to me like I don't know like two or three weeks ago actually want to talk about real estate so he's done with the NFL and they're now like big time into real estate investing and so and he's got partners and he was really curious like you know how do we structure that and how does that all work and so we had a long old conversation about that and then before he hang we hung up he was just oh I wanted to ask you too about Caldera what do you what do you think about it during that and I said dude I absolutely love he's like no I listen every episode so I hear you talk about it he goes what exactly are you which one are you doing so I sent him the three that I am using right though I forget the names of all of them the serum the moisturizer to the moisturizer and when do you put the okay here's a question do you put the moisturizer on and then or is moisturizer at night serum in the day so I whatever what's the what the cleanser is in my shower so when I wash my face in the shower I use the cleanser when I get out of the shower I put the moisturizer on when I come to work I use the serum okay so I'm doing it right that's kind of the order that I have to be honest with you I don't even know if that was what I was supposed to do or not that just seems like it looks like it's the right way to do it I've been seeing your face look really nice so but anyways I he's like he told me he's like I have psoriasis too so here's me talk about my psoriasis and he goes has it really helped you and I'm like no absolutely that was what sold me on the company before we even started working with them so that was what just two weeks ago I got a text like two days ago and he just told me like bro I literally woke up with the the clearest skin I've ever had in my life yeah oh dude he's yeah it's I know like the most I know that's like two alpha dudes talking about their skin like I know that's when he told me I was like on the inside I was not laughing just giggling yeah I was like dude look what my buddy said don't you dare share this on the podcast yeah it's almost like is it working free cool bro hey my skin looks amazing thanks Adam for all of your advice I watched this little short documentary on skin on that it's on Netflix called examined I told you guys about yeah one on skin well you've been really going down the rabbit hole on that one oh boy some of them are good I'm gonna say this though some of them inject serious okay if I irritate you I don't care they inject wokeness for no reason so they'll be talking about a scientific topic and then for whatever reason they're going to throw in like little woke you know you forgot about us over there speaking of skin you know did you know that it's racist whatever I'm like come on dude learn about the skin like stop lecturing me on all this crap anyway when they talked about skin you know what they were showing how skin works and what causes acne and the oils that your skin produces really fill in the cracks and prevent things from getting below the layer the top layer of your skin which then can can cause inflammation infection constantly washing your skin with soap gets rid of those oils and literally opens up cracks yeah so that bacteria and shit gets in there and so okay so what do you got to do well if you wash your face you want to use an oil that is that is similar to the kind of oil in sebum or whatever that your skin produces so I think this one of the reasons why their oil is so damn good because it's all natural the pH they did a very good job of making sure the pH was kind of matched skin so when you put it on this is why I have oily skin Justin's got dry skin Adam has psoriasis we all use the same product and it helped all of us right it's not like it made me oilier and it worked for you or vice versa well it's funny because we'll go up to trekking it's really dry there you know and you guys are always like oh god I'm normal this is my environment you know I'm normal flaking everywhere the flakes falling off yeah sweeping behind him I don't know if Andrew but I got flakes oh who was the NFL player that went viral did you see that Justin his oh it was not NFL it was Kevin Durant look this up Doug you guys are laughing at it I did not see this we're talking about Kevin Durant dry ankle just that's all you got to Google I guarantee like a peeling skin so he normally wears like the you know the leggings underneath his basketball shorts he doesn't show his legs ever yeah and I guess there was a gap like I don't know maybe four to six inches between his sock and his leggings and someone zoomed in it took a picture and it like went viral everybody was talking about in the NBA of like yo bro you fucking fans are ruthless right see if you picture the right see if you zoom oh look it looks like sock bro bro it looks like a desert what the hell he looks like it's like a rhinoceros that this was just like elephants this season and I totally forgot about that that would have made it for a good caldera definitely needs a caldera bro right look how bad hell of bad right wow that's really just reminded me of that anyway Justin I got an article I think you'll absolutely love oh sweet I don't remember how I looked this up I looked up times that the government experimented on its own citizens and there was something said yeah okay because I just got this I saw a video recently that just surfaced with Bill Clinton like oh that's what it was yeah so he was he was addressing I don't know what happened like when this was in 1990s at some point right and he was talking about how people had been experimented on with injections of plutonium unbeknownst to them like it you know military people like regular citizens that the government had experimented on and he was basically kind of apologizing on behalf of the government so so here trip off this right so I knew about I'm going to go through some of these right the first one they talk about the Tuskegee syphilis experiment yes I'm by the way with that all the ones I'm going to say right now I have been acknowledged and many of them the government actually apologize for these are the ones not conspiracy this is just education that you need to absorb these are the ones we know of so like for example the Tuskegee syphilis study began in 1932 they took 600 african-american men and 400 had syphilis the rest didn't and they basically observed the people syphilis we had penicillin we had ways of treating them they gave them fake penicillin and just watched to see what the syphilis would do to their bodies right well though telling them that we're treating them oh terrible so terrible then there's a there was a a penitentiary malaria study so the u.s. government conducted the state bill penitentiary malaria study in the 1940s in Illinois it involved 400 prisoners who were illegally infected with malaria and subjected to studies the goal was to test experimental drugs to find a cure for the disease in addition the tests were administered and documented solely by the prisoners themselves so they basically were doing it themselves according to what they were told to do and this is again another experiment that that that we did then there's one that the Nate listen to this one the Navy sponsored beef blood transfusions so in 1942 the Navy had was the let's see the Navy had contacted con so con Edward con is a biochemist who was working at Harvard to engage in the secret project to discover a possible biological weapon his work involved injecting prisoners with cow blood to detect a protein that could be used in the event of an upcoming war oh my god yeah we're wrong there the 64 subjects who were injected with the cow blood all suffered catastrophic event effects including death then the plutonium testing this was in the 1940s they wanted to look at the effects of radiation and so they they gave patients doses of radioactive plutonium in the form of inject of of injections and a majority of them were already terminated ill so anyway let's just give them plutonium see and that but that's three there's 10 that I have this article will post it show notes of real studies the government did on people and we wonder why some people are hesitant to like it like have some questions at public policies and things that are concerning our health yeah it's just questions right like can we just talk about questions and be more transparent bring more data to the table these are just normal things I think people should discuss I think his if you're historically speaking your it's probably more wise to be like pause like wait let me see what's going on here because we know what the history is the motivators yeah and what's the money yeah and what's going on right now yeah all switches from conspiracy theories over to metaverse talks and so I'm going to bring something I think every episode I think it's intertwined yeah but it go for related this do you guys see the the whole thing with Quentin Tarantino getting sued by I think it's is it mere max or one of the one of the production companies that are suing him over the NFTs that he's making no okay so really interesting idea and I believe that there's going to be Star Wars ones Justin that will follow this so he took I think seven pages out of Pulp Fiction that never made it into the script and made NFTs out of it oh that's cool brilliant right and so the because but he's getting sued because they own the rights to Pulp Fiction but his case is that wasn't part of Pulp Fiction these are what never made it I sold you the script that you have that is and so I'm selling this individually I didn't even think about that copyright laws are copyright laws and patents going to cover so that in the future they're going to and they some of them do already depending on I forget the wording I was listening to this guy talk about it and like they are putting it in there that like anything related beyond created like there's there's verbiage now to cover their tracks so they own everything but you have some of these opportunities you think of like Star Wars there's lots of characters that never made it into the movies there's lots of spin-offs from the scripts and so they're talking about making NFTs around that I'd love to see what those pages had on you know what I watched the other day was Rocky 4 but with new foot it like footage that was never included Sylvester Stallone cut it's cool if you're a huge fan right so I love that kind of stuff right I'd love to see you know what was I'd love to see like is the the fan theory of Jar Jar Binks becoming a Sith Lord I'd love to see that I'd buy that was that is that true were you just making that up yeah it's a real theory because of you know you ever heard like drunken master yes so whatever yeah the kung fu movies where you have this sloppy drunken master who's just like you know is unassuming and they go to attack them and then he just does all these crazy like drunken moves but kicks their ass so it's sort of like along that vein of maybe he was the underestimated one that actually had like devious plot that they think that Lucas was going to bring him back to be like sort of the ultimate evil Sith Lord so he worked his way in acting like a dumb yeah you know a drunken master the drunken kung fu is a real if I'm not mistaken I've never heard of that you never seen drunken style kung fu well I mean so I'm sure I've seen like a clip they pretend like they drink from a like a like a bottle and then they use these circular kind of like weird movements that that emulate being drunk yeah and it's hard to predict that's I guess the fighting style yeah and it's sort of yeah it it it takes the opponent off guard because they think they have like this in the bag you know and and the whole thing is that this is basically a technique that they're using to almost disarm their I watched so many kung fu movies when I was a kid I was always always like oh it's dragon style versus you know oh I love did you did you do the voiceover dubs that was my favorite part there were I had no idea like Bruce Lee I feel like you probably were like a gi to school at one point to never actually war hold on a second I wore my Juno guys I gotta strike him like in fourth grade like rolling up in his gi and something like that to school I can't talk to his shit because I tried the crane kick on somebody one time like a real like really tried it like you like you were gonna fight him or you know like I was fucking around yeah yeah it'd be funny if someone was like in a street fight and really tried to pull it off and actually hit him didn't what's didn't Anderson Silva hit somebody in the face with the front kick I mean it wasn't a crane Randy Couture yeah he'd not popped him right in the face with that come on man or the front kick yeah he did a front kick that's the end part but it's basically yeah it looked like the same thing I'm not gonna lie I did wear my judo gi for Halloween haha I dressed up as the thing I wear when I go to judo I really wanted to wear it to schools I was trying to find a way out how I could do Halloween that's it I'll be me for Halloween hold on a second did you ever dress up as a football player alright then did you ever dress up like a basketball player I dressed my son up this last Halloween as a basketball player did you dress your son my son was probably the most nice to help you ever well but the member when we do that documentary or we played that rivalry football game after that that year Ethan dressed up as me in my uniform and everything I was like oh your heart must have exploded yes dude it was like the best oh that's phenomenal yeah that's phenomenal I gotta tell you guys so we're supposed to mention Paleo Valley and I gotta tell you guys their bone broth protein this is the for me digestibility is such a big deal I can drink this stuff all day long and it's like water yeah I can't do that with any other protein so I've literally bumped my protein by like 80 grams very easily yeah and I have no Courtney made a chicken soup with it yeah yeah actually I'm having that for lunch but yeah delicious well wait so she she used the base right it's bone broth yeah it's added to water heated up it's perfect yeah there's no here's a deal well that what Doug you should do that you just made you just made that chicken soup on the on the Instagram last time you did your day in the life right yeah you should do that next time that's a good idea I'm gonna try it out the if you look at the ingredients this is what it says ingredients bone broth that's it there's nothing but wait what a way to make your chicken soup like be actually because that's just that the soup's not normally that high protein I mean anytime we make homemade chicken soup we always put more chicken in it so it's actually somewhat of a protein meal but yeah you do that with the bone broth and now you got yourself like a now the broth doesn't taste I mean the powder doesn't taste like chicken though it tastes like bone broth if you add it to water heat it up does it well yeah imagine if you just mix it in with the chicken broth I bet you wouldn't even notice it's even in there probably would blend really well it can add such a mild taste to it this is what so when Jessica makes baby food for the baby when she adds like water or whatever it's bone broth I tell you this kid man she's we're just trying to build a super it's a good time yeah hey real quick you got to check out one of our partners zbiotics they makes genetically modified probiotic drinks that are patented that are designed to help you with the negative effects of alcohol so here's how it works you drink zbiotics then you go hang out with your friends enjoy your alcohol and the next day you feel way better ladies and gentlemen and everyone else this product really works go check them out head over to zbiotics.com that's Z-B-I-O-T-I-C-S .com forward slash mind pump and then use the code mind pump 10 that's mind pump one zero for 10% off your purchase alright here comes the rest of the show our first caller is Vanessa from Illinois hey what's up Vanessa how can we help you hi first of all I wanted to say hello to everybody and thank you for having me on I love your podcast thank you hello hello my question is but first before I want to give some context I'm 27 years old I'm a female I'm five foot one and I weigh about 112 pounds so I've been working out consistently for years and I've tried it all but I really love strength training the most and not until last year did I really learn about nutrition and how to calculate my macros to reach my goals this helped me lose those stubborn pounds dramatically and I actually went from a consistent 118 pounds to a consistent 112 111 and I really feel like I look and I feel stronger and leaner so I started out by finding my maintenance which was about 1500 calories and then went into a deficit to 1500 calories which resulted in that weight loss and from this past August until about the end of October early November I have been at a maintenance of 1800 but now I really want to focus on adding more muscle so I've been slowly creeping into a surplus since the beginning of November so about every week I add about 50 or so calories so I'm currently close to 2100 calories and I have been feeling so stuffed from this so I really want to add muscle and I know that the only way by listening to your podcast is to be in that surplus but my question is, is it really good to eat that much if I'm feeling stuffed just to hit my macros and my calories or should I just eat until I'm satisfied and not hit them Great question Vanessa okay so you're feeling stronger, you got leaner you're not feeling very good by trying to force food into your mouth what do you think my answer is going to be? Don't force it Yeah that's 100% This is a really good topic because at least for me I think my advice has changed over years with somebody like this I think in the past I would have probably told you like hey if you want to build that muscle you want to grow we got to do this eat more we got to keep pushing we got to keep pushing where now I probably would make you reflect a little bit more on your goals and probably have a little more compassion on where you probably already are and how good you're already doing and also one day your missing calorie goals is not going to set us back at all so I like this question because I know that my advice has changed in the years Actually and I want to say this you're doing phenomenal you're really doing phenomenal to be in this place this is a good place to be because maintaining a lean body for you now is going to be relatively easy in the sense that you're not starving that's really hard right when you're really hungry and you're like oh my gosh I can't eat anymore because I'm so hungry but if I do you're in the opposite position like I can't eat anymore but I want to gain more muscle so here's my advice my advice is going to be to manage that feeling so that you can put yourself in a position to gain more muscle because you want to gain more muscle so there's a couple a couple things I want you to focus on one is I want you to identify the foods that make you feel the most stuffed the ones that are the hardest to eat the most challenging to eat maybe identify foods that might cause a little bit of blow or digestive issues start replacing those foods with foods that are really easy to digest and foods that make you feel like you want to eat more so choose foods that might be a little bit more palatable easier to digest that'll help and then here's the second part you've been doing this since early November you're already about a month and a half into this kind of climbing the calories up and surplus deal you should throw in maybe a week of maintenance or slight deficit I love that idea or even just a two day low calorie if you're feeling like you're having to stuff and you're having a hard time hitting the 2000 plus calories nothing says you can't have two days in a row of hey I'm going to run two 1500 calorie days and then watch what happens on day three how you feel and interrupting that bulk and this is why we promote the many cuts and many bulks where you don't really run in a calorie surplus longer than two to four weeks total before you go back the other direction and you can either interrupt it with a week long cut like Sal saying or even just a two day in a row of low calorie and watch how you feel by day three you're going to probably want to eat those 2000 plus calories one more thing Vanessa one of the best signs of an effective strength training workout now it's not this isn't foolproof but it is a great sign typically is that somebody's appetite will increase so that that oftentimes that often done that always of course because appetite can be connected to so many different things including cravings and emotions but oftentimes having a general increase in appetite means body's trying to fuel some muscle growth right so my next question is going to be what kind of workout are you doing because your workout might not be sending the most effective muscle building signal or maybe you need to change the workout are you following a maps program like what does your workout look like I'm not following maps I'm actually have you ever heard of Sydney Cummings yeah I do on YouTube yeah so I'm following her and she's like really helped me learn about nutrition and like proper form which is so I've been with her for about a year sticking to her workouts okay and doing those about like five to six days a week what do those look like we're in a group and we're doing five to six days of working out we have we have some stuff we could change break break that down for the audience yeah sure so Sydney Cummings she posts some workouts on YouTube every day and the workouts range from 30 to 60 minutes she'll do a lot of strength training but when she does she times for example you'll do one move for 45 seconds at a time and now this is because she has to like do it for a whole audience so it's not like me really sitting there focusing on myself and how many reps I could do I'm just kind of doing like for example deadlifts for 45 seconds at a time and she kind of keeps you going right now she has a program in the month of December where it's a combination of strength training and now she's including some more cardio so for example today I did 45 minute gluten legs and ramp so it was four minutes at a time two different exercises so for example we did the first round was goblet squat for 10 reps and then deadlift for 10 reps Vanessa I'm so glad yes you don't even have to go any further and we're going to be able to help you out if our goal is to build muscle right now and you're also struggling to eat more calories there's such an easy fix right here by changing your programming not trying to hate on anybody okay I'm familiar with these workouts and for what the goals are that you have actually for what most people's goals are and again not trying to hate anybody but these workouts suck they're not programmed well it's basically a body part specific hammer your body follow me along you'll get sore type of work out I don't even want to say suck with you Sal because here's the thing it's probably helped you out this far to get to where you're at and you've done well so I don't it really has so yeah so let's not say it's suck let's just say there's something way better for you now we can perfectly transition you over to something that's very much more strength focused and you know we'll provide that muscle building signal which will complement what you're doing nutritionally so I'm really glad Sal brought that up because it is you know this is the other big component to you know you trying to now move more towards building muscle watch what happens when you follow maps in a bulk we're going to send that over to you for free yeah it'll maps in a bulk will blow your mind because you've been working out for you know about a year I want you to do three foundational workouts a week because there's the option to do two or three so I want you to do three and then on the other days I want you to do three trigger sessions a day each one lasts about you know eight to ten minutes you you don't have to do those on the weekend so it's just Tuesday and Thursday essentially so Monday Wednesday Friday would be the foundational workouts Tuesday Thursday trigger sessions if you want you can do trigger sessions on Saturday and Sunday as well but it will blow your mind for what your goals are you just wait do it for three weeks and you're gonna be like holy cow this is completely different also watch what happens to your appetite because you're gonna send a much louder muscle building signal by following a program like this and your appetite will naturally start to reflect that and you'll just be able to easily eat the higher calorie watch what happens so you're actually in a beautiful position you've gotten great results following a routine like this that I think is inferior to what you're trying to do you've got great results from it you've you've built a great physique you want the next level you want to continue building muscle maps in a bulk is a much better protocol for what you're trying to do simply follow that and then watch what happens I'm excited for you Vanessa well I'm so excited wow this has helped me so much like I just like it changed my perspective on a lot of things which is what I was looking for so I really really appreciate all this help perfect well we'll send that over to you and then you know what else I want to do is I want you in our forum because I'm really interested to see how you feel about how your body starts to change and how I can't wait to report on it yeah yeah totally different yeah and selfishly I'd love to share I'd like to share your progress with the rest of the forum because I know what's going to happen if you've already feeling the way you are now just wait till you follow like really well programmed resistance training it's going to be night and day for you so yeah so we'll send that to you and we're going to send you free access to the forum I'd love for you to post in there introduce yourself tag the the you know the three of us and then let us know how everything's working absolutely wow thank you so much no problem Vanessa thanks for calling that thank you so much have a great day thank you oh my god so glad you asked that question yeah you know my we're all we're all hovering around just the nutrition portion of this she's doing well nutritionally I mean her whole strategy it was like you know you don't get that a lot so that was like wow you know that's that's great to hear you know I'll tell you what selfishly as a trainer and even now some of my favorite people to help and again this is selfish is when I see somebody who's progressing in spite of the fact that they're rolling right a program that isn't very good and I said oh my gosh yeah if you're making progress now yeah I can't even imagine what's going to happen when we actually put good program and these are the people that tend to blow they tend to blow the bell curve out right you start to see like crazy acceleration of progress is gonna do but they're also some of the hardest people to reach because they've had excess in spite of what they were doing that's why I wanted to point out to like okay I don't want to say suck because if you say that to somebody who arguably might be in the best shape of their life you'll turn them off and they'll be like well I got all this results and I don't know this I don't know this girl personally right so the YouTube star that she's following who may have gave unlocked some things for her that completely opened new doors and changed her life and who are we let's say she just found mine pump she's only listened to two or three episodes of ours but she's followed this girl's journey for the last two years who's completely helped her us telling her that that program sucks may turn her off to continuing on with what we want her to do which is a superior program guaranteed Doug pulled up what she's been following and for someone who's trying to build muscle it is literally the opposite of what I would want her training like she would not be training five to six days a week in AMRAP circuit based no rest periods forty five minutes straight of doing absolutely opposite of what she should be doing and if she just tweaks that the watch what happens with her appetite in her diet it'll all fall right into place by the way you know this this Doug was like this Doug was a client that came to me and was following YouTube stars now you have started the classes back in my day there was no I knew you were doing those booty pump classes on YouTube I have a nice butt right he was slinging them VHS tapes yeah we gotta post the picture no but he came and he was fit and doing okay in spite of the the bad workout to the second he followed good programming he went from thinking he was a hard gainer to hitting numbers and strength gains and muscle gains that you know he realized like oh wow I got some real genetic potential here so I think that's what's gonna happen to Vanessa our next color is Michelle from New Jersey hey Michelle how can we help you hey thank you all good thank you all so much for all of your content I love you guys I listen to you all the time so I just wanted to say thank you for everything that you do my question is more so for me as a newbie personal trainer I have been a personal trainer for about a year now but I actually have to take a pause on personal training because I am performing in a Broadway show in New York City right now but this is more so for my husband just learning your techniques and what your philosophy is so my husband is the complete opposite of me he is 6'3 he is 33 he weighs about 175 100 to 100 can't get up to 180 pounds very tall very lean skinny and he used to run a lot of Americans back in the day now we don't run any marathons anymore but he doesn't run any marathons we are strictly into strength training and building muscle so we got into weight lifting by listening or watching by reading Mike Mass use bigger leaner stronger and that's when I really got into weight lifting and becoming a personal trainer we had took a break from BLS and now we had just purchased he had just purchased MAPS anabolic and I am looking at that and kind of comparing the two and trying to see what your philosophy is based off of anabolic with versus BLS I know in BLS there's a lot of big compound movements 2 to 3 minute rest in between focusing on those major muscle groups but when I look at MAPS anabolic I feel like there's a lot of trigger sessions the first three weeks is focusing on more it seems as though for me more more endurance because it's less rest period hitting more muscle groups you're in the gym more five times a week and I am curious on what you all thought are on versus the two and trying to find a happy medium with my husband and also I'm learning at that same time and I also have a bodybuilding coach that I work with for potential to do a show by the end of this time next year and his theories of only training two times in a row no training back to back tempo training blah blah blah so I'm just trying to find a happy medium with my husband and he's like what should I do I am so confused I'll give you the short and the long here's the short have him follow MAPS anabolic it'll blow away pretty much any of the other programs especially for someone like him now here's some of the differences Mike Matthews very smart guy great friend of ours he follows the science very very well so he and this is what he does very well he looks at the studies he makes sense of the studies and then his workouts are based off of scientific research now MAPS programs all of also follow the scientific research however they are also written by three trainers who trained for over two decades and worked with lots of people so let's let me give you a comparison or a difference right with bigger leaner stronger and if we compare that to MAPS anabolic once you get past freeze pre phase with MAPS anabolic you're hitting the whole body three days a week with bigger leaner stronger it's more like two days a week it's a little bit more of a split in bigger leaner stronger less of a split more full body in MAPS anabolic why the difference well here's why if you train a body part two days versus three days a week but the volume is is the same and the intensity is roughly similar studies will show that the gains are going to be right around the same however what we understand as coaches and trainers is the more often you can practice certain lifts the better you get at them and the faster you get at them so in other words rather than doing let's say you know 20 sets for your legs twice a week where you're doing 10 sets on one workout and 10 sets on another workout what if we did 20 sets over three workouts even if the gains look similar in the studies we know through experience working out your legs practicing squats front squats lunges more frequently tends to produce better movement patterns you tend to get better at those movements faster and the strength gains and this is what the literature will support the strength gains tend to be superior because strength is skill just as much as it is bigger muscles as far as rest periods are concerned they compare when you look at studies that compare long rest periods to short rest periods head to head it's true that long rest periods build more muscle but here's where people mess up all the rest periods within reason still build muscle and your body will adapt to a particular rest period if you stick to it all the time meaning if you do something novel like go from three minutes to a minute and a half you start to get the ball rolling again so what you find with maps in a ball is this phasing of rest periods where it goes some of them are long like phase one and phase three the rest periods are much shorter and then lastly I'll touch on trigger sessions trigger sessions are not the same as workouts trigger sessions are literally like you know you're getting a little bit of a pump a few days a week on your off days it's not a workout it's active recovery yeah and it's not cardiovascular and it's maintaining the muscle building signal you sent the day before the day before is your hard workout but what happens is you send this loud muscle building signal with your hard workout and it peaks at about 24 to 48 hours we've studied this through what's called muscle protein synthesis and then it starts to decline very quickly if you do some trigger sessions which they're not like workouts you're not tearing muscle down you're not doing that but you're getting a bit of a pump what you do is you're keeping that muscle building signal up higher for longer this is why you'll notice that male carriers who don't go to the gym and do hard calf workouts all they do is walk a lot they still have muscular calves they're not doing any bodybuilding but you still see muscle being built in their calves or mechanics in their forearms they're not at the gym doing forearm workouts with barbells and dumbbells but for some reason they've got strong muscular forms trigger sessions still provide that value and so putting those on the off days turbo charges the rest of the workout and that's part that's really what makes MAPS Anabolic so special. There's also one more thing that you're missing that I think is one of the most valuable things and one of the things that attracted me to working with you guys when we first looked at MAPS Anabolic before Mind Pump even started is if I have 10 clients that are training with me for the next three months of those 10 clients maybe one or two of them never miss a week for the entire three months most of them life happens in a week they take off or they might have a bad week of training where they only get in the gym once or twice I know when I'm training them on a full body routine like MAPS Anabolic they're not going to have as much of a setback if they missed one or two days training because they're still hitting a full body workout this is the biggest flaw with body part splits not that they're not effective not that it doesn't follow the science is that it's missing the behavioral component which is where the experience comes in with the three of us who have trained thousands of people over the last two decades is I know behaviors and I know that it's inevitable including myself I'm going to have a week where I don't train as frequently and when I have a full body routine I hit every muscle group still even when I only trained one day that week and when you're talking about long term gains and maintaining a physique that person is better off that's why we know it's superior for most people doesn't does it mean that if somebody never misses a workout and they train splits for three four six months that they won't have similar results no if you don't ever miss a workout and you're consistent as hell then that's not bad but we also wrote programs considering people's behaviors yeah Michelle you said you're going to become a you're becoming a personal trainer I have my personal trainer certification I've been certified for a year through 8th okay and but I am on a Broadway show right now performing I do about 8 shows a week with that show doing the personal training and doing that at the same time is really difficult because I'm here all the time so if you really want to this is what I advise to you to really learn programming because you're not going to get all the information from MAPS and Ebola MAPS and Ebola is a piece of the bigger picture in fact what we recommend to people often is they follow our MAPS programs kind of one after another so you know MAPS and Ebola for a few months then you can go to MAPS performance and then MAPS aesthetic and then maybe MAPS strong training these different modalities different phases different exercises really develops a well rounded strong functional body in long term you get great results so I recommend you do that kind of look at all of our programs you can got to get a better idea you're not going to get all the answers from MAPS and Ebola and then here's the other thing the most valuable program that we have for you as a trainer is MAPS prime and prime pro by far none of our programs are going to benefit you as a coach training other people like those two programs by far I mean you take those two programs you apply some of the principles to your clients you'll blow away 99% of the trainers that are out there I'm telling you right now so it's not you'll learn from MAPS and Ebola those programs but it's prime and prime pro so if you don't have those I'm going to send those to you because I really want you we really value trainers and coaches and I think that's something that you'll gain value from and then as far as your husband is concerned go MAPS and Ebola three foundational workouts a week trigger sessions on the off days of course make sure he feeds his body and then watch what happens watch the strength of muscle gains I think you'll be pleasantly surprised definitely he sees my muscle gains and he's like why don't I get games like that I'm like well you don't even have protein you don't eat enough you don't eat enough of me and I'm like you're going to eat completely way more I'm like five three you're five you're six two like what do you think so he never wants to eat anymore food I'm like you need to eat more boy well that's true though too right there Michelle if he's not getting enough calories and protein he could be following the best program in the world and he's not going to see a lot of muscle gains so make sure he stays on top of that if he's hitting his protein and taking his calories in the abs and a ball it will blow as much by the way what brought can I ask what Broadway show are you going to be a part of yeah I am in Tina Turner musical in New York City Oh that's great I've never been to a Broadway show that's like one of my dreams I love shows but I have only watched some in The Bay Area in Comparison I know we suck so Are you guys in San Jose right? I played San Jose with Aladdin the Musical Oh, no way 2019 I was there. Yeah, we were there for six weeks. Oh good deal. That's excellent So do you come to the West Coast very often how often you come out this way? Uh, I get out there probably once a year and perform shows Yep, depending on if I'm on tour right now. I'm in a standing steady show So the show is like just in New York City But sometimes I go on tour and we will do all the um whole north america Michelle we know how to take care of friends So next time you're out in this area if you hook us up with some tickets, maybe we'll hook you Now that I know you like theater that makes sense. So we we got it. I'll get y'all I'll get time to hook up 100 percent. Thank you. Michelle. We'll send you prime and prime pro Okay, because I as a as a trainer. I think those are gonna really really provide some tremendous value to you Awesome. Thank you so much. I really appreciate it all the insight and I definitely want to be a better trainer So this is really really helpful. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you for your problem Yeah, I think When you compile a routine based off of the studies, you're a lot of the way there, right? If you look at the scientific, that's why we this is why we like Mike so much This is what all of I mean, we didn't even know who Mike Matthews was When we first started mind pump and I forget who first introduced us to him But when we got introduced to him it was well Doug Doug knew him first showed me and then we were following Is that why you found him from like e-commerce stuff? Is that why you were marketing? I've been following him for quite a long time because Mike is actually a marketing background Who is kind of like a nerd like us when he gets interested in something he goes super. He's hyper intelligent Yeah, and so he went super deep on fitness And you know he read you could tell the guys read a ton of studies because the way he has built his programming But the the the one thing that I the one edge Okay, and I would tell Mike this to his face He's a friend of ours that I think that we have on him is that we actually trained in person people for Two decades thousand plus people between the three of us And there's one more component to the science component And that's the behavioral aspect of it And you just have if you're if your desired outcome as a trainer is to get your client the most results possible You exactly application and behaviors matters And you have to factor that component in and that's why we can't just purely follow the science Yes, the science should be the foundation But then we're not all in a Six month study, you know our six week study like that's not how people that's not how people interact in real 100% And not only that I'll take it a step further. There are no controlled One year two year three year long studies maybe observational where they ask questions and do surveys But nothing control when they compare rep ranges, for example, it's like 27, you know college aged males Showing up at a gym Training with with researchers for three months Like I trained people for two years three years five nine years 10 years So I see that long rest periods did do build more muscle. I also see that after four months They don't yeah, we got to move to the shorter rest periods. I I see that Yes, we could do a body part split and that's going to work just fine But guess what over the course of a year you're going to miss some workouts. Like you said Well, now we're missing whole body parts if we do full body I also see that when I practice if I get you to practice squats a few days a week It's better than if we practice it one day a week Even if the volume is exactly the same and the studies show that the results from that perspective are the same So when you when you add both of those together what you get is the is really really effective workout program That's the bottom line. Yeah, you know, you always miss the opportunity to shamelessly plug your book I feel like that would have been the direction to give for other than go I mean, yes, buying all the programs would be great for the business and all but I think that Your book does a really good job of explaining the philosophy behind Maps and I think that anybody who's curious because this is a question that we get quite a bit If you get if you're curious to the philosophy behind maps and why we program And why we write the programs the way we do then you have to you have to read resistance training revolution Our next caller is brian from california. Hey, what's up brian? How can we help you? How's it going guys? Um, I am a 40 year old strength and conditioning coach Football coach and a high school teacher and instead of asking a question for myself I figured I'd ask you guys a question regarding my program. Um currently I uh, I I'm an on the field coach, but I'm transitioning to the strength conditioning program and because the covid year and the community that I work in Our players don't have the best weightlifting background And so what I've tried to do is implement all the principles that you guys have incorporated throughout your guys programs And implemented into our strength and conditioning program and I submitted My workout plan to you guys and I wanted to see if you guys had any tweaks or suggestions On how we can actually improve or Things that you think might be able to be added to it Wait a second. You went you went 10 and 0 in the regular season Yes, we went 10 and 0 in the regular season We're looking at your question right now. Do you mind if I read off some of the stuff that you wrote just so the audience Yeah, knock it out. Okay. So, um, it says here that you're you're having the the boys go to the gym the weight room Excuse me three days a week They do one priming exercise per zone. So that's three three movements one for the upper Middle part of the body and then the lower body Um, then after that the boys go to the racks. There's 12 racks 12 platforms It's a nice school gym, by the way um, there's two kids per rack And two per platform and there's four exercises assigned. So essentially the whole workout besides the priming Is about four exercises and then halfway through they switch you go platform to rack and then vice versa And you're taking from maps and a balik maps performance And maps uh aesthetic. Yeah, I like I like where you're going. Yeah, is that is that pretty That's did I cover that pretty well? Yeah, you knocked out pretty well The only thing is there's actually eight exercises four in each location So they'll go four in the rack and then half the period and they'll switch to four on the platform Okay, I now I'd love to hear what Justin. This is his totally his wheelhouse and his expertise is Yeah, superior on this. So well, okay, so i'm trying to kind of rack my brain around What were your difficulties with your kids? Because I know for me the biggest difficulty was establishing proper forms and mechanics because they just I just felt like they didn't have any kind of There wasn't a whole lot of education provided previous to that in terms of You know a back loaded squat Deadlifts, you know bench press and so for me I was scrambling to try and establish like proper form and and really reduce it down to you know the bare minimum In terms of what I had them focus on So With that in mind I I've actually been doing quite a bit of this and thinking about how to construct a good off-season program and training And one of the things and I love how you're bringing up the priming zones And you're addressing that before we even get into the workouts because I think that's essential and a lot of coaches You know just kind of breeze over a lot of like the actual Quality of of their movements and their their capability of of providing that kind of stability and structure with their joints Um, and so for me I wanted to kind of maybe address it more from a unilateral perspective in the beginning and and make sure that you know I was addressing the imbalances, you know going through a phase of that and then kind of Picking that momentum up and then going back into bilateral type of uh of lifts like you're you're describing here So, uh, I guess my question to you is how good do you feel that their mechanics are currently? Well, what are the eight exercises first of all because maybe he's maybe he's doing a bulgarian squad in there. What are you doing? So actually, um, I attached to you guys, but we it there's three phases into it So like what I've done is I planned out from January all the way through in season So what we're looking at is we're doing all the major lifts But depending on the phase we phase into some you know a lot of all stuff And some multi-planier stuff just because one of the things that I figured out with you guys and when I went through performance myself I noticed that I was really strong in one plane But I get into another plane and I would really struggle with that And so that incorporating the multi-planier stuff and the the priming stuff was one of the key things Our big issue was our boys weren't very mobile and we had built a pretty good strength base With our head coach, but our problem was you know, COVID and everything else has gone on the lockdowns A lot of our kids that are coming in haven't played or haven't worked out in quite a while And so that was one of the big things that we found before in in this season this year Yeah, no, that's good to know because I'm glad you guys were able to establish good strength I I felt like we did a terrible job of that and I kind of came in mid Uh mid-go in terms of our off-season training. And so my big focus is to eliminate a lot of the cardiovascular endurance type training and just focus on the strength and get as far as we can, you know, up leading into You know hell week in in a sense because that's one of those You know conditioning is sort of that button that that coaches always want to hit Because it's it's difficult. It's it provides that mental discipline and This is sort of what you know, a lot of coaches tend to throttle down on when What's going to provide longevity and performance on the field is the strength that we're going to be able to apply So, um, you know, so if you're if you don't mind, I'll kind of break down what I'm basically going to be doing with with this team And see if it applies to your guys, but we're going to be focusing primarily on Unilateral training. We're going to build that into like a five by five type of uh situation When we're working on, you know, five to seven core lifts and we're going to master those lifts We're going to kind of transition from that into more of a maps and a balik where we're just focusing on You know building up that muscle in size And add in a bit of hypertrophy And you know, and I'm going to kind of drag that then into transition to more of a maps performance where we're going to get You know, uh into actually That multiplaner type of of movement and strength And then, you know, I'm going to string that out, you know All the way up until then the very last peak is we're going to be in our conditioning phase and we're going to be doing You know more speed power And skill training in conjunction with that. So Um, one of the things that I want to make sure that I establish is is the the skill on the field And so less on the conditioning more on the quality of the movement. So explosive movement, uh, you know running their passing trees You know, like having like each group So whether you're linemen, you have, you know, very specific drills that you're running on the field Like say on our if maps anabolic is our example, we're going to be doing that during our trigger session type days So, you know, they're going to be on the field just working and drilling their skill And then also applying the the rubber band workouts full body workouts to to then help to Um, you know establish that recovery active recovery And then we're going to jump back into our foundational type lifts So, um, I'm sort of like pairing those together and then using our program as the baseline But then implementing and so one other thing to to kind of, you know, sum this up as well Deadlifting for me. I find I find valuable Um, I find a lot of value in a trap bar deadlifts with this particular group because it's it's less Uh, technical and it's less cues. I have to make sure I establish ahead of time But also, you know, the kids can just pick it up and really like build upon that that foundational strength And it's it's it's something like that risk versus reward thing I'm always playing with that to see which one has the most value And so like even power cleans is something I'm sort of Subbing out for things like heavy kettlebell swings Uh, and and also like trap bar Uh, a type of uh cleans So, uh, just just things to consider in terms of like what where your athletes are at Uh, with their education their background their skill, uh, and then what you can establish in that window Leading back into the season. So, Justin, I want to I want to back you up to when you talked about So let's look at this as like a at least a rough time frame. What are you talking about when you said unilateral training? Are you doing that for a couple weeks leading into maps and are you doing that for three months? Like how long are you focusing on unilateral before you move them into maps anabolic and then into performance and How much of a time window does he need? Yeah, it's about a month a month and a half We're we're focusing on unilateral training and then leading into the five by five Which we're going to run then for the next like, you know, two months Leading into the maps anabolic, which would then we're going to establish that and go through that entire progression Which then leads into Maps performance and so I might actually repeat, you know One or two phases of say maps anabolic or maps performance depending on You know the timing of that leading into the end of the off season Uh, so that's what I'm kind of constructing and drawing up So essentially at least a month of unilateral type at least a month and and two this is good because after season You know the players are beat up and If we just jump right into to strength training and we're building upon Um, you know some of these these functions and we're not addressing them specifically You know, that's something that is gonna You know, we're going to lead into bad patterns that we're going to deal with later on So I want I want to really like hyper focus on those and it's not as cool and sexy to to to get into that because the kids Really want to just build muscle. Yeah, and one thing I want to comment on brian is especially when you're working with, um, you know, high school kids Form is everything. So they may want to push themselves add more weight. You see a slight breakdown in form. No Go lighter. I want your form to be perfect because The strength that they're that they're going to build with good technique and good firing patterns is going to translate more To the field than even more strength games with crappy form, right? So Focus on the form at all times. That's got to be the number because it's very easy for it to get away from you Especially when you're dealing with high school kids And there's a bunch of guys in the gym and they want to push and they want to lift harder And they oh my god, I can add 10 pounds if I if I just you know tweak my form a little bit Like you got to be really really strict with the form because that's going to give them such bigger dividends than just pushing the weight I mean, I I just want to comment that I think you're you're doing a hell of a job I think what you built is a is a pretty pretty goddamn good foundation I think the only thing that I would contribute is the two things that I heard Justin say that's that sounds different than what you're doing is Probably starting the beginning of their weight training with unilateral stuff. So, you know, you pick your four to eight, you know Biggest bang for the buck type of unilateral movements to start this with and then incorporating some of the like On-field type of movements like, you know running their routes and stuff that that explosive training in there other than that I really like The direction that you're going maybe just put a little bit of focus on unilateral to start it off And I think what you're doing is a great job Brian is it okay if you let us know what high school this is because I mean 10 and oh, that's pretty phenomenal Yeah, I teach at boldenburg high school in southern california. Oh good deal. All right. Shout out to those to you guys out there Do you have so you have access to maps prime anabolic? Performance aesthetic. Are you in our forum? Yeah, I have pretty much everything you guys done. I've been listening since episode 25 Oh, awesome. Good deal. Okay. Hey, please. That's why this programming looks so goddamn Yeah, well, we got a new one coming now. I'm not going to completely give it away But that's something that I you'll be able to use I do want you to use because I'm going to be using it with my athletes as well And we'll keep you informed with that Well, why don't you why don't you why don't we do something special for him? Brian, why don't you email Justin personally and maybe he can give you a peek at that before anybody else gets to see There you go. You'll be my beta tester. How about that? You got to be promised not to share it with anybody. Okay I'm all for it. I won't share it and just so just a touch on the unilateral on the on the field stuff I'm actually using the performance mobility days beautiful The two days that we're not lifting to start in january and actually since the beginning of november We've been going over technique and form with pbc pipe just because I know any breakdown informed A new year smart guy. Yeah, dude. You're you're on the right path. Yeah, brian. That's been I love hearing this from a Strength and conditioning coach for a high school. That's phenomenal All right. Appreciate it guys. You guys have Drastically improved my life as well as the people around me and now I'm hoping to impart that to my players and my students Yeah, thank you. Thank you so much brian send a send an email over to jerry who who organizes these questions for us And just let her know that uh, justin was going to follow up with you Uh regarding the new program and I'd love to share notes with you as well, man. You're doing great things. So For sure. I really appreciate it guys. All right, brother. Thank you That's uh, you know, that's great. I love yeah, well I don't know. I you know high school strength coaches or high school coaches in general Sometimes I think get a bad rap and I understand why Um, I've seen some of the workouts and the programming. I love hearing this though This is excellent. These kids are getting introduced in their defense Most uh, all or not all but most unless you're going to some private high school that's got the money Are Volunteer dads there and they fall back on what they did. That's right back in the 80s. Yeah It's changed a lot. So yeah, it's where you get a guy like this who's actually probably pretty damn qualified To be helping these or get a Justin who's out there on the field. You're not getting like that kind of a background It's just so it's tough for high school And and you know what you're you're laying the foundation for these kids So you could argue that it's probably one of the most important time for them to get really good Uh, good advice from a coach or a trainer. So I think he's I think for the most part And then after hearing what he just said right now I mean he's really addressing the main concern of the unilateral was you know, you're coming off this off season You're not doing any you're not doing anything of all these bad patterns. You have bad movements But I mean if he's incorporating stuff from performance on mobility today He's working with pvc pipes to get technique down. He's peering into he's looking into all the dysfunction and addressing it Right away. So that that was my biggest concern and that's why you know, I mentioned that it was really because it's a way to Be able to see that You know with with a large group of kids pretty pretty visibly Yeah, and in the challenge was training Especially boys in this age group Their bodies all of a sudden have all this testosterone. They don't have years of wear and tear On their bodies that they recover very quickly The strength gains you make when you're 16 17 18 happen anyway Like you take a it's a 15 year old and have them do nothing and a year later. He's way stronger So you turbo charge that with resistance training and but the challenge is Is is making sure to to to direct it in the right place and have because I know like I said I've trained these kids And it's really easy even for an experienced trainer to be like, oh cool. We can add 10 pounds Oh, cool. You can do it. Wow. You hit a new pr and let the form go off by a couple degrees like that's the challenge The challenge is I got it's like it's like growing a plant that's growing real fast Let's make sure it grows straight Before we allow it to just go crazy because you're right. You're setting the foundation This is what what sets everything up in the future Our next caller is jennifer from massachusetts. Hey jennifer, how can we help you? Hey guys, I am really grateful for you taking the time for my call. I really appreciate it Um sal can I say one thing to you before we get started? Yeah, let's yeah, let me hear it Um, can you please tell jesca that I completely relate to her? I am celebrating 10 years of marriage to my hundred percent sicilian husband So um when we go to family functions, I've never had to kiss so many people Hello and goodbye Um in my entire life Half of the time I don't know people but we always have to say hello and goodbye to everyone Which takes just about as much time as the whole event. I think lots of noises is everybody's eating Wasn't it you and I just talking about the software like literally like two days ago Sal and I were talking about the software because Katrina's family is much like his family and it was like and I'm the opposite our our family Doesn't see each other at all. And so it took me years to get used to that Saying hi and goodbye and making sure I get every person at the party regardless if I know who they are or not Hey, but I tell you what man, if you need family, you got a lot of people there. This is true. They will they will die for it This is true. I I probably had a hundred percent shower ever. It's worth it. It's worth it. So congratulations. You married Hey, he's wonderful. He's uh doing the minecump programs as well. All right. So what's your question? How can we help you? So my question I was going to give you a little bit of backstory. Um, I always suffered with the scale Food issues, you know typical Female stuff, you know, I'd run around my backyard trying to burn 300 calories in a workout because I thought, you know, that was what I needed to do About a year ago. I found you guys which totally opened my eyes. Um, which thank you. Um, I just listened to I binged every episode I started researching doing a ton of work on myself and um, you guys really just taught me How food is great for your body how to fuel my body how to use the scale So right now I am in an awesome place. You guys helped me get there. Um, so I'm a 45 year old blessed Stay at home mom And I am just really happy where I'm at. I love my fitness routine I just started am a ball anabolic advanced at home Virgin, which thank you for making those programs available at home Um, I walk my dog three to four miles a day I do yoga a couple times here and there I make sure that I do 20 minutes of mobility and stretching a day I take my recovery really seriously. I track my sleep. Um, I'm just really I'm comfortable where I'm at my maintenance calories is 2,600 calories. I'm 58 139 pounds 23 body fat Um, and I just want to know like is it okay to stay here or do I have to go? Yes All of us over here are like shaking our head is like, where's the question? Where's the you're in a beautiful place right now? Okay, so and here's here's the beauty of where you're at Forget the fact that you're obviously lean. You're fit. You look amazing. You're you're consistent. You feel good Forget that for a second. Do you enjoy your workouts? I love them. I'm loving anabolic. So It took me a hot minute to get to switch over them to your um programs I was following a youtube trainer. Don't give me shit, please. Um, but I so I'm doing anabolic now I love it and for for a mom those three minute rest periods are phenomenal. Do you know what I can get done in those? They're awesome So, um, I'm feeling strong. I'm feeling great. I just didn't know do I ever do I have to go into a cut in a book sometimes to Um stimulate my metabolism like I know how to do it You guys have taught me like if I know if I went down to 20% body fat I'd see those See the abs that everybody wants. I did no six pack. Um, I'm done two cycles of that I've seen strength in my core I mean I my husband finds me sexy as hell probably more now than when I was 120 pounds. I'm 139 pounds right now That's the true measure right there. Yeah, you're you're you know, Jennifer Okay, this is such a this is such a good place to be because well I'll give you a quote that I say all the time The man who loves walking is going to walk much further than the man who is only walking to a destination So in other words, I've never heard you say you're enjoying. I've said that before We couldn't fucking say it all the time. I don't even always talk about it full of shit never said that Doug knows He knows he'll shake his head I say it on time Hey, listen, go ahead finish it. It was beautiful. It was beautiful. Here's the deal This this is this is how you know, you're gonna be consistent forever You enjoy what you're doing now as far as the bulk and the cut is concerned Don't worry about that. It'll have at some point. You're gonna be like, hey I want to get a little stronger. You're gonna have a vegas trip come up Hey, I feel like I want more stamina. Hey, I feel like I want more strength in the squad Or maybe I want more mobility and then you just follow that follow that feeling But you don't have to Have a goal this is one of the problems with having a goal There's there's positives and negatives to it But one of the negatives is people get so focused on the goal that when they finally get to the goal They're like now what what do I do now? Where do I go from here? So you're in this excellent amazing place. Just enjoy what you're doing This is like the this is where we try to get people to to get to so you're doing great Yeah, the only thing that I would ever probably change up with you is uh is the programming every once in a while So and it acts how we wrote them we wrote them with that intention follow anabolic for three months After you do that move into performance or strong or aesthetic or one of the other ones and you know So you're learning new movements and exercises you're hitting different planes So you're getting stronger with all those things and and you're constantly kind of changing it up So the body's not adapted it doesn't get so used to anabolic that you start to see diminishing returns But other than that where you're I mean 2600 calories is a great place to be for your size. That is a good metabolism So there's not and you're you're incorporating yoga. You're walking you're getting stronger You like the way you enjoy it. You're enjoying the process It's it literally is such a perfect place to be in and I'm with sal Something will naturally happen over the course of you know the year where You know, maybe you got something coming up where like I said vegas Maybe it's not vegas Maybe it's just something you're going to do and you want to be leaner So you run into a calorie deficit for a little while or maybe it's winter time And where you're enjoying some of the Thanksgiving foods and some of that So you naturally kind of go on a bulk a little bit But you're in a very beautiful place I think we we are striving to get most our clients to yeah Just just literally just keep enjoying what you're doing. This is perfect. Just embrace. Thank you. Yeah We have anabolic performance aesthetic. You got we have all of that stuff. I'm in your private forum We have the nose bs six pack So I have all those things that I can interchange throughout the year. So that's perfect We'll just give you a virtual high five then. Yeah, yeah, jeff. You're doing great This kind of question really makes me happy. So I'm happy you're. Oh, thank you And if I could just say one more thing to all of you guys and if I get emotional I'm sorry, but I just wanted to articulate to you guys um Something that I hope you guys realize when I had my daughter. I was terrified. I was going to pass down my body image issues My issues with food Even though I consciously tried not to do this. It was inevitable just at the place I was at As all of you have helped me change my mindset all of you help me get to a damn good place and that fear is now gone My daughter brings some home papers from home paper from school and she writes about herself and I see her right I am strong. I am kind my heart burst with happiness Nowhere is there the word skinny thin none of that. She makes me cards and says I want to be strong like my mama So from a person who values being a mother over anything else in this world I thank you from the bottom of my heart Yeah, god god bless. They are changing lives and are not saying and I'm not saying that to be corny It is genuine for me Please know you are truly making an impact on lives and you are you are all kind Compassionate souls and it comes through your podcast. So when you hear the name alexander regeri That's my daughter. You know that you had a tiny part in helping her make her the badass that she's going to be So, thank you. Thank you. God bless you. Thank you so much. I appreciate you guys. I appreciate you taking the time You're all just very kind people. So thank you. Thank you, jennifer. Thank you Have a great day guys. Happy holidays. You too. You too God doesn't take me a second. I know I had to like look away because if I was listening and focused on what we're gonna make eye contact with you guys I'm gonna cry You know, what a what a great place to be, you know, it takes a long time sometimes for people at this place But where they enjoy the process and they're like, you know, I don't need to have a specific goal I just love doing this and I feel good and yeah, and then the question arises Should I go back to what I was doing before which is kind of what she was asking, right? Is it okay to stay here? No, it's more than okay This is the best place to be and boy what she said at the end man Yeah, I mean we hope for this for most people to get to this point. It's it's I mean, that's what we do we try and get our clients to to Get to this place where you can navigate and you know what to do and apply things and you enjoy the process Enjoying the process is everything and the truth is it's it's it's not easy It's so there's a lot of work and a lot of the work is internal. It's not just x's and o's It's just not these are my macros. This is the best program. Follow it There's normally a lot of internal work that needs to be done and obviously she's done that journey and You know, it's so cool to see when someone's put the work in to see it pay off like this And she isn't an amazing place. So Jennifer, we love you. Thank you Look if you like our information, you gotta head over to mind pump free.com and check out our guides We have guides that can help you with almost any fitness goal The best part is they're free mind pump free.com. You can also find all of us on instagram Justin is at mind pump. Justin. I'm at mind pump. Sal and adam is at mind pump adam