 وَإِنْ تَعْجَبْ فَعْجَبٌ قَوْلُهُمْ أَيْذَا كُنَّا تُرَابَنْ أَيْنَا لَفِي خَلْقٍ جَدِيدَ أولئك الذين كفرو بربهم وأولئك الأغلال في عناقهم وأولئك أصحاب النال فيه يا خالد الحمد لله رب العالمين والصلاة والسلام على رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم وعلى آله وصحبه أجمعين السلام عليكم ورحمة الله وبركاته أستاد أبدا ورحمان حسن وعليكم السلام ورحمة الله وبركاته جزاك الله خيرا ها يدون today الحمد لله بارك الله فيكم once again for joining me on the hot sea podcast where today as always we're going to be tackling what is seen to be a very controversial issue in the religion of Islam and we're going to be talking about the dress code of a Muslim woman and really the majority of our conversation is going to be built around the issue of the face veil otherwise known as the niqab and this has been a discussion that obviously the Muslims in Europe are well accustomed to that there's been a number of issues raised particularly from France about how this is oppressive to the Muslim woman about how this should be abolished how this shouldn't be shouldn't be allowed in the 21st century and more recently than that as recent as last week within the Islamic world the Grand Mufti of Chechnya even came out with a statement saying that the niqab is a Wahhabi Saudi Arabian cultural practice and that's why we thought it would be important to talk about this issue right now and I really wanted to start on that kind of premise really before we talk about the face veil let's talk about the hijab itself the kind of the head covering is the hijab an actual worship and I suppose before that what is it what is the hijab what is the definition of the hijab and is it an actual worship or is it as the Mufti of Chechnya said a cultural practice الحمد لله رب العالمين له الحمد الحسن والثاناء الجميل واشدوا الله إلا الله وحده لا شريك له يقول الحق وهو يدي السبيل واشدوا أن محمدا عبده ورسوله صلى الله عليه وعلى آله وأصحابه والتابعين لهم بإحسان إلى يوم الدين أما بعد فالسبو جزاك الله خيرا فهبمي ما الله بلس يون ربوا بندل لي في حق المؤسسة، فجاب العربية الحجاب قد تستل ويخيز ويخيز ويخضع ويكفع وفي الشريعة يعني ما تستور به المرأة في الأمر فكرة تنسيها مع المسلمة والمرعة المسلمة ونسيها من إُرجال الأجانب لتنسيها المسلمين أولاً المسلمين هنا يحبون أن الأجانب ليست من who are not her brothers who are not her father those men are Mahārim her sons are Ahmadānu wa Betānu and Anquuz those are Mahārim those are not the ones which we're referring to لمن الرجال الأجانب هي أجانب أجانب من يومي like her cousin for example is an adjunibi. He's a foreign man from her. Even though some cultures believe. He's my only cousin. We've grew up together and everything. Still according to the religion. This is a foreign man from you. He's an adjunibi. من رؤية شيء من بدانها. So to cover herself. A Muslim woman to cover herself from men seeing her body. Those men are of course not her. That's what it means in the Sharia. حجاب is عبادة. Because Allah SWT he commanded hijab in the Quran. And also prohibited the opposite of hijab which is known as تبررج. تبررج means the woman coming out in the open. Without wearing the hijab. So Allah SWT he commanded hijab and prohibited the opposite. And that really drives the point home. Which is that hijab is a عبادة from the عبادات. قال تعالى الله says وإذا سألت مهن متاع فسألهن من وراء حجاب. ذلكم أطهروا لقلوبكم وقلوبهن. Allah SWT he says if you address them. If you speak to them. الله says فسألهن من وراء حجاب. يعني make sure that you ask them from behind a veil. So the word that's used here is حجاب. It's something to conceal them. And then Allah gives the reason for that. He says ذلكم أطهروا لقلوبكم. This is to purify your hearts. وقلوبهن and their hearts. That is now the women are being commanded. فسألهن من وراء حجاب. Because that's an order. And if Allah commands us something. We are forced to obey him سبحانه وتعالى. And the opposite is prohibitive which is تبررج. Allah says in the Qur'an. وقرنا في بيوت كنا ولا تبرجنا تبرج الجاهلية الأولى وأقيمنا الصلاة وأاتين الزكاة وأطيعنا الله ورسوله. Allah says to the women. You don't remain at home. وقرنا في بيوت كنا stay at home. ولا تبرجنا تبرج الجاهلية الأولى. And if it happens that you do have to go out. Don't do تبررج. And you don't come out with no hijab on. And then Allah تعالى mentions the concept of hijab in the context of what. وأقيمنا الصلاة وأاتين الزكاة وأطيعنا الله ورسوله. He mentions it in the context of إقامة الصلاة وإتاء الزكاة. And ترك التبررج all of them are mentioned together. And we all know that صلاة is عبادة. 100%. And we all know that الزكاة is also عبادة. And hijab was mentioned with those acts of worship. So that does show us that the hijab is an act of worship based on those two verses. And we are as Muslims when we're commanded to do something. مَا يُعُفِمَو. الله says وَمَا كَانَا لِمُؤْمِنِنْ وَلَا مُؤْمِنَةِنْ إِذَا قَضَ اللَّهُ وَرَسُولُهُ أَمْرَى أن يكون لهم الخيرات من أمرهم. If Allah had his messenger command a matter. No Muslim man or no Muslim woman has no they don't have no choice. And no man has a choice or any woman when Allah has his messenger passed a ruling in a matter. We have to submit. So if Allah is commanding the women to wear the hijab and to cover up then what is required from the believing women is وَأَطَعْنَا I hear and I obey that's what's upon the believing woman who believes in Allah يوم القيامة who believes that she's going to be accounted this is what's required from her to do straight away now. There are obviously some countries in the world where it is seen as a cultural practice if a woman is wearing a hijab out of a cultural practice not for the sake of Allah not as an out of worship will she be rewarded for that action? The act itself is a عبادة and the person has to be rewarded the person has to wear it as an act of عبادة in order to be rewarded Every action that we do is in accordance to our intention قال تعالى You are not commanded except to do things for الله تعالى say cologne Also the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم he said in a hadith صحيح من حديث عمر بن الخطاب إِنَّ مَنْ عَمَالُ بِلْنِيَاتُ وإِنَّ مَالُكُنْ لِمْرِ إِمَانَوَةِ فَمَنْ كَانَ تِجْرَتُهُ إِلَى اللَّهِ وَرَسُولِ فَإِجْرَتُهُ إِلَى اللَّهِ وَرَسُولِ وَمَنْ كَانَ تِجْرَتُهُ لِدُونِيَا يُصِيبُهَ وِمْرَأةٍ يَنْكِحُهُ فَإِجْرَتُهُ إِلَا مَا هَاَجْرَ إِلَيْتِ Every action is based on the intention and everybody is going to be rewarded in accordance to their intention So if a person does an act of عبادة without the intention of being a عبادة you don't get the reward for it Okay So you've brought obviously evidences to show that the hijab has been commanded and the opposite of the hijab has been prohibited which clearly indicates that it's an act of worship However, we also know with Allah's rules and His regulations that things aren't just legislated without a reason behind it So what is the wisdom for the legislation of the hijab? The scholars they mentioned few which all of it has been taken from the Qur'an and it's taken from the prophetic sunnah it's taken from the prophetic tradition And it's things that the Prophet ﷺ said and these are found in the Qur'an الله تبارك التعالى He mentioned in the Qur'an that it's a purification of the hearts of the women and the hearts of the men So the first wisdom is طهارة القلوب وتسكيةها And Allah says in the ayah إذا سألتمهن متاعا فسألوهن من وراء حجاب ذلكم أطهروا لقلوبكم وقلوبهن That if you speak to them and you speak, you're talking to the women الله تبارك التعالى He said Ask them from behind a veil Then Allah mentions إلّا حكمة That is why He sanctioned this ruling He says ذلكم أطهروا لقلوبكم It purifies your heart And it also purifies the hearts of the men So this ayah is informing us telling us that the حكمة مقصد of why hijab was sanctioned The objective of why hijab was sanctioned is طهارة القلوب وتسكيةها The second reason is that the hijab is من الحياة It's a sign of modesty and shyness والحياة ومن الإيمان And shyness is part of iman I don't think anybody would disagree with that but I think it's true That the messenger said إن الحياة من الإيمان The shyness is from iman And wearing a hijab Covering yourself up Covering your face And your body parts Is a sign of shyness And الله تبارك وتعالى He mentioned In صورة القصص When he was talking about The daughter of The man of Median A righteous man from Median Some people they say This man was shuaib But that's not right It's a righteous man from Median When Allah تبارك وتعالى Was talking about this man's daughter Allah تبارك وتعالى She wanted to talk to نبي الله موسى عليه السلام كليم الله She wanted to talk to موسى عليه السلام And Allah تبارك وتعالى He mentioned about her He said فجاءتوا إحداهما تمشي على استحياء This woman she came over To نبي الله موسى Walking with shyness تمشي على استحياء That's what he says She was walking and she was shy Now What does it mean تمشي على استحياء Like how do you walk shyness عمر من الخطاب Explain this يبنو كثير In his تفسير On the ayah That عمر رضي الله عنه He said كانت He said جاءت تمشي على استحياء قائلة بثوبها على وشيها ليست لسالفع خراجة واللاجة He said she came Walking جاءت تمشي على استحياء She was walking with shyness قائلة بثوبها على وشيها And she was covering With her cloth She was covering her face She was what She was covering her face ليست لسالفع خراجة واللاجة سالفع She wasn't a woman who was جريئة سليطة A woman who was dominating When she was talking And speaking Loud and everything And she's not a خراجة كثيرة الخروج A woman who keeps leaving all the time ولا واللاجة And a woman who keeps entering And some women always are on about In-out In-out The house for them is only A place to sleep Whereas the house should be The house should be the place Where the woman stays The majority of her time She's protected from the society The evil people around So This is One of the wisdoms Why Our mother Or The righteous woman Of this man مدين Was walking in that way Also it was Just before you move on You said that the house Is where the woman That should be her That should be where she Spends majority of the time Is that Your opinion or is there With the leave from the قلعان والسلم Allah says to the women Remain in your houses وقرنا في بيوت كنا ولا تبررجنا And don't go out The woman she didn't She didn't go out all the time And when there's a hajah She should go And by the way I said hajah Not ضرورة So she can leave When there is a hajah When there is a need It doesn't have to reach Necessity for her to leave She can leave We're not saying she can't leave Like in the أصل يعني The majority of the time She's at home She leaves when there is A need and when there's Like in all the time You call the house The man is picking up the phone Or the children are Picking up the phone And the mom's not home This to be honest Really speaking From a perspective It's not in line with What the شريعة says أسماء بالتعوميسين She said about فاطمة بنتي رسولي الله صلى الله عليه وسلم That's Fatima This is the shyness Of the righteous women This is the shyness of The people who've tasted The sweetness of Eman This is the daughter Of the prophet عليه الصلاة والسلام His own daughter She said to أسماء بالتعوميسين She said يا أسماؤ إني قد استقبحت ما يصنع بالنساء I feel distasteful Okay That which is done To the women I'm very distasteful Towards what is done To the women يطرحوا على المرأة يثوبوا فيصفواها The shroud is placed On the woman Her body And it still Shows her body parts This is a dead body This is a person Who's passed away who died فاطمة رضي الله عنها She's saying That this woman When she dies And they She passed away They placed a shroud on her You can still See her body parts Her curves And her blossoms And all of that She's saying This doesn't I don't like it It mentions You know حجم عضائها Whether her bones are big or not So she didn't like رضي الله عنها This shows you سبحان الله يعني It's the concept of حيا شاينس It was a sign of shyness ولي داركة There was a woman From the قصص والعرب From the stories of the Arabs That were mentioned That her خمار فلف From her face And she took her hand straight away To cover her face With her other hand And then the poet He said He said سقطة النصيف يعني نصيف يعني نصيف It means the خمار سقطة النصيف ولم تريد اسقاطه فتعاولته واتقتنا باليد خمار فل from her face And she didn't intended for it to fall But what she did was فتعاولته واتقتنا باليد So she took her other hand To cover her face And I remember سبحان الله when I went back to my country Somalia and I saw the Somali girls that go to school by the way the schools some schools are but the school I was going to was segregated boys and girls were segregated but if it ever happened that the boys and the girls had to leave the gates and you saw a girl leaving and you would always see the following it was something very common subhanAllah and it took me back that even though they're not wearing لقاب but because they were in big jilbab they take the side of the jilbab they put their hand inside and they cover it over their faces for no one to see them right so it's subhanAllah it's a noble characteristics Allah asks Allah I ask Allah from the bottom of my heart that increases this in our Muslim women the third reason why the نقاب was or the حجاب in general is sanctioned is because it protects the woman الحجابه حماية للنساء من أد الفسقين the حجاب is a thing that protects the women from the harms of the transgressors and the criminals we know we're not living in a a perfect world where there's righteous people right left center there are criminals here there we're talking about thugs we're talking about yeah I mean rapists we're talking about evil people our religion wants to protect our women it doesn't want our women to fall into these problems وكان الله وفورة رحيمة الله says and your daughters and the believing women where they cover themselves with their جلباب ذلك أدنا أن يعرفنا فلا يودين this is a means for her not to be recognized and not harmed فلا يودين وكان الله وفورة رحيمة and verily Allah is one who is Allah is one who is very forgiving and merciful to His creation so the ayah says فلا يودين نواد فلا يودين is it's a clear evidence that the word فلا يودين is a means that protects the women from the people who have these eyes who want to harm her last but not least the fourth one is that it protects the men and the women both of them from falling into it it protects the man and the woman from falling into it so this woman she meets a man in order for him to have any sexual intercourse with her first of all the clothes have to go off no one has sexual intercourse with clothes on do not come close to zina for verily it is a evil thing it's a fact it's a crime and it's a evil thing the ayah says ولا تقربوا and zina don't come close to zina the ayah did not prohibit from it didn't prohibit us from merely doing the action of zina it didn't it said don't get close to zina so this is it's getting it's a prohibition of getting closer to zina not just the the action of zina itself and this is powerful it's more greater why because anything that would lead to zina is closed which is what the scholars call all those evil means they have to be blocked off so we're not allowed to look at a woman after lower our gaze because it's protecting us from zina we're not allowed to a woman is not allowed to wear hijab that shows her she's not allowed to wear clothing that shows her body parts or she's not allowed all of that is going to lead to zina سبحان الله just as a final point i want to conclude with that women are objectified when they wear you know less clothes i mean the less clothes that she wears the less the more revealing she is the more i mean skin that's displayed the more the woman is objectified and she's seen less intelligent and she's also uh يعني بالليتولed and يعني degraded and this is سبحان الله something they themselves and non-muslims are testified to this in surveys that they've done researches that they've done يعني they've looked at this matter by the way not just they've looked at it from a neurological perspective سيكولوجيا perspective why are psychologically men like this if a woman comes with a mini skirt they objectify her straight away they don't just objectify her they dehumanize her they take that value of her being a human being from the from from this woman i was taken back various studies by the way i've come across يعني ample studies that point towards how external cues that the women or such such as her appearance for example and the Atai that she wears could play a key role in encourage that encourages objectify objectification dehumanization and the denial of any intellectual grounds i mean this is well research is that they've been non-muslims in in April uh an April 1999 a survey by the genet news service they revealed that almost one in three people in the us believe that the behavior or dress of a woman plays a role of her being a rape victim and it can contribute to the act of a rapist just because of what every like this this is a big every one every يعني three people one person is saying i believe that يعني the reason why women get raped is because of the clothes they're wearing by the way i have to put this out no woman deserves to be raped even if she takes off all of her clothes and she's naked and she's wearing nothing no one deserves to be raped no one deserves to be harmed just because you know a woman dressed in a certain way does not in any way shape or form allow a rapist to rape i'm not justifying rapists and they do deserve a very serious dealing rapists يعني they should be dealt with seriously and it's not something i would love for my sister or my mother or however way they act with that being said though we need to take our precautions this is what the point is in 1978 by the way i like that i'm going backwards i'm not talking about now when yeah that's true that's true you said 1999 first time in 1978 these are like subhan Allah surveys and you know um researches that were done earlier i want to show when people are more modest people are more honest people are more this يعني the world the the social media and what it's done subhan Allah this work was become crazier in 1978 sexual assault cases there was a sexual assault case that took place in the montana supreme court they noted out that the defendant testified that the sexual conduct the rapist he testified that the reason why he committed this was encouraged by the dress and behavior of the woman he raped because i wasn't going to do it news reports provided accounts of instances in which the victims clothing were introduced into evidence in a courtroom يعني they took their clothing just to check what was the reason why the rapist did it يعني the non-muslims are even saying this so if her sister believes that the more skin she shows if she believes the more she gets rid of her hijab that she's going to be respected increased skin display was not self rated as modest يعني they did a survey they said increased skin display was not self rated as modest no one from all of the participants are participating in the survey يعني few said it the number was so low women expecting high levels of investment act of chest emphasize of their fidelity whereas women who do not expect investment if a woman wanted to be respected for her chest or brain and her intellect she wanted to be respected for how she carries herself she covered more this is the research they did and women who did not expect you know to be an emotionally invested with her or intellectually invested with her she flaunted the sexuality to extract the preproduction you know investment from as many males as possible in other words she's playing into men's desires she wants to be respected for her looks and this is subhanallah you as a person telling men to objectify you dehumanize you and then you get you know you get that response from men they there's no احترام for you you see and remember subhanallah very strongly i was in college and a girl must have and he got too close to a boy and what he did to her was he touched her in an inappropriate way he touched her in an inappropriate way and subhanallah the girl of course he has no rights to his no rights to this is wrong unequivocally wrong but what i sensed from it was the fact that she read she acted in that way gave him the impression that she wouldn't he would not mind if he did this do you understand my point yeah yeah as though she invited this and so when he when she got angry and she said oh you just started why did you touch me in an inappropriate way why did you do that when she responded in that way as she said what she said uh he's jaw dropped like where did that come from i thought i thought we could do what we want to each other right right right again i'm not saying that what he did was right and i'm not justifying her to keep putting them there but i'm just trying to say to you human psychology is like that if you show more skin if this is the way the world you take a piece of meat and you place it on top of a tree lie and see it they're not going to let it go they're going to eat that piece of me you leave it in the desert i you leave it in the in the jungle and again i'm not saying a woman is a piece of meat again i'm not saying i'm not comparing i'm not comparing a piece of meat to a woman but what i'm saying is what i'm comparing is يعني being lackadaisical in a situation يعني exposing yourself out like that same way as exposing your your your your you don't leave your phone outside and expect no one to steal it i'm just comparing just being lackadaisical you know not be considerate not knowing that your actions can lead to a reaction can lead to a reaction yeah i understand okay i think that's an important introduction that you've laid out before we go on to the discussion of the niqab the face veil i just want to close out the discussion of the hijab i think a lot of people actually believe because the word hijab is used commonly as just referring to to kind of a headscarf and nothing else and that is how it's used in many muslim communities and i even said it in the introduction that as a headscarf which was wrong on me so i've actually got the conditions of the hijab here there's nine conditions which i'd like to read out okay and i think these are conditions which have been derived from the Quran and the sunnah which the scholars agree upon okay so the first one is the hijab the hijab must cover her entire body so there's two things that i'll take from this the first thing is that the the the thought that it's just a headscarf alone obviously gets wiped out by this condition it has to cover her entire body the second thing i would say is that there is a genuine discussion about whether that entire body includes the face of the hands which is going to form the rest of this podcast the discussion has taken place between the scholars the second condition it should be thick enough to conceal what is underneath it it should be loose fitting and not tight it should not be so attractive as to call men's attention to it no it should not be perfumed it should not be a dress of fame or it should not be extravagant in any way correct it should not resemble the dress of men it should not resemble the dress of disbelieving women and it should not be adorned with any crosses or pictures of animate beings so those are conditions that i'm sure you say that are kind of like agreed upon by both sides whether you believe the face where it was obligatory or not aside from the first condition about the entire body whether it includes the face or not i think that's an important thing to lay out for the for the muslim sisters who might be watching this that the hijab is not just a headscarf and then you wear jeans and t-shirt and you think that you're wearing a hijab it's it's much more comprehensive than that it's true okay so let's move on to the the main discussion then so now we're going to be moving on to talk about whether then the niqab is obligatory or not and just before we start the discussion just to reiterate the point really that the difference of opinion that's occurred between the scholars has never been about whether niqab is part of islam or whether it's a cultural practice and it has no place in the religion that's not what we're discussing here what we're discussing is one side of the table say that it's obligatory and a muslim woman has to cover her face and if she doesn't do she's sinning and the other side of the table say it's something that's highly recommended it's part of the religion we'd encourage all the sisters to wear the niqab but they just don't go that extra step and say that it's obligatory you're going to be representing your belief which is the niqab is obligatory now and i'll be representing the other side which say that it's highly recommended but it's not obligatory i think whenever you have a discussion like this the one who is affirming an obligation the burden of proof is always lays with him so if anybody watching this podcast isn't fully convinced with the proofs that you're going to bring forward then the default is to say that it's highly encouraged it's part of the religion women should wear it but it's not necessarily an obligation so let's begin then and i'll give you the floor to bring your first proof okay first of all جزاك الله خيران the conditions that you mentioned سبحانه وتعالى is very important that sisters do understand that these are the conditions that no scholar differs upon the differences here are not about whether she can wear tight clothing or not that there's no discussion on that or whether her clothing can resemble the clothing of men or her clothing can be see-through or etc the hijab the difference here amongst the scholars is the نقاب is it obligatory or or is it not some scholars will say it is obligatory and some scholars are saying it is not obligatory again this is a valid difference of opinion it's a valid difference of opinion and i strongly hold an opinion after research after looking into the issue i sincerely believe that the woman should cover her face it's about it's an obligation she must and that it's a strong issue but i do honestly say from the bottom of my heart it's not a matter i will make it my first choice to discuss deeply about because i can see great imams of islam differ on these issues with that being said i don't also want people to take from this podcast that i'm saying that every woman who is not wearing the نقاب must follow my opinion and if they don't they are serious i'm not saying that i'm just here in شاء الله تعالى just to put my point across give my evidences allow those sisters who are out there who haven't heard this discussion before to pick their side of whichever view they want to take in شاء الله تعالى after the podcast and if in شاء الله تعالى you were wearing the نقاب we don't want this podcast if it turns out that your your points are convincing to that sister to say oh i'm now going to take off my نقاب because yeah i mean ورئة زو ايس سنة you know where is that something that both sides agree with that's encouraged so and if you're not wearing it and after this podcast you've watched it it's also again recommended for you to wear it we will encourage you to wear it we ask Allah to protect our sisters wherever they are again this issue is not an issue i'm going to impose on anybody i don't impose it i wouldn't even oppose it on my wife i wouldn't tell my wife you have to wear نقاب if you don't wear نقاب i wouldn't say that know what i impose it on my daughters and my aunties and my mother or i wouldn't i believe it's a يعني فقي issue the اختلاف is very strong on this issue it's a valid difference of opinion and it is not befitting and it's not right for a jurist to impose his opinion onto the people to force it onto the people and once you study you learn there's a valid difference of opinion put your point across and if the people find your points convincing my own مشايخ that i took from a large portion of them don't believe that نقاب is واجب they don't believe it's واجب and so again i don't go about speaking to sisters about wearing نقاب and you're a sinner if you don't wear نقاب i don't but i encourage it so i just don't want people to leave it with this and say this is it again you're trying to you know to make matters hard upon the muslim women and الله knows best coming to your question there are evidences from the Qur'an and the sunnah that point out that the نقاب is complicated there are verses in the Qur'an i'm so i'm so so to interject i think um what would be good for the viewers at home is when you're going through these verses to actually get the verses on there either their phone or their laptop because i'm sure you're going to be going through certain parts of verses certain words and it'd be good for them to follow along okay إن شاء الله و تعالى so the first evidence that i want to use إن شاء الله و تعالى to prove that the نقاب is واجب and it's obligatory is an ayah that i mentioned before i touched on before where الله سبحانه و تعالى he says و إذا سألت موهن متاعن فسألوهن من ورايه هجاب ذلكم أطحروا لقلوبكم وقلوبهن this ayah is in surat al-hazab ayah 53 correct yeah correct الله تباركه تعالى he says و إذا سألت موهن متاعن when you ask these women about a matter فسألوهن أاستهم من ورايه هجاب from behind a veil الله سبحانه و تعالى كم أطحروا لقلوبكم وقلوبهن very disapurification for their hearts on the hearts of the men now this ayah it's come down speaking to the believing women the ayah says و إذا سألت موهن متاعن if you ask them the wives of the prophet ﷺ but even though it's come down on the wives of the prophet ﷺ we believe that it's general it's not restricted only to the wives of the prophet ﷺ the reason is because because of what Allah mentions after that which is ذلكم أطحروا لقلوبكم وقلوبهن that it's a purification for your heart and their hearts and صاحب المراقي he mentions in his line of poetry which is أصول الفق بوك a thousand lines which I encourage the Taliban students of knowledge to try to memorize it it gives you an ability to understand how to extract rulings and understanding from the Qur'an and the sunnah he says و قد يخصص و قد يعمم لأصلها لكنها لا تخرم و قد يخصص و قد يعمم لأصلها لكنها لا تخرم that the the reasoning because the ayah now says ذلكم أطحروا لقلوبكم و قلوبهن it's a reason why Allah legislated the hijab he's saying it to us here and remember when I was talking about the مقاصد العظيمة مقاصد العظيمة و حكم بالغة why Allah yeah remember I mentioned تهارت القلوب وتسكيتها that the heart is purified that was the first reason you mentioned that was the first reason now so here this is a reason it's a illa that's what the word the scholars use they use it as a illa or they call it manat the manat of this حكم i mean the illa of this hukum this ruling is ذلكم أطحروا لقلوبكم و قلوبهن according to the scholars the illa the reasoning can sometimes make something general okay and sometimes it can make it specific and sometimes some فقها what they fall into is a mistake which is they bring a reasoning which actually damages the illa itself and I explain I'll give an example إن شاء الله و تعالى first of all let me give an example of a illa a reasoning specifying في فق الشافعي على مدى الإمام الشافعي there is something known as I mean there's a thick method that's شافعية بلي which is لامس المرأة touching a woman break صوضه شافعية believe a woman breaks a woman if you touch a woman right now it should break a word and they use two ayats one in مائد and one sword النساء والله تباركة على منشنز أولا مستم النساء that's one another place على مما تقولون ولا جنوبا إلا عابل سبيل حتى تغتسلوا وإن كنت مربع أو على سفر أو جاء حدو بكم من الغاية لامستم النساء both of those verses mentioned lamps touching a woman شافعية took from this the view of عبدالله من المسعود regarding lamps there's two views عبدالله من المسعود and عبدالله من عباس عبدالله من المسعود said oh لامستم النساء means if you touch a woman عبدالله من المسعود she'll break a word based on the آية then that means that if you touch a woman she'll break a word عبدالله من المسعود عبدالله من عباس on the other hand he believes that the word lamps here means جماع sexual intercourse which is the strongest opinion إن شاء الله تعالى لكن فق الشافعي if they say that oh لامستم النساء that the lamps here is touching a woman there's an issue that they have in front of them which is what oh لامستم النساء النساء has the elephalam in it this elephalam according to the nuhat the grammarians is استغراقية it means that it encompasses all women so the question is oh لامستم النساء and نساء means all women so you guys say that if a man touches touches any woman she'll break his word they're now stuck so it means if i touch my mom she breaks my word if i touch my daughter she breaks my word if i touch my maternal or paternal auntie it breaks my word even though it's weird enough أصحاب الوجود الشافق some of them actually do you say that every woman breaks like in there's other which is not the قول اعتمد في المدهب it's that the only one who breaks her word is of course your wife and women which are a jannip foreign women the reason why how they've how have they specified oh لامستم النساء النساء here is general how have they come and specified it they specified it with a a reasoning what's the reason they said they said they said the reason why the women touching her breaks your word is that sexual intercourse out of desires out of desires and that can't occur between you and your daughter that kind of or you and your mother unless you're a first something your unique situation but other than that no no man's going to find شاوة in touching his daughter or his mother or his maternal paternal auntie but like in شاوة it does come if you if you touch your wife or you you know if you touch a woman from outside it's this now specify the idea is another case so that's what they mean وقت خصص وقت عمي منا it means it may make general i'll give you another example the professor which is what is happening here which is happening in this situation the professor he also said لا يحكم احد لا يحكم احد بين اثناني وهو غضبان وقاري المسلم و اثنان ريته this the professor he said that a person should not judge لا يحكم احد بين اثناني a person should not judge between two people وهو غضبان و why else he's angry now some of the scholars they said what's the reason again they're looking for the الا again we took this before every every ruling of Allah has a الا a reason behind it because Allah's actions are filled with حكم and wisdom right now what's the reason why الله تعالى doesn't allow a man to judge between two people why else he's in a state of anger which is you haven't got control of your thoughts he's minds all over the place there's going to be خلال in his حكم the ruling that he passes there's going to be a deficiency now if you take تشويل الفكر that his mind is all over the place if you take that that can be applied for many things it can be used for someone who's excessively happy he finds out that the family accepted him for marrying their daughter he's all over the place or yeah and he got his job back or you know his salary is going to be boosted he's going to be in the ceo position or something like that he's over the place he's going to judge unfairly he's going to be biased in his ruling not just for anger for other reasons we've taken a person who needs to go to the toilet for example and he's holding it and so he's just going to pass the ruling quickly because he needs to go to the toilet we made it general we didn't just restrict it to our how am i trying to use it here i'm trying to use it here by the way this is a procedure that we took by getting the علة and getting the علة mentioned right next to the ruling this is known as دلالة الاماق والتنبيه which صاحب المراقي says دلالة الاماق والتنبيه فالفن تقصد لدا و لدا لدا ذويه and يقرن الوصف بحكم أن يكون لغير علة يعيبه منفط it is to basically mention the علة next to the حكم and the person who's listening he a wise scholar when he looks at it he's like oh that makes sense for the حكم and علة they make sense he wants to see it as a the point i'm trying to come to is if you speak to a woman the women here are the prophet's wives speak to them from what behind the behind the veil that is the reason for this is what out how it's a purification pay attention here where the wives of the prophet's heart purified every every muslim woman would say yeah of course i mean of course the wives of the prophet's heart are more pure even than any man after that our mother has a pure heart than any man we know that exists right now with that being said how can i ruling that the the need for it is more stronger for other people than the wives of the prophet's heart so we say based on the the that's one this is the i that is used to say that the wives of the prophet's heart need to wear niqab scholars use this i to say that the prophet's wives need to wear niqab because of the i where Allah says when you speak to the women فسألوه النا أسطب من ورائي حجاب from behind a though by the way pay attention here it says من ورائي from behind يعني the curtain is there and the woman is behind it her entire body he can't see anything from that woman من ورائي حجاب the scholars use this i to say that the niqab is واجب on who the prophet's wives but we're gonna say it's not restricted to the prophet's wife by wives why can't it be restricted to the prophet's wives is because this إلّة that was reason mentioned after it brings every woman in okay okay so i just want to summarize your argument just to break it down for the people make it easy for them so this is talking about the surah number 33 i number 53 and we have an ayah which is quite clearly telling that asked that the wives of the prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم have to wear niqab and that's actually something that both sides agree with even sides who disagree that niqab is واجب for all women they actually say just in case people aren't aware they actually say that yes the wives of the prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم have to wear the niqab but this was specific for them and they also use this as a proof that's a common ground that you have with your opponents you then take it a step further and actually say that the reason for this is actually given in the ayah itself and that is so it's أكبر for their hearts and for the hearts of the believing men and your argument is actually if that's the case for them but we all agree that we're more pious than us then how can it not be the case for us because our hearts are more in need for purification than theirs and this isn't something you're bringing from your back pocket it's actually a principle in the soul of فرق and you've actually bought another example in شافة فرق where it's actually used and another حديث about judging and ruling while you're angry as well to prove that this is actually used now the counter-argument from the people who believe the niqab is not wajib we actually have a look at this ayah i think the the obvious argument is that الله Himself quite clearly specified in this ayah from the very start right until the very end that this ayah was specifically for the wives of the prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم at the start of the ayah الله says do not enter the houses of the prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم at the end of the ayah الله says do not marry his wives after him and we both agree that the context denotes that this is actually talking about the wives of the prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم and in other ayah that is about the the discussion of the niqab الله does clearly and I'm sure we'll come to these ayahs as well الله does clearly address the believing women وَقُلُ الْمُقْمِنَات for example whereas in this ayah He specifically didn't address women as a whole so that's an argument that they kind of put forward and they say therefore you can't extrapolate it all because Allah is the one who restricted it and who gives you the right to make it general but you've already explained how you did that and that's a valid valid explanation my question I suppose would be this we obviously know that the prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم is responsible for teaching us the deen he's a responsible teaching us the Quran the explanation of the Quran when this ayah came down do we have a statement of his that says oh my companions this ayah is clearly talking about my wives but just to let you guys know it is applicable to all women this ayah first of all is called and the ayah the Quran we need to understand how it speaks have to really like really study the way that the Quran talks and the way that the Quran addresses us for example if we look at the Quran it doesn't tell us no play in the Quran does Allah say that smoking is حرام now somebody would come up to you and say to you if it's حرام why did Allah you know why did Allah not mention it but what we say is Allah mentions reasons الله says you're going to bring those verses don't harm yourself don't cause yourself harm and we know that cigarettes have that so we're going to say that's how the Quran speaks the Quran is not a you know list it doesn't list all the حرام it gives you characteristics it gives you حكم it gives you علل it gives you manate you take it back to that here when Allah is saying وإذا سلتموهن متاعن فسألوهن من ورائح يجاب ذلكم أضطروا لقلوبك من قلوب هنا straight away understood that the صحابة صحابة understood the مفصرين understood from it that the عموم العلا هي is what is talking about the women to come because again the Quran is not الله says the Quran is not warning only the صحابة and the disbelievers it's warning anyone who reaches them the Quran he didn't just say اللواتي لثن لكم which are not for you guys what is it بأزواج المتاع فسألوهن من ورائح يجاب he says so this what we take from it is and it really does explain to us is that the مفصر إمام المفصرين ابن جرير الطبري took from this عموم العلا because of that last part of the he says did he specifically mention that's the reason that he made it general because he said he said the reason why he's making it general is the same route that you're going down because of the there's no other reason he could have got it from he could have only got it from that reason there's no other external point to refer that point to يعني تعدع إنه only means that he's taking it from that principle of عموم العلا also there's a سبب نزول of this آية بخارب mentions it in the صحيح من طريق أبي قلابه that he said قال أنا سبن ماريكين أنا أعلم الناس بهذه الآية آية الحجاب أنا سبن ماريكس العاية i'm the one who knows this آية آية الحجاب better than anybody لما أهديت زينابه إلى رسول الله when zeynab was given to the prophet as a gift كانت معه في البيت الشي was in the house with him سنعطى عامن ودعى القومة the prophet ﷺ of food was made then he greeted the people and after they ate he gave them salams يعني indicating they could leave now so what did they do فقاعدوا يتحدثونه they stayed and they started to talk and talk فجعل النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم يخرج لما يرجع the prophet kept going out coming in وهم قعودوا يتحدثونه and they were just sitting there just talking conversing amongst themselves and then the آية came down يأيوا الذين آمنوا لا تتقلوبوا يوتن النبي إلا يؤذن لكم إلى طعام غير أماظيرين إناه وإنتيوا من وراء حجاب وإذا سلتموا لما تعافت سألونا من وراء حجاب ذلكم أطهروا لقلوبكم وقلوبهنا فضوري بالحجاب وده حجاب was then thrown وأقام القوم and the people stood up here now شيقو الإسلام متيمية he mentioned that this يعني sorry sorry بخاري in a statement of abe qilaba أنا اسمه ماري it clearly and categorically mentions that this was the prophet's wives who was being addressed here and of course we say that عموم ولا إلا of the يعني آية is our support there's a point I need to mention which is and I find it's so often amongst the Muslims which is يا أخي the ayah is not clearly indicated in this it is clear but you just have to think over it because remember when you're distanced from the سياق and a salib of the Qur'an the way that the Qur'an talks of course for you it's going to be like this doesn't it's far-fetched you'll see it like that you think this is what the Qur'an is trying to say and but really saying this يعني the Qur'an are wordings and meanings always remember this الفاف ونعان wordings and meaning that's what it is the whole discussion in the Qur'an the religion is about when do we just stick to the wording and when do we go you know big in the meaning that's the whole يعني the whole concept وصول الفق and the whole concept of the مداهيب الأربعة and all of this is this that's really what it revolves around yeah this is what they call دلالات العالفات the indications of these words and the scholars they divide it into two types they say منطوق and مفهوم منطوق means when you speak what I take from your statements directly and مفهوم is what is understood from your statement and then منطوق they categorize it into two they say صريح and غير صريح يعني ديركت وانديركت that which is صريح that دلالة يعني the منطوق this the statement I uttered which is كليكات is متابقة and تضمون when I say house to you you can straight away understand what I mean okay تضمون means window when I say window to you you understand a house is in there it's a portion of a house which is تضمون there's دلالة which is غير صريح the منطوق which is غير صريح because the منطوق which is غير صريح and that's basically الالتزام دلالة to الالتزام and دلالة to الالتزام is what's necessitated if you see a house and you see windows and locks and keys what do you understand somebody made it I never said that to you I just said to your house you understood from my statement that somebody made it that's الالتزام it's necessitated from discussion that's divided into three the دلالة الالتزام دلالة الإقتباء دلالة الإشارة and دلالة التنبيه والإماء دلالة التنبيه والإماء especially when you study يعني the concept of إلا in قياس one of the four pillars of قياس إلا مسال كل إلا when you speak about it دلالة التنبيه والإماء is what I use for the ayah ده لكم أطهروا لقلوبك ونقلوبه هنا which I put the statement of صاحب المراقي when he mentioned it رحمه الله تعالى دلالة الإماء والتنبيه في الفن تقصدوا لدى دويه أن يقرنا الوصف بحكم إن يكون لغيره إلا تنعيبه منفاته just as the side benefit some scholars they say فاطون they say فاطين and فاطن but I think نشر البلود say the same شارحة والمراقس سعود but it's best to say فاطون على وزن فعول فعيلة فعولة فعالة صح spirit say فعولة على هذا الوزن because of the fear that it might go wrong in the pronunciation of the approach and there's مفهوم now مفهوم is what's understood from the conversation مفهوم is مفهوم الموافقة المفهوم المخالفة مفهوم الموافقة is two types مفهوم المساوي مفهوم أولاء which is sometimes called فح والخطاب and مفهوم which is the same is equal which is كلحن والخطاب for example you're not allowed to beat your mother no what are you going to use you're going to say وقضاربك لا تعبدوا إلا إيه وبالواليدة إحسانة إما يبلغنا عندك الكبرا حدوما وكلاعما فلا تقلهم أفن ولا تنهرهما وكلهم قولاً كريمة فلا تقلهم أفن دوزة أفتداً but I'll say to bro he says off but you always say whatever is worse than an offal more than an offal so يعني this is يعني مفهوم أولاً يعني it's more befitting that you can't beat your mother up it's called فح والخطاب there's دليل which is called دليل المخالفة which is sorry it's called مفهوم المخالفة and it's also known as دليل الخطاب which is مفهوم صفة مفهوم الشرط يعني why I'm trying to say all of this is that when you read the Quran don't just take the صحق أولاما just do things as they wish yeah there's a way to take from the Quran yeah I think I think the difficult that you're going to have with proving that this particular ayah is actually making in the Qabwa أجب upon everybody I think to say it's قلقات would be difficult because we are obviously said that starts a valid difference opinion between bona fide scholars and the second thing is there's a difference between this and the smoking example that you bought out for example this is really talking about an issue that affects the majority of mankind while women and it affects them almost on a daily basis many women today have to go to school to pick up the children even if they're inside their house they have brother and all come in they have family and they're going to have to wear in a Qab and yet to say something that is this magnitude and this frequent to imply it from a verse which is quite clearly and categorically talking to the wives of the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم just because of the أمام الإلاء I think a lot of people might find that difficult to accept but I have another question for you as well I've but don't this is this is the side point before you move on to the next point do you think the time of the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم the people's hearts were better the men I do think they were better yeah the people's today's hearts are either men today are western they yeah I agree with that totally so if that time with that good heart that أبو بكر was around أمر أبو بكر was around so I know about people were around that الله تبارك وتعالى is saying to the women cover your faces at that time when they were good people there isn't it not more sense today where the fitness is greater and harm is more يعني something محمد مينشان قيطي you said I remember which is فإن التعاليلة وتعالى هذا الحكم الذي هو إيجاب الحجابي بكوني أطحل لقلوب الرجال والنساء من الريبة في قولي تعالى ذلكم أطحل لقلوبكم ومقلوب هنا قرينة واضحة على إرادة إرادة عمي من الحكم the fact that الله mentions سبحانه وتعالى the the men and the women's heart being pure in this آية shows how general it is we did a podcast on the names and attributes الله and I really liked your approach on that you had a really good approach and I asked you some difficult questions like for example does Allah have a body and you said I only affirm what Allah affirms and I only negate while Allah negates if he hasn't affirmed it I don't affirm it if he hasn't negated I really like the way you did that now you're saying let's use logic and let's just say don't you think the wives of the Prophet ﷺ their hearts were pure than ours and the men of that time were pure than ours can you understand why this is a bit contradictory considering your previous approach was Allah says this and I stick to it and that's what I'm trying to do here Allah says this is for the wives of the Prophet ﷺ you're trying to say that but their hearts were more pure than ours therefore we should take it on as well I'm not saying in any way shape or form and I've never said that the akhal is never a proof the akhal is only not a proof when it goes against the I'm a one people think it's going against the Quran of the Sunnah a sound mind does not go against authentic evidence that's a principle we believe in our religion sound mind does not go against sorry clear authentic evidences that's the reality our religion is is a logical religion it's like some people they think don't use your akhal at all no way does Allah say don't use your akhal you just don't use your akhal to oppose the Quran of the Sunnah because sometimes what could happen is you have a deficiency in your akhal you because maybe you're young you haven't experienced this issue you don't know yet and you go against the Quran of the Sunnah based on that immature mindset that you have okay but other people are like uh that's this issue is crystal clear i mean for example homosexuality it's clear to to to a lot of people that this is not a right thing but then a group of people a minority might say i don't see that yeah i don't see that as a problem logically they might say okay it's fine it's not an issue with me we say no we're not going to use the person who's who's lost the sound mind he doesn't have that anymore so again we are going to use logic to prove evident matter which has been proved in the Quran of the Sunnah we are i mean the prophet did عليه الصلاة والسلام the whole chapter of qiyas analogy is using your mind the prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم said a woman who came to her صلى الله عليه وسلم she said يا رسول الله my mother she passed away and there is not she's got a debt on her she's got some fast thing when she has to do should i do it from my mother the prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم she said ان كان على أمك دينين if your mother had some debt on her كنت قاضية would you have paid back that debt on your mother she said yes she said this is الله's فدين الله يحكوا أن يقضى the the debt of Allah the loaner is more befitting do you see yeah yeah i think each of these proofs that you're going to move forward could we could discuss them for an hour and a half each yeah um just before i move on to this one a couple of final questions do you believe slave goes have to wear the cup no no i don't believe it why not if they're including this in there as well the scholars by unanimous agreement they mention it by the way the wives of the prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم are free of course yeah of course but they're included in it'll be purer for our hearts and their hearts the slave goes hearts if they did cover right and according to you that's the reason they should be made general so why are you applying it to them as well there wasn't ever a fear of يعني a free man to have that for a slave woman it wasn't present they can be now because obviously like you said our hearts have changed in fact why don't we get men to cover because nowadays the hearts of men are actually no we're not that because homosexuality do you see how this can actually be taken and made into a ridiculous kind of now let's let's understand something when it comes to inshallah this issue of عورة and we speak about عورة we have to understand that the عورة is types scholars when they look at the concept of عورة or the concept of they divide it into different different types there's an عورة in the صلاة and there's عورة outside the صلاة عورة meaning يعني that which you can expose and that which your body parts and that which you can't for example can a man pray what's the عورة of a man yes cover from the with outside the prayer no outside the prayer yeah from the the knees of the navel so from the navels to the knees is عورة outside the prayer right correct a man has to cover that much yeah does he have to have anything on his shoulders not outside the prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم said على عاتي قيشة أو كما قال عليه سلم one of you should not pray and there's nothing on his shoulders for a man so a man has to have something on his shoulders what he prays that's not for outside the prayer the عورة is in the صلاة not outside the صلاة for the man the woman has a عورة within the prayer and عورة outside the prayer okay that's one categorization of عورة there's another categorization of عورة which is known as عورة to ستر and عورة to نظر عورة to ستر means there is an amount that has has to be covered from a woman whether it's a فتنة or not it doesn't matter بغضب نظر if it's a فتنة or not okay it doesn't matter whether it's فتنة or not for example an elderly woman who's reached 90 she her body parts can't be seen her breasts can't be seen even if they if no one even if the person feels like I'm not going to be attractive if she walked naked around me I wouldn't feel like or she's gone through a surgery or may Allah protect us but you know and save us from it and cure those who've gone through it or she's she's been burnt or something like that أفاني الله وإياكم and she's lost يعني attraction for instance I'm just trying to give an example okay I'm not in any way offending anyone I hope it doesn't get taken out of context in that situation that woman still not allowed to walk around naked just to still cover herself you understand my point so some people they think the concept of عورة is always connected to شاها فتنة and that's what you said you do you understand my point the men who are wearing clothing if they're causing فتنة يعني there's some men I'm sorry I'm saying your reasoning from the آية is that it's purer for the hearts of the believing men and women that they covered that's your reasoning yeah so I'm saying a slave go so I'm saying purify in the hearts of people so it doesn't cause إشو شاها and desires the man's heart yeah that's your reasoning that's my but I'm not saying for all types of حجاب my point I want you to understand all types of آورة I'm not saying that that's what it is we're talking about the face specifically and this is what our discussion is about so that's what I'm saying to you the face is first of all two things the women the the نقاب has been made obligatory for them this is not my only I've got many other proofs to mention to prove my point but this one you and I both agreed that the wives of the process are assembly to cover up we do with true or false yeah because it clearly says that because it's clear this verse is the I used to say that the wives of the process are assembly to cover their faces okay but the I mentioned a reason why it was prescribed for the prophets wives because pure for them and pure for the men so if you any argument you bring against me to say to me that this آية I won't take it as as a نقاب and it's not approved for نقاب then that means you have to strip it from the prophets wife from having not necessarily because it depends this آية we both agree specifically addressing the wives of the prophet so we agree on that they have to cover the face now you're saying this something you're saying I agree that the prophets wives and yeah yeah now you're saying something that I'm not and you're saying that the reason given for that is actually should be extrapolated it's pure for them and it's pure for the believing men therefore it should be extrapolated to all women I'm saying if that's the case and if that's what that's the case then it's it should be applied to slave women as well because it's pure for them and pure for the believing men not to see slave women's faces and someone could even say someone could even take it as far as in the 21st century men are attracted to men so why don't we cover the face of a man I mean that's an extreme case but the slave girl I think is a valid one I'm saying to you again that آية looks at the context that he came down and not only does that we don't have that today so that's why we don't feel that connection on the issue of slavery we don't have that issue so we we're not going to talk about something we don't have but of course we talk about the ruling on slavery of course it's just a part I am I am I'm just trying to say to you we can't speak about how the people's desires would be towards a slave because we don't have that situation right now you wouldn't be able to to to speak about that a slave is a woman right I'm saying to you when that concept comes about by default there's no شهور that comes from the men towards it generally speaking a female slave I'm telling to you a woman a woman that fitna is not there according to the reality because look okay I know I know many brothers who are upper class for example well this is this is what shows upper class upper class they're rich they're really really rich got money upper class and when a lower class or a middle class girl comes up to them they have nothing to offer like comes to her or and whatnot any for marriage or this or that you will never even consider it you'll say I'm sorry I can't I can't do it there's two things I'll say first of all when you see someone on the street you don't necessarily know if they're a slave or not you've just seen their face you don't know you can't tell whether they're a slave or not the second thing is you're going to get yourself in trouble because the حديث of the خذ عمية which we're going to discuss later I'm sure that you believe that I was a slave girl and fathered him in Abbas which again we're going to come to later was attracted to her didn't say it was attractive but he just looked out he said the beauty attracted him and the process we'll speak about it we'll speak about the way we'll come to that Insha'Allah but I just find it hard for you to say I really find it difficult to accept like be cool with yourself I find it difficult to accept for you to say that nobody can be attracted to a female slave girl when she's got the bodies or woman she's got a face of a woman I'm sure people can be attracted to that and if that's the case then she should fall into this as well that's my argument but إجماة took it out there's an إجماة by the way I'm saying okay but how can an إجماة take out something that's so clear from an آية you're saying the آية is saying put it in and إجماة took it out how does that make sense the إجماة don't disagree إجماة is a delil itself because it's not it's a delil no problem but as is the Quran yeah so that's what I'm trying to say to you is that the إجماة the unanimous agreement that the إيمات the slave is not like the حلائر is that مسألة إجماعية like the حكامة شريعة are not the same for them the slave and the free woman it's not the same no I agree like the نقاب is not the same but many حكامs are not just not just that but many other rulings are not the same for free slaves are not okay the last argument about this verse which isn't really a strong one but it's worth mentioning anyway is this is really talking about inside the house and many people argue and it's a quote from شخصان يبن تي مي as well as مجموع that this is referring to women inside the house when they're not wearing the خيماء they're not wearing any you know loose clothing so of course you have to speak to them behind the veil as for applying this outside of the house what makes you do that so then do you believe that نقاب needs to be worn in the house no I'm with you on this one I'm just saying I'm bringing the argument but I think it's worth explaining to the people yeah so this this one if it supports us to be honest it's actually really good for us we can actually say okay no problem وإذا سلتمون متاعن فسألوه نمين وراء حجاب ذلك ذلكم أطهروا لقلوبك وقلوبه بهنا it's in the house شخصان تي مي رحمه الله mention by the way it's not the only one who mention that but let's take that quote and say this is regarding the house شخصان تي مي use the other either I'm going to use later يا إينا بيقول أزواجيك وبناتك ونساء الممينين يودينين عليه نمين جلا بي بهنا for outside so we're not in any issue one we're going to use it for outside and one evidence we're going to use it for inside the house so if you say that وإذا سلتمون متاعن is referring to the house no problem in the house you have to wear a niqab and outside the house you have to wear niqab based on another other either no problem so another thing is that does it not make more sense to wear niqab outside than in the house for example I suppose it makes the same sense if you're inside the house and you've got a non-machlum coming obviously no one's talking about when the niqab inside the house when there's no one else inside the house with that even the eye is not talking that and I'm sure you're but wait a minute my foot with the eye is not talking about that but the woman she'll never be alone with a man in the house anyways I'm saying the husband for example no we're not doing like that but we're saying when a woman's in the house she's going to be with her محارب because then no one man can enter onto a house okay perfect so her having to stay at home with her husband for example you're saying this eye shows that she still has to cover herself no I'm saying if someone comes to ask a question like that I clearly says so someone you for example you have a daughter she's عالمة عالمة and then men come to ask her questions about Islam of course either you're going to be home or a husband's going to be home okay correct now because no other ياكمة دخول على النساء you know when I yeah I'm with you so this time where she's in her house protected yes secondly she's got her محرم around yes are you there yeah you're telling her that she needs to wear نقاب whereas outside when she's not protected in her own household she's out in the open two she doesn't have محرم around her because she doesn't have to yeah you're saying that she doesn't have to wear نقاب I'm saying those who say that yeah yeah yeah yes I agree it's not not sure I'm but it's worth mentioning okay what's the second eye that you're going to bring up to or or حديث that you're going to bring as a proof that the نقاب is وجه so the statement of Allah سبحانه و تعاله when he says يا ايو النبي قلي أزواجك و بل و بناتك و نساء المؤمنين يدينينا عليهم من جلابي بهنا ذلك ادنا يعرفنا فلا يودين و كان الله غفور الرحيمة so this آية الله سيزياء النبي or Prophet of Allah قلي أزواجك say to your wives و بناتك and your daughters و نساء المؤمنين and the believing women يدينينا عليهم من جلابي بهنا that you place over yourselves your jilbabs ذلك أضحاء ذلك ادنا أن يعرفنا فلا يودين and this is of course going to be a means and a way for the woman not to be harmed right و كان الله غفور الرحيمة and barely الله is one who is forgiving and merciful to his creation عبد الله بن عبس رضي الله تعالى عنه و من الله بي pleased with him and he's considered to be from the صحابي which is noble عريبنا عبد الله بن عبس رضي الله تعالى عنه he said أمر الله commanded نساء المؤمنين إذا خرجنا من بيوته في حاجة أن يغطينا وجوها من فوق رؤوسه بالجلابيبي و يبدينا عينا وحدا ابن عبس رضي الله تعالى عنه ماهي سر that الله سبحانه وتعالى he commanded the believing women that if they leave their houses for a reason you will give them وجوها هندا they cover their faces من فوق رؤوس from above their heads بالجلابيبي with the jilbab now this is very powerful point that I want إن شاء الله تعالى to be taken on board which is ابن عبس saying الله commanded أمر الله نساء المؤمنين this statement of ابن عبس رضي الله تعالى عنه shows that the آية يودينينا عليهنا من جلابيبيهنا that the وجلباب proves in my إن شاء الله كيس that the jilbab is something a woman needs to cover her face with the تفسير الصحابي is a proof especially some scholars say that the some of them they say that the تفسير الصحابي له حكم الرفعي it can be considered مرفوع because how can this صحابي just talk about the Qur'an with no evidence for it الله says ولا تقول لي ما تصف ألسينا تكمل كذب هذا حلال واده حرام لي تفتروا على الله الجذب إن الذين يفترون على الله الكذب لا يفلحون أما الله أصول سيزن هذا آية هي سيس سبحانه وتعالى ولا تبقون كالذين و الله أصول سيزن هذا آية إنما إنما إنما إنما حرام ربي الفواحش بعض حرى منها وما بطانا ولإثم والبغية بغير الحق وأن تشركوا بالله ما لم ينزل به سلطانا وأن تقولوا على الله ما لا تعلمون لا يتحدث about الله with no knowledge يجب أن تصف أنا صحابي ونأخذ أجرأه والكل من أهلي المناحين أربعة يقولوا لا أدري فكون متبعة لذلك يتحدث with knowledge أنه يتحدث على القرآن with no proof or no evidence عبدالله أبس ونقومت بأخر ذلك يتحدث أمر الله ونساء المؤمنين إذا خرجنا من بيوتهنا في حاجة أن يغطينا وجوها هن من فوق رؤوسين بالجلبيبي سبحافوا يبدين عينا وحدا أوصا أو ماذا عايش رضي الله تعالى عنها إذا في الإنجليس ماذا ماذا يتحدث عنها هل أنت تعالى أيضا أو ماذا عايش رضي الله عنها أنها أوصا يتحدث أنها تسد المرأة جلبابها من فوق رأسها على وجهها أنها تقول that the woman she covers herself with her jilbab from above her head to her face عايش رضي الله عنها she said to stealu المرأة to stealu المرأة the woman she does saddle جلبابهاها جلباب من فوق رأسها from above her head على وجهها on her face أم سلام رضي الله إتعالى عنها may Allah be pleased with her the wife of the prophet she said لما نزلت هذه الآية when this verse came down يدينينا عليها من جلابي بهنا he said خارجا نساء الأنصاري the women of the answer came out كأننا على رؤوسهنا الغربان it was like that their faces يعني their heads sorry it was like a crow غربان is the غراب من السكينة like tranquility وعليهن أكيسة تنسوه دنيا البسنها and they were wearing cloths that were black so here what we realize is that these women they came out pitch black محمد ابن سيرين he said سألتُ I asked عبيدة السلماني عبيدة السلماني is a tabi'i and he's a tabi'i كبير as the Imam ابن حجر رحم الله mentioned that he's a tabi'i كبير and he lived in two eras he lived in two eras meaning he أسلم قبل وفاته النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم سنة تين he lived two years before the Prophet passed away عليه السلام ولي ذلك ألمان ويذهبيه رحمه الله he mentions that he took from عبيد ابن طالب and he took from عبدالله من المسعودين and he took from عبدالله من الزمير he took from senior companions عبيدة السلماني so he's a nobu tabi'i that he said when he came to the ayah يدنينا عليهن من جلابي بهنه he said فغطة واجهه ورأسه and he covered his face and his head وأبرز عينه اليسرة and he showed one of his eyes so the wedge الباب from this we take is it's a cloth above the khimar okay which covers the woman's entire body okay قرطة وي mentions قرطة وي passed away 600 and what 71 he said وصحيح what is correct is أنه الثوب اللذي يستر جميع البدا he said that يلباب the strongest is that it's a cloth on his clothing that covers the entire body of the woman ابن حزمن رحمه الله he says هو ما غطة جميع الجسم لا بعضه that the word جلباب is what whatever was the entire body of the woman not part of it so it's placed on the head and then it covers the face from there okay نعم the a couple of questions so you may this last point yeah go ahead this one last point I want to mention in that as well our mother عائشة رضي الله تعالى عناه and this proves that the جلباب is something that's placed on the head you can cover the face with it and you can put it back up if you want to okay our mother in حديثة الإفكي صفواني بن المعطل was a noble companion رضي الله تعالى عنه he said مع عائشة said فعرفني حين رآني when he saw me he recognized me وكان رآني قبل الحجاب he saw me before the آية الحجاب came down before the آية came down yeah he رضي الله عنه used to know me فاستي قضت باستي رجاعه حين عرفني and I woke up with his استي رجاع يعني إِنَّا لِلَّهِ وَإِنَّا إِلَيَ رَاجِعُونَ إِنَّا لِلَّهِ وَإِنَّا لَيَ رَاجِعُونَ when he said I woke up حين عرفني فخمرت وجهي بجلبابي جلباب was on top she said I covered my face straight away was on a head so she covered it on her face this is a تفسيري يون عملي يون في امتتالي قوله تعالى يديني علينا من جلابي بهنا she covered her face رمام ابن جليل الطابري he said Allah is saying to his prophet Muhammad يا ايوى النبي و the prophet of Allah قل لأزواديك say to your wives و بناتك and your daughters و نساء المؤمنين لا تشبهنا بالإيماء do not resum do not imitate the slave girls في لباسي هنا in their clothings إذا هن خرجنا when they leave out من بيوتهنا from their houses لحاجتهنا for you know their needs outside look what he said after that فكشفنا شعورهنا and you unveil your what your hair و وجوهاهنا and your faces ولكن يدنين عليهنا من جلابي بهنا but rather cover those two your hair and your face with the جلباب لألا يعرض لهم فاسدون so that a corrupt individual doesn't come to harm you إذا علم أنهنا حرائرا if he recognize that they are free women see there wasn't that fear for the إيماء because nobody would harm her like a free woman they would إذا علم أنهنا حرائرا بأدم من القولي نسفي also said the same thing he says يا إينا بيقول أزواجك و بناتك و نسائل المؤمنين يدينينا عليهنا من جلابي بهنا the word من إنه نسفي who died here seven hundred ten ten in julya he said the word من is lit upعيض because the word من comes as lit lit upعيض sometimes it also comes as بيان للجنس like the ayah و ننزل من القرآن ما هو شفعه he can't say it's طبعيض because the Qur'an all of it is a cure do you see so و من هي is lit upعيض ابن القي من شفعه إنه كتابة داء والدواء they و ننزل من القرآن ما هو شفعه من هي بيان للجنس also إن الذين كفروا من أهل الكتاب والمشركينة من أهل الكتاب هي is بيان للجنس is جنس it's not لتبعيض لكن هي يا إينا بيقول لأزواجك و بناتك و رسائل المؤمنين يدينينا عليهنة من جلابي بيهنة is لتبعيض some which shows أنه ترقي بعض جلبابها و فضله على وشيها some of it is covering the hair and then the rest of it she covers it with her face أبو حيان النحوي الأندلس يوديس 745 يجريا is a great scholar he says من في جلابي بيهنة لتبعيض و عليهنة شامل الجميع أجسادهنة أو عليهنة so the word عليهنة is a word that's used for شامل الجميع أجسادهنة he's a grammarian by the way أبو حيان he has a شلح on the alfiyah to the مالي great imam أبو حيان الأندلس إيماء شيخ ألسان إبنو تيمي they even debated on some issues إيمام في اللغة العربية okay he's the man by the way that's إبنو تيمي said to him I know matters of grammar that you'd and even even see بوهيت I don't know which أبو حيان loved إبنو تيمي before that but when he said that it put something his heart was إبنو تيمي أبو حيان الأندلس رحمة الله النحويه he mentions that منه is little بيض and then he said عليهنة means what شامل الجميع أجسادهنة it encompasses whole entire body أو عليهنة على وجوههنة their faces لأن اللدي كان يبدو منهنة في الجاهلية because that which used to show from pre-islamic time was what هو الوج who is the face okay قرطبي said something as well شيخ يخل سام تيمي also said same I don't know إبنو تيمي says few places أبو باكل الجصاص الحنف he also he also said the same سيوطي in his يعني his كتاب يعني I never read the كلام of سيوطي from سيوطي I read from عون المعبود سيوطي also says the same when he comes to يوديني عليهنة من جلابي بينا شيخ بحمد براهيم قال الشيخ also said the same thing about the آية that I mentioned شيخ بروباز mentioned the same that I mentioned from the آية so I can mention all of those goals but all of them are pointing to يوديني عليهنة من جلابي بيهنة that it means to the woman to cover her face so I want to know what you build what you know that they don't know these great advice so you're saying from this is for the people following at home this is again in سوطي لخزاب I saw number 33 I number 59 I think I 59 yeah okay so you're saying you'd a couple of questions actually just before I forget them so you believe that it's a واجب that the woman covers everything from her apart from one eye that's what ابن عباس so you believe that if she uncovers two eyes she's sinning ابن عباس رضي الله تعالى عنه أن عبيضة السلماني and both of them they mentioned covering one eye covering you know both eyes that يعني different views have been mentioned from them because you said the تفسير of her of her companion like ابن عباس is a خجة it's it is a خجة okay so it's a proof so we have to take everything from his statement we can't just take the fact that it covers a face we have to also say that it's covered the one eye as well so that's your position on the matter you believe that it's obligatory to cover one eye and if the woman has covers her face but she leaves two eyes open she's actually sinning no she's not sinning she's not so how can you say that this is a proof but then not take all of the proof that's something difficult for me to answer that you're right it's a good point الله أم باري it's actually a valid point and it's a good point before you شخ الساب الشيخ اللباني رحم الله قلت out okay لذلك كتابة رد المفهم he pointed that out that ابن عباس is قول which is يوبدينا عينا واحدا that a show one eye he said this statement of ابن عباس رضي الله تعالى by the way الشيخ اللباني went a few ways first of all the issue of علي ابن أبي طالحة which I think yeah he made it weak right he made the statement weak I thought you would point that out as well yeah I just thought of this one just as you were saying it so علي ابن أبي طالحة he said I didn't hear this from ابن عباس so the first point but he's from the students of ابن عباس علي ابن أبي طالحة just to show the authenticity and علي ابن أبي طالحة he heard from the تقات of the students of ابن عباس like مجاهد وعكريم and others so the scholars of علم الحديث they take علي ابن طالحة you know views from ابن عباس like ابن حجر mentions in his tarjama so it's used بقاري also when he uses the تفسير of ابن عباس he goes through علي ابن عبي طالحة so it's authentic ابن عباس did say this but the part that you pointed out which is where you بدين عينة واحدة the reason why I dot part of the statement of ابن عباس and also عبيضة تسلمانيه is because no other Imam you know what I mean is for example ابن جديد when he mentions it I mentioned قرطبي's كلام of course we scrutinize the statements that we bring when I looked at the statements of قرطبي for example that he mentions when I looked at for example the statement of او مدع عائشة ربه الله تعالى and what was mentioned from her ابو حيان الاندولسي قرطبي I'm trying to bring all of their views to bring us خلاصة none of them ever mentioned that issue of one eye showing and one eye not I mean it's good if the more she covers the better do you see my point but that doesn't seem consistent upon the views of the great scholars like ابو حيان when he mentioned قرطبي when he mentioned even شيخ الاسلام بيبنو تييميا they all mentioned just covering the face they will say covering the face so I haven't seen that from anyone other than those two calls that I brought okay and what is it from the eye that indicates covering the face you believe that the word جيل باب which is mentioned the eye is by default something that covers the face so yeah the word the word جيل باب means is a cloth فوق الخمار is above the خمار بمنزلة العباء it's like it takes the position of the عباء and it covers the entire body of the woman and I mentioned the call of قرطبي which is وصحيح عنده وثوب اللدي يسطور جبيع البد I don't know the husband who said هو ما غطى جميع جسم لا بعضه and the fact of عائشة الله علىش he said فخمارت وجهي بجلبابي so it's something that does cover the face and also the statements of the great scholars like أبو حيالي الاندلوسي which he said it means covers the face when he came to the world عليهنهيسر ايه على وجوهيهنه قرطبي وريسر as well رحمه الله و تعالى the قرطبي has a very powerful statement because he gives the context he said التبذل يعني the women's before Islam this is you know the eye comes down in a context it's trying to deal with a problem that that was there so we have to ask ourselves what were the women like before this eye came down قرطبي mentions with idea 671 هجرية he's a great مفصر he has a تفسير قرآن بوك he's راضي his كتابين تفسير is one of the strongest books when it comes to حكام القرآن in the 14th volume in تفسير of this eye ايه نبي قوله ازواجيكه he said لما كانت عادة العربياتي التبذل وكن يكشفنا وجوها هن كما يفعلوا الاماة the women's before them used to show their faces like the slave girls وكان ذلك دعية إلى نظر الرجالي I used to call them men to to look at the women إلهينا وتشعب الفكرة فيهنا and the men would be preoccupied by looking at them أمر رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم أمر الله رسوله أمر الله رسوله الله commanded his prophet أن يأمر هن to command these women بإرخاء الجلابي عليهنا that they place the jilbab on themselves إذا أردنا الخروج إلى حوائي جهنه we just mentioned that their faces were showing he pointed out قرط لي and then he said the jilbab was sent down for that reason to cover all of that شيخ الإسلامي ابن تيميه even mentioned that he said قبل أن تنزل آية الحجام before this eye came down كان النساء يخرج now the women would leave بلا جلباب without jilbab يرى الرجل أمان وتي واجهها ويدها her face and hands these were things that were happening and then this eye came down يأيه نبي قوله أزراجك وبلاتك ونسائل ومنين يدينينا عليهنا من جلابي بيهنا you know when you read تفسير بكس it's important that you go to especially when this issue is a حكم it's أحكام عملية right it's a tricky issue is right I was generally go to the books of أحكام القرآن and I'm finding that أحكام القرآن it's just nearly يعني some of them are even taking words from each other أبو بكر الجصاص was a Hanafi when he came to the آية he says it's also أحكام القرآن بكس he says في هذه الآية دلالة على أن المرأة الشاب the woman the youth معمورة بستحر وجهها but she's كماني تخفرها فيس عن الأجنبيين from the foreign men وإضحار السطري والعفافة عند الخروج لأن لا يطمع أهل الريبي فيها so the women who have rape doubts and sickness in their hearts don't have desires towards them سيوتي is الشافعي great scholar of the شافعي مدهب okay he mentions يدني علينا من جلابي بيهنا he said هذه آية الحجاب في حق سائر النسائفها وجوب ستر الرأس والوشي عليهنا yeah i don't think there's a dispute that there are many scholars from all different disciplines whether محديثون مفاسترون i interpret this آية meaning to cover the face i don't think that's after a dispute i think the other side would also say that there's scholars on the i don't know if you've come across this or not but scholars who haven't gone as far as saying to cover the face with this particular آية did you come across any statements like that from the other side that same from the other side for example شيخ ناصر رحم الله bring some some quotes here or there he even mentioned the abbas he does yeah so that's what that's what i've got written down here where he's got authentically transmitted from ibn abbas she should bring the jilbab close to her face without covering it yeah first of all that statement اليمامه abu daoud narrated in his مسائل from ibn abbas yeah yeah correct so abu daoud narrated in his from اليمامه احمد sorry اليمامه the sahabi جليل عبدل عبدل عباس two points number one where did abu daoud bring this under what Şابتر when and belong or what part of what section did he bring it up under he blew it under the chapter of what is the woman wearing that's the issue we're gonna come to إن ج� الله إي شام��ه إي yeah yeah the woman is she's not allowed to be in a car in the state of إي referring and she's not allowed to be gloves in the state of احرام we're gonna come to the الس기로ع regarding Our Insha' Allah life the podcastRI بيائس رضي الله يضع العباس وعيقا يقول تُدني الجلباب إلا ويتشيها ولا تضرب بها يضع لها الجلباب تُدني الجلباب ويتشيها إلى فيس و الا تضرب بها ابرا عباس يتُوقف يحالة الحج كيف بالنقاب؟ كيف ينقاب نقاب؟ هذا ما ابرا عباس يتحدث عنه روح يتكلم عنه مفاوح ابرا عباس يعني كيف does she do it then؟ كيف تفعلها فيس؟ ابرا عباس ويقول سيضعه بيا Twitter يقول روح يتكلم عنه روح قلت to him وما لا تضربه وربا she doesn't throw over her face فأشارة إليه he pointed towards كمالي جوليب المرأة ثم أشارة إلى ما خدها she takes it from her side and she does it like this she's wearing a cap she just covers it from the side of her corner she just covers her jilbab قال تغطيه she covers that with it or over her face هوا مزدولون على which she covers it يعني بلعب باسي is talking about a hedge من أمانة العلمية from the perspective شغل باني weakens this based on calling it shahd لكن that's far-fetched calling that what? because shahd means مخالفة تسيقه and the word jilbab itself it's something that you said goes on the top and then covers the entire body like this but there can be something that lifts up like this I'm trying to understand does it mean that if you're wearing a jilbab by default you're definitely covering your face or not yeah jilbab you can remove it it's stuck to your jilbab it comes down from the head you want you can remove it to put it up the woman can't be without it the woman can't be without it so it could happen that she puts it off like our mother Iisha did so in the ayah itself because obviously it doesn't mention face in the ayah it says that's where it comes in as I mentioned in the Hayan statement he said and obviously general all of them and for someone to actually exclude face then they have to bring the proof of that let me just see what I have written on this one can I point out a contention as well you said before that the Prophet's wives have to wear it right they have to cover their faces yeah you're going to be called aswajika was mentioned first okay وبناتك are your daughters ونسائل مؤمنين is that not a clear indication that the statement is not a clear indication that the ayah you denyna it means because the kareena here is called aswajika say to your wives and we really took that the wives of the Prophet have to cover their faces and there's no nizab by the way between the scholars this is not disputed that the wives of the Prophet she doesn't disagree with that I think what a lot of people think who don't believe in aswajib they think that jilbab is something that covers like the bodies of the government but not necessarily the face okay I'm just conscious of time so I'm happy to move on to another point so you're saying my point wasn't valid you're just I'm not saying your point wasn't valid I think it's a strong point but I'm also just conscious of time so we've got a lot of these points to get to your point you're bringing the proofs I'm happy to stop carrying the next point yeah the next point is another point I have to try before we do that let's just summarize the proofs because one thing I'm trying to do is at the end of each proof just summarize it you're right it's important to do that the first ayah because we didn't actually summarize that one which is and you're talking about that the wives of the Prophet being addressed in this ayah they're clearly told to cover their face and we agree both parties actually agree that the wives do have to cover their face as a result of this ayah the reason for that is given that it's pure for their hearts and hearts that believe in men and obviously your argument is that if it's pure for them whose hearts were already pure than ours then surely it means it for us as well the contention from the other side is that we don't have the statement of the Prophet saying by the way my companions this applies to all women we also don't have a statement of a companion saying that this is actually how I understood the ayah and also that the fact that the ayah itself is talking about rules and regulations specific to the wives of the Prophet it's a bit of a stretch to then take it out to everyone just based on that one ayah alone the second ayah is also this is the second proof you brought forward ayah number 59 and the part of the ayah which is you're saying that this is understood by like you've almost bought an ajma almost bought an ajma but by so many people that the jilbab is something that is placed on top of the khimar on top of the head top of the head and it's brought down and there's nothing there that says although the ayah doesn't specifically say face it's actually the proof for the people who want to exclude the face they have to bring it because the jilbab is from here all the way down and we did bring a statement from ibn Abbas saying that it means to bring it close to the face but not putting it over the face but you said that was in which there is an exception for which again we're insha'Allah going to get onto ورق الله فيك so my third evidence insha'Allah is the statement of Allah وَلَ يُبِدِينَ زِيلَتَهُنَّ إِلَّا مَظَهَرَ مِنْهَا and the second evidence from the ayah is الله تبارك وتعالى is prohibiting the women from what يبدا إزينة هنا to bring out their beauty for other than their محارم because the ayah إلا ما ظهر منها وليضربنا بخموره على جيوبنا it mentions the women the people she can't show it to so this ayah الله is saying to the women do not bring out into public your beauty for other than your what your محارم okay except that which except that which comes out إلا ما ظهر منها like كضاهرية like the outer of the clothing whether sometimes the women's parts might be seen because of the clothes sticking to her or something like that and I want to use this part strong because إلا ما ظهر منها is abused except that which happens to be out in يعني that which becomes a what would be the best translation إلا ما ظهر منها what is just made what is a parent what is a kind of what is a parent so what's a parent here doesn't say the ayah doesn't it did not say إلا ما ظهرنا منها what she has made a parent because if you say the other tafsir that the face in the hand is what is what is referring to you're in trouble because you're saying that she made because the woman she's leaving the house who's showing her face and her hands she's making those things appear لكن إلا ما ظهر منها means it happens to be like that you know she's not doing it okay let me just simplify just for the people so for them to follow at home this is an ayah in surat al-noor surat number 24 ayah number 31 and there's many parts that I suppose you're going to pick from this ayah but the one you spoke focusing on right now is إلا ما ظهر منها and it's a command not to for the women not to display the zina إلا ما ظهر منها this is a bit you're focusing on right now except what is made apparent and you're saying that what is made apparent is like a woman is walking she's covered up but the wind is blowing and it kind of closed just to show her outline or something she can't help that she's excused for that okay أنا ابن كثير رحم الله point that out he said يوثيابي so the women لا يوظهرنا شيء they cannot bring out anything منزينة from the beauty ليل أجالب in front of them look at ابن كثير when he said he says لا يوظهرنا means she's doing it it's important ظهرات doesn't mean it comes out by itself it's not something you did okay so she's not allowed to do that from the beauty from the ajarib except that which لا يمكنوا اخفاء and she can't hide it قال ابن مسؤولة رضي الله ابن مسؤولة and he said like the lower and the upper garment or something from a pot her body shows she's trying to pick up something and her hand shows for example or يعني the wind sticks an cloth to her what you can tell even if a woman wears the biggest hijab everything she covers you can tell how short she is how short she is you can tell her weight, her size everything can be seen that's not upon her she doesn't have to worry okay so the fact that Allah used إلا ما ظاهرة shows it's something that happens by itself not something that woman does to herself and it's important for me because there's another تفسير of إبن عباس which you're probably going to bring where he says that إلا ما ظاهرة means and that can't be the case because it says إلا ما ظاهرة it didn't say that's one important important point I want to mention again إلا ما ظاهرة منها that which becomes apparent from the her beauty the zina is mentioned okay now because I want to say إلا ما ظاهرة منها don't bring out your beauty إلا ما ظاهرة منها except that which becomes apparent from it now I looked at the zina in the Quran okay because the Quran يفسر بعضه بعضا I went and looked at the Quran I went and looked at the Quran I went and looked at the Quran I went and looked at the Quran I found that I found that the view that the view is strong that the view is strong and this is not ترجيح بغير مرجح because ترجيح بغير مرجح and this is not ترجيح بغير مرجح I'm not being dictated here ترجيح بغير مرجح because he is in line with my view right I'm choosing it بغير مرجح because he's got two things that are supporting him إلا ما ظاهرة supports him in the Masoud the second thing that supports him in the Masoud is the word zina that's used in the Quran the word zina in the Quran refers to the outer beauty never there's two beauties there's the outer beauty and the inner beauty the inner beauty is a woman's face her body parts that's her inner beauty that's a beauty that doesn't detach itself from her okay but the beauty which is ظاهر is the outer beauty the Quran speaks about beauty the word zina as always generally speaking the outer beauty قال تعالى الله it says يا بني آدم اخدو زينتكم عندكم للمسجد the word zina here means clothes because of what the I came that إبن عباسن he said يا بني آدم اخدو زينتكم إبن عباسن he said كان رجاء كان رجال يطوفون بالبيتي يجوتوا فا راين the كعبة ناكد فأمرهموا الله الله كمانددهم بالزينة والزينة اللي باسوا and the zina they were told they were naked they used to go around the كعبة ناكد صلى الله عليه وسلم يا بني آدم اخدو زينتكم إي لباسكم that you're clothing okay صلى الله عليه وسلم القرآن قل من حرما زينة الله التي أخرج عباده والطيبات من الرسق زينة here ناون will make haram some of this actual beauty قال تعالى وما أوتيتوا من شيء فمتاعوا حياة الدنيا وزينتها والخيلة والبيغالة والحميرة لتركبوها وزينة اللي منتظر the horses the mules the donkeys اللي منتظر why did he make it so you can mount on it وزينة and beauty again it's out of beauty قال تعالى فخرج على قومه في زينته when Allah was talking about نبي الله موسى قارون when Allah was talking about قارون he said فخرج على قومه في زينته he came out with his beauty his rich, his money, his wealth out of beauty وصلى الله عليه وسلم he says another ayah in the same صورة النور الله says ولا يضربنا بخمروهن على جيوبهن same ayah no الله says ولا يضربنا بأرجوهن ليعلم ما يخفين من زينتهن صورة النور yeah same ayah same ayah same ayah ولا يضربنا بخمروهن ولا يضربنا بأرجوهن ليعلم ما يخفين من زينتهن ما يخفين من زينتهن means what when they are hiding from their beauty it means the the gold that the women used to put on their legs when they walk and the sound that it makes will catch the men's attention so from there we take that the ayah is talking about what do not bring do not make your ولا يبدين زينتهن do not make your beauties out except that which happens to be what in the open so Allah is commanding the women to cover themselves cover themselves fully يبنو مسؤول it seems strong okay there's a third time the zina is mentioned in the same ayah okay just straight after like ولا يضربنا بخمروهن ولا يبدين زينتهن إلا and then it gives the exceptions that you can review this is also talking about clothing yeah this is also talking about clothing so when Allah says do not expose your zina except to your father's and your husband's now we say that the beauty of the beauties is two types with the ظاهر and the باطن okay those two are mentioned in the Qur'an زينة which is ظاهرة the apparent and the hidden the hidden beauty so you're when you take off your clothes that's the beauty Allah gave you سبحانه وتعالى your body part all your limbs that's the beauty your لحي your face your eyebrows your nose everything it's a beauty is a zina when you look at the Qur'an when you look at the zina even though if you bring me an eye here there's no problem but the overwhelming majority of the time عرف القرآن the way that the Qur'an refers to زينة as the outer layer something that person uses to beautify themselves but there are times where زينة is also mentioned by the inner layer we would say that of course so to know I am 60 later on this gives the exception for the elderly woman she's able to expose her face right yeah she's allowed to yes okay so what I'm trying to get at is just because the Qur'an in the majority of times زينة refers to one thing doesn't mean it always does and that's important because this that's one thing that's worth noting however you do this something else which is and I think it's important I don't want to get too technical in Arabic but the difference and for example is something that just kind of comes out without you intending it I suppose the best way is something that ادهراء is something that you intend to bring it out and the reason why it's important is because you're saying the woman who wears a jilbab but without covering her face she doesn't have any قب she intends that when she's in her house she intends to not she intends to show her face when she's in her house she's getting ready she wants to show her face before she goes out and that's why you're saying ادهراء was not used here therefore it can't mean the face and you mentioned مسعود was with you on this as one companion however as I'm sure you're aware the other side to say that ادهراء means the face and the hands there's there's there's there's there's there's there's which are very noble as well they didn't see this in the Arabic language that you did as I mentioned to you the issue of رضي الله تعالى عنه and ابن عباس and ابن عمر and as you mentioned العلام محمد امين الشانقيطي has a call on the issue of ابن مسعود وقول ابن عباس he says اظهر القولين those two views the most apparent call المذكوريني من عندي from me he says قول ابن مسعود رضي الله تعالى عنه ان زينة الظاهرة هي ما لا يستلزم النظر إليها رؤية شيء من بدني المرأة الأجلبية that the زينة ويش الظاهرة ما لا يستلزم النظر إليها it's not something that necessitates a person to look at okay وإنما قلنا هذا القول هو الأظهر the reason why we've chosen his view he says is because لأنه هو أحوط الأقوال first of all it's the safest of the parts وأبعدها عن أسباب الفتنة it's the most distance from fitnah وأطحرو هل قلوب الرجال والنساء and he's also the best that purifies the men and women's hearts ولا يخفى and also what is not hidden is أن وجه المرأة هو أصل جمالها ورؤيته من أعظم أسباب الفتنة and the face again is one of the greatest things that causes a woman يعني a fitna for a woman the face yeah we agree with that a woman can have every part of her body can be the most beautiful if her man does not find a man does not find her face attractive يعني every single thing he will not look at that's the first thing he wants to see first that's where he determines and it's there are many men who marry a woman who doesn't have any other beauty anywhere else just her face yeah okay so the thing that causes the greatest fitna for the شارع to dismiss that you know محمد مين الشقيق تسين that is first of all and these are by the way yeah but I think that's important to know because again we're going back to the argument and this is normally tends to happen when people use these arguments is because they haven't got any سريحة from the Quran of the Sunnah they actually have to bring the fitna argument so if you turn back on them and say that the most attractive part of a man to a woman is also his face but it doesn't mean that a man has to cover his face we would never use that and nobody's ever argued that so this kind of argument I need something from the Quran of the Sunnah which of course that's what you're bringing and that's what we're here to discuss but I don't like this relying slowly on this argument alone the Scottish have looked at the statements of the women by the way this issue is not majority or minority even Omar as well he has two companions here yeah about I don't remember the authenticity of Omar I don't know but I know Ibn Abbas and I know that is mentioned a lot even though Omar I don't remember the authenticity of it so I'll suspend my agreement on that but I do agree with you Ibn Abbas صحيح that he did say that but I said to you we can't just take it merely because of a companion saying it that's not that's not how you said but I said to you even you can challenge the statement of a companion yeah but with another companion okay I have here Ibn Mas'ud standing here and I have here Ibn Abbas standing here you're right my heart is already automatically going to lead towards Ibn Abbas because he's Imamah he's knowledge of the تفسير of the Quran I'm not sure I don't want to be fair Ibn Abbas has a lenience not even that just students as well the whole the whole مدرسة أهل المكة the movement of Ibn Abbas how do we give that our hearts more towards that لشق okay with that being said though Ibn Mas'ud here has external evidences that support him that's my point Ibn Mas'ud has external points out إلا ما ظهر منها the word زينة be يعني overwhelming parts of the Quran using it in that way and that's the grounds that the school is used to strengthen Ibn Mas'ud over Ibn Abbas they strengthen it on that particular Ibn Abbas who's an Innah من تفسير رحمه الله متعالا is there another way of taking ظهر منها إلا ما ظهر منها not really saying that which is intentionally revealed and unintentionally revealed but more also from the angle of that it was just normally usually apparent like you said at the time that these ayat were coming down the women at that time did used to cover did used to reveal their faces right that was the context of these ayat إلا ما ظهر منها except what normally appears from you except that which but then this this action of theirs of coming out of their houses and not wearing their face cover is something not ظهر منها او ظهر منها that's what they did no if you look it from one angle the angle you're looking at which is intention they intended to reveal their face and the other one is they didn't intend it just came out I agree with you but I'm saying ظهر in Arabic can also be used to say that which normally appears so for example by the time that this ayat was coming down normally the women were covered but they would have but they appeared from their face they made it appear from their face that's my point I'm with you but ظهر itself can also mean what normally appears as in this is the way you guys have found like this what your custom is at this time at the time that ayat was revealed إلا ما ظهر منها بهذا تركيب إلا ما ظهر منها means that which becomes apparent from her not what she makes apparent okay and that's where so إبنو مسعود شغل سام تيميسر فإذا كنا معمورات بالجلبات وهو سطر الوجه أو سطر الوجه بالنقاب كان الوجه وليدان من الزينة التي أمرت ألا تظهر للأجانب how for a point again إبنو مسعود يعني pushing a view of إبنو مسعود رضي الله تعالى عنو we have also إبنو رجب الحمبلي إبنو رجب الحمبلي زي إيمام رجب الحمبلي إيمام المحق إذا كتاب فتحو الباري كتاب فتحو الباري إذا شلحو سحو البقاري by the way he called it فتحو الباري and that was what inspired إبنو حدر تقول إس كتاب فتحو الباري as well and was shocked in his time إبنو رجب الحمبلي didn't finish the explanation بقاري هيدائي لكتاب الجنهيس he died in the chapter of funeral so he mentions وقد كان قبل الحجابي before the hijab يظهنا بغير جلب the women would come out without wearing a jibab ويرام من المرأة which they see her face وكفها her hands وكان ذلك مع ظهرها منها من الزينا and that was what we used to become عبارة from their beauty يعني they used to bring out from their beauty ولا يبدين زيناتو إلا منها ثم أومنات ديش it was kamalid بستت الوشيها وكفها he says محمد الامن الشاقطي I mentioned to you who is safer both of them أبنو مسعود أبنو عباس this is not about safety because even my side will be saying that you should cover it encourages but when you're making something obligatory it's not just about safety you need the delil you need نفسوس الوحيين I don't just say it's safer it's there for this obligatory but this is a Shari'a I'm not to mention is that not obligatory for a person to say away from fitna okay is it not obligatory yeah it is okay is it not obligatory on a Muslim not to throw himself into destruction okay yeah no problem so then we're in the Qab so then tell women don't leave the house at all not even for a haja no that doesn't cause fitna of course it causes fitna if she doesn't wear hijab no it doesn't so you say that again she covers herself properly it doesn't cause fitna it causes fitna when she leaves the house without hijab إلا ما دخل منها that could cause fitna no it doesn't accident you veer from her body shape that could cause fitna إلا ما ندر منها نادر نادر لحكم له rare situations here or they were not talking about it an ideal situation where women are covered أخي I'll tell you something I rely hand like experience and I know Insha'Allah many sisters are watching in Egypt which is a bit of fitna that happens to women in here and there where Allah protect them where Allah protect our sisters whether they cover themselves or not we don't want harm for anyone we don't want harm for any sister where Allah protect them from any harm any injustice that's done towards them and it's never justified a man to rape a woman it's never justified why a man would sexually assault a woman where Allah protect our sisters but I remember SubhanAllah a group of sisters who in Egypt left the UK they went to Egypt and they went there to study okay and SubhanAllah they mentioned I'm not talking about one or two or three I'm talking about ample sisters they said when we go on the bus with our gloves and everything the guys in the bus get up for us and they let us sit here yeah yeah they they get up for that sister and let her sit down whenever a woman with jeans or something like that comes on guess what they do they all go next to her and they rub against her and Allah protect our sisters the point I'm trying to come to sister say that to you Wallahi I feel I'm telling you this I feel retreated differently because of the way I'm covered I'm not and no one's denying that but to make something obligatory you need a delay from the Quran and not nice heart woman stories or the opposite of heart woman stories the evidence were mentioned in this part yeah that's what I'd like to speak to but this would also add on we don't dismiss this point as well because our religion as Ibn Muhammad Amin who's an Imam in Mashallah حجج رحمة الله he resulted that in this discussion as well he brought it back home by pointing this out after he mentioned points I mentioned he mentioned that that أظهر القولين المذكورين عندي قوله بالمسعود and what was the reason he said because لأنه هو الأحواط الأكوالي وأبعدها عن أسباب الفتنة وأطهرها لقلوب الرجال والنساء ولا يخف that وجه المرأة هو أصل جمالها ورؤيته من أعظم أسباب الإفتان بها to face the most beautiful من المسعود لذكره هو مصطنة يتبعه القرآن يعني سأخبر لله أنك سأرى where do you ask what is the reason تستمر is a logical argument من المشاكل هو مجرد يدخل which I did mention إذا أسأل أخبرك مجرد بسعر تسأل إلى المرأة أحضر وغوثنا sings you So at the point, you should be drawn home to them حديث الناس بما يعرفون you وأتريدون اي قدب الله and the messenger لا كتب محدود كان حديث المجموعة و these people didn't understand اهلا كان لدي بعض فيترى So we bring in driving the point home to them to understand ابتعاد يعنى لأنه هو احواط الأكوال و أبعدوها عن أسباب الفتنة و أطحروها لخلوب الرجال والنساء. Okay. Okay. That's fair. Do you want to go on to the rest of the ayah? Now that's my third evidence. Okay. Let's go on to the fourth I think it is now. Yeah. The fourth evidence. Okay. Same ayah. Immediately after. So we have now with the word Can you translate that in English? So there's strike. Which I'll keep untranslated for now. They put the khimar over the jayb and again the plural of jayb but I want to keep the Arabic because that's going to be a discussion I assume. That's a blossom right? Yeah. It's like from here. We agree on that right? Yeah. From here like the jayb is like even out of pocket like so like this kind of shape. I know. So from here. And the khimar is headscarf. Yeah. Now we're going to have one. That's what I want to do. Exactly. Okay. The word khimar Okay. It's the singular. The word is singular. It's khumar. The plural is khumar. The plural. Sorry. The word is a jama'a of khimar. Sorry. Khimar is one. Yeah. Khumar is the plural. And it's taken from the word الخمر. Okay. It's funny. That's when I get scared. Yeah. It's taken from the word الخمر. And الخمر means at ستر وطغطية. Okay. That's why we use the word. So let's keep it in English. It's to conceal and to cover. Okay. That's why the word خمر is used. Because it covers the brain. Yeah. That's why alcohol is there. It's useful. Okay. Okay. So we agree that the word خمر is to conceal. It's to conceal. I'm with you on that so far. You have to give me an exception of why the face and hands are out of that. Because خمر in a general sense. No. We already agreed that the word في اللغة. But I'm going to go and shout it. I'm with you to conceal. I'm not going out. I'm not running away. I'm sitting right here. It means السترو. It means to conceal. To cover. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. السترو التغطية. It's to conceal. Yeah. And to hide. That's why we use خمر for خمر. لأنه تستر العقل وتغطيه. It covers the brain and the mind of the person. شرع عن is called ما تغطي به المرأة. It is what the woman covers. ها ها her face her neck and her blossoms. Do you believe that خمر covers the feet? What do you mean? Do you believe that خمر in a default sense? The word خمر خمر includes covering the toes? No. It doesn't, right? So that's what I'm saying. We agree it covers but we haven't discovered the word itself means to cover. It doesn't mean to cover the face. You're adding that. No, but that's the reason I'm telling you. It's close proximity the region in which the neck is. Yeah, no problem. I'm with you. It should cover. But look. Okay. Sorry. Okay. So the word خمر is to cover the face, the head. According to you. Yeah. What I'm saying is في اللغة we agree in the لغة in a language that the word خمر is to cover something. We both agree on that. Now we're discussing what it covers. You're saying it covers and Allah even said make it cover from the خمر to the جيب as well which is this area. This area. So we agree that it has to cover this area. So far we're here. But the head as well. We'll come to that. I'm just saying what we definitely agree on right now. So that's two things. We agree that it means to cover and we agree that we must cover this because Allah specifically mentioned the جيب. So the neck would Yeah. And that was no problem. So is the neck in there? Yeah. Where's the جيب? I'm not sure. Okay. Let's keep it hidden. Not the neck. I'm keeping what Allah only affirmed and I only what Allah negated. The third thing that we agree on is that it covers the head. Okay. We agree on that. Yeah. We agree on the head. Okay. My argument is that the position it's referring to a head cover and the reason why I'm saying that is because we have two حديث that prove that. The first one is أن البيئة صلى الله عليه وسلم مسحة على الخوفين sorry على الخوفين والخمار. Yeah. صح? Is that right? I can't remember the word مسحة النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم I don't want to get that. على الخوفين والخمار. So the prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم is saying in this he did مسح like when you're doing what you wipe over it مسحة على الخوفين على الخمار. Okay. So now the خوفين are the the socks. نعم. نعم. To check my memory. Just don't look at the rest of my notes. No. Okay. Okay. Okay. أن النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم مسحة على الخوفين والخمار. Okay. So the خوفين are the socks. خمار is the head cover. If you mean if you say the خمار by default covers the face as well. Are you saying the prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم had something over his face like in a carbony wiped over it. Okay. I don't agree with that. Okay. You mean الله مباري. So the word خمار you're saying that it's only restricted to that which is Not just restricted to I'm saying this default sense is default is the head cover by default. It's the head cover. There are other times we could be used for face I'm not denying that. Okay. I'm saying to you it's beautiful. So let's let's agree and then after that what do we say over there let's say this area How do you cover it over the face like that? You have many sisters who put it like this and they put it around like this and in fact the fact that Allah specifically didn't mention He actually left out the face intentionally. Okay. Let me just give you a word of a bonafide Imam. Okay. He died in the year 700 and 28 He said خمار Imam Imam He says تغط الرأس و الأل 시간 and the face and the consonant There are three things you have cover By default Okay. Our... Lets go into this one. Shaykh Busem He says خمار خمار He tells بق... آل will例ه something about the face and Erin where it starts from yeah and the blossom goes to ends too أيضاً هناك حديث يدعمه فاقطي ما بيدي الموضير الحديث حسناً يجب علينا أن نكون جميلة جميلة جميلة جميلة ما شاء الله فقط يظهر بأن خمار يدعم their head وفاقه يمتلك لا يتحدث لا يتحدث بأن الجميلة لا يستخدم لا، أنا معك أنا أقول بأن الجميلة يدعم their head يجب عليك أن تدعم الجميلة في الجميلة هذا ما نحن الآن فعلاً الجميلة يتحدث بأن الجميلة يدعم الجميلة يمكنك أن يمتلك لا يوجد problem حسناً where do we refer to this  Andre specifically we're not referring to the word خمار again بالنسبة لي اجتهده خمار هي ما تغطي به المرأة رأسها ووجها وعنوقها وجيبها and the burden of proof is on you for that ومن البردنه يدعمنا أمان أشاهدت إبنه تيميا منشل رحمه الله وطعاله إم تدعمته على وقت أفرح في نهاية 76 يقول أن الخمر هو الذي تغطي الرأس والواجه والعنوك look there's a hadith of Fatim binti المندر he said she said كنا نخمر وجوهنا we used to do خمار on our faces ونحن محرمات مع أسمى بنت أبي بكرين why else we were with أسمى بنت أبي بكرين ماليك narrated it in his موطع and he's a master of his مستدلك he authenticated it so did heb i rahme Allah أسقلانية الشافعي ibn we go back to his explanations of the ayat he said خمار covers the women her face he says the Arabs used to use it like that the pre Arabs used to use it like that and we go to the poetry not always though because we just bought the hadith of the prophet there's another hadith as well the prophet just mentioned that the prophet was worrying the خمار wiping over the خمار but we know he didn't wipe over his face he didn't have anything covering his face we know that but by the way you do believe that you don't have to do wiping over your entire you know you know according to the فقها you don't have to wipe over it's the مسألة فخية by the way you don't have to wipe over your head in its entirety you come do you wipe over some of your head and finish the rest of the خمار so that just shows that the prophet wiped on the part of the خمار even if you say that you would never ever say the one I'm trying to get at you would never say that the prophet someone actually had a face cover and he wiped over a face cover you wouldn't say that what do you mean you would never say that this حديث the one with the prophet someone doing مسأل over his خمار you would never say that the خمار is a face cover and he's wiping over it you wouldn't claim that would you no no no you wouldn't you would never say that so by default this حديث and another one that Allah doesn't accept the prayer no but you understood you only understood that the word خمار here doesn't cover the face for the prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم because that is men don't cover their faces that's a point that you and I both agree on the women's prayer as well no we're not saying that you're saying that the women they do cover their faces in what in the prayer no generally speaking women do no this one is حديث I'm going to go one after the other okay this حديث put it here for me which حديث you and I both here already know that the prophet's face will never show would you will never be covered yeah the prophet's face will never be covered because that's not what the men do men don't cover their faces correct by the way there is okay some statements that scholars mentioned about men covering their faces there's fitna we're not going to go into that okay so we know the prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم by default me and you that he's not what he's not صلى الله عليه وسلم going to cover his face but he did wear a حمار so he wore the حمار we've taken out the face out of the حمار because of what we know about a men not wearing a حمار I'm saying it's different I'm saying it's the other way round I'm not saying that I'm saying to you the حمار originally covers the face it covers the hair and the neck and the blossom everything but the reason why we we said okay the prophet is يعني not is because he is a male and we know men don't cover their faces that's why I'm taking it out the face so the second حديث لا يقبل الله صلى الله عليه وسلم إلا بحمار الله does not accept the prayer of an adult woman unless she's wearing a حمار you're saying by default that means covering the head the face the everything the chest everything you're saying that by default that's what it means yeah so again I'm saying to you this استعمال of the word حمار here means the لغة it means يعني unless she can't it's a شر and حديث yeah it is but sometimes الله uses the linguistic usage what makes you say it's linguistic what's your قرين let me just give an example الله تباركو تعالي أحد منهما تأبدا ولا تقم على قبره ولا تصلي على أحد منهما تأبدا صلاحية means the linguistic meaning it doesn't mean the شرق meaning okay it means a dua yeah so ولا تصلي على أحد منه ولا تدعو لهم don't make dua for the non-Muslims okay so it does happen sometimes the شريعة does use the linguistic okay but the default is not that we agree the default in the حديث in the ayat for Quran the شرق and meaning of the word is true so there's an exception right yeah but we agree the default so you have to be careful so here we're saying that this exception here is we have to we need to bring the taxes together I have the حديث فالطبيب منت المدر who's saying كنا نخمر وجوهنا والناحن محرمات مع اسماء بنت أمي بكرن what's the problem with that I don't understand why that happened it's just that we cover our faces with our khimar which it shows that the khimar can cover the face I've never said it can't cover the face ever ever then I'm not saying now also you believe the khimar it can okay I'm not saying it does it no I'm saying it can okay this حريت I'm gonna flip on you now the حريت of where the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم the woman who's reached the age of puberty that she has to pray with the khimar okay how do you know which one is whether she covers her face here or not the default is that it's a head covering no it's not that's in the language no it's not I'll give you statements from the from the one line of poetry okay go ahead he's كيف لم يتلهبي هي he says قلي المليحة في الخمار المذهبي we have the word الخماري and then he says نورو الخماري ونورو خدك خدك خدكي sorry تحته cheek underneath the khimar عجب اللي what cheek fascination is your face كيف يتلهب how it glows so he described that the khimar was on her face it's on her face I mean this is Arabic language yeah I'm not saying it can't be so my point is that the look عيش رضي الله عنها she said يرحم الله ونساء المهاجرات may Allah have mercy upon the women of I came down she said يرحم الله ونساء المهاجرات may Allah have mercy upon the women of انصار I'm sorry the women of مهاجرين she said نأرحم الله ونساء المهاجرات الأول لما انزل الله ونالله سندع وليضربنا بخمارين على على جيوبهن she said شققنا مروطهن they they ripped their cloths they ripped their cloths فاختمرنا بها فاختمرنا فاختمرنا حافظ المهاجر she said اي غطينا وجوهن I'm not saying حافظ المهاجر I'm saying وصيفة وذلك انتضع الخمار على رأسها وصيفة وذلك he explained to you what the خمار is he said وصيفة وذلك a great imam he said وصيفة وذلك انتضع الخمار على رأسها she placed خمارا نهر وترميه من الجانبي على الأي مني العاتقي الأيسري وهو التقنع شكافظة فيسلك وصولي سيز Okay, let me read you some statements here and see what you make of them So, the first is that خمار is like the imama the man covers his head with it and just as a woman covers her head with her خمار but you're not denying that she can cover the head you're saying the face included as well by default That's what you're saying, right? Okay, so this is what the scholars with varying specialties were upon from the people of Tefsir the Hadith Fiqh and the language from the early and the later times This is Shaykh Nasser in his book ايضا رد مفهوم باب الملطن باب الملطن He's the Karam al-Khasim And Lani is the man who is on the other side he's part of the discussion Of course Shaykh Nasser he's also on your side like there's always you have to be on one side or the other It's been made easy for me to come across words of more than 40 of them I mentioned the statement of research so you can see them in his book And I gather them all stating the head and not the face when defining the khimar He's mentioned ايضا رد مفهوم باب الملطن These are the people of Tefsir ايضا رد مفهوم ايضا رد مفهوم He even puts in here as well The scholars of Hadith ايضا رد مفهوم He's got 40 different scholars from all different disciplines who say that the khimar is covering the head and not the face We're not talking about this ayah by the way This ayah is a different discussion which you might Shaykh Nasser the issue of the discussion I've read his book امبل times He's a lot of the Muqtaba I've read it more than 10 times ستقن والله I did And just for this podcast I read it twice والله I did I downloaded it I read it I have the copies in my library in the UK But I downloaded it and I read it And I also read his جلباب المرات المسلمة once And you explained it as well it's online on YouTube as well Shaykh Nasser's usage of the kanam of these 40 imams I told you this before and you pointed out It's the عورة في الصلاة or the عورة to النظر The عورة to the Saturday Sorry You have to understand this issue حبيبي The عورة that Shaykh Nasser where he quotes these imams from is when they're in bay'a and they're buying and they're selling some of the Fuqa'a say she has to show her face so the buyer who's buying it from him he has to see her face in order to identify her or when she's getting married the guy can show her face يعني في هذه الحالات if you take the kanam of these imams and they speak about خمار يعني it's wrong we're talking about because they themselves some of the scholars that he met I saw the kanam of Ibn Taymiyyah Ibn Taymiyyah but it doesn't mean that they believe that خمار covers the face they could have a different deal to believe that I just mentioned the Ibn Taymiyyah الخومر و هي التي تغطر رأس و الواجه و العنق سيدي مجموعة الفتاة the 22nd volume page 76 يعني there's a difference when he mentions it generally speaking in a thick book life for example in the Salah if you just ask me now if the Hadith of the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم إذا بلغت المرأة الحيد if the woman reaches a hide that the Salah is except with the خمار of course I would say to you it's only the head it's not the face but you're saying that's not the default usage of the word exactly the chapter that Imam is speaking in و لذلك محمد الأميني شقيطي و أمجد قرامه ببنوك كثير إبنوه و حجر محمد الأميني شقيطي و هذا الحريث و صحيحه و صريحه في أن النساء صحابيات المتكورات يعني توقن about و يرحم النساء المهاجرات الأول ما شدأت لما أنزل الله و ليضربنا بخمارين على جو يوبهن شققنا مروطه و نفختمرنا بها إبنو أميني شقيطي محمد الأميني شقيطي و هذا الحديث صحيح في أن النساء صحابيات المتكورات فيه فهمنا أن معنا قوله تعالى من و ليضربنا بخمارين على جو يوبهن ياقتاضي ست روجهن و أنه الشققنا هذا هو الشققنا يجب عليك و أنت قلت أنه يضربه و يضربه لماذا يضربه ما معنى شققنا عندما يقول شققنا يضربه يضربه من أين من أعلى لا يضربون يضربون لأنهم لن يضربون هذا قبل أن يأتي و هذا how they reacted إلى الأعلى دعني دعني لأنه يقول شققنا يضربون يضربون لماذا يضربون و بعدما بخير يستعملون أحد يتضربوا يتضربون يتضربون و as a in من المتحب يجب عليها يجب عليها هؤلاء أحد يؤمن أن يتدري و أجمع بحق جدا و يتخمل أنك تأخذر كيف يتخل سيعمل لأنه يقول، وليَضْرِبِنَقْ، وليَضْرِبِنَقْ لِزَ أمرًا وَنَا أمرُ شَوْزْ أُبْلِيْكَيْشَنْ وَنَا عَاَيْزُهِنْ يَنْضِسُدِ أمرًا لِيْكَيْشَنْ أسأل لك، لكن أريد أن أقوم بشكل ما الذي يكون هذا المفترض الذي لا يوجد باستخدام العلم إبنو محمد المينشة القيطية يرسل له here وقال، فَلْعَجَبُوا كُلَّ اللَّعَجَبِ أسأل لك، محمد المينشة القيطية أسأل لك شيئاً، لما يدعي من المنتسبيل للعلومس المخصوص الذي يقوم باستخدام العلم الذي يقول أنه لم يريد في الكتابه ولا السنة لا يوجد أفرص في الكتابه أو السنة ما يدل على ستر المرأة وشهها لأن الشخص يقوم باستخدامها عن الأجادي من المجتمع مع أن الصحابيات بل المفترض الذي يمكننا أن نقول is that the صحابيات did this فعلنا ذلك ممتاتي لأمر الله فعلنا ذلك لتبقى المساعدة في الكتابه إيمانه في تنزيله تبقى المرأة ويجب أن يضع أفرص إذا كان يجب أن يكون أفرص لكن هذا يجب علينا أن نقول حائشة سيرحم الله ونساء المهاجرات يعني ما الله فعل مرحباً على المساعدات المهاجرين أسأل لك أولاً هل تعرفت أن المهاجرين أمو ورش وستانصار؟ لأن كل مكان في القرآن الله سبحث عنهم أولاً المساعدات المساعدة بحيث كلهم أمو هاجرين ليس أحدهم أنصاري لأنهم أعجبهم ما الله فعله لما أنزل الله تعالى وأن الله سبحانه وتعالى وليضربنا بخمرين على جيوبه هنا فقلت لنا مروته ونفقت مرنا بها now it's fascinating يعني it's fascinating وعش لفته جنرل والله it's a person who claims knowledge and says I'm a person I'm a Mufti and that title should be stripped from that person of course who says this is a Wahhabi practice when مهاجرين were doing this ونفقت مرنا بها she mentioned the faces after that I think you brought a statement after that the way she specified the face I actually didn't mention the face no she didn't she's just فقلت مرنا بها so it goes back to the issue of what did khimar actually come in his default ruling but the فقلت مرنا بها shows something very solid which is you have to understand in the context that it's in شقاقنا مروته and they rip the cloths up and then فقلت مرنا بها they did the khimar on it the khimar wasn't done before that so after they cut it all up they did it and we have إبن حجر إمام where's the Wahhabi what to do with we have إبن حجر way before that he mentioned that that فقت مرنا بها إبن حجر يسي فتحوا في فتحوا الباري أي غطينا وجوها هنهيسيس وصفة وداليك أن تضع القيمار على رأسها وترميه من الجانب الإيماني إلى العاتق الإسري وهو التقنعي she's covered the faces أميني شقيطيه منشزة رحمه الله و تعالى العلمة محمد بن صالع الوثائمين و دايدي 1,421 هجرية he says فإذا كانت مرأة مأمورة بأن تضرب بالخيمانة على جبيها if the woman is commanding to cover her blossoms with the khimar كانت مأمورة بسطل وجهها she's also commanding the face why because and وثائمين is very strong he says لازم و داليكة because the necessity is that if you bring it down from here to there yes why would you go around the sharia would mention the face's exception here not to mention you already agreed that the women at that time their faces were showing yes so it would have made sense to say come no you know keep your face the way it is okay what's your next proof my next proof is the ayah so this is the same ayah to where's the end of the ayah yes إبنو كثير says كانت المرأة في الجاهلية the women before Islam إذا كانت تمشي في الطريق if she would walk on the path و في رجليها خلقالون and she was wearing those بانجوز و سمجوز بانجوز و سمجوز صامت لا يسمع صوته وضربت بيرجليها she knows it can't be heard يعني and it's silent what she would do is وضربت بيرجليها الأرض she would hit her leg on the ground so it can make a noise so that men can know طنينه the son that this woman is making فنه الله المؤمنات عن ميطة دي داريكة الله prohibited the women from doing this is this haram for women to do this yes why is it haram because Allah prohibited it but why did Allah what's the wisdom behind it والله العلم the wisdom to draw attention to them obviously to okay the face is greater than that i know but we always go back to this اس قياس انا اس قياس الأولى قياس is a chapter in our religion especially with fake issues you can't deny that if a woman is prohibited from the noise the habibi at noise that she makes the bangles that make her noise and she men look at her what about if a woman is so beautiful she's walking on that street and every sister is beautiful in her way okay so you just say some are it might apply on because every sister she's got men that will find her attractive okay and some even sleep because yeah even sleep goes i don't agree with you can't say you can't say every sister and into yeah you know i'm telling you generally speaking every sister is found attractive so she walks noise is prohibited habibi and i don't it's not it for you to say okay yeah these logical arguments we've covered them many times and then they keep coming up so what's the next proof insha'Allah قولوا تعالى والقواعد بن النساء إلا تلا يردون نكاحم فليس عليه نجناح أن يضع نتيابه ونغير متبرجات بزينة ويستعفف لقير اللهم والله سمع وعليم this eyes صورة النور eyes 60 yes ابن جرير الطاب he mentions in تفسير of this آية he says this is referring to واللوات قد قعدنا عن الولد this woman she cannot have no children anymore because of من الكيبري because she's aged okay and the women this woman الله says فليس عليه نجناح أن يضع نتيابه there's no harm upon this woman أن يضع نتيابه that they take off their تياب you are in trouble if you say this is not the niqab and the gloves do you mean that she's going to take off her clothes what clothes would she take off do you believe here because ابن جرير he says اي ليس عليه نحرد ولا إثمن أن يضع نتيابه يعني جلابيبه جلابيبه وهي القناع الذي يكون فوق الخمار and it was the cloth that was placed on top of the خمار وهي الرداء التي يكون فوق التيابي لا حرج عليه أن يضع نتيابه عند المحارم من الرجال وغير المحارم من الغربائي غير متبررجات بزينة the cover that used to cover herself from the top with her face and hands and everything the sharia is now turning her take it easy the evidence to show you that it's specifically the niqab and the gloves as well is there's a woman by the name of حفصة بن تسيرين she was Muhammed ibn sirin's sister she died the 27th year of the hijriah so she died she died the 27th year of the hijriah now no 28th year of the hijriah she passed away the 28th year of the hijriah okay حفصة بن تسيرين and it was mentioned كنا ندخل على عاصب الأحوال who died a 141 hijriah he said كنا ندخل على حفصة حفصة بن تسيرين وقد جعلت الجلبابها كده she took the jilbab وتنقبت به she was covering her face فنقول لها what's that she was aged رحمك الله ميالله بمسيق قال الله الله سبحانه وتعالى الله سبحانه وتعالى من النسائلات لا يردون لي كيحا فليس عارينا دون أحون أن يضعن ثيابه هن غير متبرجات بزينة ويستعففنا خير لهم لسوى they said to her and then when they read the iron they said وهو الجلباب this is referring to the jilbab فتقول لنا she would say to us أي شيء من دالكة which part of it فنقول وأن يستعفف لخير الله هنا but it's best for the she would say to them she would say sorry أي شيء بعد دالكة and after that يعني after that part of the ayah carry on يعني when they stopped يضعن ثيابه هن غير متبرجات بزينة she said after that carry on the verse ويستعففنا خير الله what is better for them to speak just so she kept on for that reason so she kept on because of that part of the last part of the verse she was a Ali man so from this it permitted this verse from this يعني from this ayah it allowed the women who are senior seen iron old women to take off their clothing here means cash for wedgie their faces and they give hands of course without any beautification they can't beautify themselves but it doesn't here mean that she can cover uncover her hair وها دائج مع just sauce she has missed that اجمع ابن حزمن she has missed that اجمع and other than them يعني a woman however old she is she can't show her hair okay مهما بلغس نوع however old she is okay so مفوم المخالفة we spoke about which is a reverse understanding if the women who are old الله say now you can uncover your faces what does it show of course مفوم المخالفة which is أن غير النساء الكبيرات the women who are not senior in age two old which are the Shabbat من النساء دي يامة مرات بالحجاب وسط للواجه it's a very strong argument and the eye for people at home is 24 so number 24 eye number 60 it's a very strong argument so now in sha Allah I just want to mention the last and final verse to support the obligation of the woman covering her face يعني وجوب النقاب I mentioned there's going to be seven evidences from the Quran so this is my last evidence from the Quran قال تعالى الله says in the Quran الله mentions to the believing women الله says stay in your houses what is the word تبرجمين ابنو منظور has a book with لسانو العرب okay ابنو منظور he died here 811 and his book is a dictionary we go back to it لسانو العرب he's not the only one who said that by the way you can find لاتبن ساعدين mentioned it you can find his statement in the كتاب بحل المحيط يعني قايمة اللغة mention this ابنو منظور said والتبرج اظهار المرأة زينتها ومحاسينها للرجال وتبرجت المرأة اظهرت وجهاها وإذا ابتت المرأة محاسن جيدها ووجها قيلة برجت he says that تبرج is that the woman brings out in the open her beauty يعني المحاسن الله gave her the beautiful things الله gave her she shows it to her للرجال وتبرجت المرأة when the Arabs they say that means اظهرت وجها she has brought her face out in the open وإذا ابتت المرأة محاسن جيدها ووجها when the woman brings out her face they say تبرجت تبرجت when the ayah says تبرج it means don't bring out your faces that's what Allah is prohibiting them from اللي تمنوا سعد the great scholar who died in 175 هجرية he said إذا ابتت المحاسنها من وجها وجسدها that the word تبرجت المرأة means if she brings out in the open محاسنها her beauty من وجها وجسدها her face and her hands الشيخ الشيخ he mentions he says تبرج means محاسن والمفاتن من صدرها شيخ من وجها وجسدها حليها وشعرها ونحو يدارك وهاك هذا الواتش then he went on to saying what he said so the ayah is also another ayah to support the obligation of women covering their faces being obligatory now okay because you brought some very strong arguments from the Quran itself 7 arguments in total I think around 5 different ayah some of them have multiple arguments in there we're now going to move on to the other arguments I assume from the sunnah and bear in mind that this conversation is obviously your arguments that you're bringing forward the second half of the conversation will be arguments from my side coming forward as well so let's move on to the sunnah insha'Allah so the adilla from the sunnah the woman has to cover her face is متعددة are many those which are these 8 are going to be directly to the point and they're going to be authentic not going to be something you're going to dispute his authenticity number 1 is حديث من عمر حديث فاني بخاري where the prophet SAW he said لا تنقب المرأة ولا تلبس القفا زيني the prophet SAW he mentions the woman does not wear نقاب the one woman when she does it ولا تلبس القفا زيني and she doesn't also wear gloves the woman in the state the woman in the akhram so the نقاب is a cover that you place on your face which only the two eyes of the person becomes out in the open and what I'm trying to take from this حديث is the way I'm trying to use this حديث is that the عادة the nooms of the women in other than احرام was to wear نقاب and gloves شخصم تيمير رحمة الله he said و هذا مما يدل على ان النقابة والقفا زيني and the gloves they were both known in the women that were not doing عمرة و حج and then he said و ذالكة and this shows يختضي صطر وجوهنا that they have to cover their faces and their two hands أبو بكرر من العربي الماركي who died in 543 before شخصم تيمير و تقيب المرأة that the woman does not wear نقاب و ذالكة لأنها سترها because that is because her covering وجهاها بالبرق covering with the نقاب فرضون is obligatory إلا في الحج except in حج فإن ترخي شيء من خمارها على وجه غير لاسق به because to wear the نقاب is obligatory outside حج but inside حج all that is required from her is that for her to cover her face with the خمار which is not the نقاب because it is connected to it where she just lets it go and drops that one she turns away from the man شخب نباز رحم الله he said this hadith is also an evidence to show the obligation of the نقاب so I have a sheikh who used this to show عربي الماليكي who mentioned شخب نباز and many other great scholars رحمهم الله من الله be pleased with each and every one of them so the prophet SAW said that the woman in a state of إخلام is not allowed to wear the نقاب from that you got that there is an obligation to wear the نقاب outside of that and you quoted some scholars that support you in that as well I am trying to understand where that is coming from because we know that when the prophet SAW forbids things in the state of إخلام it just means that it's permissible outside of إخلام or it's known or maybe it's encouraged we could even say but there are many things for example wearing perfume a man covering his head he's not allowed to do that in إخلام does that mean now that it's wired for him outside of إخلام so the women wearing نقاب outside was something that was what they did which we both agree was known at the time but where are you getting the obligation from the fact that they are told not to do it now they prohibited from it stay away from the نقاب and men are told not to wear something on their head in إخلام men are also not men and women are not allowed to wear like scented perfume or anything like that but nobody is disputing whether the scent is obligatory exactly no problem so I'm saying if نقاب is مستحب for example نقاب is recommended then why does this show that it's obligation just because there's a dispute going on it doesn't mean it's a little strong in that actually your point is strong here to be honest really strong that had it by itself doesn't show the obligation you're right and I agree with you on that that it's far-fetched to just use this had it by itself the reason I'm saying is that if you took the other external evidences that I brought this is now saying to you since it was wearجب on you to wear نقاب outside حج now that حج has entered you can't wear نقاب you still have to cover your faces but just not with نقاب so let's keep that this one to one side the other external evidences we've already gone through them however now that you brought this one up it does raise the question that a woman the prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم said she can't wear نقاب in a state of إخلام when obviously the men's hearts are meant to be the most pure in this place in إخلام you're saying that she still has to cover her face though are there any scholars who said that she doesn't have to cover her face who still believe نقاب is واجب in a state of إخلام right in أمرا she has to cover her face not that I can remember personally right now I might not recall it so a woman even in إخلام when she's going to أمرا حج she has to cover her face but she can't use نقاب but the difference is that نقاب is a type of face covering that's not allowed in حج for women so she just has to still cover herself by other means by other ways okay okay watch your next video from the sunnah the حديث I mentioned حديثة الإفك the situation of إفك بقارن مسلم both narrated it في منزلي غلبتني عيني فنمتو while I was sitting in my house tiredness over came and I slept وكان صفاني بالمعطل صفاني بالمعطل السلم is a noble companion he was from the people from that particular tribe he is a man who is known to come after the army عيشة mentions it رضي الله تعالى she is the name وراء الجيشي he comes from behind the army when the army leave he comes and he collects everything so عيشة is left behind he comes back he finds out the wife of the prophet is here everybody else is gone the wife of the prophet is here فأصبح عند منزلي فراءة سوادة إنساني نائم he saw a pitch dark person sleeping there from far he saw some dark thing over there so he came to close فعرفاني he recognized me when he saw me وكان راءاني قبل الحجاب he knew me before Ayat al-Hijab came down شوني Ayat al-Hijab was where the niqab came from فاستيقظت وشيسر I woke up بسترجاعه based on his إِنَّا لِلَّهِ وَإِنَّا إِنَّا إِلَيَّهِ رَاجَعُونَا then Allah turned his face فخمرت وشي بجلبابي when he came, he covered her face straight away my face the word فخمرت ويغطيته وشي بجلبابي so i took that thob and she covered her face صفير رحمايه وبرغفوري ان شلحة تحفة الحو다는 he says By the way the one nas means it means it means لا يوجد إنتباعات مفتوحة فهذا الحديث نصن حديث كليكة في شمول الحجابي للواتش حجاب ينقومبسه و you feed on what benefits is أن الحجاب يمنع الرائي من معرفة المرأة بواتشها لأن سفن معطلو didn't recognize me the fact I covered my face she means لكوني الواتش مستورا تمام الستري she covered it properly she wouldn't have known if she was right than the guy who she was she said he saw me before so and he mentions that statement of his شخص في الرحمن it's not that I did a mistake it's the author of that it's it's and he's also the one who summarized the كتاب he's the one who summarized شخص في الرحمن who died in 1427 so it was a mistake صاحبه تحفظ رحودي they all from that they all from that they all from that but he mentions this رحمه الله so we've already agreed that the wives of the prophets also have to win the cup that's not up for discussion I actually as a wife of the prophets so I don't understand why is this you read what you delala from this yeah what I'm taking from this حديث is and also another benefit I want to take from this is that she said she said yeah yeah yeah yeah I I I I I I I I I I I I I وادوز ونقاب و what do you think? لماذا؟ وانا من الجلسة والأخيج باذرق و من المفريق is she referring to when she said ودع من دع إذا لأحجمه هذا حديث لم يحسنع بأي شيء بربع فخمارتو فخمارتو سنصب دعي دعوة هذه هي مدفولة ويجب أن يكون هذه علمية من الأن ويجمعها من أول و نظام على الأن ولكن لكي ت Давайте أن تصري بها الأبني ولكن في ذلكwir كنت أكتابها الخاصة بالحديث على عار your باركت مجرورة الحديث عم العطية رضي الله عنها The Prophet ﷺ بخروج النساء The Prophet ﷺ كمان للأجساء To go out لصلاة العيد فقول to As sev إهدانا لا يقول لها جلباب One of us doesn't have a jلباب The Prophet ﷺ من جلبابها بقار المسلم بوطنرية هذا الحديث أن one of her sisters should allow her to wear their jilbab she has a spare one This hadith shows that the عري شيخ بروعثي ميل ميلم يشاركه إنه فهذا الحديث يقول أنه على أن المعتادة This hadith shows that which is the norms عند النساء الصحابة قولت الصحابيات was Allah تقلُج أبراحة إبداة بجلبب جلباب The women will never come out without the jilbab As per the eye as well You agree, right? Yeah, as per the eye The eye clearly says that But the definition of jilbab is what's really out for discussion We already took it before We did take it We took the word فخمرت وجي بجلبابي When Haisha said that I covered my face with my jilbab Yeah So the صحابيات they knew it to be that I can say I covered my face with my sleeve It doesn't mean my sleeve by default It's covered in my face every time I put it in a sleeve Do you get it? Yeah, but that's my point You're right The sleeve You cover it with your face Where did you get it from? I just said the sentence now What do you mean where did I get it from? The خمار Being a form of covering the face I already told you You said it's a possibility Sleeve covering your face is not from What it's known to do So I say that again I'm saying the sleeve Yeah It's something that covers, right? It covers my arm Yeah, but that's what I'm saying Sleeve is not for the face I can say that to you Yeah, yeah, yeah If you use it If you use that I'll be like Oh, Haisha Why did you use your sleeve? Why didn't you just use your top color? That's not for the face I'm saying it's closer That's my point The point We're digressing here The point I'm trying to say to you Is that عايش رضي الله عنا She mentions The Hadith سابق فخمرت وشي بجلبابي I mentioned the Hadith فعطر من تلمذر All of these Sahabi'at are using the word جلباب as to cover the face They're using it like that You haven't until now proven to me One Sahabi Sahabi'a Because this is a Hadith عايش I'm sorry One of us يا رسول الله احدانا لا يكون لها جلباب One of us doesn't have a jilbab You're finding the Sahabi'at Using jilbab as a face cover I'm not going to explain it Why would she say that I covered my face with my jilbab Why don't you say I put on the jilbab And by default that means face According to you Right Why does she have to specify face It's almost like the jilbab Doesn't always cover the face But she does in this example Because she specified face Yeah, that's my point That's my I'm not denying the fact That a person can wear Trousers And their legs can still show But the trousers covers their legs So you can remove it If I I'm wearing trousers now Yeah I can pull my trousers up so high That even my thighs can be seen For example Yeah, okay This is Sirwal Okay But when somebody says Okay, I'm wearing trousers You understand it normally As something that covers your legs No one would ever say I covered my legs with my trousers They don't need to say I covered my legs They just say I wore trousers You know, sometimes people do Emphasize it Because I said I covered my eyes Where else would you have seen it For عايش I had to say Exactly That's true But for عايش I covered my face It's almost like Indicating to us That الجلباب It doesn't always have to cover the face It's like I said I covered my face But the صحابيات That's what it meant to them That's my point Okay I'll call for the صحابيات That's what it meant to them Okay That Okay That Okay That Okay That Okay That Okay That Okay Okay Okay Okay Okay Okay Okay Okay Okay Okay Okay Okay Okay Okay Okay Okay Okay Okay Okay Okay Okay Okay Okay Okay Okay Okay Okay Okay Okay Okay Okay Okay Okay أم السلامة رضي الله تعالى عنها she said فكيف يصنع رنساء بذو يوليه now what about the women, what do they do with their lower garment يعني the part that's touching the floor the tail of the garment, what do they do with that the part that drags on the ground the prophet said I need just a hand span she has to do it فقالة she said اذا تنكشفوا أقدامه now then the prophet SAW يرخينا دراعا they do this much and they don't increase on that this حديث علي مامة محمد نريته أبو داود نريته تربيده نريته تربيده كنسلده تبيه حسن and sheikh al-albani authenticated انجل باب المرعة المسلمة okay my question to you is بيهقي when he brought this in his سنة القبرة he said في هذا الدليل على وجود بسطر قداميها this shows that is obligated for the women to cover her legs and I know you're not going to deny that yeah of course, how am I with you on that حمود من عبدالله توي جري who died in 1412 the reason why sheikh al-albani was going back and forth on the whole issue of nighab if you read jilbab المرعة المسلمة it was between him and sheikh حمود من عبدالله توي جري back and forth because he mentioned that this hadith shows that a woman has to cover her legs then he said a very powerful question he asked a very clever and smart and you know only good question he said if a woman has to cover her legs okay which we all agree that yeah I need the attraction for a woman's face is far greater and far more than her legs are you going to say to me that the sharia has gone to oblige according to you oblige the woman to cover her legs when the fitna that arises from her roses comes from the woman's feet is lower than that which comes from what the face situation here yeah we've gone through all these arguments before these are all philosophical logical arguments and the reverse can be done for the man the man has to cover just above his knee just above his knee that area which is not attractive at all it has to be covered his face is more attractive there's a reason why he has to cover between those two because there are private parts in there no no no just above his knee that's the whole area of his private part so it's the area of his genital so to protect cover this part but I'm saying that I'm saying that no of course I'm not denying the logic of the argument but like we've said many times in previous podcasts we get our religion from the Quran and the sunnah we don't get it from our own intellect it's a strong logical argument but it's philosophical you can't look you're right you're right in a sense we don't use intelligent evidence on expences of the Quran and the sunnah no no no say not يقول لأزواجك وبناتك ونساء المؤمنين يدينينا عليه من جلابي بهنا وليضرب لبقوموا رهينا على جيوبهنا وإذا سألتموهن ما تعافسوا رهونا من وراء حجابي ولا يبدين زينته إلا مظهر منها والقواعد من النساء لا يرجونني كعمل فليس علينا جناحهن أن يضع على نتيابهنا خير متبرجات بزينة ويستعففنا خير الله النون يعني هؤلاء فرصة أسر منها تتقيب المحرمة ولا تدبس الحفاظيني يعني دون مشروع النقابا وانا مجدد حديث سفاني من المعطن حديثة تريف مع كل ذلك الآن سنضع إلى ذلك تحديث رشنون للمؤمنين أنت تقول حتى شيء أسر في رنك تستبدلون اللذي who أدنى باللذي هو خير يعني لدينا بعض الأشياء التي يجب أن نعرف هل كله حرام على نفس نفس لا كله واجبات على نفس نفس نفس لا لذا تعرف أن صلاة is واجب حسنا صلاة is what نعم it's واجب it's a big واجب act صلاة is being واجب and let's say نقاب according to me being واجب right now am I going to say it's the same but then I'm not going to say it's the same and of course they're not the same so what I'm trying to you is that you're telling me the legs or sorry the foot of a woman it's not even the leg it's the foot the قدم is just the foot the foot of a woman is fitna okay and she's covered I'm saying the foot of a woman has to be covered because we have a clear cut hadith from the sunnah I'm going to stop there as for the face we don't have anything clear cut because everything has been but what's the illa you see the religion you see Islam why is it fit for every time tell me what's the reason why is Islam as a religion fit for every time every era why is Islam this one religion that can work to إلا أن يريط الله الأرض ومن عليها لأنه يوجد فرق في مكان يمكن أن يكون استخدام في أي حال ومن الممكن أن يستخدام الوصول فديننا لم يخلو عن حكم على مرز زمان لو بدأ ما أعضى لأنه قدحت وقواعدة تستخرج الأحكمة عنها راشيدا the reason why Islam as our deem is that comprehensive religion is because he mentions علل علل meaning reasonings yeah yeah I like that حكم so then when issues arise yes take this farah take it to an asal take this farah bring it to an asal you're right very comprehensive so here we have no but you're right but you're right and you're wrong you're right because you're saying when issues arise yes an issue and a new issue like for example the internet weed for example marijuana these are new issues that weren't known at that time the face of a woman was there at that time I'm saying it it's not a new issue that's alright unless we need an illa I'm saying give me a nos because we are there at the time yeah yeah and I have provided I'm thinking extensive evidences for that but now I'm saying let's say we didn't let's say we didn't bring any textual evidences for it the illa why you made the legs haran definitely the face should apply for it do you believe the woman has covered her eyes as well no no the eyes she doesn't have to but the eyes are more attractive than the cheek a man when never ever see her eyes why would he have to see her eyes for her why would he not see her eyes if she's wearing a carpet she's got her eyes here the prophet said وقولي الله said سبحانه وتعالى وقولي المؤمنات يغضضنا من أبصاره ويحفظنا فروج عونا the women عاي سورة المساء سورة النور sorry الله says وقولي المؤمنات يغضضنا من أبصاره the women should lower their gaze in the first place okay so when the woman is looking down no one is going to see her eyes okay now if that's the case the man has also been commanded to lower his gaze right beautiful so then why could she have a face uncovered he's never going to see her he's lowering his gaze which one according to your logic according to your argument the man has been told to lower his gaze from a woman whether she has her face uncovered or covered or not this is what he's taking see that's what I'm telling you this is what he said to the dry it wants to close not يعني it doesn't want to close one or two doors it wants to close doors it's for her to reach it so if he does wanna look up at her she's covered so if that's the case so there's nothing for her so you see there's a role on the side of the man and there's a role required from the woman the part for the man does not eliminate the woman or the woman doesn't eliminate the man okay so the man has to lower his gaze the girl has to lower her gaze the woman has to you know she has to يعني dress appropriately the man on the other hand also needs to dress appropriately we can say why is why okay then fair and square why are men wearing clothes for take all of your clothes because the women are gonna lower their gaze they're never gonna look us yeah that's what I'm saying that's what you said that the man would never see the eyes of the woman because he's always lowering his gaze because eyes when he looks at her and she's looking down أسلان he can't even see if he wanted to there will be occasion where they have to in trading and business of course there's gonna be occasions there's situations he can't even see her face if okay fine well I'm saying there's other situations even when you're just walking by the woman has to see where she's going she might walk into a lamp she looks up and the man sees her eyes I'm saying if we're gonna go through the logical process of saying the cheek has to be covered which is less attractive than the eyes then you have to apply I think all of those are adherents on this side point that's fair that's fair another nice one عبدلعبنمسعود رضي الله and fourth fifth evidence from the صلنة and this is a حديث اللبام 10 ميلي نريتين الشيخ ناصر رحم الله authenticated is الوالو غليل that the Prophet ﷺ he said on your authority بنمسعود المرأة عورتون that the woman is a عورة فإذا خارجت استشرفها الشيطان that if she goes out الشيطان he beautifies her you see يعلي استشرفها it means اي زيّنها and he beautifies her in the eyes of the men and the reason why he's doing it is ليغويةها ويغوية بها he wants to يعلي deviate the people through her and cause other people confusion and fitna so this حديث it says المرأة عورتون the woman is a what she's a عورة the أصل is that the woman is considered what عورة it's very important yeah now what we say is when I mentioned this before is والله it's important يجدور التنبيه على أمريني two important issues I want people to take the difference between العورة في الصلاة والعورة في باب النظر okay this is very important the علماء they say the face is not an عورة when she's in the صلاة okay what's the reason for that how you did to cover this briefly before but I want to challenge you on it you said that the man for example outside the صلاة he doesn't have to cover his shoulder but we have a حديث that proves that inside the صلاة he has to cover his shoulder okay I want to challenge you on that because you're trying to get from this both parties and see that we don't any evidence is not required if it's a matter agreed on both and I agree with you on that but since we all agree both of us that in the صلاة the woman doesn't have to cover her face I know that she has to cover her hands in the صلاة we both agree upon that okay fine based on the حديث that you mentioned before that the woman doesn't have to wear any cap the woman she wears خمار when she's praying you mentioned that before the حديث I did so then that shows that you don't give خمار is by default face no I told you the way we understand it is في حالة الصلاة the face actually is not عورة but the حديث doesn't mention عورة I'm saying to you حبيبي the صلاة there is no عورة of the face أصلان in this situation the woman is no عورة in the face and the حمس خارج الصلاة there's a different عورة for her she has to this is a specific عورة for her okay صح what I'm saying is that the face is not an عورة in صلاة or outside of صلاة now you're proof to show that there's a difference in عورة in صلاة and outside of صلاة that's different that's you put the example because this issue where I have to prove her عورة from inside the صلاة and outside the صلاة has nothing to do with the obligation of نقاب it's a side point no there is because how if for example we say I say that the face outside the صلاة is not عورة that's my position right it's not عورة okay and I say look to prove that it's not عورة there's we agree and you agree no you can't say that because you that's what my point so you're gonna say now your rebutto is actually that's inside the slides a different عورة and to prove that you bought the حديث of the man having to wear something on his shoulders okay my question for that is that the إلا for that we go back to إلا like you like using all the way through this podcast من باب الإحترام from the perspective of honoring something like the صلاة is something that's honorable the man has to cover something that he doesn't normally have to cover the man has to cover something inside the صلاة which he doesn't have to cover outside the صلاة that's من باب الإحترام it's not so what's the reason why the man has to cover something in the صلاة that he doesn't have to cover outside what's the reason تقسي صعورة what's the reason that it's made out of there like we said Allah's rules has wisdom behind it what's the reason what's the إلا for why the الله inside the صلاة الله I don't know could it not be said that من باب الإحترام from venerating the صلاة from honoring the صلاة that he has to cover something I don't know the إلا for why the man has to put something on his shoulders I'll stop there I don't know okay okay because the point I'm trying to get at is that you've proved that a man has to cover something that he doesn't normally have to cover the woman the woman is opposite way around no you're saying she can take off something in the صلاة that she normally has to cover the reason is because the نقاب and the يعني جل باب the نقاب and the gloves is عورة because of what people looking at her that's what it is okay it doesn't make sense yeah it does there's عورة that the woman has where she's at home even with her brother there's عورة that she can't show anybody else her brother she can't just uncover in front of him and put her clothes on in front of him even though her brother won't have designs for his own sister بعد ذلك there's an amount that's required from him does that make sense it does yeah so I'm saying to you التفريق بين العورة في الصلاة والعورة في باب النظر is important why someone's watching her in the صلاة she has to cover now okay that's what we say once she knows she's in the صلاة it's like حج she has to cover her face now she has to place something over her face because it's another now like مجرد she's in a place where she's not she doesn't have to cover her face okay and also this is where some people try to say okay are you trying to say that the woman's مثل and her thighs and her face are the same عورة no what عورة types there's عورة which is مغلضة and there's عورة which is مخففة okay the عورة which is مغلضة what we know by it it has to be covered every time في صلاة or في خارج صلاة in the صلاة and outside the prayer does it make sense thighs have to always be covered because it's an عورة in and within itself it's always going to be an عورة every situation the مغلضة the مخففة for what we know by it is that it's that it's done in the prayer but not outside the prayer so you say that sorry it's done outside the prayer but not in the prayer which is عورة to نظر in أجانب when men are looking at her only that's when it's عورة so it's عورة اللي غيره لالي ذاته it's عورة in not in within itself but external reasons okay okay okay and sheikh ul samtami mentions this he says what تحقيقه and no Lisa بعورة في الصلاة وهو عورة في باب النظري he mentions that رحمة الله he's a student ابن القيام رحمة الله he says العورة عورتان عورة في النظري وعورة في الصلاة he mentions that so that he said he says فالحرة لها أن تصلي مخففة الوجي واليديين she compared the Salah with her face وليس لها أن تخرج في الأصواق والمجامع للناس كذلك but she can't go outside like that okay ابن القيام رحمة الله وإتعالى okay where are you going to go next so my sixth evidence إن شاء الله إتعالى is going to be حديث عائش رضي الله إتعالى عنها ريما محمد narrated his muslim many places in his muslim أبو داود narrated it in his السنان وشيخ للبن رحمة الله authenticated إن جلبا بالمرات المسلمة and he said حسنوا في شواهده so إن شاء الله إتعالى it's not something you can reject because of authenticity well just because he agrees with my position and I have to take his authentication but no problem go ahead عشرة دي الله إتعالى عنها and she said كان الرغبان ويمر بنا the riders will go by us ونحن مع رسولي الله صلى الله عليه وسلم وحراماته and we are in a state of إحرام with the Prophet عليه الصلاة والسلام فإذا حادوا بنا when those men will go by us أسدلت إحدانة جلبابها من رأسها على وجهها فإذا جا وزا فإذا جا وزنا كشفناه عشرة دي الله عنها she's mentioning that the riders will go by us and we with the Prophet الله عليه الصلاة والسلام يستطيع بحرام when they go by us and they go أسدلت إحدانة جلبابها ونبسوا تقاها جلباب and she will throw it من رأسها from her head على وجهها on her face فإذا جا وزرا when they go by us كشفناه we will uncover our faces so this shows فإذا حادوا بنا you have to understand when these people will go by us يعني the riding men أسدلت إحدانة جلبابها من رأسها على وجهها it shows the obligation of why they would cover their face where did we get obligation from again because this is آيشا the wife of the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم and even if it was a recommended act I still believe she would do that so again where are you getting obligation from for this one is Asmaa بيبك the Prophet's wife no she's not I mentioned before she said كنا نغطي وجوها من رجالي I believe that she would have done the recommended acts I believe that okay the word she used was كنا نغطي نغطي the known is what like to say we did so it's بسيغة الجامل right yeah so what is that show دليل على عمل النساء this is the action of the women at the time of the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم no problem at all they used to cover their faces all of them yeah I'm with you I'm saying we would find one or two people out there okay no I'm telling you that at the time of the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم we would have to find one person who would she say except for Lana didn't do it because she didn't believe it and we've got a hadid come on عايش is not talking out of يعني عايش is not talking sorry أسما بيت أبي بكرين he's not talking about يعني one or two she's talking about حد she said كنا وي يعني all of us نغطي ووجوهانا we would cover our faces من الرجالي في الحرام from the men in state of حرام this is صيغة الجامل this is in a plural form كنا نغطي ووجوهانا she said من الرجالي even كنا ووجوهانا it doesn't just because the noon is used here it doesn't mean every single one we use that expression all the time in English or we were doing this but we all went no, there's no loyalty but there's one guy no, there's no loyalty I'm not talking about روتي I'm talking about let's say there's six of us in the office we all went to صلى الله عليه وسلم no, this can't be but one person left because that no, no, there can't be this is a Hajj by the way this is a state of Hajj and we know a thousand people come she's saying we this is دليل على أن عمل النساء the action of the women في زبني الصحابة رضي الله عنهم كانوا ديوة على تغطية الوجوه بالرجال الأجالي and they that is the مقصودة one and that's what they took already from آية الحجات okay, I'll say I'll say two things for that because the two things need thinking about Insha'Allah first of all when someone says we and they're talking about thousands of people she can't verify every thousand people it's talking about general terms like for example we go on Hajj we all came for the sake of Allah doesn't mean there's not one person in there who didn't have a wrong intention it could happen but we're talking generally when you say all of us went for the sake of Allah that's something we know by default when you say that it's an action of the heart how do you know that? No, I'm saying someone might have gone without for the sake of Allah no, yeah, I do but I still said we because I don't yeah, but I would know that you don't mean everybody from the سياق of the Qalaam because of the fact that we all went there for the sake of Allah it's something I know from the conversation you couldn't have known it but in the state of إحرام if I look at one point and I say and I've been I've been to موزدليف I went to مينة I went to عرفة I went to you know حرام and I did my طوافر on the Ka'aba and everything and I said we will worry why يا حني أخي my point is you're gonna say do you understand my point? you and Hajj was everybody when right? once that's the same thing عاشا say أسمع بتابي باكر إنساء إنساء كنا نغطي وجوها لمن الرجال في الإحرام and I'm telling you the issue of that we were mentioning before when the I had the cable I had the cable بيقول أزواجك وبناتك ونسائل الممينين يودينين عليه لمن جلا بيبين the women all like the غراب you know the crow all of them covered straight away this is the wives of the Prophet عليه الصلاة والسلام so I'm saying to you the statement أسمع بتابي باكرين where she mentions that we wish to cover our face shows that it's not specific to the wives of the Prophet that we're doing it when عاشا said كنا كنا كنا because one of a person could say ونا عاشا رضي الله عاشد كنا الرقبان يمروا بنا ونحن ومع رسول الله محلماتهم فإذا حاولوا بنا أسدلت حدالة جلبابها من رأسيها على وجهة and she's probably talking about the Prophet's wives because that's what she said ونحن ومع رسول الله maybe it's the Prophet's wives صلى الله عليه وسلم which I can it's easy to debunk that but then ونبع أسمع بتابي باكرين that's not the Prophet's wives I'm just saying that if you really look at that that Adelene on its own on its own it's hard to determine an obligation for that it could be a highly highly highly and they all would have done it there's a book I'm gonna encourage صلى الله عليه وسلم about the soonest of knowledge to read it's called إستدلالات إستدلالات الأصوليين it's written by رياض أسسولبي he talks about إستدلالات الأصوليين it's a مهزة معاصل it's a ريصان he talks about how the أصوليين take evidences from the Qur'an and the Sunnah this Kitab is very beneficial in one perspective which is that he shows in his Mashallah writing that when it comes to the دليل sometimes one دليل cannot prove your point but when you bring that دليل with another دليل with another دليل it becomes clear yeah all of those together does that make sense if I give a logical argument a person can't kill a person just with sand they can't kill somebody just with just water that they have a cup of water they can't if they take water pour in sand make the sand a bit hard then burn the sand and then it becomes hard and tough and then wax on somebody's heart it kills them yeah so sometimes things when we look at each specifically we may not come out with a bigger picture when you bring all of those evidences together it draws big picture for us yeah that's a fair point and you have presented a lot of evidences are we are we got any more left or can I go on my turn now the seventh evidence I have is that the 7th حديث I have is حديث عبدالهبن رضي الله تعالى عنهما sorry رضي الله تعالى عنه the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم يساللاته باشير المرأة المرأة فتنعتها وما فتنعتها وما فتنعتها لزوجها كان ينضر إليها to her husband كي ينضر إليها ما أ Catalunya من حديث is إليها بقى not looking at وكن وطريف أرسيها جميلا و conspirator شكرا هم وطريف حديث وطريف وطريف حديث وطريف حديث وطريف حديث فتنعتها فتنعتها لزوجها كان ينضر إليها اس why they shouldn't be looking at women it's got nothing to do with the face either if you will know people do look up so this man would not see this woman it's a common thing that the women's face is if it was out in the open أنوا يون ضر إليها there would be no head of because men could just if they they didn't need their wives to explain it to them they could have just looked up and saw the woman's face he had the only way that a man could know how a woman is now I'm not vying it I'm not vying it sorry it's like for example if a man didn't see you هن might come across some women and with you like on the street but he might not have seen that particular woman his wife's friend. So by his wife describing her friend to him. He's never even saw her who is the most majority of minority. I suppose it depends on my region to be honest with you. Around the Muslim world as a whole. In the middle it's look at the Muslims community today. Are there more Muslims at Winikab or less Muslims now? I would say from a doctor. I would say if I was really thinking about it. سأقول ذلك أكثر أن لا تكون في نقاب نعم أعتقد أنه أصبحت لكنهم يقولون بشكل كبير بشكل كبير أشعر أننا نقول ذلك لأننا قامت بشكل كبير لا حقا حقا نحن نقول للشخص نقابي سستة لأنه جزء لأنه جزء يعني أصدقائي if that was the case in a sense where women wearing نقاب was like rare and the women wearing نقاب was what about the Sahabiya I would say the majority all of them but your case let's just say majority so the majority of men cannot see the women right but there's few that they could see if they wanted to look at few so so فتنعتها لزوجها كأنه ينظر إليها you're saying that the only means to see a woman majority of the people would be what through their wives right description of the wives somebody describing the system for them okay for the ones who are wearing the cup there's no other way that might exist you said at the time that the Sahabas were we just talk about the face obviously yeah so you're saying that the Sahabiya the majority of them are wearing the cup yes according to you but according to you so we come together on one thing which is the men the means that they could majority the means that they can know how a sister looks is based on what what their wives tell them or their friends tell them there's no other way to find out so the woman should not describe a woman is not allowed to describe to her husband or her brother on any one of them what can't she do? describe another sister the حديثة كأنه ينظر إليها like he's looking at her but if he looks at her he can't see anything she's wearing a cup so it means what? she's not wearing a cup she's not wearing a cup when you described her you took the cup of this sister because you're describing what I'm saying is imagine a woman he wasn't even wearing a cup a man is not allowed to look at her he has to lower his gaze all the time because Allah commands him to lower his gaze so there I'm not denying it so by a woman describing her even if she is wearing a cup according to you all they're all wearing a cup yes a man doesn't need his wife to describe it that's what I'm saying the prophet it would be no if another another means there's no reason to condemn this one because this one is not would he ask his wife how she looks a man is not allowed to see his woman because of the lower the gaze not because of the cup but the majority of the people are looking at women that's my point they shouldn't be though but what I'm trying to say to you is that the man who would even ask his wife to tell him how fulana looks like there's something wrong so exactly my point here is if there's another means to see the woman this is my argument if there's another means to see the woman mentioning a sister should not explain to another sister how her husband how this woman looks to her husband would have it's rarely occurring if there's another let's just say there is another means I get about things very weak honestly speaking even if there was another means to look at a woman let's just say there is another means to the man because why do you think that I don't understand how you get in them doesn't make sense even if there's another means the man could look at another woman first of all he's been told not to because Allah told him to lower his gaze even if Allah didn't say that I understand my point I'm saying to you the fact that the Prophet was addressing it was that that was the only option you only mention an issue because of his ظاهرة there's something concerning it by the way the other thing is أنه ينظري like he's looking at her because it doesn't exist they don't look at her because he's not wanting to gaze that's our point this argument actually works against you because if you're saying there's an argument that works against you let me cover that first if you're saying that Allah commanded the men to lower their gaze and you okay no problem if Allah did that what are they looking at if they're all covered anyway why would Allah command them to lower their gaze yeah if all the women are covered according to you all the women are covered why would Allah command the men to lower their gaze I'll tell you when the wind blows her he wants to see those things which he can't do anything about I'll respond to that question the men should not describe to their wives the way that a man looks like because the men can be seen that's what I'm saying with you the second thing that works against you is there's a Sahabi who used to come into the Masjid he would go to the last line as you know the time of the Prophet the men and the women there was not a veil to cover between the Salah the women are praying at the front the women are praying at the back what would the Sahabi do to the ending of the prayer to look at the women in front of him under his arm he would look at the women this shows you a few things the first thing is this Sahabi this was the only chance he could see the women this Sahabi doesn't have to see the women in the Salah he could wait outside the mess street and wait for them he could see them they're not wearing a Qab by the way the women their hairs are not showing and their faces and their hands it's specifically their face and their hands the reason I'm trying to point here is the issue of looking at women was present this is I'm with you but the thing is I'm saying that this shows that if a Sahabi was looking at a woman within the prayer he looked at her he looked at her in the prayer رضي الله عنه this shows that outside the prayer most likely a man would see a woman even if he didn't intentionally want to look at her even if he saw her at the first time by the way the Prophet SAW said the first look is for you and the second one is not yours the point I'm trying to come to is and I think it's for me personally it's convincing but maybe not for you maybe not for many people as well but for me personally it's very convincing which is that the Prophet is telling the women because this is the only avenue this is the only path a man can actually know how a woman looks like at the time of the Prophet SAW when we speak about Allah's characteristic and attributes what do we say in order to know how Allah looks like you have to see Him yourself can you see Allah? no you can't second thing is الله سبحانه وتعالى brings about someone who saw the Prophet to tell us how he looks like is there anyone who saw Allah to tell us how he looks like those two means are the means to know there's a third means which is that the person themselves gives you the description of how they look or the fourth one is you compare one to the other with Allah we can't do that this teaches us the concept of knowing how somebody looks the women at the time of the Prophet SAW in order to know how she looked like in order to know how she looked like they did that was through a woman their wives would either tell them or the other side of my point because they commanded to lower the gaze that's the problem do you have anything else from your side yes I have the last and final which is which is which is which is which is which is which is which is which is which is which is which is which is which is which is which is which is which is which is which is which is which is which is which is which is which is أسأل لك what was it that he did go and see this woman that you want to get married to go and what? see this woman my question to you is we know in Fiqh that a man can go and what? see the looks of a woman, how she looks before if he wants to get married to her do you believe that the man can go and look at the woman's hair and her neck you believe that before marriage our evidence may not work for you if you believe that the man can look at the woman's hair which I think a person should only restrict himself to the face and hands let's just say for example someone is watching this and they believe that it's only for the face let's just I just want to follow the argument through if they follow through that argument where they believe that the only thing that a man can see from the one is her face and her the only thing that he can see is her face and her hands then this is how this shows the man is watching her the man is watching her as it was covered before he has lowered his gaze it goes back to that before he has lowered his gaze now we are seeing the man now you can look at her she realised that the Prophet allowed him to do it she said أمركة the point I'm trying to say to you is that she had an ability to stop him from that هل رأيتها قامت بها؟ after the proposal, after the prophet allowed it? before that now? before that if she believes that Niqab is مستخبض then she will cover it if not then she'd have seen her face but he still didn't see her face before because he's lowering his gaze, that's the point I'm getting at whether she's got her face covered or not it doesn't matter so let's say her face doesn't matter for me so her face was covered okay let's just say okay let's go down that route first yeah what's her face covered? I don't actually know that's what it seems from the narration okay let's just say her face is covered yeah so she said if the prophet SAW allowed you he allowed you then look at me but if not, no he said I looked at her but as I watched her I got married to her okay this shows us that the men who were honorable at that time المغيرات من الشعب صحابي ونجلي many many other companions they weren't able to see the woman they wanted to get a man the women were covered yeah they're not allowed to because they have to lower their gaze I'm saying to you the point I'm trying to say to you is that مغير رضي الله تعالى عنه wanting to see this woman the wanting to see her was something he doesn't have to lower his gaze when he wants to get a man to her no before he wasn't allowed to see her before so the prophet SAW goes to see her yeah he goes to see her okay go and look at her right and then what did she say okay I allow you for the prophet SAW but what does that show you if he wanted to see her he doesn't care about whether she allows it or not he saw her now he could look up and it shows that she was covering and she had to uncover for him to see that's clear in the hadith even if you say that's clear no problem she believes this must have he still doesn't prove would you do that okay beautiful beautiful but as long as you believe she was wearing a cup no I don't know that's what I'm saying not on the premises that it was wedged but of course she was wearing a cup okay okay no problem I'll go with that no problem so I mean of course what are you saying he was asking مغير رضي can I see your hair because that's the only thing she has to uncover possibly so he's not saying uncover your face for me could have been a hair so he wasn't allowed to look at her at the beginning he's not allowed to look at her regardless of whether she's covered or not okay her face is showing so he has to lower his gaze yeah even if her face wants to go in his we still agree he has to lower his gaze so he lowers his gaze and his face her face is showing her face is showing he never saw her face he never saw her face so then he came to the Prophet SAW so he's low on his gaze the Prophet SAW go look at her go look at her yeah she listened to him yeah so he went when he went to her he said I want to see you so now he looks at her what is it that he wanted to see could have been a hair no but he hasn't seen her face could have been a hair could have been a face he was low on his gaze you said he hasn't seen her face he hasn't seen anything so far he hasn't seen her face yeah and now he wants to see what مغيرا okay her face wants to see what her face he wants to see her face that's all it is he wants to see her face it could be a face and a hair but I'm just saying for you you wanted me to agree that it's just a face no problem it seems like that it doesn't seem like I don't from the Sahabas I don't think any woman would يعني مغيرا when asked a prophet يا رسول الله يعني I want to see يعني a hair would be far fetched for me personally okay let's just say a face what seems to be apparent when I'm in the light is that he wanted to see her face and she was covering her face he asked her to take off يعني cover now can I see your face or she even allowed him she goes if the prophet let you know a problem so he saw her face what I'm trying to take from this where did you get she took off her cover it says that in the hadith you just added that because that would be crucial yeah but he said she said if Allah prophet allowed you to look at me yes so my argument is that is not her hair that she's allowing him to see okay no problem because it's something she's showing him okay let's just say it's a face no problem okay so I'm trying to say that this virtuous time where these people were honorable صحابة رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم يعني we would actually we literally say about the companions how great they were at the time when these women if they even took off their covers صحابة رسول الله their men were so honorable and righteous not even look at that woman في هذا الحالة I'm trying to say if they were told to the women were told to cover with مغير بينا campaign at that time and أبو بكر السديق and عمر ابن الخطاب رضي الله عنو a time when the fitna today is يعني all over that place فصاق مجرمين who يعني would lust over just يعني with the ones who are in the grave the ones that were in the grave there's lust still there for her عرفت فما بالكدو فما بالكدو what do you think about the woman whose face is shasone and I personally experienced one thing there was a girl in our school in secondary school in Birmingham so what happened was she used to wear نقاب in class and I was young and I saw her wear نقاب and to be honest with you when I studied the religion I used to take نقاب for elderly people elderly people I didn't know that young people can wear it she was in class she wore نقاب she just came from Somalia everybody used to say I want to know how you look they were like how did she look like they would make jokes about her and they would say things weren't pleasant one day she came into the class and she was wearing نقاب and I remember who was sitting next to a non-Muslim guy she had a face and he said something because wow she was really good looking a non-Muslim guy but that's it he determined her looks just on her face yeah it's true that was enough for him to just now know this girl all this time it was very eager to know I'm just saying I'm just saying yes you're right I'm with you let's just say for example because I went with you saying yeah her face got her face let's just say now we go with me her face was uncovered he's not allowed to look at her so he's never seen her because he's been told to lower his gaze the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم tells him he can look at her he goes up to her and she catches him looking at her she startled obviously the companions don't do this they don't look straight into the face of the woman she's saying oh if the Prophet let you then you can look you can't say this it doesn't have to mean anything about her I'm not saying that the concept of looking happens even unintentionally you know what I mean like looking is not it's something we should do be with me be with me understand but there are many avenues where a man can see a woman without marriage he can see her when she's buying or selling he can look at her do you understand my point the issue of looking by the way is not yeah I know what you mean the issue of looking at a woman is not because of what's going to lead to Zina if that look is going to lead to something that's positive in Islam you're allowed to look at a woman marriage is a positive thing you're now allowed to look at a woman do you understand my point but there has to be something by the way you sometimes even forget as you're focused on a point in your mind when you're walking you're going to see a woman there's avenues of knowing how a sister looks do you see my point yeah it meant you needed her side of the approval that's my point that's what was holding Mughira back and she gave it to him she said if the Prophet allowed it no problem this issue some of the علماء have even transmitted إجماع which issue this whole discussion the covering the face and the إجماع here seems to be two types إجماع which is قولي and إجماع which is عملي when I insha'Allah تعالى concluded that final point and then you can bring your points insha'Allah تعالى some of the scholars who transmitted ألجويني who did a 470 80 جرية he said إتفق المسلمون the scholars Islam are unanimously in agreement على من النساء من الخروج يسافرات الوجوخ that the women should not leave with their faces uncovered لأن النظر مضينات الفتنة because looking is is a cause of fitنة محمد بن إبراهيم الوزير who did a 840 he said واجماع the unanimous in agreement على وجوب الحجابي للنساء the woman has covered herself من الوزير إبن محمد بن إبراهيم الوزير that's what his view was إبن الرسلان الشافعي ودادية 844 he said اتفق المسلمون على من النساء أن يخرج نسافراتي عن الوجوه is unanimous agreement by the scholars that a woman should be prevented from leaving the houses and travelling and going when their faces are uncovered لاسي مع عند كثرة الفتنة especially when the فتنة are a lot بدردين العيني الشافعي he said يجب عليها الحجاب من الرجال الأجاني بالإجمع إبن المبرد الحبري he said ويجب عليها ستر وجوه واجهها إذا برزت يعني إذا برزت هيه منت إذا خرجت حتى لسن just to show you that some people they think the niqab is just a a happy practice I'm trying to bring different people خليل أحمد أصحان فوري الحلفي or we study in Dioban he's a Kitab called بدل المتحود رشارح سنع بدود he says ويدل على التقييد كشف الواجه بالحاجة اتفق المسلمون he said اتفق المسلمين sorry على من النساء أن يخرج نسافرات الوجوه لاسيب عند كتة الفصاقي وظهوره that's what he's mentioned the Mufti of Pakistan محمد شفيع الحنفي he said وبيلجملة this is not a happy Saudi practice it's a وبيلجملة فقد اتفقت مذاه بالفقها وجمهور الأمة على أنه لا يجوز للنساء الشواب بين الأجانب ويستثنى منه العجائس ريخوله تعالى والقواعد من النساء لا ترى آية شخص عزيز من الباز he said وقد اجمع علماء السلف the self unanimously agreed upon على وجوبه ستر ستر المرأة المسلمة الوجهة وانه عورة يجب عليها ستروا إلا من دي محرم لاستئج مع قولي من الباز they say the self unanimously agreed upon cover their faces unanimously agreed upon the self الصالح three noble generation خلاف came after there's اجمع عملي that was اجمع قولي they stated it like that there's اجمع عملي action wise This could just go in اجمع قولي first of all اجمع عملي as well go go go go go go go go go go go go go This is the this is the this is the this is the This is the Pro Sierra of the history of Car organizations of the history of المفصل اللغوي ودادي 745 هجرية يقول وكذا وكذا عادة بلاد الاندلس في الاندلس سباين ما دادي سباين بورشغيل ونور ديسلان بورشغول and stuff like that الاندلس في الاندلس كلهم عادة نورهم كلهم لا يظهروا من المرأة إلا عينها الواحدة وانا يوجد شاوة ابن نور الدين الموزعي الشافعي ودادي 825 هجرية إيسا لم يزل عمل النساء على هذا قديما وحديثة في جميع الأمصار والأقطار فيتسامحون للعجوزي ويوجد only person they gave an exception to is a woman who has reached an old age في كشف وجهات انقبها face and her hands ولايتسامحون للشاب لدادي never allowed the young youth ويرونها عورة ومنقرن and they all saw it to be what an evil thing for her to do it ابن حجر العسقلان ودادي 852 هجرية إيسا استمر العمل على جواز يخروج النساء للمساجد والأسواقي والأسفاري منتقبت This is what the nooms was ليقل لا يراهون الرجال so the man called see them he also said in another place ولم تزل عادة النساء قديما وحديثة the women's nooms before and after يسترن وجوها هون عن الأجانب that they will cover themselves from the men so the شاهد the neck the chest the legs even the hair والله the face is a greater fit than all of this ستقن if you just saw a woman's neck by itself no shower would come from this side حتى إذا أردت أن ترى a woman's chest by itself it won't be her two legs lie by itself it won't be desires I need the first thing a man wants to know the first beauty is the face بالإجماع this you could say it's an جماع majority of the people I want to know how she looks for face to face حتى to the extent you understand a woman ترىها باستخدامها باستخدامها before we move on to the next part of the podcast إن شاء الله تعالى where you might one of us ask some couple of questions I just want to mention as a side point and I think it's important that the statements of ألمام مالك and شافع and أبو حنيفة okay we have to understand that when they were speaking about the عورة of a woman's face and hands and whatnot they were only talking about the prayer and this is the statement of the فقه شافع محمد المزوغ I mentioned it before who died in 825 he mentioned that he said والسلفو كمارك والشافعي والأبي حنيفة وغيره من أظنهم لم يتكلموا إلا في عورة الصلاة they were only talking about عورة in the prayer and then he said after that وما أظنوا أحد منهم يبيحوا لشابتي he said I don't think any one of them would allow a young girl young girl تكشف وجهها لغيري حاجة to uncover her face without no حاجة so I want that point to be understood and I could bring the statement of أبو بكرة الجساسو from the علماء الحنفيه I can bring سرخسي أما سرخسي هواوي ونسي where he said الناس في الحنفي where he said ابنه نجيم الحنفي where he said على الدين الحنفي where he said ابنه عطية from the now moving to the ماليكية ابنه عطية الماليكي where he said about this issue I've got his statements I've got شهاب الدين النفراوي الأزهري who's a Maliki and where he said about this issue from the شافعي I've have بيضاوي where he said about this issue where he said about this issue لست الشافعية الحنابي لأبقى شيخه الإسلام ابنه تيميا and he many places where he رحمه الله رحمة ورحمة واسعة ابنه القيم he's a student of ابنه وطيميا where he said ابنه راجب الحنبري ايبان البهوتي الحنبري with ID 100 and 1046 جريب that he mentions in his كتاب خشف القناع so I mean this is a مسأل for I've mentioned and spoken about and that's the by the way it's a podcast yeah I've got some statements here though and I think it's worth going through them because you made a claim that obviously that all of their statements were just talking about inside the صلى الله عليه وسلم صلى الله عليه وسلم عبد رحمان الملقات الملمصري reported from إمام ماليك in المدوو المدوونا volume number two page number two hundred and twenty one and he said concerning the woman in a state of إخرام if she wishes to hang something down her face i.e. then she can if she wishes doesn't mean she has to if she wishes she can and if she doesn't then she doesn't have to that's not in the صلى الله عليه وسلم that's in إخرام when we say the عورة in the صلى الله عليه وسلم is the same عورة in حج و هكذا so it's the same يعني عورة الصلى الله عليه وسلم is the same عورة المخاطب the man who wants to get married is the same عورة in the صلى الله عليه وسلم after the two hands on the face can be changed so when I say عورة عورة الصلى that's what I mean okay by the way I transmitted the statement of an Imam who said that I agree with you these great imams when they spoke about it it's all in context it's عورة in a connect to عبادة whether it be حج يعني we we refer to that as عورة الصلى some scholar فقهام mentioned is called عورة الصلى عورة الصلى is عورة الحج عورة البيح some scholars mentioned يعني خطاب when a woman wants to get married يعني it's the same it's the same one you will never find them speaking about عورة المظر that's known that's Muslim to Malik and Shafi and Abi Hanifa there's no discussion about that the woman has to cover her face okay so this first half the podcast you've actually come with arguments from your side to prove that the نقاب is واجب and from your side you've bought a lot of strong evidences آيات from the Qur'an أحديث from the Sunnah اجمع as you've claimed quotes from the scholars everything that you can think of and to be honest with you it's been strong you know if I'm being fair and just as a third party it's been strong but some people might say that are there any evidences on that other side of the equation because even though we agreed at the start that the people who believe نقاب is not واجب it's not for them to prove it they don't have to prove it rather you have to prove the obligation but if that has been proved if people are watching this and they feel like that has been proved then can we now disprove it the fact that maybe there was a time where a woman for example was not wearing and a face there in front of the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم and he didn't correct her for example things like this okay the first حديث I'm going to bring is probably the most clear and the most direct of them and this is the حديث of عاشا and the sumna of أبي دوود where أسمى بنت أبي بخل the daughter of عاشا صلى الله عليه وسلم came in front of the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم and he corrected her dress he said أو أسمى when a woman reaches the age of menstruation it does not suit her that she displays her parts of body except this and this and when he said except this he pointed to his face and in this he pointed to his hands this is a clear cut statement unlike some of the quotes that you bought an eye at and the understanding of this and that this is a clear cut statement from the messenger himself صلى الله عليه وسلم that the woman can leave the face and the hands uncovered what do you say about that what I want to say إن شاء الله يتعالى is that these points that you're going to bring are حديث which are مشكلون they are حديث which are ambiguous unclear and they are حديثs that we are commanded based on the Qur'an and Allah says هو الذي أنزل عليك الكتاب منه آياتهم حكماتهم هنه أم الكتاب وأخره متشابهات فما الذين في قلوبهم زيغهم فيتبعون ما تشابه منه بتغال فتنة وبتغال تقويل وما يعلم تقويله إلا الله ورسقنا في الألم يقولون أعملنا بيقولوا من عند ربنا وما يذكروا إلا أولي الألبا when we see clear cut texts يعني clear cut verses we should bring the unclear verses and the vague verses to those clear verses same with the hadiths there was a hadith clear cut straight to the point we take it back to those unclear ones to the clear ones and this is important rather I can do that to everything in the religion I can bring a hadith to try to weaken the concept in its total so I just want to say just because you're bringing these points it doesn't necessarily mean يعني the points evidence as I brought can be dismissed but each one إن شاء الله تعالى is not a problem to respond to it and I'm going to show that they are not إذا صحيح or they are not صريح they are not authentic or they are they are not clear إن موطنون نزع when we're discussing حديد أسماع بنتقبي بكرين that you mentioned ألمام أبو داوي narrated it and he said after he narrated it he said هذا مرسلون this is a mursal خالي ديبنو دوريكن لن يدريك عايشة خالي ديبنو دوريكن لن أعايشة so it's mursal it's a disconnected narration okay حالي that you mentioned also سعيد بن بشير narrated it from قتادة عن خالي ديبنو دوريكن عن عايشة خالي ديبنو he hasn't heard from عايشة رضي العنة أبو داوي mentioned that أصع أبو حاتم الرازي mentioned that سعيد بن بشير this man الأسدي even though he's truthful صدق he is in his like in his ضعيف in his حفظ his weak in his حفظ أحمد weakened his memorization عليبنو مديني weakened his memorization داوي weakened his memorization نسائي weakened his memorization حتى إبنو معينين he said ليس بشي يحمد معينين he said he's nothing rather he has many أحديث which are منقرات which he narrates from قتادة تبنة دعمة السدوسي as إبنو نمير and ساجي mentioned also this سعيد بن بشير is يعني he singled in this حديث from قتادة and he mixed up sometimes he narrates from قتادة عن خالي دوريكن عن عائشة and sometimes he narrates it what خالي دوريكن عن أم السلمة and أم وماذا عائشة also there is خلاف in سعيد there's a sorry there's an opposition sorry against this سعيد بن بشير الأزدي there's a who who opposed him هشامة دستوائي and he هشامة دستوائي went against سعيد بن بشير which is the one that you mentioned and he's considered هشام الدستوائي is considered أصحاب قتادة okay so he narrated it from قتادة مورسلن which means for the people قتادة attributing it to the prophet okay specifically قتادة is a تابعي قتادة دعامة is a تابعي also and هشامة دستوائي has someone else who came and agreed with me he's got متابع from معمر بن راشد عن قتادة that قتادة said بلغني عن النبي صلى الله عليه السلامة also there is another بيطبراني narrated بيهقي narrated from the chain of ابن اللهيعة yeah عن عياض ابن عبد اللهي that he heard from ابراهيم بن عبيد بن رفعة الأنصاري that told him that he heard from his father أن أسمع متعومي سن أنها أنها دخلت أنها قال الدخل رسول الله يسع على عائشة عائشة بنتي أبي بكرن فدكروا this حديث بيهقي he said اسنادو ضعيف even though he narrated نسونا الكبراء because of who ابن اللهيعة ابن اللهيعة is very weak he is in قوة الكتاب تهديب الكمال also the sheikh he is sheikh عياض is also weak individual يا حيونا معين weak in him بخارسة he is منكروا الحديث عبيد بن رفعة هي is little in حديث يعني حديث that he is actually narrated are very little so then ليس في توثيق يستحق الثق he doesn't have much praise that can be put on him he doesn't deserve to be praised also that's in term of the authentication of the hadith in terms of the نكارة of the حديث يعني now we go into the let's go to the authentication to stay on that for example because this is something that was a great حسن I think حسن نغيره by شيخ رباني or did he declare authentic شيخ ناصر did yeah not just him البحقي الظهبي المنذري ابن حجر أسقلاني أشوكاني there are a few علماء of حديث who declared this to be authentic but they did it a different way because something that the محديثون have they are able to see things that maybe obviously me and you come and even شيخ رباني agrees with you that the or not just agrees with you but agrees with the scholars on your side that the first حديث that we mentioned is منكار is not is not acceptable but what he's saying is that because we have a more سل narration and what he's saying we have an authentically attributed report to قتادة قتادة is a تابي so he's the generation after the companions now it was wrong for it to be اتابع صلى الله عليه وسلم but we do have this authentic نرايشن from the mouth of قتادة شيخ رباني said these more سل نرايشن can actually be strengthened with other نرايشن when sorry you want to finish so no go ahead we don't distance we are not against the concept of حديث authenticated another حديث يعني شواهد المتابعات شواهد المتابعات strengthening حديث ضعيف in another حديث which is ضعيف we see that to be باضيب نتايمي actually transmitted اجمع on this issue باحم الله and used the آية انتظلة احداهما فتذكر احداهما اخرى used that آية that one woman if she forgets another woman can remind her يعني the weakness in this woman's memory can be supported with another woman they both have vague ideas they become together they they used in a state in a testimony so all of these narrations لا يخلوا من ما قال all of them there's the points of concern I don't think personally that I could dismiss this weakness that's there with clear caught evidences that we have والله تبانكو تعلياني بقول ازواجكو بناتكو ونساء المؤمنين يديننا علينا من جلابي بهنا يو يعني وإذا سألتم ونمت ونمت فسألوه ونمي وراي حجاب يو I can't I can't meaning wise which you haven't gone into I looked to every senate of it يعني سعيد بنبشير عن خاليد بنو دريك عن عايشة Then I saw خاليد بنو دريك اللهم يسمع من عايشة أبو داود من شزاء أنا ها بوحاته لسعيد بنبشير من الأزدي I looked at him he's صدوق he's truthful no doubt about that لكنه is ضعيف and he's حفظ أحمد weakened him ابنو المديني weakened أبو داود and weakened ابنساءي weakened him يعني يحاولنا معيني even he said ليس بشي is nothing Then again I found that أتحدث I'm talking about the chain with Heisham for example that's authentically attribute to قتادة so and then yes so you're the one with you one is that Heisham Heisham a دستوائي I do say he's Oh considered to be one of the most strongest people when it comes to narrated from قتادة من بعامة تسدوزي لكن he narrated in مرسلان قتادة never met the prophet قتاد is attributing it to the prophet that حريت is disconnected you see that cannot not other supporting evidences for example the hadith that goes from عبدالله ابن اللهي to أسمابين أميس for example even that even though that has weaknesses in of itself but not being supported ابن اللهي as one the weakness is not just ابن اللهي as well is a شيخ عياضة again he has weakness in it يحاولوا معين or weakened to him أبو خار even said مونقروا الحديث عبيد بن رفع رفع what are you gonna do with him he's قليل الحديث I mean this is this is my contention the point I'm trying to come to is that with all of that it goes against another حديث what's the other حديث the حديث that it goes against the حديث I mentioned from you that فاطمي بن تلموذي رسال كنا نخمر وجوهنا ونحن محريماتون مع أسمابين تابي بكرين that's the problem with that but I just said أسمابين تابي بكرين yours is first of all weak أصلا it's تريخ though no but this one is clear no my one the text is more clear this one's clear look he says كنا نخمر وجوهنا we would cover our faces yes but he didn't show obligation ونحن محريماتون مع أسمابين تابي بكرين no this is a Hadith that you brought say يعني أسمابين تابي بكر wasn't wearing hijab this yeah this yeah of course you're saying that she was أسمات she entered upon the Prophet ﷺ وعليها تياب الريقاكن that's what you're bringing فعرض عنها رسولة the Prophet turned away from her and he then said يا أسماو أسما إن المرأة إذا بلغت المحيضة if the woman reaches administration لم تصلح عن يورع منها إلا هذا وهذا nothing can be seen from her except this and this so the face and hands okay good جميل these are the only two three that can be seen from her are you there so then what does she do أسمابين تابي بكرين we have your narration which is already يعني حبيبي because of authenticity here أخي to be honest according to my humble I mean ألباني is like a loan on this issue ولبعض أذى أذى ألباني is like a loan on this issue ألباني is like a loan on this issue ألباني is like a loan on this issue ذهب المنذري هل بيهق all of them authentic they authenticate all of it or يعني some of them they said for example some of them have said that this يعني is صحيح مرسلان صحيح this and that أنا شاء إِنَّعَم so the point I'm trying to say is متقدمين who have you got from the متقدمين I said is صحيح I'm saying بخاري we can did I'm telling you أحمد محمل we can did I'm telling Abu Dawood we can did I'm telling you أبو حاتي مرازي we can did دياني is at my point these are early imams and this is a مسأل I want to speak about إِنَّعِلَلِ in great details إن شاء الله تعالى I really want to discuss it which is the concept of يعني وَنَّمُتَّقَدِّمِين speak about صحيح تضعيفة حديث we have to really as the متأخذين the late commas we need to look into the issue a bit with يعني an observation إن شاء الله تعالى which is something I'm going to leave for another time okay there's one last thing that الشيخ ناصر uses to authenticate which he says all three narrators authenticated this حدي ختادة sorry all three narrators rude according to they acted upon it ختادة stated in his interpretation of the verse of جيل باب الله has placed on them the requirement to cover the eyebrows and not their faces and this is from طابري what does it say الله has placed on them the requirement to cover the eyebrows and not the faces which one which حدي is this ختادة statement ختادة from الطابري is the statement of who ختادة himself what did he say الله his interpretation of the verse of جيل باب الله has placed on them the requirement to cover the eyebrows and not their faces he's talking about في حالة الصلاة وفي خارج حالة الصلاة he's talking about the eye of جيل باب so obviously that's clear as general we spoke about the IAAT before we did yeah we spoke about that one here he's in آئشة رضي الله عنها said regarding the female in إخلام this is in إخلام she may let a cloth hang down over her face if she wishes and he says this was narrated by an authentic train which one who is this آئشة رضي الله عنها she may let a cloth hang down over her face if she wishes meaning it's not obligatory but we're saying to her there's other ways that she can do as well آئشة is saying that she can do this if she wants to cover it from here are you saying that she what she meant she can or you can use this one or use this one يعني طرخ different ways okay let's go on to the next point إن شاء الله okay the next hadith is the hadith of فضل إبن عم باس so this is reported in صحيح البخاري so insha'Allah there won't be any need to go into the authentication and this was actually this was it's not it's not just بخاري yeah okay yeah yeah جميع and this is during the Hajj of the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم so we know it's towards the end of his life after the ayat of hijab there won't be discussion that this came before anything like that a beautiful woman from the tribe of خطعام came asking a question from the Allah's Messenger صلى الله عليه وسلم الفضل started looking at her as her beauty attracted him the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم looked behind while الفضل was looking at her and the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم held out his hand backwards and caught the chin of الفضل and turned his face and other روايات is mentioned that he kept he looked again looked again and the Prophet every time the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم would move his chin as if to tell him don't look there the points that I want to get from this حديث first of all is that it mentions a beautiful woman how did the narrator which is أبلولا إبن عباس how did he know if she was a beautiful woman if she had her face covered that's number one secondly الفضل إبن عباس was looking at her and her beauty attracted him that means again her face must have been uncovered otherwise why would he keep looking at her beauty third thing the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم never said to the woman you should be covering your face and of course we know that if anything خلام took place in front the Messenger صلى الله عليه وسلم he would have to correct it instead he actually just turned the chin off فضل إبن عباس as if to say lower your gaze lower your gaze like Allah commands the men to lower the gaze what do you have to say about that one you're right this حديث صحيح and it's authentic but it's not صريح in your points it's not the way you're trying to use it as the نقاب but not being واجب it's not it's not correct يعني you don't have a leg stand on in that regard this حديث you're right أن الخث عمية this woman she first of all point number one she's a جارية that was عورضة على النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم she was presented to the Prophet her يعني she was getting that from so she was taken and in that state of in that state she was she was being presented to the Prophet عليه الصلاة و سلام to marry her and فضل on the other hand he saw her and the Prophet turned his face so the reason why this girl's face was showing number one is that she was doing it from the perspective of a woman who يعني wants to can you do that on Hajj yes you're allowed to Hajj a person a woman what is prohibited in Hajj is the خطبة is prohibited in Hajj العرضو to present or look at someone for the intent of marriage is not and the evidence that this was the reason is because أبو يعلن narrated in his Musnad he narrated in his Musnad he said كنت رديفة رسول الله عليه الصلاة و سلام وعربي معه ابنة الله أبادي ويلمان he had a daughter with him له حسناء and beautiful فجعل يعرضوها للرسول الله عليه الصلاة و سلام was trying to present her to the Prophet ورجاء أيها تزوجها his intent was for her to get for the Prophet to get married married to her then he said فضل بن عباس فجعل تلتفت إليها I will start looking at her وجعل رسول الله عليه الصلاة و سلام يأخذوا برأسي the Prophet then took his taking my head فيلوه was pushing my head away and this is أبو يعلن ريتي بسنة دين صحيح the hadith I have in Bukhari it clearly mentions the reason why she spoke to the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم she said Oh Allah's Messenger the obligation of performing Hajj has become compulsory on my father who is an old man and who cannot sit firmly on his ride it doesn't this incidents don't deny one another so you're saying that her father was with her yet he didn't speak she spoke on his behalf but she's they're allowed to speak to the Prophet عليه الصلاة و سلام no I'm with you but why would the father not speak if he's with her you're saying the father was with her right is that what you're saying her father was with her yeah but yeah the father didn't ask the question instead she asked the question with her face uncovered and before it just not just presenting for marriage she actually had a مسألة فقية as well that she wanted to ask at the same time yeah that's the problem was the issue the woman cannot speak with her father there wouldn't it be more appropriate for the father to speak I feel like you're no Islamically women are men and our men and women are both entitled to ask questions I mean it's fine she wants to ask the question her father is there no problem that's just one answer by the way I haven't seen any narrations mentioned that she just came to to propose for marriage I just mentioned that Abu Ya'ala mentions in his Musnad not in the ones in Bukhari or Muslim because there are many narrations of this in Bukhari and Muslim but we have to bring all the narrations together we want to understand the insulin in the more details but what if it's not Sakhi was there any discussion about whether it was Sakhi or not I haven't come across it if anybody does believe it Insha'Allah bring it forward we'll discuss it number two is the point and the second response to حديث الخطعمية is that she is a Jariah she was a slave girl ترميدي narrated that بسندين صحيح an authentic chain عليمي بطالبين narrated it مرفوعاً تحاوي narrated it an authentic chain from عبدالله العباس that she was a Jariah تون شابتون she was a slave girl that was young and the Arabs they considered the word جارية to the ima they refer to it as a slave girl they don't refer to as جارية to the حرائر the women who are free so and the word جارية by the way the reason why it's used is that the girl because she's a slave girl she's moving from one person to another person just like the Arabs they refer to the boat that يعني because it moves from one place to another they refer to it as يعني الجارية because it's moving الله says إنه لما طغل إنه لما طغل ما وحملناكم في الجارية وصول الله تعالى يسزو من آياته الجواري في البحركة الأعلام وله الجواري وله الجواري المنشأات في البحركة الأعلام because it moves okay so she's a جارية that's what it said جارية شاعة شاعة so she was a slave girl with her father and she wanted to know if she could perform حج on behalf of her father there's many incidents there's many narrations that indicate many points that were not first of all she was being presented to the Prophet عليه الصلاة والسلام of course the Prophet could take her slave girl and the Prophet then could free her and then marry her which he did with جوارية number two the second one the second one was that she was a slave girl and the second one the first one was that she was being presented to the Prophet as a wife and a man can look at a woman's face that's why she took off her نقاب you know if she was if we take the first narration that she wasn't a slave girl she was just being presented to the Prophet by her father this shows that she was not wearing نقاب because of that reason and the Prophet understood that before number two sorry earlier on this podcast you said that the men were not attracted to slave girls you said that clearly and casually at that time you said فضل إبن عم باسكلي said he was attracted to her beauty I'm saying to you there are each situation I'm taking it differently I'm saying the first reason the first reason is that she was being presented to the Prophet as a free girl the second reason is that she was a slave girl forget the fact that she was being presented to the Prophet okay let's talk about the second reason how can she be a slave girl فضل إبن عم باسكلي was attracted to her and you said the men at that time were not attracted to the slave girl the attraction here is class I told this before a man might see a beautiful girl and say when she tells him she's from that particular culture or that country she might say sorry I don't want to hear it okay the third point I'm trying to come to is that I'm not saying that the slave girls are not attracted I'm not saying that I'm just saying when I looked at the عادة العرب and the culture of that time is because of how they used to see things point number three is the third point I want to mention is yeah, this is the third point I want to use it for which is the first third point this حديث I don't know من استدل به أهل القرون الثلاثة ثلاثة عبارة تقومني ثلاثة like this حديث wasn't yesterday I haven't seen this حديث used for by any إمام من آيمة السلف على مسألة كشف المرأة الحرارة الوجهة a free woman for free for her to free her show her face like that not one of them I haven't seen it what they bring it is they علماء is بنظر الرجل لا لكشف المرأة the issue of the men looking at the women lowering your gaze I've seen that by the self that the man has to lower his gaze and not look at a woman you see it but the issue of يعني the woman's face was showing and the work face came and by the way for us to not find that from the Salaf al-Sadiq when they tossed and turned over every مسائل حديث they scrutinized they got everything they can squeeze out of it why did not Malik say it why did not Shafiq they say why did not Ahmad say it why why four imams of al-Mathafs are followed today not one of them use this حديث we know these مدهب I mean where the way that they are now okay let's move on to the next one which is talking about the حديث of the woman at the عيد صلى and her cheek been shown so this is a hadith that talks about the prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم addressing the women after praying صلى الله عليه وسلم and giving them advice and then he was actually saying that the majority of help I will be taken by women when you read this حديث again this was in صحي مصم and maybe in other places it's بخاري مصم right maybe بخاري مصم حديث جابر right yes it's حديث صفعي الخدييني okay yeah yeah okay hey حديث جابر hey and a woman having a dark spot this is what I want from the حديث the حديث is long about this is what I want from the حديث a woman having a dark spot a woman having a dark spot on her cheek stood up and said why is that so so a woman now حديث صلى الله and we previously took that you mentioned that the women would only go to Israel with their جلباب you mentioned that earlier and she took and specifically mentioned that she had a dark spot on her cheek how could her cheek be shown if okay so a few things I need to mention the first issue that I want to mention إن شاء الله التعالى is that the حديث stated and he mentioned the صفع الخدييني صحي the word صفع الخدييني it refers to a woman who's senior in her age this is a very important point شايد she's من القواعد النساء she's not a youth no, not in my version where does it say that if you look at the wording of the حديث does not say صفع الخدييني okay yeah yeah yeah I've got that so what does that translate to صفع الخدييني means refers to a woman who's old in age wrinkled face and to prove that it means wrinkled face is أحمد when he narrated and نساء narrated from the حديث من سفلات النساء صفع الخدييني أحمد when he narrated the حديث of like that النساء يعني a woman a person who's old okay ألمام أبو داود صري narrated in the sunan من حديث عوفي بن ماليكن الأججعي لدى رفص العليس عليه وسلم أنا ومرأة صفع الخدييني كهاتيني يوم القيامة وأوما بالوسطة والسبابة امرأة أامت من زوجها دات منصب وجمال حسبت نفسها على يتاماها حتى بانو أو ماتو حديث يمتل صفع في حديث I just mentioned right now أنا ومرأة صفع الخدييني ماذا يفهم؟ يعني a woman who's old a woman who's aged also if we take the view that okay it was not then it's referring to as يعني صفع means black and some of the scholars they took from this that it was a ima, a slave cow because she was black? yes the majority of the slaves or a lot of the slaves were were that color and it's not some not racist comment I'm trying to put out there I myself am dark and black but that's the narration what he mentions now okay the next one I have is the hadith of Aisha in the darkness and this is a hadith narrated in Sahih al-Bukhari and possibly other places as well narrated by Aisha رضي الله وعنها the believing women covered with their veil and sheets used to attend the fajr prayer with Allah's messenger صلى الله عليه وسلم and after finishing the prayer they would return to their home and nobody could recognize them because of the darkness and the thing that I want from this hadith is that she said nobody could recognize them because of the darkness if they were covered their face was covered if that was the case then she wouldn't need to mention because of the darkness nobody could recognize them because they can't see their faces she specifically mentioned because of the darkness so yeah the hadith first of all number one the hadith just because it wasn't mentioned that the women just because it was mentioned that the women could not be recognized because of the pitch darkness doesn't mean the face was uncovered I don't see how that's a leap not really if you think about it why would she need to say because of the darkness she said the woman's faces couldn't be recognized because it was known at that time according to you that every woman was in aqab anyway so what's the issue why would she say the woman's face couldn't be recognized because of the darkness that would be a completely unnecessary statement do you get do you get where it's coming from I know why can't why can't we not say then if it's pitch darkness and a woman's place walking in a place where there's no lights on she can uncover her niqab as long as she knows no one can see her I'm saying she can uncover niqab anyway yeah so I'm saying to if hypothetically what we say is the case يعني maybe they did it with anyqab because of the pitch darkness and no one could recognize them not to mention صلاة يعني they're going to the salah that they're going to pray right صح yeah so could it mean that we couldn't recognize each other why else we were in the prayer no it says I'm sorry it couldn't mean that after finishing the prayer they would return to their home and nobody could recognize it because of the darkness it's not talking about in the prayer definitely no but it still doesn't it still doesn't mention it still doesn't prove my point it dismissed my point they prayed the salah صح yes they prayed the salah but you haven't mentioned it was on the way on the road you can have a look at the Arabic have a look at yourself if you want yeah I came across the hadith but I'm saying it to you is at that moment we're in the mischid why their faces no no no it says returning right doesn't mention after finishing their prayer they would return to their home of course they would return to their homes if you finish the salah and nobody could recognize them so we're obviously talking about I don't to be honest this for me is a further first like forest I mean weakest argument that شيخ ناصر bought one of the weakest arguments that he bought in the issue of not نخابين واجب there is another narration he brings and also that mentions in the Muslim of Abu Ya'ala we would not recognize each other's faces what he means by this it was so dark that the faces were shown but we couldn't recognize it because it was so dark no it was because they were in نخاب but why would why would she need to say we would not recognize each other's faces if نخاب was where she been it was well-known that they were always in نخاب she wouldn't need to say that it just do you understand like why would she say these things is she very strange statement say maybe there was senior women who didn't have to wear نخاب in there maybe there were slave girls that she's referring to يعني ما دخل با احتمالو سقطة با الاستدلان what you're using احتمالات the possibilities and he can be dismissed we've clicked evidences on the scene المرأة عورة the woman is عورة حديث الله يدني علينا من جلابي بهنا وإذا سألتم ونمت عن فسألو ونمي ورائه يجب نصريه قاربك to the point where the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم سلم سيقين now okay there's the next حديث here is the next is the next is the next is the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم stayed with صفية for three days on the way on the way of خيبر on the way to خيبر on the way صفية was في وكانت في من she was amongst those who were ordered to use a veil it indicates that she was from them not meaning that the wives of the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم it was for them but not for all women because the statement says she was from those who were ordered to use the veil from those as in a select group now the word mean it was used right in حديث وكانت في من في من from those from them she was from those who were what ندوري با علي هل خيجاب so do you believe حجاب نقاب دوري با علي هل خيجاب if that's what you believe right صح in the I but I I'm saying it but according to you that it doesn't mean it if you admit it here that we can bring all the no no problem I'm saying if according to you and you know like I'm saying according to your interpretation how doesn't this make sense that she was repeated one more time for me again وكانت فيمن دوري با علي هل خيجاب she was from those who the خيجاب was واجب for for example دوري با is that what he says English translation no no it says فيل was amongst those who were ordered to use avail I mean the Arabic is better to use yes so that's fine I it doesn't it doesn't have an I don't have an issue with the issue she she was from them huh huh because it's talking about the sorry let me go before that okay it's talking about women who are on their menstruation who have to cover themselves women who are not on their menstruations are not slave girls don't elderly women don't have to when they cover the context of the حديث though it's talking about it's the professor marriage he so the professor stayed with Sophia for three days on the way of where he consummated his marriage with her you know Sophia was amongst those i.e. he's just been married now okay he's just been married now she becomes amongst those who had to wear those who don't have to wear it yeah but though there are those who don't have to wear it I'm trying to get from the concept حديث is the marriage took place and then she had to use a veil that clearly shows that it's specific for the wives of the prophets of the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم but if you say هجاب are you say what about the other No, I'm not saying that I'm saying هجاب according to you includes the face but includes everything yeah just everything so let's just take it as what I said but let's take even yours because it's make it yours you're saying his هجاب right and let's just take it there if we say that does that mean before that she was her hair was showing No, I'm saying هجاب means لقاب it means only according to you not just لقاب though everything else right so then if we say she was not wearing no nothing before that okay but in this context it's quite clear because we're talking about marriage and we know that the wives of some you you don't my point is you're missing my point I'm just going with you okay I'm saying to you before this was she not wearing هجاب نقاب No you say نقاب he he's really هجاب for me هجاب means all of it I'm saying everything okay you do see right according to me هجاب means not the face covered even for me it means the whole everything it means the face and everything okay for you it means everything except the face okay so if you're taking my my interpretation of it هجاب here means the face the hair so what she not wearing no هجاب on her hair as well do you say my point not fully because I'd like like Sophia you said for her the word here is use هجاب but obviously he's understood by it's نقاب but we know that the prophet's wives have to wear نقاب that's something that we both agree on but no I'm just don't have to wear just نقاب no not just نقاب I'm talking about everything as well when هجاب is used yeah we say that the wives the prophet doesn't fully have to cover don't we don't say نقاب they have to wear it so they have to fully cover yeah fully entirely the face included do you understand my point why would why would it say this that they and she's from the women who have to wear it and she was not underaged she was not a young person that's number one number two she's a free woman she's not a slave because of some of the process of some of the women that he was with was slaves they were not يعني they were not حرائر are you with me from this free people so this is other indications yeah okay so the summary of the حديث is that she was married to سعدي من خولا who was one of the companions of the messenger of Allah صلى الله عليه وسلم and he was present at the battle of Badr he died during the farewell programage so again this shows us after the I.A.T of خجاب she gave birth before four months and ten days had passed since her husband's death when her nifas ended أبو أسنابل a man from Banu Abd al-Dar went to her and said and saw that she had adorned herself so what sheikh nasi was taken from this حديث is that he saw that she had adorned herself I.A.T meaning the face was uncovered it's number one yeah someone come to he said perhaps you want to get married before four months and ten days has passed he like it looks like you want to get married she said when I heard that from أبو أسنابل I went to the messenger of Allah صلى الله عليه وسلم and told him my story the messenger صلى الله عليه وسلم said it is permissible for you to marry when you gave birth so again he's trying to say is that the messenger صلى الله عليه وسلم didn't correct her and say you need to cover your face or anything like that there's many responses to give I'm just going to stick to one easy one the first one is that سبيعة الأسلامية she's a mola she was a slave girl she wasn't a free woman and the aim of the seerah I mentioned that Ibn Ishaq said that Ibn Hisham said that الواقدي Ibn Haban Ibn Abdulbar I mentioned it البلاذريو Ibn Farajil Ibn Al-Jawzi Ibn Muhammad Ibn Habib Ibn Antheer Ibn Al-Rahim Ibn Allah Ibn Al-Jawzi and they this just they differed upon her أصن إشي من كلبن or إشي من مذجعين مذجعين or إشي مولا من موارف هارسين there's dispute so that's the quickest and the fastest response I can give that issue let's go on to the next one which is a hadith of سهل بن ساعد a woman came to Allah's messenger صلى الله عليه وسلم I said messenger of Allah I've come to you to entrust myself to you I'd like she's kind of proposing him is what obviously is what's going to be said Allah's messenger صلى الله عليه وسلم saw her and looked closely from her from head to toe he then lowered his head when the woman saw that he had made no decision in regard to her she sat down they stood up a person from amongst the companions and said messenger of Allah صلى الله عليه وسلم marry her to me and then the hadith goes on but this is the main point that I want to get from the hadith so we have a woman now and yes she's proposing for marriage but she's uncovered her face as per the hadith as you can see from the hadith because the prophets some looked at her face and then looked her up and down as well and then the companion was witnessing this was witnessing this as well now you said earlier that a woman can obviously in proposing of marriage she can uncover her face she can do this in an open in the market street in the street this to this hadith that you mentioned حدي سهل من ساعدة ساعدة رضي الله تعالى عنو doesn't show her face was uncovered it just shows that the prophet looked towards her face direction and what works against you in this hadith is that يعني فصوّب النظر the prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم he rolled his looks at her from the bottom of her legs he started from and then he فطاقة به رأس and he put his head up so if we say that okay if we take your argument on board which is the reason why he looked at her face was because it was uncovered then I could say to you why did he look at her legs was that uncovered as well and we already took from حديث بن عمر رضي الله تعالى عنو that the prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم he said منجر ثوبه خيانا لم ينظر الله إلهي يوم القيامة ومسلمة she said يا رسول الله فكيف يصنع النساء بذو يوليهنة يرخينا شبرا فقالت he said إذا تنكشفوا أقدامهنة and then the prophet فا يرخينا وذراعا لا يزيدنا عليه بيحاق he said فيها دليل على وجوه بسطري قدميها so the woman has to cover her legs by each معو we don't differ on that so just the fact that the prophet looked at direction doesn't mean that her face was uncovered okay secondly is that maybe she presented herself to the prophet عليه الصلاة و السلام to show him how she looks and she wanted she took off any garb and she wanted the prophet to see her صلى الله عليه وسلم for marriage was a specific situation again for marriage but there are other companions there as well maybe she didn't intend for the I mean the anger that she was standing maybe she didn't intend for the other sahabes to see her and he is a restricted issue to the issue of marriage now okay last one حديث in صحي مسلم why are all those narrations only Hajj marriage you know all situations like which we already mentioned عورة المرأة outside these places are different from within these situations now sorry okay صحي مسلم the adultery of the eye is the lustful look question is how can a man look lustfully if a woman is fully covered from head to toe a man can look lustfully by just إلا ما ظهر من her whenever things become apparent from her he looks at those things or he looks at يعني اكترنو other things from a woman's حجاب when she covers herself he looks for those little things that show unintentionally he becomes lustful over that you know also it could be a man who's evil enough to go out there and look at women whilst they're in their houses and cover you know uncovered he tries to look for those moments whilst they're in the kitchen and he opens you know he looks under the peeps under the door and etc it could be those moments now okay I'm conscious that we've obviously spoken for a long time I'm going to move on to some closing questions and then I'll give you an opportunity to summarize إن شاء الله and we can close out the podcast the first question I have is we mentioned at the start that this is a valid difference of opinion the first time on the hot seat I think we discussed an issue which genuinely has a difference of opinion that is valid the question is if there is a situation like this can the person just pick whatever choose whatever side that they want to if it's a valid difference of opinion if the person doesn't have knowledge he's يعني low in terms of the DNA it doesn't have much understanding if he trusts a person he knows and he's locally ma'am he trusts him and his ma'am he's يعني no problem but if he's watching if a woman is watching the podcast and she's like you know I don't really want to wear a niqab it's a valid difference of opinion I don't she can't stick to it no okay she has to look into must and and the opinion she takes has to be built on what she believes is strongest in terms of evidence yeah okay but it's that's some people can't read the evidence is can't understand the evidence is they could just take the photo of their Shaykh they're just okay what if a woman believes niqab is wajib but she fears being attacked like in some western countries you know you have people who are specifically targeting women with niqab is this an excuse not to wear it if that woman believes it's wajib then she should do hijra she can't practice her religion it's from the symbols of Islam if she can't no longer practice her Dean of Islam it's clear for her that she can't no longer live in that country that's if she believes it's wajib and we do the podcast on that but what if she's from those who aren't able to make hijra where the fact that she's not married she's under the care of her parents financially whatever reason إن شاء الله وقرنا في بيوتك كنا just stay at home إن شاء الله إن شاء الله إن شاء الله إن شاء الله make دعادر الله lifts this stress and hardship from you now what if it's not a fear of safety but she fears that she's never going to get a job she's always going to be seen out as an outcast of society this is you know this is i want to get some tricky questions tine husband and wife now what if a. woman believesうん niqab is Sage if she. believes obligatory but the husband doesn't no And he commands her not to wear it now she doesn't هل تعلمتها ب virtue من سيارة الخارج؟ إذا لا تراه ، تخبرها يجب أن ي快د أن يشعر؟ ربما تكلم ، هذا يعني ، لا يمامAhmoud حتى لو بحياتاً تخبرها لن تجد it كل ما يضعه في نظرها هذا مرة أخرى ، إذا ربما تتكلم أنه يخبره مرة أخرى ، والأخي تعتقد أنه يجب بلك لكن الشخراف لا تحسن يمكنك ان تسكلم how do you exile that with the husband being in the shepherd and in control of his family إذا هو شكرا لك لك أنه أنت. إنه تتأكيد عن هذا السؤال. أنه يأتي إلى الشيء. أنه يمر بالقرآن. لا ينبغي للفقية. يحمل الناس على مدينة. أنك لا تستطيع أن تجد أفكاره. يمكن أن يتكلمها. يجد أن يرسلها. لكن أنك لا تستطيع أن تضعها. لا. أخبرنا. سأقوم بناء وقام نشاهد من الغرباء. إذا كنت أحدث بك. أنا أخبرنا نشاهد من الغرباء. أن أقوم بعمل هذه المرة. أنه حيث يؤكد بأن حياتنا المحافظة أنه يقول من الشبهر which when they say that in an issue like this the burden of proof is obviously as we agree that the start is upon the one who makes it obligatory and this is an issue that affects so many people affects half of mankind, if not more, is the majority of mankind are women and effects them on such a frequent basis anytime they leave their house and even when they're inside their house if people come to visit them who are non-Mahárim and it affects them whether they're rich whether they're poor whether they're black whether they're white whether Arabic non-Arab whether حيث أنه موجود في مجرد الإسلام و نحن نعرف that our religion and one of the proofs for our religion being true is that it explains every single aspect of life in detail and indeed that's some of the reasons why for example some of the companions took Islam because it explains things like how the etiquettes of going to the toilet yet we have this issue and it is not a not one single clear cut command or prohibition in these words from Allah always messengers صلى الله عليه وسلم that tell these millions and millions and millions of women cover your face or do not reveal your face it's not a single statement like that instead we have ayat we have a hadith which have to be understood in a certain way we take this word and the meaning of this word is that and this scholar said it was this and this scholar said it was that and of course the principle is if there is an evidence that could be interpreted this way or it could be interpreted this way then it cannot be used as a substantive proof to bring an argument forward if that discussion stopped there and we went through all of the ayat and the hadith in that fashion and it got to the conclusion that there's not one single clear cut text then there's nothing that the side of the I'm representing have to do after that there upon the usal however it doesn't stop there they actually bring forward a hadith from their side that we discussed in the second half of this podcast which obviously you've responded to but they bring a hadith that they believe categorically and clearly shows that the neqab is not wajib because there were women at the time of the messenger صلى الله عليه وسلم that had their faces uncovered and he didn't command them to cover it and we went through them in the second half of the podcast having said that there's strong proofs on both sides you have your proofs they have their proofs and the principle in Islam is ideally you'd reconcile between the evidences and there is a way of reconciling between the evidences and that is to say the neqab is strongly strongly strongly recommended but it is not obligatory that's a summary from this side of the table I want to give you the opportunity if you'd like to take it I know you've done a good job masha'Allah throughout the podcast if you just want to summarize it on your side I'm happy for you to do that and mainly my focus is that there are clear cut evidences and authentic evidences I mentioned seven ayats from the Quran eight ahadiths I mentioned some of the ulama that transmitted each ma'a qawli I also mentioned that this is a ijma'a which is a عملي that the Salaf al-Saleh رضان الله عليه وسلم all of the women at that time were he neqab also I mentioned that this issue of يعني نقاب you know it's a matter that's connected to fit and trials and tribulations and the biggest fitna of women is the face number one that's the first point then everything else comes right after it so يعني our sister should really focus highly on covering themselves up wearing يعني the way the clothing that Allah sanctioned for them if you think today as a sister if you think today that you are going to wear what you want and I promise you even before you leave this world the shroud that you will be covered with your face will be covered your hair will be covered so يعني there's a lot of virtues in being a person who's covered and be shy and the clothing Allah gave you is a blessing you're going to be asked about يوم القيامة make sure that you يعني cover yourself our mother عايشة الله عنها you know she was buried the prophet was buried in her house and then her father was then buried after the prophet then the narration mentioned when Umar was buried in that place she said كنت أدخل بيتي I used to enter into my house I used to say this والذي فيه رسول الله the prophet was in this و أبي my father و أضعوا اثيابيا I would take off my clothing يعني و أقولوا I now then say و لما دوفين عمروا معهم when Umar was buried with them فو الله يسوي بالله ما دخلتوا I never entered it إلا و أنا مشتودة عليتيابي حياء من عمراء and I did this because of shyness so this shyness is a quality that's from each and every one of you cover yourselves يعني what shocks me and I'm going to conclude with that is that إبراعباسل he mentioned to his students one day هل أعطأوا ليكم من مرأة من هل الجنة هل أعطأوا ليكم من المرأة من الجنة و أعطأوا سبسيفيكلي قلتوا بلا أفكوز تاومي هاده المرأة والسودة أتتي النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم when she came to the prophet she said إني أصلاعوا and by the way this is one of the evidence they used to say that the woman's face was uncovered but that's not strong there are you can tell a woman's color from her face even if she wears نقاب فقال she said إني أصراعوا I am a woman who is who faints I have epilepsy وإني أتكشفوا I think that's the reason it's not strong anyway فدعوا الله لي make dua for me some scholars they said her illness was why she was seen as well then the prophet said إن شئتي صبرت ولكن الجنة maybe if you be patient فقال she said after that she said إني أتكشفوا she's sick فدعوا الله make dua فدعا لها believing women she's ill our ones are healthy and the concept of taking clothes from the people and their skin showing was a punishment for Adam and Hawa that was what she's done when it achieved from all of that so sisters إن شاء الله be patient upon your clothing don't let the west will lie to you and deceive you be conscious of what you wear and the way you dress and don't get fooled by the 20 or 30 or 40 or even 70 years that you live in this dunya when it meets you on the other day on the other side it's very big but ask Allah to keep us steadfast on this the haqa and the truth and to forgive our brothers and sisters wherever they are in the world also I don't want to use this as a means in no way shape or form to belittle sisters ridicule sisters that's not my aim isn't that and I know that the hearts of us is between two fingers of Allah tosses and turns in the way he wishes الله تعالى سبحانك اللهم وبحمده أشهد ولا إله إلا الله استغفرك واتوب إليه