 Welcome to the RF Elements Unlicensed Podcast. I'm Caleb. We're here with TaSos as always. And this week, we are talking to ourselves. Oh, it's been a while. It's just you and I, nobody else. Not creepy at all. So. Oh, damn. Since the beginning of the year, we've been working with the podcast and working with some guests, right? And we think it's been really working out well. Like we had a few last year that we went through. But this year, we're like, you know what, the most that we can do, I think, to help people learn more about the industry and what everyone's doing is by interviewing other people that are not us. So we've worked with WIS, we've worked with fiber providers, we've worked with equipment manufacturers, the service provider. So like software services and stuff like that. And I think it's been going really well. We've been getting a lot of really good feedback, really interesting conversations and these longer format conversations we've been having and really giving people an opportunity to learn more about, you know, the nitty gritty details behind a lot of different things in the industry. So I've had a really good time with it. Toss us and you have to. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it's it's been fantastic. Like I said, we're we're pretty tied into the whole, you know, WIS ecosystem as far as, you know, distributors, other WIS manufacturers. And so we we have a lot of information to share. But it's of course, it's there's nothing better than getting it from the source, right? And having these WIS online tell their stories and kind of help other WIS grow with them has just been fantastic. And I look forward to more of these podcasts with other exciting guests that are doing other exciting things in these very exciting times that we're living in right now. Yeah, never a dull moment, especially anymore now. We'll get to that here shortly. But, you know, we know it's also summertime. Everyone gets super slammed during summertime. Just so many things going on. Networks being built, equipment manufacturers are hustling and stuff like that. So we're going to definitely keep continuing with these interview formats as it's working really well. But, you know, a lot of us really going to depend on availability. You know, just being able to get someone pegged down and schedule things in advance and, you know, then there's vacations and stuff. And you've got your your big trip coming up. So I got to get my tan. You see my base tan? I got a base tan going. You better get some cover for that top, brother. So that's the first thing to get burnt, you know, so it's like it's like a warning thing. You're like, oh, oh, getting a little hot up here. I guess I'll start laying down the sunscreen. So yeah, yeah, I've got some trips playing. So it's important to get away every now and then. So, you know, you just got to get away, reset a little bit. So that's good stuff. But yeah, there'll definitely be more throughout the summer and everything. And you guys stay tuned to see what sort of cool stuff we've got going on. If you're interested in talking to us on the podcast, please reach out. Email addresses will show later. Caleb at RF elements dot com tosses at RF elements dot com. You know, we're looking for more folks to talk to. So we've got a pretty healthy list. But hey, we're we're here to learn ourselves. So we're cool, cool. So that being said, you know, it is very interesting times. Never a dull moment. I think I mean, what do you think tosses this whole NTA? NTIA, Bied, Nofo from the IJA seems to be the most popular topic, a conversation going on right now. So I thought we'd hit that up. Talk a little bit about government help in some areas or overreach or we're not going to go real heavy into the weeds here. There's a lot of people out there have various strong opinions about this sort of thing. But you know, it's been a really popular topic, a conversation. And I thought we would just kind of chat about it and give some of our insight and stuff, too. So let's get through the the the giant pile of acronyms here. So as part of the jobs act that was recently passed, the IJA, the Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act. There are some digital equity and broadband grant announcements from the NTIA or the National Telecommunications and Information Administration. OK, because we've got a big old administration that's going to handle all this. Now they have recently put out guidance and funding for Bede, Bede being the Broadband Equity Access and Deployment Program, because, you know, they had to make it spell a word. And just a few weeks ago, it is officially launched with the announcement of the NOFO or Notice of Funding Opportunity. So I'm going to close this window now if I'm a list here. And because I can't write my own memory. I'm totally glad that you handled that part of it because that's just a tongue twister for me and just forget about it. Yeah, yeah. So I'm like, yeah, but let me find the page that explains all this. But long story short, the government and its infinite wisdom has decided they're going to drop about forty three billion dollars, at least in this first phase of this project. So part of the infrastructure act and like a lot of things that government does with these projects is the intentions might be well founded. But as always, it's the implementation. So the there's a lot of information out there. What's was been doing a lot of information, putting out some webinars and stuff. But the elevator pitch of this is about forty three billion dollars at play. And it is to be spent on building broadband to un-served and under-served areas across the country, all 50 states and a handful of various regions and stuff from islands and stuff like that. So that are not officially state. So the the crux of it are, I guess, where a lot of the conversations really come up, though, is how the money can be spent, how these areas are defined and what qualifies for service. Because I think that's really what surprised people when it came. Definitely. So it was there. There's a couple of catch points. So there's unserved, which means there is no available service and they're tracking this to the address level, which is new as well. Right. Yeah. Really high resolution this time, not at the county level. Yeah, my county is not weird zip code zones, weird polygons and stuff. The mapping services will be implemented later this year, tracking down to the individual address, which is new and very interesting. But so an unserved address will be an area that does not have access to 25 by three service, right? Yes. Yes. Anything below that is considered unserved. Right. So unserved and then there's underserved, which are areas that are below maybe above 25, 3, but below 100 by 20. OK, correct. So in the wireless world, it's good that they introduce these levels that are asynchronous, you know, when the beginning, it was all same update, same download, right? Typically intended for fiber. But, you know, there was a lot of work to allow for wireless in the air and the asymmetric speeds that most wireless systems offer. So this is where there's 25, 3 or this 100 by 20 comes from, which is great. The real sticky point came up, though, in this conversation when they're like, oh, by the way, we didn't really talk about this in the beginning, but now anything served with unlicensed spectrum is considered unreliable and does not count for served areas, right? And that's where the the record scratch came out in this conversation. So no photo got posted on like Friday. It was a Friday the 13th, may apparently everyone's like, oh, cool. The details are out of 90 pages. But what? Yeah. So this is where we are in the industry as a whole is kind of scrambling to figure out, OK, well, what constitutes, you know, unlicensed and is coming out that obviously five gig unlicensed looks like all the six gig stuff that's being deployed whenever that's ready. You know, next year, next year, plus, plus in the end of that kind of deal. But also, but CBRS, if you're in GAA, that's not considered a license. Now, CBRS pals is and I'm not a lawyer. This is just a common understanding that we've got of it, right? Yeah. So now you're looking at all these areas, even overbuilt areas from different government funding projects that are deploying. But we would consider very reliable service, fast fees, good service. You know, these really well built with about their networks that people are really happy with. And then the stroke of a pin. Now, these are considered unserved. It can be overbuilt, which is a really sketchy sort of situation and where folks are like, OK, what do what do we do with this information? So, yeah, it's really it's I mean, it's really the devils and the details and it's really all left to to really kind of define what these things mean, right? So we really have to see where it goes and how it hashes out. I know WISPA is chiming in and saying they're going to do everything that they can to send out notices and get clarification, I guess is the best word for for what all these terms mean, underserved, what's licensed, what's unlicensed, because there's even something in there that says that if I forgot the exact wording, but it's something like if the area is supported by license, then it's OK, right? Which some people are interpreting as, well, if I have license back calls coming into my tower, then that's considered supported by license. And therefore, the unlicensed distribution of point to multi point from there would be OK, right? So these are all the things that really need to be figured out and really needs to be clarified for the WISPA industry. Yeah, there's so much of it. And now the lawyers are really digging in and, you know, of course, getting paid, obviously, you know, that's always a part of these funding projects. So for, you know, at first glance, it was a little doom and glum, but, you know, after people started digesting the info and talking it out, you know, it's definitely like it's not awesome, right? Because government money paying to overbuild an area where you are. It's never a great thing, clearly. But there's a lot of things to consider. One, this is a big bloated government project and everybody's got their hands out. So, you know, the first thing forty some on billion dollars sounds like a lot of money. I mean, it is right, right? Less, less day by day lately. But but, you know, OK, so now this is going to be spread across 50 states and a handful of territory. So that spreads it thin. There's a lot of money that goes into the states. Like the states are administering their own areas, right? Some are going to go deep into this and be a lot more effective. Some of them are not, you know, just because they don't have the man's power, resources, ability, you know, I think what was it? Thirty four states, I think had broadband offices like official broadband offices, but that leaves the others that don't. So they've got to set this up. They've got to figure this out. So one is a lot of money, but it is being spread across a very wide area. The other thing, I mean, we're probably not going to see money hitting until what, deep into late next year, because they've got to set up these broadband offices, their programs and everything. So, I mean, and with how things go, especially with the government, I mean, it's probably going to be 24 before things start moving. And it's kind of a phased approach to. So there's that. There's, you know, the big fear is it's going to be fiber. All these fiber fighters are going to pop up from nowhere and over build. But fiber is still incredibly expensive. And it really incredibly slow to deploy. Yeah, right. And it's also like it's not mandated. Like these companies are picking geographic areas that going to cover. I think to cover an area, I think it has to like 80% of the addresses in the area have to be considered unserved. Or if they're served, but underserved, then they can apply for the second round. There's a whole bunch of stuff. So, you know, there's going to be a lot of areas where these fiber providers or even your bigger companies and stuff are like, nah, there's just not enough people out there. So, you know, there's there's a whole lot of places in this country with very sparse population density where wireless makes a really good fit. You know, you've got a five or six mile radius from your tower. You can cover a lot of ground from a single spot. Or if you're trying to fiber to the home, each one of those, that's a lot of a lot of empty miles and stuff. So yeah, yeah, that's a big part. I mean, there's so many other things involved to all the weird clauses and stuff like buy American so buy American programs. Good point. Yeah. Great. I mean, by American, yeah, we should definitely buy American stuff. But in the middle of a global supply chain crisis where like fiber now, I mean, a lot of fiber is six, eight, 12 months out. And now it's mandated. You've got to buy American fiber, you know, it's great for those folks. You know, making the stuff. But I mean, they're already a ways out. So now we've got all this supply chain issues. And then is that by American clause going to dictate down to the switch level? You know, is this the infrastructure that ties into it? Like there's a lot of that stuff is not defined as well. So yeah, there's also the uptime requirements as well. Right. So I don't know about the previous funds that have gone out, but there's something like you have to guarantee no more than 48 hours of outage per year. So I don't know how that breaks down. Is that overall in the network? Is that per sub? And, you know, how, how, you know, how all that's going to be calculated and even tracked, right? Is yeah, it's just, it's just crazy. It's just crazy to think on, you know, all the little fine points that they're putting in there. A lot of the money also has to go to hubs, you know, historically underserved businesses and stuff like that. So there's, yeah, there's a lot of fine prints to really go through. And I don't, I don't think that the, that the actual bidding process and stuff really starts sometime in November or something like that. So we have time to kind of figure it out, I believe. And before the first, the first bids and contracts and whatever start, start going out, the paperwork has to be filed. Yeah. I mean, they, they've got to get the mapping done. And like, they're like, oh, we're going to have it done by November. I'm like, oh, okay. Sure, buddy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So yeah, it's, you know, it's definitely something to consider. If you're doing an unlicensed with us and, you know, even if you've got a really good network and stuff, it's something that you've got to consider. But even if you do get overbuilt in the next few years, I mean, you know, there's no guarantee that they're going to wipe you out. I know a lot of people that are competing with, you know, fiber networks on the daily basis. And, you know, as long as your speeds are good, I mean, all those 60 gig networks that are doing amazing capacity, latencies and everything else, those are all unlicensed, right? So those are tremendously well built and well run networks, or they can be. So, you know, we know a lot of folks that are taking it to the fiber providers and, you know, you've got to focus on what got you there in the first place, you know, things like customer service, your local entity, you participate in the local community. A lot of these things we've kind of either preached about independently, or a lot of our other like WISC, yes, I've talked about, you know, working at that local level, you know, and say, look, I'm a part of this community. And yeah, Spectrum could run, you know, those kind of commercials. Everyone's like, yeah, OK, buddy, whatever, you know, there's a lot of these, you know, WISC that are doing really well and are really integrated into the community. So it's not like they're going to get put out of business day one. So yeah, and I think that's the other thing, too, because really this money that goes out is really that private public relationship, right? So you have to start talking to the people in your county and stuff like that or at the state level and help them. Because a lot of these government entities are very uneducated when it comes to broadband, right? So they're really looking for somebody to guide them. And, you know, somebody like Spectrum or AT&T don't always have the capacity to go down to that, you know, granular level to start talking to all these local municipalities and stuff like that. So I think that's really where we, as WISPs, have the upper hand on them. I mean, a lot of us already have those relationships. A lot of those government entities are already coming to us for advice and guidance. So I mean, you know, if you have your foot in the door already, that's fantastic. If you haven't, get your foot in the door, you know, start talking to these people, start educating them, start showing them the difference. And, you know, also, you know, the fiber-only approach is really the worst approach you can have because people need broadband now, right? And that's what whispered to the table. We've been providing it to underserved areas since inception. We continue doing it well. We know it very well. I mean, this is really all in our wheelhouse, right? So it's this hybrid approach of fiber and wireless is something that we really have to focus on. And WISP, we've mentioned it many times before. It's like, as a WISP, if you're not in fiber now, you should start looking into it. I know there are, you know, funding issues. And obviously there's dollars involved in trying to do this. But, you know, becoming familiar with it, you know, getting your feet wet, even on small projects to just kind of, you know, learn how to deploy fiber is, you know, a good place to start. So we really have to start looking at, again, that hybrid approach. Because I believe in the end, that's really what's gonna make all this happen and bring good connectivity to these underserved or unserved regions of our country. For sure, for sure. You know, and there's a lot of money where, I mean, you guys can be competing for this money as well, right? And then, you know, it's a lot of potential out there, for sure. So, you know, again, it was really scary, you know, that weekend afterward, everyone was like, what is going on? But, as folks started grinding through the 100 pages, and that's just like the notice of funding. That's like, hey, here's what we're doing, and kind of some of the details. And it's pretty deep. So, and this thing's not 100% set in stone either. Like, there's definitely some areas where they're gonna be further discussion and redefine things and stuff like that. So, you know, any sort of big blanket project like this, that's on the four or five-year plan, you know, it's gonna have to have some amount of variability or, I guess, flexibility to it. Just to deal with implementation in a real world. So, you know, a bunch of congress creators and stuff laying down the law. And then, oh, this is how we're gonna do stuff. And that plan lasts about the time that you start hanging my first thing, and you're like, maybe we need to pivot. Pivot! Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's all about the pivot. Again, I think that's the thing, again, we have to focus is, you know, we're here, we are now, and we can do it much quicker than they can with Fiber. And quite frankly, you know, Fiber doesn't always mean self-funded. You know, there are lots of situations out there where developers and other people are willing to foot the bill, you know, to bring Fiber into their community. And they've been dealing with, you know, the kind of incumbent people out there to spectrums, to co-ops and other people that are out there that are just, you know, having a hard time, you know, delivering on their promises and stuff like that. So, you know, again, you have to be active. You have to be in the game. And, you know, you have to, you really have to go for it. You know, if you just sit around and, you know, cry and worry about like, this is gonna be the end, then yeah, I mean, it probably will be for you, you know, but get involved and give it a go. You know, give it the old college try, at least, you know, you have to. Yeah, yeah. And it kind of plays into conversation. We were having internally this morning is, you know, kind of keeping your eyes on the prize. So there's a lot of stuff like, there's a lot of scary things going on, you know, I mean, just with the economy and the inflation and the recession that we've been waiting on for like three or five years now. Let's come and bubble this, bubble that, whatever. So, you know, there's that aspect of things. There's just beat stuff coming out, you know, on the scary side. But then there's also a lot of really cool stuff. Everyone's like, yeah, six gig, great. I'll have the next stuff, which is great. You know, next generation platforms. All right, this is awesome. But, you know, it's good to have your eyes looking towards the future, obviously, but you can't do that without not focusing on the now as well, right? Or keeping your eyes on the prize. Because, you know, it's one thing to go, all right, we're not going to do any new deployments until six gig comes out. But what if it ends up being, you know, earliest as Q1 next year, kind of seems to be the general consistency, but government things, right? So this could, I mean, this could easily roll on to the next year. Maybe they're like, well, we could play into this and tie this into the bead thing or whatever else. Yeah, you know, there could be an administration change that happens and then that throws a lot of wrenches into this. So, you know, it's good to have plans for the future, but you get really got to think about now, like what can I deploy now? Where are areas that can grow now? The tech is available, the tech is mature. You know, there's a lot of places for new growth, right? And a lot of people are waiting to green field new networks, you know, waiting on six gig or waiting on full AX and stuff like that. But you could be building these networks now, making money now. We've talked about that in the past is, you know, there's a lot to be done now that will make money for you now. Because I mean, that's in the end, that's what we're trying to do is make some money. So, you know, all the promises of backwards compatibility and rollover, that's going to take a while. So, you know, you need to focus on what you can do now. If you're struggling with equipment like a lot of people are, you know, and you can't build out new, you know, look at improving what you've got, you know. So much of our growth and success has been tied into people that have said, look, I've got these networks on sectors, they work okay, but they've gotten noisy, they've gotten busy, it's kind of tough. And they swap them out, put horns up and now all of a sudden their performance is way higher, modulations are higher. All these things that we are constantly preaching about is because this is where it's come from. It's real, right? So, you know, if you've got, if you're in a situation where you can't really build out a lot of new networks or you're worried about footprint and stuff, lots of potential to increase the performance of what you've got. Generation upgrade something, split congested sectors into smaller horn slices with radius. When there's a lot of different ways that you can improve the performance. If you've got questions about how to do that, you know, we've got a ton of resources out there that explain these sort of things. I like our YouTube channel. I mean, you know, you're always telling people tosses me too, you know. The resources on the YouTube channel that are learning about how to implement and use, right? So, I mean, there's, let's say, Wis Traveler. You know, Wis Traveler is a good video series that we've done a lot of work with that says these are real people in the real world, how they've been used on our stuff to increase the performance. We've got things like the Inside Wireless series where we teach a lot about the basic fundamentals and get people educated about how to do stuff. Webinars, we've got piles and piles of webinars that we've got posted. In different languages too. Yeah, exactly, multilingual, so. Yeah, yeah. Like the Migration of Horns, you know, that's a really popular one. I think that's where a lot of people get a lot of really good, useful information on how to move from sectors to horns. And, you know, a really good way of looking at it from what you've got currently to dabbling and figure out how it works. You learn really quickly what it takes to get it done. Then you can roll on with the rest of the network and proven into performance, making yourself more competitive, you know. I think that's a big point too, is when we're talking about overbuilding or we're talking about the competition and getting stuff in tighter, you know, you can't just kind of sit on your heels and just let this go. So what was, you know, competition, you know, from satellite is now, you know, Starlink's coming, right? And, you know, it's definitely got its own problems, but it's a thing like everyone needs to consider. Maybe fiber overbuilds, maybe, you know, government-funded license lists or the big FWA, the fixed wireless pushes from your, you know, Verizon and T-Mobile and stuff. Like all these things are out there. And if you kind of sit on a network that's old and kind of antiquated, you know, the days of, I'm doing five megs down, one meg up, or probably somewhat limited in the near future. Yeah, that's a really good point. I mean, you know, if we, like I understand everybody wanting the latest and greatest and wanting to move to six gig. I mean, you know, there's two parts really to the six gig. There's the AX part of it, increased performance, but I think it's really about the spectrum that's available that's really where, you know, people are kind of, you know, pigeon-toed into or thinking about or why they want it so bad. But, and if we look at the, again, just go back to the basics of the requirements for what's served, underserved, and so on and so forth. I mean, 100 by 20, we've been doing that for a couple of years now. I mean, WISP have been doing it with the current equipment set that we have now that's baked and ready. You know, I see a lot of WISPs out there still, you know, time to time deploying omnis, right? Well, it's low density, we don't have the money. I mean, there's still people going out and deploying the cheapest possible hardware they can find, like these LAP APs and, you know, and all these other things and what have you. So, there is much better equipment now. It's not, you know, it's not, you know, multiples of costs to go to, you know, a hardware platform that's more stable, more reliable and capable of delivering and working within the requirements that are out there now. So, yeah, you know, six gig is fantastic. AX is gonna be great when that time comes. But, you know, if you're sitting on a legacy network, now is the time. Now is the time to take down those wide sectors and break them into more narrow horns to go from these kind of really cheap integrated, you know, sector radios, all in one thing to go to a more reliable, you know, radio with horns or something like that in order to build this capacity to get that aggregate throughput and customer density at your towers to serve the customers you have now and in the future. I mean, and this is the other thing, like I hear a lot of the, you know, pushback, you know, in the cities and stuff like that. It's like you said, the T-Mobile's are coming out with $30 a month, $25 a month, unlimited, no caps, all this other stuff. It's like, well, you know, why fight that fight right now? It's like, you know, this is about getting connectivity to rural America. If you're in there fighting, you know, with other providers, you're not really doing the service that the Wisp industry is supposed to be doing and that's focused on the people who don't have internet, you know, get out to those rural areas, do those builds and start serving those companies, make sure you're filling out your, you know, form 477s and letting people know we are here. Yeah, you know, all these things are really important and they're not hugely capital intensive and they're not very difficult to do to keep yourself relevant and in this fight, really. Yeah, yeah, like I said, I was on the prize and don't be waiting for the great next thing tomorrow, like focus on what you can do now and just get ready, you know, just get ready for what's happening. And I mean, and there's always gonna be competition, there's gonna be technology growth. And I mean, there always has been, right? I think this is just lately, a lot of the stuff that's been out there is really putting a bead on the nose for folks. So I was on the prize, get stuff done. You know, if you're curious about using our horns and stuff, like I said, we got a ton of resources on our YouTube channel, our website. We've got so much stuff on our website, the link calculator, you know, we haven't had a good link calculator pump in a little bit, so use the link calculator. But just all the, just all the useful information out there, if you've got any questions, you know, please reach out to us for sure. And we can help you, you know, if you're, if you're horny and curious, we're there to help answer your questions. So, but yeah, I think it's a good summary of kind of what we've been doing, what, you know, the big news items and stuff now and just kind of keep everyone recentered and refocused. So guys, you know, if you've got any questions, please reach out to us. Where can they find this? Oh, we forgot our call to action. Oh, we're bad podcast people. Oh, no. Don't forget to like, listen, or subscribe to our channel right here on YouTube or anywhere you download your audio podcast like Apple, Spotify or Google. We're just trained monkeys and if we do something slightly different than normal, we just completely lose the pause. So, where all can they find us again? Yeah, you can find us everywhere on social media, specifically on the Wisp groups on Facebook and on Instagram. You could always find good information on our website, RFelements.com, on our forum for more technical stuff, RFelab.com, and again, really, really great information, not just about us, but about other Wisp on our YouTube channel, so it's YouTube.com slash RFelements. Check out all the information. We've spent a lot of time and resources putting this information out there to help you grow your Wisp the easiest way by learning from other people's mistakes and figuring out how to overcome a lot of the challenges you may be having. It's probably been solved and it's probably documented somewhere on our YouTube channel, so definitely check that stuff out. Okay, any more closing words or do you think it's good? No, I mean, honestly, whenever it seems like things are negative, there's always so many positive things to be looking at, right? So, I mean, somebody actually used a pretty good phrase the other day, we were talking about some of the doom and gloom stuff and what's happening and stuff, and I said, you always have to look forward, stop looking back at that stuff. It's like, even when you're flying an airplane, you still have to scan for traffic, right? So, yes, you have to be aware of what's happening around you. You need to know the things that are coming, of course, the things that could hurt you, right? So, it's really important to be abreast of that, but don't hyper-focus on it as the key. Hyper-focus on what you do, what you do really well, and continue doing that. 100%, man, 100% eyes on the prize. So, well, until next time, folks, y'all be good. Bye. Be good now. See ya.