 Welcome to InterGEO TV studio at InterGEO 2018 in Frankfurt joining me is Dr. Georg Schroet co-founder and general manager of Nevis Thanks a lot. Welcome. Thanks. BIM has really been taking off in the last few years That's our topic today, but it's still mostly limited to the design phase Why do you think adoption of BIM throughout the entire building life cycle has been slower? Yeah, I think BIM is like in its in its core it's really about a single source of truth to have everyone working together and to collaborate and I think we did a good job what industry has done a really good job around making that possible for the for the design in the Planning phase where CED experts are sitting together with the architects engineering teams and collaborate and find a joint understanding of what They really want to do now. However, once we start building the construction. We are in the field We have people that are not really CED experts and they basically they they find the reality and then a There's there will be mistakes always and there will be workarounds, but I have a hard time believing that those people will update the BIM model with their mistakes with their workarounds to reflect the real state of the building and So this leaves me sort of say the point that it's still about collaboration and it's still about a single source of truth But maybe a CED drawings are not the right medium to do that So we have to open ourselves a little bit towards that and not be limited to that view and then if you look So to say at the phase where BIM could be yeah, at least as valuable and Generate a lot of money would be at the operation phase where the facility managers come in But today they don't really have an S build model, right? So there's nothing that they can rely on because it's not as built and it's also a little bit complex for them Because they are not really CED experts either and I think at that point We again have to look on how we can actually provide a medium that is reliable and easy to use for the facility managers And once we open our mind and not constrain ourselves to CED, I think we will see a lot of growth in that area On the other hand the benefits of BIM are becoming increasingly well known But many buildings do not have BIM models Yeah, if BIM was not part of the design phase of building construction So the question is how can BIM be brought to existing buildings where BIM was not part of the design phase Right there's a lot of buildings obviously in the world that did not already start their construction with BIM So all the existing buildings pretty much and this is maybe the even larger market for us because a lot of renovations Re-usage is happening and at that point. Well, you have to start with collecting the reality, right? It's there's no way around this and people have done this right they use laser scanners to do this However, the time and money required to do that to map a whole building It's all its detail and that's what you need for BIM is almost prohibitively expensive So you you'd rarely do this and I think you have seen around today already a lot of systems That try to do this a lot faster than it was possible in the past And the key word is of course in a mobile mapping systems here Now once sort of say the capturing of the reality is done or it can be done much more easier The question is now about the modeling part which is at least as time-consuming and complex as the capturing and There's actually a question of whether we really need to model everything Yeah, or whether maybe even a 2d model is good enough for a lot of things and then combining it together with The reality capture data directly so making the reality capture data Accessible without massive GPUs on anything like that so that you can walk around as if you were there To be added with a 2d floor plan sounds to me like a very good solution to many stakeholders that can work together and collaborate As a matter of fact SAP and archivist like facility management providers did already Integrate for instance with one of our products Point clouds are a valuable source of building information But they are usually limited to professionals working with the models and building plans What can be done to make point cloud data more consumer-friendly and enable widespread adoption? Yeah, so I think point clouds are basically Like the data that we acquire not the data that we should give to everyone, right? I don't provide people with individual measurements and everything like that So people want to see like they want to have an idea of how the building is and like really is in every detail And but they don't want to go to the individual measurements, of course And I think point clouds are just sort of say an intermediary product to get to the realization or them like the Yeah, the data that the people should actually consume So I think what what can be done today already fairly easy is to have something like a virtual walkthrough where you can Just walk as you were on site and not just fly like a plane or try to maneuver completely free in space You can just walk through that space and I think this is something that we also try to reflect in our in our software in our browser based software and The second part is about Making that data accessible by being able to search on that data And I think there will be a quite a few things in the future that try to interpret the data and not just only have geometry and In pictures, but also have yeah meta data assigned to that it can be automatically generated Now the topic mobile scanning. Yeah, it's key to scaling data structure But data accuracy is an important consideration What is slam by the way? Yeah, and how is it being used to bridge this gap? Yeah So more mapping in general is super important as as you mentioned to to scale up and to be much faster in acquisition of the Data, and I think we see more and more people being able to Yeah, you make use of this data. However, so far it really has been limited to the experts now with more mapping systems There is multiple different ways of mapping mobile But I think the one that is most advanced is the one that is based on slam Which is called simultaneous localization at mapping and you can imagine it like basically an automated surveying Where you constantly look in your in your environment with hundreds if not thousands of measurements point per second or actually hundreds of measurements point per second and constantly observing your environment and in the moment you start doing this you already have like a first let's say a static laser scan You did that so you continue while you're moving building multiple times Like a like to let's say a hundred times per second you're building these static laser scanners And you match all of them together and by doing that you basically have an idea of how you have moved while you collected all those static laser scans And by algorithms you can now combine these individual scans together to a consolidated and very accurate map So there has been a lot of improvement a lot of companies have raised and that provides lamb And it is like the early days where laser scanning came in and now it's about to differentiate What kind of slam are the people providing and the the magic number here So to say is still missing where so far was just millimeters or is it how accurate is it? What's the density how many points per second there? There's new numbers so to say in slam to compare them one of the most important one is the amount of drift that you accumulate over a certain length and I think two grades to surveying grades lamb You have to be in the range of less than zero point one percent of drift means if you go a hundred meters The arrow has to be zero point one percent of a hundred meters of drift And then you can still do loop closures and combine it with With total stations to get an even higher accuracy, but that's kind of the level very very few Companies are capable of doing that these days and it's important for surveyor to ask about these specific questions What technology trends do you see emerging in indoor spatial intelligence over the next few years? Yeah, so I think there's two parts first of all making This this this potential of reality capturing Really accessible to everyone so far we are mapping gigantic data fantastic data in the end We hand over a 2d floor plan that cannot be the result, right? That's not reflecting what the capabilities of all of us are so we want to be able to transport this data to everyone And our interviewer for instance is one product that gives the old stakeholders the accessibility or the access to this powerful data By just going in the browser and virtually walking through this site So the accessibility is one part of this data making people work together on reality data The second part is certainly about extending the scope of mapping and we will see a lot more mapping in the future It's not only about having 2d floor plans. It's about collaboration in factories on construction sites We see that a lot of momentum from Factory providers that say I want to have an up-to-date model of my factory to be able to plan What I have to change to improve efficiency and here you don't map like once every two years you map like once a month And that obviously is only possible with more scalable mapping systems. The third dimension that I see is That it's not only about the capture data. It's also about interpreting that data analyzing this With the recent advances in AI algorithms We are able today already to analyze these environments and to provide let's say a route or understand Where what does what kind of rooms do we have in this building without? Necessity necessity to annotate these things. You can just query for that in our in our tools Finally heads and let's have a look on your company Navis What technology has Navis developed to support the widespread adoption of indoor spatial intelligence? Yeah So as I mentioned, I think the m6 is a really Really amazing product because we really brought the slam technology now to surveying levels. So before We had given a lot on improving the slam incrementally But now we have made a really big step so that you can map on any terrain or any surface in 6d That's six degrees of freedom and go over cobblestone rams anything like that. And of course this extends the amount of Use cases that you can apply mobile mapping to a lot and at the same time you provide the surveying radar courtesy Now with the indoor view of this here We are launching a new version that allows you to bring anyone scan data inside a browser-based tool to make this Accessible to all the stakeholders. So in terms, let's go back to this digital factory example They will scan with an m6 But they also scan or already have scanned with a farro like or whatever the product might be and now you bring all This data together and allow the people to discuss certain issues That is done on real up-to-date and detailed data and that enables really true collaboration So thanks a lot and have a successful time at Intergeo. Thank you so much