 to Inside Leather History at Fireside Chat. I'm Doug O'Keefe, the host and co-producer of the chats with Mistress Joanne Gaddy. Inside Leather History, a Fireside Chat is a program of the Leather Archives and Museum. Today, I'm sitting down for an interview with Alastair Leather Hierith, and I've struggled to make sure I pronounced that correctly. You are the European Boot Black 2000. You're a Leatherman, you're trans, you're a polyamorous, a hypnotherapist, so I better be careful, and a counselor, a Boot Black, a daddy, a Leather Sir, and a slave. So, tell me, very good. So tell me a little bit about your early life, where you're from, your hometown, your family. I'm from where I am now, actually. I come from a small place on the wild west coast of Wales, called St. David's. I can actually see the house I was brought up in from my window here. It's the smallest city in the UK. It's only a city because it has a cathedral, but it has a very, very small population, so. Okay, what keeps you there? The land, it's beautiful. It's 176 miles of national coast park, beautiful beaches, mountains, moorland, incredible coastline. I spent my life growing up on the beach when I was a kid. My sister and I would go off on our bikes at the age of seven and eight, and we'd be gone all day just down to the beach. What sort of a childhood did you have? Very carefree. I was born in the 60s, so in the mid-70s, it was a very different childhood to, I think, the childhood that kids have these days. There was less security. There was no mobile phones. You just went off and played for the day, and you came home when it got dark, or when it was dinner time, you know? When you were a child enjoying this idealic life, did you have any idea that you were a little different? We were actually on a train. All of my family, my grandparents and me, and my mum and dad, we were actually going on holiday on a train, and I'd woken up from asleep, and I was sat on my grandfather's lap, and I said, I want to change my name. And he laughed at me and humoured me and accepted and called me that name for weeks, and my mum got really cross about it. Sorry. What was the name? This is the really funny bit. The name was Jesus, and I said, I really like that name, and I want that name. And my mum said, no, you can't have that name. And my grandfather humoured me with it for weeks, and my mother got really cross about it, and eventually we actually had a sort of set to about it, and she said, you can't have that name because it's a boy's name. And I said, and it had not occurred to me up until that point that I wasn't a boy. Oh. I mean, yes, okay, I would be dressed in dresses or skirts or, you know, or jeans or shorts or whatever, but clothing didn't seem gendered to me. And the idea that I wasn't a boy had not occurred to me. And I can remember feeling absolutely shocked over it and having to go away and have a really long think to myself about what that meant. And there was a sense of feeling wrong about that gender all the way through my rest of my childhood into my puberty, teenage years, all the rest of it. Let's explore a little bit about your transitioning. I have the privilege of speaking to many people who have transitioned, who are in the process of it. It's so unique for every single person. Tell us about your journey. Kink was actually the first space where I embraced male pronouns. Right from the very beginning of going out onto the kink scene, I was Sir or Daddy. I was never Mom or Mistress or girl. I was always Sir or Daddy. And it felt natural and right for me. I was very much masculine center at that point, but still identifying as female. And that space of feeling male, of being given male honorifics, being given male pronouns, being accepted in that space with no question, felt so right. And when I was in this 12 year relationship with another woman, I was very much the butch partner. I've gone from that into embracing my masculine identity, side of my identity. But she would not discuss transitioning at all. She was very against it. She felt that it challenged her own identity as a lesbian. And she wouldn't even discuss it. So while I was with that partner, I didn't think about it. I put it to one side and I stopped thinking about it. As our relationship waned and I knew more about that. Side of it as well. I realized that the, you know, that was one of the reasons that our relationship didn't last because I wanted to pursue that route. I wanted to pursue leather. I wanted to pursue transitioning. And then, you know, I wouldn't have convinced myself and say that. I mean, there are not things that fitted into her. Her life at all. So. Yeah, that, that really sort of took off. Once we'd split up. I mean, it was always there. That was always something that upset me that I couldn't pursue it. But I also think that I. other than the trans people I met on the kink scene, that was about it. And it was about six months, nine months after that, that I went to my GP and asked to transition. Take me back a little bit. How did you begin exploring kink life, gay life, your very first explorations in this arena? I was married in my previous life and my ex-husband and I explored restraint. I mean, we started with, you know, scarves, ties, anything that you can get your hands on and then progressed on to rope. And so that kind of thing happened in my relationships. And I guess that was my first really foray into anything you could really call kinky. And then it wasn't until I got divorced when I was 36. And that's when I really started to explore kink and the kink scene, the public scene. But there must have been something that gave you even a remote idea that you could do these things even with your husband. I don't know. I remember liking it and then thinking there's something about this that I need to explore. And I'm talking about, I mean, I didn't actually have a computer or the internet until I was 36. So yeah, that became, it was what I could read, what I could find in books. And then once I got the internet, obviously, it really took off because there was so much more available online. It was so much more accessible. Coming back to the books though. How did you even know about them? How did you even know this topic? Mostly they were things that my ex-husband picked up. So, you know, or one of my ex, one of my exes prior to that would have picked up magazines somewhere. Why were they doing that? I think there was a lot of unfulfilled kink in my other relationships prior to that. So were they picking up these magazines in order to introduce more kink into the relationship? Or did they have a different motive for picking them up? I think they were, yes, to introduce more kink. But I know one ex of mine who had these magazines before I came around, you know, and he shared them with me. So you said you were ordering a lot of things from outside the UK. Was there anything available locally for you? No, nothing at all. The nearest kink club to me is 100 miles away. And actually, there isn't one at the moment. But I remember, I mean, I'm 55 now. I remember in my mid 30s that the nearest kink club was Cardiff. And that's 120 miles to me. Tell me about some of these places. I'm sure someone would appreciate knowing what was there that enabled you to enjoy them. I took my kink. I actually found home in the Birmingham scene. In the midlands in the UK. And it was full of very friendly people, most of whom I still have as friends in my life now. And actually where I met the people that are in my leather family now. Why there? Because it had a really big kink scene. It actually had the, what we used to say, used to have the best players clubs. That, you know, if you wanted to go to London, but mainly you went to places like Torture Garden and they were very voyeuristic and very exhibitionist. But you didn't tend to get serious players. Whereas I think Birmingham has a reputation for having some very serious play clubs where people went to play. What were your first impressions about Birmingham and the scene you encountered? I think I worried at the time about being noticeably queer on the scene. Because it was very much a heteronormative scene. But actually it was very welcoming, very accepting. Nobody really batted an eyelid as to who your partner was, who you were with. And actually as I got to know the scene more, I realised that actually those things were quite fluid on the scene. That there were people that, you know, possibly might be in a heteronormative relationship but actually had other relationships besides or, you know, were possibly quite queer underneath it or quite bi or, you know. Was there anything shocking? No. I'm quite hard to shock. Anything eye-opening or that opened up a new possibility for you? It felt hugely exciting because it felt like I had finally found what I'd been missing in my life. The sensations, the type of relationship, when you're watching people playing and you can see the power exchange going on between them. That kind of element that I've been missing from my life really, there were instances of it and parts of it in prior relationships and a lot in the books that I'd read and but I hadn't experienced it in my own relationships up until then. And I very easily and quickly fell into a daddy role with my partners. Why so? It felt naturally the place where I fitted and it fitted our relationships in that I was, I was daddy, I was the the caregiver, the nurturer. I was the gentle enforcer of discipline and it was, it's who I still feel very much that who I am at my heart. Were you mentored at all? I really wanted to be mentored. I wanted to earn my leathers. I'd wanted that ever since I first read about it. And I didn't think it was feasible for me. I had met Master DK who's head of my leather family on the scene. We were friends. We'd been friends for quite a number of years. I'd actually dated one of the, I got to know him because I dated one of the other members of the leather family early on in my exploration when I thought I was a submissive and they kind of went, no, you're not really. I was in a relationship that wasn't poly. I was in a relationship for 12 years with somebody that wasn't poly and really struggled with that aspect of it. And then we, our relationship ended. And it was one of those traumatic breakups that, you know, took me a long while to get over. And the people that were there for me were actually Master DK and the leather family. And they, they said, come and stay, come and, you know, so I went to stay and we talked a bit and about three weeks later I petitioned to earn my leathers. Tell me about that. How did that go? Took me five years to earn my title of Leather Sir. It's, for me, leather earning is a very spiritual path. It's very, it's about self-development and self-awareness, learning what your weaknesses and strengths are. And being able to challenge yourself. You mentioned challenges that you faced in this journey. Please give me an example or two of what challenges you faced. Oh, ego must be the biggest one, I think. Okay. Yeah. I think it's for myself. I don't think there's a place for ego and dominance. Ego is the unbalanced side of you that wants what it wants because it wants it and not for any good reason. And there's, there is absolutely a place for confidence and for wanting what you want because it's good for you and for the relationship. But I think if you're, there is an element of selfishness with ego. And I think although that can be quite hot in the moment, if you're like that constantly in your relationships, then you're not allowing the nuance in the relationship. You're not allowing for the other person's needs and wants either. And I think that power exchange is a very delicate balance of that. Yes, of course, it's about what the dominant wants and how you want to conduct the relationship. But if it's not satisfying the needs of the submissives, then you know, nobody's going to be happy. So it's a very, it's very symbiotic. And I think that if you have an unhealthy ego in that mix, then it doesn't work. And I also think that there is something about ego that is linked to fear. Your ego is there because underneath it all, there's actually an element of fear of looking closely at why you are that way, why you want that. I think we, as people quite often, we are very scared of actually saying what we want and understanding what we want to need. And an awful lot of my leather journey in earning my leathers was about finding that out. Let's take the next step here, because I know this particular topic is monstrously important. You're the second European boot black. Okay. Tell us about that journey. How did that happen for you? So boot blacking, my grandfather taught me to clean my shoes when I was a kid, because it was hugely important to him that nobody ever went outside the door with dirty shoes. He was very much a very dapper man, and he always had his handkerchief in his pocket, and his shoes were beautifully shined. And as kids going to school, if he saw us going to school with dirty shoes, we were, we were in for it. You know, that was, that was really not on and we would get called back and told to go and clean our shoes. My dad was in the Navy, and he taught me to spit shine. And so again, that was just something, it was one of those things. And I realized that actually, it always brought me great pleasure. I would quite happily sit in clean shoes. And then I kind of heard about it in leather and read about it. And Q-Tip was that IMS Imsel BB 2009 came over to visit the UK and was hosted by Master DK in my leather family, although they weren't my leather family at that time. But we were friends. And so I went to see the demo that they gave and thought, that is really hot. So when I started my leather journey with the UK Coral leather family, boot blacking was one of the skills that I had to learn. Saloo in the leather family very much was, is a boot black. And very much mentored me in that. And it became, you know, one of the things we did as a family quite often that the submissives in the family would would just get the boots out and clean them. But there's not very much space in the UK for public boot blacking. I'd been part of, you know, Facebook groups, etc. for boot blacks and FetLife groups for boot blacks. So I'd been sort of on the fringes of the boot black community and having conversations with other boot blacks for years. But there wasn't really any public space for it in the UK. Looking at the, the Darklands website and seeing the competition. And I just thought, I'd really like to go at the time I was really strapped for money. And I looked at the cost of the tickets and I went, I can't afford to go can afford to get there. I can't afford to actually buy the pass for the weekend. So it said that if you apply to come and boot black with us that you get a free pass. So I applied. And the next thing I knew, I'd been accepted as part of the European boot black competition. And didn't actually realize that that's what I was applying for. And I didn't think much of it at the time because, you know, as far as I was aware, it was just going to boot black on the stands with the other people. And I didn't really think of it as much of a competition. And then a few weeks later, they came back and they said, oh, we're going to introduce a an interview section. And then a few weeks after that, they said, we're going to introduce a tech boot. And then after that, they said, we're going to add a stage presence in. So it suddenly became not just going and boot blacking on the stands with other boot blacks, it turned into this this thing that suddenly got a little bit scary, actually. And I went and just thought, well, it's turned into this thing. But actually, I'm just going to boot black. Before we go further, would you please explain Darklands and where it's located and what contest goes on there for the international audience? I'm sure there are people who are not aware. So Darklands is in Antwerp. And it's a large fetish leather convention. And it hosts the Mr. Puppy Europe, Mr. Leather Belgium, European boot black and Mr. Sportswear Europe. Yeah, I think competitions during that weekend. And it's a five day weekend. Starts on the Thursday night and finishes on the Monday morning. And I suppose it has about 6000 attendees every year, I think. And they set up the European boot black competition. Boot black Europe was started in 2019. So the first holder of the title was a German non-binary person called Karl Heintz. And I'm the second holder of the title. And the first person from the UK to hold a boot black title. How has that been received for you in the UK? Well, I got the title on the 7th of March, 2020. And we went into lockdown on the 23rd, I think, of March. So I only managed one fetish event before we went into lockdown. And that was the Mr. Leather UK competition, which happened to be the week after. So it's been quite difficult to actually get out and do any boot blacking. And I haven't, to be honest. I have felt very welcomed by a lot of the UK leather clubs who've, I've done some workshops for them. And there's been an awful lot of support from within the leather clubs in the UK and within the general kink scene as well. Part of my title goals is to set up a UK boot black competition. Because again, we don't really have a cohesive boot black community in the UK. And that's one of the goals is to try and reintroduce boot blacking to the UK. And create a boot black community and a title to go with it. Where do you intend to do that? At what events? What places? One of the big London fetish bazaars is the London alternative market, which again is monthly. And that's been running, oh gosh, I think for about 20 years in London. They actually have a boot black stand, which I didn't know about. But it's hardly ever in use. So I'd quite like to get their boot black stand used and for it to become a normal part of their marketplace. So that you come do your fetish shopping and get your boots blacked. The same with the BBB, I've been approached by them as well, wanting to set up a boot black stand within the Birmingham market. So again, I'm hoping that once we actually have these spaces that people who are interested and people who are boot blacking at home within their relationship dynamics or for themselves actually want to come and be a part of that and to take on manning the stands and creating some community around boot blacking. Are you in contact with boot blacking organisations, for example, here in the United States? I've made a lot of friends in the last year or so since winning the title, who are boot blacks in the US. And my title pins were, yes, they were sponsored and paid for by one of those boot blacks, who is a producer and they run the Mid-Atlantic leather competitions. I think it was those and they sponsored my pin run for me. So I've had a lot of support. I run a weekly virtual munch, which happens every Wednesday and it's happened every Wednesday since the 23rd of March last year. And we have a lot of boot blacks who turn up for that. So and we have we have different topics each week and, you know, we'll have next week is an age play event last year. Last week was puppy play or pet play. And the week after that will be a boot black week. So there'll be a lot of boot blacks in the room. And it's we have a community of people who just turn up every week or we get new people who turn up periodically as well. And it's actually been really nice to have that space and that community that's built from it over this last, you know, 18 months. And I think that I've had a lot of opportunities that have come from that. I've done classes for associations all over the US. I did some classes for Titans of the Midwest and the LANM. And for NLA Texas, no, NLA Dallas, sorry. And for I did a class for TES, the the oil and sugar society. I'm sure there are more some UK ones as well. So I've been very lucky that I've been asked to host quite a few classes. Well, many boot blacks extensively fundraise and they they're always trying to, you know, support their work in the community. Do you do a lot of fundraising? Is there a way people can contact you? Yeah, currently we are fundraising for to fund the UK boot black competition. And also to fund my travel to IML for the IMBB competition. So I have set up a website, which is www.getyourhandsdirty.co.uk. I love it. And it I'm hoping that it will start or prove to be a resource for UK boot blacks. There is a blog on there. There is some fundraising, some kit products, some videos, tutorial videos, a little bit about the leather family and about myself and our goals for the title competition. What is the biggest misconception about you? I guess on the kink scene, I've been told that I couldn't possibly be a dominant because I'm a woman previously prior to transitioning. I couldn't possibly be a dominant because I'm too short. That's completely nonsense, both of those. Yeah. And that, you know, yes, that I would I'm quite often to be found laughing in kink. And I think it probably doesn't come across as terribly dominant. But I don't think that any of my partners would say that I'm not dominant. How does that dominance carry over for boot blacking? That's interesting. Actually, it's something I want to explore more because, as I said, public boot blacking isn't something I've done a great deal of. I am quite happy providing service. I think there is an assumption sometimes that every boot blacks are submissive. And I don't think, you know, that's the case at all. But also, service isn't necessarily a submissive act. Service can quite happily be performed by a dominant or by a switch. And I often think that out of community leaders who are dominance, they actually serve more than anybody. Because when you are educating, when you are providing spaces, when you are doing all of those things that keeps our community going, what is that but an act of service? Well, Alastair, I would like to thank you very, very much for a lovely interview. Been a pleasure meeting you a little bit. And I hope that I shall have the opportunity to meet you in person soon.