 Coming up on D T N S the thinking continues to evolve about Apple's child protection schemes Amazon merchants that will pay you to remove a negative review. What's that going to incentivize you to do? And is Apple TV useless? D T N S starts now. This is the Daily Tech News for Monday August 9th 2021 in Los Angeles. I'm Tom Merritt and from Studio Redwood. I'm Sarah Lane and I'm the show's producer Roger chain joining us writer, podcaster Chris Mancini from White Cat Entertainment. Welcome back to the show, Chris. Great to be here. Thanks for having me. We were just all discussing our experiences with dinner theater on Good Day Internet. If you'd like to solve that mystery, get the show get the wider show become a member patreon.com slash D T N S. There you can join our top patrons such as Dustin Campbell, Tim deputy and Brandon Brooks. Let's start with a few tech things you should know. Apple updated its FAQ stating that it's newly announced client side scanning technology coming to iOS and Mac OS is limited to child sexual abuse material stored in iCloud and quote, we will not accede to any government's request to expand it and quote, the company said that the image hashes will scan it will scan for come from the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children or NCM and other child safety organizations with the same listed maintained overall devices to prevent individual targeting. Tesla now lists its forthcoming cyber truck shipping in 2022 originally announced as shipping this year CEO Elon Musk had previously said on an earnings call in January that the company would only be able to ship cyber trucks in 2021 and quote, if we got lucky, which I guess they did not. The financial time sources say bite dance plans to go public on the Hong Kong stock exchange by early next year. The company reported company reported has nearly 1.9 billion monthly active users across its platforms and in a funding round last year was valued at $180 billion. As we mentioned last week, some investors have speculated that the ongoing Chinese tech crackdown might lead to more IPO listings on the Hong Kong exchange. Even it is was down 3.8% on the year last week. Microsoft updated the Xbox app on Windows to include its X Cloud game streaming service currently available to Xbox insiders in 22 countries. The app also now supports streaming games from a local Xbox and in other gaming news, Microsoft's going to stream a Gamescom Xbox event August 24th at 1pm Eastern promising new looks at upcoming games that have been previously announced. The stream comes the day before the Gamescom opening night live showcase August 25th. Valve Steam Deck designer Greg Kummer confirmed that the company is working on bringing Windows 11 support to the device. The company is currently working with AMD to make sure trusted platform module is supported at the BIOS level for the OS. Alright, let's talk a little more about Facebook letting you leave. Sort of, yeah. Facebook's transfer your information tool lets you export some data for use by other services, mostly photos. That's something that people could have taken advantage of before now. But Facebook just updated it with the ability to export to different services simultaneously and also filter some export so it's not an all or nothing thing. So in addition to photos, the tool now supports the Facebook's event data type to support to export event listings to Google Calendar. Okay, and photo bucket has been added to the list of places that you can export your photos. Facebook already supports exporting images to Google Photos to Dropbox to Blogger and to WordPress. The UI also got a tweak in an effort to make it easier to use. Yeah, I like that they're expanding beyond just photos here. But Facebook events feels like it's more from what I can tell to be an event based thing where someone invites you to something not a calendar replacement. So I'm not sure how useful it is to export your previous events to Google Calendar unless you keep doing it on an ongoing basis. Adding photo bucket seems to make sense. It's like a breadcrumb trail type thing. I participated in a Facebook event. It was on my calendar at some point. It's nice to have it. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's better than nothing. Yeah, I think the photo stuff is more interesting. You know, you still might say, well, Facebook didn't add anything to the list of a place that I would want to export my photos to. But it is seeming to be a bigger effort to say, yes, you can transfer your data elsewhere. Chris, do you feel freer? Well, I think the photos is a big deal because if there's one thing you would want to take with you, it would be that. And I feel like somebody actually probably said that in a development meeting, Sarah, like, well, it's better than nothing. Like when they were trying to figure out the other functionality, like, well, the calendar, we got to give them something. It does seem like a little bit of like a, yeah, a little bit of a drip, like, well, they won't complain for another year. Yeah, if we just do a little bit at a time and see, see, look what we're giving you. And don't leave. Don't leave. So I think. Yeah, we'll let you leave. So don't. In the end, I know that Facebook is probably doing this because they have to. But it's a good thing that they're doing it. And the more that they participate in the wider data transportation efforts that are out there across the platform, the better it is for all of us. So whatever the motivation, I'm glad to see them continuing to develop it. And hopefully it gets even more expensive. Yeah, I mean, Facebook was all about sharing your data. They just didn't want you to do it. So that's now catching up. Yeah. Why do you want to take your own? To be clear, to people who don't realize you can export all your Facebook data to yourself. This this is an addition of like, we'll make it easy, rather than download all your photos to your hard drive and then upload them again, you'll be able to go straight to photo bucket. The way you can now go straight to Google photos, Dropbox, Blogger and WordPress. So you already can can pull out all your information. You've been able to do that for a long time. This is going beyond that and saying, let's make it easy. If you want to switch over to someplace else, which if you're like, why blogger and WordPress, that's because a lot of people treat a Facebook like a blog. And if they decide they want to switch to WordPress, this lets them pull over their posts and photos and things like that. And go back to the 90s. Hey, we're on WordPress now. You be careful. The latest beta for Valve's Steam VR, which is version 1.19.6, adds support for floating app windows inside VR games. So you could have Discord or Twitch or even Netflix open in front of you while you're playing a VR game. It could just be floating there in the side. I could see Discord being especially useful in some games for that. The windows are view only so you can just monitor your chat, but you can interact with them in the Steam VR menu. You just have to pop down and open it up. Previously in Steam VR, you could dock a window to your controller so you could do quick glances and pull it up, but they didn't float persistently. So that's the big change here is you can choose to do either one. So as somebody who I play certain VR games and they're very intense, this is not a thing that I could make much use of. I would get lower scores. When you're dancing in Supernatural, you wouldn't want to be also watching a Netflix movie? I really wouldn't. No. I mean, sure, I'd love to try, but it would only make my score worse. Facebook for Oculus recently allowed the implementation of, if you'd link your Facebook Messenger account and give it the right permissions, you could get, you Tom could message me and I would be in my VR experience and say something to me and I was like, I mean, I guess I'll let it do that. I don't talk to that many people on Facebook Messenger. It might be kind of fun just to see how it feels. One person did that to me at one point and I was like, it's like the worst notification ever. You're totally taking me out of my game, but that's a very specific kind of game. I can see where you're doing some multiplayer stuff, you're having some fun. There might be a Discord server that, yeah, it seems a little clunky that you'd have to, you'd be able to view only, but if you want to jump in you got to kind of deal with the Steam menu a little bit. I could see where that would make a lot of sense because there are places where people have sort of clustered to talk about all sorts of stuff that might have to do with the game that you're playing. So it's kind of, it's kind of neat to have the option. For me, I feel like man, VR is just, there's only so much distraction you can have and then it kills the whole point of the VR, which is to get out of the world. Well, I think it's just an extension of what you're talking about, like a heads-up display when you're actually playing the game. It's like it's another thing to actually look at to the point where, all right, well that, like you said, I think it'd be good in certain games in certain contexts, but there's other ones where you just want as much of the VR screen as possible. You don't want anything else popping up. So yeah, it's, more choice is the better. And I think it takes us further down the road of just general productivity, VR, as a display, the more that you can put windows up floating, the more that you could be like, well, I'm not actually playing a VR game. I'm doing some work in VR. You're seeing more and more implementations of that. Yeah, yeah. And so, you know, instead of having to mount a 65 inch screen and pay for a 65 inch screen, you could just, you know, pretend you have a 65 inch screen. Yeah, that's really true. Yeah, it's not necessarily like, oh, my friends are chatting with me while I'm trying to get the best score possible. I mean, that's kind of what I'm doing. Yeah, right. But there are a lot of things you can do while wearing a VR headset where you might say, this is actually really hopeful. I can, you know, I can kind of see what's going on. Amazon is awash with inexpensive products from brands you may have never heard of, but they often have reviews around four and a half stars. And you may wonder, how does that happen? I've never even heard of this company. Well, it could be that these brands are selling very good products and have built a loyal and passionate customer user base. But the Wall Street Journal recently looked at the lengths that some of these brands will go to to avoid bad reviews and keep that star rating high. They found instances of sellers reaching out to customers who left bad reviews and offering them refunds or gift cards, sometimes for more than what they had paid for the item in exchange for taking down the review. I buy an item, I'm disappointed, I leave a bad review, I spent 20 bucks on the item, I get offered 40 bucks to take down the review. The contact comes outside of Amazon's official channels and violates its terms of service because it's not supposed to, you're not supposed to have an Amazon merchant contact you outside of channels and you're not supposed to have an Amazon merchant ask you to remove a bad review. So it violates it two ways. As part of Amazon's network, sellers get access to a customer's address for shipping and payment, of course, but emails are hidden. If Amazon fulfills a product for the merchant, which it often does, then the merchant only gets your city, state, and zip code. They don't even get your address. Now some appear to be getting around this by including offers of a free gift with an item. If you've ever seen a little card in the box with whatever you bought that says, hey, you get when a free gift card, it'll often ask you for an email and that you gave them your email if you signed up for that. Sometimes they'll even use third-party lookup services to take whatever information they do have and these third parties will be able to use the internet to go find out what the email address is that goes with that name, address, zip code, etc. A company called Matic Chain, for instance, is cited by the Wall Street Journal as offering an email extraction service specifically for Amazon sellers. Regardless of how emails are obtained, some customers reported getting emails four months after leaving a bad review continually asking for it to be taken down. There was one instance where the email said, we will keep emailing you until you respond. I know. Nicole Nguyen of the Wall Street Journal recommends not using your real name in your reviews, saving all the communications if you do get these kinds of emails and, of course, reporting them to Amazon. Well, you know, it's at least now customers are a little savvier when you see something like that they've never heard of, and there's like a thousand good reviews. The kind of the suspicious, you know, sensor goes off in your brain. So I think there's people are getting a little more savvy, but I've gotten those too. Like, I've ordered something and it wasn't an email. It was literally something in with the package like, hey, we're a small company. We'll give you this if you leave a good review, blah, blah, blah, or like just more stuff or whatever. So at what point do they start calling it broad and private? Right? Well, I mean, that is that. If it's a title review is a violation of the terms of service, right? Right, yeah, and it's clearly a rampant issue and I'll be interested to see how Amazon finally clamps down on it because ultimately it's going to hurt them because when people start to lose trust in the products that they sell, they're going to go elsewhere for their business. Well, yeah, I generally never look at a star review on a device unless it's got, you know, six or seven thousand. Those are harder to fake. But even then, I'm fairly skeptical of it. I try to look at how individual reviews are written or just fine reviews elsewhere off the platform. The problem is the scale at which Amazon works, it's whack-a-mole for them. You know, they can shut one of these down and this company will have five other brand names they go under and just pop over under them. And so it works for them to offer these gift cards because it floats them up higher in the search engines and they know it's harder for Amazon to catch them. Yeah, I think too, like before this really took off, I always felt like there was like an 80-20 rule where 10% of the reviews were like super good and like, okay, well those are plans. 10% of the reviews were people with an axe to grind and then the 80% in between were like the ones you could kind of trust. But you never know which was which, but generally I would go with the bulk. But now with everything getting manipulated, you have to be a little more cautious. Yeah, yeah. On Yelp, I generally will just look at the worst reviews and if they're complaining that, you know, about things where I'm like, yeah, that just happens in any business, then I know like, okay, this business is probably okay. Hey, folks, what do you want to hear us talk about on the show? One way to let us know is in our subreddit, submit stories and vote on them at dailytechnewshow.reddit.com. In his latest installment of his power on newsletter, Bloomberg's Mark Gurman argues that in the current streaming landscape, the Apple TV has become pointless. I know, I know that he goes on to tell us more. Apple TV spent a number of years as Steve Jobs described hobby and has never really matched the sales of Apple's other top-end devices. Certainly not the iPhone. But Gurman argues that even then it served a purpose because the initial 2007 version was designed to store and stream local media. Then there was the 2010 Apple TV, which was the company's entry into cloud streaming media that went for $99, and then you had the 2015 version that added the App Store. And there's a 4K version now. However, Gurman notes that the cost and features of the Apple TV make it harder to justify in the competitive landscape, even for those who are deeply in the Apple ecosystem, or at least feel that they are. What it does offer integration with HomeKit and Fitness Plus and AirPods and the iOS remote app, but there's no content advantage on the platform argues Gurman. It doesn't have any key apps that you can't find on Fire TV or Roku, and it also costs more. Even Apple TV Plus, you can get elsewhere. It's available pretty much anywhere. And Apple TV holds 2% of the market. Count them too. Gurman argues a shift in pricing may be the introduction of a cheaper Apple TV stick could help, or possibly offering Apple TV, Apple's TV Plus service for free on the device could also help. So Rich Truffilino before the show, because he helped us put the story together, had a little informal poll, you know, among friends who care about these sorts of things, and it and conducted on Facebook. 62% of Rich's friends owned a Roku. The rest were evenly split between either Fire TV or Apple TV. Owners of all the devices said they liked the UI. Apple ecosystem was a consistent draw for Apple TV, although cost was most cited among Fire TV users. Also interesting that most Apple TV respondents also said that they did own a Roku as well, while Fire TV users were most likely to also use a smart TV for streaming. Well, I have an Apple TV, and I will tell you it's for two reasons and two reasons only, because I wouldn't have gotten one for all of those reasons you just cited in that article. I have an older LG television and only half the apps work on it, like HBO Max doesn't work. Disney Plus would work, but you can't do the upsell, like the $30 ones, because there's weird functionality that's missing on those. So I got the Apple TV, so I could have all my TV streaming apps in one place, and also so the kids could kind of cast videos from their phone onto the TV. But that's it, those are the only two reasons when these new smart televisions, and we get a new one that all the apps actually are functional on, and it has airplay on it, there's no reason I would get another Apple TV. I, for the longest time, was Roku first. I felt like Roku was the best, mostly because it had all the apps. There was a long period of years where Roku had all the apps from everybody, and Fire didn't have all of them, and Apple didn't have all of them. But once everybody kind of got all the apps and that distinction went away, I found myself gravitating to the Apple TV because I liked the interface better. Now, granted, I was a person who didn't hate that old Apple TV remote, but even that's been changed now, you can get the new remote. And I just do find the interface more pleasing on the Apple TV. I have been an Apple TV fanboy though, since the very first Apple TV, which I still have. Of course you do. I just love, I love the idea of it. Got it right here, says Tom. Yeah, no, it's in my hand. So I'm probably not the most unbiased source on this. I've been brainwashed, but I really do prefer that interface. The one thing I will say is I, when they stopped showing you like what to watch next at the top and started showing you promotable things, I went into the settings and undid that. The thing I do love the most is that very big and very clear up at the top, it tells you like, here's the shows you've been watching. You can just click on them to start watching them next without having to find the app. And I know other interfaces have been adding that now. And so maybe I need to go experiment and see if I'm cool with the new interfaces. But I don't know, Apple TVs, they seem to work really smooth and I like the interface. Yeah, I'm an Apple TV user exclusively at this point. Most of everything I watch is either from a Plex Media Server or YouTube TV. But those are both things I could do on other platforms easily. I like the interface. I do feel like I'm sort of a victim of the Apple ecosystem sometimes where I'm like, I just know it, it's fine. I also haven't upgraded my Apple TV since 2015 when we got that. I think I actually bought it in 2016. But the app store model where it was like, oh, and you can air play stuff to the TV. And that was all very new. I'm still rocking that Apple TV. I don't have a new one. But there was a point where, yeah, I had to use a Roku to watch HBO content and then switch back and forth. And Roku had kind of other fun like Crackle.com stuff that I would play around with. And now I just, it's the one, it's one less thing to switch back and forth between. So I guess I kind of just made my choice for that reason. Yeah, it definitely makes it easier when everything is in one place. And if you like the interface, like I was literally going back from like, OK, well, this app works on the PlayStation 4. This app is on LG. And it was like, this is ridiculous. So let me get it all working in one place. And if you're in the ecosystem, you know, I watched Rick and Morty on my phone last night. But my Apple TV knows that when I go to watch and says like, oh, yeah, you already watched that. We're not going to try to make you watch that. I know I think the home kit stuff could also become an advantage, but it's not yet. So that that's sort of in the offing. And and if they ever get, you know, the the the HomePod speaker system to be more compelling as a controller for that and streaming music could become. But it's not there yet. So I don't think German's wrong about any of this stuff. I've just sort of. Well, yeah, I mean, look at the market share. It's like, I mean, Apple can't be pleased with two percent. No, I wouldn't be surprised. Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if there was a phase out eventually or it has to go one way or the other. It's either a phase out or a more robust offering of features. Yeah, they either go cheap, like German said, or they go higher fidelity. Like this is the upgraded sound, the upgraded picture that, you know, that is superior to what you would get, etc. etc. That would be a very Apple move. Real quickly, one China tech crackdown story to add on this Monday as we follow the continuing China crackdown on tech over the weekend, prosecutors filed a lawsuit against Tencent claiming that its WeChat youth mode violates laws protecting minors, though they did not cite what violated the laws. Youth mode is a function of WeChat similar to what a lot of social platforms have. Let's children use WeChat without the ability to access payments, without the ability to see if your friends are nearby and restriction on what games you can play. But apparently that didn't go far enough. So China cracking down on that now too. Well Ikea Canada has created instruction manuals and a batch of free PDFs for repurposing some of its products aptly named repurposeful instructions. And they're all designed to help upcycle furniture and other items that you might otherwise just toss out because you think, you know, like, yeah, it's, you know, kind of cheap anyway. And this isn't working for me anymore. So you could, for example, turn a candle holder into a planter or turn bags into a hanging garden or transform a cabinet into a beehive. Wow. Yeah. I thought that was pretty cool. It's cool. I'm just not sure where I would safely put that in my house. But okay. Well, I think that happened in the same development meaning is what do we do with the Apple TV? No, I think that's right. Yeah. Yeah. Come on, Apple. At least I had a repurpose it. Like, can you make the Apple TV into a beehive? Tom's first gen is quite big. But, uh, but, you know, this is actually, yes, I've turned my Apple TV into a beehive. Ikea has been, he's been kind of on a roll with the repurposing of items back in June. Ikea Norway launched a similar program called the Trash Collection, which gave broken or otherwise discarded Ikea furniture, their own catalog with ideas for reuse. And last year, Ikea stopped selling non-retargeable batteries. We talked about that, you might recall. Also converted its print catalog to a digital-only version, said we're not going to make all, you know, waste all this paper, launched a second hand store, and also bought nearly 11,000 acres of forest in Georgia to preserve it. Okay. So this, this is great. I love the idea of reuse, and whether you need a beehive or not, there's, there's lots of different ideas here to kind of spark your own ideas, I think is part of that. And there's, there's a whole culture of reuse already around, not only Ikea stuff, but all kinds of furniture out there. If Ikea really wants to do this right, it's not PDFs, y'all, it's, it's YouTube videos, TikTok videos showing, showing the ideas. That's how you get it out there in front of people. That's a really good point. Yeah. And then you get in front of the younger people that have the furniture as well. Well, yeah, exactly. And when you see it, you're like, oh, now I want a beehive in my house, that, you know, because I saw it in video and it looks so cool. And that lady made avocado toast on it. It's amazing. That's, as I understood it, how, how all that stuff works. But yeah, I think it's an interesting idea. And, you know, I might be downloading a couple of these free PDFs because these Billy bookcases aren't getting any younger behind me. Now, if you have enough of me, you could actually make that IKEA maze that you have to walk through at the store. Sometimes I feel like I'm in an IQ maze. All right. Let's check out the mail bags, Sarah. I'm going to start us at this time. A few of you wrote in, I'd say a half dozen or so, to disagree with my assertion on Friday that Apple's new notification system for child protection identified for users younger than 13, breaks and to end encryption. I really appreciated your sincere and respectful and well reasoned emails on what can be a pretty device of issue. So, y'all rock. Thank you so much to be clear with the end to end encryption topic. We're all talking about the personal notification system in Apple messages. We're not talking about the part of that story that had to do with iCloud photos, at least in this case. Some of you said that the system only notifies parents. It doesn't send the actual message contents. And you're like, so that doesn't seem like subverting into an encryption to me. Others of you contended that since it all happens on the device, it's at the end point and therefore does not subvert end to end encryption. To that first point about say it doesn't send any content to the parents, that may have been my misunderstanding. It was my understanding that the photo in question was saved for review by the parents, which sounded to me like message content being forwarded to a third party user. If that's not how it's going to work, then it comes down to point two, whether you think any information leaking out, even a notification, subverts end to end encryption, which is a more nuanced argument. End to end encryption in principle doesn't let anyone but the user handle its information. So the way I look at this, those of you who emailed me are sort of living constitutionalists. And then the people are like, no, it's end to end if any information leaks out are strict constructionists. And there's reasonable debate to be had about this. The Center for Democracy and Technology argues that client-side scanning on one end of the communication, just the scanning itself, breaks the security of the transmission and informing a third party, in this case the parent, about the content of the communication undermines its privacy. Organizations around the world have cautioned against client-side scanning because it could be used as a way for governments and companies to police the content of private communications. So again, talking about does this actually undermine end to end encryption, forget about whether you want to combat sexual images to children, if it only notified the police when you messaged something of interest but didn't send the police what you said, would you feel you were being protected by end to end encryption? That is a similar situation. That's the way Center for Democracy and Technology is saying you should think about it. Apple sees it different, of course. It issued a fact flatly stating, does this break end to end encryption to messages? No. And on the subject of letting either of these system be used for other things, Apple reiterated in that same fact that it will refuse any demands to add non-CSAM images to the hash list and pointed out it has resisted demands, quote, to build and deploy government-mandated changes that degrade the privacy of users before, which we mentioned Friday, but it's worth repeating. That brings us to one last email on this topic that I want to read in full from longtime patron John in Billings, Montana. Sarah, you get that one. Yeah, so John says, like Tom, I have mixed feelings about it, but I wanted to bring up an important point regarding how they plan to forward questionable content sent by children to their parents. The short version is that while messages themselves are end to end encrypted, Apple has always been able to direct those blobs of data to whomever. Steve Gibson did an episode of Security Now many years ago, and the reason that they can do this is because they act as the directory of devices public keys. So when you send a message, Apple provides the public keys and then can insert the keys of unintended recipients like the child's parents. John says the episode is around March 10th of 2014. He was kind of in transit when he sent us this note, but we do have a link in our show notes of the episode that he thinks that it was about. And John says, so why is trusting Apple necessary? It's about convenience. Apple wouldn't be where it is if people had to scan QR codes or transfer keys out of bands. I always love the show. That's a pretty good argument that this is not subverting end to encryption. It's just changing the endpoint, which again, I think a lot of people say, well, if you change the endpoint, you've subverted end to encryption. So my opinion on this continues to evolve. I haven't landed one way or another of whether I'm firmly against or for as you heard on Friday, I sort of kind of changed my mind about the uploading to the iPhoto, the photos to cloud, because that was already insecure and what they're doing is better than what Google and Microsoft do where they actually scan in the cloud. And it's very well protected. Barbu Schatz had a great explanation of that on security bits on Alison Sheridan's no silicast this week, but I'm still uncomfortable with the idea of leaking out information. I'm not saying this is a bad situation that it shouldn't happen even, but I am concerned that this is not pure end to end encryption. And once you let that happen, even if Apple's firm and says, no, we will never let this be used for anything else but this, it does set a precedent where others may go, well, Apple lets them do this. So maybe it's okay if we do it for another good purpose. And that's the slippery slope argument there. Chris, I don't know if as a father, if you follow this super closely, but the idea of protecting your children from things versus having pure encryption is pretty much the heart of this issue. Yeah. And as a parent, you always want as much protection for your kids as possible. So it's definitely a balancing act and as the technology evolves, like you said, your opinion is still fluid on all of this as well. So I tend to come down more on the side of like, well, what protects kids the most? So I would probably be a little more forgiving for a little more rules and things like that. Sure. And I guess the only thing I'll say is I can't disagree with any of that. It's always the unforeseen use cases. Remember, I'm very careful to explain this as an account created and identified as for someone 13 years or younger. Someone can create account for someone else on a family account called 13 years or younger if they want, possibly without that person's knowledge, even if they're not younger than 13. So it's always those cases that end up being the problems, not the one that they're intended to help with. Well, thanks everybody for their feedback about this topic and every topic that we talk about on the show. Keep it coming. Feedback at dailytechnewshow.com. Also, thanks to brand new bosses today. They are Danny Werner and Nathan. You know, like Prince. Nathan just goes by Nathan. Both just started backing us on Patreon. Thank you, Danny. And thank you, Nathan. Thank you both. That's a great way to start there. Two new bosses. New bosses, new bosses. Want to be a boss? We'll shut you out on the next show. Also, thanks to Chris Mancini for being with us today. Chris, where can people keep up with your work? People can find me at whitecatentertainment.com. And as your regular viewers know, if he's on the show, he must have a Kickstarter going right now. So I do have Rise of the Kung Fu Dragon Master graphic novel volume two. I know a lot of the dailytechnewshow fans had backed volume one. So but if you missed it, you can also back one and two as a combination special right now on the campaign that goes to September five. But pledge now, pledge early, pledge. We don't have to pledge often. Just once is fine. But the sooner the better because that always helps the numbers and the algorithms the quicker it can get to goal. It's about halfway there now. So thanks for the support. You could just get a link over at whitecatentertainment.com or go to Kickstarter and do Rise of the Kung Fu Dragon Master. It's a fun, actiony buddy comedy with like an 80s flair to it and kind of like a big trouble in little China. Goonies, Jackie Chan, Masha. And I know a bunch of people in our audience really enjoyed number one. So hopefully they'll be excited for number two as well. That's great. Thank you, Chris. Thanks for having me. Also, every time you say white cat entertainment, I'm like, rare. Yeah. Sort of just kind of have that going in my brain. I named it after my because I actually had a white cat that would sit with me while I wrote and she lived until almost 21 years old like a very, very old cat. So I felt like, you know, to kind of honor her a little bit. Yeah, because she was my writing partner basically. So that's what I named the company after. Oh, that's great. That's a great background. All right. Well, we're live on this show Monday through Friday. Did you know 4.30 p.m. Eastern, 20.30 UTC is when we're live. You can find out more at dailytechnewshow.com slash live and we'll be back doing it all tomorrow with Alice and Sheridan. Talk to you then. This show is part of the Frog Pants Network. Get more at frogpants.com. The Diamond Club hopes you have enjoyed this program.