 Podcast was roundtable round 87 building community But before we start it's no Daniel J. Lewis today, but there's an extra new Daniel J. Lewis. I think it's not a coincidence that baby noodle It's a boy was born on a podcast around table day. I don't think so. He's just trying to take his dad's spot So he's actually building community. He's building. I think it's good. I think he's creating it Yeah, which was actually I originally titled it creating community. So yes building creating interacting community We're doing a lot of community here today. Terrible. All right Well, we have a cool lineup and I'm gonna try to stay out of the way today I hope I can just direct traffic because we have like three people I've been trying to get on the show for a long time and then of course, they all say yes on the same day Which is killer, but so this should be really good Let's meet the round table starting all the way on the end Christine welcome to your first roundtable. It's so exciting Thank you so much. I tune in frequently awesome. So my name is Christine Blackburn and my show is story. Were they Very cool. Yeah, co-host extraordinaire Dave. Welcome back Yeah, Dave Jackson from the school of podcasting calm It's hard to control my giddiness that we have noodle, baby, but I will I'm this will be fun to I'm with you. I'm just gonna sit back and listen. I think on this one and I'll be like I don't know. I'm not up on my baseball names But the guy that that puts them in from three points every now and then and just Yeah, yeah, it's basketball, excuse me Yes, so it'll be careful because I can't hold you wish for because noodle babies come for your job and that's it I'm apt to give it to him. I mean it won't take much. I just want to know who has more hair at this point Daniel or the baby. It's a good question. It's gonna be he's got a little hat on. We saw the pictures. That's all right Kevin welcome to your first round table. Thank you very much Kevin Batchelder from tuning it to sci-fi TV calm And I have to give major props to you ray I looked in my emails and the first time you and I exchanged about the possibility me coming on was two years ago yesterday Wow, awesome. We're here. We found you and you did not give up every few months I got a message about this one about that one I love that you just kept coming at me. That's how you do it. Nice. All right. Well, that's you know the goal I mean if people take the time to sign up by the way podcasters round table comm slash guest sign up be like Kevin be like Troy be like Christine and Let me know you're out there. We'll get you on to around eventually might be a couple years Hopefully not, you know, that's the dilemma. I've got three great round table is new round table is here and It's hard to give everyone enough time At the same time it's hard to bring on only one person because then it's hard to get everyone that you want to get on so That's maybe there's a maybe there's a tie in there to what we're talking about tonight But Troy welcome to your first round table. Hey, thanks so much for having me Ray I love the email to last studies like you need so much like advanced notice, but can you come on tomorrow? Sure Something's going on I got everyone sort of on and off podcast day. Yeah, we blacklist is off tonight So this was a great week for me. Obviously Troy Heinrich from the blacklist exposed my big flagship show Also finished up Packers fan podcast just this week Unfortunately losing to the Atlanta Falcons and we did a new one this year called Beyond Westworld for HBO's Westworld Which is fantastic and you can also hear a son remake this movie right at me re remake this movie right calm Which is a new project we started up about a year ago. Are you in Wisconsin? I am in Wisconsin. You can tell well The Packer thing. Oh, sure. Yeah. Yeah, and I'm a Steeler fan, so I'm kind of right with you There you go. I know it was rough. It was rough and I'm a Cowboys fan, so I'm kind of glad you're not Yes, so now's not a good time to say that I'm from the Boston area. That's all right. Oh, sorry Sorry when you're breaking up there and all of that. I'm saying go Atlanta because come on was the last time Atlanta Come on. Sorry. Sorry, Boston. You have enough This isn't the sports round table So we'll jump out of this and get to business building community. I think I'm jumping off of a topic speaking of Kevin and trying to get on her a long time and Kevin I kind of asked you What maybe you want to talk about everyone lists what they might want to talk about and you said what did you say Kevin? What do you have experience in? Well, in my case, I've been doing I've been podcasting since 2005 and virtually all the stuff I do or almost all of it as Troy knows very well has to do with sci-fi and fantasy TV shows and some stuff on movies So I've been doing podcasts about individual shows and early days of when I was podcasting But for the last eight years I've done one that covers all the sci-fi and fantasy shows We're approaching episode 500 here. So we do it weekly And I've had a great opportunity just to create communities around these podcasts with other passionate fans It's been very interesting over the years in terms of how that kind of changes social media coming in video becoming a Big part of a lot of things. So I just thought it was something would be interesting to get several of us talking about And that that was actually speaking of you mentioned you made a hint of knowing Troy There was a cool connection You said I sent out the email had your name people got in contact said I you're gonna be on the show And then you guys saw each other or Kevin saw Troy's name and you guys know each other from other shows So community right there. I mean we just created community serendipity right here on the show Yeah, I had the pleasure of moderating Westworld podcasters roundtable at Troy set up I've had a lot of fun Getting to know a lot of podcasters and certainly in sci-fi fantasy area where I've kind of become In a fun way the go-to guy to moderate your podcasters round table as I've done about a half dozen of them for different shows over the last couple of years Very cool and Troy, what's your what would you say is the show that has the most fan engagement? Then engagement has to be the blacklist for sure I mean even though we have more listeners for Westworld, but it was kind of a zeitgeist thing last fall When you take a look at what the blacklist is able to do true story Sad story. We actually had a member of the community passed away from cancer Just last weekend and the outpouring of people that knew this was woman Lulu She has her own hashtag red lips for Lulu. It was just a fantastic outpouring. We did a moment of silence on the show We're actually working with the writer's room to hopefully potentially write in a character Into the TV show itself for her as kind of an homage So that would be really great if that actually does happen. So very excited to see what comes out of it Yeah, that's very cool. And do you so what's the number way you interact with those you say? I say an engage engagement. What does that mean to you when I say that engagement for us is truly talk back Because if we're putting stuff out there, then it's just marketing if you're throwing up your instagrams your snaps your tweets Whatever it is It's really the fact that you actually get the convert conversation actually started in moving and then people jump in on that Conversation and the big thing that we do there first off is of course be where the people are and that's Thursday nights 10 o'clock Eastern on NBC on Twitter and we actually communicate with everybody including the room is tweeting at the same time and the actors So that gets up a little bit of conversation And then it moves from there after the episodes over over to our Facebook group where we keep the conversation going long into Friday and into Saturday when we release the podcast episode Do you so you you say go to where people are is it better for you to go to Twitter and have the conversation Do you have tried to drive those people back to your site like in a live stream set up? Oh, no, we absolutely drive them back. So Everybody's watching the show Conversing on Twitter as the show goes on for that hour and then the last tweet We actually put out at the end of the show is literally hey You got stuff to say call this number go to this Facebook group go to this website and keep the conversation going And that's how we actually get all of our feedback for the episode when it comes out on Saturday Very cool. It looks like Christine's got a little I'm so sorry I just had a guest come in and he is a fan of the show. Thank you Andrew. Hi, and I'm on I'm doing a live thing on YouTube right now It's very exciting. There's a lot of people listening so I can't engage with you right now. However thousands hi Please leave the materials and we will discuss later and there is money at the door. You're so quick and funny man Hi boys. Hey, so Christine. I want to know on for your show. Where do you have the most interaction or do you have? Okay, I do have interaction and for me personally. It's in the live storytelling shows that I do here in Los Angeles I have been in person correct live storytelling shows exactly With the guests primarily in other words when I book a when I produce a show out here I don't I don't put anybody on the show who hasn't put on my podcast So right off the bat. I you know kind of keep the community that way. I'll talk to you soon. Thank you, man Thank you And you left everything. Yes, okay Sorry Anyway, so so right there with live storytelling and I have fans come out right there and we chat after the show And so that's part of it and then of course, you know, like you're all discussing social media and Twitter and of course I have a A a mailing list every week and that helps as well and I've returned every single email every single email I take the time I say dear dear Susan dear Ray dear Troy. I talked to them each single person I respond every single day. So so is there a point where that becomes not possible? What unfortunately it hasn't yet. I mean, I I guess that would be a good goal, right? Well, no, I mean, you know, yeah, I guess I guess you would say that I mean, I don't even check that I don't check the email But well, I do check it every day and I do respond every day. So Right now it's possible and I do it and I enjoy it and the people obviously are the whole reason why I'm doing what I do. There's no way I could have a podcast. I mean, it's a labor of love is is part of it But also you have to have that audience Well, I mean because we could talk into the ether right and not have a conversation with anybody who listens Or but it depends on what you want and if that's what you choose then God bless you You know, then you should then you should do that sort of show, but that's not what I want Kevin, do you how do you know Where your community is if outside of the feed the podcast that goes down into the feed Getting in touch with those members of the listeners. How do you even know where those people are? Well as everybody's been saying as we all know everybody has their social media favorite place If they're using something of that so as always happens you end up with having Presence in all these different places, but with all the different shows I've done over the years You just kind of have to wait and see where it develops In other words, I've been very active more on Facebook than Twitter some years and other years it flips Sometimes it's a forum which have kind of gone away to Facebook groups So the one thing certainly as a podcast you need to do is make sure you're flexible and and using a lot of these Because you have to wait to see where your audience is too. I mean in our case much like what Troy was talking about We do a podcast for the TV show of a sci-fi show why known earth Which has exploded for us We started doing the podcast when the show was airing the cast much like with the blacklist was very active in live tweeting So that show was on 10 o'clock on Friday nights after a couple of episodes You know we putting out regular podcast getting some good engagement there Twitter was where things were exploding I said well, you know, it seems like everybody's all amped up on Friday night for the show I want to keep talking about it. What if I did an after show a video after show on one of the video? Platforms no idea if it's gonna work or what's gonna happen We had a great relationship with the cast and the showrunner and they would come on the video chefs After an episode or two we started having hundreds of people show up every Friday night for that and most of them are on Twitter So we knew that's the spot to be but that developed an audience right there and Exploded in terms of the feedback we started to get on the podcast obviously too because everybody felt much more engaged So we kind of did it audio. We did some video very much on the social media But for example that Fandom is huge on Twitter and not so much on Facebook. So as I say I've tried to be very much a chameleon and get comfortable in different spots. So, okay So, you know that maybe a show is big like Troy You know that tons of people tweet about Green Bay Packers on Twitter But how do you connect with the actual people listen to your show? I mean, how does that happen do people just say Dude love the show and then you know or do you try them? Is there something active to sort of make that connection, you know, we have that connection But we don't really know those people are right. So how do we make connections beyond the podcast? I think for us It's been really great just knowing that there's people out there on Twitter that are at mentioning him back and forth And then we'll actually private message them, you know either directly on Twitter or if we know him on Facebook When Facebook Messenger came around it was really fantastic so that we had this conundrum of should I be friends with my audience or not? Be friends. How do we manage lists and that just became way too complicated now? The fact that you can actually message somebody without being friends with them we can have these personal conversations So we always ask them like, you know, where are you from? You know, what's your favorite? You know singer music something just one thing that's either not sports or not blacklist or not Westworld And then we kind of keep a spreadsheet of that stuff So we know who people are as we're having those conversations So we know when people's birthdays are coming up and if we have their addresses We try to send them a birthday card if we you know have enough information about them We try to get them looked in like we were able to connect with this case with Lulu with her passing away We're able to connect with her sister over in the UK and so we're having us conversations with UK people So we have this world conversation, which is fantastic all because social media enables that and it just allows us to have really deep You know bonds with these people that when the show ends We'll be friends for a long time afterward Yeah, I mean, that's my other thing too like we do a podcast. I think probably what max once a week I mean for probably everyone here, maybe you have multiple shows, but any single show and Really your audience is out there all week Do you guys find that they want more content or they want more interaction like I'm always this show is bi-weekly and my other show Is whenever so but I'm always pushing out content every day almost so I have the interaction with my audience I would say it's kind of scattered but Christine. What are you? Well, you know, it's interesting I'd like to address this um first of all podcasting as we all know is like constantly changing right so we can't you can't be rigid in Anything you do because it's gonna be different tomorrow. It's breathing. It's a living entity that Like your friend Lulu who passed away. I mean that's whether your show is An evergreen show or not that happened in a topical way and you're talking about it So it's just it's very I think important to to definitely address address your audience However, and by the way, I was gonna say one more idea is when people list their names about who emailed them or whatever I think that that helps as well. Just to mention maybe who who who commented or who said something nice I don't do that enough, but I should but what I was gonna say is a few years ago on story-worthy You mean on the podcast. Yeah on the podcast. I think it's nice to run down people's names. Yeah, I don't do it enough I should but it's it's nice I think it's I think it's a nice thing to do for me. It's about time. I'm always trying to make things tighter and shorter Because for me, it's about bandwidth, but that's another story what I was gonna say is a few years ago 2014 I tried an ex I tried an experiment. I Thought to myself. I want to increase listenership. How can I do that? Well, let's see I love Adam Corolla Adam Corolla is on four days a week You know in his ace broad on his on his regular podcast four days a week So I listened to Adam four days a week. I listen to Mark Maron twice a week He's on twice a week. So I was getting what I wanted I was taking all the content they were offering and I was listening to it and consuming it So I assumed that the story where the audience would be the same So I made a commitment for five months to double down on my shows and I did I did two two brand new shows every week 40 shows in five months. I Did this thinking this is going to if I get a hundred thousand downloads now. I will have two hundred thousand downloads And I made this commitment and so I didn't back. I wanted to back out. I didn't but I did it, but I'll tell you what Yeah, it was a mistake because Unfortunately, I gave people a choice Who would you rather listen to today specifically from my show because my show is live store our story is telling true stories So people were thinking well I don't know do I want to hear from Dave Keckner or do I want to hear from Yaakov Smirnoff? And they didn't necessarily listen to both. I gave them an option and so It's kind of like we have to value our listeners time so much. It's like I love Westworld right, but do I want to watch it twice a week? I mean, maybe I do because you could listen to it I realize you can watch it in a in a whole block now But let's say the show modern family or a sitcom I give 30 minutes a week too. Okay, so If modern family was on twice a week, I don't know if I would watch it twice a week So it's a very fine line Yeah, and I mean I'm sure it's different for every audience like you said it's dynamic too So you you know, I think I'm always telling people you have to experiment You have to try to really find out what your show wants to be Yeah, the audience wants it to be wants it to be so, you know, it seems like as I'm sure as a result You pulled back from that and you adjusted I did but now look I've got all that back content and I do have an evergreen show and so I'm always I'm always my back catalog Is completely valuable to me so it all worked out in the end But I'm just saying it's you just have to try different things you can't worry about failing It didn't if it doesn't work so then it doesn't work change your mind Best part about podcasting. No one's gonna pull the plug on you. Yeah, except you pretty much for the most part But so does anyone I tried a forum once it was a disaster because spam It's just a disaster, but does anyone run a forum Kevin? You mentioned things went to Facebook We've we've had a forum on our tuning into sci-fi TV sites when we launched it, which I think was 2007 So Facebook wasn't quite as big with groups then and there was decent activity with you know As we often say our hardcore Audience that was very engaged and wanted to talk about topics in our case TV shows or our episodes But that usage has dwindled to almost nothing everything has moved to Facebook groups and any time I see a new site from a podcaster And I see many I saw one just earlier this week Who's who said he wanted to set up a more enhanced website was thinking about putting the forum there instead of the Facebook group Almost 90% of the folks comment it back. Hey, I love your podcast. I'll keep listening But if you move the discussion to the forum, you'll probably lose me because Facebook is so much easier and it's an ingrained part of my day So they're already on it. They're already on it for everything else. It's like home for everything busy. Yeah, I'm busy I'm busy. I'm busy. Do I have time to go to a forum just for your podcast probably not well And there's you know, the other thing about that too is for me I don't even know primarily where the majority of my audience is but I love Twitter And it's easy for me to handle the interaction on Twitter. It's quick. It's right on my phone. It's very simple I'm there all the time. So yeah, you know, sometimes it's about Sometimes succeeding can be Or failing can be based on do you actually use it yourself? I mean I tried snapchat It's great for what it does, but I don't find myself returning to it Instagram Twitter. I'm there I mean, I tried it doesn't try. Yeah, we'll just swipe left and it might not work So, you know, I mean Troy do you guys you I think you talked about various platforms Do you find yourself having to be on platforms that you don't necessarily enjoy using and you were there because the audience is there Or how do you deal with that? I think it's more a matter of trying to figure out what content you're gonna put on those platforms So I know I'm not a big Instagram user in my personal life But absolutely Instagram is the thing that we used for the 11 22 63 a look-back podcast for Hulu Stephen King time travel show But then it becomes a chore Said you don't use it now. What about, you know, how do you how do you we're producing a podcast? That's a whole ton of work Especially if you're not getting paid for it, right and then you have to then go out and do these other platforms That can be that can kill a person be in terms of their show it can But if you look at how much time we waste in a given week I mean, there's probably a good 10 hours of time just doing things like waiting for soccer practice or Standing in line at the grocery store. The deli counter is forever backed up I don't they staff it specifically to know that if there's only this many people waiting There's only one person working and if there's a hundred people then there's a hundred people working But there's so much time we waste just standing around in places that because we have our phones Yeah, where I'm gonna be an Instagram person I absolutely want feedback for my show for content so I can flush out my show and Do things like a question of the week. So what do you think of red? You know did did did his cook, you know Dembe is his partner Did Dembe betray red this week? And so then all I have to do from that is why I'm waiting in line using word swag or something is Just make up a little picture of Dembe and type some words on it Did Dembe betray red and then that goes to Instagram because of Twitter goes to Tumblr goes to snapchat goes to Facebook All these places and I only had to do that once Posting but then I can use something like buffer as buffer grows out to be able to post all that stuff as well So just a matter of managing and scheduling and it really isn't as big as you think it is The question is is do you have the time to engage with the audience once they start answering? Yeah, if you're gonna put it out there You definitely can't be like an echo chamber right Christine come on you said yeah It just depends on it depends man It completely depends on what you want right because like we were talking about before some people don't care if They have an audience they don't care if they make any money They just want a podcast for the sake of podcasting so let's say that there's that group But I'm talking about the people who are focused and really do want to make money Social media being the number one tool unless you're you have money and you're advertising on your own in different ways Or even if you are advertising you're probably using social media and the Facebook boosts and things like that It is Incredibly important to post per site different things every site as we somebody said a little earlier is very different I tweet incredibly different than I post on Facebook and Instagram is a whole nother boat So it's it's to me. It's and when I see When I see a Facebook Anything what on any single social media if I see beside it that they used hootsweet or buffer or anything else I I turned off because I know that was a generic post. I know it wasn't intimate I know it didn't it wasn't for the platform. I'm on And I know it was a shortcut. Yeah, I think and that's a little bit of a Gary Vee model there Like he talks about you know being What the platform wants to be being native to that platform and you know, I like that too And so I guess it's a balance between trying to do too much, right? We're trying to be everywhere where you are using something to cross post versus really being present on one And I these are decisions, you know The beauty of the show is like everyone has the different ways they do it for their show and people watching can take back Advice and decide, you know, I want to do it this way, you know, who's it's a great great tool for me And someone else is like no, I just connect. Well, don't get I use hootsweet every day I'm a huge hootsweet fan, but I'd never post to Facebook in addition But I do all my scheduling social media wise on on hootsweet. Yeah, because I definitely and I'm definitely in In that mine think as well, but I'm from Instagram I tweet out every Instagram from Instagram So it does and part of it is like it is part of the part of the thing is I am trying to build my Instagram I do like seeing a native photo on Twitter, but again, these are things you balance No, right or wrong Dave. Yeah, it is how there are times when you have Platforms that like I like Facebook. I like to comment on people stuff I'm not a big messenger guy and I was surprised that I got a Somewhat important message about advertising Via Facebook messenger because a lot of times a lot of the stuff that comes through on messengers like yeah, okay Whatever and so now I'm like wait hold on I got to start paying attention to messenger now because if people are gonna start putting because I'm old school man Send that to me an email some place in Gmail where I can sort it later and tag it and label it and all the other fun Stuff and I'm like, ah crap Don't put that kind of stuff in Facebook because that's the worst place right now to contact me It's like I have two different Facebook accounts. It's it's a mess over there in Facebook land But now I'm realizing that I am getting a lot of interaction over there, but now I have to make sure I'm curious. I'm really curious. Why what's a mess? I just have to I have two accounts one is supposed to be for my family and friends and one is for my podcast and That's what I have. I have two accounts. It's Yeah, and I have some people that occasionally Sneak over to the other one and it gets so I need to go over it's weird I have to go over an unfriended people because originally I just had one for my my family and friends And then I started adding people that were my friends and podcasting and then it started Then the problem was I would log in and I couldn't see what was going on with my nieces and nephews and I was like, wait a minute This is getting too crowded over here So I started one for my podcast and now I have to go back to the people who are my podcast friends and go Hey, guess what? I'm going to unfriend you, but I am friending you over here because you're my podcast Wow, if you guys want to hear my Facebook trick, I'll tell you but if not, no, I won't I mean You can't say you have a Facebook trick and not tell us so No, listen, I always have at least 4900 friends on Facebook. Obviously, I don't know these people But then I go through and I about a once a month or so I drop a hundred people People that I shouldn't be friends with anyway for whatever reason and I and I have to block people now and then and stuff like that anyway but But then I get new friends and then all those friends I invite to like my Facebook my story-worthy page You know, it's all about I get My fan I get I have some organic fans that come to Facebook to story worthy But I also have a lot of my friends that are fans and so it just keeps cycling, right? So you just keep pulling them in keep pulling them in. I mean, it's all to me about duplication. It's all about duplication Sure, you know 5,000 friends if I have 5,000 friends, then I take 5,000 people on my on my you know Story-worthy page. Why not? Why wouldn't I want those 5,000 people? See, I'm a simplified person I'm like one account because for me. I just made up a rule I just said it unless I meet you in real life or in this case if we do these kind of things Then yes, you get the entry to the walled garden of my friend list on Facebook Otherwise, it's just it's my personal brand page or it's my Facebook groups But messenger made it so easy now when someone sends me a friend request I can literally just reply to them and say hey, thanks so much for the friend request I really want to chat with you and have a conversation with you Let's do it over here in this medium I said that as we get to build up a relationship then they actually earn the right to be a Closer friend in your network because it could you could have those crazy listeners out there There are there are a few of them. So here's here's the question because this will all be different next year, right? And there'll be a new alarm or there'll be a new way to filter friends or whatever So how do you deal with that? Do you how do you move people? You know, like I said I've Instagram recently enabled multiple accounts. So now I have a podcast helper account as and I have my personal account So I didn't really do anything podcast related on Instagram because it was just my personal now I do I want to do everything there because I absolutely love it So it was easy. I didn't have to I'm moving people moving people. I'm telling it on the podcast I'm saying on YouTube. I'm trying on Twitter, but next year to be something else So what do you guys do to sort of combat that and always having to kind of move people around and Build the same community on another platform Well, if I can I got a couple of thoughts to go back a little bit, but also to tie that forward is that I See a lot of podcasters because there are so many platforms and I see it in the action the chat too is that They just put out post about when they release a show So there's no real engagement. It's you advertising you stop But you've got to have More than that. It's got to be and it doesn't need to be personal You don't need to be given out to address or or taken, you know snaps of the steak You have to dinner, but there needs to be a little more regular engagement there On the topic that you're covering so that the people feel like they're comfortable with you and they're engaged with you So then that comes in very handy Ray Or in my case if I'm doing new podcasts on other topics a lot of people will follow me to them Because they already see an engagement to what's going on So it's not as much of a wall or a you know what I'm saying So I think that's what helps a lot to get folks to move around in my case between Podcasts or platforms is just making sure and Troy hit the nail on the head for me too Time-slicing, you know, I do IT work if I'm stuck in that server room for a half hour watching some pop Software install I can get away with catching up on some Twitter things So it's not taking away quote real life's commitments or family stuff But it is finding some time to do it But it'll often be things related to it to just go out on the feed That folks then look at because a lot of folks will tell me when they're thinking about following they go to your main page For example Twitter and they look down to see what kind of posts are there and all they are is a once a week post about I just put out a new podcast. I like what's the point And the 10 TV shows you checked into that you were watching Into how long has Troy been doing this he's got four square references Shacks in yeah, Troy and I can see those going back on each other's page Yeah, and you know, I've I've there's a big Podcaster who I really like and I noticed that his Twitter feed turned into all of a cross post seeing so-and-so posted a new audio It's like I don't care. Yeah at all. So yeah It becomes unpersonal or impersonal. I Not that interested. Yeah, we were marketing with clamor when clamor came out really big Dave remembers these stories and It just got to be the point where are we putting out the clamors to get people to react to the clamor? Or are we putting out the clamors because we're like, hey This is a really cool clip from my show come listen to my show And it just it felt like it became more of the marketing thing than the engagement thing So we actually backed off from doing it We'll put it out occasionally like if it's like an off week and just to get people remember that the show Is out there over the off season, you know, then we might put out some of the clamors and clips from the previous season but at the same time it's really trying to figure out a way to Tap into the communities that are in those communities that the blacklist tumblr crowd is some of the most Dedicated hardcore fanfic artsy we actually got our artwork from tumblr from a great listener out there vrkacruz and it That community interacts completely different than the community that we have on Facebook They're into the theorizing and the long form and the Conversations and then Twitter is all about you know the actors in the room and the quick quips and did you did you catch this thing in the background? And so you really have to tailor your message based on where you are as you're engaging because it's not just about posting your stuff It's also about if you have time and there's a stream of stuff going responding to people and just yes Someone was saying the other day that they started binge watching blacklist from the beginning and we're like well Make sure you binge the podcast and if you have questions Here's our email. Give us a call and let us know Yeah, let's face it to a certain degree All of us have a little bit of that you know air quotes internet celebrity because you're a podcaster or such Just replying to a thread that someone else is talking about a show or a topic that you cover to say Oh, I agree with that idea or good point even if it's not public publicizing the podcast that engagement is just People adore that kind of stuff. So that's what I talked about when it's engagement, too It's not just putting out a post about something on your show It's just reading the stream the hashtag or some of the people that you that are following you offer a comment on some topic Yeah, you have to respond to everything even if that's just a like or a heart or whatever that's you know Whatever it is you have to if you when I get ignored Online I don't like it. I really don't and I don't want to ignore anybody either I think a lot of podcasting, you know when you're talking about dealing with your fans It's just like life man, you respect people and they will respect you back. You don't waste their time. They won't waste Something about wasting time But you know, it's really important to engage in every person who engages with you Yeah, I'm sure everybody on this round table was part of a community Of another podcast before they were a podcaster Almost everyone has listened to a podcast before they came to podcasting Especially those first lawyer, you know loyal listeners that you get those people are diehard fans They are, you know, real they are they've stuck with you It's a kind of a badge of pride that they wear that they've been with you for a certain amount of time And they know podcasting and it's important Hmm we probably have the strangest story about fandom and that we actually had a competing podcast that were actually Fans of our show and then actually changed their show to match our format And because of that they actually ended up having more listeners than we ended up having and hurtled over us as the season went on So we ended up doing that round table with Kevin at the end with those guys because it is kind of a good Thank you and a switchback. It was amazing to have our two audiences converge That's some of the biggest downloads we've ever seen. That's like a love fest Troy Which is funny because in contrast then we have on the blacklist side we have all these individual Facebook groups and Everybody in the blacklist community is very protective of their group. I started this group This is the one that I'm gonna control and don't steal my stuff And you're trying to come in there is like this outsider into each of these things and you're trying to play the And it just doesn't work sometimes So you really have to tread lightly of where you can post where you can't post follow the rules because you don't want to You know literally enrage somebody because you enrage one person and they tell their friend and their friend and their friend and then Literally everybody storming your castle and it's not even your group. So a lot of times a community forms I don't know that a lot of people necessarily the primary motivation to start a podcast is to build a community Do you want to share? But you want to get on Mike and talk about something whether it whether hundreds of people gather or maybe like three other people Share that with you and that's community on you know on different levels, but What's we start a podcast community is sort of an inevitable part that you either Don't have to pay attention. You know can or can't pay attention to it depends on what you choose the kind of what Christine said But what do you think your role is as a podcaster when a community gathers around your your show that you started How do you see your role in that are you the you know we talk about fans and and you know I know oftentimes it's weird to say fans and Kevin you kind of said Internet celebrity You know we kind of it feels like that when someone says oh my gosh Thanks for you know you're so listen to your show and you're like I'm just me, right? I'm just it's no different. So my role kind of feels like especially here is to start the conversation Just stir it up and keep it going, but inevitably the community will look to you as that leader But what is what do you think your role is? You started versus now. Yeah, you're the quarterback and if you don't know you're the quarterback Then you're not the quarterback. You're the backup quarterback. Yeah, you really want to be I want to be the captain of my own ship You know I want to I want to set the tone set the mood And that's I mean that's part of the reason you probably answer every comment That's yeah, I try to do that too, but at some point it's not scalable. So I am curious where that goes Well, how about setting the level also of intelligence right and setting the level of respect again, you know It's it's it's all about what you give back and then the other stuff comes Yeah, the other thing about figuring out where that threshold is Ray because Westworld was that for us We built such a great engagement and a first-name basis and all this stuff with the blacklist side We're like, oh, yeah, we're just gonna replicate that for Westworld. It's gonna be awesome And then it became like 1,000 2,000 3,000 5,000 10,000 28. What are we up to now Kevin? 29,000 and almost 30k. I'm like I feel like I'm a mayor of a town and and then you I need to the councilman and a sheriff and a fire department and Post-squatters that just sit there and watch the thing and it feels like we're disconnected now because the group is so big and I don't know how to overcome that because I want to engage with those 30,000 people and keep them engaged for When season 2 comes out in 2018, but at the same time, it's it's so difficult because it's it's all over the world and Community kind of gone beyond your podcast I mean like they as it came together were like one over one thing and they sort of found each other and like Oh, yeah, there's a podcast too, but we have each other Right, and we have the show. Well, we have burrows in that group now Kevin can attest to we have the people that like the OA the people that hate the OA the people that love this lady's dog Her name was Kay It's it's crazy because then you have these factions and now the factions like end up fighting with each other and you're going How involved are you so you have a community how involved are you when in sort of moderating that community? Yeah, for the during the television season We were very involved because it was Sunday nights and we had a very strict no spoiler anything You can't talk about the show that night You can't talk about few upcoming episodes You can't talk about anything that hasn't aired and we literally it was a full-time job for 24 hours to Literally delete posts from the page because people never read the rules on Facebook So one tip is to post your rules at least once a week that probably be helpful Especially if you're in season like what oh well, I guess I'm sorry. Yeah, right. Yeah, it's a whole different thing It's a reality show exactly, but I mean the big thing there was just you're trying to uphold the law I am the law and trying to make sure that that happens But at the same time by doing that are you stifling conversation? We have a lot of threads because of Westworld being what it is and it gets a little sexual at times and you know degrading to women and you know bad conversations and people's dark sides come out And so we have to turn off commenting on some of those posts But we don't want to lose the content because the conversation was good conversation But at the same time do you feel like a sensor and you have to though. I mean yeah It's anti podcasting, but at the same time it's community building by doing that exactly if I've had the pleasure of being one of the admins in Troy's group there's like a half a dozen of us now that have to do the admin work in that group because of the size and Yes, I agree that it's gotten less personal because of the volume Early on we could have conversations about the show and you knew you recognized a lot of the names of the comment at 30,000 people that's impossible. Let's face it. It's human nature. You're gonna get a percentage that are just Way way off the reservation So yes, it's a little harder and we joke about how hard it is to keep up with a lot of that But it's also a case of where I know I have to take the time in a good way That I know there are some Diamonds of information in there. I just have to put up with a lot of crap as I'm reading through it It's like anything else in my forum Facebook books on the shelf at the bookstore There are they aren't all jewels, but there's some great stuff there So it just means I have to work a little harder in that community So again, so I you know podcasting is a full-time job You don't get paid for for most people I mean when you start a podcast the one number one thing is people don't realize how much work it is Even once a week that once a week will creep up on you So when you add this added layer of a community that you either expected or didn't expect and now you feel obligated to Moderate it or be in it all the time like the podcast can suffer, right? So at what point do you separate all the other stuff around the podcast from the podcast if it's it could hurt actual content creation I don't have these problems. I really I wish I did well It's true right on the head is you have to drop the hammer. I mean when I was teaching in a classroom I would start off and I'm like here are the rules. Here's the brakes Here's what it's expected and one of things was put your cell phone down put it on you You know You'll have plenty of time on break to go check your phone and the minute somebody I'd be teaching somebody There'd be somebody in the third row like this staring at their belly button like you know Oh, I'm not gonna notice you on your phone because you put it under the table And I would just stop talking and just stare at them and it'd be amazing to see how much they had tuned me out because I There was this long awkward pause of 10 seconds of silence and they would finally look up and I go You done with that was that you good? Can I move on now and they'd go? Oh, sorry And they put the phone on the thing and the minute I did that once nobody else touched their phone the rest of The day so Troy's idea of posting the rules just a general reminder and when you have to go in and say You know, hey, just so you know I deleted this post because so-and-so was self-promoting so-and-so was spoiling whatever it is You know, it's hilarious because I think I'm a pretty nice guy and there are times in my group where people go I hope this is okay like they're putting their hand out hoping I'm not gonna come along with a ruler and smack it But you know, it's if you if you set the expectations most people will abide by the rules In fact, I've had people say I was going to post this they'll email me I was gonna put this in the Facebook group want to make sure was okay gonna be like yeah It's fine. Go ahead. You know, but it's uh by doing that once everybody knows the rules then the community can just Roll it's just a matter of when you don't it becomes anarchy So I also have to give compliments on that good Troy Because one thing he recognized and I think all of us as podcasters are well aware of this Let's face it. We start our podcast. It's us. It's ours. We're gonna do it our way That's the reason why we want to do this and as your Community or your podcast grows you have to realize that if you're gonna be able to manage it without losing your life You're gonna need other people to help you And in this case with the large group The fact that it's not just him and Aaron the host trying to handle all the moderation He brought in several of us who were active people in the community to say can you help us moderate it? And he shares with the administrators. Well, here's kind of a philosophy on What things need to be censored or whatever, but we all kind of go at it differently Am I more likely to to lead a post than Than Troy maybe maybe not but he we let it grow and realize you can't put your finger on everything And this is something where the podcast is much more important than the group So you've got to be willing to be realized that I can't micromanage everything Especially we're putting it out 24 hours after it aired And there was a lot of research and effort to just do the show and have a quality show So that's why we said hey, yeah, we need some diamonds in the rough that we see out there And bring them forward. We did the same thing for blacklist We just we wanted to get that twitter engagement that happens around the show when it airs So much like kevin does the post show for one owner We actually started to do a pre-show On fire talk, but we didn't have time to do it So we found two people that were really really engaged in the group and conversation and theorizing And they actually host the show for us So it's our brand the blacklist exposed, but it's not Troy and Aaron It's actually Rory and Tori and they do a great pre-show. They have a lot of fun out there for You know 80 minutes or so right before the episode airs and it gets our name then our brand for the podcast Out there, but then you have to of course Blend it with are they having the right content? Are they saying the right thing? So it's almost like managing employees You can tell me your name is really Tori and Rory When are you going to rhyme it's a If we didn't even have a Mori or It was fun But I guess the big thing about podcasting that we really like about it is that this actually teaches us business skills so even though for not Making money with these shows or very little money or whatever it is You know, I look at it from I've learned conversation skills. I've learned management skills I've learned marketing and and that's what we take away from these things and by building that community We're finding people that have those skill sets that we don't have And learning from them and growing as people and that's just what community is all about It's just growing together So for a podcast that has just started or Just wants to build community. Maybe it's not something they've been doing or focusing on because they're producing a podcast Uh, what do you what's good tip? The best maybe the best way you've found to grow that community or Find that the community that already exists around your show Well, that'd be the first one go over to facebook type in your topic and see what Comes up if there's a group already over there and if there is a group already over there Go over there and listen first because now you're gonna run into it So then we now we're talking like growing our audience right where there's the i'm trying to get you to my show Versus the people you already have so that's a tricky one because you want to make sure you're not spamming another community Right at the same time you want to grow your show, but You start a podcast you got 10 20 100 listeners What steps should you take what's a first step in? Bringing those people together whether it's just a conversation with you or it's conversation with Everybody around the podcast what maybe something you guys have been successful at doing? From going from your show to then having that community outside of the feed Well consistency is really important You know you can't just show up now and then just like how you have to drop your show at the same time every week You have to stay engaged the same way as well Even if that means going to a place like hoot suite or whatever and and posting ahead of time scheduling I schedule all the time one resource I do again. My show is about storytelling as I You know I have I get a google alert for storytelling So every time something comes up about storytelling I have a piece of content that I can then pass on to my audience so I can do that on facebook or twitter Mention it, you know and a lot of it's very interesting Sometimes I'll get like a story like a storytelling contest will come across my page or something and I'll I'll actually take that if I have a second. I'll take that and send it to a fan I know is in a certain city. I did recently with a friend of mine in beaverton, oregon This fan in outside of portland and I said, you know, look melissa from beaverton I know that there's a storytelling, you know In your community, you know take a look the point is that engages her But also people see that like I got my eye out for you guys like I I care a little bit, you know I care a lot How did you know how did you know that person was part of this into your podcast? I think she's because writing no people write to me all the time emails and they tell me where they're from Where they listen about their kids. They show me. Oh, and I have this and all the similarities Maybe that's it. Maybe we can we get an email like that's sort of a hard thing to get people always saying Hi, I ask for emails. No one writes me, but then someone finally does right and I think maybe what you do with that Is a big deal and also you have to you know, you know Fool down your expectations and you know, it's like that slow and steady gets the what do they say? What's the what's the analogy you guys or something get something about a more the early bird gets all that stuff It's true. You know, it's patience. It's time Nothing happens overnight. It just doesn't I know everybody wants it to Yeah, I mean earlier Ray when you were saying, you know, you got that new podcast You might have a hundred listeners you're gonna tend to get excited and Expect a certain amount of feedback and it can take a long time to develop So just as Christine saying just cultivate it and realize that this is a long Game and be patient. Oh, yes. Yeah, and and just naturally if it's they share something You make a comment and whether you're good with memory and you can remember that sally likes Another show that you don't even cover or you need to put it in excel sheet Just make sure you start to know who they are And they'll start to give you Some stuff eventually but whether that's going to be on facebook or twitter You might have to wait to see where it develops Yeah, any good marketing. Yeah, any good marketing that's out there, you know, they always talk about 1% as the creators 9% is the commenters and 90% are the lurkers that sit out there You can expect the same thing from your community if you have 100 people listening to your show You're probably only going to get 1% that are the people are going to be brave enough to come Either call in comment in or write in and you just have to know that as your audience grows the feedback grows with it Well said Troy. Well said Yeah, that's part of you know on youtube I get there's a ton of comments much more because I think it's the platform enables it makes it super easy And like christine, I answer try to answer every single one of them I always have but it is starting to get to that point where it's tough So it may not be within a couple hours might be 24 48 hours But the point is I still get it done and to the extent that that builds community on youtube Yes, and no, it's a lot of how-to stuff not necessarily but you know Just reaching out and having that interaction when someone finally does comment people I mean literally we'll just say thank you for posting this and you know, I just comment. Thanks for watching I mean that's that's amazing that they took that time out of their day To uh to you know put it onto your channel or send you an email or something So I think with emails or any feedback that you get you can follow up and not just say thank you But actually follow up maybe ask them a question. Yeah start that interaction not just a Thanks and move on. Thanks for listening to my show. I'm out of here, right? I think there's just more things you can do Yeah, Emily in the chat says she says one great great way. She's found to interact is posting outside articles Pictures and videos related to the topic she's talked about so it's not her content But sometimes it starts the conversations between listeners and at that point you really are You know, you're building a community around a topic that you're talking about but you're feeding them It's nice and have to be my stuff and someone just mentioned that where I think kevin you said it's not necessarily or christine It's not you're sending them content that may not be yours But it's more at that point it's more about The community or the person than it is your show and we're all smart enough to know that actually builds your show so well and having that too in in In your show When the when the comments or the discussions do get so The volume gets up there and it's tough to individually answer them on let's say a youtube comment or a facebook group Bringing that content into your podcast in the discussion Hey, there was a great thread on our facebook group started by sally where bob and sally and sam were talking about what this character did Bring that into the podcast and anytime i've tried i've done that that just explodes the interaction because then people realize that Not only are you seeing it, but if it's a Quality enough discussion it gets on the show And it makes it harder the community go there So don't don't hesitate to sometimes and I have sometimes in our Great community on the arrow podcast Called arrow squad and we'll get you know 100 plus comments on a certain thread when we when we set one up for the newest episode We'll go through and as they say cherry pick some of the great comments or discussion points and bring them into the discussion And then the next week that's when people start bringing it up even more So you don't always have to be one to one But bring the community onto the show and it therefore creates a much more Of an appeal as well as an identification with it Which i'm going to make a declaration here right now mark zuckerberg if you take away threaded commenting in facebook groups I will come find you Which is you know, literally every other second comment on is whatever I'm going to get you for changing that thing on facebook But it is true when when you mention somebody in your show It's amazing how they will go tell other people because I know this because it just happened to me I did a video I grew up in the 80s was a big heavy metal guy and the guy the lead singer of striper Wrote a book about his life and how striper was at times a bunch of drunks, which was kind of interesting I mean and I did this thing about there are a lot of lessons in there for podcasters Well, the lead singer from striper put my video on his facebook page. I told everybody I was like, oh my gosh I'm on michael sweet and my brother's like, what is that again? What's his address and they're all going to it and things like that So so that was also on his facebook page on his break at oris. Yes Sorry, I'm kidding if you're watching what you're not. Yeah I'm sure you don't awesome The other thing is you you don't be afraid to try something with your community because there are times when you Might like I'm doing a thing this week as a matter of fact where once a month I'm going to try to do an episode that's based on audience feedback Now I threw that out there and I gave myself I think five weeks for people to chime in their feedback And I really easily could show up this week and go guess what nobody chimed in now I got lucky enough to where people did But uh, that was something that I want to do every every week. I'm going to ask my audience a quote every month God not every week that'd be crazy every month I'm going to ask my audience a question and I want that to be the last week of the month That'll be the the audience episode and and half the thing I'm doing exactly what you're talking about ray Somebody go. Hey, here's my in this case. It's my pet peeves I'm going to like cool. Do you have a podcast? Where's it at work? And I find it and then you just start a conversation So it's that's not the main reason I'm doing it I'm mainly doing it because well I would you would think it sounds like I'm lazy because I'm letting you create the content But I get to edit it all and remove all the sound clips So it's not really a lazy way to do that But I I I do want to get to know my audience more and that's the easy one I want to know Emily who just left a comment about Sinbad She says that Sinbad tweeted her and now she's a forever a fan of his but here's what I want to tell you Emily He's the nicest guy in the world And his daughter page Bryant has been on my show She's a singer and she told a hilarious story about um, it was called the title of the the title of the episode was uh Disaster on a house boat. Oh no house boat disaster something about he she was on a on a on a Vacation with her family Sinbad her dad and they were in a house boat and you know Just hilarity ensues at the end of the day the whole flipping thing catches on fire So it's a fabulous episode that he is a wonderful guy Yeah houseboats on fire. It's a new podcast. Yes Super funny stuff man for the houseboat salesman That's it down the street Hey, so as we work our way towards the end here I'm curious. We talked about all these platforms that we're on to talk to our community What's the call to action on your podcast and your but what are you guys saying? Are you saying? Hey, is it at the end of the show is the beginning of the show? Is it take you one minute to get in your content? You should like follow me on twitter Instagram I'm laughing at Emily. Sorry So as we go out Let's let me know what the call to action like how do you go from your podcast to everywhere else with your community Via your show What do you do in your show to build that community and then let us know What your podcast website is? One podcast pick your favorite, you know, I got a I got problems when I got these network guys on this 50 podcast now I think that's the time we're at everyone's You know, you start a podcast you want to start another and it's happening But sure it's a bigger favorite podcast where you think this audience might enjoy And interacting with you and then we'll head on out. So christine. Well, you know what dave? You're the co-host you have to be in the hot seat first. Yeah. Yeah call to action, buddy It's easy. I took all the different ways you can contact me and put them on one page So if you just go to school of podcasting.com slash contact pick one anyone and I will reply to it And where do you give this call to action? I usually give it any time I want like in this case where I'm doing the the Interaction episode I was I just told people school of podcasting.com slash contact You know, I prefer audio, but if you want to send me an email or whatever It's there too. So that's usually where I do it Usually it's at the end for me if I'm doing any kind of call to action in an episode Yeah, that's usually want to do it assuming that they're still with me And those people are the people that are going to want to interact So website What's your show dave uh school of podcasting.com awesome Christine What are you talking about on your show? Where are you sending people? I am sending everybody you follow me on instagram and twitter at story worthy Of course facebook at story worthy and then story worthy podcast.com and I respond to every email info at eat at excuse me Info at story worthy podcast.com. I keep it very simple story worthy. That's it And that's you know, this is one of those things that can get tricky because in the beginning We may not be forward looking enough And we can't get our name that's on twitter on instagram, you know Now these days we go and squat and all this stuff right and if it's your personal name It's harder to do so it's nice when you have your name and it's you can just say Anywhere you go you'll find podcast helper anywhere you go you'll find story worthy, right? So yes, if you can do that That's a nice advantage. Um, if not maybe dave has a great solution there where you can go Send him to first you'd be nice because you're going on your website, but then slash Contact or whatever and it's you know follow whatever it's got all of your things I find that the slash thing throws people off. I'm just saying but at least they at least they should know the first part You know, that's the yeah having a domain, right? It's as opposed to saying Story worthy tumblr.com slash follow like that's that becomes a get a domain at a minimum And you know, you could say if you optimize your site, right? If it's there when I get above the fold you can just say go to story worthy.com If it's got your follow stuff right there, so sure two different ways of doing it and it Depending on what you can and can't do so that's very cool. Kevin on a show where you what you're called action Um I tend to just work it into the conversation that way I think it's more natural rather than asking for it Although we'll certainly do that in the wrap up and have it, you know pre-recorded for consistency is As you're talking about a topic Hey, I know you guys must have a thought on what sally just did to bob in this episode or who really loved Uh, you know, what this character did if you make it natural to the conversation I think we tend to get more feedback that way rather than just saying at certain points You know, yeah, I definitely in I love working organically. Yeah, it's organic What are you doing because people are motivated by something that meant something at that point So they're more likely to do it I think that's the reason that links in text work better than banner ads, right? Like a banner is just like there's this thing that's trying to think but if you're giving someone value if you're saying You know, here is the item you actually are reading about or looking for you'll get more clicks So I think the same thing goes with the podcast if you're asking if a question naturally comes up where you want feedback And say hey, here's how you give me feedback or here's where we can interact beyond the show So I think also a good tip. Yeah, it works well that way and then on our website We just put at the very top All of those options there so they don't have to go to any slash pages or anything Just go to our home page and right at the top we'll have the different options And that's over at tuning it to sci-fi tv.com Very cool like a pro there wrapped it up and troi And if it's for the show, we do it really where the fan feedback sections are So we finish like kevin said finish that fan feedback section say if you want to give in your response for this particular thing Make sure you head on over to tumblr instagram facebook and just find at the blacklist gsm That's our handle on everything because we were lucky and got that all set up ahead of time And then if it's for personal we do it usually either at the beginning of the show depending on the format And how we run it or at the end of the show and that's usually Unfortunately, I'm still at about dot me slash troi hindrits I it's my goal for this year is to actually make my own branded webpage But yeah, everything is over there at about dot me slash troi hindrits And you can hear us talk about all things the blacklist a new spin-off coming out The blacklist redemption starts february 23rd on mbc. So check that out. You can see it all over at the blacklist exposed dot com Very cool. And I mean as you can see, you know, that's really the benefit of this show It's everyone has a different way of doing it people always want to know You know, how long should my podcast be where should I say the call to action? Should it be two minutes in should be up front? Everyone does it differently and I think it goes back to the thing You know like christine is saying experiment. You got to try something to know if it's going to work Right, you got to break it before you can actually make it work properly. I think so Try different things Take feedback from everyone you've heard here and say that sounds closer to how I'd like to do it And then do that one thing then try another if it doesn't work. So all right, well Thank you so much everybody for being on this round and 88 coming up next time in two weeks We'll see you over podcasters round table dot com sign up slash guest or just go on the website Let us know you're out there. We'll get you on eventually. Yeah, so cool that we got everyone here I can just get you guys off the list relentless. He will get you on care It'll happen. It'll happen. So thank you everybody. We have goodbye. We are out here. Okay. Bye Oh, I hit the hang of button instead of the stop button