 Alex, let's talk radio and Radio Shack, radio token, Shack token, taking an iconic American brand and making it move into the crypto world, which nobody's really done yet. Yeah, that's always the first. That's right. So we're co-founders on the project, and I just wanted to explain because for those of you who don't know Dr. Alex Mayer, he in another life was a NASA rocket scientist, actually a rocket scientist, got his PhD in, you know, evolutionary engineering, systems engineering. And so sometimes when you talk about radio, you lose people. I know. I know. So I said, we're going to do an interview where we're going to do the old classic who, what, where, while I win. And one of the things that I just want to start with is because we have this, there's the starfish topology. You all can read the white paper. It's at Radio Shack.org. But let's just zoom out, right? You've got the youngest billionaires in history being formed crypto. I just read about another and Vitalik, of course, was paid by Peter Thiel, the billionaire not to go to college, gave him a hundred grand at 19, said, do something else productive. Vitalik, the 2014 sat there and made this little known thing called the Ethereum blockchain became a billionaire by the time he's 20, 21. So there's just all this innovation recently England just gave up regulating, I mean, they're still kind of regulated crypto, but Boris Johnson's like, crypto, we're all in countries and whole countries are going in still controversial in some places. So we zoom out at the entire environment of crypto. What we find is it reminds me of this, what they call the Pleistocene, the Canberra, sorry, the Cambrian explosion, where in human evolution, a hundred million species, you know, came into pass and now most of them are gone. And do you think that's a good analogy for where crypto is a lot of projects most going to disappear? For sure. 95% of them probably. And it's natural. I mean, you have a lot of people innovating and, you know, as we know, a lot of ideas aren't that good, right? Better ideas come and kill the previous one. That's actually, you mentioned evolution, that's how evolution works. So you have a lot of crossovers and mutations of different, you know, gene pools. And then the new ones, a lot of times sometimes are better than the old ones and they replace them. So that's the idea. You have, like I said, you got your PhD in evolutionary, evolutionary algos, applying it to engineering systems. So mimicking evolution in an engineering system, which is part of what has been done with radio and the radio token is how do we evolve the old school cryptocurrencies and move them into the new school because people don't realize you want to, you don't want to be first, first loses in any evolutionary system or economic system. Friendster was before Myspace. Myspace was before Facebook, Facebook won. Now TikTok is beating Facebook. You know, the game never stops. So let's just stop there by a little side note. The founder, the first person who created Victoria's Secret, he's not the one that made it successful and sadly he killed himself because of the depression of, you know, that also happened with Friendster. The first social media platform, I read that the founder ended up basically giving up on life and becoming an alcoholic and just gave up because he's like, I didn't win and somebody else won. So I mean, what are the odds that the first permutation of things in the new world is the correct one. It's very little. So the next iteration has to be better. So you take the first one, you improve on it, you come over to the next generation, next generation. Yes. Yeah. Now, let's get right into radio. Radio is a token that's not just a conjecture token. That's what I call it. Where you're going, this, you know why this token's valuable? Because someone else is willing to pay more for it than I am. That's what Warren Buffett calls the greater sucker theory, you know, you buy a house in a bubble, 2007, you're like, I'll pay a million for this house because someone else will pay me one and a half million. It's not worth a million, but I think there's someone dumber than me. There's a lot of happening in crypto. Radio is a token that actually runs something. So what's the simplest way to explain what radio does in and of itself? Yeah. So think of decentralized exchanges, swaps. As a place where people like, you know, back in the days, early days of developing the economy, you had, let's say, you know, wool and I had wood and they wanted to do a trade. Like a barter, right? So initially it was basically, okay, I have this and you have that. I will give you this in return for that. That's the best way to think about decentralized swap before Radio Shack. So it was basic. I have USDC. I want ETH. We swap. You have USDC and you want Matic. You know, the swap for Matic, for example, another token is not directly available. So you go on one of the decentralized exchanges, you swap USDC for Matic for Ethereum that will then get swapped for Matic. It would be as if like, I have gold, you have wood, but you don't want gold. So I have to go to someone else, swap gold for something else and end up with silver and silver for wood. So that's the best way to think about decentralized swap ecosystem before Radio Shack. So if you look at any decentralized swaps, which by the way, decentralized swaps are important in the sense that for any economy to thrive, there needs to be the act of trading, right? So trade is essential for blockchain to succeed. And any economic system. It's like, it's not even blockchain, anything before the centralized swaps, there was centralized swaps, right? Centralized swaps is like a, basically, let's say, Binance or Coinbase, you come in with your token and you sell it to Fiat, right? And you want something else, then you use that Fiat to buy something else. So it was basically Fiat currency was sitting in the middle years ago. This is what you had to do. You had to convert when he says Fiat, he means basically US dollars. That's correct. So you had to say, I have Bitcoin, I want Ethereum, I sell my Bitcoin, turn it into dollars, I take the dollars, I get your Ethereum. Exactly. So it's relatively inefficient because the whole point of crypto is an alternative system that doesn't always have to hit Fiat US dollars. And it's not, and it's centralized. So there's a company, it's not us that takes a fee, takes a fee. Sometimes they're not fair to choose to list this token or not list that token and all that, right? So decentralized swap was a first good attempt at taking that concept of trading or swapping and making it decentralized. So it was, I mean, it is necessary for blockchain to succeed. There needs to be a permissionless system for people to swap tokens, basically trade, right? And there's big ones now, like Uniswap, SushiSwap. SushiSwap, they have names, sushi.com doesn't take you to food. That's right. They bought it and made it. It takes you to a crypto decentralized exchange. I know Dexis. I never understood why they named them after food like pancake swap. Yes, there's pancake swap and sushi swap, Uniswap named after Unicycle. No, that's not really what it is, but I'll just call it that. So now one problem solved, which means now we can do trading decentralized on chain, but it created another problem, which is there is no fiat to be the counterparty. So then you went back, you gained something, but you lost something. You gained decentralization, but you also lost efficiency because all of a sudden things become, you know, you give me, I want wood from you. I have to trade my gold for silver, you give silver too. So it's like everything became a swap game, right? Yes. So that could be inefficient too, because there's small trading fees. Right, because there's the concept of slippage. Yes. If you have wood, Suzie has silver and I have gold. She may not really want your wood, so she doesn't give you the best rate for it. So it's like, basically, you remove the concept of there is no fiat in the centralized world. So everything is just hopping from one crypto asset to another to another in a randomized way. And on top of it, to enable these swaps in a decentralized exchange, you have to lock up, you know, USDC with ETH, OK? So they're sitting in the smart contract. Then you lock up ETH with something else, and you lock up that other token, the other token in a completely randomized way. Right, which brings a whole, like we said, inefficiencies. Exactly. Think inefficiencies. You want crypto to work well, it needs to be highly efficient. Yes, exactly. And then you see these protocols are bragging about their TVL, which is Total Value Lock, which is how much crypto is actually locked inside the smart contract to enable these swaps. But the truth is, it's not how much crypto is locked. It's like, how efficient is that being used? So you can lock up a lot of crypto, but use it very inefficiently, right? So enter RadioShack. RadioShack has a simple but very powerful advantage that manifests itself in multiple ways. The first thing is, OK, we understood there is no concept of fiat as being the kind of the medium of exchange that things convert to and then convert back to another token. So why don't we first create that? So it basically created the first use of RadioToken, is basically acts as the counter token to all the tokens in the swap. Instead of US dollars. Exactly, because there is no US dollars. And other swap, the first generation of decentralized swaps, these bartering kind of exchanges didn't have that. Exactly. Basically, the first version is like, OK, from wood goes to silver, from silver goes to copper, from copper goes to gold. That's the first generation. In our system, we basically created that medium that sits in the middle. And things convert to radio and then convert to other things. So it's a concept that existed since the beginning of the invention of money, except the decentralized version of it. And the first version of the crypto decentralized forgot to study their history books and look deeply at the economics. Because actually, in a sense, historians, financial historians will look back and be like, they made a big mistake. Right. They created an inefficient, they basically, like I said, big leapfrog forward with decentralized swaps in the sense that they created. It was better than just having central. Exactly. It's permissionless and it has all the efficiencies and it's all about. Anybody in the world could do it. You had centralized exchanges, had a lot of government regulations which were supposed to help. But as we know, bureaucrats tend to not help. Yeah. And it's also not peer to peer. It's up here to peer. So decentralized exchanges is peer to peer between smart contracts and people who provide liquidity and people who are swapping is a completely peer to peer decentralized system, except they didn't think of the medium of exchange in what is a decentralized version of it. Does that make sense? So that's the first and most important function. So principle one differentiator is the radio exchange, the swap, has something central that can be trusted, which is why it's important to also use a name that people recognize. It's not just crypto D gens as they call themselves, but also people worldwide. People go, OK, Radio Shack's behind it. This gives me some. Radio Shack, of course, gone through a lot of iterations. The main Radio Shack brand, which we purchased in one of our holding companies years ago. This was America's first tech company in many ways. Before there was Apple, there was Radio Shack. 20s and 30s and the 40s and the 50s and 60s. And so, OK, so you create this token called Radio. Yeah, which is the counterparty. Instead of having to go wood to silver, silver to gold, you go wood to radio and then radio to gold. Yes, and everything is like that, right? So it's like there is no random jumping. Also, the other thing that it does, then it kind of has multiple other benefits that come as natural outcome of having a more logical system. Yes. So another positive outcome is that you don't have to lock up a lot of crypto assets in your system to enable efficient swaps because the swap path is very predictable. So you don't need to have 50 trillion dollars of TVL. Yeah, let's go to gold, wood to blah, blah, blah. Gold to randomly link things together in a completely. I mean, that's maximum. The term for it is maximum entropy system, which means that system that has literally no rhyme and reason. Yes. Just people randomly. So you're saying the current dex is would almost fall under this category of maximum, maximum entropy. And again, we're not meaning to disparage people because there's a lot of pioneers that did this and they did their best. But as evolution goes, things get better. You don't want to be driving in the first car. They sound cool to have a Model T. You don't want to be in a Model T, right? It goes 20 miles an hour and if you hit the brakes and it happens to work half the time, the brake didn't work, you know, it's made out of cardboard or whatever you shoot through the front of the thing. There's no seat belts. So look at cars now. Tesla is running on solar power. And the first one was the first car was very inefficient, although we look back and say, we're glad somebody built. Imagine being in the first airplane. Talk about an evolutionary system. You didn't want to be part of the process. Henry Wright, the Wright brothers. OK, so this is the core differentiator, that it's a logical system to barter. That's not the technical word, but for people watching, that is confusing. The old school, the farmer brings the pig, that carpenter brings, you know, the cabinets, right? And you're like, I'll give you a pig for a cabinet. Once again, oftentimes, the cabinet maker even want a pig, right? So that's where that's actually if there's a great book, the story of money, you know, that's where money came from because now you're at a cross. Now you're at an impasse. OK, I'm the farmer of the pig. I consider it valuable, so I'm not going to give it away. The carpenter comes with the cabinets, but the pig farmer goes, I already have cabinets. Right. What I really want, my wife is pregnant. She wants some chocolate. Yes. And what the cabinet guy goes, I don't I don't like I don't eat pork. I want a pizza. Yeah. So where money came in and in different cultures, you know, in Mongolia, they did tea leaves. Right. In the Native Americans did a type of seashell. Wampum, they called them, all these different medians. And it was the place where we all agreed. I like that that the Aztecs use cacao beans, basically chocolate. An interesting story in the history of money is the Spaniards, of course, conquered Central America through thievery and other things. And one of the things they did, they took these cacao beans because they realized it was valuable. The Aztecs said, let's take it back to Spain. So they're going back to Spain in a boat. Pirates capture the boat. They thought it was rabbit manure, so they threw it overboard like a hundred million dollars. There's a classic example. If there's not an agreed on medium to a pirate, they're like, we don't want cacao beans. We think it's rabbit. So we throw it over. The Aztecs, of course, would have had a heart attack because somebody threw a billion dollars over to the ocean. So that's where money began to evolve. I've read in a book on James Garfield, who was the president who was assassinated in the late 1800s. You know, when you read his inaugural speech, he was like, we're still piecing our country together. And one of the things still being pieced together was agreed upon currency because he was in the Civil War. Right. Eighteen sixties. Every every state had their own money caused problems. It was inefficient. Right. Like the current crypto world is. It's like every state has their own things. So radio's goal is to say, let's create radio. Yeah. We're going to. We're going to agree on it. Yes. And it's and it's on a blockchain. OK, so it's that it's basically the token that everything exchanges to and from. Yes. And it's done in the same like if somebody is going from one token to another, it gets exchanged to radio and immediately gets exchanged back for the other token. So the price of it doesn't even matter. So it's always an efficient swap on top of it. This is where I lose a lot of people because a lot of people are interested in graph theory. So in graph theory, there's this concept of diameter of the graph, meaning from one point to another point, what's the average number of edges or hops that is happens in the middle? So if you're bartering things randomly, it can be four swaps. OK, but with Radio Shack is always is a very pretty particular path. It goes boom, boom. You're reducing the. So yes, yes, you make it. Actually, you reduce it. You reduce the diameter and everything becomes actually two hops. Yes. And then what we do is that it is coded so that each hop is very efficient. It's only point one percent fee. So you have two very efficient hops compared to other exchanges where it can be multiple hops and each hop most of the time is point three percent. Yes. So you're saying that transaction cost is lower, is lower, which attracts new people to start swapping on the radio. Yes. So that's so if you if you if you want to like enumerate all the advantages, it is more efficient in terms of usage of TVL because it's not maximum entropy systems. There's rhyme and reason to how the how the liquidity are organized. OK, one, again, on chain, peer to peer, all the smart contracts, no central company. But it is the blockchain. The basically the smart contracts are doing the right thing. The trades are being routed efficiently. So better utilization of TVL to better swap fees, meaning the end user gets a better deal. Yes. OK. And then that attracts more use and the more people who use it, it becomes even more efficient. Exactly. Exactly. Third, which is, you know, another advantage that comes just naturally out of having a more logical organization of liquidity is you can add another token into the system very efficiently by pairing it to radio and don't and it immediately becomes tradeable to all of our tokens. Very efficient. Right. OK. And that has multiple real world advantages. One of them is that Radio Shack can easily support a startup, for example, that has a new token. OK. And if you go to Uniswap, a lot of times what people do, they have a new token. They have to go pair it with, let's say, a stablecoin. They pair it with USDC. That's a combo of millions of dollars. Millions of USDC. Which is effectively dollars. Exactly. Yes. And also, they pair it with ETH so that they have two links so that they have efficient swaps. And then, you know, that's a lot of money for a startup to a lot of times comes up with. And also, even then, it's not guaranteed that swapping to USDC is actually the right way. I was actually looking at a project, Klima, a couple of days ago on Polygon on Sushi and I was looking at their liquidity. So if you swap from DAI, it is inefficient. You swap from USDC, it's efficient. So you have to be an expert and go look at the liquidity, figure out, OK, so how is this paired to figure out what is the best way to get a token in Sushi, OK? Yes. Well, most people aren't like that. Yes. They just want it to work. So with us, the way it works is that a project comes in. One, they don't have to come up with a lot of capital. They just pair it with radio. Yes, which makes radio, in effect, an incubator slash accelerator of new projects in the world. New ideas, new projects. Essentially, we had somebody fly in from thousands of miles away because they were like, we want to stick a token on here because it's going to save us millions of dollars. Exactly. So you could create a proprietary token, which creates, makes Radio Shack even more valuable because there's things there you can only get there. Imagine if you're going back to 1500s or as a town where there's a barter and in that town is the only place you can find silver, right? Right. So because they have access to this one silver. And so you're the pig farmer. Like, I don't want the kitchen cabinets. I want the silver. That silver is only in Westphalia or something in Europe. Yeah. And so now you have to do weird things with Radio Shack. It's just connection is logical. You just connect it to the counter party, not counter party, counter token, the token that was medium of exchange, which is radio. And then with that, you know that it'll work. Yes. So that's another advantage. A third advantage is for people who trade, let's say, in and out of Ethereum. Let's say you like to do swing trade and you wait until Ethereum goes low, you buy, then you wait until it goes up, you sell, and then maybe you go into, I don't know, another token, one is low and then go momentum trading, swing trading, whatever. So what is the main, if you want to do that in a decentralized world, what is the problem with that? One, OK, so you do that. And every time you do it, the trade to and from the token you want to might be multiple hops. But each hop might be expensive, 0.3%. Yes. And it's like you have a lot of slippage and you have a lot of trading fee on the way in and out. Yes. Which makes arbitraging not work. Exactly. Makes swing momentum trading. It's hard. It makes it harder. Yeah, you got to pull. There has to be enough, you're taking a lot of transactions, a little piece. Exactly. And if every one of those, it's kind of like what people criticize the Ethereum blockchain because they're like, you can't do small transaction things like NFDs because if the gas fee is $200 and you're trying to buy a $100 NFD, it changes the whole economy. Exactly right. It's like very important to for someone who goes in and out, you have to understand, OK, I have all these bear obstacles in front of me, gas fee you mentioned, but on top of it, you have how many hops? Was it slippage? Yes. And then also it's like if Robinhood costs you, Robinhood app or Schwab app charges you $600 a stock. By the way, it used to be that. That allowed me, Schwab used to charge a lot of money. For transactions. Exactly. And then the new evolution, now there's free trades because they got more efficient. Capital efficiency is what creates wealth at the end of the day. You know, we have one of our mentors is a one of Nobel Prize professor, Christopher Pissarides at London School of Economics. And, you know, when you study economics at its core, it's going, capital is always going to move to the place where it's more efficiently deployed. And so at the end of the day, why we're excited about Rated Shack, why Rated Shack Exchange was created is because in a logical world, it should be every less logical. Now, and remember, the world's not logical, but money is more logical than you think. I mean, in general, especially in something like crypto blockchain, you have crypto assets gravitate towards the most efficient frictionless place. That's why they have aggregators. Aggregators are kind of like Expedia. You want to buy a ticket to go from London, New York. You go to Expedia. It shows you all the airlines. And you most of the time don't care if it's Delta, British Airways, you're looking for the cheapest ones. Expedia and some of these companies created a more efficient world. And so those are aggregators, which Rated Shack is beginning to work with some of the big aggregators. That's right. So I mean, the other problem for traders using other decentralized exchanges is that let's say you go in and out of ETH, and ETH is paired very efficiently with USDC. So you convert, you sell to USDC when ETH goes up, and you buy ETH with USDC when it goes down. But let's say there's another token that you're also trading, but that thing is not efficiently paired with USDC. So when you come out of ETH, you have to go into another token that that other token then gets traded for the new token efficiently. So you have this problem of always thinking, OK, what do I sell into? What token do I sell my tokens to? And then when I want to buy, what do I use to buy constantly? A good example of that, let's say you wanted to do swing trading in the world of bartering. So you were like, you know what? I'm going to swing trade gold and silver and pigs. And then you're like, OK, swing trade means buying and selling, but you buy and sell to what? Let's say you pick wood, OK? You say, when gold goes up, I sell my gold and get wood. When gold goes down, I use wood to buy gold. And then you do that with silver and pigs. But the problem is the pig farmer may not efficiently swap. So you have always this problem, OK, so what currency or what asset do I sit in between trades? And that's why fiat was invented. And that's where a little bit crypto threw the baby out with the bathwater. They're like the modern economic system is broken. US government's printing too many dollars. Sure, Weimar Republic might be repeated. My grandma lived through that. She's from Germany. But you shouldn't throw the baby out with the bathwater. You're going to need a centralized token. And in many ways, you see the big cryptos. There is a centralization of market cap and volume around the big ones like the big coins. And that's going to happen. No matter how decentralized people try to make things, it's unique because you have to have trust. And money's built around trust. When the state of Kentucky had their own money, the state of West Virginia had their own money, and a state of Georgia, you might be like, I'll trust West Virginia, right? So I'm going to use the Georgia. And then there's a scandal in Georgia. And you're like, I don't trust Georgia anymore. That's why the US government late 1800s said, let's make a dollar and we kind of phase out. And but that came with its own problems because in the early 1900s, first 10, 12 years, 13 years of the 1900s, you had all these depressions. And then they said, let's go hardcore with this Federal Reserve system. So the world's always just going from a good idea, then it starts to break. So then the world goes too far the other way. And now in, you know, in 2014, well, really 2008, nine, 10, when crypto really came out, people started going, let's forget about all the centralized stuff, baby with the bath, don't throw the baby out of the bathwater. Yeah, you can take the good, so here's the thing. You can take good concepts and put them on a blockchain and make them be centralized. You don't have to re, I mean, you don't have to reinvent everything. You think, okay, in the past, what has worked in the centralized world? And you just created decentralized version of that. And it's as simple as that. So we went through, I liked it when I do these interviews, I like to do who, what, where, why, when. So we talked about the why. This is why Radio Shack's different. Who has access to buy the radio token? Anybody on this decentralized, it's on the blockchain. Anybody with crypto assets on. Anybody in the world? Yeah, and the world. If you live on planet Earth. Is blockchain. And you have electricity or access to electricity and the internet. That's the who. Yeah, obviously everybody has to check with their local authority or whatever. Yes, there are certain countries, if you're in, you can't get in. Okay, so that's, that's the who. Right. The what is kind of what we've been covering. On the where side of things, where can people go? RadioShack.org. Dot org. Yes. That's where you go. You'll see all kinds of tools. You'll see more information. Right. You'll see the white paper links. You'll see access to the discord. There's tens of thousands of people active in this. And people are contributing. So 30,000 now. Yes. Yeah. First one and a half, two months. Yes. And it's a big community. It's a growing community. People are contributing marketing materials. People are actually sharpening the ideas on GitHub is open source. People can check in code. So that's kind of an exciting thing about crypto. You can't do that on centralized exchange. You can't do that with your Bank of America. You can't go, let me double check. There's a lot of trust. And sometimes not worry. So that's where you can go. RadioShack.org. I'm going to put a special link to that's related to what this talk right here with some extra materials. And if you want to just the audio of this or the video of this and depending where you're listening, go to radio shack.org slash one, the number one. RadioShack.org slash actually, sorry. RadioShack.org slash talk one, T-A-L-K and the number one, et cetera. That'll take you to special kind of resource page. That's just about what we've been talking about here. RadioShack.org slash talk and the number one, T-A-L-K one. Okay, so Alex, we're talking about the who, the what, the where, when did this launch? About five weeks ago, so. February, February 2022, February 22, okay. Launched out of, it wasn't launched in the US. So that's the when. We talked about the why. Now, I like to bring this up whenever, you know, I'm doing an interview with somebody. What was the moment you're doing two things? What's the moment you realize crypto like, wait a sec, this thing is gonna be big. And then number two, when did you realize, wait a second? I can't believe no one else has thought of this architecture and RadioShack. That RadioShack employs this efficient way of swapping and bartering. First question, when, where were you? Do you remember the moment? Cause I remember the moment I was realized. My moment was August, 2017. I called what I call a war council. Beverly Hills, you were there. And I've been hearing a lot of murmurings in 2017. You've obviously been seeing a run up in prices and things. My friend calls me, he's also a PhD. He goes, I got a crazy story. I got my PhD and I got this friend back in Argentina who became a janitor, this high school friend. And he told me in 2013 to go into Bitcoin and I didn't. And he put like a thousand bucks or whatever, a couple thousand. And my janitor friends were $37 million. Okay, that was before August, 2017. So I call it a war council. I said, everybody come. That's smart that I know. I invited 40 smart people. By the way, two or three of those are basically crypto billionaires now. Or Forbes, they're crypto on the Forbes list. So I did that. I had a huge dinner, spent a lot of money, $10,000 like on chefs and all this. And I had 40 people sitting there. And I just said, talk to me on this crypto thing. And it was just like all day and night and I was going, this thing's real. So I started a crypto podcast, quickly shot at that time, like number two crypto podcast in the world. So I started interviewing all these people. That was my, I think the $37 million that my friend's janitor buddy had. My friend was so depressed because he went to 12 years college PhD was valid in your school system. And it's like my friend in Argentina that didn't do any of that has 30 times more money than me or whatever. What was your moment? It's funny, I'm slower than you because I was at that dinner and I found crypto interesting but not compelling enough at that moment of time. So I tell you my thing, my breakthrough moment was smart contracts. Like when I figured out how smart contracts work and how this is the, this is the beauty of these civilizations for contracts. It's basically, I call it programmable. You call it customizable. Yes. Money or transaction. So basically instead of, so I think in real world you want to buy a house, okay. So there needs to be a contract that someone, you know, one side writes the other side verifies and then sign, escrow, brokers, hold the money, transfer the money. You see how many people are involved and if something goes wrong the money doesn't come in. Court system, escrow, agent, arbitration, EVH, shitting. It's insanity with blocked, with the smart contracts specifically which is what I really love, you can program all of it. You can say, okay, so this is what's going to happen. This is party A, this is party B and party A does this and that and that and this is the condition that needs to be satisfied. If it's not satisfied, this happened, that doesn't happen. All transparent on the blockchain, you program it, no human involved and it just gets executed. So you can basically go through no human needed for enforcement, for holding the money for us, escrow, all of that is programmed. Think another example, you know, any actually any bank, okay. So think, okay, somebody, you debit, you go to the bank, you deposit your money, they hold your money, somebody can come borrow that money, you know, and then they put an asset, let's say it's a collateral loan, they issue a mortgage to somebody and then if something doesn't happen and then you want your money back, you go to the bank. So you know how many people and lawyers and accountants are involved in that? All of that can be programmed. So you can, in theory. So the only one who loses is the middle man. All the middle man, it's like there is no human needed. But you as the person doing it, you win. Yeah, it's like, it's amazing because it's a very efficient system. It has a lot of advantages. One, it is transparent. Two, it is anything that can be easily codified and say, okay, this needs all the steps that need to happen. It can be programmed, executed and enforced on a blockchain without any human involved or any opportunity for mistakes. Now, everything has downsides. What's the biggest challenge radio will face? Is it just that there's so much noise and there's other exchanges that already have momentum? Right, it is obviously there's network effect with DeFi protocols. So the place that people go the most right at network effect. There's obviously that, you know, in my opinion, I always use Ethereum as a good example of a decentralized project in the sense that, you know, unlike Bitcoin, Bitcoin is kind of stuck. But Ethereum has been around for a long time. It has a huge community and somehow it manages to a little bit behind the times, but it catches up over time. So it, you know, it has a community that is talking about evolutionary systems. Decentralized systems are actually a good example of evolutionary systems. And it has a little bit of a leader who's alive. Yeah, exactly. That also helps. People like to think of the world as better off with no leaders, but that's actually false. If you study evolution, which is really, you could think of it as God, there's people who have the leader gene. And if it wasn't evolutionarily adaptive or functional, that would have long faded away. We'd all be a group of completely, you know, everybody has the same personality. Yeah, thought leader. An active community and it has a lot of, and that is I think what a good decentralized project needs to look like is, you know, and I hope we do that with Radio Shack is like, you know, it is a brand new concept, but who knows five years from now, there might be a new paradigm and a, you know, a lot of the problem that a lot of protocols make is that the community is kind of like, they're like, oh, this is working. You're going to stick with it. And they kind of fail to evolve. So they kind of get molded in this project. The pioneers eventually become established. Those who drag their feet. The pioneer who was angry at the incumbent, old school mentality eventually becomes what they hated. There's a little bit of that in crypto and NFTs. Yeah, for sure. And they say in time as are a lot shorter in crypto. So they're in it for one year, like, oh, we are the OGs of this thing. We're the OGs of NFTs, because we've been doing it for three months, Ty. Who are you to come in to this? You 90-day ago, or, unless you're not 90-day ago, or you're nobody, if you're only 14 days in it, you are clearly in fear. In crypto, I got a long way. There was an old commercial. You got a long way, baby. You come a long way, baby. You got a long way to go, baby, you know. I have a fear. I think it is arrogance, actually, that it actually manifests itself that way. So you feel like the little bit of whatever amount of time you put in kind of entitles you to be arrogant and are like, oh, I know it all. Who are you to come in? And that's how actually new entrants replace the old entrants, people don't realize it. It's good. That's like what I've always said. When you get critics, those critics are actually using brain power to stop new entrants instead of evolving so you can always beat them. The people you have to watch out for are the people who don't critique you and say nothing. It's kind of like a fist fight. If you're at a bar, don't fear the dude who's talking about how he's gonna beat you up. Fear the guy who just walks right up to you and knocks you out. Because he knows by alerting you, he makes himself an inefficient fighter by saying nothing, he's a silent assassin. So yeah, crypto is, I mean, you know, it's Cambrian explosion. Lots of weird stuff going on. We'll warn you, you know, be careful. There's a lot of, because it's permissionless, people do it, there's a lot of scams. You have to know how to protect your password or they call it your seed phrase, fancy word for password. Don't screenshot it on your phone. Someone hacked your phone. It's in iCloud, little side note. So radioshack.org slash talk one is an important place for you to go now because there's more information there. And now, in closing here, we talked about how it's different, talked about some of the risks in radio and any other project. What's the future look like 2025? Three years from now. Let's put, I like to put myself out on a limb here. Just, this isn't even just radio. So I called several years ago. I forget which year on camera I said, Bitcoin will be at 250,000 in 2025. Now, if you go on Twitter, there's been people saying Bitcoin will be at 100,000. One guy, John McAfee, who's no longer with Planet Earth, he said he would cut off his penis if Bitcoin was not at, what was it, a million by 2020. Okay, that bet didn't age well for him. Now, for some reason he didn't actually do it. 2020 came and gone and it wasn't at a million. I think his penis stayed attached to his body. So anyway, that, by the way, that is a true story. I'm not making that up. I do, I make no bets with body parts, by the way. But 2025, I think Bitcoin's still here. I think Ethereum, possibly what they call the flippany where the Ethereum or coin cap, market cap is higher than Bitcoin, more valuable. I think you have all these chains that are fighting. You have the polygons, the Solanas fighting whether they're side chain, completely their own chain, couple of them kind of sit there on the top. But I will make this prediction. It's kind of a broad one. So people maybe you say, oh, that's a cop out. There's a lot of stuff. Be careful of going all in on everything everybody talks about. What's hot creates complacency. So I saw this in 2017, my brother's, one of my brothers was working for my younger brother when I was doing my podcast and everybody was coming in with their compelling story of why their token would be so good. And it had a lot of buzz. And I told my brothers, don't just follow the buzz, follow logic. Ethereum was logical. Even back then crypto kiddies was kind of being built. There were some gains and things. And it was like, oh, okay. And then Bitcoin had this brand name, which you need to create kind of the strongest store of value. Although Alex and our co-founders of another project called USB, you can check it out at atlasusb.com which we think is a much better version of Bitcoin. But we won't talk about that now. We digress to another. So I think just be careful. In 2025, there's gonna be a hell of a lot of things that everybody's talking about now that are literally extinct. Right. I was just reading about, I think it was fast.co. It was a tech startup. It was like a Shopify plug-in kind of thing. I mean, I think it was a unicorn a month ago. Yesterday, their website said, sorry, we're no longer in business. In the fast growth world, things that are valued at just epic numbers, literally just, you would think something doesn't go from a billion to zero. It does. Yeah. And so just be warned that the thing in crypto is that people are talking about everywhere. It'll be interesting to see in the NFT world. Will your grandkids be buying board apes and crypto punks? I don't know. It doesn't seem like that. On the original Dow Jones industrial average, and I think what was it, 1885, somewhere around then, there's not one company that has survived to today. There's, the last one was GE, which was delisted off the Dow Jones industrial average, Dow Jones industrial index recently. Nobody survives. Right. So I guess my prediction for 2025 is a couple of the height tokens will be there. But new things may be radio, which is just, you know, it's in its infancy, not many people, there's a buzz is just beginning to build. Like these can, and especially in crypto world can completely replace the things that all the buzz is about today. What's your kind of call for it? I mean, it's, I think a lot of hype will be replaced. Now that hype will go away around different projects, but will be replaced with logical thinking. Does this protocol have a place? Is there a reason for it to exist? Like Ty and I will not do something just because it is there. It's like, what is a logical reason? Radio shack, there was a need. We look at it. I'm like, this is not logical. It's like maximum entropy system, liquidity around when we disperse all over the place for no reason. It's kind of like, as if we forgot how to do bartering, back when back in time. We forgot the Aztec techniques. We forgot the Mongolian, you know. Exactly. So that's, that's the reason for that. USB, you mentioned, we looked at Bitcoin and we're like, okay, Bitcoin, a lot of people do not like me saying it, but it's polluting the earth stuck in proof of work. It's slow. It has a lot of problems. And, you know, we created a more logical, eco-friendly version of that because there is a need for a token that access store value. Doesn't. But is Bitcoin the first, the first version of it is the best possible? It cannot be. Yeah. So we're like, okay. So people say Bitcoin is great because it has a limited supply. But you know what's better than limited supply? It has a deflationary supply. Deflationary or control, basically control. It's like, it's not limited. Okay. It has to be this specific number. Makes no sense. It's 21 million. Yeah. It's like, okay. Why? We're not 22. Yeah. We're not 2 million. Yeah. So. So more important than that. Yeah. But that, once again, we're going to do another talk on USB or Bitcoin. Right. But radio is important. Exactly. It's important. And at the end of the day, people say, Ty, where do you put capital in things that are important? Because no matter what the economy does, things that are important, you're not guaranteed to win. But they have a hell of a lot better chance because the first thing that disappears when times get tough, which people haven't seen in crypto. Right. Is all the fluff. Yes. People burn off the fluff real quick. And here's the view of it. Even if RadioShack doesn't succeed, somebody will use, has to do the exact same thing in the long term. So we are the first one with the thought, which is actually like I said, it's not even a new thought that is like, okay, we're going to create a token that is the counter collateral token for every transaction. Not a new idea. Yes. But it didn't exist before RadioShack in the decentralized world. It's a huge improvement. It's logical. So it has to happen. Yes. We want to be the guys that do it, but it has to happen. It has to happen. Doesn't make sense to do wood to pick to wool to, you know, it just doesn't make sense. So, you know, and because of that, like I said, we do things that there's a logical reason it has to exist. It has to exist. Like the fact that it doesn't exist bothers us. Yes. Does that make sense? And one of the advantages we have that makes a move around RadioShack is that name. Yeah. That name. So we talk about that in the white paper too. So RadioShack.org slash talk one. We will see you there. Alex, thank you. All right, man. I'm hungry. Yeah, I'm hungry too. RadioShack needs to invent a decentralized food delivery. Yes. Alex will be, Alex will single-handedly make that profitable through the amount of food he orders. Exactly. I was worried about Alex at one point. I was like, he's ordering a fat burger more that you should buy fat burger. He single-handedly moved the net profit of fat burger from his own consumption. He got about $50 million. I think they did about... Twice a day. Twice a day. Every day. I calculated he was eating 5,000 calories. I said, your blood must be thicker. He's like, it's no flow, it's cholesterol. He did have high cholesterol. See, I made Alex because he's a very logical guy, except on that, made him take a blood test and I showed him mathematically, this is not a good cholesterol level. That on the low got him to eat up. All right, talk to y'all soon. RadioShack.org slash talk in the number one.