 The chain reaction process in the reactor creates tremendous heat, which scientists have learned how to control. It was really a patriotic thing to harness the atom. I was excited about nuclear engineering because I thought it would solve the world's energy crisis. When everything works, there really a terrific way of making energy. The problem is that everything doesn't work all the time. Japan's nuclear nightmare continues. A second hydrogen explosion at the Fukushima Daiichi Nuclear Complex destroyed the reactor's exterior. All three Daiichi reactors have nuclear fuel rods that have been exposed to some degree, so they're teetering on the edge of a meltdown. Fukushima kind of stirred everybody to the reality of what nuclear power could do. There is no source of energy in this world that doesn't have risk associated with it. Our job is to protect public health and safety and never have an accident that jeopardizes public health or safety. Einstein said that nuclear power is a hell of a way to boil water. It is toxically poisonous to humans for 250,000 years. I keep saying that number 250,000 years. It's ridiculous. It's mind-boggling. Groundwater down there is being threatened and potentially the river water is being threatened. The regulators have known that this design is incapable ofwithstanding an accident since it was built. A very famous nuclear attorney told me, he said, Arnie, in this business you're either for us or against us and you just crossed the line. Literally from that day forward I could never get work in the nuclear industry. It's a blacklist. Nuclear whistleblowers are not protected in this industry. When you're doing the right thing, you don't realize that a corporation is going to be so vicious and use all of its money and power to shut down the truth. We have a lot of explaining to do and we have to rebuild public confidence and trust. We're operating a nuclear power plant. How can you trust a company who has really not taken seriously, in my opinion, the fact that we have leaking nuclear waste going into the ground? Brattleboro to Montpelier, 126 miles in 11 days. In the dead of winter I felt, wow, this would be really precious footage that would show the commitment, that would show people's really deep concern about this issue, so I decided to film. I thought, originally, well, I would film this and then maybe months or years later I would actually make the real film, but little did I know that events had other plans for me because literally halfway through the walk of the activist to Montpelier was when Entergy announced, this was in January of 2010, that there was a massive leak of radioactive tritium into the groundwater below the plant and that announcement set off a political firestorm that then began lots of attention, lots of hearings and ultimately a vote in the Vermont Senate and so I was basically filming nonstop from that point forward. Robbie, let's bring in Maggie Gunderson and Arnie Gunderson here and could you tell us when you came to meet them in the course of this because the tritium leak leaps out at me. First of all, I wouldn't call it a tritium leak because it had all sorts of other nasty toxic, which is a group of radioactive chemicals, cesium, strontium, cobalt. The NRC would prefer to call it that, but it's much worse than that. But I didn't know Robbie and Maggie and I were testifying in the state legislature and there's this guy with this camera and over the years we've got to know him pretty darn well. That's true. I was particularly impressed by seeing Arnie and Maggie testifying at the state house. That's where I first met them when I was filming there in hearings and I was impressed with their courage to speak truth to power for decades and really facing enormous pressure from the nuclear industry to silence them. I knew immediately when I met them that they would play a major role in my film. Speaking of roles, Arnie and Maggie, could you tell us what role you played in the closing of Vermont Yankee? We're still playing a role today because Vermont Yankee makes this film so pertinent today. We did a lot of testimony. Fairwinds Associates, our company and Fairwinds Energy Education leading up to what happened at Vermont Yankee in its shutdown. But now, Energy is trying to sell Vermont Yankee to North Star for decommissioning and that company has never done any decommissioning work before. It's not prepared to do it and we don't believe it's prepared appropriately. Arnie's done tremendous amount of work on decommissioning nationally and internationally and I'll let him speak to that issue but this power struggle is a documentary about what happened to date but it's still going on and Energy is trying to have Arnie removed as an expert witness as well as Ray Shattis as an expert witness, the two most experienced experts in the state of Vermont on Vermont Yankee and its issues. So Robbie, you've started off a real hornet snister. You know that it happened in Vermont? I think it makes me proud to be a Vermonter when I watch the movie and thank you for your comments about our courage. Having watched the film, it really does have Maggie and I as one of several protagonists and our long story of our battle with the Nuclear Regulatory Commission becomes part of Robbie's story. And in the film, I believe that it goes by the storyline. Robbie, you follow the story as it's happening. Yes, I'm actually chronicled the story over a five-year period through many twists and turns and I would say the underlying theme of the film is about grassroots citizen empowerment. Really, it was the citizens of Vermont rising up, getting involved, making their voices heard, taking action that made all the difference in what happened with the outcome of Vermont Yankee. And can you think of, well, there is one particular person in that grassroots movement who is spotlighted in your program. Could you talk about her for a few minutes? Well, there are many people, many activists that I do profile in the film, many groups involved. However, in a film, a film works best, a documentary film works best when you're able to make some personal profiles of particular activists. And one of the activists that I do profile in the film is Francis Crow of Northampton, Massachusetts who was 93 when I first started filming her and she's 98 now and still going strong. And so in this next clip that we're going to watch, she's featured in that along with many other activists as well. Just to give you a taste of the power of grassroots activism in this story. I'm Francis Crow. I'm 93 years old and I've been involved in trying to say no to the splitting of the atom and all of the consequences of it since 1945. When I heard about Fukushima, you know, I was devastated. I felt I got to get there and really put my body at Vermont Yankee because it's our potential Fukushima. Well, I've done everything that I know of to do and all I have left is my body and to put it in the way to say no. There are times when you feel something so strongly that just holding up a picket sign or just attending a rally or demonstration is not enough. You want to speak with your whole life, your whole body. And so we are placing ourselves in jeopardy, jeopardy of being arrested and possibly jailed in order to make the strongest statement that our consciences call upon us to make. Our struggle about the will of the people to decide what's best for them. It's a political struggle about the basic fabric of our country. It's just about democracy. So this is about whether people's voices are going to be heard. Many of you are working on is one of the great struggles of our time to create an energy future which protects not only our generation but a safe energy future for our kids and our grandchildren. That's what we're talking about. What we are also talking about is the need to transform our energy system away from nuclear power, away from fossil fuel into energy efficiency and into sustainable energy. In Vermont, if we shut down Vermont Yankee, if we move to energy efficiency, if we are aggressive about wind, solar, geothermal, biomass and other emerging sustainable technologies, this small state can lead America in a new energy direction and lead the world in that direction. Robbie, can you tell us what you learned from working with Arnie and Maggie Gundersen of Fairwinds Energy Education? Well, I just want to say that I've been thoroughly impressed by the really important and critical work that Arnie and Maggie are doing through Fairwinds. And in particular, they have been the leading advocates for nuclear safety and in particular, investigating the Fukushima nuclear disaster. And why this is relevant today is that Fukushima is an ongoing disaster and the contamination from Fukushima is not only going to affect people in Japan but people here in the United States. And in particular, what Arnie and I hope that you can talk about it now, Arnie, is what you're learning about the tiny radioactive particles from Fukushima and how, if they're going to create this dust by this rubberization process at Vermont Yankee, how that can actually be a total threat to people in Vermont and people in western Massachusetts. So I'd love to hear you talk about that. Yeah, thanks, Robbie. The thing that I learned, and I've been to Japan now for two months in the last couple years, and we came back with lots and lots of samples that were analyzed. And the important lesson that I learned in Japan that's directly applicable to Vermont Yankee is that the rubberization process, grinding up this concrete and releasing it into some fine dust, increases the exposure to people about a thousandfold because the little tiny particles are much more damaging when they get into your lungs or liver or inside your body than they are if they were captured in large blocks of concrete. So actually by rubberizing the concrete at Vermont Yankee, it will in fact make the exposure to people in Vernon and the people downstream on the river even more severe. Okay, and Maggie, can you talk about the film? Yes, and we hope you'll all go to the VTIF site and get tickets so you can join us at the film. And afterwards, David Goodman is the noted journalist and radio show host, is the moderator for the panel. And you'll get to hear more all about what's happened in this film about democracy and action in Vermont, Power Struggle, and why it's so pertinent today. Maggie and Arnie, could you go into a little detail about the process of the closing of Vermont Yankee? There was a time when there was a denial of underground pipes related to Vermont Yankee, and that was one of your discoveries in that. Well, the citizens, as Robbie mentioned, had a right to forbid Vermont Yankee to run after its 40th year. The state in 2009 convened a public oversight panel and I was the chair of that panel. One of the issues we asked Entregy was that they have underground pipes and they told us no. Well, I discovered a little later that after our report was written that that was not true, and the very next thing that happened is one of these underground pipes that Entregy denied having leaked and spewed caesium, strontium, everything else into the ground water. That led to the Senate under Peter Shumlin to vote against allowing Vermont Yankee to run beyond its 40th year, and that was a high point on the journey for Vermont Yankee shutdown. There were many twists and turns after that, and Robbie chronicles them all, but at the end of the day, Vermont Yankee shut down, and I think after 42 years of operation. And so, Arnie, they stopped operations at Vermont Yankee three years ago, in December 2014. So what's happening now with the decommissioning and why should we be concerned about this? We should be concerned because the activism needs to continue. This state needs to have a voice in its future of what's left on the site, and Arnie can explain the technical aspects of this rubberization that North Star wants to do, and it compromises Vermont's pristine environment. What they're proposing to do is to take the concrete from the nuclear reactor. Just think of coffee beans running through a grinder. To take the concrete, grind it up, and throw it out back on the site. So the radioactive concrete is going to be left on the Vermont Yankee site. If the sale goes through, the entity has said in previous legal hearings that they would never use this rubberization. But here's North Star seeking to overturn Entregy's commitment to the state and throw this radioactive rock back onto the Vermont Yankee site. And I don't think that's fair. And also, because the groundwater then will carry that cracked material. The radioactive isotopes are re-released and will carry that material to the Connecticut River and in the groundwater and towards the aquifer. That is tragic and fearsome. And Robbie, the film will be shown on October 29th, Saturday at 3.30pm at the Main Street Landing 60 Lake Street in Burlington, Vermont. It's in the film house of that building. And it's part of the Vermont International Film Festival. And people can find out more information at vtif.org. That's the website for the Vermont International Film Festival. And there will be a forum. And tickets are also available there. And they may need to buy tickets online ahead of time. So it's really go to vtif.org, buy your tickets and come see this wonderful film that is very current today. And we're going to have a post-screening panel with Arnie and Maggie Gunderson. Also former Vermont State Representative Tony Klein, Chris Williams of the Citizens Awareness Network and Clay Turnbull of the New England Coalition who will all be there to discuss what is happening now and why Vermonters should be concerned about what's going on at Vermont Yankee with the decommissioning. And also one of the reasons why I made the film is not only to document this, I think, historic citizen grassroots action activism having an effect, but also to be a warning about the future because the reality is that the high level nuclear waste is going to remain on the banks of the Connecticut River indefinitely. And this is true at every single nuclear power plant facility around the country and around the world. And Robbie, what are your hopes for how the film will be seen and used? Well, I hope that the film will be used as a catalyst for discussion, for education. In fact, I want to do a whole grassroots film tour. I want to travel around Vermont in particular and show the film. So if there are people out there who can help set up community screenings in Vermont or in New England and also around the country. I'm wanting to show this tour with the film around the country. Please contact me. You can contact me through the website powerstrugglemovie.com. That's a good place. Again, the website is powerstrugglemovie.com. Okay. Thank you very much, Robbie. And to wrap it up here in the studio with Maggie and Arnie Gundersen, who are in this ongoing struggle. Could you say a few last words about this? I would like to see Robbie's film go national. What we're seeing in Arnie's study, a tremendous amount, is that nuclear power companies, corporations, are using decommissioning as a moneymaker, but at the expense of the communities. And across the country, this is even more pertinent, that citizens in every state need to work to make sure their voice as the real stakeholders is heard. They need to see power struggle and see democracy in action. And my last thought would be that I view this as not a nuclear movie, but how citizen involvement and speaking truth to power on any issue is critical. Okay. Thank you very much, everyone. Thank you, Robbie Lebser. You and Burlington on October 29th. Thank you, Arnie and Maggie. And thank you viewers. Go to see this film, Power Struggle, the film. Thank you for hosting us, Mark. Thanks. Goodbye for now.