 How to talk to more girls right? Very common question with young boys very very in the 2022 Yeah, very valid question very valid question And you know you obviously hear about people like Andrew Tate and these people that a lot of young kids are literally idolizing Like they love these people and you know like respect for these kids for liking these people But they don't realize like who they are kind of thing. They want to be like that person I was the same, you know when I was younger. I wanted to be like Vin Diesel Amir is a person that you idolize exactly exactly but obviously because you're only seeing social media aspect as a person You only see one side of that person and so, you know, you obviously hear these kids They might say things like like F being in a relationship, but there's no point But they're only saying that because I say ego kind of coming in Welcome to the Sevo show. We have Gareth Shanti Kuma Yes with us today. He is the head of founder of man-up WA So the blokes out there. This is the podcast for you this episode value-packed and Just get into it. Thanks for coming in. Thank you for having me really excited to be here and share what I have So, yeah, so how is everything? It's go well It's go well, you know, as you know, it's been a busy couple of weeks leading up to sort of today with Us getting ready for that the TEDx talk that we did I think just in general, it's been a busy period for me because we have a lot of events usually around this time of the year So I think since last weekend I'm finally Relaxing in a bit and what relaxing means is essentially not having an event every weekend So very excited to just kind of calm down focus a bit of work focus on getting ready for next year as well That's sort of like resetting some strategy and some goals. So, yeah Yeah, and you're and your work you say you're getting into Events is that part of your work or is it just like being you being me? It's a bit of both So like recently the reason why we had big events coming up was my family We we run a charity that's focused of helping people in Sri Lanka. So we have like an annual cocktail gala So that was what we had last Saturday. Thanks for the invite Sorry about that But yeah, it went well so it's like the big thing we do every year So everything kind of leads up to it takes a few months to plan it. My sister does most of the planning I'm just there on the night to show my face and speak a little bit But otherwise, yeah, it's been busy with even with man up the work that we do there We tend to have all our main events around this October time We recently had a quiz night where that's that again is our annual fundraiser Where we try to raise money for our foundation itself. That's more of like a fun vibe Like it's not too serious at event But it's it's difficult getting it already getting everybody to come around getting the sponsors things like that. So Yeah, a bit of both bit of me bit of work as well. So mmm. It's a lot of work. Yeah. Yeah, kiss me. Is he enjoying it? Yeah, I would say so so, you know, obviously my main sort of work right now is I'm a personal trainer I work through Revo fitness And I love it honestly like I actually picked it up as a bit of a side job to allow Flexibility to focus on man up because obviously as a PT you actually control your hours And so I was like, let me pick this up on the side So I can focus on man up, but as I started diving into it It picked up, you know, and I also kind of realized it's so much more than just showing people how to use the gym But it's showing people how to fall in love with their bodies form better habits Build a relationship with themselves. So I think through that I kind of prioritized a bit more this year And it got to a level where I didn't expect it to be I started exactly a year ago And it's sort of at a level now where it's self-sustaining. It's going well And the cool thing is because it's completely my own thing I can really be flexible to allow myself to still be available for man up, but with man up I've got a whole team. So it's not just me. I've got about 10 boys that Well voluntary working in this organization. I think everyone's driven by the passion to be there Because I think all of us have had some sort of experience around our own mental health Around this understanding of what it means to be a man So we're kind of coming together to inspire the next generation of high school kids to grow up into healthier men to maybe Not do the same mistakes that we did, you know, and I'm sure you've been there as well So it's busy, but I would say I'm very fulfilled in a sense. I'm still trying to get to level where You know doing the kind of holistic work around fitness and mindset is sort of my full-time career I still work for my dad at McDonald's as well. So yeah, so I work one shift a week So actually after this I'll be heading over there Friday nights and Saturday mornings sometimes Well the drive-thru kind of everything so I was a shift manager But now I sort of train managers to be better managers Yeah, and that's because sort of those were my skills lines kind of in that coaching aspect So I still work with him and it's a good gig like I do have a lot of flexibility around that as well and I guess, you know working for my dad is sort of this idea of like I want to help him out as well as much as I can whilst I'm still here So yeah, I guess sustaining three sort of jobs right now Keep me busy, but because I've kind of formed the passions into the job. It doesn't really feel like I'm working as much So, yeah, what did you mean by whilst just do here? Oh while some while some still sort of Working through with like Mackers. I mean because obviously I'm thinking of you know moving moving different cities things like that So whilst I'm in Perth and I'm building this foundation for man up for my other sort of careers. I'm gonna definitely Keep working at Mackers just to help him out. Yeah, so you have three different things you do. She's amazing Yeah, helping your dad and he has how many restaurants? I'm about to have seven so six of the moment Yeah, yeah six restaurants, and I met the guy. Yes Mindari yeah guy. Yep. I sort of content with him. I haven't posted. Yeah, I'm just I'm just timing it Yeah, and yeah really really intelligent really well-spoken man and you know Apple doesn't fall far from the tree Maybe better looking But if you could drop as part of my TEDx talk if you could drop everything but keep one thing What would it be man up? Why haven't you done that yet? I Think at the moment the reason why I haven't is again The fear of taking that risk right because right now man up provides me with no income at all Right now it's driven by Not just me as well because I know that if I if it was just me a different story But the fact that I've got a whole team around it I'm most of like the co-founder so someone else who's got just as much input as I do So I think the reason why I haven't completely let it go is well obviously security is one thing I think the second thing is although I love the work It's still a vehicle for sort of where I want to end up if that makes sense because I think I want to Similar to what I talked about in the TEDx talk. I think I want to share my vulnerability You know I mean find a way to allow people to Step into that version of themselves that will help them become the best version of themselves So that might look like coaching it might look like one-on-one type work It might look like creating programs creating companies like man up and just doing more of them I get really bored with the day-to-day stuff like sending emails Going on networking events with people that aren't there for passion And that's been tough with man up like I'm lucky that I don't have to do that I get my voice to do that kind of stuff and I just show my face and speak So I think in terms of the actual job itself if I did man up. I'll be quite bored in that sense I like the aspect that I get to do a lot of things at once But I guess eventually, you know, like like I said with this PT stuff I want to sort of see how I can get to the next level where potentially I can go into more like coaching rather than just physical But more mindset habits It's helping younger people as well But this year I kind of gave myself a year to just Get it out there. You know me because where I was a year ago completely different place What do you think changed that I think it was Events happening this year to make me realize that we've only got one life And if I don't go all in as you said if I don't go all in I'm lost, you know, and so I Big change came around like my use of social media as well I used to really care what people thought about me and I guess a part of me still does But I used to not post our content online Because I think there was that fear of like what are my old friends gonna think about me or people that I went to school with Because I think in Australia as well There's this huge thing around like tall poppy syndrome, you know Like when you're successful or when you try things differently, they'll try cut you down And even when I you know became a PT it was almost a disguise to post content online And I started posting fitness content But I also started posting content where I would speak about things to do with mindset and emotions And at the start, you know, I definitely had people messaging me saying What qualification do you have to speak about these things? And honestly the only qualification was my experience if that made sense And that kind of threw me off at the start a little bit But then as I posted it because PT was my business and I needed clients I got clients through online. Yeah, and so when I realized that there was like an actual tangible benefit like I was getting clients Posting became a part of my job, you know So it was like an excuse for me to keep posting more stuff because I'm a PT That's how I get my business done But eventually I don't want to be doing it just for that reason and so, you know Like I said, I started PT a year ago within a year. I've got like, you know, 30 clients sort of locked in Which is honestly like something I couldn't even thought of doing, you know When I first started it was quite a scary thing And I think the main element was just like not caring what others thought about me. That's changed a lot on social media Yeah, so you still talk to those school friends or those older friends Yeah, I mean only the good ones, you know, the ones that don't matter anymore. They'll unfollow me or good You know, there's nothing lurking in the background probably. Yeah, I have a few of those. Yeah, I have I have mates that I hadn't talked to in years and they still look at my stories or I talk to them maybe from time to time maybe once every couple months. Yeah, and We would chat and there'd be something of an action coming out of that. Yeah for them Yeah, because I can see that they want to do what I want to do Yeah, I'm doing 100% but they don't take action And I'm like well, I can only lead the horse to water. Yep, and then I remember when I started tiktok Had people telling me like the students first. They're like sir, that's cringe. Yeah, and then two years later They're like sir, that's actually kind of really cool You know Clout chases. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, but the friends. It's a really interesting part. They say to me. That's cringe, man That's like, what are you doing? Hmm? And now You know, I've got my little studio thing. I'm trying it out. See what happens. I've got a big following I'm working with big brands. I'm getting free shit. That's fun And I do what I love every day. Yep, and I'm making good money from it Those people don't talk to me anymore. Yeah, and I look at their lives and I look at what they post sometimes and They post Negative things complaining. Hmm about the job and I'm saying, you know what, you know, it's actually cringe Working the nine to five and not not liking it. Yeah, that's cringe. That's cringe. Yeah, and that's where I start to Separate myself just naturally. Yeah, if someone wants to reach out and hang out Yeah, let's do it. Yeah, but now I'm getting to that point where it's like What's the agenda? What do you want to come out of this? Right? What, you know, do you want something? Just just let me know. Just don't beat around the bush. Don't bullshit Yep. Oh, it's just a general catch up. I'm like, okay You find yourself like generally catching up with someone these days is far less and it's more of like a Business thing or you're talking about ideas more than anything I think so, but I feel I find a challenge with that is I feel a lot of people my age It's on 24. Yeah, everyone's kind of now only entering that nine to five Lifestyle and already, you know, within a lot of my clients I train I can see how everything they've been told was like a lie around that kind of lifestyle They don't like it. If thought that once they get the job, they'll be all good So they're kind of only having that realization which I sort of had maybe four years ago now So my catch ups are still very one-dimensional in a sense, but I'm trying to Get into an environment where I can meet people like that and usually they're my sister's friends Or they're a bit older than me and yet those conversations are they're crazy because you know You go into it and you feel energized afterwards There are people out there that value the same things as you and it's exciting because it gives me hope, you know I think or Perth. There's nothing to do here But there actually is a community if you open your eyes to it and so I feel like I'm Entering it if that makes sense. But yeah, welcome. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you So going back to at 24 what you know now and how you speak. Mm-hmm. I'm I'm envious 31 and I figured this stuff out Well started to figure it out. You never perfect exactly probably three years ago And the most important question I ask myself every day is what am I doing today to buy my time back? Hmm. It's a selfish question, right for myself. Yeah, and that's selfish because if I'm financially free mm-hmm Which means that I have Residual income paying for my basic costs of living I Can do whatever I want. Yep, or I could work towards whatever I want Without over leveraging overextending myself And then these people you see you talk about that enter the nine to five and they got lied to yep And this this will segue into the man up. Yeah, for sure They get into the nine to five and they're like cool. I've got a job. Yeah, I got a I got an income what next yeah What next mm-hmm, and then I talk about self-awareness Financial freedom or financial fitness. Yep first financial freedom comes later. Mm-hmm, and then Pivoting the art of pivoting. Yeah pivoting to be able to do whatever you want. Yeah All three have to kind of work together. Mm-hmm. Some argue that Find the finance part isn't there. Yeah, but my argument is What if you don't want to do something anymore you come to that crossroad, right? Yeah Yeah, I see a lot of early 20s people come to that crossroad and And it's after something like studying at uni. It's after getting a permanent job. It's after signing a contract It's after also over leverage overextending their mortgage. Yeah first homebuyers mortgage. Yeah, they're stuck Yeah, soon after they realize so I got a job. I've got a wife. I got kids Sometimes it's early 20s and then and I'm saying a lot of them the met this isn't this is an observation This isn't generalization. This is just observation. You can call it both, but The men especially in Fife. Oh mm-hmm early early 20s. Mm-hmm. They get given a six-figure salary And they go through all of that they check all the life boxes really quickly because they're in a rush for some reason Yeah, well, that's what we've been told to do right and then yeah, and then in mid 20s Cook going towards their 30s They hate their lives. Mm-hmm. They get they they're stressed. They have anxiety. They get depression and then What what's worse after that, right exactly So how how have you positioned yourself to help those people with man up? Mm-hmm for sure for sure I think a key to everything you said is sort of having that sense of fulfillment, right purpose And with the nine of five because that's kind of what we've been told to do It's a very external motivation like get the job to get the house to get the wife whatever it might be But I think it's rare that people often stop today to just think about like who am I and what do I want to? Provide to this earth and how do I want to live and they usually only had those questions come about When it's a bit too late not too late, but it's their order They've wasted some years where they could have been doing that stuff So with with man up and you know the reason why man up even started was sort of me having that realization Earlier on though, you know, it was the realization of who the hell am I right now because It was at my lowest point when like my girlfriend broke up with me when I had no idea where I wanted to go as a career I would get really angry and bottle things in and when it all exploded I was sort of left at that rock bottom. I would say where I was just chilling But I had no idea who I was yeah and What really got me out of that hole was obviously supportive people around me, which is really important But it was self like development on myself, you know, like figuring out what is my value in this earth? Like what do I want to sort of give back? How do I want to experience it because often it's rare that people just stop to ask themselves questions Yeah, and so when I did that I really came to like six months later after all this You know this this whole boiling point happened I was sort of at a stage where although I had nothing on the outside on the inside I had a clear sort of vision and trajectory of where I wanted to go and and what I wanted to inspire Leaving this earth and so I think from there everything changed and from there my self-worth became really important I started prioritizing my own boundaries the things that make me feel happy feel alive I started taking care of my my physical so going to the gym eating well And again, I kept on hanging around the correct people people with the same dreams and goals and people that wanted to grow And I think you know you heard that quote It's like the five people you surround yourself with is who you end up becoming and it's so true because it's not the people You're closest to it's people you spend the most time with and sometimes often where around people because of work So we're naturally gonna get their energy, right? So with man up We run three separate workshops to the boys In an effort to sort of give them the skills or maybe plant some seeds in their head So that when they do get older and challenges happen, they know what to do, right? so our three sort of workshop follows male culture and that's helping young men understand that to be a man is Not about Being this traditional masculine guy all the time It's about flowing in and out of your own understanding of masculinity Because that pressure is huge right the pressure to get a job be strong all the time Get lots of women and if you don't then you're less of a man The thoughts that went through my mind that really left me feeling worthless. So we try to instill with them. How can they? Become a whole human being first and foremost and then maybe dive into more masculine traits or whatever it might be We then talk about Relationships and with that as well we talk about how they can prioritize a relationship with themselves Like what is the most important relationship? It's when you have with yourself once they know what their boundaries are and they're non-negotiables in life They'll be shorter whoever they surround themselves with won't affect that yeah Because very easy for young men especially to get into romantic situations where they completely let themselves go To be there and be everything to this this person, right? And that's when we start to go down those dark rabbit holes of the mental health is when we Sacrifice our own worth for someone else, but if you can fill your own cup you can give from the overflow That's what I would say right and the third one we talk about is male mental health coping And that's how we equip the boys with sort of skills Or better ways of dealing with the natural emotions of life You can't stop being sad, but you can learn to go to the gym or punching a instead of punching a wall, right? Healthier coping mechanisms. We can teach the boys to talk to a mate Instead of keeping it all in here and that leading to something worse And so I think you know right now we're aimed at high school boys because we're a little bit older than them We're caught sort of like their older brothers if that makes sense and we shared with them our experiences In an effort to inspire them and I know that it works because I have these kids following me on Instagram And after the session they'll say thank you so much for opening my mind and allowing me to have these conversations And obviously could be quite a new organization. We don't know if these boys are gonna grow into healthy men We don't know but the fact that we changed their mindset in that moment We know that it's sort of working if that makes sense. Yeah, I really hope that I really see it going forward further and You know the hardest part about it is it's a passion of yours and I see that You know monetizing it could potentially bring it down exactly because and this is a reality, right? No, I want to invest in that. Yeah. Yeah, which which is should be the complete opposite Everybody should be investing in it. It's like it's our future. Yeah, like we invest in education And that's also another rabbit hole that can be gone down but The mental health part or or even the pre mental health before it gets gets to that spot. Yep What you're doing that needs to be really looked at because then the health care system gets a bit of a you know cushion hundred percent. Yeah, and And that's the thing I noticed about the world there's a lot of problems and They're throwing money at the problem. They're not throwing money at a solution Or a prevention, but we can go into the dark rabbit hole around that as well. You know, you know, yeah for sure and and You know apart Yes, once it happens it sucks And you got to deal with it Hmm, but isn't it so much easier if you avoid it in the first place through education through Systems and programs workshops It's it's so important to to think about that and you know these things that we're doing We have to juggle other things in our in ourselves. Yeah, we also have to get through it first, you know I don't I don't really think I've ever been in a super dark place And people would hear that and go, okay, what do you know then? But I feel like I was instilled with confidence and and self that self-awareness and and my mom's always telling me like Don't worry about the bullies. Who are they? You know, you're never gonna see them again Yep, they're not gonna be relevant to you. Yeah, and if they are then Later on then they either one which are not gonna allow that to happen or They Changed for the better. Hmm. And that's true. Mm-hmm. That's been true and My resilience from my mother's teachings has been very very fortunate. Yep coming from a Russian background A lot of my Russian friends family. Yeah, there's so much more resilience, right? We would hang out and it would just be a completely different vibe. Mm-hmm. Ethnics in general Yeah, sure. I hung out with ethnic in general. You're Sri Lankan. Yes. Yes You know, it's there's another pattern. I'm seeing here. Yes, the ethnic people that come in the immigrants They have more chill They have more perspective. They have more of that understanding of what what the alternative is 100% I would be somewhere Probably crossing the borders of Ukraine right now if I stayed in Russia. Mm-hmm. You know Luckily I was in Kyrgyzstan because it was a different country by then but who knows. Yep, and then now I'm looking at here, right? Chillin hanging out and I'm hearing people complain about things that I don't even have to do it with themselves Yeah, I can't yet for example. Yeah, it's going hard on Kanye making memes and shit. Some of them are funny Yeah, but you gotta just like How's your life going exactly? Yeah, you know, yeah, do you bring value to somebody else? Do you bring value to yourself? so You know, I I really wish that people can look in deeper into themselves and go, right What am I doing here? Am I happy? Yeah, my loving what I'm doing and Really wish the higher up people then in the political world Yeah One helping the education system improve. Yeah, which is something that's seriously needed to be done there. Yeah Yeah, and yeah, the mental health system or the health system in general Prevention is so much better than a cure 100%. Yeah. Yeah for sure Well, the recently they've made like consent education the huge, you know, like focus for next year going into schools Which is really cool because that's what we are trying to preach So I guess it does work, but it just takes time, you know And often it does take something going wrong in your life for you to realize I need to make a difference Preventative stuff is hard. Yeah, and hopefully you have the right people in that time That help you through it. Yeah, because if there's not you can go into all sorts Hmm, and we're we're seeing more and more everyone's just doing their own thing and not having That family to help support them. Yeah, I'm back to the ethnics. Yeah, they actually do have the family to support them It's true. Hmm, but I'm seeing the The How do I call them like the the third fourth fifth generation Australians? Yeah, I'm seeing less of that. Hmm, right and I'm thinking what the hell but then that bleeds into the immigrants the immigrants become first-gen second-gen third-gen Australians as well and this is the same thing around the world. Hmm more so in the Western countries. Yep Yep, definitely and then you see the Sudanese in their country. They're having many children and They're their life Everything that's happening in their world is far less greater than ours. Yeah, they're more happy. Hmm. What is that? perspective, yeah, yeah, so so man And is there is there opportunity for you to really Get something where you can go all in on it and really grow it Yeah, I think there is for sure like like I said the government is really getting around us as an organization I think what we need help with is really just like Structuralizing things because none of us are business people in the sense, right? We just had a passion to make an impact But now it's gone to a point where we need to actually figure out to pay someone We need like a lawyer to help us with this and that so I think You know when we can get help around that then we can really go all in in the sense of like how can we Make this like a job for someone or a career for someone and keep it going But yeah, I think what I've learned is because right now we're all voluntary It's tough, but we're kind of in the cycle of like because we're voluntary. It's taken longer But but if we just had like, you know position a paid position for example, we might be able to fast forward that a bit Yeah But like I said The fact that we've grown so much in just two years is it's proof that we are doing quite a bit right now Next year, we've got huge plans as well like a huge kind of change in in leadership We're gonna get a board organized so we can actually keep it going for the future And yeah, sort of see how we go because finally we've got this backing from the government now Which almost ensures longevity for the next three years. Hey, and that's really exciting. Yeah, so I Think it's just sort of to see where it goes and you know, you know when you start anything It's gonna be real shaky. Yeah, but I can sort of see it Settling a little bit not completely because again a business can just fail like that if you neglect it But the fact that we've gone two and a half years really strong and we're getting stronger It's proof that I think as long as we keep doing what we're doing Eventually we need to be you know, and and I'm huge on like not rushing things like If as long as I'm having fun right now and impacting people in a good way I know that it would just happen the way it needs So the universe always sort of makes that happen, you know When you go into it without that anxiety because sometimes I get really caught on in like that controlling mode I'm trying to control every outcome and whenever I try to do that. It always sort of leads to me feeling anxious Therefore not being able to give my best self in that situation. So Allowing it to sort of just go at the pace it needs to Is really helpful as well. What's been the most biggest success for man up so far? No, it's too many man. Um something just comes to mind. Yeah, so make you smile every time you think about it Okay, okay, it's a bit sentimental It's I think it's just seeing the community that we formed because like I said when we started this it was to help high school kids Right, but the way that we operate is we have a whole database of volunteers and where the guys that go into the school to speak to The kids we don't just do like it's big workshop where there's like a whiteboard and one person talking It's ten of us will go in and split the cohort of a hundred kids into groups of ten And we each share own stories and have the and run the workshop, right and through that We have done like rural trips where we'll take 16 volunteers 12 volunteers and we'll travel WA giving workshops to schools that don't really have this opportunity, right? So already we've done about seven trips You know we've gone to Bumbary a few times and cover the schools in that Southwest. We've done Esperance. We've done Katanning we're about to do Esperance soon as well and the really Yeah, yeah, and they're really Amazing thing about this rural trips is that by daytime, you know We're speaking to the kids and inspiring these kids and also these kids are way more grateful than kids in Perth for some reason I think because they just don't have people coming outside often. Yeah, that's that again that perspective exactly I went I lived overseas born overseas and I lived in Calguli. Yeah, so I've got the the country element Yeah, and the city element all in one overseas element for sure Go and obviously makes you more of a whole human being. Yeah, and so yeah, we do the strips so by daytime we're talking to the boys, but in the evening we get the opportunity to really bond with each other and I think like I said growing up as a young man now It's very difficult like what does it mean to be a man because you see so much things happening Where it's easy for men to feel guilty for just being a man But we kind of create this space where we can be vulnerable with each other Yeah, then we can also chat some shit, you know Like we can be a healthy human being and we're like role-modeling it to each other So I think as man up grows we're creating this whole new community of what it means to be like a healthy young man I never had that role model growing up. You know what I mean? Like obviously you've had your dad's and stuff like that But there was never like on the TV. You don't really see what it means to be like a healthy man You only see this macho aggressive man over produced over produced. Yeah, but at the same time this man's like You know depressed angry all that kind of stuff. So I think the community and there was one trip where went Took the boys like it was only five of us as a small trip And there was a night where we finished all the schools. It was just us chilling and we went to like the pub just to enjoy and we came back home and It was a really nice moment where these four young men who are younger than me We're just talking about like their darkest sort of moments So like things would break ups and all that kind of stuff happening and I remember just sitting there reflecting like wow like This is happening right now. Like there's a space where these boys can just chat They were like strangers before and now they type talking about their deepest darkest, you know Secrets and problems and at the end of it we become really close. So that's why the community is really tight now It's really small still but it's so nice to see that Man up has created this like extra by-product not just for the students, but for these volunteers That's amazing. And that's something that's definitely worth sharing more often hundred percent. Yeah, absolutely Yeah, and then with the kids What's something that you see common or what's something that you're asked? Most often by the kids by the kids in in the workshops. It's the most common question. Mmm. I Mean, it's a stupid question, but they're always like How to talk to more girls, right? Very common question with young boys very very in the 2022 Yeah, very valid question very valid question And you know you obviously hear about people like Andrew Tate and these people that a lot of young kids are literally idolizing like They love these people and you know like respect for these kids for like these people But they don't realize like who they are kind of thing. They want to be like that person I was the same, you know when I was younger. I wanted to be like Vin Diesel So yeah, I mean something like that for you mirror as a person that you are like exactly exactly But obviously because you're only seeing social media aspect as a person you only see one side of that person and so You know, you obviously hear these kids They might say things like like F being in a relationship like there's no point But they're only saying that because I say ego kind of coming in is an attack And so when I talked to the boys, you know, they were telling me like how do you talk to girls? Whatever because this is something I had to learn as well because when I was younger I was really scared to talk to girls and then there was a point where you know watching all these idols I was like, how about I be a bit of a dick to get with girls, right? And it worked, you know, I mean I would go to the clubs or whatever act like I didn't care And sort of go against the man of values in a sense, right? And but it worked because I got all these these women, you know, there's a tension But as I've kind of grown even more now, I'm sort of realizing If I'm acting like that type of woman that I'm gonna attract is not gonna be who I actually want to be with and if I'm changing myself to To please someone else they can expect that version to me, but that's not who I am So I tell the boys, you know, obviously they're quite young, but I tell them right now It's it's a very immature age like don't expect that the girls that you're gonna be with right now The ones that you're gonna end up with the rest of your life, but the goal here is how can you Commit to being yourself and if someone likes you for you, then that's the goal, right? And you know, I tell them not to Take everything that they see on social media So like directly realize that there's a whole other side of the story to it And if there's a man who's a bit more Soft-hearted like be that man and then there will be a woman that will find that attractive But if you're more of a macho man be that man like you don't need to change yourself You don't need to try and catch every fish exactly exactly But you know because I see these guys are like I want to be like that I want to be like that A big role model for me actually with man up was um, there's this actor in America called Justin Baldoni And he runs a podcast actually he's called We are man enough I think and his whole thing was you know when he was an actor He was always cast as a very good-looking like shirtless guy And he thought that was who he was but then you know as he sort of realized that he was like actually For me being a man is so much more about being Compassionate being kind but still embodying those masculine traditional traits. You know what I mean? So for me, I was like, how can I sort of you know embody healthier masculinity Rather than just one sided one dimensional because the one dimensional Is what leads to the mental health problems later on and there was a study that was done It's called the man box study Which basically analyzed boys who were 15 to 30 And they asked him a series of questions which basically categorized them as being traditionally masculine Or non-traditionally masculine and they would ask the boy the men questions For example, like to be a man means you have to be strong Yeah To be a man means you need to be a boyfriend and the word was like you need to like you should To be a man you should get with lots of girls And so men who agreed with the statements like they agreed that a man has to be like that They were categorized as called inside the box thinkers and the men who didn't really agree. They're more holistic, I guess Were categorized as outside the box thinkers So that was part one of the study part two was when they got really interesting They looked at these men's just lives the quality of their life And what they found was men who were inside the box thinkers So the same men who believed that they had to be strong They had to get lots of women. They had to make lots of money These same men experienced significantly worse mental health outcomes Double the chances of suicidal thoughts seven times the amount of sexual violence against women And and seven times the amount of getting into actual physical fights with other men And you can see like where did this come from? It's because of the pressure To be someone they're actually not and so it comes out in some other way Which is a huge statistic to realize because young boys, they don't realize that they think to get lots of girls's respect You know to make lots of money is your respect and cool It is But then they don't realize that these same men are also struggling a lot in their lives And I don't think anyone wants to be like that, you know, no, it's a it's a double-edged sword And the you know, you could you call it a red flag. Yeah, maybe and yeah, I But I always say there's nothing wrong in having lots of money in and getting lots of girls But it's wrong when you put your worth into it and when you feel like you need to do it If you if you lose your integrity doing something To achieve a goal is it actually worth it? Exactly never never This is the most one of the most important things in life is your integrity And if you detach that with your tip from yourself Trying to achieve the things that you want Yep You realize most of the time those things are not what you need Yeah And then by the time you figure out what you do need your integrity is not there Yep, and you're pretty much starting again, which is fine. You know people start again all the time. Yep But they need to understand that because they feel like they they don't Then that's when real darkness happens. Oh for sure There you go back to the talking to girls thing. Yeah Yeah It's such a stigma right now, especially with um, you know Going up in a bar. Yep approaching someone fear of rejection Before he even happens it happens But then also not the fear of rejection, but fear of them being disgusted and and calling out something like Oh, you pervert or whatever. It's like that's not helpful either So there's a whole other side to this that also needs to be catered to and there are people, you know, women Organizing this for me, I remember my masculinity toxic masculinity call it toxic masculinity was At the peak Was when I was a footy player, right? huge alpha male egos toxic as far and And you know, I got into the you know how to talk to girls a bit better through them Yeah, I was looking at them like are they all getting girls? I was doing the same. It works. Yeah, it works. Yeah But I was not happy Yeah, not not was I happy around them or was I happy with The women that I was actually talking to that I thought oh cool They're like me, you know, yeah, and then they never work out. Yeah, never they never end up happening Yeah, and it's when you stop looking and just become yourself The real real things are 100 but also In the scheme of things, especially when you're younger and it's the same with you know escaping the rat race and getting a house and doing all that stuff You do it with the wrong person. You're stuffed. Yeah And you try to keep it you try to make it happen But you have a kid you have a couple of kids Yeah, and and it's just it's just so many ways to do it wrong And you know and then you learn afterwards. Yeah Then you feel like you've you've done a lot of your living And you you didn't set yourself up for for success from the beginning And again people have succeeded out of that. Of course they've gotten divorced They still they still raise their children well and they figured it out But there's so much out there that just goes horribly wrong in the wrong possible way And then what happens with the kids? Yeah, same thing repeat cycle continues And those are the kids are most likely you're most likely dealing with Um as a former school teacher, that's the pattern that I found The the kids are misbehaving I didn't I didn't Blame them no no way the parents were the The reason yeah the cycle but then it's because of their parents right exactly right and yeah, it was fascinating And you read about it But when you really identify it, you know, yeah, but then this is where the school system comes in Again observation the school system fails to adhere to understand that. Yeah There are some schools out there. I know brilliant Student student service. Yeah leaders that have done an amazing job With a few schools that I've been involved in right some other schools completely cooked it They try to get psychologists in they try to get counselors in And the whole quiet quitting is a thing in teaching that I care. Yeah, they're just there for the money So there's a whole network of shit that's going wrong. Yeah, and at the At the sacrifice of the kids and the cycle continues but the for me I got out of that cycle because I just had enough and that self-awareness flourished. Yeah, I didn't grow up with the dad Yeah, my stepdad the one that helped, you know help us migrate to australia He was there for a little bit. We bonded through footy And but after that it was just no connection Never called him my dad. Yeah called him by his first name And you know, he's a lot older than my mom. Yeah And you know things didn't work out and there was no bad blood But just there was no good blood either. I haven't I don't think about calling him at all And one day actually decided to right. I was like, you know what? It's been a few years. Yeah I'm a different person. Yeah, he might be a different person The older you get the harder it is to change. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Things were good Went to visit him. Yeah couldn't talk to him after 10 minutes. Really? Yeah But it's that detachment that I had from the beginning that didn't affect me at all. Yeah What about you? What about your you mentioned your relationship the failed one? Not disrespecting obviously the ex-girlfriend, but you're obviously not right for each other Yeah, what made you think you were when you first started dating her? Um, I think it was sort of not realizing Who I was in that sense, you know Because when we we went out we kind of went to high school together. I went to an old boy school, but we did a few classes together And it was sort of like right place right time. You know me like you're you're convenient. You're next to them often So you end up hanging out with them obviously Um, and so this was before I had even discovered who Gareth was I was just living the the right race of school, you know cycles in and out And so basically through the school finished we got into a relationship Because you know those feelings infatuation and the thing is right You will feel those feelings with heaps of people. Yeah, it's not just With the person that you're gonna end up with and so, you know, that's why often relationships at the start are really good because You're almost like Clouded by this this drug of dopamine right this that's coverage of body And so when that wears off and then you actually find out who the person is Um, or you've just had to realize that I'm not this person anymore And that's another thing we changed right over time Um, then you then you realize okay, it's very difficult to force a connection to work When we're on completely different trajectories Um, and I I really believe in like repairing relationships like that definitely can happen But both of you need to be on the same page. Um, and you know just like in our situation We were because we're 18 to 20 like that's so young You still figure out who you are. So obviously as we grew up we grew apart Yeah, it's very rare that people grow together very very Few people grow together. I think I remember one couple. I don't know if they're together or not anymore Yeah, but they were high school sweetheart. Yeah, and last time I checked that they were still together. I think they had kids Yeah, I was like damn. Yeah, good for you But hopefully they're staying true to themselves. That's a thing. That's a thing I was in a relationship for five years my longest relationship before now Wow, yeah for now currently my wife. She's she's takes the reins. Yeah, especially because she's my wife For my last relationship. It was the same thing. Yeah, we weren't we weren't the right people for one another I wanted to go one way. She wanted to go another. But she wanted me to go with her. Yeah And I wanted to be myself and I wasn't myself And it didn't take until my my friends said to me So if you're not the same person when she's around, you're more fun when she's not around And I took offense to that. Yeah, I was in defense mode for her. Of course. Yeah. Yeah Because I thought that's what men's needed to do But my definition of a man is like a real man Masculinity is someone that is confident in their own belief of what they want. Yeah, what they go for And with integrity. Yes with good intent But yeah, the the relationship never worked. It was it was always going to be a failure. Mm-hmm But those early 20s years 100 you're just like, oh, you got to make it, you know And then you you meet their family and their family is nice and you don't want to be the bad guy And and you may be the bad guy momentarily But if you if you don't do anything about it, you're the bad guy forever for yourself for sure And long story short, she ended up marrying someone Two or three years after we broke up. There you go. And I found my wife. Yeah, everybody wins. Yeah, exactly. I'm stoked and like You know, uh, and that's life but The problem is it's not like that right now. Oh, I know a lot of people And there's religion comes into it and there's pros and cons to religion As is everything else the christian religion christianity There's a lot of like, you know, the whole no no sex before marriage thing There's good things about that. But at the same time, there's no there's some not good things about that Yeah, I know And uh, are you are you sorry? No, no, no. Oh, it's kind of sad But like if you wait Until marriage you have that whole time to figure each other out You see patience in one another and all this stuff And that's an argument that they would definitely use. Oh for sure. But then afterwards you What if you don't connect this post nut clarity, bro? I'm gonna use that as a clip Yeah That's one big nut too. Yeah. Oh dear lord exactly No, I'm not I'm not religious at all But I respect the people that have that like whatever religion you're into Whatever your your faith is great. Yeah, don't preach it on to me though. Yeah, you can talk about it But respect me for my decision. Um, but yeah going back to the relationship thing That's one of the most important things In your early 20s to realize that you're not You're still young. Yeah, you don't know where you're gonna be and I and I I um I'm I look at relationships and businesses very similar, right? Early on and careers as well early on you're still taste testing What you want to do is a job. Yeah, you work at mac is your personal trainer You do all of the above at the same time You know Um, and I was a personal trainer and I've worked at hunger jacks. Yeah, there you go. I worked at bunnings I've worked at jesus for a while. Yeah, and you know not before long after that. I was like, no, thanks for the Food industry never again. Yeah that and I just outgrew the benches and how low they were True. There's a clip of me recently at one of the mcdonalds because I did the macapy day thing And I was like, yeah, I'll pretend I'm working man. The benches are so low Designed for the killer. It's fair enough for you It's um the business and relationships are very similar. Yep, right Yeah, you fall in love with it You you do it day to day and over time you start to resent it. Yep for sure and then you go, oh Do I enjoy the overall scheme of things enough to keep doing it? Same with the relationships with a choice to keep it going. Yeah, keep it healthy Yeah, and you need to realize that it is a choice because if you think that you shackled in Then You're going to just go south. Yeah continuously. Yeah, it's not helpful for anybody. It's not helpful for them You or god forbid you have kids And that happens all the time. You know like 50 percent of marriages end of divorce more than that. Yeah and We're and then the older folk The ones that oh my grandparents have been together since they were 16 because I had no other choice back then it was the thing right now it's like Bro, leave you leave your best life. We're we're animals We're meant to You know Have fun and enjoy ourselves and move on. We don't have to be sluts. Yeah. Yeah and Like but like the biggest flex and I've seen a lot of these masculine Instagram pages. I follow one. They're all about Tanning your balls and having a llama and shit. I like it. I like it eating liver and oh, yeah The king. Yeah. Yeah, yeah Not quite like that. But yeah, but this there's one common theme all the time is It's not a flex to sleep with as many women as possible It is such a flex to find the right one start a family with yeah, and you don't argue You don't fuck around Yeah, your team you build an empire together. Yeah, and you know if that happens very early on in your life That is such a flex. Yeah, that is a flex is that's fucking flex. That's the goal. Yeah, that is the goal Yeah, but in reality, it doesn't happen because you still haven't found yourself and the whole emotional maturity thing We're not emotionally mature until we're very Very much later in our 20s early 30s. Yeah and sexual maturity doesn't mature until later in our 30s as well Especially women too. Yeah, you know and but but where we're in it's such a rush And then all everything else unfolds after we've locked each other in and they were like, oh fuck FOMO FOMO FOMO and that's where cheating can happen because you're like, oh, I never got to do that when I was young I looked Myself away there And then you have regret. Yep, and then the temptation might even get you You know same with jobs you lock yourself in you get that mortgage and then all of a sudden you're like I really don't want to do this job anymore. The day-to-day sucks. Yeah, and you know, I had a Job in uh as a glassy like a window manufacturer in malaga, right when I was like 20 years old I remember rocking up. I was like, oh good the dopamine was hitting. I'm like, yes. I got a job Yeah, it's just they know I get six seven hundred dollars a week. How good's this? within two months I was getting up Barely making it to work with one minute to spare. Okay, because you're done. I was done But I needed money. Yeah, right So and like and that's why really relate relationships with business with work because the girls as well Different different times in the lives You know one girl's younger one girl's older. I'm older. I'm younger whatever. Yeah, but just it's so hard to Like it's so obvious now when you're older and you want to tell them You want to go bra? Relax. Yeah, chill. Don't don't you know if you love her you love her But make sure you you really get to know her Yep, or him or whatever and don't compromise yourself. Don't exactly. I remember I compromised so much In myself and I look at this in hindsight Back then I was blind. I was like Because of the drug it's a drug. It's good. Literally. This was good. This was good And I see it to others now and and This is my relationship. I'm in right now. I'm fucking stoked And I'm not just saying that, you know, I'm genuinely stoked. That's the goal genuinely stoked It's been five years now like fucking stoked. Yeah, but then I see others not that I'm like trying to compare or make myself feel even better But when when I see someone else arguing and arguing is not the worst thing But I'm just like Why are you when you saw yourselves out, you know And and like it's life's too short to be upset. Hmm. Well, that's the thing though I think you are in a healthy relationship because you figured yourself out. Yeah, they're on that path as well, right? Yeah, and not many people do that. No, and it's easy to project it onto someone else. I've done it I'm speaking from experience. Yeah, you know, yeah so and then yeah with business you're You're pushing different directions And you lock yourself in and then Man those golden handcuffs I'm so so lucky that I didn't get into that spot. Yeah, I was very close. Yeah, you know I was very close to finishing graduating uni And being with someone that had the whole life planned out Yep, life's not meant to be planned out. No opportunities come that tempt you to want to try something different in life And you know, I'm with my wife. I'm not saying if a better opportunity comes along than to say goodbye to her Yeah, you know, I've lived long enough and been in enough relationships and moments that my boxes are firm Yeah, my girls and boys say, oh Uh more girls nowadays. Oh, I'm so picky. I'm never gonna find someone good I can be picky. Don't be don't don't settle for anything less. Yeah. Yeah, you know be realistic Mm-hmm And you know, there's a whole thing about Perth. There's no one in Perth. I'm like, well, if I can move then Exactly. Yeah For sure. You know for sure. Um, and then with guys, they're all saying the same thing. Yeah, I've had many conversations in both Groups single girls single guys. I had a conversation with two girls the other the other week They're all they're in that one's 22 23 Another one's 25 the sick of men here and I'm like, yeah, but what are you looking for? Yeah What is it then we talked about it and I'm like, what are your things that you want in a guy? And there were they gave me some really interesting answers. I'm like, yeah, but is that realistic? Yeah. Yeah Are those the real values you want to look for but then I ask them how do the guys behave? and the guys behave like Animals like just I'm just like, are you serious? Is that how it is? Then when I talk to the guys, they're just like, oh girls just They're just bitches. I'm like, why are they bitches? How do you come to that conclusion? Yeah, you know, I come from a neutral like I'm swiss And and I'm like I'm married too like I know my shit And I'm genuinely stoked But yeah, when I hear the people like bigger about one another and I'm like, okay, yeah, let's break it down What do you want in life? Sure. Sure. I think now it's very hard because there's so much choice Like so much choice when it comes to a partner. So if you find someone who's 95 percent what you want You're like, oh, there's be someone that's 100 swipe left, you know, I mean And I think that's what's making it very hard for people to actually accept healthy relationships is because there's so much choice Literally, if you get upset download tinder, right? It's right there. I'm in my wife on tinder Well, there you go But in terms of like as a coping mechanism, a lot of people would jump to it, you know what I mean to like Validate validate exactly exactly that And I think that's that's huge. Yeah, that's a big thing that's stopping people from whenever there's a conflict to actually work Into it. It's we're f them. I'll just go find someone else. Yeah. Do you have a Misses in your life at the moment? Not at the moment. No, no. Yeah, unfortunately not. No, you're 24 though I'm young. So yeah, exactly like That's a good space to be single. Yeah And I'm not saying good space to be single and promiscuous That's a good space because you're still figuring yourself out And if you feel like you have figured yourself out then the right person will come up and I agree with that. Yeah. Yeah, exactly When I broke I broke up with my last partner I had a four month gap before I met my wife. There you go And I was on tinder the first time I was on tinder and I was You know, the whole ho phase was real. Yeah, I'm not gonna lie But it got exhausting so quickly. Yep, and I'm not saying like what a champ I am and all that shit I was like Oh, this isn't me. Yep, and I was like, oh I was very happy to say that. I was like, I don't think I need to be You know seeing multiple women. Yeah at once. I feel I'm disrespecting them You know one at a time or one For now, you know My attention needs to be all in one. Yeah, and then I was like, you know what stuff it no more tinder Yeah, I'm on tinder. I'm not going to do the validation thing. I'm not going to get you know Um What the next greatest thing? But I was like, okay one more for bands and then that's what you found out. That's what happened Did you let go of that desperation? Exactly literally the same fucking day. Yeah, I I shit you not Scroll down. I was like, oh Oh She's tall and I was like, oh god And then I was like, oh, I don't know and she had black hair and I was like, that's your type Me? Yeah. Anyway hit her up Hit it off. Yep, and then after that it was again Like I'm not like a fan of ghosting you got to be real But it was just like a end of season clear the bench Sort of moment for everyone else for everyone else. Yeah, it was like you know And it was so cool But at the same time I felt so guilty. Yeah, because I had built up some sort of not like relationship full on it was it was Like a short period of time and They don't hold it against me. I mean they probably did back then But that's where I found myself and it was beautiful and then And then Sabine told her stories about it. She's just like I would But then I was it I was I was focused. I was like, it's like I found my purpose. Yeah, right Yeah, and then with with the business with the career side of things right now I'm doing multiple things. Yeah as you are too. Yeah I can't wait to find my Sabine in business for sure, you know because then you're like, oh fuck I don't like I don't give a shit about anything else. Yeah, you know I'm enjoying I'm enjoying the grind. I'm enjoying the trenches. I'm enjoying all of this And right now I'm trying to figure out what's next. Yeah, or which one do I choose? The same as you but you kind of have a trajectory of where you want to go, right? Yeah But at the same time like People fall out of love. Yeah And I don't like talking about this much because the theory is true. Yeah for anybody You never know But with her it's like Without doubt. Yeah, right. Yeah But life happens. Hmm And we've even talked about it life happens. Yeah We have kids We're going to be civil If fucking whatever for some reason we cannot figure out what it is But you mentioned before like going into different like growing together. Is he growing apart? Yeah You shouldn't hate each other for that on a way. You have to communicate though Yep, and you have to be civil you have to be friends And the worst thing you can do is if you grow apart One. Yeah tries to go. Yeah, they're not going to be happy So that's where you got to reassess communicate and things like that like right now we are Really unbalanced. Yeah in our relationship. Yeah, and we're not at diastrates or anything She's a student Doing her thing and I'm building my My empire. Yeah, she doesn't want to be part of the business empire She wants she wants to hear about it. She's interested. Yeah as do I want to hear about her studies and what she wants to do And right now we're at a severe imbalance, right because we need to hustle we need to eat shit And then afterwards we're going to come in and it's going to be such a better balance. Yeah Now I thought about it so many times. I'm like, is it going to be a good balance? Is it? I'm looking at I'm like, yeah, yeah, I can see it. I can see it good The biggest factor about balance is finance Yeah, that's where that big one comes in if you have money problems from the beginning And you don't have that set expectations of who who can buy what whatever if you have a treasure on your fucking You know, you've got to be responsible with money for sure But you need your own bank account Their own bank account and then a together bank account. Yeah, that's one bonus tip for everybody Yeah, I can do that shit straight away figure that shit out and if she spends money her money on dumb shit Or if he spends money on the absolute dumbest thing It's not your problem. Exactly. It's their money. Exactly that you get that started. Yeah. Yeah, so there's my Relationship advice. I fully agree with that and like you said the whole growing apart thing Like so my parents actually divorced as well. Yeah, um, and they kind of stayed together until I was older But even when they sort of split it I was very lucky that I saw a role model of a healthy breakup in a sense because Right now like our parents my parents are very amicable like they so We'll go to our birthdays and hang out cook each other dinner and stuff like that Um, and I remember speaking to my dad once and obviously they were shattered when it happened They were very sad upset. I've never seen my dad like cry like that before But you know, he reflected on he was like, do you think that I Thought I was going to get divorced when we were getting married And I was like probably not she's he's of course not but we grew apart And that was something that kind of hit me because it made me realize that maybe relationships aren't always meant to be forever You know They're in your life for a reason for a season however long that might be because Even with your wife, even if you end up with her forever one of you's going to die before the other, right? And so again, you can look at that like a really depressing kind of point of view Where you can look at that as that this person has been there by my side for a specific reason You know, I mean And that's important and that's why even because I have two ex-girlfriends I look at both of them with very like a lot of respect and a lot of love still You know, I mean like I don't want to be with them love But it's love that this person made me who I am today And if it wasn't for the time that we had the arguments that we might have had I wouldn't be the person I'm today, you know, I mean and that's crazy It's because I was I really fantasized relationships like I want to find my wife and It's going to change my life and be there forever And you know me like really romantic and that's because of society when it's done, right? We watched we grow up watching Disney shows We what we grow up thinking that love is meant to be this feeling But I think love is actually a choice And and we need to commit to it every single day and sometimes that choice might be to grow apart That's too love. That's unconditional love. It's loving them regardless of who they are where they are Whatever they're doing You just love them for the person and I think that's that's the goal as well, you know, yeah, absolutely Yeah, for sure. Yeah, absolutely. So if you had a whole bunch of kids in front of you Then you've given them so much value today. Yeah, what's the one thing that you repeat to them over and over? What's the one big piece of advice you give to them if they were never to find you, okay? It would probably be To take time to figure out who they are every day when you wake up ask the question Who am I and whatever answer comes to your mind do what you need to do To align that image with yourself Love that love that. So how do we get around with man up WA and how do we sponsor you for sure? So obviously, um, well our instagram handle is man underscore up underscore WA you can sort of follow our journey through there But obviously if you want to get more involved, you can always send us an email with team at man up WA dot org dot au Um, all of us are really keen to like get help and and meet people as well Because we're all young. I'm the oldest in the whole organization. So it's really lovely when we have, you know Government support or people with experience are willing to kind of jump in and help us We're always willing to take that on so that'll be the best way you guys can help us is just start a conversation Nice. Thank you. Yeah. Thanks for coming in. Oh, thank you for having me I learned a lot from you just sitting here listening to the wisdom. So For sure. And thank you for listening and watching The the video side of things if you have any questions for gareth, there is a questions box on the spotify Section if you're not on spotify, you're on the itunes or the podcast app Then I hit up myself or or gareth and ask away And he's he and I always keen for questions life advice or just just a chat Um come in with some purpose. Don't just say hi Um, if you have something to ask make sure it's something of you know value to you Um that you can take something out, but yeah until next time gareth. It's been a pleasure. Thank you as always. Good. Thanks