 Well, Don and Mike were so excited to have you on This Is Purdue. Thank you for joining us. So we'll start off easy. When did you guys first hear about Purdue? You're from Pennsylvania. You grew up in Indiana, but what was that moment where you heard about Purdue and and how did you decide to come to Purdue? Do you want to start? I guess I should start, right? Well, I was I grew up in Columbus, Indiana, south of Indianapolis and the three major schools in Indiana was Notre Dame, Purdue and and IU. So that's about all the football that I really knew, and college football and all that, and the fact that I only got offered two scholarships. One of them was from Purdue and the other was from IU. Notre Dame just didn't show any interest and that didn't bode well for me, I guess, or for them, you know, in the future. Sure. But you know, Purdue, it was an interesting thing for me because I lived in Columbus on my right side, as I remember, was a dentist from IU and on the other side was an engineer from Purdue. So as we got closer to making a decision, it was like, you know, I felt like a wishbone, really, you know, they were tugging on me both ways. But Purdue just, Purdue made a really good impression on me. It's funny because one of the things I don't remember about Purdue in the campus was the bricks, the brick campuses and all that. And I guess it didn't really hurt that I lived in a brick house in Columbus. So that kind of made me feel at home, really. But I mean, more than that, it just, the first impression I had was the right one, and that usually is the one you go with. So there's where I got an offer and I wanted to be there. What about you, Dom? Yeah, I was quarterback in Johnson, Pennsylvania, and I was recruited and I had multiple schools that I looked at. And in fact, I signed a letter of intent to go to Wake Forest. But then I went to Purdue and I met Bob Gracie, who was kind of my idol at the time, and interviewed with Coach Malinkoff. And I got a greatest sense of commitment and a great sense of values. And it was a school I decided I wanted to go to because the passing offense was amazing and it was quarterback Haven, and Wake Forest wasn't in the same league. So I ended up coming to Purdue and going to pharmacy school. Awesome. And you guys have been friends for over 50 years. We showed up on campus. There were five quarterbacks that were in scholarship. One of them was going to become the replacement for Bob Gracie. So I met him on the practice field competing with him. And you know, if you're a quarterback, you always think you're the best. You have to think that. And you know, we just competed, really competed. And through the competition, we got to know each other really well because when you compete with someone, you know about them, you know about who they are, you know about what their character is. You know about what their values are. And out of that, we just became, even though we were competing, great friends. So we've been friends since the freshman year. Yeah, it seems strange that that would happen because, you know, it's like, you know, he wanted the position, I wanted the position, so did two or three other guys. But as we, as it developed on itself, you know, we all accepted the role and we all became, you know, we were a team. That's what made us different. Everybody had a role to play. And once it was defined, then it was all about winning the football game for Purdue. This guy could have played for any other big 10 school and just happened that he picked Purdue. And, you know, I was fortunate enough to get the position. And but he came in many times. And when I was nicked up and he saved us a few times. Did you guys have a favorite memory or a favorite game looking back? Well, my favorite memory is because that was one of the questions I didn't look at was a lot of people wondered why Coach Malinkoff was such a great coach. And this story, I think, tells a story about why he was. He was tough as nails, really tough, diminutive guy. But when he spoke, everybody listened. So we're playing Indiana. It was our senior year. We're in the locker room. Jack had cancer at the time and he was at Lafayette Home Hospital. And he decided against medical authority that he was going to put his robe on and come over to the locker room and meet all the players. So he comes in and he's the normal gruffy and he starts hugging every player. And he said, how much he loved you. And I still cry, I think about it. But that's why he was such a great coach, because he demanded a lot. But you knew he really cared about you. So needless to say, that's not not the best way to get ready for a big game. You know what I'm saying? That's why we're coming in. Oh, he's hugging everybody. But we did go out and beat him and pretty soundly. But the initial move on the field was we were all thinking about Jack's welfare. And unfortunately, the cancer didn't, you know, do them in. Yeah, if you're done, let me add to that one, too. I do remember that. I hadn't thought about that one until you brought it up. Yeah, and I was close to the, well, I was in the room, of course. And I still remember them raising the gate. It was, remember the chains cladding, there he was. And when it got to the point that I saw my offensive lineman on the floor crying, I mean, it's, believe it was going on, I had to get out of there. I mean, I laughed because I had to keep cool because we had a gate coming up here. Yeah, so I got out of there. I mean, it was very, very emotional. You can tell we still feel it. And then we kicked off to them. It's like, you know, we left our motion in the locker room. They ran the ball back, remember? Almost 90 yards, they didn't score. But we regrouped. That was a great game. I remember that one. Yeah, it's a great win for us. A lot of Coach Molikov swords. I won't go into all of them, but he was a great, great coach. And he left a mark on me and Mike, I'm sure, and the rest of the teammates. Is there any other mentor or professor at Purdue that really impacted you both and had an effect on you? Well, I was in the pharmacy school. I was the only football player in the pharmacy school. Really? I was, yeah. And and I had a professor named Dr. Gilbert Banker who ran the Pharmaceuticals group. And he was the one who encouraged me to go to graduate school. And he was part of the faculty advisor group for athletics. So he was kind of the guy that if he thought I needed some pat on the back or whatever, he would call me in. And he was the reason I ended up going to graduate school. So he left a mark on me. Sure. What would you say? I wouldn't say any particular professor. Both of us took I took my education very seriously. And so did Don. I mean, he he was preparing for a future outside of after Purdue. So was I. I really had no inclination coming to Purdue about playing professional football. Really? Oh, no. I just wanted to be be a big 10 quarterback. That would that never enter my mind. And it wasn't really until my senior year that I realized, yeah, maybe I had a chance, you know. So but I'm kind of getting off that. The reason I said that is because the education was the most important thing to me. And I went into the business school, Crannard. And I had one tutor. I think it was in Costa County. His name was David Floyd Day. And we became friends and he went off to be the CEO of Office Depot. And so he had a real successful career. So I think of him and the friendship we had over the years. And but again, you know, I accomplished a lot on the football field. But I think one of the greatest things that I ever one of the best awards I got was the being an All-American academic, All-American. That was kind of special. I also read you turned down a Rhodes scholarship. I did. What was going through your mind? How did you make that decision? Well, I was going to get I get drafted football. And that's just where I was going to go. The Rhodes Scholar, I didn't really realize how I guess what's the word? Distinguished. Yeah, that was. And I guess I found out afterwards that I played 12 years. So I was after that, I, you know, took a break. I guess it was still been available for me to go. But I never even thought about it. I was 36 years old when I was thought I had learned about all I needed to learn from that point on. But yeah, that's that was an honor. And but if you somebody saw to use it, I'm sure. Yeah. So I guess in your first round pick in the NFL Draft. Yeah, I guess you go with that. Yeah. So, Don, how do you think that pretty prepared you for a life after college football? Well, I think I would talk about two things. Number one, being on a championship football team. Probably that prepared me more for business than anything. Even more than my educational work. How's that? Well, I mean, you, the level of commitment, the preparation, the teamwork, all of those things are inherent to running a successful company, knowing how to pull people together, develop the right strategy, not give up. As an entrepreneur, you can't give up. All of that gave me a foundation that was really important. And then the pharmacy school and to this day, it's still top five. I think they instilled such a professionalism in me, an ethical commitment, because I've run a couple of pharmaceutical companies and the ethics has always been there. And then the commitment to patient care. So with those two, you know, I feel so committed to doing whatever I can to support Purdue, because they gave me the foundation for me to build a career off of, which has been great. Sure. Mike, what would you say about your NFL experience? What was that like? Well, it was different from Purdue. First of all, really, let me think about that one in a second. But I went to Cleveland in 1970 and for me to get to Cleveland and first round pick, they had to trade up to get that pick. They traded Paul Warfield. People, Paul Warfield was an all pro. He was from Warren, Ohio. He went to Ohio State. I mean, he was just the icon. And so they traded Paul to get me, as I said. And I mean, I walked into a really hornet snest from many in many ways. The expectations were really elevated. But he used to walk in professional football and deliver. And so I had to win back a lot of the fans and trust me, a lot of the players since Paul was sold. Popular. And he was a great football player. I didn't get the warmest reception. So I mean, I had to win the team over. So that was a challenge. Right. I had never been booed in my life at Purdue. And they would boo you. Not at Purdue. No, in Ohio, they would. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. That was how many games in a row until you won over the trust and the. Oh, I mean, it wasn't every game. I mean, they expected a lot. Cleveland, the fans were just phenomenal fans. But they they wanted they just expected to win. And it didn't always go that way. Sure. Did I ever get used to that? I really does motivate you, you know, you say, well, boo me now. And then, you know, at the end of the game, we'll see where you're at. So but that that was an adjustment. I had never had you ever been booed before. I mean, I never played in a football. No, I know. I mean, you've never been booed. Yeah. So I mean, it was like, what is this? But that's one reason it was different. I can't say, you know, it was football. I enjoyed it. I did the very best. I would prepare. But, you know, the outcomes weren't as like they were for you all the time. We have some great years at Cleveland. But it just I don't want to get into the great details of my career there. But, you know, I ran its course there in seven years. And I said, you know, it's time for me maybe to have a change of scenery, which I thought maybe it would be good for Cleveland and me. And so I got traded to Chicago and played five years there. And finally said, you know, it's 12 years. Professional football is not what everyone thinks it is. I think it's a very glamorous position. They would be the envy of everyone else. I can I can tell you that it's it's not that way. It's very, very pressure-filled, it's hard work. So it's funny, too, because this this was popped into my mind when I retired and I did it on my own because I just had lost the passion for it. And you always get that question, you hear, do you miss it? It's like, do you miss it? And somebody asked me that. I said, you know, I was as happy or happier the day I retired than the day I first got drafted. And it's like, he looked at me and said, how can that be? You know, it's like, you don't understand professional football and the pressure that we, you know, we are under particularly a quarterback. I mean, it's like everybody sees what you do. So how did you overcome those challenges and get your your mind straight when you're walking into those games? Well, you just focus. You first of all, you're prepared. I mean, we never went into a game in Purdue thinking we were going to lose. That that just that thought Jack and still that. Yeah, I'm not maybe you're going to win it. There's no way you're going to lose. Yeah. Yeah. So we were prepared. And as as quarterbacks, we never liked surprises. Sure. I mean, we always knew what the defensive was going to do. And if they made this adjustment, we were going to do that. So it's not we weren't going to be caught off guard. I don't think we ever were caught off guard. No, we were very well. Yeah. So I guess I'm kind of getting off track, but you have to prepare. You know, so you focus on that. When you get into the game, I blocked out everything, the fans and all that. I really did. You have to. Yeah. So that's that's my story. I kind of got off track. We love going off track. Yeah. So you are both here for the President's Council weekend. Yeah. You know, like I said, you guys have been friends for over 50 years. What does it mean to still be involved in this Purdue community, the way that you both are? Well, I think because Purdue has meant so much to me, I want to see it continue to be very successful. I want to see the football program nine and four is not bad. It's pretty damn good. Yeah, I want to see it continue to grow. And the reason is students like to go to a university that have successful athletic programs like our basketball team, they share. So I think it adds so much to the spirit and and also the recruitment of students and to the pride of being part of that kind of an organization. So for me, being part of a championship team and come back and see another championship team, it feels really, really good. It's hardly described the feeling, but it feels it makes you feel proud. Absolutely. Well, get on to that. What's interesting when I've come back to these events is that they always have another player from another generation. They had Dustin or yesterday, Dustin Keller here in his story. And before that, there was a couple of other guys that you could sense that they got that they had the same experience that we did and the impact that it had on their lives. And so I just see it carrying down from the days we were here before us. I'm sure it was the same and it continues to go on. What drives that? I don't know. They're just something special here that I don't know if you can describe it, but you certainly can feel it. And when you get back with the Purdue family, you you feel good and you walk away feeling better, you know. And you guys mentioned the football record. Are you still following the program closely with Coach Brown? Sure, absolutely. I think this was a breakthrough year, transformational year. And the offense has always been absolutely great. So we're hopeful that he'll continue this this year with next year and even better. So I think he's doing a great job. Well, I agree with the hawk. That's just that's his name. Why was that a nickname? Well, we're not going to talk about that. No, we yeah, well, I guess everybody probably doesn't know. But his nickname was the hawk. I was the flip. There's stories behind that. But, you know, I, you know, is Purdue football still in our hearts? Absolutely. It's always got to be that way. I agree with Don that this was a breakthrough year for Purdue. A couple of years ago, we beat Ohio State at Rossade, and that was like the turning point for the program. And, you know, we hit some bumps in the road after that. And but we had high expectations as fans. I see it back now. I think we come back and turn the corner. But, you know, that's last year. You have to build on that. And there's everything's changed. You know, you've got new players. You've got now we have four new coaches for the next season. It's just there's moving parts. You try to build off what you've done last year. But there's no guarantees for next year. But we're very optimistic. You guys still go back for tailgates or do you have any traditions when you're watching a Purdue game or superstitions? Well, we go back normally for homecoming. OK. And probably the highlight of that isn't so much a game at seeing my teammates. Because when you go through playing ball with someone, no matter it's 55 years ago, there's a bond that you make that's nothing like nothing else and a friendship. And because you know them down inside, they know you. They know what you stand for. And it's so much fun to do that fellowship again. So, yeah, we do go back. We go back for homecoming, typically. Yeah, I still remember riding the bus in to Ross A. When we were playing home and you'd see all this tailgate going on each other, I want to get into that. I want to give it to you. How are we going to do that? I know. And we've caught up, I think. So we're I really enjoy that part of it, too. I mean, when I think about Purdue, I think about it being a rock. It's a rock and, you know, a big, big rock that stands for so many great things and you can't move it because it's there and it goes so deep. The roots are so deep and to all the students that went there that have made something out of themselves and a lot of successful people from Purdue. And it gives people the foundation to be able to do whatever you want to do. You know, and the student athletes, I would talk to them and say, hey, education, education, education. Right? Right, because football eventually ends, right? Yeah, for me it did. Well, me, too. For him, too. You're not still playing? No, he's out. He can't go deep anymore. So what would you say to students and maybe even particularly, you know, the football team members right now as young students? What would advice would you guys give them? I would say 150 percent on the field, 150 percent in class. And they're both equally important and because there's such a small number that make it into the pros, you want to be able to leverage the educational opportunity and Purdue is such a great and it keeps going up in the rankings like the pharmacy schools top five, Cranhurts improved. So that's I think the message I would give give it 150 percent and make friends because when you graduate, your ability to network because my career, networking has been the most important thing to be able to call somebody up and say, hey, what about this? So network, make friends, excel in academics. And if you're on the team, 150 percent. Well, I agree with Don. But the mindset of the athletes today are different, especially, you know, coming in because they all have ambitions. They're all going to play professional football. I mean, that's just what they would think, but it's not going to happen. And so you do have to prepare. He said 150 percent on both the field. And it's absolutely true. I don't even say I would advise them to. Give maybe this doesn't sound right, but to give more to the academic side. I did because I didn't have any idea I was going to get a professional football. These the odds are so stacked against you. But they they think that they are. And I think they have a lot of disappointing players that they're not going to make it. But there's something about Purdue that you really gravitate to the education and the academics. And I think that's really was vital for your success outside of Purdue. I want to go back because I just find it so interesting that you didn't think you were going to play in the NFL and you had 12 seasons in the NFL. What was that moment like when you were like, hey, maybe I do have a shot at this? Well, it didn't happen to my senior year. I really didn't. I came from Clemence, Indiana. It was a basketball state. It was a basketball school. The best season we ever had was my senior year, only seven and three. And so, I mean, I played both offense and defense. I really didn't. I was a good quarterback. I wasn't a great quarterback. I was a good athlete and I was willing to learn. And of course, Purdue was going on the tradition that Purdue had in playing quarterback. It was like, I agree with Don. I mean, you can't ignore that. So I didn't know how good I was going to be. And I didn't really find out until maybe my senior year. You know, did I have a future in the NFL? It just happened and developed that way. So that's what happened. So I can tell that your coach means a lot to you both. What would you say the number one lesson or or thing that he instilled in you both was? We were playing Northwestern. This is a quick story. But I think it's so relevant because it says who Jack Malikoff was. Score is 42-6. I was a backup. I wanted to be the starter, right? Everybody does. So coach says, hey, Donny, go in. He called me Donny. Go in now. So I went in and I went back and I could have run the ball and I tried to sneak it in and the linebacker picked it off. So I'm thinking 42-7, no big deal. So I'm coming off the field on like the 30-yard line. And I see Jack running down the sideline. He had his London Fog coat on in his hat and always dressed really nice. He grabs me and used a few explicit, I'm not going to say what they were. And he grabbed me and he says, look, if you ever give up your own personal pride, no matter what the score is, you can never do that. So most coaches would have just said, oh, no big deal. You go off the field, they patch on the back. But Jack cared about me. I got angry, by the way, when he did that because I felt bad. But what he did for me, he did it because he cared about me. And that's the way he treated the players. He was tough as nails, but everybody knew that he cared about you. And that created such a spirit within the organization. So that's that's kind of the story I remember about Jack. Yeah, and I remember that too. And I thought, oh, gee, you know, I felt so bad for Don. After that happened is like he just trying to be a quarterback. You know, but exactly like Don said, he had a lesson to tell Don. And the message got the message again. He actually said to me, if you ever do that again, you won't play ping pong for me. Yeah, right. So I have that message, a lot in clear, but it's about personal pride. Yeah, right. And always expect the most from yourself, not the least. And so he was an amazing coach. Part of all these little stories are why he was such a great coach. So we talked about leadership a little bit. What do you think Mitch Daniels has has done when it comes to leadership at Purdue University? I think he's been absolutely phenomenal. I know it's been 10 years holding tuition flat. I think his creative program on how to deal with student loans is transformative and more and more universities to look at it based on your income and how you modulate what you pay. Everybody thinks he's such a strong leader. I we're very fortunate to have him. I thought he would have been a great presidential candidate when he was governor of Indiana. So I think we're very, very fortunate to have him. I agree. I mean, he's there'll be a time where he's going to step down. He's going to be very difficult to replace. But he's made his impact here and we're very, very fortunate to have had him as president and still have him right now. But I mean, there'll be a day when he's going to do something different. What is the Purdue community and that that Boilermaker spirit? If you had to summarize, what does that mean to you both? You know, that's that's a nice question. I don't think that was on the list. But what does it mean as well? Well, I can tell you when you come back to to college and you stop at the chocolate shop because we know her show and Mary quite well. We used to know when it was Dirty Harry's, by the way. Oh, OK. And you go and have a beer and it's the day before game and the students are there and the vitality and the enthusiasm. And it's contagious. It just fills you up with spirit. And and I love to see that. Now, this year with the winning team, it was a lot better than it's been. So I think it's it's it's inspirational. It makes you feel good, makes you feel proud of being part of Purdue again. And when you see when we see our teammates, it's a renewal, a renewal of friendship. Yeah, unfortunately, there's few of us left. Yeah, I mean, every year, we lost we lost a great one. Leroy really did. Yeah. Yeah, well, tell us about Leroy and what it was like, you know, with him as as your teammate. Well, Leroy instead of talking about him as maybe the goat, right? I'd rather talk about him as a man as a person, because his value system was impeccable. He was inspirational to everybody he talked to. And one of the speeches yesterday just told it all. It said Leroy was kind of person no matter how bad you were feeling. When you talk to him and you left, you felt good. And he was a Christian, very religious, spiritual guy. He touched so many people like to. Yeah, I just yesterday, they did that video of Leroy at the brunch. And there was one picture of Leroy, myself, Neil Armstrong, and I think it was Gene Cern. This was after the game, Texas A&M. We won 24 to 20. It was my first game was, you know, college. And, you know, the thing I think back there I am shaking the hands with the first band that, you know, landed on the moon. I mean, really. And it just, I don't know, that that was a real special moment for me. And I had completely forgot about it, but it was I visualized it again. And I was like, wow, you know, this was that was a special photo. But Leroy was, besides everything Don said about Leroy is, you know, is accurate. You felt good about him. The fact that he wasn't there yesterday. I felt it. And I felt a hole there. Yeah, yeah. But a part of Key's success. A lot of people don't know this. Most quarterbacks don't like to block too much. When we ran that Leroy, give the ball to Leroy Toss and he'd let it. He was like a pulling guard. So he blocked. I mean, he was part of the formula for Leroy's success. And he really went around the corner and cleaned it out. Yeah. You want to hear a story about that, how that happened? They didn't tell me, well, they didn't tell either one of us. Okay, you, you pitched the ball to Leroy and then you round in front of, you know, and you block or just kind of get in the way. Well, it was in, I think it was in one of our spring practices. I was in, did the toss sweep to Leroy. So I go around and there's one of the defensive ends that just cracked down on me and just lit me up, you know, it looked like I blocked him, but I guess got really smoked, you know, and coached them all jumped up. Way to go, Mike. You know, they didn't call it by name, they called it 15 or whatever. That was that was how we were described. Way to go 15, you know, and I thought, OK, then I go back to the huddle and here's, here's the, here's the hog. He says, way to go, Flip. I said, oh, thanks a lot. I thought he was giving me kudos for doing this. He said, no, you idiot. He said, they're going to expect me to do that. Yeah, exactly. I was not the best blocking quarterback. Yeah, but it just was part of it, you know, I enjoy doing it. Nobody would ask you to do that today as a quarterback. It just like, but again, I play defense and it wasn't anything for me to you know, get in the way of somebody block them. It was kind of fun. Did Leroy have a special nickname like you two had? Not really, you know, Leroy was Leroy. OK. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. When you said Leroy, you knew who you were talking about. Yeah. So when you see your teammates back here back at homecoming, do you guys reminisce and share the story? The stories keep getting better. And then the same stories get better. It's like this, you know, you go fishing, you catch a fish this big. They get definitely. But oh, yeah, that's why we'd love to see each other, because oh, there's so many stories about Coach Malikov. We had a very, very distinguished team physician named Dot Combs. There's a lot of stories about him and then a lot of stories about the players. Yeah. And it's so much fun to reminisce. And that's why it's great to come back for homecoming. Yeah, there's a lot of stories you forgot about. And somebody jogs your messages. You don't want to remember. Yeah, you block them out. Yeah. Did any of your family members go to Purdue after you guys left? No? Well, that would have been part of my story. I said earlier, I had a IU alum of dentists on my right. And then there was a Purdue guy on. Well, my stepfather was a Purdue graduate. So not that it tipped the scales, but it certainly had had an influence on my decision. And it's funny, too, because after games, Win or lose, my stepfather would come over. They went to all the home games and most of the ones on the road. And we won more than we lost. He'd always shake my hand. And he'd always have a $20 bill. I think it was $100 bill. I don't think it was $100, but it was a $20 bill. You know, it was like, you know, it was my step, stepdad, you know. So, but he, for some reason, he'd always, he'd always know I'd have a little bit of cash on me. It was like, where'd you get that? You know, $20, you know, it's like $20 is like a lot of money for us back then. But you'd have to order the pizza that night. Yeah, he's buying. No, what has Purdue meant to you both and how has it impacted your lives? How do you describe that one? Well, I don't know. I think I did talk about the foundation, you know, championship team and pharmacy school. And I've been able to springboard those leverage that and been a successful entrepreneur in healthcare. And importantly, work on therapies and technology that really helps promote patient care. I mean, save lives. Yeah. I mean, so that basis has given me that skill set to be able to go out and make that happen. And what does it mean to you that you have such like a meaningful career path that you're actually impacting others, other people's lives? Well, it's, I kind of like to look at it this way because I've started 12 companies in health care and I'm still on boards and stuff. So I still invest in private companies, but I only get involved in projects where I can put money in my pocket and put something in my heart. Like I'm working on a drug for autism right now. And these kids, Fragile X in particular, they're the most extreme case of autism and there's no therapies to treat them. And we have two that we're working on. So for me to be able to be involved in that, even if I didn't make any money, if I could help these kids, you know, that that would fill me up inside. So I've been blessed. I've been very fortunate. And he's really good at what he does. And he works too hard. He's down here in Florida now. He and I have always bass fished together on Lake Okeechobee. But since he's been down here, we haven't gotten to the legal. So we're going to we're going to make that change pretty soon here. I mean, a cure for prostate cancer would be pretty good. Yeah, I mean, yeah, the things that you've been doing is incredible. Well, thank you so much. Appreciate that. Is there anything else that you want to share with the listeners, the loyal football fans? I would say hell, Purdue. But yeah, I mean, what what can you say? Our experience at Purdue, both of us, it's hard to describe the results. What makes Purdue special? I think it attracts the people with a lot of character and the good people. But when they walk away, they're they're much better. They're more developed. They're enthusiastic to, you know, attack a career here and there. This guy's done phenomenal. It's funny because he he starts talking to to to me about the projects that he's doing. And he gets into the scientific mode and he starts describing things to me like like he's I think he's picking in tongues as far as I consider it. But it's amazing. I said, is that you walk? He said, he's done well. I'm proud of him. Well, thank you. You have to. I'm proud of you. I used to go to the locker room after his game sometimes and always felt so proud of him. Yeah, did you go to any? Yeah, what was it like to support him, you know, in this top tier league? Well, I wanted to get in fights when I heard the booze. Yeah, but but I used to go in a locker room after the game and met Peyton and yeah, I was so proud of him. I mean, I really was proud of him. And I would go to some of the games with his wife. Carol would go with me. And it was an exciting, exciting thing to do. Absolutely. Supporting your friend. Yeah. You guys both support each other, I can tell. Well, what we did was before the season started, we were going on a fishing trip and we'd spend the whole week in the boat and we'd be talking about what are the things that are going to be really be important for you to make this team what it can be. And we would talk about that and we talk about he's a strong leader. I mean, Mike's a leader. He was a leader through example. He was in a big word guy. But on the field, he'd led by example, like leading Leroy Keys around the end and blocking three people, you know. So we would do that every year before the season. And one year he was negotiating a contract. So we talked about how you're going to get the deal done. You know, one of those things. So, yeah, we've kept this great friendship. He's my best friend. And we love each other. And you're going to make me cry. No, you guys have been so fun. I don't know if I'm allowed to say it. One of my favorite interviews. Well, thank you. You have been an amazing interviewer. Well, thank you. Because you made us feel very comfortable and relaxed. And hopefully you got the story. I got some stories. I got some tears well enough. I got some emotions. I almost lost it there when I thought about Jack walking in the locker room. I've forgotten about that one. Yeah. Yeah. But his love for the players, that's why he got everything out of everybody. Because everybody knew how much he loved you. Well, thank you. Thank you guys. Thank you. We really enjoyed it. Thank you.