 We move to the final item of business. The final item of business is a member's business debate on motion 1173, in the name of Ben Macpherson, on enhancing Scottish football. This debate will be concluded without any questions being put. I encourage members wishing to participate to press the request-to-speak buttons. I call on Ben Macpherson to open the debate around seven minutes. Deputy Presiding Officer, for over 150 years, as a country, we have observed, participated in and experienced the power of football in all the ways that manifests itself good and bad. We have seen football's power to unite from bringing us together as a nation, to bringing together communities around their local clubs, to bringing together MSPs today from all parties behind this motion for debate, and I thank colleagues for their interest and support. Many of us in Scotland have felt the power of the hand and roar, the excitement of the build-up to a big game, fans singing unison and the rousing of stadiums buzzing with energy in cities and towns across the country, the emotion and entertainment when loser draw, whether spectating or playing. As a player, back in the day, like most people who have put on a pair of boots and a pair of goalkeeper gloves along with the Deputy Presiding Officer, for me football gave me joy, discipline, connection and direction. Football has taken me to places that I would never have gone to otherwise. It has introduced me to people who have positively influenced my life. It has made me a better person. Yes, sometimes football does contribute to negative aspects of our society and the human condition. Hatred, abuse, violence, division, misogyny, racism and sectarianism, we must be honest that they are still present in football settings, but we must also take heart from the progress that has been made in recent decades to tackle those issues and that footballing organisations have played a proactive, positive and effective role in changing social attitudes. There are still improvements to make, especially in my view when it comes to some overcompetitiveness and bad touchline behaviour in youth football, and what's more, some stadium chatter and chanting is still totally unacceptable. On those issues and others, there are still improvements to make, but overall we should feel energised by the power of football to create and encourage positive social change and as a source of substantial individual and community benefit, especially in relation to physical and mental wellbeing. Last year we recognised all of this with a parliamentary reception and another debate. In my constituency I see the positive power of football every week, whether it's delivered by the SFAs charity partner Street Soccer Scotland or Spartans FC in their community foundation in North Edinburgh or Hibernion FC in their community foundation in Leith or Craig Royston, Civil Service Stroller, Leith Athletic and all the smaller clubs that make such a positive difference week in, week out in our communities. Let's play tribute to all those involved in local football activities across Scotland, the staff and volunteers. It is those coaches, referees, teachers and parents that create enjoyable opportunities for others to play and help start professional players careers. Similarly, let's pay tribute to those involved in running the SFA, Scottish Women's Premier League, SPFL and SPFL Trust. It is the commitment of everyone involved in both playing and organising Scottish football that has led us to the current strong position we're in today. In the women's game this has manifested an increasing success, profile and participation, particularly since the brilliant and memorable Scotland performances in the FIFA Women's World Cup in 2019. In the men's game we are of course experiencing an incredibly successful period for the national team as fans we're all looking forward to the Euros in Germany this summer. Whether it's the national team or local clubs, the importance of fans in generating and realising the power of football cannot be underestimated, because while great players make magic happen on the pitch, it is the high level of participation by supporters and the commitment of supporters groups that make football stand out as our most important and popular sport. Fans are the lifeblood of football as a major cultural industry in our country. As well as specific club supporters groups, there are a number of national supporters groups, including supporters Direct Scotland and the Scotland supporters club of which I am a proud member. There is also the Scottish Football Supporters Association, the SFSA. As the motion notes, last year the SFSA initiated, co-ordinated and published a fan-led review of the game in Scotland with a determination to seek to enhance football at all levels. I believe that this work should form part of, and I stress part of, but a meaningful part of, how we together collectively seek to build on the progress and achievements of Scottish football so far and make further improvements to realise even more of Scotland's footballing potential. The issues raised in the fan-led review matter to all stakeholders involved in the game. Most notably, the stand-out recommendation in the review report is that the governance, financing and conduct of Scottish football could benefit from independent scrutiny and, as necessary, appropriate regulation, as is being taken forward in England. Scotland's children and young people's commissioner's office has gone further in a briefing to MSPs in calling for an independent regulator with a clear focus on human rights, protection of children and ensuring that decisions are made in the best interests of all involved in football. The SFSA and others argue that, at the heart of their call, football is an aspiration for greater accountability and transparency about those running Scottish football, both nationally, the football authorities themselves and at a club level regarding who owns our sports teams. With power comes responsibility, and football should always primarily be about public benefit as it receives public money and support. It could therefore be argued that all involved in football should embrace public scrutiny and measures to uphold good governance. Indeed, the SFSA argued that greater accountability would likely enhance trust among supporters, investors and stakeholders across the game and in the wider public and propose that the current absence of thorough fit and proper checks on companies or individuals purchasing Scottish football clubs is not an optimal situation nor a desirable one. On the other hand, the footballing bodies have recently stated that an independent regulator of football is not relevant in a Scottish context and would be an unnecessary layer of bureaucracy and cost in their view. Therefore, there are different perspectives to consider. How do we move forward? As the legislation progresses in England, I think that it would probably be prudent to collaboratively, openly and robustly consider the issues here in Scotland and how to improve and progress our national game, including safeguarding and future proofing it. In that spirit, I wish to conclude by calling on the Scottish Government to seriously consider formally consulting on the various contemporary matters pertaining to Scottish football, including the possibility of establishing an independent regulator in the coming years and whether that would be something appropriate and beneficial. Furthermore, building on the work of this Parliament's cross-party group on football, which I am a member, I urge the Government to help to facilitate a round-table discussion on how football in our country can further prosper and progress and establish a working group of all relevant and appropriate stakeholders to meet similarly on a periodic basis. There is much to be positive about Scottish football, but as most people involved in football would say in a post-match interview, there is always room for improvement. Let's work together on that. I look forward to hearing the thoughts of colleagues in the rest of today's debate and to further dialogue between everyone who cares about the beautiful game and its power in our local communities and our country as a whole. We now move to the open debate. I call for Douglas Ross to be followed by Fulton MacGregor at around four minutes. I congratulate Ben Macpherson for securing this debate and for his very well-informed and speech that I agreed with. I also remind the chamber of my register of interests as a football referee with the Scottish FA. A couple of points that I picked up from Ben Macpherson's speech there, I didn't realise given the clubs in his constituency have been the clubs that I have been involved in the past couple of weeks, officiating hybs when they played forfer in the Scottish Cup and just last Saturday at Spartan B Clyde. He also mentioned the hand-in-roar that will be known to many of us in this chamber. It was certainly known to me when I fell over my own feet and tripped up at the 2018 Scottish Cup final, but there are great memories—not that one—by so many of us who are involved in football at whatever level. That is why I really welcome the work by the Scottish Football Supporters Association in an extensive effort to get to the route of some of the issues that they have identified within Scottish football and others have identified. I think that a series of recommendations—15 recommendations that we see on page 15 of the report—shows that there is a lot that, hopefully, the Government can look at, the governing body can look at and, indeed, fans of all teams and none, because Scottish football is going through a great era at the moment and I was delighted to be at our reception in Westminster a few months ago to congratulate the Scottish Fife on their 150th anniversary and Steve Clark and his team qualifying for Germany later this year. Again, I am sure that we will all associate ourselves with the remarks of Ben Macpherson wishing the team well at the Euros, but also praising the developments that we have seen across the game, be it women's football, be it disability football, be it our youth teams and the focus that we are putting at all levels at all parts of the country. I represent the Highlands and Islands, as the minister did, and she represents the far north, but from the far north to the south of Scotland there are teams, there are individuals and people committed to ensuring that our national game develops, and I will give way to that. Thank you for Mr Ross for mentioning that football is not the prorative central belt, but Inverness, Caledonia and Thyssal in Ross County have made their mark, not least nearly 24 years ago tonight, when Celtic was famously slaughtered by Inverness, Caledonia and Thyssal, leading to, by the journalist Paul Hickson of the Sun, possibly the greatest headline in Scottish or any football history, supercaligobalistic, Celtic are atrocious. If I'd known that was the intervention, Mr Ewing, I wouldn't have allowed it. As a matchfisher, if I'd known that was the intervention, I wouldn't have allowed it either. But I would just say when he mentions Ross County, that's my next game. I've got Ross County in St Johnston this weekend. At the point that I was trying to get across, and I think Fergus Ewing puts it very well, is that right across the country there are teams that some started off in far lower levels. If you look at Caledonia and Ross County, part of the Highland League, making progress through the leagues, sometimes coming back down and then getting back up again in the community field in many of these is so important, and that's why fans are at the heart of this. I know that there is disappointment from the Scottish Football Supporters Association with the initial response from the Scottish FA. If I can say in closing, I would associate myself with the remarks of Ben Macpherson to get people round the table to have a discussion. Now, I know that the Scottish FA don't believe there needs to be an independent regulator, obviously, the UK Government, and I think that Tracy Crouch's review was very positive in looking at what has happened in England. I also think that the SFSA are right to say that it's not the same problems, but it doesn't mean that there are not different problems that should still be looked at in English football and Scottish football. So I think that, as a minimum, I hope that people can get round the table to have a discussion, to look at the work that's been done here and build on this report, because our national game is so important to all of us. It's incumbent on Government, on governing bodies, and on each and every one of us to ensure that it develops in the years to come. Thank you, Mr Ross, and I call Fulton MacGregor to be followed by Jackie Baillie around four minutes, Mr MacGregor. Thank you, Presiding Officer. I'd just like to say at the outset that I give my possible advanced apologies, as I may need to leave before the debate finishes, to catch a train, as there's only one line currently on to Glasgow just now. I'd like to start by thanking Ben MacPherson for bringing this topic to the chamber and also declaring interest as a convener of the cross-party group on the future of football in Scotland, which he mentioned. I want to thank all members of the group for your continued input. I'm always keen to discuss ways in which we can enhance Scottish football, as well as give credit to the hard work that goes on behind the scenes. As others have said, we're in a big year now for Scottish football, the senior men's team. We'll be heading to Euro24, supported by the entire nation, as well as thousands of travelling fans, as they head to Munich, Cologne, Stuttgart, and you never know, maybe even further beyond. I would say to all the chief whips from the various parties, beware of requests in June, because I think they're coming in. I'm sure my colleagues across all parties are united in supporting investment and growth in Scottish football. We in this chamber often talk about improving wellness, physical and mental health, community engagement and social benefits. Football has the power to do all of these things. In trying to put a figure on the social benefits of football, EF's social return on investment study, which has been widely talked about in this chamber at various times, calculated that grass-roots football contributes an annual benefit of over £1.1 billion to Scotland. As convener of the cross-party group, I've seen first-hand the hard work that the SFA have done in ensuring all who want to play football can. In particular, the football for all strategy has been excellent in removing barriers for all who wish to participate in football. As well as removing these barriers, the strategy has launched a series of initiatives to reduce discrimination across the game, and something Ben Macpherson talks about, and thus bringing in a culture of inclusivity and diversity. This commitment to inclusivity can be seen with the SFA's pioneering decision to be the first-ever national FA to launch an affiliated association with specific remit for the Paragame. In further more, recently released statistics, which are shared on my own Twitter, or ex, as it's now called, revealed that there was a record number of participants in grass-roots football in 2023, a whopping 161,412. I know that colleagues across the chamber will be familiar with football pitches and their constituency being booked out on weekends and weeknights as young people learn the game. On that note, I've raised this in here before. I do think that there's a bigger discussion to have here around how we make sure that there's enough adequate resources to manage this growing demand, because I think that this number will grow each year. Those grass-roots investments have given us a great opportunity for the game to go from strength to strength in Scotland. Already, as we've talked about, the senior men's team is now in a period of sustained back-to-back qualifications for the Euros for the first time in nearly 30 years. Unfortunately, like the women's team, narrowly missing out in the most recent World Cup via the playoffs, but the sustained investment success will come there too. That extends to the fans. The lifeblood of the game here starts regularly to show that, per capita, there are more football fans going to games in Scotland than any other European country. On that note, last year I was delighted to host the launch of the fan-led review of the game by the Scottish Football Supporters Association, and I'd like to thank all who are involved in this work. That is, of course, the main thrust of the motion. The incredibly detailed report was the result of a mammoth effort by a volunteer team over a two-year period. The report is available online, and I would encourage members, if they've not already, to have a read-of-it. It contains a number of recommendations across several aspects of the game. We would all have different views, and some of them would agree with, and others you would dig maybe different views on. I know that other members will speak about these recommendations, but what I would say on that note is that it is important that there is a wider discussion around it, because football is very much your national support. It's talked about everywhere and every day, from coffees and pubs to speaker events and dedicated radio phone-ins. There's nobody who can avoid football whether you like it or not. No-one body has a monopoly on what is best for our game. That actually includes here, in this Parliament. What will be a landmark year for the game of Scotland? I want to use my contribution in this debate to urge the SFA, the SFSA and any other interested body to continue to work collaboratively in order to further grow the sport in Scotland. I know that all those bodies recognise that the fans are the heart of Scottish football. Let's use the report as a base to start a national discussion. I've spoken at length about the good that is already taking place, and I know that with diligent work and a club's approach, we can continue on the right path to enhance Scottish football further. There might be areas of contention, Presiding Officer, such as around an independent regulator, as Ben Macpherson said. I need to be honest, I'm not sure on this one, but I don't want anybody to think, and that means that I'm saying that I'm not for it or that I am for it. I just don't know it. I go back to what everybody is saying, but Ben Macpherson and Douglas Ross have said that we need to have a wider discussion on it. We need to know the pros and the cons, and then, as a nation, we can come to some sort of best solution. I will close, Presiding Officer. I can see you looking at me. I will close by mentioning my strategy to all the hard work that the SFA has done to develop our human Scotland and to wish the men's team all the very best in journey this summer. Thank you very much, Presiding Officer. Let me begin by thanking Ben Macpherson for bringing this debate to the chamber and to the Scottish Football Alliance and Simon Barrow, who actually wrote much of the report, bringing it together. Their report, of course, on rebuilding Scottish football. I'd also like to echo members across the chamber in recognising Scotland's national teams on their success in recent years, and I look forward to cheering on the women's team later this month and, of course, the men's team in the Euros this summer. Let me also commend the Scottish Women's Premier League and its achievements, which I think speaks to the success of women's football. However, the Scottish Football Support Association's fan-led review of football in Scotland is, I believe, a positive step towards bringing about some much-needed change in the support. The introduction of an independent regulator to scrutinise governance, finance and transparency should be considered to give fans a much louder voice and ensure good governance in the game. On some occasions, we know that clubs in Scotland are brought by business people without any real interest in benefiting the communities and supporters that teams actually belong to. Take Dumbarton Football Club in my own constituency, the Sun Supporters Trust have been instrumental in supporting the club over the years and voicing community concerns around ownership of the club. Dumbarton Football Club was purchased by Cognitive Capital in May 2021, a Norwegian investment group, that said that they planned to turn the team into a stable championship club. They also made claims that there would be a revival of multi-million-pound plans for a new stadium at Young's Farm in Renton, moving the club from its existing ground to realise the ground for guess what, upmarket housing development. There were real concerns about the future of the club itself and whether that was the case of asset stripping. Dumbarton Football Club is without doubt an iconic club. Stevie Farrell is a great manager. The team has huge potential. It is also one of the oldest in Scotland and, last year, celebrated its 150th anniversary. Many believe that that strong reputation has peaked the interests of people who do not represent the interests and the future of the club and, indeed, the local community. Indeed, even more believe that the value of the land for residential development at the foot of Dumbarton Castle might be the underlying motivation. The Sun Supporters Trust tells me that for nearly two decades Dumbarton Football Club has been in the hands of owners whose primary interest appears to be land and property deals, who have frequently failed to deliver resources that were promised to the club and who have reportedly stolen possible community development because of a get rich pipe dream. Instead of treating clubs like Dumbarton Football Club with the respect that they deserve, they have been treated like development opportunities to get rich quick. That is an issue that does not just affect clubs in Scotland. Across the UK, clubs in England and Wales have been snapped up by monthly millionaires. Sometimes it has not worked well and we have seen managed decline, steam rolling over the wishes of fans and taking the heart out of the sport that we all love. Proposals for greater scrutiny are, we have already heard, currently being brought forward for the rest of the UK, which is positive. However, we must ensure likewise the regulation of Scottish football so that we are not left behind. We must come together for our communities and clubs to guarantee that public interest is at the forefront of football ownership, that Scottish football is run for the benefit of the people and that accountability can flourish. Club management structures should not be left to mark their own homework any longer. We need to take this opportunity to bring Scottish football back to the fans and the communities that these teams belong to and to protect the future of Scottish football and clubs like Dumbarton Football Club. Thank you, Ms Bailey. Just slightly disappointed you failed to mention Dumbarton Football Club hosting the Scottish Parliament football team. No doubt a highlight in their recent history. I now call James Dorson, Dornan to be followed by Graham Simpson, around four minutes, Mr Dornan. Thank you very much for getting off, sir. May I raise a point of order on the outrageous intervention by my colleague Fergus Ewing? That's not a point of order, but I entirely agree with you, Mr Dornan. Yeah, there's no place for that sort of language in this place. But in a more serious note, thanks to Ben MacPherson for bringing this motion forward for debate. A huge thank you to Paul Goodwin, Simon Barrow and all the others, the SFSA for the magnificent report they produced. I must also mention Scott Roberts and the indefatigable Willie Smith of Real Grass Fruits for their courage, determination and patience in bringing the protection of Scotland's young players to the forefront of public awareness by using the Parliament's petitions committee. I've been involved in one way or another in football for around 65 years as a kid and then young man playing for fun. Then 20 years as a coach, manager, strip washer and general dog's body as anyone who has ever ran a football club will testify. That's your roles. During these 65 years I've seen and embraced the joy football can bring to all its participants and that's why I'm so happy to be taking part in this debate. When I became an MSP, one of the things I was hoping to achieve was the cleaning up of the murkier aspects of the beautiful game here in Scotland from sectarianism and racism to the horrific and far too widespread historic abuse of young lads playing football. I strongly supported the OBFA and attempted to bring in a member's bill to enact strict liability, making the club responsible for the behaviour of their own supporters. At every step of that journey I was met with obstruction and an unwillingness to let anything upset the status quo. This came as expected from the two biggest clubs in Scotland with most to lose of course, but even more so when I spoke to the SFA or SPFL. Nothing to see here was a cry. When I asked for any kind of statistics to back up there, nothing to do with us, gov statements, unsurprisingly there was none available. I was going to say the SFA must have been taking lessons from the mafia and the importance of a murder but I suspect it was the other way round. But I mainly want to talk about the disregard the SFA have shown to the vast majority of participants in Scottish football and the complete lack of transparency around their funding and how taxpayers money is being spent and why an independent regulator is not just desired for Scottish football but required for it. The hierarchy of Scottish football fear an independent regulator, one that could demand certain standards be upheld, for example a fit and proper ownership requirement, a clear paper trail for all spending of the public's monies, particularly how it reaches our benefits of youth football and serious attempts at bringing an end to sectarian and racist behaviour which is simply ignored on a weekly basis in Scotland. And the reason they oppose it is based on their complete unwillingness to give up control and or upset the big two. If you ask the SFA they will tell you there are members or an organisation but what they won't tell you is that the systems created in such a way that the members who run it number two and we all know who they are, they're contempt for parliament, most of the clubs they represent and the grass roots that ensures that football continues to flourish in Scotland is not a new thing. When searching for this debate I came across questions asked in 2019 of the then justice minister, Homs Eusef by myself and Mr Liam MacArthur. The questions were about the reporting of sectarian behaviour by official observers. The point blank refused to hand over this information, extremely important though it was, before relenting by agreeing to hand over the information when the provisor that it was never put in the public domain. Let me assure you of this, the people at the top of the tree in Scottish football do not have the interests of the ordinary supporter on mind. Just recently the SFA chief executive suggested that the fans need to be educated. How very patronising and typically arrogant Mr Maxwell. Their primary interest is to ensure they stay in top of the well-paid pyramid of Scottish football and that no one nor body, even such an august one as the Scottish parliament shall get in their way. An independent regulator, someone with no vested interest except for the good of Scottish football is their worst nightmare. So I urged the minister to please support an independent regulator for Scottish football to support our young players, the standard of ownership in our clubs, and to help Scotland to finally get rid of the scourge of sectarianism from our best terraces. The vast majority of Scottish football people will thank you for it. Thank you very much, Deputy Presiding Officer. I also start by congratulating Ben Macpherson, in fact, thanking him for bringing this debate to the chamber, because it's long overdue, I think, and it has actually, the very fact that we're having this debate has sparked a debate, and unfortunately what I'm seeing is already have entrenched positions between what I would describe as the fan-led group, which produced this excellent paper and the Scottish football establishment. So what is football? I mean it has to be more than just a business, I think, it's more than just paying to go to a game and go and cheer on your team and go home and that's it. It has to be more than that. Football is for all of us, I think, and it's about our heritage, and that heritage can be passed down the families, can be passed from father or mother to son or daughter, and you will find that generations of families will support the same team wherever they live, and that's a good thing. So football matters to people in this country, so it's not just a business, it's really important. So I hope that this can be the start of a discussion that can lead to some change. Now, there's been talk of what's happening in England, there were plans for an independent regulator outlined in the King's Speech in November, this followed a fan's-led review chaired by Tracy Crouch, which said that a regulator was necessary, and of course we've had a similar review in this paper, and I can sense the frustration throughout the paper. It does describe, it does say, and I think that it's right to say, that football is full of vested interests, and it does agree that there should be a regulator. I just want to go through some of what's happening in England, because I don't agree with all of it, but I think it's worth knowing what's in there. The regulator will have three specific primary duties, club sustainability, that's the financial sustainability of individual clubs, obviously, systemic stability, that's the overall stability of the football pyramid, and cultural heritage, protecting the heritage of football clubs that matter most to fans. The regulator will operate a licensing system, where clubs will need a licence to operate as professional football clubs. It will establish a compulsory football club, corporate governance code, and that will be applied proportionately with regard to the size, league and complexity of the club's business model. The regulator will establish new tests for prospective owners and directors of football clubs. That aims to avoid any more unsuitable custodians causing or contributing to problems at clubs and risking harm to fans. The regulator will implement a minimum standard of fan engagement. It will ensure clubs have a framework in place to regularly meet a representative group of fans to discuss key matters at the club and other issues of interest to supporters. I'm a little bit wary of that one, I must be honest, because it depends on who you class as a representative group. I've seen groups of fans claiming to speak for every supporter of a club when they demonstrably do not. The regulator will also add and reinforce existing protections around club heritage. There is more. I thank the Scottish Football Association, the Scottish Professional Football League, the Scottish Women's Football League and the SPFL trust for their joint letter, in which they rightly point out all the positives in the game here in Scotland, but they reject the need for a regulator. They're being defensive, they don't need to be. As I said at the start, this debate today has at least sparked a debate. That's a good thing. The football establishment, of which Douglas Ross is a member and I'm glad he didn't fall into line behind that letter, they need to come to the table as well. I like the minister when she concludes to at least agree that that kind of discussion is necessary. It should be led by the Government, I think, and we can do things in this Parliament because the beautiful game belongs to us all. Thank you. Mr Simpson, before calling the next speaker, I'm conscious of the number of members who still want to participate in the debate, so I'm minded to accept a motion without notice under rule 8.14.3, to extend the debate by up to 30 minutes, and I invite Mr McPherson to move such a motion. Thank you. Are we all agreed that the debate should be extended by up to 30 minutes? Excellent. Thank you very much, and we move into extra time. I call Gillian Mackay to be followed by Neil Bibby, around four minutes, please. Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. I, too, would like to thank Bing McPherson for bringing this debate to the chamber and thank the SFSA for co-ordinating and publishing a fan-led review of the game in Scotland. Before getting into the detail of this report and the much-needed steps that I believe we could and should take to enhance Scottish football, I believe that it's vitally important, as others have said, to highlight the fantastic work already being carried out by football clubs and their supporters across Scotland, and to celebrate the positive impact that football has had on this country in recent years. As others have highlighted, we should welcome the brilliant work of our senior teams. Steve Clark and his team have managed to lift the mood of the nation and bring us a sense of hope in the game that was missing for many years. I wish the national team all the best in Germany this summer and I'm sure we'll all be cheering you on with every kick of the ball. Our women's game continues to go from strength to strength. In the Premier League last season, the title race went down to the very last game of the season with three teams within touching distance of the trophy, with Glasgow City coming out on top, much of the disappointment of Celtic and Rangers. We witnessed record crowds at various grounds and we saw the first women's ties played at Celtic Park and Ibrox. Long may this continue. We do, however, need to tackle the on-going issues that women's football is facing. In recent months we've seen a sustained amount of abuse towards women commentators and pundits. That has to stop and there is a duty on all of us to call this out where and when we see it. Alex Scott is one of those who has had such behaviour targeted at her and I hope that a quote she gave in the wake of the abuse will resonate with many as to how far we still have to go in changing culture but how important representation is. To all the women in football in front of the camera or behind it, to the players on the pitch, to everyone who attends games, keep being the role models that you continue to be to all those young girls that are told no you can't. Football is a better place with all of us in it. In my central Scotland region clubs like Motherwell, Falkirk and Stennis Muir continue to lead their way in their local communities delivering classes that deliver health, wellbeing and social benefits. I'm constantly impressed by the phenomenal work those clubs do through their community foundations or trusts. The Scottish Greens believe that our national team is for all of us but especially in this cost of living crisis far too many people are being priced out of our beautiful game. If we want children to look up to our athletes or to be inspired by them then they need to be able to see both the men's and women's teams in action. That's why I have been calling on the SFA to work with broadcasters to ensure that Scotland international fixtures are placed on free to view TV channels. The team has done the nation proud but due to the games only being shown as subscription services not everybody was able to experience it live and that must change. There are fundamentals that need to change in Scottish football. We must look at fairer distribution of resources, better marketing our game in order to attract further ethical investment, investment that doesn't include health harming products or gambling and for the game to be more accessible especially to those who can least afford it with a particular emphasis on tackling inequalities as a barrier to participation. We have such a passionate supporter base here in Scotland and it is vital that we recognise that fans are the lifeblood of our game and a key source of revenue. We must ensure that fans can have an ownership stake in a strong voice in how their clubs are run like Motherwell and Falkirk in my region and we must ensure that the same fans have a strong input into how the game is structured and governed. I echo the views from supporters organisations that transparency good governance in the oversight that this culturally important industry needs is very much dependent on having an independent regulator. Drawing on lessons from the new independent regulator for English football, new owners and directors tests for clubs should be established by replacing the existing procedures and ensuring that only good potential custodians and qualified directors can run these vital assets. We also need to look at the appointment of the president of the SFA and I believe that it should be removed and replaced with a fair voting structure whereby both clubs and season ticket holders can vote for nominated candidates from both inside and outside football. Fans contribute over 50 per cent of the revenue to our game. That should be recognised in order to support a positive culture change across the game and to bring an additional focus on football as Scotland's national sport and showcase it to the world as a progressive, democratic, attractive and not afraid to do things differently. I welcome this debate in the publication of the fan-led review by the Scottish Football Supporters Association. I thank Ben Macpherson for securing this debate. As I have said previously, football is not just a sport in Scotland that is woven into the very fabric of our society, but as much as we celebrate the force for football it can be, we should also debate what more we can do to support it and, if necessary, reform it. Just because football has been central to the life of our communities over the last century and a half does not mean that it will always be the case. I am sure that we could all talk at length and we have done so far, but the positive impact that football clubs have in our communities is the Street Stuff initiative, which is partnered by St Myrden. For example, my own region is an excellent example, but this report highlights a series of concerns that many fans have about governance issues in the game. Concerns about vested interests, decisions that are being made behind closed doors and concerns about a lack of stakeholder engagement. As Jockstein said, football without fans is nothing. There is widespread concern that football authorities do not do enough to consult fans and seek the views of fans on important decisions. Football, of course, would be nothing without the players, so we need to see a greater safe for fans, but also players too and their union at the PFA Scotland. On financial governance, the SPFL and SFV have pointed out that there has not been a financial insolvency involving our Scottish club in over a decade, but we know that there were significant cases prior to that involving rangers and other clubs. My concern is that, just because it has not happened over the past 10 years, does not mean that it cannot happen again. We must ensure that adequate safeguards and tests in place to ensure that those owning football clubs are fit, proper and capable to do so. Jackie Bailey's rightly articulated concerns in relation to Dumbarton football club. It is also vital to take the views from the children's commissioner extremely seriously. They explain that children continue to be viewed as economic assets by the Scottish football clubs and authorities, and that specific legislation is still needed to close gaps in domestic law, which permits the commercial exploitation of children. We must ensure that stronger protections are in place for our children and young people, and if that is not addressed, it would surely make calls for an independent regulator unanswerable. So where should we go from here, Presiding Officer? I believe that we need to see genuine and meaningful partnership working between fans, players, clubs, authorities and Government. The Government is seeking to reset its relationships with business, and now it should seek to reset its relationships with football fans and clubs too. A reset between clubs and an end to the situation in which opposition fans continue to receive limited or zero ticket allocations at way games should also happen. I thank the SPFL, SWPL and SFA for their briefing and the engagement that I have had with them. I understand that they do not support an independent regulator, but to justify that position I would like to see more from them about what they intend to do to address the issues that we are discussing today, and I would support the suggestion of a round table to discuss that. Finally, we need to see far more from the Scottish Government. A series piece of work was published in June, and seven months later we still have no detailed response from the Scottish Government to the review and its 23 recommendations. Presiding Officer, as we know and have been mentioned, the UK Government commissioned its own fan-led review in 2021. I believe that the minister should take the lead on this, and if the minister is not minded to introduce an independent regulator on the basis of this fan-led review, then the minister should consider initiating its own fan-led review and possibly a player-led review involving the views of players to look at the future of the men's and women's games, to address the concerns that exist, to help to make the changes that are needed and to ensure that our national game can have a positive future and be a force for good for many years to come. I also like to thank Ben Macpherson for bringing forward this important debate, and I totally concur with him that the important role football plays in their communities and in Scottish society. I am going to focus on the benefits that I have seen first-hand that football brings in my constituency, and it affirms the sentiment that Scottish football is a force for good in our culture and wider society. One of the things that I have enjoyed immensely since being elected is getting out and about and meeting with all the fantastic community groups that operate across my Persia, South and Cunroshir constituency. As a football fan myself, I was delighted to be invited along to present the Friendship Cup at Donaldson Park in Cunrosh. The Friendship Cup was a yearly trophy presented to the eventual winner of a seven-aside tournament between under-16s and 17s from Cunrosh Colts and a team made up of unaccompanied child refugees from Perth and Edinburgh, consisting of boys from across the world who have settled in Scotland. It is a fantastic initiative that is started by club chairman Brian Kenny and treasurer John Murray. Both were inspired by the work done by football welcomes refugees and sought to highlight the difficulties that unaccompanied child refugees face through the power of sport. That sort of community working together has been replicated right across my constituency. I am certain throughout other members' constituencies, and it is not just grassroot clubs like Cunrosh Colts, Genefield Swifts or Letham football club, who incidentally has their home at seven acres where I spent hours as a boy growing up in Letham and that even occasionally looked me on as a stub, a sub, despite my limited ability. No, it is not just those clubs that are given back to their communities. In contrast to Jackie Baillie's point, I would quickly like to point or mention the immense credit due to the Brown family who have owned and run St Johnston football clubs since 1986 and run it in an impeccable manner, making them a competitive Premier League club, winning a league cup and Scottish Cup double in season 2122 after taking them over in 1986 as a lowly Scottish league team and in deep financial trouble. I would really urge Douglas Ross not to hold against the pear saints this week when he is officiating Jessica's in my constituency. The pear saint is established by the St Johnston community trust, better known as Saints in the community. They do some brilliant work and prove that football has numerous social benefits, improving self-esteem, inspiring children and young people, promoting wellbeing and healthy lifestyles and contributing to social inclusion. Saints in the community run several community football projects, which seek to provide football and other sporting activities for kids and young people with a view to increasing the numbers playing and to create a pathway from grass roots to excellence, creating the football ingrates for the next generation. Alongside that important work, they also run a number of community projects with the themes of wellbeing and social inclusion at their heart. Saints work with show racers on the red card and deliver a two-hour session at schools across Perth and Gronos to promote the message that racism has no place in football. They also deliver football memories project, which uses football and football in memories and is aimed at helping people of all ages who would benefit from social interaction, for example those living in isolation or with a condition such as dementia or recovering from a stroke. Last but not least, you cannot attend the game at MacDairnwood park without seeing the volunteers from Saints fans supporting food banks whose motto is, hunger doesn't wear club colours. That should resonate with members across the chamber. No matter the weather, they are out every game taking in donations for the local food bank. Football makes them mooks, many valuable contributions to our society and I would agree with Ben MacPherson that we must further strengthen and develop this for the benefit of all our constituents. Thank you Mr Fairlie and I call the final speaker in the open debate at Richard Leonard around FOMET. Thank you Deputy Presiding Officer and can I refer members to my register of interests and the convener of the PFA Scotland parliamentary interest group. Can I begin by thanking Ben MacPherson for leading this important debate on the state and on the future of Scottish football? I have to say that anyone who witnessed the chief executive of the Scottish Football Association giving evidence to this Parliament just last month would have seen an organisation seemingly in denial. Ian Maxwell claimed that the Scottish game does not have the same financial failings as the game in England. Well I'm bound to ask what about Gretna in 2008? What about Glasgow Rangers in 2012? What about Dunfermline in 2013? And this is not just historical. What about in the last few days when Edinburgh City had six points deducted by the SPFL for failing to pay its players and its debtors? The SFA's view that there is no need for reform, no need for transparency, no need for regulation, that in Ian Maxwell's own words to this Parliament the governance in the game is robust, is to ignore not only the findings of the report we are discussing tonight, it is to ignore the objective facts. Whether it's the introduction of a regulator or the reform of the present governance framework, football in Scotland badly needs an age of enlightenment. We need the involvement of players and their union, fans and their representative organisations, not just through a consultation but through active participation. Whether those are considered to be long-term or short-term reforms, the SFA has to accept that reforms are needed and the beginning has to be made now. But there is something else which the SFA appears to be in denial about too and that is the treatment of children and young people in our professional football game. Now I accept that there have been some modest changes made not least because of the pressure applied by those determined petitioners who drove those demands going back years through this Parliament's Public Petitions Committee, but the restriction of free movement, the denial of basic human rights to children and young people who are contracted or are even in the SFA's own terms party to enforceable documents is still a widespread practice, with the result that if you are aged between 11 and 14 years old, that means that you can be held unable to move to another club for a year. If you are 15 years or older at one of the so-called nine elite football clubs, you can be prevented from moving to another club for two years. There is to use the words of the Office of the Commissioner for Children and Young People, I quote, a systematic power imbalance. Young footballers, child footballers, are treated as commodities at best as slave labour at worst, denied a freedom to move clubs and to simply play football. This not only throttles the development of those young people, it throttles the development of the game as well. I am bound to ask the minister, when are you going to act? Where is the urgency? These young people are only 11 once, 13 once, 15 once, so it is no good coming back in two years time saying that we have had another review because by then it will be too late for this generation. It is the duty of government, even a nationalist government, to deal not just with a territory, not just with a domain but to build and sustain a society. So it is time for a period of enlightenment for an era of democratic reform to sweep through the governance and control of Scottish football and I cannot think of a better place to start than with the rights and freedoms of our children and young people and I cannot think of a better time to start than now. Thank you very much, Mr Leonard. I now invite Marie Todd to respond to the debate minister around seven minutes please. Thank you, Presiding Officer. Football is a subject that many of us in this chamber and indeed right across the country clearly feel very passionate about and we've heard many contributions this afternoon which demonstrate just how much football means to people. Our national game continues to grow in popularity and reach wider audiences and I know that the Scottish FA is committed to continuing to grow and develop the game. We continue to work closely with them on this and their briefing note to MSPs was extremely helpful in setting out what they are doing in a wide range of areas. Supporters though are the lifeblood of the game and it's vital that their role is recognised. The Scottish Government recognises that and we enjoy positive relationships with the national fans organisations, supporters direct Scotland and the Scottish Football Supporters Association. We believe that fans should be able to have real influence on the game as a whole and on the future of the clubs that they love and support and that's why last May we launched the fan bank which is intended to support organised fan groups to become more involved in the ownership of their club, ensuring that interests are represented on clubs boards and protecting those clubs for generations to come. The fan bank will make a positive change to football and help to put real power in the hands of supporters in the local community. Falkirk Supporters Society was the first recipient of a loan from the fan bank with £350,000 enabling them to increase their shareholding so that they and other small shareholders now have the protection of owning a third of the club and that investment has in turn supported the club in renewing its pitch for the season and investing in the club's development. We've also had discussions with a number of other supporters groups about potential bids into the fan bank and I'm really glad that this initiative is proving so popular with football fans. Today's debate has been inspired by the review of Scottish football launched in June last year by the Scottish Football Alliance and the Scottish Football Supporters Association. The review covers a very wide range of issues and many of them around formations of the leagues or division of prize money for example while of interest are simply not for the Scottish Government to comment on. There are elements of it of course that we fully endorse for example that the game be accessible and welcoming to everyone with a particular emphasis on tackling inequalities as a barrier to participation. On Monday I spoke at a UNESCO and UEFA event at Hamden on social outcomes contracting and I reflected on my visit to the amputee football nations league in Fife last year which saw Scotland qualify for the finals in France this June and oh my goodness how truly inspiring it was to see our amputee athletes competing at an international level. Scottish Para football is doing outstanding work in promoting a wide range of parallel ways to engage in the game. Now turning back to the review the headline proposal is clearly the call for an independent regulator it's certainly an interesting one the fan-led review in England emerged from a particular set of circumstances and the recommendation that a regular be set up was to address particular challenges to the sustainability of the English game. The football landscape in Scotland is very different but that is not in itself an argument against the introduction of a regulator however the specific role of any such body would very much need to be tailored to the Scottish context as would the funding of it. Now I understand the regulator in England is estimated to cost around 30 million and that's going to be funded through a levy on clubs whilst I would obviously expect a Scottish regulator to cost substantially less than this the cost would still be significant in a Scottish context and I am not clear at this stage where this could come from so before such a big step is taken I think it would be really useful to undertake some learning from England which as far as I am aware is the only country which is currently legislating to introduce an independent regulator I'd like to understand better how the regulator is planning to operate in England and once it's up and running how effective it is at achieving its aims and I will absolutely ask Scottish Government officials to engage with the UK Government on this. Finally I would also wish to consider whether any such regulator certainly. Grim Simpson. Can I thank the minister for taking the intervention I'm listening very carefully to what she's saying so she appears to be saying she wants to wait for the regulator to be set up in England and then wait to see how it operates before doing anything. How long does she expect that to take? I mean it said to me that could take several years if she's not prepared to at least start discussions right now. Minister and could you perhaps move the phone away from the microphone I think it's picking things up? Certainly I'm more than happy to talk about what I do plan to do in the fullness of time. I would want to consider whether any such regulator would operate across sports governing bodies rather than specifically about football. One would find it hard to argue with the calls for accountability, transparency and responsibility in football but those are traits that I think any and all of our sports governing bodies should demonstrate. I know that Sports Scotland works with sports governing bodies to ensure effective financial management, organisational stability, leadership and planning and policy implementation and they should certainly be part of this discussion. In summary today I cannot commit to establishing an independent regulator. A lot of work needs to be done to understand how that would operate, how it would be appointed and funded and what the specific role would be and whether there are other ways to achieve the agreed outcomes short of establishing a new body. Equally, I'm in my closing at the moment, equally the door is not by any means closed on this and if a strong case can be made as to why it was necessary and why other measures short of regulation couldn't be implemented which addressed some of the issues raised. I am absolutely content to continue the conversation and I'm more than happy to host a round table discussion on this as been suggested. I will ask my officials to take this forward with Ben Macpherson. We've heard this afternoon what football means to people and what it means to fans to support their club and their country. Scotland's had a long love affair with the game. We found it and it still holds a very special place in our hearts. As Minister for Sport, I see my role as helping sport to flourish and I'm of course very happy to work with partners to achieve this. Thank you. Thank you minister. That concludes the debate and I close this meeting of Parliament.