 Good evening to everyone and welcome to the Student Union building and to Dalhousie University My name is Camille Cameron. I'm the Dean of the Shulig School of Law at Dalhousie and the moderator for this panel I would like to begin by acknowledging that we're holding this event here this evening on traditional MiGMA territory I've been asked to read this notice to everyone Please note tonight's event is being recorded and will be posted to youtube.com at Shulig Law Perhaps among other place other YouTube places I'm very pleased to be able to welcome you all here this evening for this panel discussion marijuana is Canada ready and To show you how lively this panel will be in a forward title we've already had some controversy about two of those words and That controversy will be revealed as you listen to the speakers I will introduce the panel in a moment and we'll get right to it But before I do that a word from your sponsors This event is co-hosted by the faculty of arts law and management here at Dalhousie And with a community partner for this event genome Atlantic the collaboration With the three faculties began about a year ago when we decided that we should come together Periodically to host public events like this one on topics of high public interest Our first panel event was called Trump now what? Preciant it was held four days before Trump's inauguration And it was a very popular event which will come as no surprise to most of you Then we asked ourselves how do we trump trump and the topic of the legalization of Marijuana was a pretty easy choice Panels such as this one are an opportunity for us to share With the university community and with the broader community Inquiry curiosity and learning the things that are the lifeblood of a university We're very pleased to be partnering with genome Atlantic to host this event Genome Atlantic is a not-for-profit organization that uses genomics in research and development Aimed at leading to solutions in a number of areas including food production natural resources Fisheries and health among others they have an impressive Solutions-based research portfolio, and we were very pleased to find out that they were just as interested in this topic and In organizing a panel as we were so we came together As partners what are some of the key questions that surround the issue of the legalization of marijuana? That's the purpose of this evening's panel to identify and to explore some of these questions And before we get to that I just want to say a few thank yous There's always a lot of work that goes into an event like this This one started innocently enough, but actually grew in in size and and in interest And it did take a fair bit of work to get us all here this evening So I just want to say thank you to Lindsay Loomer and Jane Doucette in the school of law Communications office to Charmaine Godet at genome Atlantic director of external relations for genome and to Elizabeth Sanford in the Dean's office at the law school I'll now turn to the panel and to panel introductions. I will begin with Anne McClellan The Honorable A. Anne McClellan is the chair of Canada's task force on cannabis legalization and regulation She's the Dalhousie University Chancellor, and she's also by the way the former deputy prime minister of Canada She will give an overview of the process and key recommendations of the task force on cannabis legalization and regulation Next we have Archie Kaiser Professor Kaiser is with the shulig school of law and the Department of Psychiatry at Dalhousie University He will address some issues related to the function and limits of the criminal law Including prohibition and enforcement models reasons for and dimensions of the failure of criminalization and the boundaries between public health and the criminal law after legalization Next we have Professor Eileen Donovan Wright Professor Wright is with the Department of Pharmacology Dalhousie University. She's promised me that she won't use really really big words There are some eight syllable and nine syllables words. She's got the lawyers beat I think She will address issues regarding the science of cannabis including how cannabinoids can affect brain function Differences among different groups of people the need for a knowledge-based risk benefit analysis and some gaps that exist in Our knowledge and that require further research Next we have Daryl Dexter the Honorable Daryl Dexter is currently vice chair global public affairs He is a former Premier of Nova Scotia And he is currently an honorary fellow with the McKeckin Institute for Public Policy and Governance at Dalhousie He will talk about the legislative models and distribution issues that arise with regard to legalization Including the various possible distribution models that might be considered He'll identify some problems and challenges that arise for provinces and territories related to distribution and the need for more research Next we have Sylvain Charlebois Professor Sylvain Charlebois is the Dean Faculty of Medicine and a professor in the Faculty of Agriculture at Dalhousie University He will report on a national survey on cannabis-infused food products that he and a colleague have recently conducted and Finally we have Professor Melanie Kelly Professor Kelly is with the Departments of Pharmacology and Ophthalmology, Anesthesia, Pain Management and Perioperative Medicine Dalhousie University She will talk about the need to maintain strong medical cannabis cannabinoid access for patients after legalization And to focus research on therapeutics rather than just on harm reduction And she'll also discuss some of the reasons why Canadians are currently using medical cannabis and cannabinoids And I've introduced myself. I'm Camille Cameron the Dean of the Shulig School of Law So each panelist will have 12 minutes. We have a timekeeper Thank You Fabian one of our law students has kindly agreed to be a timekeeper And I've told the panelists that at the end of 12 minutes if they're still talking a hook will come down from the ceiling and Take them away. I I may have to interrupt some of them. So, please don't think me impolite I'm keen for everybody to have a chance to speak and then to reserve some time for questions and Answers from the floor and we have reserved about 40 minutes for some questions and answers So marijuana is Canada ready who better to start us off than Anne McClellan the chair of Canada's task force on Cannabis legalization and regulation and one of the people who's going to take issue with the title right off the bat The task force has presented a very detailed report on the issues that have to be considered as we move toward legalization She will tell us about the main recommendations of the task force Thank you very much Camille. Can it is my mic on can everybody hear me great good As Camille has indicated yes, I will have a few words off the top to say about the title others will talk more In a more fulsome fashion around the use of the word marijuana if any of you have looked at our task force report We make it very clear early in the report. We do not use that language. It is slang We do not think it's appropriate The cannabis plant is a very complex plant with over 100 and some active agents We decided and the scientists on the panel decided early out of the box our first meeting if we're going to do this Let's treat this plant with the respect it deserves So you will see in the report only the use of the word cannabis in whatever form it may be found or taken and Generally, I try to avoid in my spoken word any reference to the word marijuana Now but I that is I've got that off my chest Is Canada ready? Well, the answer to that is no, but nobody should be surprised or panicked. So if there's Media in the room don't rush out and say McClellan says government not ready because it's the wrong question I would agree that the government is not ready right now, but we're still my nine months out Before in fact there we will go live if you like in terms of in and around July 2018 the real question we should all be asking ourselves is Canada getting ready and is Canada doing the things we need to do in our component parts and citizens to be ready for when we go live in and around July 2018 and I do want to spend just a little bit of time telling you about what the government Governments are doing in fact to get ready First of all as you've heard the federal government keep in mind It was the party of which I am a member the Liberal Party of Canada that in fact during the last election made the Commitment to legalize and regulate our job as the task force was to tell the government how how after listening to Canadians across this country experts activists who ever wanted to talk to us and submit to us our Task was to make recommendations to the government as to how to fulfill their Public policy commitment around legalization and regulation As you know the government has introduced legislation this very day It's going through clause by clause in the health committee where I and my vice chair mark where Appeared a couple of weeks ago There is a lot of work being done behind the scenes separate and apart from the legislation Regulations are being drafted in anticipation of legislation being passed. I also want to reassure you the government Public servants are working diligently with their provincial and territorial counterparts There are a number of working groups in place right now as you can imagine Bearing down on the details see to sale one of our recommendations to prevent diversion and to ensure Quality control a working group in relation to that a working group in relation to ticketing There will be ticketing offenses both in the federal legislation at the provincial level the governments have decided They want one uniform ticket that law enforcement will use throughout the nation. They're working on that Public education if you've looked at our report is key as we move forward through this transformation There is a federal provincial territorial group working on public education to ensure all the messages around public education are in fact Uniform and symmetrical So there's a lot of work being done at the federal level right now to get ready now in relation to the provinces as you've seen consultations are going on in almost all provinces Ontario we've got their model ladies and gentlemen and it's come under a fair bit of criticism in New Brunswick we don't have their retail model, but we know they're out there purchasing supply and Probably the government most supportive overall of the legalization and regulation of cannabis We know that Quebec and Alberta tomorrow my province Alberta will in fact release at least an overview of their Proposal and approach to legalization and regulation Quebec is close and other provinces are lining up and of course we have the first Ministers meeting today and I was chatting to one of the officials Outside the door just before coming over here and the first ministers had actually not begun their discussion of the cannabis Agenda item, but I'm sure by the six o'clock news or a little later here in Nova Scotia We will have some insight as to what is Happening at the first ministers meeting. So the right question is is Canada getting ready? Yes Canada is getting ready. Is there a lots more work to do? Absolutely there is but that work is being done. Will there be surprises along the road? Of course there will be will we learn from others? Yes, the task force visited Colorado, Washington We talked to the Oregon And we talked to our friends in Uruguay the first country to legalize at the national level So we are learning from others We will continue to learn from others as we move through this journey of Transformation, but Canada is in a unique position We are the first OECD country to in fact legalize and regulate and the world is watching us The world really did not pay that much attention to Uruguay when they legalized the world including the UN is Watching are watching us very closely. Why did mr. Trudeau and the government of Canada decide to legalize and regulate Cannabis well, it's pretty clear that after decades of prohibition Prohibition was not achieving either the public safety or public health objectives that it was Supposed to in fact achieve we in Canada have the highest youth use in the world I usually use slides, but there's no time But if you look at the age cohorts 15 to 19 21% of that age group have indicated they used in the past year 20 to 24 30% of that age group has indicated that they used in the past year interestingly 25 and plus use use falls off To 10% but actually we in the task force believe one of the major growth areas for cannabis use is my generation The boomer generation as we deal with our aches and pains Among other things I guess If you look at the latest statistics from UNICEF They will tell you that if you looking at the age cohorts 11 13 and 15 Approximately 27.5% of Canadian youth in those age cohorts Indicate that they have used cannabis So if prohibition was to prevent young people and others from using it's been an abysmal failure Let's look at whether prohibition was to take Illegality out of the supply of cannabis again an abysmal failure We have an illegal market in this country off at least seven billion dollars when I say illegal that is not all organized crime And in fact, there's huge debate and Archie probably knows this huge debate among criminologists and social scientists as to how much Organized crime there is in the cannabis business, but if you talk to law enforcement, it is significant But the illegal market is not only organized crime. It's everything, but medicinal currently and that is a huge market So prohibition hasn't prevented the growth of the illegal marketplace It's also led to the lack of respect for the rule of law Because the vast majority of Canadians do not think it should be a crime to possess small amounts for personal use And you never want laws on your books that actually start to undermine respect for the rule of law Our police our law enforcement, they will tell you they don't want to waste their limited time and resources Enforcing personal possession charges again that leads to a lack of respect and confusion around the enforcement of the law We have regional variations in the enforcement of the law even variations within provinces Urban Edmonton the police force takes a different approach than a rural small town community in the north of the province That too leads to disrespect for the rule of law and we have racialized enforcement of this law And there's more and more evidence that in fact African Canadians and indigenous Canadians are subject to many more charges of personal possession Than others Caucasians for example, and we have no quality control over the product that people are buying illegally You could get ground up cement in your cannabis and you're paying eight dollars a gram for Cannabis and ground up cement or things that are much much more dangerous like fentanyl So has prohibition work ladies and gentlemen, no it hasn't how many times you hit your head against that wall in the back Before you say maybe it is time as a country to think about a different approach And that's what the government of Canada did after the last election. They put the task force in place and We made 80 recommendations. I know I'm running out of time We made 80 recommendations the basic principles we put in place the precautionary principle everywhere We went people who've gone down this road the states in the u.s. In Uruguay take your time be cautious out of the box because as I've said there will be surprises You don't know what your surprises will be but there will be surprises So be cautious as the market develops as you learn in terms of who's using and how much and health and safety issues You can always go in and loosen the rules So you will see that principle reflected in our report also all our recommendations are based on either public health or public safety Protection very quickly. We chose the age of 18. I think others may talk about that We believe that with the right public education Responsible young adults can make the decision as to whether they want to use hopefully moderately for personal use after the age of 18 Certainly the Canadian Medical Association and some others disagree and we're respectful of their points of view But we actually feel that if someone is old enough to serve their country without their parents consented 18 with the right public Education they're old enough to decide whether they should use cannabis in whatever form like we made recommendations around license producers Where is the product going to come from? License producers will be the only legal producers in Canada We want to bring some of those craft and artisanal producers a lot of them in the Okanagan And elsewhere, but particularly the Okanagan a lot of expertise there. We want to bring those people into the legal system But the federal government will regulate and license production and manufacturing the provinces are responsible for retail I think Daryl and others are going to talk about that you've seen Ontario's model you only compete with organized crime You have to have three things to come take organized crime out of any market You've got to have choice of whatever the product is you've got to have quality and price. I am not sure whether a government owned retail Concept the concept will actually be able to do that I think the jury's out but the joy of this country is some people will use a government owned model Others will use another model and we will learn as we move forward. I have zero time We recommend the continuation of the medicinal route Medicinal a path for at least the next five years and to be reviewed after that and edibles Yes, we recommend edibles. It's the growth part of the market and I will stop there. Thank you Good evening. I'm used to standing in front of a classroom, but usually I don't have as many students So I'm probably going to be nervous. I Wish to thank my fellow panelists and you in the audience for coming together to confront the vital public policy issues That are inherent in the legalization of cannabis or marijuana as you wish The question posed by the title of our talk can in some senses be answered succinctly. Yes Canada is ready to implement the legalization of cannabis indeed We were poised to make this choice almost 100 years ago But instead we took the wasteful damaging reflexive and self-defeating path of prohibition and punishment In my opinion, we are now a nation in recovery legally constitutionally and morally Ready to take the wiser fairer and ultimately safer direction of legalization We are approaching legalization thoughtfully and at a moderate pace In my limited time, I can only address a few major issues I will not be presenting a detailed analysis of bill C45 the cannabis act or bill C46 An act to amend the criminal code relating to conveyances. That's essential, but it's better that it be done elsewhere Overall, I believe this legislation has the right trajectory. My focus is on general principles and history Rationality and restraint. I'll talk about the function and limits of the criminal law I'll review the history of our use of the prohibition and enforcement model I'll explain the reasons for and dimensions of the failure of the criminalization approach I'll begin to delineate the boundaries between public health regulation and the residual role of the criminal law I'll suggest the need to bring the same compelling rationality which resulted in legalization of cannabis To our considering what to do with respect to other still riskier and prohibited substances So first I'll address the purposes and limits of the criminal law and our ill-fitting drug policy According to the Supreme Court of Canada criminal law can help distill positively the basic set of communal values shared by all Canadians Here our prohibitionist regime has conspicuously failed Hundreds of thousands of Canadians never accepted that the use of cannabis was wrong and harmful and have defied the criminal law The criminalization of this vast segment of our population Served only as Anne has said to reduce the legitimacy of the criminal law In our stubborn loyalty to the enforcement model We tilt it well away from the judicial Parliamentary and Royal Commission agreement on the role of the criminal law in Canadian society Authoritative statements about when the criminal law should be deployed were disregarded The Canadian consensus has been that we should only use the criminal law as a last resort an unavoidable necessity For behavior, which cannot be controlled by other social forces and legal devices In our country our legal institutions have said repeatedly that the watchword is restraint that we should only very reluctantly And sparingly use the criminal sanction We haven't been faithful to those principles for many decades and instead we overused the criminal law obfuscating many vital societal needs. I Want to address briefly our history of enthusiastic prohibition Much of the world drug trade was relatively unregulated and substance use was common until the early 1900s Alcohol and tobacco were seen as more damaging Drugs have been employed for pain and symptom relief relaxation stimulation spiritual enhancement and a means of exchange Religiously fueled notions of sobriety then motivated an unjustified redefinition of many substances as both unhealthy and degenerative Other volatile propellants of prohibition were racial discrimination and political scapegoating headlines in British Columbia newspapers in 1920 ignoring the use of the by the white middle class of opium laced popular remedies opined This is a quote the local chief of police has been busy of late in the prosecution of the heathen Chinese For dallying with the forbidden opium More broadly Emily Murphy famous for her being a pioneering feminist also waged a vicious Antidrug campaign leaking drugs race and crime and this is again a quote from the revered Emily There is a well-defined propaganda among the aliens of color to bring about the degeneration degeneration of the white race So in response to all of that Canada leaped upon the criminal bandwagon and we embraced successive waves of international criminalization We criminalized cannabis in the 1920s with virtually no parliamentary debate let alone study Canada became a willing participant in what emerged as the war on drugs by the 1970s despite occasional backward glances at more enlightened approaches for example the 1972 report on the non-medical use of drugs in the 2002 special Senate committee We concentrated on enforcement and punishment. We minimized or silenced harm reduction prevention and any educational messaging other than abstinence The war on drugs was very seductive for us Parliament I Regret to say our courts and the police eagerly adopted the war metaphor We paid little attention to the cost of its prosecution in terms of blood treasure principle rationality and constitutional values Perhaps its attractions emerged from war's reductionism When we think of war it Describes a world which is more understandable for us Evil can be pursued with a fundamental as zeal a morally certain even heroic faith Our actual perceptions of harm and cost are obscured when we concentrate on war the effects of this war The tangible and intangible negative effects of our war now seem obvious given our partial ceasefire regarding cannabis But this recognition underpins my contention that we are a nation in recovery As Anne has said and as all of us recognize Prohibition has failed to reduce supply demand and potency Enforcement has Totally inaccurately conflated users addicts and even organized crime Reliance on the criminal model grossly intruded on the decision-making of autonomous adults Even as the consumption of more harmful substances was legalized and facilitated Marginalized often racialized individuals families and communities were affected disproportionately The public health dimensions of drug use were neglected and illicit industry was spawned with its penumbra of associated crimes violence corruption and untaxed undirected revenue Suppression diminished the reverence for the criminal law for small-time users and distributors were never perceived by the public as genuine antisocial outlaws our police and Our courts again devalued too many citizens and lost sight of the democratic expectation that police powers were to be used in a restrained and respectful manner We imprisoned and we stigmatized far too many Canadians Now we are changing our direction The climb down from the ascendancy of the criminal law requires a disciplined Redirection towards public health promotion and protection and a rededication to human rights inequality Now we can open ourselves to rational consideration of the evidence Which our fellow panelists will bring in part to you tonight rather than simply penalizing anything else other than abstinence We can now consider a multiplicity of harm reducing services and supports The destructive effects and failures of the eliminationist impulse can be minimized as we redirect our energies as The UN Commissioner for Human Rights recently stated repressive responses have posed unnecessary risks to public health Creating significant barriers to the full and effective realization of the right to health With a particularly devastating impact on minorities Those living in situations of rural and urban poverty poverty and people who use drugs Let me comment upon the proper if reduced role of the criminal law following legalization There is a role for the criminal law and regulatory law in the aftermath of the legalization of cannabis It must protect young people It must assist in maintaining transportation and workplace safety It must address activities well beyond the zone of lawfulness It must assist in taxing profits equitably and ensuring revenues promote health Provide rehabilitative options invigorate education and supplement government coffers One author has put it this way that we need to use criminal and regulatory law to control the eight P's coherently production the profit motive promotion prevention potency purity price and public health We also need to Is that peace or is that two minutes? We need to deploy the criminal law in a way which will avoid hollow legalization We need to keep possessors and small-scale Cultivators outside the grasp of the criminal law and for those who offend a newly configured penal law We need to offer alternative measures where possible Ensure offenders are penalized moderately remove many of the recently installed mandatory minimum penalties Refocus on violent and organized crime. We ought not to tolerate discriminatory law enforcement patterns We ought not to use public health concerns to compel treatment Which would violate the principles of restraint and undermine respect for adult decision-making? Want to close as I'm told to with a plea that the citizenry and parliament consider a clean policy slate with respect to other psychoactive substances We need the same prioritization of public health human rights While preserving public safety Even as other substances may require a different equilibrium between legalization and decriminalization The war on drugs was an abject failure The marijuana ceasefire should be extended to a generalized peace treaty The blunt weapon of the criminal law should be largely sheathed as we can reduce harm and protect public health And the social order differently For other now prohibited substances I have an additional page and a half Thank you your your applause and the timekeeper have given me the right message Thank you. Um, if you've forgotten the order that we were presenting in my name's Eileen Denham and Ryan I'm a research scientist. I'm not a clinician. I'm a research scientist. I am honored to be as part of this panel This is such an important discussion for all of us And I'm I'm absolutely thrilled at the the call to having public education and better knowledge I feel that the one of the best things that we can do tonight is all come away with a slightly more sophisticated Evidence that we can go forward as this debate continues I've been given a very simple job and to sort of Level the playing field with really how does cannabis? affect brain function also I really would like to pose the question to all of you when it comes to cannabis Are we all the same? What makes us different? What makes us unique? And particularly and this is how I was associated with genome Atlantic What is the role that genetics can tell us? So what can genetics tell us about how we can predict? Who is at risk for developing both physical and mental illnesses perhaps that that are associated with the use of cannabis as we go forward in this new environment What can genetics tell us about the people that already have health issues or whatnot that might actually be the ones That could most benefit from cannabis use And although i'm not going to talk about it There's also a whole role of genetics in the plants that we're going to grow and how we're going to Harness that power to go forward as we go into production So in other words, what we really need to do is come away from this at the end of the evening Knowing not only are we on the road to very good policy and on all the way on the road to Ending the war on drugs as archie said, but we're really on the road as a very educated population to understand that We need to develop really good approaches For evidence collection and the use not only in the present But as we go forward and learn more as we are in this process of developing our sophistication as a country If anyone hasn't read the task force, I urge you to do it is very accessible to people and it's very knowledgeable And it gives us great respect for for the work that has gone into it There's also other reports in the that are out there that you I urge you to use them So what is cannabis? So we we're not using marijuana. We're using cannabis and cannabis has a long history We've got at least a 5000 year history of using cannabis. We're just catching up now with good policy It was part of our culture and religion etc as archie said What we do know is that Cannabis has a plant like many plants contains hundreds of compounds There's only a small proportion of those that are cannabinoids. They're very specific structurally and chemically They're very lipophilic that is they like to live in tissues These these compounds Have effect because they act on very specific receptors that are occurring in all of our bodies So the drive to understand what was psychoactive about cannabis Led to the discovery of both the chemicals that were present in these plants But also a very important fundamental system in our bodies. It was unknown really 30 years ago We all have an endogenous cannabinoid system This has receptors that respond to the cannabis that's in plants But it also responds to compounds that all of us make all the time our brains are Regulated and controlled and their functions modulated by this wonderful endogenous cannabinoid system So the endocannabinoid system And what this endocannabinoid system does is controls how neuron to neuron communication takes place It's widespread the cannabinoid receptors especially the ones that are particularly focused in the brain that the type one cannabinoid receptors Are some of the most common receptors that are found in the brain They're concentrated in areas that are very much involved in things like memory emotion Cognition that is our ability to think and reason our motivation And our motor coordination. So it's not surprising that these are potent drugs when you apply them Exogenously that when you are exposed to cannabinoids they can have effects Not all cannabinoids are psychoactive like the major one in cannabis Tetrahydrocannabinol or THC that everyone's heard of Many of the other of the more than 100 compounds have different properties But they all have a potential to both have possibly Good medical untapped medical potential as well as potential harm So what we really need to do is not only understand how these systems work, which is what scientists are working on But understand where the harms are and Where we have medical potential So I had to write big because I I don't I was too vain to wear my reading glasses I'll be completely frank about that So Most people are aware that there's short terms effects of the drugs That is when you're exposed to the drug there's going to be some transient effects So these include things like altered consciousness or how we perceive and and process information mood and behavior I want to leave you with something to think about and to never forget as good educated canadiens and and budding pharmacologists Dose matters dose always matters So that means that the absolute amount of drug that you're exposed to as well as the frequency of use and the duration of use Is important Because it's really those things that lead to the long term effects The root of drug Administration is going to be important So whether we're talking about people smoking which might have its own consequences Or vaporizing at lower temperatures or using edibles that we're going to hear about So so root of administration is going to have some different effects Long term effects, you know, they're they're we have to Face the fact that cannabinoids are somewhat unique drugs. They can't accumulate in bodies So the brain can also change in response to chronic exposure to these drugs High dose high frequency high potency drugs that are consumed over long periods of time Can change the way our brains respond and alter this very important endogenous cannabinoid system that we need to have proper brain function So of course, there's going to be some people That may actually develop dependence There may be some people that have and there's good evidence for this a compelling body of evidence Long-term cognitive impairment And there's a growing body of evidence It's one of the areas of active research is that some people are highly vulnerable to developing severe mental illness Now this is not to say that all people that the drug is bad unto itself It says to us That individuals differ and it's genetics are really going to play a role in helping us understand How individuals different and having each of us make good informed decisions about how we use the drug So we differ genetically. We know that that that makes sense We differ in terms of our our sex and gender so that that genetics that come in that there's different Responses between men and women. We need to face that and accept that We know that probably the the um the complex genetics that go into developing diseases Are also there's another set of complex genetics that are going to go to how we respond to these drugs This is going to be important But above and layered on top of all of this is that age is going to matter as it's been alluded to We have a lot of very young people using cannabis and as we move forward we have to accept That the adolescent brain All the way from the 10 12 year olds are using all the way up to the 25 year olds and the brain is still under development Are more vulnerable than adults Importantly everyone should realize that the long-term consequences of cannabis use may be very different If use was started at a very at a young age or even in a late adolescent age Compared to being an adult so that we have to accept that we are going to be doing a very long-term experiment as people are exposed Cannabis is getting stronger So the plants themselves are changing and maybe fewer boomers were smoking marijuana now because they don't realize it's actually a lot stronger than it used to be Just putting that out there so Importantly there's a group at dial and I I have to give a plug for the somebody that I work close with dr Rudolph who or who's a psychiatrist here part of the severe mental illness clinic and and he is He and others around the world have recognized that the the potential for the for Severe mental illness increases with cannabis use when I say severe mental illness It includes things like psychotic disorders schizophrenia bipolar depression and major depression So that we know that there's genetics some group some individuals or more vulnerable to develop these illnesses It's important for us to realize that cannabis is a very important modulator of that genetic influence so that We need to understand how that affects those individuals The real question that we I think that we need to start looking at right now is not everyone's going to be negatively affected by cannabis If it's used responsibly and we understand that dose matters But we do know that there's some individuals who could be highly harmed and genetics may be the thing that we can predict early Who needs better education to avoid this drug, especially during those critical periods of development so What is our future for brain function? Not only does dose matter and age matter and our Gender matters and our ethnicity matters, but it's going to be that in future We don't really know the full impact on brain function and for myself I don't know if people we have Certain genetic predisposition to degenerative disorders are have the potential to be helped by cannabis If they're exposed for long periods time or be harmed Will it treat symptoms or will it change disease progression? So I think that one of the things that we really need to do is understand that genetics play a role in our personal health management We need research and we need to be open to to being Informed and mindful as we collect this data going forward Our physicians need to have good discussions with us and we need to see ourselves Not just one canadian among millions, but also with individuals with a different genetic risk So i'll leave it there and thank you very much Okay Good evening I'm daryl dexter. I'm pleased to be part of this panel. Some of you may recognize me from other movies I'm going to talk a little bit about Um The challenges on the distribution side and i'm going to start uh really By talking about the legislative process and kind of where we are and what the time frames are and and then kind of more toward What the models will actually look like so i'm i'm kind of taking an article of faith because I can't actually see those screens That the title page is up. So i'm going to now go to the very first page Which is though it should be the legislative process if i'm talking about something you have no idea what it is Back one Okay, there we go legislation and regulatory process and and this is important As this as this slide points out This bill came bill c 45 came to first reading in april of this year I moved to second reading in june and then on to health committee hearings. It just wrapped up a short time ago The hearings are complete but the health committee is actually meeting right now as we are setting here and in fact I not Five minutes ago. I got a note from one of my colleagues saying that there had just been an amendment That was introduced around edibles and I don't know if it has been If it was a government amendment or whether or not it's been passed, but this literally is developing This story continues to develop as we're as we're setting here and as The chancellor pointed out it was a good Chance that the the premiers will all have something to say about it By the time we get out of here this evening They can see I've left a question mark in this box between where we are now and the provincial retail Market launch, which is in july of 2018. There's a good reason for that I want to explore that time a little bit further so you can understand it But I wanted you to know that there are things that are going to happen after that as well So you have food regulatory and drug regulatory changes So that are the regulations, which are going to likely govern edibles, which there is a A broad conversation taking place on and then after that You're likely going to see regulation around cosmetic and veterinary uses For for cannabis. So no surprise to anyone. I'm sure that there are going to be cannabis infused pet foods Very low thc high on cbd because as I understand that thc is very dangerous for animals So I'm going to move to the To the next Slide This is that box that had the that had the question mark in it So we're at the the host of commons section. They're going through clause black clause as I said They are going to go on a break week from the 9th to the 13th so the Committee report will be tabled in the host of commons either right before they go on break week or right After they get back When they get back They will go to the committee stage debate and vote and then third reading debate and vote So that will likely take till sometime in mid november at which point it will go to the senate And you can think of the senate as the host of commons only, you know, kind of rents and repeat, right? So you have the same process First reading second reading debate and vote and then you have the committee stage It will likely go To the committee on social affairs Science and technology That will take us up to december 22nd at which point the senate will take a break They'll be on break from december 23rd to january 29th They'll come back on january 30th, and they will start the senate committee This will Include the the study in the report the report stage debate vote and the third reading a debate vote So you're going to get to royal ascent Somewhere in late april in mid may You're going to get regulations released for consultation of the canon Canada gazette. This is very important for the Distribution model Five to thirty day consultation period Early mid june cabinet will approve regulations. I assume mid to late june final regulations published to the canadazette part two So we are now Mid to late june for a july 1st launch date of the provincial retail market Um Well, what what does what does this mean for the provinces? I'm going to get to this in a second I want to now just have a look at the legislative provisions of bill c 45 Um section 69 of the bill is the actual uh piece of the legislation That authorizes the provinces to Create the distribution model and what it says is a person may possess cell or distribute Cannabis if the person is authorized under provincial act that contains the legislative measures in Subsection c subsection c are a bunch of common sense kinds of things like security record keeping Who you can buy from who you can sell to not a problem Sections 36 and 37 are self-service displays and selling and and distributing You you can't Distribute by a by means of a dispensing device So what they don't want is you to be able to go up to a coke machine kind of style thing and and and have it dispensed It's a it's a it's an odd misunderstanding of what dispensing technologies. I've actually liked these days, but I'll leave it at that for now Um the self-service display means that you cannot go in and you won't have A customer experience like you have in the provincial liquor stores So you can't go in and look at product on a shelf and pick it off and And um and go I'll go up to a counter So provincial distribution. So the provincial distribution has to comply with bill c 45 As I have already already laid out for you the path for this piece of legislation which takes us up until june So the provinces in all likelihood in the spring are going to have to bring in some kind of framework legislation Which I assume they will hold until the host of commons are actually finished Their their legislation It's it's not impossible for that to be done. It's a little awkward. I think but it's not certainly not impossible And and in fact if I had my druthers, I would rather see them actually stick to a july 1 date, I think having a hard and fast Date is a good thing But I'm just saying that makes it difficult in the provinces when you're looking at The the the fact that you're responsible for distribution I also think by the way that 36 and 37 Are a little unnecessary if you if you're actually Sending distribution for the provinces why are you then reeling back in some of the ability of the of the provinces to to decide How they're going to distribute? I mean you're giving them the responsibility on one hand and then taking it back from them I think we're at provincial distribution. Is that what's on this on the screen good? So september 8th as the chancellor mentioned Ontario confirmed that they're going to have a crown corporation a retail model They're going to have both online and storefront They plan to have 60 stores to be opened in the first year and 150 stores opened by 2020 The the problem is not with the number of stores. It's the way that they have described They're going to be set up. This is a return to the 1950s style And there's not a lot of people in here who will remember the 1950s But if you do it is a 1950 style of distribution where you'll essentially go through a door walk up to a wicket You'll ask for something somebody will go into the back. They'll get it. They'll bring it out In all likelihood a very poor customer experience There may be there may be There may be I there may be iPads or something that you can kind of peruse through but It's yeah, but it's yeah all in all My hope is that they will move away from this As they get closer to the actual distribution date on september 14th New Brunswick announced the crown corporation For the province supply agreements really really really important I'm going to talk about the slow supply gap if I have enough time This is going to be a real problem. I'm told I have three minutes now Okay, I'm going to move on to the next The next Slide I just want to go through this really briefly you probably all can imagine what the possible distribution options are going to be They're going to be different depending on the province that you're in bc has had a very long standing And well recognized dispensary community In other parts of the of the country you're going to you're going to see A mix of crown corporations maybe with some private retail depending on where you are in the country it will When the legislation was originally brought in it was brought in to say what should respond to kind of the the local Considerations in the provinces and and the distribution model would do that My question is well, there will be a there will almost all certainly be an online Component to any distribution profile You know 80 percent of canadiens buy online It's the process that already works In under the existing regulations. There's no reason for that not to happen The will local licensed producers be able to do Sales at their at their at their individual facilities That's a question that I think is still open and live I believe that the distribution chain is actually an opportunity for innovation and that there are lots of things that that The province can do You know, I know you know, there's a discussion going on about cafes and and And lounges those you know those have to do with the actual ability to In fact use a say a product which the government has decided you're able to have If you're in an apartment building and the apartment building says you cannot use it there And it's prohibited for use in public. Then where do you use it? There has to be an alternative for that I'm so Have I got to the last slide challenges. Is that what's up there? Good Supply gap big challenge. So the parliamentary budget office has said that The that the demand for For cannabis in this country will be about 650,000 Kilograms the capacity of the licensed producers to produce in 2017 when this goes live is about 80,000 kilograms So the the the difference is immense Um Mackie research that does research for investors says that in fact the The um The market is actually 800,000 kilograms But he said but they say that the ability of the licensed producers is about a hundred thousand either way you slice it There's a huge supply gap that won't be remedied by the licensed producers probably until about 2020 So there's a problem marketing and branding restrictions You're going to have an undifferentiated product competing with a supply chain that is already well developed that is low cost And and is efficient And if you have very restrictive marketing and branding issues, it's very difficult for local producers License producers to be able to compete with that supply chain sections 36 and 37. I already mentioned You can ask me about dispensing technology. I'm happy to talk about it, but I won't right now price including Taxation obviously a big issue as I've mentioned you've got to compete with a supply chain that's already in place There's a rule in economics that says the lowest cost supply chain usually wins So whatever the price is that you intend to reach at some point in time It better be able to compete effectively with the already existing low cost supply chain Employee training. This is an issue Consumer experience I mentioned Preparing for the edibles market there is already folks and some of you will know this a well Defined edibles marketplace. You could go online at this very moment If you buy more than 200 bucks worth of stuff shipping is free. They'll send it by canada post You know so the competition in the edibles market is is going to be is going to be Something that's going to have to be dealt with I put municipal consultations up there Somebody's got to consult with the municipalities about where if you're going to have bricks and mortar Where they are going to be located every time I look at the list of challenges I could easily put six more things on here including the rights of employees working in locations to Have occupational health and safety standards If you're going to have lounges and cafes, so there are just every time you think about this It's a bigger set of challenges. Can we get ready? Of course we can and we should but I'm I'm just saying there is there are there is plenty of work to do between now and July 1st. Thank you Thank you Daryl First of all, I want to thank my colleague Camille for organizing this event And I see my colleague Frank Harvey Dean of the social sciences in the room here Being here make us very happy. I think it's our role as a public institution to engage with community on on very important topics Trump now cannabis and Yeah, things are pieces are moving as we speak right now. So it's quite exciting And frankly, uh, I've learned a great deal Tonight so far because I'm not a cannabis expert just so you know My area of research is food distribution and policy. So I look at everything that can disrupt the efficiency of of food from far farm to fork and from fork to farm And that's why I got into the cannabis issue really um A reporter about a year ago told me you can order edibles online And I didn't believe her And I did order online and I got the products as you said It's my god This is and there's no regulatory framework on this. I I'm not a cannabis expert So I have no idea what the quality of the product is Obviously, I didn't I didn't consume it. So so but uh, I was intrigued Six months later. I had a venture capitalist coming to my office someone with capacity And told me so they I want you to look into the edibles Why I think there's lots of potential there to sell edibles once kind of misses legalized in canada really Then it planted a seed in my head. No pun Uh And then a few a few weeks later We got this idea of this panel and that's why we needed we need to go out there and and assess the situation All canadiens are feeling about cannabis Are we ready? Are we getting ready? And that's that's the kind of question we we gave ourselves and to make things even more interesting I was invited by by um by law blah in toronto a few months ago To sit down with uh, quite a few known chefs Chefs running restaurants restaurant operators And we were all asked to signal signal the top food trends over the next 10 years Every single chef in the room add cannabis on that list Every thing so it's not just about food retailing It's about food service as well and and the food service in the industry is the 80 billion dollar business Food retailing is worth 120 billion dollars is in this country Just a few days ago metro acquired Jean Coutu for 4.5 billion dollars Loblaws purchased shoppers a few years ago As you talk to grocers, you see that there's a strategy. I'm not saying that that the cannabis Issue is pushing these companies to invest billions of dollars in the far and in in pharmacy in pharmacy outlets But all I'm saying is that it is in the back of their heads moving forward growing the business So we went out and assessed canadiens And frankly what we found out was very interesting The results were published all around canada last week It wasn't most newspapers in the country. In fact This week The report is being published in many newspapers in the u.s. Right now And I've been receiving we've been receiving phone calls from colorado washington states Asking us how did you how how did how were you able to conduct this study? You're a university And I have to tell you right now. I'm very proud to be a professor at dal housey Because they allowed us they allowed us to really assess the situation on edibles in the u.s. Right now There are 60 million consumers who have access to edibles right now And there's little research. There's lots of research on the public health side But on edibles and on consumption side, which is my side. There's there's little of it We don't know what's going on people's heads how people are reacting our people Engaging our people assessing risk for themselves their loved ones friends, there's a lot of It's quite unclear I I personally think that the stigma of the legalization of cannabis Is fueling the confusion out there? And when we looked at the results of our survey, we realized that Canadians are The majority canines are favorable to the legalization of cannabis But there's there is a lot of confusion out there And that's why I'm very happy to do these to to be part of this event because this is about informing. This is about getting better educated About about this important issue So I'll give you a few results that we found out if you didn't know So we asked canines. Are you in favor of the legalization of cannabis? So 68 percent of canines are in favor of the legalization of cannabis So the majority it's consistent with other say other surveys we've seen on this issue in the past But out of 68 percent 93 percent would be willing to try A edible product a cannabis infuse food product The temptation is there But c45 doesn't really Explicitly include edibles although Daryl just told me that it may may be included with an amendment going on right now Which I think would be good news Now in terms of concerns and it was we talked about health The impact on health 58 percent of Canadians are concerned about the health of children and young adults And let me tell you as dean I don't know how you feel Camille, but as dean of one of the largest faculties on campus I actually think that alcohol makes things complicated enough I'm not sure if marijuana will make things easier for us So if I'm concerned certainly and the research shows that we should be so the majority canines are concerned Here's a bit of a paradox for you looking at different regions from around the country So if I ask you which province is most favorable to the legalization of cannabis, what would you say? bc right So if you said bc you're correct Now i'm going to ask you this question. Which province do you think is most concerned about the health of children and young adults? bc I know I was going to say kebek too That's my own province So I think it speaks to how educated bc may be this is just speculating but bc is is very liberal There's there's a different feel there. I suspect that they know what what what this means to them So that was very interesting Now we asked question about cooking Would you cook with cannabis at home? 19.5 of canines would Now the reason why that percentage is so low is that most people just wouldn't know what to do with cannabis They would be concerned about dosage How how how would you manage cannabis as an ingredient? So there were lots of uncertainties around there and perhaps we should have a discussion If it if we are to make this thing legal and we are selling through the lcbo or crown Of the lcbo or a new brunswick if we are to sell this product and people go home with it. What is going to happen? So there's a huge void educational void there that we found out Restaurants we asked canines. Would you order a dish? spaghetti with sauce with You know Some sprinkle on it And 38.5 percent of canines would be willing To order a dish with cannabis in it Now asking them if they would substitute Their alcoholic drink for cannabis 29 percent of canines said yes, so there's still this they know they understand the implications of alcohol They understand what alcohol does to their bodies But marina is still unknown and frankly, I think Most people in this room would would agree with that Is cannabis considered as a healthy ingredient? 12.6 percent So it's not seen as something because we're in this era of functional foods Especially boomers looking for health benefits in their food Cannabis may not be it for manufacturers and that's why we asked that question. So that was an interesting result But let's look at the Atlantic region for just a second since we are in the Atlantic region here Asking people are they favorable to cannabis? And the answer is 51 The Atlantic region is highly divided on this issue We have to accept that And so and the majority of people living in the Atlantic region are concerned about the health of children And young adults as well So there's I think there's lots to learn about cannabis From from a food distribution point of view because that's the area. I know very well But when I've when I spoke to some some university Professors out in colorado and washington states over the last few weeks Uh, one person told me something I I will remember and he said listen We we didn't do everything right as ann mentioned. I think we need to give ourselves a chance and do things right and I agree with that But he said one thing that really stuck with me if we are to legalize cannabis in this country Regardless if we agree With the policy or not We have to be friended We have to accept it to do it right To adopt a comprehensive policy around the legalization of cannabis And addables as well Because as daryl said Addables are out there already So we should protect ourselves or make sure that we do protect ourselves knowing That this product is already out there That's something that's a message that really stuck with me and so My message to you looking at edible I think it's it's a tremendous opportunity for for the food industry and they see that Clearly see that But at the same time I believe as a society we need to do our job To make sure that this is done the right way. Thank you So i'm the last speaker on this this panel So i'll try and keep my remarks relatively brief because I know that there are questions that we need to take So my name is melanie kelly and i'm a professor in pharmacology And I work in the area of translational pharmacology. So preclinical work on the medical benefits or therapeutic benefits of cannabis I work a lot with dr. Eileen denovan right and i'm involved in developing novel cannabinoid therapeutics that are useful for pain And inflammation So i've been given the job of talking about medical access To cannabis and i'm going to try and frame my remarks to keep them relatively brief Under a couple of questions. Where are we now? Are we ready? And prepared and what can we do to improve access? The way it currently stands But i'll i'll just preface this by saying that dr. Denovan right mentioned the endocannabinoid system And although a lot of the research is relatively new What we do know is that this is a very important system. It controls many basic biological functions Pain the immune system or cardiovascular system our brain So there's a lot of Possibility in ingesting compounds that act on this system that we can affect These particular functions in a negative way But the opportunities to modulate the system for the benefit of canadians and and and globally for health is immense at this time And what most people don't realize is that there is a huge body of preclinical evidence that supports the therapeutic use Of cannabis and its constituent cannabinoids the compounds that are in the plant so There's a lot of interest in moving forward in developing good cannabis based therapeutics But how are we going to do that? So right now cannabis is not an approved drug in canada It hasn't met the standards for the food and drug administration And those standards Would result in a notice of compliance and a drug identification number and that's what you'll see on most of the drugs that you buy So most canadians Who are accessing medical cannabis are getting it under the access to cannabis for medical purposes Regulations so it just provides a method that the courts have mandated that they can legally obtain medical cannabis for their needs So what's going to happen after Legalization well the task force that I want to thank ann mclellan and the many Other members on the task force. I mean this was a heroic effort really In providing really thoughtful and useful recommendations to the government They've recommended that the acnpr or the access to cannabis for medical purposes regulations continue Which I believe is a very important step For patients who are accessing cannabis Under the acnpr And what this means for patients? Is that they need a recommendation if they want to receive medical cannabis which they get from their doctor Not a prescription a recommendation And then they can obtain it directly from licensed producers and as daryl dex just pointed out there's various methods But it's by mail. It's delivered And you order online or you speak to someone at a licensed producer Also patients can register directly with health canada to grow in their own Cannabis and this is based on the recommended amounts from their health care provider They can also stipulate someone to grow Cannabis plants for them and this is something that the task force is hoping will not continue Or has recommended that be looked at and possibly not continued as we move forward after legalization So just to remind canadians that in addition to medical cannabis It's essentially a plant has many different constituents which always makes it difficult to follow the traditional drug route We have availability already to prescription cannabinoids through health care providers But to date, you know, even for prescription cannabinoids, they're not readily prescribed for canadians largely due to the Lack of education among the health care community in terms of the end of cannabinoid system So where are we now? We have the acnpr For Canadians who are currently using medical cannabis. We have prescription drugs We are moving forward Currently Canadians are using medical cannabis for a number of indications The largest one is pain for example neuropathic pain chronic pain conditions Canadians are also using it for spasticity and pain in multiple sclerosis conditions For nausea and vomiting. It's been prescription cannabinoids are approved for that and patients are also looking to use cannabis for that particularly for chemotherapy Mood disorders, this is something that many Canadians are accessing cannabis for and mood disorders that involve things like anxiety And sleep disturbances such as PTSD or post traumatic stress syndrome Also for inflammatory diseases of the GI tract the bowel Crohn's disease, etc and neurological disorders such as Tourette's syndrome Patients are using cannabis medical cannabis for that as well as prescription cannabinoids And I just want to point out at this point is we have Only moderate evidence for several of these indications such as chronic pain We significantly lack good clinical evidence in many of these cases So while we're ready for legalization and should we continue to maintain a separate medical Stream for cannabis. I mean that's something I've been hearing talked about a lot I think that patients are very concerned that a medical stream is is maintained and the task force has recommended that this continues For the next five years and we reassess that at that time So why should we maintain a separate medical framework? Well, I think that there is a big difference between recreational non-medical use and medical use We need to support patients as well as health care providers as we move forward I mean patients experience a lot of stigma even visiting their doctor and requesting medical cannabis So that's an issue that needs could be Exacitated if we move away from recognizing a separate medical access for cannabis Um, we need incentives. I mean, we're not going to develop better products if we don't incentivize medical cannabis Inter for for things like pharmaceutical companies If there isn't a separate medical stream and it's simply one stream after legalization It'll be difficult to convince pharmaceutical companies to move down the line of developing drug identification number Products and that'll be important To try and get better therapeutics So there's a lot of reasons for that access for patients Darrell Dexter's already identified that there's going to be a big possibly Potentially large supply gap. I think many patients who are using medical cannabis are extremely concerned about this They're concerned about access to specific varietals or chemo vars of cannabis I mean dr. Denneven Wright pointed out that cannabis is more than just thc Or the main psychoactive ingredient that recreational users are seeking It contains lots of other different cannabinoids and some of those have already shown good evidence of therapeutic benefit And many patients want specific varieties that may have more of those types of cannabinoids in So we want to ensure that they can have access to the type of cannabis that they need So that's one thing the other thing is reimbursement or cost For many patients medical cannabis and as well as pharmaceutical drugs are a huge significant burden The task force is recommended that medical cannabis will not be taxed differently from recreational But right now canadians can can't receive prescription drugs and don't pay gst I would suggest that it would be useful to consider looking at the different structure for how Medical cannabis is funded or whether or not we can develop better products with drug identification numbers that would be accessible For insurance coverage and in Nova Scotia alone. There was a recent case that has been debated here In the courts about medical insurance coverage of cannabis So these are all issues that are up in the air right now that we need to think about with respect to patients Where they are burdened by the costs of their medication Some of the the things that we need to to think about by maintaining a strong medical Stream for cannabis and for cannabinoids is what can we do to make it better in the future? And that's what I think I'd I'd want to end on by stressing That the task force Outlined very strongly a recommendation for more research and more education And this is education not just focused on the consumer or the medical patient But also education for healthcare providers Both for doctors and for pharmacists. I mean right now the endocannabinoid system is not a formal part of medical training It's not a formal part of pharmacist training Some people teach it sometimes they don't Most doctors are very uncomfortable with talking about medical cannabis with their patients And they're also very uncomfortable recommending it. They don't know what dose they should recommend what type of product What is going to be best for so we need to support Both patients and also healthcare providers by providing that information that will lead to better education We need to educate within the medical school about the endocannabinoid system We need to understand better about the plant so we can help licensed producers and other people working in that field So we produce better strains That meet patients needs And we also need to think about cannabis therapeutics. How are we delivering it? Can we deliver it better? So for instance smoking is something you certainly wouldn't want to advocate for your patients But there are already an increase in within the industry in very innovative ways of delivering cannabis In a more dose standardized method And so these are things that we should be encouraging and by maintaining a medical stream We will incentivize the industry to continue to progress along those lines Which is really important for patients. It gives them far more choice as we move forward for the future Besides education and training and and understanding the needs of patients We really need knowledge transfer What's really the point in generating all this new information when we don't share it properly across all the different stakeholders That are involved in this. How do we communicate to patients new new research? How do we communicate to doctors about how they should be prescribing if it becomes a prescription? Right now. It's a recommendation How do we communicate with other scientists so that we know what's going on and we can make we can get together and collaborate to Actually make a stronger System so these are the things that that we're that are being considered at the moment in terms of medical Cannabis and cannabinoids But how's all this going to be funded? That still isn't entirely clear. I mean, I would suggest it would not be inappropriate for the government to Transfer or to set aside some of the revenue from taxing non-medical cannabis towards research that goes towards the therapeutic benefits of cannabis um Focused funding from the federal In institutes such as the canadian institutes of health research These are all areas that need to be explored and definitely I would hope that you as consumers In term either from the point of view is met of medical cannabis But also recreational will demand these kinds of research initiatives from the government as we move forward. Thank you Thank you very much. This is one of the best behaved panels. I've ever been involved with They've So far tuna they've stayed to the time very nicely When we assembled this group and when we were thinking about how best to present this panel We wanted to get a group of experts who would combine Their own learning and knowledge with identifying issues and ways forward and I think they've really done a very good job So let's give them all of them We have set up microphones and we've reserved time for questions So don't be shy if you have any questions that you'd like to address to the panel Please come up to a mic. You can address it to a specific person Or you can ask it generally and the panel can fight over who's going to um take the question and I think this Person here this woman. Yes Go ahead. Ask your question. This one on is it on Yeah, okay First just a comment and then a question quick comment As you were talking about edibles all I could visualize was going to the movie theater and putting butter on my popcorn Having choices, you know but My question is right now. We are restricted Moving alcohol across provinces So I'm wondering if any consideration is given to uh people sort of it shopping interprovincially You know, uh for for a cannabis and moving it The answer to that is yes the so if you If you use online technology and you're going to shop online so you want to buy something from A licensed producer in british columbia if you use online technology It uses geo fencing. So it can tell it can the technology can actually tell Exactly where you're ordering from and that's important because that's the provincial tax you'll pay and um, and it will Um, it will prompt you on a series of security questions in order to determine your your age um, this is this is technology that Now is already being used for example in the online gambling industry. It's it's Considered quite secure From a payment perspective. So The the great thing for the various provinces is it can generate reports very quickly in terms of the amount that's being bought The tax revenue that's coming in it's all that's why it's very likely that online Um, as I said online purchasing will be part of any kind of Distribution profile for provinces But I think daryl, correct me if I'm wrong if you look at the ontario Scheme that's been proposed you, uh, are only going to be able to purchase online From their Retailers right so what they're doing is they're putting online in but you got to go through their portal to Purchase that's right. But what can you purchase? Can you purchase from tail ray and as I understand it? You'll be able to purchase from any license producer Now, okay. I wasn't clear about that last that assumes that that assumes that the that the That they are going to list all on their product list all of the license producers. Thank you. All right. Yep, okay Um, if anyone wants me to come to them just give me a wave and I will come to you Okay, next I think is this gentleman with the blue shirt. Yes at this microphone. You're you're next and then we'll come over here Sure. Yeah, my name is Evan price. Um, I happen to be President of the churro purple company, which is uh, one of the license producer applicants from churro It's good to be back in the beginners room. I'm uh Dal alum and while I while I was here I was also vice president of the student union for finance so um, the uh, one of the I guess The the biggest area that I'm concerned with uh why I get into this is around the supply gap. So um, as daryl mentioned Uh, that there are it's like 10 20 percent if you add up all the the space that could produce today or even over the next year That there will be maybe 10 to 20 percent of patients and consumers under legalization that will be Their demand will be met. So my question would be is that obviously my product's all going to be sold So that's that's not an issue, but I'm worried about the 80 percent of people that won't be able to find product and is the the reaction from government going to be to trade uh, like license producer quality for some form of Availability and I'm interested to hear what What the provincial and federal governments think that they can do to influence either Who'd like to take that question? Well, I think the answer to the question is no around the sacrifice of quality um What I would say is that the government of canada as far as I know is Obviously, they're looking very closely at the supply demand curves And they have estimates They're more or less. I think in line with that which you heard from daryl What is interesting is if you look in the united states in the first year after legalization Only 25 percent of consumers actually bought from the legal market right So when you think about uh supply issues and we want to encourage everybody to buy from the legal market, obviously But you do have to be practical about what is going to happen in that first year And it has taken states like colorado and washington more than a year to get Significant numbers of people moving from the illegal market to the legal supply market So while that is likely to be the supply The demand in and around that 650,000 that that daryl mentioned How that is met I think is going to be an interesting question And the other thing I would say is licensed producers are ramping up Very quickly in anticipation of july for example aurora Where I live in alberta is going to produce the equivalent of 19 canadian football fields Founded interesting. They specified canadian football fields, but there's a reason for that 19 canadian football fields worth of cannabis when they're fully up and running now That's going to take a little bit of time You're also going to have big quality control issues with the production facilities that large And some of the people I talk to are a little concerned. They're not clear that quality control Is going to be that easy to maintain In production facilities that large So all that to say that I think your question is a good one And we have a lot to learn around the supply demand the actual supply and demand That happens as of july 1st 18 And as with everything else, this is going to be a work in progress. We're going to learn Other thing I should say is probably the federal government is considering whether or not they'll let importation If that demand curve is way out of sync Okay, thank you To this person Thank you panel and um dean cameron So I'm sitting here and I feel like I'm in a twilight zone In a twilight, I think it's good that it's being legalized um in a twilight zone because As a black canadian My community has borne the brunt of this war on drugs and I believe um chancellor mclellan You were a minister at the time when the war on drugs was happening African canadian people, especially young men Have been jailed Have been criminalized because of carrying maru and I'll say the word marijuana marijuana spliff So for example, I was in anterio three weeks ago And I was talking to one of my young neighbors. He's 25 years old. He's a black man And I live in Nova Scotia now. So he was happy to see me and he said You know, I'm thinking of leaving Canada. I said why he said I can't get a job I have a conviction. I have marijuana convictions and everywhere I go I'm You know, I'm blocked. He has automotive skills His parents want to set him up to go to a country overseas to open a garage so he can have a future one social scientists call this situation That these people experience As citizens minus they are citizens minus and my heart is breaking because thousands of people from my community Can't find work or unemployable because of the war and drugs that has decimated my community marijuana for marijuana possession And now I see it's been legalized and my community has been left behind So I'm saying there needs to be reparation So I that for that people like that young man people Like that young man who can't find a judge who is a citizen minus in this country Must be given a grant so he can set up a distribution center So he can gather around young men around him and they put on a suit And they can go and grow the thing because it's not going to be legal and get a future Okay, I'm going so so One more thing Dean Cameron I'm asking the people especially the people from government Like mr. Dexter and chance to McClellan if there's going to be A forgiveness practice In this because Jamaica for example, which is said to Um, not legalized. They're still afraid of the united states, but decriminalized Has taken the records of thousands of people and have wiped them clean Because the the the conviction has affected people's employability So I'm saying the african-canadian community which has been dealt with in the united nations Human rights commission, which by the way came out last week is no online You can read it the african-canadian community is once again Penalized by the legalization because my community does not have the money To set up these shops and things that are going to go up So there's a lot there's a lot here and there's several questions. I know I know camille I know But my community is one of the communities or a second speaker talked about the racialization of the Exactly. So I'd like to get them now to respond if I could and I'm I think archie Do you have a something to say about the forgiveness issue and Well, I I'm all in favor of forgiveness in general, but in particular, I I certainly am enthusiastically supportive of providing pardons for persons who have been convicted Of crimes in the past as the law then was That are no longer offenses government can I say easily do this the legal tools are available. I think for example in the united kingdom That in 2017 the uk justice minister Issued posthumous pardons for thousands of gay men who are convicted of Having sex, you know with same-sex partners Decades before So it was a comprehensive pardon in similar circumstances where the law had changed Unfortunately, you know attitudes had liberalized So there there are examples of government taking either executive action or legislative action to do exactly What the the questioner was suggesting and I think that there's an excellent case for it And I believe that canadians would be supportive Of such a move. I don't know that the government has made any commitment in that regard yet But on the other hand, I haven't heard hostility towards it by any means from government spokespersons So I think you've raised an excellent issue and I think the answer has to be yes I think mr. Trudeau in response Mr. Trudeau was asked by vice television a few months ago when he appeared there with ps parliamentary secretary bill Blair As to the question of pardons and as archie said the prime minister said no decision will Has been made but that it is something that they will look at after legalization So I think very much the door is open and I know that the three ministers involved in this file Are very much seized with the fact and we heard as a task force as we traveled across the country much discussion It was outside our mandate, but certainly much discussion around the possibility of Pardon and as I say I my sense is that it is an issue that mr. Trudeau will return to Okay, thank you This gentleman over here has been standing there patiently. Thank you very much My name is alec frith. I was I've been a medical marijuana User since about 12 for hep C that I received in the tainted blood scandal I've watched I'm really happy to be part of this because I've watched this This topic very closely my whole life And it was one of the first kind of inklings of disinformation that I had as a young teenager of Something that I've been being lied to and I think my question kind of combines the last two questions one about the supply gap and the other one about kind of Reconciling with a generation of people who were so brave and self-informed and well-informed to be fighting for this thing That is now being recognized on a societal level But they are now fighting in order to get over the criminalization. They've been they've been dealt through their whole whole life fighting for such a wonderful thing and When we talk about reconciling that after legalization, I think a lot of The issue for me is These people are being kind of After all their bravery and sacrifice being slowly marginalized out of the thing as a large corporate Entities will slowly take over this thing that people have in the grassroots have been fighting for for so long So how do we reconcile All this talk about supply gap when we have the supply chain low-cost supply chain that we talk about competing with When it's really not it's not criminal entities It's wonderful people that have been fighting to try to give medicine to their friends and their family For so long. How do we kind of reconcile that moral? I don't know. It just seems morally kind of shady In a way to talk in certain terms about this and not address that Anybody wanted to tackle that one? Everybody's looking at me I guess what I would say is as I referenced in my opening remarks Um There is an illegal market and we in the task force separated out organized crime From those who are growing unless you're a licensed producer in this country You are illegal and will be up until july sometime of 18, but it is really Unless you're medicinal medicinal, that's fine. That's I'm not talking about medicinal. I'm talking about the new adult market um And there are lots of growers out there who have been growing And we distinguish them from organized crime who are growing for example in the okanagan who go to the market every saturday morning The rcmp turn a blind eye. They sell to their neighbors and friends, right? We want those people in the legal system. We do not want them outside I have also gone on public record as saying that I do not believe a conviction for something like personal possession Should in fact exclude those people from being able to apply and all other things being equal be allowed to come inside the market We need that expertise. We need uh The in some cases decades long experience with genetics with strains All sorts of things so you you raise an important point And we hope that as many of those growers as possible come into And are able to come into the legal regime Okay, thank you very much. Yeah, thank you this gentleman here My name is chris ends and i'm the owner of the pharmacist medical cannabis resource center the first brick and mortar storefront dispensary here in novus scotia and Ultimately the first uh medical cannabis dispensary that was raided in novus scotia under daryl dexter's regime That being said, I think there's a great opportunity to make a mess here And I think there's a great opportunity to make a mess here and I want to express my gratefulness to the whole panel today I was an honor student at dalhousie Studying immunology microbiology. I was the president of the microbiology and immunology society And I was very passionate since a young child about going to medical school I actually moved here from ontario because I was so encouraged by the quality of education I heard that dal medical offered But in my fourth year of education I discovered the endocannabinoid system and I became confused about why it wasn't in my textbooks Why none of my professors were talking about it? And when I tried to engage my professors about this very topic in a very one-on-one Personal format there was an unwillingness to even acknowledge that there was an endocannabinoid receptor system In fact, I couldn't find a single one of my receptor Of professors who would engage any sort of dialogue about the cannabinoid receptor system And I was told I was a stoner out there in left field even though I had a throughout university It was at that moment my very last week of fourth year that I dropped out of my of my education here at dal I didn't finish my exams and I planted my first seeds and And the point of planting those seeds was that I hoped that I could turn cannabis flowers into extracts My hope was that I could turn cannabis flowers into extracts and provide them free of charge to cancer patients throughout the province Who would become licensed by their doctors to use medical cannabis because so many cancer patients are out of fragile time in their life Where they can't afford this medicine and if there's someone telling them that this medicine is going to cost them something And intelligent telling them that they need to increase their dose They need to get up to a gram or two of oil extracts per day before the medical literature really shows that this Isn't just good for nausea. This isn't just good for symptom relief But for things like cancer for some people this can even put the brakes on the development of that tumor And unless that this medicine was going to be free for those individuals so that we could provide them of proper education And then provide them the medicine without there being that tick of financial Incentive of there being a reason why i'm telling you to use this medicine because i'm going to benefit financially myself I felt that model needed to be out there rick simpson was an early Inspiration in that respect and i think over the past 12 years We've done a good job of advancing that program, but i have a lot of fear right now There's a separation between medical and recreational cannabis A dialogue that's ensuing when really the medical literature is very clear That cancer rates and debenture rates are exponentially lower In those who are chronic cannabis consumers And i'd be happy to share that medical literature from mainstream medical journals with anyone that wanted to Engage your dialogue about that after today. And so my question is specifically for mr. Daryl dexter Mr. Dexter i've reached out to you and i've asked you on behalf of the Nova Scotia association of medical cannabis dispensaries To please please work with us and help us to continue Making available to our patients the very medicines that they are so desperate for Please do not only offer your services to licensed producers who have very deep pockets Who are only here to profit off the medicine. We also have cash for you We have whole duffel bags of cash for you for real No, but as much cash as you want Please help the private and licensed designated growers of Nova Scotia under the medical regime And the current medical cannabis dispensaries who are specifically helping licensed medical patients Please help us on board into the new regime. Please help us continue to help those so we've got the question We've got the question. Thanks a lot. I'll turn it over to the panel. Will you work with us? I will say as a point of order. I don't think I'd make admissions about having duffel bags full of cash Well, that started out as a scientific question and then somewhere it went in a different direction But you know, first of all, I work I work for a government relations public affairs firm. We represent a Not just licensed producers. We represent people rate throughout the the distribution chain people who are interested in it and But I work within You know within a regime where I have to Consider every one of the the potential conflicts within that. So as I mentioned to you, I would consider I would consider the case that you made when we spoke on the phone And and we'll just have to go from there. I I can't give you a definitive answer But I would like to hear a definitive answer on the scientific question that you had posted Which is where it started. So I'll turn it over to one of our other panelists What was your name again? Yeah, you obviously didn't take either Eileen or my class at Dalhousie Because we definitely were talking about Edda could have it. Yes So the scientific question was what was it in there? Scientific literature Okay, so the scientific literature isn't evident It's not to say that there are the medical benefits definitely don't exist for sure There's extensive research in the pre-clinical area that it does the issue right now is not patient reported Evidence of efficacy because that's definitely there as well We lack the large controlled clinical trials that are needed really For the authorisation offered to really look at the question of whether something has benefit within the medical Under the medical context. So for instance areas like cancer We just don't have enough scientific Clinical data at this current time to make that statement. So for instance It could well be exactly as you say That is unequivocal, but right now there may be only three or four trials that meet the standards So for example in the area of pain, we have moderate to relatively good chronic pain at least data right now So eventually the statement that you've made may actually be True with respect to The data that's going to fall out of the trials that will hopefully be carried out But we need to to promote those trials We need to put money there and make that so so that the evidence that you're that you so so much claim is out There it's published it's accepted within the medical community And that that is an essential thing that we're lacking for many different indications right now Arlene anything to add to that or does that No, I would just reinforce that that I know that there's very many people that are highly enthusiastic and you know Our evidence cannot be anecdotal. It needs to be carefully controlled and we need to understand for every drug The risk and the benefit and while I will give you that there are very many people that believe that cannabis may be the cure from everything from Heartache to hemorrhoids. We don't have the evidence, you know, we have to be careful of what we say because that will Normalize things to thinking that we can we can use case reports when we need good Medical evidence and I think that what we're asking for is that we don't forget that there are medical uses That we do know that some of the uses that people are using it for may be beneficial in the short term But they may not be beneficial long term and we have to be cautious It's a very powerful drug with very many different components That are in combination And the strength of it is getting Stronger as the plants develop. So we have to be careful It's a drug that has potential for both harm and benefit as do all drugs Thank you this gentleman here Hi, my name is brendan a her and i'm a student at the king school of journalism I just have a question Last summer, I think karen casey said or minister casey said that there will be public consultations held on the legalization of Of cannabis this fall Just wondering when those consultations will be and if they'll be in a forum like this or in a more online poll or You might have to ask karen casey, but if there's anyone on the panel who has information about that I think there was a press announcement very recently within the past three days about the consultation process online, right? Yeah, it was a mainly online consultation Maybe some other features. I mean it didn't strike me as being particularly robust or open And it's rather late, but i'm not a representative of government Nor as it turns out So this gentleman over here in the blue shirt and then we'll come back to this microphone Hi, so i'm a masters in forensic psychology student at st. Mary's and i'm conducting research trying to take um look at questions To the student body regarding various issues with the legalization of marijuana And so we're looking to take Or to ask these questions pre legalization as well as post legalization And i'm just curious to what you guys think would be the most relevant questions to be asking at this opportunity since it is Sort of a natural experiment that we can collect data pre and post This law being passed. What what what are the most relevant things i should be asking at this opportunity? It's hard. I mean, I think it's a little bit hard for us to say that without Being partnered to your to your research hypothesis I'm sure if you write any one of us that might provide that you know by email an opportunity to have You know a bit of a dialogue and we can copy it to our fellow panelists It's it's a difficult question to ask off the top. So I won't presume to answer it But i'm sure people would be open to course I think that would be the best way to to do it Okay, yeah, this gentleman at this microphone Hey, oh hi um, my name is alexa blonde and I started a Mobile dispensary in my area of woofal, Nova Scotia. Um, I am A cannabis mega doser I suffer from a rare form of multiple sclerosis And I have managed to get off over 10 pharmaceutical drugs By mega dose and cannabis It has been very difficult. I'm very Poor i'm on regular social assistance benefits and I have been asking for help for years So, um, I'm also on another rare program. So I have a self-managed care program So over the years my caregivers my relationships my partners my children every relationship I ever had Has been threatened because I've need candidate. I've needed cannabis I have three children. I've never had any complaints in my community made above me I'm currently under investigation by the rcp for selling medical cannabis And growing unregulated because I don't have a family doctor and I haven't had one for two years I am federally protected. I have a right to grow not Clearly have my current residents, but I'm one of the people who's suffering in your limbo I guess my question is what are you going to do about the poor people on social assistance? Who know their rights who are stuck in the gray area and have no choice you all put on your pants and go to your jobs I live this way. I have no way out So please explain how I am to survive as a mega doser of a medicine who Is who cannot get it funded and I would not trust your license producer sources With the making of my medicine. So how do you plan to address my situation as it sits right now? I'm I'm going to begin by saying just so everyone is entirely clear I mean, we're here as a group of experts, but we're not here as a governing body that has the authority to make decisions I just want to make that very clear Anyone want to take a shot at this one? Well, I certainly think that that medical cannabis products should be part of the formulary that Is paid for under the public purse for persons who are in need. So I'm not Again speaking for government, but it seems to be to be a wholly legitimate expectation That your medical needs would be fully covered But I mean, I I I don't know who else on the panel can say anything You know, I it's obviously people in government who should be responding compassionately and appropriately to you Yeah, yeah, it's it's developing right and even today there was a case that was set out that that Are forcing benefits Health benefits companies to to provide this to the plan recipients to the to the plan members So, you know, you're quite right. This has been a long road. I whoever says over there as well. It has been a long road, but Gradually what we're as this legislation makes its way through You know, you you are seeing a This this and I think you said this to me before a couple of times This is a cultural shift that's taking place in this country And it's not going to happen all at once But you know over over the next I think over the next little while you're going to see more and more Provincial governments the federal government come to the realization that they have to respond to cases just like yours Okay All right, this gentleman in the blue shirt him. Hello, um, my name is Aaron prosper. I come from Escazoni first nation I sit on the Dalhousie senate as the indigenous students representative Um, and so my question, um, it might be be geared towards Dale Dexter or Ann McClellan Um, but my concern is the legalization of marijuana and as it pertains to first nations reserves Um, you if you're familiar in december 2016 The afn brought forward a motion to lobby the federal government to engage in consultation with first nations communities in a report that you chaired in november there was Bits and pieces that there was some consultation But then according to is it or day Um chief is it or day the regional chief for the ontario region in april 2017 He said there was little to no consultation with first nations And I say this quote from is it or day first nations jurisdiction on health and social systems And economic rights must be the starting point for dialogue with canada on the legalization of marijuana says regional um, ontario regional chief and so Seeing that the federal government has mandated the provinces, uh, to leave um run this legalization it then again puts Um first nations in limbo because provincial laws don't always pertain to first nations communities Because first nations communities are under federal jurisdiction. And so to me it's not just a bigger debate It's also a question of are we going to legitimize self-governance within first nations communities? I think it's an opportunity for the federal government to do that But right now they haven't and they haven't given first nations the opportunity to um to self-regulate to Put their own legislation because there is the umbrella of the indian act and we're not allowed to do that Because it's illegal and we were you know pretend to hold hands and sing and say we support self-governance, but Essentially we're out of the conversation And so my question is do you think the federal government will give that autonomy to first nations community to self-regulate and to you know Benefit from the economy because we have so many like our af african-canadian relative said here You know, we are we are in the same boat um, and it looks like we won't even benefit because we're in the limbo of you know, and almost like health care and jordan's principle Are we going to be put back into this debate of is it federal or provincial jurisdiction within the first nations community? Um, you know, why not have us on the forefront in these conversations? Okay, I can speak to what we did as a task force. We had a specific round table for aboriginal canadians And we had a number of Representatives from aboriginal communities uh at that gathering not as many as we would have liked We also heard individually in the form of written submissions from a number of first nations across the country In terms of what uh, they were hoping to see as legalization and regulation moved forward At the round table. It was interesting um in that uh Just as with uh any community you had elders who spoke passionately about their concern about legalization of cannabis because of the addiction problems That the elders were living with and helping young people deal with in their respective communities um So we heard that side Of the concern around legalization of cannabis And on the other hand We heard from numbers of people in communities across the country about the potential economic opportunities Especially as cultivators that might exist for indigenous communities And in fact, there are indigenous communities that I've entered into already joint ventures for example with non aboriginal investors and cultivators Uh, one of those people actually one of the chiefs was at the round table to which I referred Is that phil fontein? No, uh, but phil certainly has attended events where I have been present and has talked about his and other's interests in this area Our recommendation was a general one that the government of canada Work closely and consult closely with indigenous communities across the country to ensure One they understood the interests and concerns and two that there were uh, there was a clear understanding and opportunity to Participate economically. Thank you, Anne. I'm going to go over to the gentleman in the black Uh, hi everyone. Uh, my name is William Gagnon. I'm from Quebec Montreal I'm a first-year commerce student here at Dalhazi And I've been following the marijuana trend for a long time in terms of an economic standpoint I'm not a pro. Uh, I'm not really pro like, uh, you know every day use I'm very pro like when it comes to medical use Nonetheless, uh, since it's becoming quite a large commodity in canada Is it ever going to go to an international scale in terms of sale? And I guess I'd be a question for mrs. McClellan You mean in terms of canadian producers because we're like the first country canadian producers now Sell into a number of producers have received export permits to sell into countries such as germany australia For medicinal purposes I would anticipate and I believe licensed producers are anticipating That there will be a larger global market that develops especially on the medicinal side And canadian producers want to be able to where appropriate meet that market demand Thank you so much. Thank you This person here. Yeah, your turn Hi there. My name is Nicole Barzagar I used to manage two dispensaries here in town I'm also part of the dispensary association and my question for the board is What do you think the The layout of The province speaking to these small business owners that use these dispensaries these medical dispensaries To feed their families and and all these other kinds of things and also What is your plan when it comes to taking all of these? Growers that have been in the industry for 20 30 years who created this culture And basically made it made it what it is today who have fought every single day toward where we are now How are they going to be incorporated into this new system? And what does the province Have to say about speaking to all of these business owners that have come up all across the province I'm just going to interject here again and just remind everybody We don't have a group of policy makers here. We have a group of experts here So but if there's anyone on the panel who wants to respond to that There was two parts to the question. Yes, the first part was The first part was is the province what what's the framework going to look like for the province to sit down and talk to these business owners So this is the really the same question same question all in consultations as far as I know the only thing that the province has announced is a set of online consultations They they haven't announced anything further than that in terms of engagement Okay Okay, I think this gentleman now. I did promise the panel. We'd be finished by we did answer the other part In terms of bringing people in yes But how do you plan to do that because you guys have like the the country has criminalized? All these people that have been in this so unless you're going to completely forgive and bring this community in Well, that's what I said. I said at least as far as I'm concerned in the task force We did not believe a conviction for simple possession if you're trafficking That's a whole other thing But if you have been convicted for simple possession, we do not see that that should be a barrier In and off itself to people being being brought into the legal system. And what about cultivation on that part Cultivation what cultivation growing? No, that's what I'm talking about. Just because you just said possession That's why I wanted to clarify. Yeah, okay. Yeah, I see. Sorry My question is uh, it's very similar just to directing in a different way. Obviously, you're not government representative I've tried to contact local government representatives just to get some information about consultations And Haven't gotten much information back So my question is quite simply, you know, how can all these good people here that are, you know From the dispensaries from the growers all these small businesses that do provide for their families What can we do? Who can we talk to? Who can we what cage can we rattle? Uh in order to get our views across that we don't want the ontario model, like you said, um indexer, so Just what's your advice as to engaging the government? That's a good question Yeah, it's one that I get paid for frequently Apparently with duffel bags of cash Who know I know But uh, no, I Seriously, I I mean at this point Uh for this province the only thing you can do in terms of I mean you have to have a strategy and engagement strategy for Whatever the consultation process is going to be and and My understanding from talking to chris is that the the dispensaries have in fact gotten together here They're forming an association for the purposes Of uh of responding to whatever that consultation program is going to be I mean that is the way that you go about do it. You have a narrative You have a narrative that you that you want to tell And you know, I mean There there are actually two places for you to do that there will be There will be opportunities Federally if you want to address changes to the actual Act either at this point because the health committee hearings are already done Perhaps at the at the senate Okay, thank you now. We're running out of time. So yeah, we're getting the song. We can only take one more question I'm going to take this woman here. I think you've been here the longest Hello, my name is d'Andre Phipps and I'm the manager of corporate affairs for national access cannabis And we run a number of clinics across canada We are a medical clinic and we hope to engage in the recreational market moving forward with a retail distribution So I just wanted to thank you all for coming. It was a great panel And a nice variety of expertise. So I do thank you for your time You know, there's a lot of big issues ahead and I thank you for tackling those head on It was refreshing to hear your opinion Um, I think we can all agree after hearing you speak that the legacy legacy costs of sick days The build-outs that the government is facing as well as the training and the other things that you mentioned Far outweigh a private approach where the industry will have innovation consumer choice variety With this in mind, uh, we've also just heard at the minister's meeting that there will be a recommendation for a special exercise on tax on marijuana at 10% split 50 50 with provinces Now, I don't know if this will necessarily divert the black market sales And if we with a little help from my friend evan here on the math, uh, for example, new brunswick wholesale is at 650 Program the tax will only really allow them to charge 850 per gram, which will You know get to that $10 mark quite quickly, which is not going to be able to compete with the black market So a two-part question one, how will new brunswick make money? This is going to be kind of the roll-up moving forward. Um, and second part is to look at ontario How will You know If it fails If this approach fails, um, you know, what what is next after that? Because I think there's a lot of public opinion right now On their approach and so it sounds like you may not be in support of a crown run approach So what's next if it doesn't work out? That's a big one Well, I just saw the story come across As well So but I wasn't clear from the story if the 10% excise it says it's supposed to be so this would displace any provincial excise tax but not displace the hst Right the federal so you would get a 10% tax and then you would get a tax cascade because you get an additional 15% on top of that Oh, that's Wait, well the state of washington learned that if they impose taxes that are too high You're not going to get people out of the black market or the illegal market And we in the task force were quite clear about the fact that price point is important here Uh for a number of reasons one of which is to deal with the illegal market Um, and if you tax this product too highly Obviously people and price points are especially important for young people. Maybe not for boomers so much They're going to go the quality route and all of that but for young people price point matters And that's why you want to keep that price as low as possible and why government should not be At least in the task force's opinion You know slapping on heavy taxes Seeing this as a revenue issue as opposed to a public health and public safety issue Okay, now one of the jobs of the moderator is unfortunately to bring an end to the proceedings We're just a little bit beyond time. So um to those of you who didn't get your turn I want to say i'm sorry. There was only so much time But let's take this mall. I want to say thank you to everyone for coming out and again Thank you to the panel for your time