 everybody and huge apologies for the delay just slightly. First of all I'd like to thank you all for your patience on today's webinar and I'd also like to welcome you. Exposing and engaging and taking your expos online is something we're all very excited about and we're incredibly excited to have our guests online today as well. My name is Sarah Gonzales for those of you who don't know me and I will be facilitating today's session. So as I just mentioned today is all about uncovering the online expo world and we will definitely try and make up time. Now I'm going to quickly introduce our guest Catherine Colville. She is the CEO of World Stage Expo and that's an Australian company that provides expo and trade fair organisers with an interactive online version to complement their live show. So from what we can see for those of you who registered we do have some people who are a little bit familiar with online expos. We have some people who have no idea what they are and then we've also got a bulk of you who would like to find out more and how they can add and what they can add to your online event. So without any further ado I'd like to pass it on to our lovely guest today Catherine. How are you today? I'm fine. Thank you Sarah. Thank you for having me. Hello everybody. It's nice to be here. Let's get started. Thank you. Okay I'd like to gauge the audience that we have today just on how familiar people are with online expos. Usually when I start talking about online expos people are not very familiar with them. They don't really know much about them so if I can just get an indication from everybody how much they know about expos. Sarah has a poll here so you can select multiple choice answers. You can pick as many as you like so if you wouldn't mind filling that out that would be great. Okay so we can see you know many people may have attended an online expo or either organised one. Maybe people are just interested in attending an online expo or attending one and then there's also people who have no idea and Catherine in your experience what's usually the most common response to this when you speak to people? Yes usually it's I have no idea but they're interested. Well there you go. The poll represents that so thank you everybody. We have 61% saying that they have absolutely no idea but they are also interested so thank you for your responses. We'll now get on with the show. Thank you. All right well I'll start with since most of you are not familiar with what an online expo is I'll tell you briefly what one is. Essentially it's a type of hybrid event. Hybrid events are those that have both a live audience as well as an audience that is online separate to the live audience. An online expo is a hybrid event that is specific to trade shows, expos, trade fairs that kind of thing. They're not actually new. They have been running for quite some time in the US. The USA has been doing them for over 10 years closer to about 12 to 15 now and most people over there are very familiar with it. It is a bigger industry than ours though and it isn't something that has been seen much over here just yet. It's something that will complement or supplement your live trade show or you can actually run one completely separately on its own with no live show attached. We do find though that if there is a live show it is far better to to complement that live show with an online expo and they can be promoted together. They have pretty much the same features as a live trade show expo so what you will see in them is a series of exhibitors stands. You'll have a whole lot of advertising. You can have sponsors highlighted. You can have an online show bag the same or even different to the show bag that visitors receive when they walk through the live event. You can have a speaker program as well and you can have your exhibitors being able to offer their show specials or do product launches and depending on what sort of online expo you run you can even have a shopping cart in the in the corner where people can purchase goods or products that are being promoted at the expo. So just in terms of what an online expo may look like there are usually two models that you can find. In the US their experience is generally with a 3D type of show. It's a virtual world. These are just some images, some static images of what a 3D expo can look like on your screen. When you enter it it's like walking into a virtual world. You're given an avatar. That avatar cruises around the expo. You can as your avatar walk up to a stand and engage with the exhibitor that's there. So essentially it can replicate what the live show looks like. These are quite technical. I will go through, I'll look at the different models for you and weigh up the pros and cons. With 3D model the pros are they are obviously very slick looking, very impressive. They're probably very very good for gaming and IT industry related expos just due to the technology and the amount of manoeuvring that's needed. It can be a bit like a game so like a video game. So they are the pros for the 3D modelling. I guess the cons for those that they can be quite expensive. The software and the technology that is behind them can be very expensive. And also depending on the quality of the technology I've used some that can be fairly clunky. You spend a lot of time using your mouse and arrow buttons to manoeuvre around between stands and trying to enter stands. And you possibly could lose some engagement between your visitors and your exhibitors in that regard if that's the case. So just to get this and perhaps just to put this all into perspective if I was to attend as an exhibitor at a live conference people would also be able to visit me online. Would I then need someone standing next to me to interact with those people online throughout the actual conference or is it something that happens after and before the conference? Depending on what software you have available to you you could do any or all. So it's the 2D model which I can take you through. If you were to do the 3D model the exhibitor can actually turn on buttons to say that they're at their stand and their stand is being manned and you could chat online with the exhibitor at that time. Or they might nominate certain hours that they're available to chat online or you can book appointments and things like that. So it is possible to be there and to be chatting live but you may need to have staff manning that chat. So that is very popular in the 3D modelling. If we have a look at the 2D modelling this is where it's more of a flat feature so it will look similar to your website. You can actually have it all branded to match your live show and usually live shows have a separate website promoting the live show. It can usually be accessed via a click through button from that website so it will be something like you can't get to the show or wish to visit again, visit online here and you'll do a click through button and you can have it as I guess fancy as you like in terms of your branding. You can have introduction pages where you might have a curtain that says welcome to the show and you register your visitors that way and then somewhere in that platform there will be what we call an interactive floor plan. So this won't just be a static floor plan like a lot of websites have that just simply shows a floor plan and the layout of their stand. This will be an interactive one where you can actually click on a stand, open the stand up and see who's in it. There's various ways you can do that. You can either have one like the one that you can see on your screen now where they have opened up a stand that has CH gourmet imports in that stand and you can see the details of their contact details. They may have a profile and a category there. It's quite small. It's like a little business card size information type thing or alternatively you could have a version that actually then opens that stand up so when you click on it it will be something similar to what you see on your screens now. This is a half a page so usually you would see a full page on that exhibitor. The exhibitor can put their show specials in. They could put brochures in as PDF versions. Any brochures that they're going to be handing out at their live show they can actually upload as PDF versions. You can have buttons such as chat online or book an appointment and have the option of turning those on. As an organiser you can choose whether you turn that on for everybody or whether you may actually get them to pay for the privilege of turning that on. Not all exhibitors may want that option so you can open that up to them. Essentially this method actually allows them to brand their stand as their own. My personal preference is somebody who has exhibited at quite a few shows and paid substantial amounts of money to be there for a couple of days. Personally I think the more you can offer to your exhibitors in terms of their own branding, of their own stand is better value for them. On your experience are you finding that people these days who are running these types of online expos using that as another added value with the exhibitors or they're charging more for that? Definitely. It's an added value. I'm actually going to talk a little bit about how you can add value for your exhibitors and also add value for yourselves as the organisers as a revenue stream. There are many many options for that and also added value for your visitors. I think online expos are a way of creating a win-win-win situation. You're creating value for your visitors and more opportunity to visit the show. You're creating value for your exhibitors in terms of more exposure and a greater visitor base and better branding and all the rest of it. Greater opportunity and you're actually creating a revenue stream for yourself as the organiser and also for associations it's an opportunity to do membership drives as well. There's quite a few positives about extending the show out to an online audience and not just limiting it to the live show and the foot traffic that can walk through the door on those couple of days. In terms just to recap on the 2D model the pros for those that they're quick and easy to use. So you get very quick engagement with people really come to expose to do business, to network, meet potential customers and for the customers that are visiting they you know they're there to do business too. So a quick and easy click option where you just you can see who's in a stand great I want to see them click on it open their stand up and see what they have to offer is to my way of thinking a little bit more beneficial than manoeuvring your avatar. Creating a person. But like I said there is a place for 3D versions as well potentially in a tech field. So the pros for the 2D is that it's less expensive as well to do it that way and you really do I think get greater exposure for your for your clients with their full page full page stand options. The cons you do need to be careful about the software that you choose in terms of the 2D modeling and and the platforms that you use in if it's not a very flexible model you may find that they can't be opened on iPads mobile phones things like that so there might be a limit to how they can be used. So it's fine if your visitor is sitting at home on a computer and can open it up but the mobile versions may not be able to be to do that so you just need to be careful in terms of what you're choosing in that regard. So I'll move on to the the question that you were asking just before now about you know why would you hold an online expo in conjunction with your live event and I think one one question people ask or one concern that they have is that you may lose your audience to your live show that it might cannibalize the the event that you're holding and you don't want that to happen obviously. So in terms of looking at the benefits of doing this and whether it will cannibalize the event we can look at various statistics here. The US experience has a lot of statistics going back over many years and what they have found is 82% of visitors that visited a hybrid event like webcasts and things like that would not only visit the online show but it was actually the thing that encouraged them to visit the live show the following year it was almost like a FOMO situation where there's a fear of missing out and the online version allowed them to see just how good the show was they made the decision to visit the live show the following year. We actually have done our own statistics we've exhibited at shows and surveyed both other exhibitors as well as visitors to the show and what we were finding we asked a couple questions. One of them was if if an online version of the show was available for them to visit would they visit online and we had 89% that graph on the left shows the answer yes that 89% of visitors would actually visit online and the second graph shows the answers to the question would they attend both the live event as well as the online event if it was available and 93% said that they would actually visit both. What we found was that they would use it as both a pre and post visit tool so in terms of the pre and post visit tool we found we did some more statistics on that 70% would visit prior to coming to the live show they would actually use it to see who was going to be at the show and check their stands out and see who they'd really like to connect with at that exhibition and in terms of if the show was up for a longer period of time after the live show has finished they only go for a couple of days if there was the option for the show to be up for one week three weeks three months six months however long you like and that's the great thing about online expo is you can choose how long you would like to extend the length of your show 91% said they would go back in because they never get the time to see everybody that they want to see at an expo if you've got more than 100 stands and you've got speakers on and things like that at different times of the day and often your visitors only have one day even if the show's on for two days they only have one day to visit the show take time off work or whatever to visit then they need to be able to get to see who they want to see and that's what Nicole Nicole just said about having you know going to experts as a visitor and not being able to see everyone imagine the opportunity to be able to decide on who you want to see before the show and then once it's over you know when you're at the show a lot of people like to focus on seeing the keynote speakers or looking at the workshops that are on and the networking events and then they can dedicate the time afterwards perhaps to go in and look at all the people who have anything else that's right or take advantage of show specials or there's so many times I've visited live shows and walked away and I didn't get a brochure and I I suddenly remembered you know a couple of weeks ago I had a connected with that person and you can even remember where their stand was but you didn't get any of their details or you can't remember the name of their company and you wish you could this way people can actually go back in and reconnect so in terms of of the engagement with your visitors you're you're actually extending your audience you can increase your attendee numbers as I said before you're not relying on the foot traffic through the door of the live show you can actually open it up there's so many people that often but there might be several shows on the same time or they're interstate or they're going away but would really love to go to that show but for whatever reason can't you've also got a whole section of community that maybe has mobility issues and this allows you to open that audience to those that either can't attend because they're in a different location can't attend because they're away somewhere can't attend because they can't get time off work or can't attend because there's mobility issues this allows you to open and extend that audience to all of those people yeah and just on that because you did briefly mention the cannibalization of and I know when people talk about webcasting or streaming their keynote sessions that does come up as well and one of the things is people market in the online version of their event a little bit different would you say there's some little tactics and tips and tricks for the marketing of your online expo to make sure that you do still get people turning up to the event well definitely look most most associations would have their own networking databases and you know you can really extend this as far as you like you can go regionally you can go interstate or you could even take it to a global level if you've got other associations in other countries that you want to open it up to their members to visit your show it really depends on the individual organization and who they're targeting and how far they want to target obviously for something like caravan and camping you may want to limit it to the national market because nobody wants to buy a caravan in Australia when they're living in China but you know it just depends really on who your target market is but it really does extend your show to up to a global scale obviously increasing the duration of your event also can increase your visitor numbers over time it allows you to do a longer marketing strategy you like and you can keep promoting it online and as did you miss our show well here it is please still visit so that actually engages with your audience better and it also allows your exhibitors to engage with their audience in a in a far greater way with greater exposure so what you're doing there is actually by engaging great a greater number of people and for a greater length of time you're adding a lot of value to your exhibitors who pay quite a substantial amount of money to be at what is usually quite a short show yeah to the physical people that can walk through the door in terms of the added value that you can give to your exhibitors you're obviously increasing engagement and networking there's a lot you can do in the online space in terms of networking exhibitors can network with each other they can network with with their end client the visitors to the show they can network with people in other countries who have similar products um and what you can also do for them is capture all of their leads for them by registering all the visitors that come through the online space you can literally hand them a database of their clients for the organizer as well you can capture your own data for marketing purposes so you're actually broadening your marketing strategy and your marketing opportunities for future years to grow your show over time so in future years you just keep building and building that database and you've got another advertising avenue to go down with that with that uh in terms of giving the data to your exhibitors it's really the organizer's choice whether they choose to give that to them for free or whether they choose to have another revenue stream through that and charge for that data um as someone who's been an exhibitor at shows um i've found it quite irritating that i've had to then pay extra on top of what i'm already paying to get those those leads and that data unlocked that's just my personal experience uh we it depends really on on what software you're using whether you choose to to charge for that we personally don't charge our organizers or our exhibitors for that for that data so um that and again that's come out of my experience of being an exhibitor and i think you choose want to do that yeah one of the things we find um at our when we exhibit as an organization is getting the leads that the salespeople are capturing and getting those into a database somewhere so we can consistently track them so i'm assuming like you said with this um you've got the technology online after when people are coming to your virtual stand you can capture that data and then possibly have it integrated with your other CRM platforms that's right as well yeah and it's not just a matter of um capturing their details so that you can promote or or maybe follow up a lead on a sale or something like that um it's all about knowing your numbers how many people visited that particular stand how many people walked through the virtual door yes um how long did they stay that kind of data actually a lot of that is limited um when you experiencing it at a live show you can count how many people walk through the door but you can't necessarily tell how long they stayed or who they visited at the show yes the individual exhibitor may have that information if they chose to hire a scanner of some sort or and unlock their data yes but for everybody else you may not be able to tell just how long they stayed how many times they came in and out this allows you to capture all of that data good point so some shows some live shows do but they tend to be quite expensive too so this way if um if associations are looking to find out that information and they don't get that from their live shows now then this is an opportunity to do that the other thing you're doing is you're using up-to-date technology and one of the things we're finding with this is that the younger generations this definitely appeals to so if you're looking to over time increase and engage with your younger generation audiences I mean if we just followed the same path that we're that we're all on now then there's a limit to to who comes in I guess but um if you're wanting to extend your show to future generations and keep it going and keep it up-to-date and um and exciting then the younger generations definitely appeal although having said that um apparently the statistics are that the generations that are most online with all these things are actually the sort of 35 to 50 year olds now yeah and so um everyone just loves this business world um and I think there's also you know an expectation these days that people offer an online system of some sort and because that is the up-to-date technology so you're doing that but you're added value um in terms of what this means and the benefits that it brings to um the organisers of the show then it it can result in a substantial increased revenue um even though these things cost can cost money upfront um you can usually if you choose the right software and the right platform um it can allow you to actually get your online expo for free without you know even though you're paying for out front and actually make a revenue on top of it so the way that can happen is um through several methods you can use it to increase membership opportunities so you might have members only areas in your online expo where members of your associations who have membership numbers can enter by providing their membership number in there um and if somebody tries to enter who's not or you might give them a glimpse of what's in there maybe some important speakers um come and see who's speaking today and if anyone's not a member but is interested in hearing them speak you can actually have a pop-up that says become a member come and sit here this person speaks so you can use it to drive membership um and increase revenue that way the other ways you can increase revenue is through all of your normal things that you would do at a live show so a lot of people charge a lot of organisers charge for the advertiser um that exhibitors if exhibitors want their name up in lights or front seats that will charge extra sponsorships again as well is something that you can pay extra for as an exhibitor all of that can still happen online you can have advertisements that are flicking through the screens you can have permanent logos front and center on your front pages um you can have an online show bag that people um pay a bit extra to be in or to advertise their show specials um your speaker programs as i mentioned it may not just be for members necessarily if um if anyone has a sort of closed room with a speaker program in it quite often i've been to shows that will charge 15 per speaker and others will charge 15 per half day and you get tickets to go and see three to five speakers in that half day period you can do the same thing online you can actually allow people to choose which speakers they see and again for your visitors if they are at the live show and can only spend one day there but really wanted to see a speaker that was on the second day this gives them the opportunity to also visit again and come back in and um you know they can pay to see another speaker or somebody that really interests them so this ties into uh just quickly um just before when we sent out the invitation for this and people registered there were a few people who couldn't attend but they actually said that they would submit questions um and Jenny actually submitted a question and she was asking because they as an organization they stream their events through webcasting so is that something that can be tied into this so you could have both the speakers online through a streaming component and then the excel as well so people get the entire experience exactly exactly so it can be become a complete hybrid event in that regard um and also you can archive them so if you if you're choosing to keep the show the online show up for three months say after the live show has closed yes then you can still have those um speakers recorded and their presentations accessed and you can choose whether you charge to that or so you can keep getting a revenue stream that way as well cool um and of course you have the choice of whether you charge your exhibitors extra fee to be online as well and as an exhibitor with the on-demand content if I wanted to if I had a show special for example and then I wanted to just say my online expert was going to be hosted online for three months time yeah would I be able to change up that special and change up any sort of promotional marketing material that I wanted to you could it depends on the software you use as to whether uh that can happen or not but but what wouldn't the software that we use and have designed um specifically allows for that to happen where we actually have an exhibitor login so the exhibitor okay can actually control what they what they put in um again you may choose to charge to that privilege or um allow them to to do that themselves I think the important thing for associations um and not for and the not-for-profit sector is that they have um some flexibility in the software um in terms of what they want to offer to their exhibitors some organizations do not want to pass on additional costs um and therefore would rather you know choose a basic model and just have everybody doing the same thing um and have access to certain things and then others would would prefer it to be um an opportunity to really increase the success of their show financially and and from a visitor but visitor point of view and attendee numbers um I'm just looking at some of the questions coming yeah I might go to some of those um and I'll just read out one um more from Nicole as a comment um that online experts allow small organizations that maybe cannot afford to send all their staff they could encourage them to go online as well so it could save an organization money which is another benefit to what we're seeing um and Emma's just asked and this is what we just briefed on so do you see many expos that are exclusively online these days um I have seen a few but not many yeah most most of them will be in conjunction with a live a live show yes um I also think an important question that came came up uh is the issue of privacy and um how these databases used and I think Carly answers the question and she's correct in saying it depends on what terms and conditions you place on the at the very front when people um are registered as a as a visitor so that can be really in the control of the organizer as to what sort of um I guess terms and conditions they'd they'd like to use the database for yeah um I think those are the questions that have come through but if anyone does have any more um please let us know um we just want to go into now just quickly before we finish up you know we know what the benefits are of online expos we know how they work we've seen some examples and we know obviously there's a case for them but what do you need to run one what sort of investment can you expect to make and also for people out there in webinar land um you know what should you be looking for when you're going out there you decide if you want to run an online expo as part of your next conference what should you be asking the providers out there to make sure that you get it right the first time um because it is quite a new experience for many what sort of questions should you be asking okay so essentially what you would need to run an online expo is you need um a good online expo software package or platform um that that suits your needs so whether it's 3d version or whether it's a 2d version you need to make that decision you need to make these decisions fairly early on you recently held a um a webcast with max and criss on hybrid events and the same thing applies they said don't leave it too late to make the decision when you're starting very at the very outset planning your show your event your live event that's when you should really start thinking about whether you want to have an online show or not it's not something that can be done at the very last minute yeah and implemented um what you also need is um someone very tech savvy an it team um i wouldn't recommend you try to do the live show and the online show yourself it can be quite complicated you need somebody to manage the back end yeah somebody who understands how to give tech support um if you're going with the 2d models and things like that you still need people that can code a floor plan so um it's it's important that if you want to be able to open up those floor plans and have it so interactive for those who are attending there's a lot of coding involved in all of that um you probably need to look at an online marketing strategy yeah having that um you need to look at you know seo search engine type things the costs involved in promoting it online how often are you going to do that things like that and uh and what's involved um our company does a lot of the advertising as part of the package so um you know that's something to look at as well when you're selecting you know other does everybody offer that what sort of soft are you buying the software and running it yourself yes so what are the additional costs in terms of of advertising um and promoting it online i think as well in some cases if you're going to be recording speakers or doing videos and things like that you possibly need videographers involved and people you can run that sort of thing um and if you do need that you need to understand if you're using a provider to do that for you then you need to make sure you understand exactly what they offer as part of their their package prices in terms of um the platforms or software that you use i think what is most important for associations is that they it is very flexible it's a flexible product that they're using in terms of um them having control over what features they want to turn on turn off um charge for not charge for every association and the expos that they run are going to be very different um one of the tricky things in dealing with the expo industry is that every show is different every show has a different number of stands um everybody's paying different amounts for their stands some some stands are only a thousand dollars others are i've seen 80 to a hundred thousand dollars for a couple of days so it varies so much in terms of just um you know how big the show is or how much it's costing so i think it's very important for associations to have a very flexible product that allows them to create the show that they want online and how much they charge their exhibitors so if you can look for a package that is a flat like a flat seat yeah essentially that but that has all the flexibility built into it it's something that we've tried to specialize in um and the other thing i will say is i think you also need to make sure that you can the software or the platform that you're using for your online expo can can connect to your existing uh tech functions like if you've already got an app you probably want to make sure that what you're using can connect and link in with your app or your existing website and that it doesn't become a yet another standalone thing they all need to be able to integrate together and all be linked together um and they all do different things apps are different to online expo they're limited in what you can offer but i think it's really important that an app can link into the software and vice versa so that's so common now aren't they they're very common yeah yeah there's not many expo's and traders don't have an app yeah people will will pay a lot of money for an app yeah um you want to make sure that if you've already spent that money that whatever you use can connect into it and absolutely in conjunction so yeah um i've just launched a quick survey just to get some feedback from everyone um and also there's a question down the bottom um if you'd like to see an online demo of how an online expo works how apt is that um um you can just yes and then Catherine's getting touched with you and show share we do some examples um so people who have done it before in the past what has worked what hasn't worked and also take you around the world stage expo platform if it's something you're interested in um now just a few more questions coming through before yeah which is excellent keep them coming through guys so Andrew can I put more exhibitors on my online expo if I run out of physical space and Tony's and just said that doing that could impact existing exhibitors so what are your thoughts on that and the conflict that could possibly arise well they're both excellent questions and excellent comments um the answer to Andrew's question is absolutely if you run out of physical space and you want to expand your show and and obviously that means creating more revenue you can charge maybe more um if if sorry I didn't explain it very well if you have an online expo running in conjunction with your live show and your exhibitors are are either not being charged to be in the online show yep or maybe they're being charged a little bit extra maybe you know between three and five hundred dollars would be probably something I mean people pay three hundred and fifty dollars just to have a piece of paper in the show back so charging you know each each exhibit are an extra three hundred to five hundred dollars to be online as well and giving them greater exposure and added value I don't think they would balk at so if you're looking to increase revenue that way you can maybe if you then run out of physical space anyone who wishes to come into the online environment really wants to be part of the show but missed out on getting a stand maybe you charge them five thousand dollars to be in that space um or you know it's really up to the individual organization Tony Lee has has a very good point that it's correct but it really depends on how the individual organization or organizer um chooses to handle that situation yeah I think that as an exhibitor as we exhibit as well there'd be so much to take into consideration you know exhibitors usually attend regularly on a regular basis and you have these relationships and some of them may even be your partners or sponsors and then you know in terms of your marketing strategy how do you make sure you're not cannibalizing those people who attend regularly so I think I think you're spot on when you say you know having your online marketing strategy and figuring this all out in advance is incredibly important to get it right from the beginning um also the various in answer that question yeah do it you can do it Andrew has a very good point and but um I think if Tony has concerns about it then it would just be a matter of looking at the options and working out how to not have that happen and I think there's plenty of opportunities in the online environment to make sure that doesn't happen yeah absolutely um this is a question that I'm actually um looking forward to hearing the answer to because I love this idea from Chris so can the attendees at an online expo be integrated into CRM systems now Carly said that the data is exportable but can they is there an API that just connects to any certain CRMs um as an example with your platform yes yes our platform does but if um you just need to make sure that the whatever software or brand of online expo you're using or platform you need to ask that question each time yeah that provider because um not all of them necessarily can yes you need to make sure um and you want it to be quite save wasn't you and just another comment from Tony um so you know she thinks it's very important that if you are going to charge exhibitors to be part of the online then it's vital that you give them service mark at the online portion well make sure you have that strategy right um as you spoke about before um and if it's an add-on to the existing package for the exhibitor then you can see how your visitors take up the online expo so I think you right it totally is about your audience about the industry that you're in about what sort of conferences you hold um and how it could potentially work because there's so many elements of an online expo that you could apply you know everything or one or two different portions exactly and as I said every association is different all of their trade shows are different so you need to have a product that works for your organization and what you're intending for your exhibitors and your audience so um it's really important that you get a flexible product in that regard yeah interesting um all right just we're pretty much wrapped up here so um I'll just hand it back over to Catherine for closing comments I'd just like to thank everyone for joining for also providing your feedback um and for your patience at the beginning this is very exciting stuff um so if you have any questions for Catherine or um Redback please let us know and we can either pass them on to her or you can contact her directly like I said it's great to be able to share these sorts of new technologies with everyone online so thank you um we just don't know what happens when the wine show has an online expo oh no we might need to organize that somehow um so you know Nicole's also mentioned that she's surveyed people about this idea um and they're excited as well so closing comments last piece of advice and wisdom from the wonderful Catherine well I could actually probably go into a lot more do yeah that gazing from the questions and the comments are coming I think there's probably a lot more that can be said in detail so if anyone would like to find out more or discuss anything more in detail please feel free to give me a call um if they'd like to see a demo of of uh the types of of expos you can do then um please contact us because we do have some demonstration models that we can show you um and if you want to see one that's coming up and in full working order there's the nappian disability expo coming up in September on the 12th and 13th September um which that'll be a good example you can go in and have a look at if you'd like um so if you google nappian disability expo or if you go to www.disability expo.org.au it's a it's a not-for-profit one um and the NRL is supporting them which is very exciting so it's quite a big one they have over 110 exhibitors so it's a substantial size show and you'll be able to see what what they want they've used a fairly basic model um but it will give you an indication of um what it's like yeah well um keep an eye out for an email we'll send through in within 48 hours containing a recording of this presentation so you can share that with your colleagues um as well as katharine's details and a link to that online expo so you guys can hop online and check it out for yourselves and i think with these sorts of things it makes so much more sense to see it in action in a live environment so um yeah keep an eye out for the email guys okay so rebecca's just actually asked us to forward the contact details i'll include those in the email as well yes so everyone can contact you whenever they like thanks everyone enjoy the rest of your day bye