 I can begin with, whoops, so I'll just begin by calling the meeting to order at 6.04 p.m. July 22nd, 2020, and so repeat the preamble we've done at our Zoom-based meetings based on Governor Bacon's executive order suspending certain provisions of the open meeting law signed Thursday, March 12th, 2020. This meeting is being held virtually using the Zoom platform. I'm Jane Wald and the chair of the Amherst Historical Commission. I'm calling this meeting to order at 6.04 p.m. This meeting is being recorded and minutes are being taken as usual. So now I'll take a roll call to establish a quorum of commission members. As you hear your name called, unmute yourself if you're muted. Answer affirmatively and then please place yourselves back on mute. So Patricia Hall. Present. Robin Fordham. Not present, at least not yet. Janet Marquardt. Present. Jane Scheffler. Here. Heddy Startup. Present. Jane Wald. I'm present too. So during the meeting, as we go through the agenda, please use the raise hand function to ask a question or make a comment and I'll keep my eye out for the raised hand and call on you to speak. After speaking, remember to re-mute yourself. So first on our agenda is announcements. I have a question about minutes of the June 24th meeting. Are we waiting on a final version of that or are we all set with that? So we're all set. I was not able to find the vote count that Jan had had pointed out was missing. And so I emailed the version just without that in it to Nate. And then at some point, if I can figure out how to get access to the old meetings on YouTube or wherever they are, I'll go back and get that put in. Okay. Thank you, Jane. And then we'll just, we'll take up the minutes at the next meeting. Yeah, sure. Yeah, we can do that. And I will say that the YouTube channel, interestingly enough, I can't watch it on my Chrome browser. It always errors out, but if I'm in Safari on a Mac, it works. So I haven't figured out why it doesn't work in some, you know, in one web browser or the other. But I had a lot of difficulty playing back those videos. Yeah, I might be able to help with that if someone just wants to shoot me an email. I know where the videos are. I can find that. Just to let you know, there's three members in attendance. And so, you know, just let everyone know this is a webinar. And so attendee, the commission are panelists and so they can see each other and speak freely. And members of the public in attendance, you could click raise your hand if you have a question and we can call on you. Okay, thank you. Are there any other announcements? Okay. Next is a discussion of the demolition bylaw and the July 7th workshop with Chris Scali of the Massachusetts Historical Commission. Nate, you sent out a number of attachments and some points that you thought were that should particularly be discussed. Would you like to introduce those? Jay, I just want to say that Anika is here and she, you know, speaks on behalf of the Civil War tablets. I don't know if we want to go out of order just so this becomes a longer discussion before we jump into it if we want to have a discussion of Civil War tablets before the demolition. I think the discussion of the demolition bylaw will probably be lengthy. So why don't we go to an update on discussion of the Civil War tablets? Sure. Anika, I'm promoting you to panelists so you can just, you'll be able to see everyone. So I didn't want to throw a wrench in the order there. I just wanted to not have her sit on an hour. Sure. Okay. Hi, Anika. Nice, nice to have you back. You can unmute yourself. Hi there. Hi. Hi everyone. Nice to see you again. Welcome back. Thank you. So let's see an update on site visit. Ben, do you want to speak to that? Yeah, basically I, based off our discussion last meeting and in talks with Nate, we kind of figured the logical next step would just be to go see the tablets at the, they're at the DPW site in North Amherst. And so basically I'm just trying to find a date that works. Well, one, the purpose, I'm trying to see one who from the Historical Commission would like to come. I'm also trying to coordinate with the restoration consultants that we worked with to see if they would like to join as well. And, you know, maybe they would be the limiting factor for when they happen to be in Western Mass, or if they're willing to drive up here from Connecticut. So I've been in touch with the DPW Superintendent, Gilford. And as far as we know, if we just want to see like the topmost tablet, the one that's the most accessible, it's fairly straightforward to just open up that one box to see the one tablet. But if we wanted to see all the tablets and kind of lay them out nicely and, you know, and look at each one, it would be more involved of the process because, you know, you'd probably need a forklift. It would involve handling the tablets quite a bit and, you know, and then having to close them all back up and put them back in storage. So as of now, we're leaning towards just looking at one one tablet, the one that's the most accessible. But I think that's still open for discussion. So that's pretty much as far as it's gotten at this point. I haven't heard back from the restoration consultants yet about a date that they might happen to be here. So I'm just kind of waiting to hear from a few different soaps at this point. Yeah, I mean, I think for the commission, it is, you know, it'd be great, you know, people have to stagger the site visit if you know, a lot of people want to attend. So I think that's, you know, a lot of commission members want to attend and a few in your team want to attend. I mentioned in an email, we could stagger times. I think a big part of the discussion is, you know, do we would we like to see all the tablets or just the top, you know, the top one, essentially, they're, you know, in these crates that are leaning, you know, stacked up, you know, deep, you know, so many deep. And so EPW indicated they could move them all around. It is a little bit more work. So I think that's something to discuss. I mean, do we want to get them all out and invisible or is it okay just to see the top one to see, you know, is that representative of the rest? I see Jan's hand and then down and then Teddy. Yeah, I can't figure out how to do the hand up on the, this point, so I'm just using my hands. How do we have a condition report on them right now before they were put into storage that we can look at? The consultant's cleaning report, you know, so is a admissions report. Okay. And then Howard, what kind of crates are they in? Do we know that they've been completely protected or is there a chance of them being damaged? Marble is incredibly delicate. You know, what? Yeah. I'm going to try to just pull up the report. The, they were in, this was meant to be, you know, temporary storage. So the consultants created, you know, wooden frames that they were in that were hinged. And so they had a backing and then they placed the crates in those and then they put foam insulation around them and then, you know, they closed the front of those and probably they're, they're attached, you know, maybe by screws. And so they're secure in their crates, but they're not, you know, a while ago when we were thinking about bringing them to Town Hall, the consultant said, if we wanted to move them, you know, hire a rigging company and, you know, maybe the thought would be they'd have to be, the crates would have to be reinforced. So, you know, they're fine if they're not moved around a lot, but, you know, I don't think that the crates were meant to be, you know, something that they're in long term or to be transported in. Yeah, I wouldn't move them for us if we didn't have to. I think every time you move them, there's a possibility of damage. And I'd be curious to know what kind of wood, if it was just like pine or poplar or if they use something like oak, like hard handling materials. Right. You know, but if we have a complete description when they clean them and we haven't moved them and they aren't sitting on top of each other, the bottom one might have gotten crushed. I think we can pretty well assume that reading that and seeing one would be enough. Right. Ben, did you have a comment? Nope. Okay. Hedy, and then Anika, I thought I saw your hand up also, but Hedy, why don't you make your comment and then let's invite Anika. I think my only question, Jane, would be, is there any kind of photographic documentation that exists for each panel so that we could be satisfied by seeing one on top that the others would be sort of available as photographic records for now? I like, Jane, I'm concerned about just how fragile they might be and also how extensive an undertaking it would be to have a forklift truck come in as well. There's some trying to share the cleaning report and it doesn't get into how they're created. I have a picture of that, but this is the cleaning. These are the photographs of them after restoration. This to me is what the crate would look like, the picture on the right. They put foam above it and around it and then they enclosed it with, it looks just like two by fours. It was only meant to be a temporary storage. These were the setup for the restoration and you can see what the crating looks like. It wasn't meant to be a serious structure around them. That's good to know. Anika, did you have a comment? Can you hear me? Yes, we can hear you. Yes, well, I agree with everything that's been brought up so far. Another something positive in regards to just seeing even one tablet would be that we would know whether there was any permanent color transfer from that foam, had this bled into the tablets and hopefully be able to determine if as brought up, if they are stacked heavily on top, is there any evidence to suggest that something on the bottom may have been cracked? It's probably an overall general idea of condition. Do we have photos of every tablet or just what's part of this report? Just what is part of this report? There wasn't, I think they have every tablet, but it wasn't necessarily in order or done so that you could say this is the sequence of tablets as they were originally displayed. We could probably presume that they're all in this kind of state, that if there was destruction or there were issues with any one of the tablets, one would assume that the conservation company would have photographed it and let us know. Right, I mean they said that there are stress fractures in some and they're visible cracks and others, but they're all intact at the time of restoration. They noted that they were showing their age, but not that there was anything that was really wrong with them. I think one of the plaques had a corner cut off from display in Town Hall, it was near the railing of the stairs and so that's not from anything other than the way they were displayed at one time. So then if that's the case, it probably would be best just to look at the top one then to risk moving them around to see what we can see through photographs for the most part. And I just forwarded to commission the email with this report and a few other you know documents on the tablets just so it's fresh in the email. All right and then in terms of commission members wanting to attend, you know I think we could just do a doodle poll then and you know if any if all of us want to attend that's fine and we could just then come up with you know whether you know Ben or I have to be there for an hour and work with people to come in and shifts we can do that. I'm you know I'm okay with that. Thanks and that would also include Anika and the group that's interested in this. Yes. Yes. Yeah so I guess Ben we can email Anika and find out how many people that would be and you know you have two or three people at a time and you know have it in some shifts. Yeah that sounds great. Yeah I was really hoping the consultants were they last year we about a year ago we emailed them and they were they were very willing to come out and I think they may have even come out unannounced but I don't think they realized that where the they came I think they emailed Brandon at the time they said oh we're here today and it was like oh well we don't know that I think they may have seen the tablets or I'm not I can't remember if they even got in to see them but they're you know they're they're regional so they're they're willing to come out which is nice I'm hoping they're probably in the field a lot now but I'm hoping they can get back to us. So question for the commission is whether this first step of going to look at the tablets is is a good first step or whether we want to discuss how the commission wants to be involved in sort of organizing how they would eventually be displayed. Could I just ask a question what is the status of of Anika's group versus the historical commission I think that would would give shed some light on our our role in the process. I can say that we were able to go and actually visit the proposed outdoor sites which was definitely motivating but we are certainly at a point where we would really need to know something about the condition at least being able to see the top black and get an idea of what the the condition for the rest of them would be before we would be able to fully move forward and present with our proposal that's where we are to be able to know what is based on the condition how will they was what would they be able to withstand design wise and every other way that we would need to be able to present to any design team for fundraising or otherwise. Yeah I think you know for the commission so you know we staff suggested you know outdoor sites for these tablets and you know originally the thought was maybe to go into the expanded library and I'm not sure that's a possibility the question is you know what is a publicly accessible space that people can view these in it you know so that's one you know what what is a good space is indoor outdoor and then you know I think they're better suited to be seen in their entirety whether it's a series or in one space but not you know have two tablets say in town hall and then two tablets in the library and spread them out so you know I think you know a few of those parameters could be part of the discussion maybe they're really not maybe there's not much of a discussion there but I think that could help frame it a little bit if we're thinking okay there really aren't many buildings they could go in then it's outside what are the locations outside and then you know what are the constraints or guidelines for having them displayed outside in terms of you know any design considerations you know protection from elements vandalism humidity lighting at night I mean things of that nature but you know I'm not sure the library uh is you know would work anymore so whose hand your hand Jen no it wasn't my hand but I did want to say like I would rather see them inside I think putting them outside and having to put them in some sort of I don't know plexiglass or something and worry about vandalism and humidity and marble is not a very good stone you know I think you're asking for trouble putting them outside I'd love to see them on it in an interior space with air conditioning you know humidity control I know we don't have a space easily found but it makes sense to me okay just maybe one I have a question of clarification about the role of Anika's group you mentioned that you're at a point now where you need to know about the condition of the tablets in order to you know start thinking about design options and a design team and fundraising so this is this may be a question for multiple people including town staff and that is how does a so if the civil war tablets are if they're the property of the town and the group wants to assist with that project that's been the historical permission to what functions can the historical permission turn over and what should it retain that's a good question thank you and I think that was kind of what I was getting at when I wanted to know the status of of Anika's group because how it how it connects with the Amherst Historical Commission and what the various roles are intended to be vis-a-vis the town so is that some maybe that's if Anika perhaps you'd like to comment on it also but if that's not something any one of us at this moment knows we might need to go back and see if there's any sort of guidelines or about that yeah I mean it's interesting I think you know the question of ownership is really interesting and the role of commission I mean you know I thought that the commission can be an advocate and work with Anika and her team to you know and then I yeah I guess that's something that as moves forward and it progresses we have to you know I can talk to other staff about what is you know some of those finer details you know I guess I haven't I thought about it but it hasn't really been you know it being asked tonight kind of solidifies that we need to have maybe a little more framework to it well have we imagined all along that DPW would do the actual moving and installation I had not imagined okay an outside company yeah just mean possibly they could my you know I'd like to have the conservators weigh in on you know what what is the best like I said when speaking with them a while ago they mentioned the rigging company just because they could have insurance and they have the experience uh you know to get them you know they're heavy so this changes the budget that's all I'm just trying to think of you know right right we thought of this yeah no I mean I don't yeah I mean moving around in a forklift just scares me and so you know my thought is you know they have to be really carefully placed and transported mm-hmm yeah yeah maybe we could look into that question in the next month because I mean I think they really admire what what you're doing Anika and want your group to be as successful as possible because this is a terrific resource an important part of important part of the town's history so um we'll we'll look into that finer point I think you know Jan you said indoors I mean I think some of it is you know kind of brainstorming what could be possible location so you know we you know there are some nice outdoor ones you know for instance Kendrick Park you know the common outside town hall maybe Sweetser Park I mean there's areas that are centrally located that you know if they're outside and it's an plaza it's visible to almost any visitor and so you know are there other interior locations that could be used I guess I'm thinking if you put it in a park or something I would rather see them say you know how we had the design to the north common and how those knee walls I would rather see them embedded in a wall with some sort of plexiglass cover then have them just hanging on some artificial wall with a case around them or something I'd like I'd like to see them more permanently mounted more securely mounted and then protected but not sticking out like some sort of temporary art exhibit or something it just seems awkward and and it doesn't really fit into the environment whereas if they were part of a wall or part of a divider part of something that was already built into the landscape it would make more sense you know I just I'm wondering if if any thoughts been given to the bank center in a way that Jen's describing because that is a town facility and gets a lot of foot traffic actually it would be protected there I just I would have to look at the hallway wall space or the large meeting room wall space or whatever but anyway I'm sharing that plot with you the ideal place would have been that corridor between the library and the historical museum museum yeah the history museum but that's no longer in the plan that just was so ideal it's hard to think beyond it I guess we could build you know a planter approximately that high and long almost any in any park I just think it should be incorporated somehow yeah I mean I'd like to think that we could incorporate a landscape design or something now even if they were even if they were mounted and it was somewhat more of you know an art display it you know it's then built in around there's a plaza or something built around it so it's it's a cohesive design not you know let's just a plaza you know what I mean not just like here's this thing sticking over off the sidewalk in a corner actually the ones at Amherst college on that staircase right you know on each side those are part of a structural um integration into this entire staircase and you know up to a quad and everything it makes it makes a lot of sense even though it is it's on space you're right it would be you know some sort of plaza I guess yeah may I ask a question um I think that we all whether it's indoors or outdoors would agree that the you know however it's um housed the design how this display should be you know as best as it can be and you know suit the town and where it is um I'm not sure if Dr. Amelka Shabaz is on the call now but he is particularly interested in hearing about you know indoor options so I'm wondering if it is possible because I know that there are many other things on the agenda if we meet as a group to maybe further discuss options and ideas because we have you know there may be other outdoor or indoor options that we do not know about or haven't thought about and that you all have um to just maybe be on the same page and you know for us just to be able to hear and just chat together share those maybe initial thoughts um it would be nice if there's a time that maybe you know we can do that or we can develop a little extra time that would be allotted on the agenda yes we'll do that I think that's all good you know we should um devote more time to it in a kind of focused way and come yeah we could make a list and then some things like the library you know we could go back and talk about the design of that and where they are and whether it could be modified or something if we had that as one of our top options same thing with the north common right because I know it was just so inspiring even just standing on certain you know different places and when you can really envision them often it's you know as you see that there could be you know so many places that they you know could work of course this is independent of design because that really is equally as important um but just there's many places that you know they could be seen and visible and you know welcoming and you know just provide another attraction for the town so can we um what would there be time on our next agenda for our next meeting yeah I was just making some notes for instance we could have some bullets under uh the tablets you know we could have like you know locations for display as a sub-bullet you know design considerations maybe other parameters yes we could have a little more of a detailed discussion outline you know as you were talking I was even thinking like you know where um you know along the Amherst Cinema building you know there's the um it's almost like a covered portico but for instance you know it's like is there even a space like that that is somewhat covered where they could go and if the town easement or something uh was you know could have an easement there would that be you know a nice space something like that I is there a wall on the west cemetery that isn't a building that's a separate wall that belongs to the town uh not really you know there's just the fence the perimeter fence yeah maybe it could be made into a wall part of it or something all right well I think we have uh we have a plan for a visit and a plan to continue our conversation in a organized uh bulletin list of items to to discuss so we'll come back at our next meeting to this topic and hope that that you and me and your colleagues can join us sounds good great and I need to look for an email from Ben or myself and we can try to get we'll maybe have a doodle poll for everyone just to set up a time you know you can block off an hour an hour and a half for a site visit all right okay thank you for having me I'll say goodbye I did notice that you had further down on your agenda something regarding the the west cemetery and Nate I was actually going to call you in regards to that I do have multiple relatives that this is our final resting place so I'll send just a little my inquiry to yourself the commission sometime over the weekend great all right yeah thanks all right I look forward to hearing from you soon okay thank you okay thank you bye bye so we're going up to um discussion of the demolition bylaw and the workshop yeah well thanks everyone for going out of order I thought there's some good points right up there I just so the demolition workshop I think you know I thought Chris Kelly gave us a lot of the staff and commission a lot to consider in terms of what you know what do we want out of a demolition bylaw and so I think I can share the screen I have you know the version that Jane and Robin have worked on there's the mass historic template and then there's a version that you know Rob Moore the building commissioner developed last year so we have three working drafts of a possible demolition bylaw I think for me you know I almost want to have the commission step back and say okay what do we think the purpose of the demolition bylaw is Chris did that in photos is it to stop you know the demolition of the building in its entirety or a percentage of it or do we care about if people are removing trim and then from there you know it's like you know so that to me is you know some discussion then you know the threshold for what even gets what triggers an application is important you know is it just an age number and I guess the one other piece that really surprised me was that in many communities the decision of if it's a significant and as is an administrative decision and so the commission spends a lot of time actually determining if it's significant and so I mean that's a huge shift so all of a sudden maybe have a few conditions or guidelines in the bylaw but then all of a sudden it's you know it could just be staff it could be staff in the chair or a commissioner making that decision seems like a big shift you know what it does is it puts the commission in a position to really discuss should it be preserved and so then that's when the commission could possibly discuss you know what what what are the future plans so for instance if it's being replicated or a new building is going to be you know similar maybe that's okay that's when the context of the streetscape and surroundings could be discussed so it's not just you know what is its historic you know character but also what you know what are some other factors I just but I think that's a pretty big shift you know and so I think in the draft bylaws that have been presented that wasn't really clear you know that we still kept that with the commission so to me that's a pretty big change and so I don't know I mean I had other points in my email but I think there's a lot to consider I so sorry this is okay yeah well so I was gonna say I think one thing that I've been thinking about since we did that workshop with Chris is I think I like the idea of talking about the points that Nate laid out and then kind of going back what I was thinking is I could go back and using the guidebook plus what we had and the other the mister more of the building commissioners draft see if I can come up with something that would be kind of a new starting point for us um and then we can all kind of go from there just because I think some of it is like I think it's helpful if we know like what do we want the purpose of the demolition delay bylaws to be and the threshold and the process and then I think that will really determine how we want the bylaw written and that at least gives us a starting point and so I think even though we have all these different drafts we may want to still consider that we kind of almost in a way pretend like we don't have anything so that we can feel free to really make it what we want it to be and I would vote I really like the idea of preferably preserved I would vote that we have a very good template for determining significance except for a couple that are vague that we always stumble over right and if we could tighten those and give those to staff and trust them to apply them and then things come to us at the preferably preserved point I think that would be a much more interesting and useful point for us to get involved however I think we're going to have to figure out what is the division between that discussion and what the design review board does right now design review board is only the what is it the air inside business area or something there's an actual name for that it's not the bid but if there's a design review district that covers a fair amount of downtown and then there's an area around the town common so right and all we look at are things like signs and lighting and windows and stuff I don't think there's are there any houses within that we don't look at houses ever it's on business right yeah so maybe that would be the distinction Nate a business versus well no because there's some businesses that the historical commission that's at some buildings but there'd have to be something there or fold them together or something but then we'd have we'd be meeting a lot again because we'd be looking at things like whether a sushi place has the right shape s you know I mean on their side the historical commission shouldn't be looking at but I think it's a really I really like the idea of throwing it out using the template from Chris Skelly and his also his his set of steps to go before the hearing and everything he had a very clear layout totally different from what we do one one question I'm sorry right it just seems that on the table is that issue of the two-step process and that's major compared to how this has been done in in recent times and so I think we need to partialize the things that we need to look at and weigh in on that being one of them mm-hmm also a question of fines and moratorium on new construction to the applicant and to the commission and to the public interest also that kind of use step and if there's doubt we could err on the side of caution but it makes sense for the commission to focus on whether the structure should be preferably preserved but on the question of significance it looks like our criteria for determining significance are maybe a little more detailed than some other in particular the the criterion about geographic importance seems a little bit like an outlier I think than I looked at the national register criteria as Chris suggested and it's not got geographic importance it's got I think it's potential for historic information something like that which is also a little you know that's going to be a little bit hard to some of them overlap too because of those three categories that some of these things overlap like like it's a significant location and then there's the whole thing about geographic but it can be a significant location under historical or under architectural remember you know some of them are redundant to be simplified a little yeah and I yeah I think because they're redundant it they can be so if we simplify it just for determining significance and that I think helps to clean up the the two-step process that where there's administrative review on one end with that set of criteria and then a discussion preservation with a and we could ask that when it comes to us with the designation significant we could ask what the criteria were that they applied yeah I guess if something didn't we'd never know so we wouldn't get like things that didn't pass that and why would we well I mean you know the local sort of district commission was supposed to happen at you know a monthly meeting or some meeting is that staff would report on what applications came in and what was excluded from review so the idea could be you know an agenda item might be every other month is a report on demolition applications and you know that didn't make it to the hearing process or transmission review one thing I thought um and if we wanted if we were going to do the two-step process where we we had someone we had staff determine or like staff and the chair determined significant structure and then um and then the it not come to the historic mission is if we created like because we'd have a list of what a significant structure means we almost have like a checklist that goes with it and so after like as it gets reviewed by staff and the chair of the historic commission if they basically check the boxes and then when it gets presented to us as like this did not come to us because of these then we have we have it in writing what boxes it checked versus what it didn't so that there's like an actual physical checklist. I think that goes back to the when we were talking with Chris about the transparency if we were going to have the two-step process the first step had to have a lot of clarity to either move to the historical commission or recommend that it doesn't so so Jane I think that that the clarity begins there. Yeah I mean my thought is once if it's found significant then it automatically goes through demolition hearing so there's no what's nice about that process is there's no um there's no question about it so then the commission can really like Jan said focus on should it be preserved and if we have some guidelines in the bylaw then the applicant and the commission know they know what the conversation will be centered around in terms of what they're looking for so I guess you know backing up a little bit I think the two-step process can work I guess I'm still I'd still like to know what the commission members feel about first of all what's the the threshold for applying for a demolition permit and what is considered demolition so you know if it's an age-based bylaw which Chris Kelly was um kind of directing everyone to you know what is the mechanism to you know 50 years is a moving target so in 20 years it's going to be a newer date so does is a 50 year do we just say 50 years and we're pretty solid on that and any exceptions are there you know if there's some building we we really think would we try to inventory those and actually specifically name them by address or location in the bylaw which seems somewhat odd and then everything else just wouldn't even you know it wouldn't come it'd be really clear and then you know and then what is demolition so you know later on the agenda there's you know this house on 330 pine street right that's taking down what is part of an attached shed and you know for instance like with something like that uh past the new definition is it taking down enough of the structure does the commission want to see something like that so I feel like that's a pretty big question I mean you know because we'll have someone now come in if the building's over 50 years and they might be taking out some windows we might tell them to you know submit a demolition application and it hasn't been clear guidelines on what exactly is triggers that that application I'd like to go to the percentage we talked about this a lot a few years ago and I think percentage is going to be a stronger control than something like deciding it's only the both the walls the this the that because if you take enough trim off you've completely changed the look of a building so if we say 25 percent of what's visible from the street I mean I went by 330 pine street today you can barely see that portion of the house behind it certainly isn't part of a street view so that wouldn't really come even into consideration but if we set these exact amounts like 25 percent and 50 years and that kind of thing then it's pretty straightforward for staff it seems to me yeah I would say also that the the draft that Jane and Robin have been working on have a useful section in there about exemptions and also I think we could sort of enhance the definition of significant calculation and I think those two things working on could be useful in in the clarity of the of the first intake and what happens with an application I can do a new share and see if I can pull it up we were saying in documents going around here but see so yeah if it'd be like a combination of section 13.30 where instead of demolition of the entire structure that could be a percentage or qualified in other ways and then down here under exemptions right but that gets to be pretty specific right but that right so I mean that's interesting we have that from the local historic district but right so that way if someone is coming in and they're saying this is what we'll do then we know that it doesn't need a demolition hearing I mean it you know I you know yeah my only yeah I guess my only caution is what happens with the local historic district you know someone will say that and then we'll ask them for plans or drawings and the drawings or plans never really indicate that it'll be a one-for-one match if there's a lot of detail so there's an application now where there's you know some right some you know there's term columns with some decorative trim above it and you know first they're saying oh well we'll replace the columns and now like oh well we're just going to take them down and put new ones in and so what originally was well we'll match them or we'll make them similar is really they're just going to replace them with probably you know pressure treated right and you know and wrap the pressure treated in in pine and painted or something so it's you know I don't I feel like if we if someone applies for this and says okay we're going to replace our windows with something similar you know it'll be it'll be on staff though we almost need to see the cut sheets or the building permit application to verify it because you know to get a demolition permit and then they apply for the building permit and it doesn't happen but yeah I do like this this this this to me this these exemptions are clear it's just we have in the past spent a lot of meetings discussing what was going to be replaced and exactly how it would look and then going back to whether or not we've granted demolition and obviously we have to then keep saying but this isn't our purview right if we do present preferably preserved it would be and it would make sense for people to show us what they're going to put there just what they want to do when they come to the meeting that's how they justify demolition so it all fits together better and I would like to know if somebody has two gorgeous Doric columns and they say we'll replace them just looking like that and then they go buy some plastic thing that's online you know that looks classical or something I would like to know that that wasn't accurately replaced you know so I think having that detail would be useful I'm not saying I'm saying it would be I just I guess there's a little bit more follow-up with staff to make sure it happens so you know just yeah you mean you're saying that they apply for demolition permit and if they and then they don't do the building permit until they've got a decision on that is that the problem well for instance like replacement of windows right someone could could come in and say we're going to meet this exemption in the bylaw but then when they actually go to apply for the building permit which says a month or two later they're not going to do that they're going to do something else and so there has to you know staff is good about following through with what's being done but you know I think once something is exempt there has to be some careful follow through with staff to make sure what why it's exempt is is um they you know they meet with what what they say they're going to do so you know I could see a lot of contractors or people coming in saying oh we're going to fall we're going to fall into an exemption because we're going to replace it as it is well maybe it should say right here in the document exemptions uh must be a company a request for exemptions must be a company by detailed building yeah maybe right maybe I should say something like that it's there and I do like that I do like them I think it's really clear yeah is there any kind of another sort of administrative step Nate that would link um the decision of the historical commission with the building permit and inspections or is that just that's just multiple layers of extra staff um when uh yeah when when someone applies for a demolition permit or a demolition application now it's actually there's two fees ones the historical commission fee and one's the building department fee so it actually serves as kind of the building permit for demolition and so uh my thought actually is if we write it this way it would be a separate totally separate application that um is a separate permit that's issued so I think the the problem now is that because it's in the zoning bylaw and it's structured this way the historical commission decision actually isn't a permitable action it's just almost a recommendation to issue the building permit but if this becomes something that's in the general bylaw even possibly in the zoning bylaw we could have it be that the commission's decision gets someone a permit and I don't mind it I don't mind it being layered but that that's cleaner because then once they get their historical commission's permit whether that's you know whether it's a delay or not then if you know if they get allow demolition they they can go to a building permit if they have a delay after 12 months they bring that to the building department and then they get a building permit as opposed to saying oh you know I have this demolition application which is also secondarily serving as my building permit for demolition it's yeah um one question I have is so it sounded like from what Chris said that he recommended we get it out of the out of the zoning bylaws and into the general bylaws how difficult is that to do I don't think it's difficult I think you know the it's interesting I you know the the town one of the town attorneys Joe barge at at KP law he's actually uh really experienced in demolition bylaws so the town manager at one recommended he even asked Joel what he thinks in terms of uh the details of a bylaw so Joel had said a while ago he thought to move to a general bylaw was both because you can write in an appeal process and because it then becomes something that becomes its own action you know right now under zoning it's it's a land we're saying it's a land use regulation which really isn't accurate it so that's why I thought communities were moving into the general bylaw Chris said it's moving to the general bylaw because it's only a majority vote of a legislative body to get it adopted as opposed to a two-thirds majority super majority in town meeting so you know for instance anytime we needed to change it it's a super majority if it's in the zoning but to me and Amherst that's not to me that's not a compelling reason I think the reason we want to move it to general bylaw is because it's really not a zoning issue in that respect and you know it's um you know for instance Chris Kelly said nowhere else and has he seen in a demolition bylaw the reference to 40a so in our demolition bylaw right now we reference 40a and he's like it's not a 40a issue so I think it's just cleaner if it's in the general bylaws and you know we could write in an appeal process you know so the first appeal is to a mediator the first appeal may be to court or something but but as because it's a zoning bylaw the decision can't even be appealed until the building permit is issued and then the building permit itself is appealed to the zoning board of appeals which is just a really on the way to try to mediate a demolition process so I think it just works better in the general bylaw you know functionally and legally that the two-thirds planning to do that all along and isn't it this going to be a basically the same process Nate whether we could bring a whole new thing forward and say replace what we have or bring a whole new thing forward and say this is going to go in a new place I mean it's just it's going to take about the same amount of work right I agree yeah my thought is we have a whole new bylaw and we say without cross zoning bylaw remove this section and we're going to put it in the general bylaw and it's you know it can be one the same vote yeah I think we've been planning pretty much to do that all the way so I agree yeah good this may be a minor point but I think I think we need to change the title of the of the bylaw so it's not about demolition delay it's about preservation I agree do we talk about that with him I thought I thought where was it oh I know the demolition the Massachusetts demolition thing that he gave has a better name doesn't it I think that was the right yeah I forget what it was called now but yes I thought it was much better I had it open yeah I am not seeing her now actually I can add it I'm not either um so preservation commission application oh this is for demolition certificate like that was a better name oh well I'll find it I had made notes Jane I made some kind of detailed comments on the draft that you and Robin have been working on would you like me to send that back to you absolutely I will take any comments yeah the title that is in that draft that Massachusetts whatever you call it template is the preservation of historically significant buildings and it seems to me we could just name name it something like that bylaw for the preservation of significant buildings but yeah so I think one thing um everyone to know but I don't know if Ben's announced it but he he has time and is willing to help you know work through the bylaw drafts Jane some help so I um so I think any comments that are sent around you can copy Ben and myself on those and then we can work on those as well yep yeah please do sounds great I do I mean I do like the idea of having the commission focus on whether something should be preserved I do think that's when people come to commission I think they're always surprised that the commission isn't supposed to talk about future plans and you know really isn't only supposed to look at the historical quality and you know nature of the building which is part of it but it's difficult to say well what you know depending on what's changing it's you know the demolition may be okay but you can't we're not even the commission's not even supposed to say that right now right that's that is kind of hobbling I think it is so we like you everyone seems to um like I mean aspects of every every one so Jane Schaffler to your point maybe you and Ben could work together on at least getting an outline for a new or a new bylaw mm-hmm you know pulling in parts from the different ones we've mentioned so you know for instance we have our exemptions from the bylaw the commission draft which seems to be a nice set of exemptions that may not be in the mass historic the same way so then we could you know at least get a table you know a table of contents or an outline for what what we like in the bylaw yeah yeah I was I was just going to add one thing that occurred to me today I was doing some research about you know what the building commissioner had proposed what the commissioners proposed and then comparing that with the mass historic bylaw and actually I looked at Northampton and Greenfields bylaws as well and one thing I noticed too is like we're calling it a two-step process but I think even ours right now technically I would almost call it a three-step process in that like the building permit when it's like first sent to the building commissioner there's kind of that initial filtering step where you know if it's 50 years or older then it's sent to the commission or you know in some cases a staff person to determine significance and then it's sent to the commission to determine whether it should be preserved so that was just one thing that I noticed today was that there is kind of that even for first initial filtering step where it's like you know 50 years or older boom it's going to go on this pathway as opposed to just you know issuing the permit so that was just one thing I noticed but yeah I have time I Chris Breastrop the planning director kind of asked me to you know take a look at this I'm going to be helping with some other zoning bylaw updates for some for other things in town so I can kind of add this to my workload and I'm happy to kind of meet meet with folks and do some of the legwork here so feel free to keep me in the loop I also like some other things in the mass historic model um the fines and moratorium on new construction and also um what was the other one that well neglect we've added neglect and I think we should be tougher on that the minimum maintenance bylaw that affirmative meeting bylaw I thought that's we don't have anything like that I think we should add that in um also longer delays and higher fines consider those I think we should discuss those again you know Chris was saying that this isn't a good time to have longer delays because the current climate it's problematic for economic development but um Chris Skelly said no it allows jobs and we should see economic historic resources as a driver instead of a deterrent and for that reason I had thought we should talk to the um council the town council before we bring this a few months before we bring this we should do a presentation of them on why we save old buildings why we preserve things and how those are good things for community not economic problems for community not drawbacks um you know he he mentioned the four E's um and so I started playing with that putting together a possible presentation he did environmental economic educational and emotional um and I think we could do something for them that would be kind of upbeat not terribly defensive although that's obviously the point since was it who said um who was the woman who was the person from the public last time what's her name Helga what's her name oh Hilda Hilda and she said that they're against us and want to get rid of both our commission and the design review board because they think that we're holding back the town um so I think we need to go in there and explain how good it is that we exist and how what a positive thing it is for a town like Amherst to have us and then a few months later bring this forward I think we might need an extra step in there um now for uh first of all I I kind of wonder about Priskelly's comment that it's an economic driver uh because it seems to me he's talking about communities that are more densely built and more densely residential and have greater opportunity for rehabilitation of historic structures than than our area does but uh leaving that aside I'd also I also think that um that two of the members of the town council have expressed interest in this bylaw and um as long as we are continuing to work on it we you know we may want to you know run some things pass them in order to kind of you know at least engage part of the council in the in in our thought process and in what we're doing so that there is a greater understanding of what the historical commission's role is even before we make a presentation which I think is a good idea but I think I'm wondering if we need an extra step I mean I always I always think in terms of concord versus us you know and you may think you may see concord as more what you were saying densely um residential and I don't know having more historic things but it seems to me that we're really lucky to have Amherst College because they've preserved so many buildings in the downtown area that we probably wouldn't have been able to save otherwise and so we're kind of unique as a town that way and if we just try and keep that up if a town and you know and other residents keep it up to go with Amherst College's look we have a really attractive historical town if we let that go they just become the anomaly of the college and the college is the attraction not the town you know um so I think it can be an economic driver people come to visit well the Dickinson house and other places and if they want to see other historical sites here and there are plenty as we know from the Ryder's law beyond the college then we are economically increasing tourism and overnight stays and all that stuff so it can be a driver and you know it does prove right by a certain amount of jobs so I don't know you know I mean Jane when you said that I was thinking possibly have a presentation to both the CPA committee and town council about you know historic commission in general so you know what you know what are what does historical commission do in general what you know what's its role in town and then you know there's different pieces so it'd be an educational meeting and then you know we could talk about if there's a few specific topics yeah there's a lot of stuff on the online things like this you know six you can't read this six practical reasons to save old buildings there's a lot of this stuff out there and they it gives a lot of really good simple you know reasons that I think a lot of these people haven't thought about they just you don't think in these ways so we have to help pull one together I mean I think before that I do like I like that you have trying to get a template down for the demolition bylaw and then maybe to Jane your point you know having staff and counselors discuss it you know so what you know that you know we've talked about moving it from zoning to the general bylaw and maybe maybe that's not known to a lot of people so then you know for instance getting that out there and then you know if we have a few clear cards of the bylaw you know for instance you know what are the thresholds for application we're changing the significant who determines significance we're we're adding this preferably preserved we have different definitions we have exemptions I mean I feel like we could get a few working pieces together of a bylaw that you know then staff could look at or bring to that you know Manny Joe was willing to look at those you know and we could I could ask the town manager's office if they think that's worthwhile to have you know this kind of these meetings but I think I think we have a number of pieces of the bylaw I'd like to just work on a little bit more and see where the commission what the commission thinks of that I'd be cautious about um publicly broadcasting too much that we want to move it out of the zoning bylaw too soon because I could see that backfiring on us and people saying oh well if it isn't part of zoning and it just becomes you know its own thing who are these people and why should they have this kind of control you know I think if it's tied to zoning right now they're they're feeling like it's less touchable I don't know that's true but right you know I wonder if um at any or saying you have some thoughts on this part of the discussion I'm thinking number one to change the title of the bylaw to the preservation jam said it nicely before because when we start out with demolition it it isn't the purpose of our commission our commission is to support preservation and so that alone but I think that we've got some more work to do on the bylaw I I would need to learn more about the nuance of the zoning board and the connection with the historical commission to understand what Jan just said that that by moving moving the parts could be um threatening and we need to think that really carefully before we'd make any recommendations but I think if we if we work on the bylaws and and have clarity about the role of the commission for preservation um the demolition except exceptions I like that that's new and I like that in our bylaws um but I think we need to do a little more work on the bylaws before we um engage in in the conversation and maybe you don't agree with that but I think that we kind of need to have more clarity with the what we're trying to do for clarity before we start discussing it and maybe what some of what you're talking about could be in an introduction to the bylaw yes yes and and because that's a preamble to to get people mindset into the right place I also think it would help if our title was preservation rather than demolition I think it it's it sets a different bar line or baseline or something in terms of how people react possibly beyond that I'm not sure I feel like I'm still really learning the ins and outs of all of this so thank you Jane for asking but I think that's about as much as I can comment on at this point yeah I think I still I you know um Jan maybe you mentioned penalties I mean I've also thought that you know I think at the end of this bylaw there are some sections that weren't complete about you know when would a permit expire when um you know can it be transferred to another owner I think there are little pieces that their details that we can end up working out but at least if we have a topical headline for those you know and they could fall under so you know sometimes we have owners who apply for demolition permit thinking they're going to move soon or change the property and then the new owner inherit something that's been granted and so you know the commission could write in for instance that you know the if a new owner takes takes um there's new ownership during the delay that they have to reapply or something so that it's not you know where people aren't trying to game the system or that you know we've got owners apply for demolition and three years later they come back to the commission and say oh I don't have to apply again it I you know three years ago you said yes and it's like well I think we should say that if they don't act on it within six months they have to reapply or something so there's ways to you know even on kind of the back end of it tighten it up a little bit and it looks like Jane and Jan have been oh man they've been lost I mean Hilda was on it too when she's not here so I don't know if there's power outages I know there's some severe storms coming through the area you know let it thunder and laugh where I am yeah I was gonna say I'm in South Amherst and our power just kind of flickered and then I think our at least one of our Google boxes rebooted itself so oh yeah I think yeah so Ben thank you for volunteering the Jane I think you and Ben and you know you can copy me too I think getting you know working on a new draft that everyone can look at is would be helpful I think there's a lot of pieces here it's just a matter of pulling them all together yeah I was gonna say Jane I'm I'm like very much a visual learner and sometimes I just get so lost in these blocks of texts and so I made like the series of flow charts which kind of shows like each step and like different arrows for like where they go and exemptions here and there so that was really helpful for me as like even just a learning tool just to go through that process and I'd be happy to kind of share those um flow charts for as like a starting point as well sure yeah send it over I just like especially after so basically at least like from just if it's helpful I took what Robin had been working on with Ted I think that's who it was and I she they've done a fair amount of work with some of what I did was just like the definition section I just tried to make it look easier to read um and then I think especially once we found out that we were going to have the ability to have Chris come in and give us a tutorial on like the best practices for this so I am not going to like there is no way that I will be offended if we just like dump all of this and start over again or if we only take a couple pieces of it because what is most important to me is that we come up with something that is clear and concise as much as it can be but also just really does what we need it to do um and so I think like that's I guess that's probably not not I don't know I just want to make sure that people know that like I don't send me whatever feedback you have you will not hurt my ego I just want this for the talent and I'm I love the idea of renaming it to the bylaw for the preservation of historically significant buildings I think that's I feel like when you call it's like a demo demo delish demo demo demolition delay bylaw yeah it doesn't it doesn't encapsulate what we're trying to do which is preserve historically significant structures um and I feel like it just makes it sound like something that people don't want to have to deal with so like if you go to a building owner and they're like oh hold on you have this delay because of demolition they're gonna be like uh uh whereas if we're like no we want to preserve this structure it's like oh okay maybe I can get on board for sad you're back Nate um I lost power for a while and Jane has lost power and she's off in walled we may have to delay this meeting while this storm is going on because I have what I'm being told my internet is iffy and she can't get back I get the iffy stuff all the time zoom does not like my internet is saying to me that the power is coming and going because down here in South Amherst we lose our power every couple of weeks so right now the um river quorum I guess you know I think we've wrapped up the demolition discussion I think you know Ben and Jane and Robin will work on a draft that tries to um you know urge some of the various versions we have and come up with I think the working template we can then discuss okay well let's then um look at maybe another date for the 330 pine the cellular tower public comment and um west cemetery ucampus umas campus pond that's a lot and if we're coming and going like she she just texted she can't get back it took me a few minutes to get things back up and anything else could go out at any minute too yeah I mean I think the um you know what one that's more time sensitive than the other is uh 330 pine street so let me just um see hillbough just rejoined us so she maybe Jane can get back on a minute um yeah they're both on the north end um did everybody go to 330 pine street or have we looked at it carefully because we could just do a quick vote yeah I think it might just be that that's I'm trying to minimize uh reduce my pdf size so yeah the in interior photos to me were not as explanatory as the owners thought they were no I agree you know right I've only um let the giant blur didn't show you what you were trying to see I was like why would you even include that you notice balloon frame sure you know I think the exterior yeah I don't know there's only pictures you know it's the back section here right and you know the owner is saying that it was built it's not 50 years old um an old aerial photographs the roof you can see the roof's older so this area was you know maybe not uh it's not at the same time as the main house but there is part of it that is older and maybe maybe it was rebuilt or maybe it had been an open air shed that they enclosed in the 60s uh the house I forget because it could have been the summer kitchen if it's a 19th century house and forget when it was built yeah they say it was um yeah I'm 115 years old the house right yeah well I I don't know I went by there today and unless you're coming from the east and looking down the side of the house at the angle like that first view you show right you don't hardly notice it and I don't think it's going to affect the look of the property at all so I wouldn't have any problems and that's just everybody else can weigh in how they feel actually when you look at the roof line there seems to be some some separation toward the front of the house um and so you wonder you wonder how much of the shed was there to begin with and and how much the roof line was extended but I agree with you Jan I took a drive by and it it doesn't seem significant to the house or to the street view or to history even if it was a separate building and it was later attached with that in between section it's not a significant architectural item on the property to me no I I agree with that it um it ceased to be useful and it doesn't appear to have significance and it kind of an eyesore yes I mean you can't see it from this street but I mean if you're like I'm looking at the pictures and it's like the I think it's supposed to be brick but it looks like someone took like a sticker of brick and just slapped it on the side of the house oh that's that that's a type of asphalt sign it's very common it looks like it's peeling off in some places so it's like I feel like they'd probably be doing the house a favor by getting rid of it well but signing can be changed but yeah yeah the um yeah in one of the aerial photographs the roof color here was different so it's really odd um at some point maybe they patch it over with this type of roof but um you know it's it's really difficult to to determine when this was built more accurately than what the owner has um has so does the commission want to make a vote to allow demolition or not have a hearing is there I have to run the meeting now somebody else make a motion I make a motion that we um allow demolition and I second it that's heti okay uh any further discussion any I guess we should have asked if there was public comment before we did this motion um I don't see any hands being raised right now okay great well then uh I'll call a roll call vote uh pat I approve yes I agree okay jane shuffler agreed patty agreed and I agree and that's enough of a quorum yeah that was a quorum okay is um maybe jane called in I'm yeah I'm uh I'm texting with her I can ask her if she wants to um I yeah I'm oh there you are good yay can we we just looked at the pine street demolition application and there's a vote to allow demolition um is this a hearing no it's not a hearing it isn't no it's it's a decision to not require a hearing okay then uh I I vote to not require a hearing right okay and janet suggests that maybe having another meeting time just because of the weather and possible conditions of not having continuous you know zoom zoom a zoom attendance I don't know what you how you feel about that or say is there any there's nothing else that is the 132 north hampton road project that's not terribly time oh there is a meeting on august 6th yeah I think this dba will probably meet into september on that one so if we don't want to discuss it tonight um and I guess one other one I haven't seen my screen you know there was the cell tower uh noticed for you know on the corner of um west pomeroy and 116 so behind the valley a transporter yeah yeah and I don't you know I think they contacted mass historic um just as the ship oh but then you know this was sent to the town asking uh you know is there any impact to historic resources if a 90-foot tower is put there you know my only thought is there's a few old homes on west pomeroy uh I you know I I don't you know I can't say that there's a large impact but I'm not sure if the commission has any questions or well I was going to go down 116 just to see if there was anything just north of that um strip mall or anything that looked historic as well but I didn't have I think if it's not yeah if it's not time sensitive then I I think we should move it to the next meeting all right yeah I mean I can't tell if they have any I mean we'd appreciate comments as soon as possible from the next 30 days and that was sent on July 6 so um okay does anybody feel that we have enough information to comment at this time and meet that 30-day requirement I mean I myself don't feel that I have I don't either have to be a public meeting or can we just send in comments by email and compile them I think we could uh boy that's a good question it's not a demolition it's just they're asking what we if we think there's anything right I mean right yep yeah all right so what we could do is authorize the is ask the staff to collect comment and convey those comments to to um the correspondence I will say that you know north of this is Amherst office park so there's some older buildings you know there was a discussion with staff to ask the owners if they'd be willing to push the um the tower further north of the corner of the property just so that you know if you know or at least ask the owner as representatives is there you know the ability to move the location of the tower in the back of the property so if there you know if there is an impact or if it makes more sense to put it north because uh you know it's out of view more or something and I don't know if that's the case but we were someone who's going to follow up with the owners about that could we like two weeks we could I'm not finish this and pick up anything else that has come up by then so how do people feel about meeting in two weeks I kind of want to let's see I think that would be the fifth and then well let's I'm away that week so just step away I we would also plan to have our regular monthly meeting presumably which would fall on the 19th and it's this cell tower item is the only item that is quite that time sensitive um can we can we send comment to town staff and ask them to convey them to the app to the correspondent wouldn't 132 Northampton road need to be done oh you said into September I guess that could be at the next monthly meeting yeah and I think if we if the commission met on the 19th the um I think the zba might you know it's going to hear they'll hear they'll hear it on august 6th and then maybe the week of the 19th maybe that maybe even on the 20th and then they're going to have a hearing or two in September maybe even October so we have time I just thank you how much there is for every meeting we still have west cemetery signs campus on and we want to look we want to spend a lot of time on the civil war signs we need a lot of time to look at the bylaw it feels like we almost need more meetings for a little while until we get through some of this I just need to say that I'm not going to be available on the 19th but I'm available any other Wednesday in august okay so maybe we should plan to meet on the 5th and the 19th well how do you won't be here on the 5th I won't be here in the 19th but that's fine 12th is everybody around on the 12th yeah 12th works for me yes yeah I don't think I'm going anywhere it works for me too so maybe that instead of the 19th and if we don't think we need and that gives us actually more time ahead and then we maybe could plan one two weeks later or something too if we need it to finish up some of these things like the civil war tablets or the bylaws yeah then the next one maybe would be two if we met two weeks later it'd be september uh second but you know right so maybe we'd have now it'd be the 26th from the 12th oh sorry the 26th yeah which is better because the second is right yeah now it's not Labor Day weekend I was thinking it was not that that matters these days well yeah I mean I think the 12th would work and then we can see how much we get done and if we need to meet again and this you know I agree I think the you know I'm not sure how far along the tablets will be but that is a big discussion and then the bylaws are pretty big discussion and we can only do it out of public meetings so there's not you know it kind of it's hard to move through so if we're talking about three meetings in august then I would request that if the agenda is um prepared that not all of these items be on every agenda it's only two meetings so two meetings 12 and 26 yeah okay so we'll say the deal are we saying no on the on the fifth fifth have the cell tower no and no no meeting on the fifth instead it's the 12th so I thought you were talking about a meeting on the fifth a meeting on the 12th and a meeting on the 26th instead of a meeting on the fifth a meeting on the 19th and a meeting on the 26th no um because there weren't going to be people here both the fifth and 19th we changed both of those okay one on the 12th okay all right and then did we I thought it was fine if um individual members emailed staff with comments about the cell tower yes and that could come off the agenda so then why are okay never mind and then are we talking six p.m or back to five p.m I think I know five p.m doesn't work for some members so six I mean six works it's fine with me and then on the 12th can we I agree if we have so many items that it's the meeting seems overwhelming would you know would that be a good chance just to talk about the demolition bylaw some more and have that be a main agenda item can we have a draft of some things by then Eddie and Ben or no Jane and Ben absolutely yeah yeah definitely I could work towards that great and maybe so it'd be demolition bylaw and maybe 132 Northampton road just you know the so just for 132 Northampton road you know Valley CDC is proposing affordable housing there and they want to take down the house so they want to you know as part of the comprehensive permit application the demo there is no demolition application they're asking that be waived and the ZBA is reviewing it so you know I think we could we could touch on it on the 12th and see what the commission thinks all right yeah maybe we could try to do our site visit before the 26th for the Civil War tablets so we kind of have that done and then we can talk discuss it by the 26th so I just for note taking purposes I just want to make sure we're on the our next meeting on the 12th we're going to continue discussion of 132 Northampton road and demolition delay bylaws correct sure preservation by law right we have to start treating ourselves that's the first thing we should do I'm putting it in right now I mean I'm actually like writing it in the minutes is preservation of historically significant buildings by law great okay I am getting pounded here I have to go close up the chicken coop and save the chicks or they're going to drown so I have your run out is there a motion to adjourn I saw no I second all in favor aye any opposed thank you all very much I hope you survived the flood thanks Jane take care all right bye bye