 Good afternoon and welcome to today's Energy Seminar. It's kind of a nice follow-on to last week's seminar. For those of you who were here, it was about federal climate technology policy, plus this week we're going to hear about the state version of that from the biggest state in the Union. And is it now sixth biggest country in the world? Fifth biggest economy in the world. But I am unworthy to introduce such a person. So I've asked my friend and colleague, Mike Master Andrea, who is the director of research at the Woods Institute Climate and Energy Program, as well as the policy director of the Doerr School of Sustainability Accelerator Program. But perhaps most importantly for this job is the chief advisor to the Energy Commission on energy and climate, specializing in R&D and technology assessment. So you may see a little bit of a link in here. Mike, by the way, is not only a graduate of the Stanford EIPER Emmett Interdisciplinary Program on Environment and Research here at Stanford Interdisciplinary Program, which has existed for 22 years, three years. He is actually the first graduate of said program building on an undergraduate degree in biological sciences also here at Stanford. And when he introduced Joni, you'll see he also has an interesting and deep connection and background with Stanford. So Mike. Great. Thank you, John. Hi, everyone. Thanks for the very kind introduction. It's my pleasure to introduce my close colleague, Jonas Steinbeck, who is the director of the Energy Research and Development Division at the California Energy Commission. And before joining CEC, first he was a student here. He did a PhD in the Civil and Environmental Engineering Department, also an MPA from the Harvard Kennedy School. And prior to working at CEC, he worked on climate and clean energy policies and initiatives at the Department of Energy, at the federal level, also the American Meteorological Society, and at the White House Council on Environmental Quality and in the US House of Representatives. So I'm going to hand it over to Joni, without further ado. Thank you very much for being here. Thanks so much, Mike. Great to be with everyone today. Thanks for coming out during a busy time in the term here. I'm sure you've got a lot of demands on your time, so appreciate you coming today. And thanks to the Energy Seminar Organizers for the opportunity to connect with you all and share a bit about the energy innovation activities that we are investing in through the California Energy Commission. And yeah, great to be back on campus. A lot of fond memories of being in rooms just like this. Sometimes for exams, which is more stressful, but for most of the time, most of the memories are fond when looking back. So I'm going to be just giving you an overview of some sample projects that we've invested in, so technology innovation, research projects, and also previewing some upcoming programs that we're excited to launch with new resources, and then also briefly touching on opportunities to connect and collaborate in the future. So a lot of this work that we're conducting at the Energy Commission is motivated by global climate change and addressing the urgent need to meet our greenhouse gas goals as a state, in particular the goal for carbon neutrality by 2045. This is a chart from the California Air Resources Board showing the emissions in 2022, and then looking out to 2045 and what we need to do across all these different sectors of the economy, namely dramatic reductions in every major sector. You can see some residual emissions in 2045 that we anticipate needing to be addressed through carbon removal strategies, so either leveraging natural and working lands or engineered solutions, which I'll talk about a little later on. So the Energy Commission is the state's lead energy policy and planning agency. We work with the private sector, with community groups, with research institutions to advance energy systems that are clean and reliable, affordable and equitable. And this includes targeted investments and policy and planning in the areas of renewable energy, energy efficiency, clean transportation. We do analysis for the long run to meet our mid-century goals, as well as help prepare and respond to energy emergencies in the near term. So I'll just go through different sectors that are key to the Energy Commission's work towards those carbon targets that I mentioned. So in electricity, our guiding policy in California is 100% clean and zero carbon resources by 2045. We're making strong strides on this one, so over, well, in the neighborhood of 60% today, so 37% renewables. As of 2021, this charts a touch out of date, large hydro and nuclear making up the remainder. And another key development and area of leadership for California has been the deployment of battery storage. So going from 2019 to 2023, we're experiencing about a 10-fold increase of battery energy storage on the grid that helps complement, intermittent renewables, and balance the grid. So that's a key component of achieving this goal. And then you can see at the bottom right of the chart that we anticipate needing, according to this core scenario in our SB 100 analysis, our analysis for achieving this mid-century goal, as we need around 50 gigawatts, 50,000 megawatts of energy storage. So we're around 13% of the way there in terms of filling up that little battery graphic. This is a look at the individual resources or the mix of resources that we think could be key for achieving this 100% renewable future. So this comes from the SB 100 analysis that was mentioning that the California Energy Commission led together with the Public Utilities Commission, Air Resources Board, and others. And a couple key points here, just a rapid increase in the size of the grid in terms of its capacity is going to be needed, particularly as we electrify buildings and transportation. We need more electricity. And utility scale solar and battery energy storage are going to be key parts of the portfolio. But other resources like offshore wind and long-duration energy storage are going to be important in 2045. And I'll speak a little bit about some of the efforts we're undertaking to advance those technology areas. And then what's not shown here is also other key strategies, including energy efficiency, demand response, also customer solar as well, which isn't shown here. So in the transportation space, our state target here is 100% zero emission vehicle sales by 2035 in the light duty segment and by 2045 in the medium heavy duty segment. And we're making good progress here as well in recent years. So you can see in 2017, we were under 5% share in EVs as a share of the total sales. And then in 2023, we're approaching, well, hit 27% in quarter three. We'll be a touch over that by the end of the year. There's a massive buildout of chargers needed to support this growth of EVs. So by 2030, we anticipate having around 7 million EVs in the state needing about a million chargers. So it's a tall order, but we're making good progress in the early stages of the buildout. We're approaching 100,000 chargers, assuming an exponentially increasing kind of trajectory, as you see in sales, for example. And we just reached 10,000 fast chargers as well, which are important for particular duty cycles and certain user needs. And then in buildings, we've connected some analysis, looking at a 40% reduction of GHGs by 2030 and some of the different strategies that would be needed to achieve that and are implementing a range of different policy initiatives, one of which the CEC has authority over as the Building Energy Code. So ratcheting that over time in a way that leads to greater electrification, movement away from gas end use. And we also have electric ready requirements in the Building Code and are in the process of doing an update for 2025 that will be even more ambitious. And the Building Code in California is really kind of a world-leading model. So not only is it important for California, but it's also helpful for thinking about kind of the frontier of energy performance in other jurisdictions. The governor announced a 6 million heat pump deployment goal by 2030. And we just announced a commitment with major manufacturers of heat pumps. So close to a dozen manufacturers have committed to work with the state, partner with the state to track this deployment and work to, obviously, deploy and hit this goal, but also to do it in a great friendly way. And I'll talk a little bit about load flexibility. The next point is related to this as well. So we set a 7 gigawatt load flexibility goal for 2030 at the CEC together with our partner agencies. This goes beyond the building sector, but it's important as we electrify the building stock that it is able to be grid-friendly, operate in a way that helps balance the grid. We're really fortunate to have a wonderful new set of resources, both through the state as well as the federal government. The Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act provides over $60 billion in energy infrastructure and energy technology funding, the Inflation Reduction Act provides important tax credits for solar and storage and heat pumps. And the state level over the past two budget cycles as a state, we've made a $50 billion climate commitment, and this includes around $7 billion for the California Energy Commission. Some of the other pieces are going to other agencies for a wide range of mitigation and adaptation initiatives. And so at the CEC, we're really fortunate to have this great augmentation, a lot of it focused on EV infrastructure buildout to move from 100,000 to a million chargers, for example, clean energy, building de-carve, and greater liability of some of the other areas. And so I'm going to be focusing this talk on the R&D portfolio, and of that $7 billion, there's over $1 billion in R&D that's going to support a suite of new programs, which are shown here in the bolded text, building on some of our foundational programs like the Electric Program Investment Charge, which is our electricity R&D program, and most of the examples, project examples that I'm going to be speaking about come from EPIC. And we can take some of the progress momentum from EPIC and use it to accelerate our progress in these larger scale programs that are more deployment-oriented. Through EPIC and just more broadly, we do take a targeted approach to our investment, looking at where there are key barriers in the technology innovation pipeline. So as some examples, the CalSEED initiative under EPIC is intended to help innovators kind of the early stages when they have a concept for a product or a service or an early prototype and help move that forward. CalSEED is a program to give access to leading labs across the state and demonstrate the performance of the technology, get third-party validation, and help build investor confidence. Out on the other far end of the innovation spectrum as you're getting closer to market maturity, we have the RANT program, which is intended to support the automation of manufacturing of the technology. And then we also have these regional innovation clusters throughout the state where there's business support services, ecosystem, sorry, kind of networking support and so forth to support entrepreneurs across the state. So I'm going to be speaking about a number of EPIC project examples, as I mentioned. And so I just wanted to give you a kind of high-level view of what the program is delivering. We've invested over a billion dollars over the past decade through EPIC, and that has catalyzed over $10 billion in private follow-on investment. So that's kind of a nice demonstration of the catalyzed effect of public investment. This has led to commercialization of over 70 technologies and another piece that I would highlight is we're investing 70% of the demonstration and deployment funding in under-resourced communities. So we're trying to advance a more inclusive approach to clean energy innovation. And so now I'm just going to give you a little tour of some different projects in sort of no particular order and a little bit random jumping across different sectors of the economy. The first one is an investment in just building our knowledge base so that we can do better planning as a state, make better decisions as electricity system planners or various parts of the energy infrastructure. So this is an effort to get more granular information about the climate that we anticipate. So taking global climate models and using the latest state-of-the-art techniques to downscale those models to get more granular geographically specific information. This is an example of precipitation changes by the end of the century. And we've got a lot of different variables to help us with understanding. For example, the increase in air conditioning load associated with just a hotter climate, how hydro might respond as precipitation changes occur and wildfire risk as we have a drier and hotter climate. So this is going to be a powerful tool for us as a state and we're making this data available for broad use. So we've got the Caladapt platform that's providing a kind of broad access to this data. And you can visualize the data and there's limited data for downloading and then we're developing this new kind of pro tool called the analytics engine, which is on the right. So this includes hourly data out through 2100 of like 200 different scenarios, incredible amount of data to analyze and understand and draw insights from. And so if you're doing research in this area, you can tap into this wonderful new resource. Pause and take a quick sip of water here. Any questions before I move on? So we have an indoor air quality portfolio as part of our overall investments. So as an example, back in 2009, we funded a paper that looked at formaldehyde from new construction and specifically composite wood materials and that's led to an important update on the building code as well as a carb regulation for composite wood. More recently looking at emissions from gas stoves. So NO2, for example, can build up above health thresholds when there isn't ventilation used. And so that's a new concern. There can be issues with particulate matter as well. Some of you may be aware there was a recent Stanford study looking at benzene emissions from gas stoves. So we're trying to better characterize the emissions, the types of chemical constituents and whether the health implications might be for residents in these homes. We've invested over a hundred million dollars in microgrids across the state supporting the development of more than three dozen microgrids to demonstrate the value of these resources as sources of energy resilience in communities and improving the communications and controls for operating these optimally. So this is one example from the Blue Lake Rancheria which is in the northern part of the state. It was able to support 20,000 residents after the earthquake last December, which you may recall. And it was also credited with saving four lives by keeping some medical equipment powered. So these are really important for energy resilience and can be also supportive of the grid as well in other situations. Gradient is a really innovative firm developing this heat pump, heating and cooling technology and making it more accessible to more people. So sort of like the window AC unit you may be familiar with, but this can do heating as well and it can do it super efficiently producing greenhouse gases and saving money for consumers and it can be installed by the resident. So this allows someone to access this technology, take it with them if they're a renter for example. And so we see a lot of opportunity for these types of solutions that are kind of lower cost and easier to access. And then the next one here is Smartville. So Smartville is advancing second use or repurposing of electric vehicle batteries. So once a battery is degraded to the point where it's less useful in a car, it still has a fair amount of capacity and can be reused again for stationary storage applications for providing some resilience again locally or providing some grid support and helping us reach our storage capacity targets as a state. And it kind of builds a more circular economy approach with batteries. We're also looking at further down the line recycling the materials in batteries and looking upstream. I'll talk a little bit about upstream, more sustainable approaches to the materials that are going into batteries. 12 is a really innovative firm, Stanford PhD, Etosha Cave shown here and other Stanford co-founders. So they're taking Waste CO2 and making chemical precursors for a wide range of products like jet fuels and plastics, car parts and apparel. And so this is a really promising technology to pair with carbon capture technologies, for example, in the industrial sector and make good use and kind of provide additional value to Waste CO2. And they're growing rapidly as a firm. So this kind of example of a really successful startup. Another one in our portfolio is a YEV. So this is gonna be the first E-truck stop in California which should come online in about a year. So this is near Bakersfield, California and it's an area of the grid that has electricity distribution constraints. And so to kind of maximize what they could provide in terms of charging trucks here, they deployed this distributed energy resource approach where they built a solar array. Oh, they're in the process of I should say, still undergoing. And also paired with a battery storage system and then the controllers so that they're able to charge about 50 electric trucks over completely off the grid on average and then grid tied chargers in another part kind of lower down. So this allows charging overnight and so forth but able to provide a greater charging capacity than otherwise by utilizing distributed energy resources. Antora is developing a really interesting thermal energy storage system. So using carbon blocks to store the thermal energy, for example from renewables and then it's contained in these insulated containers and then later days or potentially weeks later accessing that thermal energy for industrial heat or they're actually developing these cells that can convert the thermal energy back to electricity. So this is pretty cool. These thermal photovoltaic cells. So this sort of like PV but rather than tuned to the spectrum of sunlight they're tuned to the spectrum of thermal radiation. Cal Flex Hub is an initiative of Lawrence Berkeley National Lab. So this is looking at the controls and the communications for making, building energy appliances and equipment more grid friendly. So taking information about the price of electricity or greenhouse gas signals or flex alerts from the California independent system operator and using that to inform where to maybe shift load relative to where it may have occurred otherwise and help support the grid in that way. So this is an example with hot water heaters but they're looking at 15 different applications, CB chargers, HVAC units, et cetera and trying to better understand how to optimally transfer data communicate signals and have these devices support the grid. And here is a somewhat similar example trying to leverage the flexibility in electricity demands here for irrigation pumping close to 4% of the state's electricity use is in agricultural pumping. And so it's a major opportunity to shift around load to better match up with renewables for example or avoid periods of high demand. So Polaris was able to demonstrate 25 megawatts of shiftable load across 20 different farms in California and also showed some labor cost reductions by automating the controls on the pumps rather than doing it in a manual fashion. OhmConnect is doing something similar in the building sector. So this is aggregating lots of different residential consumers and helping them aggregate those reductions to be able to participate in the electricity wholesale market. So they're tracking great conditions and seeing when wholesale markets are spiking and then can call on their 200,000 users across the state. I think they may be outside of California now too but I think they've got over 200,000 users now and they can reduce their loads. Kaizo market compensates OhmConnect for that load reduction and then OhmConnect and then pass along that incentive to their users for making that reduction. So this is a really cool way of aggregating small loads. Sky cool systems. A number of these are Stanford connected innovations by the way and I'll highlight that a little bit more at the end so that this one was developed by a Stanford, this firm was co-founded by a Stanford PhD student. And what they're doing here is taking these sky cool panels. So these are kind of multi-layer films on these panels that are highly reflective to incident solar radiation but they also have very high emissivity so they can very effectively radiate heat. And as a result, the fluid that's flowing kind of getting piped through the panels is able to achieve a temperature that's below ambient. So they take that subambient fluid which is water and glycol I think in this application and then they pipe it over to a refrigeration unit. I think this is one of their applications on a grocery store and that cooled fluid can be used to make the refrigeration cycle more get energy savings, cooling for example, the condenser or cooling the refrigerant in that cycle. And one of the grocery stores was able to achieve like $3,000 of a monthly bill savings from this. Offshore wind is a really important emerging area for the state and I think I showed at the beginning that it could contribute very significantly to our 2045 100% clean energy future so we've got some specific planning targets for two to five gigawatts by 2030 and 25 gigawatts by 2045. The first lease sale was held by BOME and so now there are developers that are looking to deploy these technologies in the near term and we're conducting R&D to support this overall resource through technologies and studies looking environmental monitoring, anchor and mooring designs. So the little plot of the illustration of mooring line configurations is sort of a schematic of a very simplified kind of cartoon but we have a very detailed model that's being developed by NREL, National Renewable Energy Lab to look at different configurations and based on wind conditions and waves, seismic activity, et cetera, and cost considerations, what are some optimal configurations for setting up an offshore wind farm. And then the example on the bottom right is ART-CAM technologies which is developing 3D printing technology for concrete so this could be a way of doing some low-cost development of anchors and tower sections and so forth and cutting down on transportation costs. So one of the big issues is these devices are so big that it's really hard to costly to transport them from anywhere else so you need solutions that can be done, you know, manufacturing approaches that could be done for example in the port and easily deployed. And then we're also co-funding with some other states and federal agencies through the National Offshore Wind R&D Consortium. Lithium recovery, I kind of previewed this earlier, this is another important area. California is lucky to have a really fantastic lithium resource down by the Salton Sea and so this is not in the Salton Sea itself but further down the subsurface in Lawrence Berkeley National Lab just conducted a study suggesting that the resource could be big enough to support battery manufacturing for 375 million EVs. So that's a pretty significant global resource and it also has the potential to be developed in a more environmentally benign way relative to other forms of lithium recovery around the world which includes hard rock mining and evaporation ponds so here it's leveraging geothermal brine used for geothermal energy production and it can be recovered and then the stream can then be discharged back into the reservoir. A few of the issues here are scaling shown with the tape measure there so that's a pipe that's experiencing deposits of minerals so removing the silica from the brine is an important part of the process to control the scaling and cost issues, maintenance issues associated with that. Lithium recovery demonstration is another part of our portfolio so we're doing a one-tenth commercial scale system currently and then some areas looking forward are trying to recover additionally valuable minerals such as zinc and copper, manganese and magnesium and then also better advancing pretreatment strategy so handling the constituents before you remove the lithium and then we also have a decommissioning gas system decommissioning research and planning portfolio so as more customers move towards electrified equipment they will be leaving the gas system over time if that goes unmanaged you have smaller and smaller group of gas customers supporting all the infrastructure so gas rates could really increase E3's analysis suggest it could be 480% increased by 2050 if it went unmanaged and so we're looking at opportunities to pair back the gas system in a strategic way that supports kind of zonal approaches to electrification and reduces the infrastructure burden so they've identified in this example 360 meters or customers in the East Bay if you were to trim the gas system for them the savings would be in the neighborhood of $30,000 per meter of avoided replacement and repair costs so we want to do this in a more automated fashion too E3's doing very analytically intensive taking a very analytically rigorous approach so we want to be able to do this at a statewide scale and so we're also looking to develop a data driven tool to kind of automate the process of figuring out where the infrastructure may have a safety issue or need replacement soon or be of a pipe type that's more susceptible to rupture et cetera and there's some upcoming funding in that area and then last segment here is some new programs that I previewed before with the new state resources so I'll go into those now I'll take a drink of water here any questions on that so far? And I was wondering are there examples of statistical projects in the utility scale solar space and there are other opportunities to try to use the recipe Yeah, the solar is already rapidly expanding on the grids so that's one of the fastest growing segments of the grid today and I showed the battery storage as well so those are really rapidly expanding because well battery storage is critical for the grid balancing and solar is a very abundant resource with matured technology to capture it And just for the terminology Long duration here for you is like between two and 12 hours and short duration you'd say it's been a source of knowledge Yeah sorry not to clarify that before so what we're defining long duration as eight hours or more of duration and a typical lithium ion battery would be about four hour duration but we're interested in longer time scales as well tens of hours, hundreds of hours and we have some investments in that space so yeah that's a good intro into this so we have this new long duration energy storage program moving beyond lithium ion which is matured technology and less conducive for long durations and pumped hydro is also well established so we're looking at flow batteries potentially like compressed air systems gravitational systems are some of the different technology options here and there's going to be a competitive solicitation for 90 million dollars as planned in the next year Clean hydrogen production is another one of our upcoming areas so this is focused on primarily electrolytic pathways to hydrogen production so using electricity to break up water and generate hydrogen that way but we also at a more distributed level are interested in biogenic pathways using for example biomethane or other feed stocks to produce hydrogen in a way that could be used onsite so the centralized hydrogen is more envisioned to be electrolytic but distributed opportunities where the use and the production are both the same site could be more mixed in this program and then we're excited about this new area to us carbon removal like I mentioned in the scoping plan we need to achieve tens of millions of metric tons of CO2 reduction in mid-century maybe 100 million metric tons and so it's important to start to invest in performance improvements and cost reductions with these technologies the image is not a CC project but the first commercial direct air capture facility so pulling carbon dioxide from the atmosphere and then either utilizing it in the product like I mentioned with 12 or pumping it into the subsurface for long term sequestration so Air Loom just launched their facility in Tracy and have these trays of calcium hydroxide that capture the CO2 and then they heat up the end product and pull off the CO2 molecule and it's going to be used in cement production so we're going to be funding applied R&D field demonstrations and community engagement through this program and then industrial decarbonization and grid support so this is kind of a very hard to decarbonize segment of the economy industrial emissions account for about a quarter of California's greenhouse gases and coal is used in making cement tires and petroleum coke are used in making cement with glass manufacturing and chemicals as well those are the two others that have the highest greenhouse gas footprint in the industrial sector after oil and gas and cement so these are some of the areas that we're interested to try to decarbonize and make more grid friendly as we do so particularly with electrification strategies and then another one on community energy resilience so we're fortunate to be receiving some funding from the Department of Energy and this is going to be provided to grid owners and operators and some of the other entities noted here but research institutions and other entities could partner with those types of eligible entities and this is focused on storage, micro grid components including the storage or the controls of the communications to advance strategies for like reconductoring or undergrounding approaches et cetera so opportunities to build resilience to climate impacts and make our grid more robust leave it at that just a few other examples here Epic has a lot of different funding opportunities upcoming just a few noted here more on the R&D of long duration storage to complement the deployment program that I mentioned before virtual power plants the Cal Flex Hub initiative I mentioned at LBNL we're looking to create something similar for the industrial ag and water sector and then there's a lot of wonderful federal resources as well, battery manufacturing and direct air capture so we're looking to leverage those funds help California project teams and entities make good use of those funds and pair in some cases with state funds and then I alluded to this a little bit but many of these firms and many others in our portfolio have Stanford connections of one sort or another, PhDs, postdocs, undergrads, et cetera so it's an impressive network of innovators across the state and Stanford is playing a key role in training those leaders and then just wanted to leave it here with some opportunities to collaborate and connect Mike and others are leading this Stanford-CC partnership so Mike's providing advisement to the CC on R&D and energy assessments and so we're benefiting greatly from that expertise and perspective and looking to expand that and engage more people on campus so there's an opportunity to just think about a broader partnership there working with Leon now too on some opportunities for us to partner around some other areas as well so I look forward to just further conversation to see what's possible Schultz Fellowship Program is a great way to get an experience at the CC or some other state agencies where you can get a stipend and come join our agency or another for the summer there's collaboration on topics of mutual interest if you're doing research on an area I think it's of interest to the CC or maybe a class project we just partnered with the Goldman School one of their classes was doing some analysis related to the CC so welcome interest in maybe partnering on a class project or research topic and then we've got the volunteer program a nice way to maybe get some insights into state service, career opportunities as well you know I'd love to just encourage wherever I can have people to consider public service and moving into this clean energy space I didn't mention it but this seminar actually I used to come to it as a grad student and I was working in oceanography and fluid mechanics but this was a great way to just kind of get a glimpse of what was going on in the energy space so maybe some of you might be interested in taking the next step and trying out a career opportunity and funding opportunities as well upcoming and there's a couple of sites here if you want to track our upcoming solicitations so thank you, appreciate it Thanks very much Jonah that was extremely important with a lot of information in there so now we have a little bit of time for questions in the room any questions? Raise your hands Mike, if you want to go over to the next slide Thank you for your talk so yes, since you have a really good overview of all the projects that are coming up I'm curious to see are there certain problem spaces that I think more people should be working on? We need help across the board I would say but I think energy storage in particular is a really important emerging area we have wonderful intermittent renewable resources in California, a great solar resource our offshore wind is really promising as well but to bring those all together in a way that meshes with the demand side storage is going to play a fundamental role I mean I could mention every part of the portfolio they're all critically important demand flexibility on the other side I guess the broader theme maybe is things that can support grid reliability because as you go to more renewables you're dealing with more intermittent resources so how do you bring those together in a way that meets energy services that require energy at a particular time so there's different approaches either storage or demand flexibility or a balanced portfolio of different renewables that have different generation profiles throughout the day and through different seasons. Thank you for the great presentation I was really really excited when I saw the 25% market share of EVs in California I'm from Colorado and we're doing pretty good over there but what do you think other states can do to get that level of success? Right, I think building the infrastructure is sort of fundamental because otherwise you've got sort of range anxiety and so you want to build up that confidence that there's going to be the infrastructure there to get you where you need to be I mean I think that the vehicle market itself is really developing and greater ranges so that alleviates some of the range anxieties because there's more capacity on the vehicle itself I would think anything that could support infrastructure development is going to be kind of first step. Thank you so much for the talk I'm wondering is there any citizenship requirement for the state level funding because I know there is for federal level. Yeah I'm not aware of any citizenship requirement on the funding there's maybe one exception which was Russia but yeah I think it was you know if there's a company that's Russian owned there was a prohibition on that but I'm not aware of any others. Great, other questions over here? Thank you for your presentation you talk about electrification and gas decommissioning so I'm curious just do you think it's possible for like every residential house to completely get rid of gas appliances? I know it's like doable but I also noticed that many people they would prefer gas stove and like fireplaces because they like actual flames. You highlighted an important barrier which is you know customer preferences which vary and so I think our objective as a state is to make it as affordable and you know compatible with different lifestyles different consumer choices so it's driving down the cost of you know electric technologies and you know there's actually really I mean I just got an electric range and it's super high performing I mean it's very responsive so you know I told my family and they're kind of interested now and like you know they're trying it on my stove and so there's just kind of a little bit of a neighbor effects too you know as you see other people adopt technology you know the mindset maybe evolves a little bit but I think what's important is meeting people where they are what their preferences are and figuring out solutions that are compatible with that not necessarily trying to change their minds about something but maybe coming up with technology solutions that kind of incorporate the preference so what is it about the gas range performance that is underlying you know contributing to the preference is it something about you know the responsiveness or some other aspects of it and then trying to design the new electric technology to kind of satisfy that preference. Great any final questions right here maybe I'll make that the last question because technically we're supposed to end around now that's okay yeah. Hey thank you so much for your talk it's so refreshing I used to work in local government to see a government doing so much innovation work my question is about a little bit how government can get out of the way as well as supporting these projects so I've been really excited to see solar APP plus rolled out for residential solar in California and I just wondered whether you guys were exploring any utility scale solar or wind projects or the form of renewable energy projects which automate the permitting process and try and speed up the rollout of that energy. Yeah that's a really important barrier just permitting and interconnection of new resources so it's an important topic it's a little bit outside of the balance of my personal expertise but I know folks like Leong and others are really focused on these issues and so it's something that the agency is very focused on I would defer to someone like Leong to give you a lot of technical insight on that. Great, there are no other questions I'd like to do two things I'd like to thank Jonah and Mike for sharing their time with us and giving us all this information and hopefully inspiring it thanks a lot for ending with what you can do for all of you and the audience including students and then finally on behalf of Rachel and Chitanya and I thank you all for coming this quarter this is our last seminar for this quarter we'll see some of you doubtless in January when's the first seminar in January? January 8th so we're kind of offline until then but if you have any ideas for speakers continue to let them flow we benefit a lot from that kind of thing so with that said thanks one last time for coming today. Thank you.