 Good morning everybody and thank you for joining us this morning. Today's webinar is on investigations and compliance with the RTA My name is Lynn Smith and today our guest speaker is Stuart Taylor the manager for our investigations team at the RTA So welcome Stuart. Thank you very much In today's session, we're going to be looking at the differences between dispute resolution and investigations The role of the RTA's investigations unit the common investigation requests that the RTA receives What actions can occur when we do receive an investigation request? Information for the complainants information for the respondents We're also going to talk about what a penalty infringement notice is and also to what you need to know about our prosecutions So just to clarify in relation to a dispute Request versus an investigation's request at the RTA So with dispute resolution, these are tenancy and bond disputes They're in relation to the breach of a term of a tenancy agreement So what we're looking at is whether there's a tenancy matter or whether that might be someone has claimed on a rental bond And someone disputes that These matters will come through our dispute resolution service and go through conciliation at the RTA and then proceeds to QCAT So these are usually the monetary types of matters In relation to investigations what we're looking at is these are investigations into the alleged Offences of the residential tenses and rooming accommodation act the penalty provisions of our legislation They don't go to QCAT these matters actually go to the magistrates court and this is what Stuart will be talking to you again today So again, these are civil matters versus criminal matters So over to you Stuart to talk about the role of the investigations team Thanks Lynn. So the role of the investigations team is to investigate alleged offences against the act Now it's important to know that if an offence is committed There are various types of appropriate action that we will take and what we're trying to do there is to ensure that the offence is not repeated again Now we can only investigate offences if they are Under the act with having a penalty unit attached So if you see the act you'll see the sections that do have penalty units attached Those are the offences that my investigations team can investigate Now we're independent what I mean by that is we act on behalf of the state We take complaints from all parties and we do our investigations impartially We do have legislative powers to conduct certain Functions such as requiring information and an example of that is often We will request information from the bank in terms of bank records if we have the complaint that a bond has not been launched Okay, so Stuart what I'm hearing is it's like a fact-gathering process as well. Yes, that's right So if you can sooner identify an offence in the legislation and that's where the what Stuart was talking about in relation to the penalty units So this is just an example on the screen where we've circled in relation to where it says maximum penalty is 40 penalty units So I'll get you to maybe just talk about the penalty units Stuart. That's right. So the penalty units Increased slightly every year and June 30 July 1 the current penalty unit is a hundred and thirty three dollars and 45 cents So as an example under section 116, which is a duty to pay a rental bond The maximum amount and it will stress maximum amount if the matter was to be prosecuted through the criminal courts for an individual Would be 40 times that penalty unit. So as it currently stands prosecution maximum amount would be five thousand three hundred and thirty eight dollars Now for a corporation, it's five times that individual amount and that falls under a different piece of legislation under the penalties and sentences act So your time set for that five thousand three hundred and thirty eight by five So the maximum amount for a section 116 duty to pay rent a bond that could be issued by the court as a fine Would be twenty six thousand six hundred ninety dollars and that's just for one non-launchment or even a late-launchment of the bond Yes, that's for an individual offence So with investigations You receive investigations in a number of ways Stuart So I'll get you to step through we've got three main types of ways that we seem to receive investigation requests Yes, that's right. The main way that we receive our investigation requests is through referral from our client service centre So clients be they tenants agents landlords or other support community groups will contact us and we will send them out an investigation request form That can be obtained by contacting our call centre on one three hundred three double six three one one We receive those investigation requests as our main main source of Investigations that come through however we do do proactive proactive work as well here at the RTA We're looking for trends that we see in the rental sector specifically in non-compliance and if we identify sections within the Sector where there's no compliance and potentially also in certain areas Then we will do a proactive investigation in that area as well And we will use the records that we hold here at the RTA to to help us identify those trends The third way that investigations commenced is through our interagency referrals Okay, so what sort of investigations would come through those agency referrals? Well, typically we get a lot of referrals from the Office of Fair Trading That's because the Office of Fair Trading look after trust accounts So misappropriation of trust funds Quite often happens through non lodgements of bonds and we will get a lot of referrals from the OFT And we do work collaboratively with them in a lot of our investigations we also do joint investigations and prosecutions with the Queensland Police Service and Commonly that will be because there may be a fraudulent Element to the particular offense and we see that often in the 514 false misleading Offences that we get sometimes we refer those to the police or they may be referred to us We also partner with the Queensland Fire and Emergency Services Generally that will be overcrowding and rooming accommodations smoke alum compliance And we work in with the Department of Housing and Public Works Matters such as their boarding houses where the residential services are offered in the residential services Investigations unit from the Department of Housing is another group that we work collaboratively with Great So the type of action that can occur so if a complaint is substantiated then the RTA can provide education And engage with the parties to make sure that they're aware of their obligations They can issue a caution letter Can also issue a penalty infringement notice and we'll talk a little bit more on penalty infringement notices Or they can also commence a criminal prosecution in the Magistrates Court So just over to you Stuart in relation to what the differences is in relation to the options that is actually or the action that can actually occur That's right. We consider a wide variety of different reasons when we look at the type of Appropriate action that we take I'd like to stress however that every case is considered on an individual case by case basis So this is just general information each case is unique and different and we judge each one individually However, it's a general rule What we're looking at is whether or not the other party Was aware of what their legal obligations were in the first place And if they have still knowingly and deliberately committed an offense during that time Whether or not that offense was part of a larger commercial or professional enterprise as well Um, and we also look at other factors as well once the offense has been or the alleged offense has been brought to the party's attention Have they taken their own steps proactively to try and minimize the event happening again? Have they amended any policies or procedures to try to mitigate that? That event happening in the future We also have a look at whether or not there's been any similar offenses committed in the past as well Okay So I just get you to talk a little bit more broadly with how the most common tops of investigations the rta receives And I have got a list up there In relation to most of the ones But I'll get you to go through some and if surely if you've got some examples Uh that you can probably talk through about some of the examples of cases that's come through for some of these cases Sure So the most common investigation request that we receive is around Non lodging of bond. It's also important to stress. However, it's not just non lodging. It's also late lodging of bond And if it's not lodged within the 10 days What we will do is we have the um option to investigate that matter and in some cases We have issued fines or even prosecuted uh for late lodging or non lodging of bonds So it's important to make sure that bonds are lodged within the 10 days. Um, that's legislated We also look at unlawful entries and contracting out of the act Good example of that. We had a large agency with a few unlawful entries And also one count of contracting out of the act and that was for requiring professional carpet cleaning Now conviction was recorded in that prosecution and that was due to some serious and aggravating circumstances in relation to the unlawful entries Which were quite repetitive in nature That particular company was fined $10,000 for that matter We also investigate unlawful recovery of possession of properties and by that what I mean is uh evicting tenants unlawfully As well as quiet enjoyment and failure to give written agreements and entry condition reports So quiet enjoyment covers a range of matters Because what it does is it looks at the interference with the tenants, uh, reasonable peace Comfort all their privacy whilst using the premises Uh early this year we prosecuted a private landlord for An account of unlawful entry and quiet enjoyment And that was an unusual case where this particular person Cleared all the surrounding bushland on a large property after the tenants had moved in Provided no notice nor was there any consent given Conviction was recorded and it was fined $3,000 for that particular matter And again talking around Quiet enjoyment allowing tenants peace and privacy We prosecuted another agency recently For quiet enjoyment and that was in a case where The agency refused to hand over keys to a property Where the tenant had just signed The agreement paid his bond and rent and they refused to hand over the keys Unless every page of an entry condition report was was signed prior to inspecting the property Now they received a $3,000 fine for that particular conduct Okay, so I think it's really there's some valid points that you've raised in there Stuart is in relation to Ensuring that your special terms that you put in your tenancy agreement Are compliant with the legislation that you're not contracting outside of the legislation So again changing time frames Insisting someone has to purchase a particular supplies of goods and services Those types of things can potentially be looking at contracting outside the legislation. That's correct Yes, absolutely And one of the last examples that you gave was in relation to refusing To give the keys to the property unless the tenant signed every page of the entry condition report before they're able to view the property Again going back to our legislation. It's very clear in our act under section 65 about the entry condition report. It is a requirement that the lessor all the agent Complete the entry condition report they sign it They then give a copy of the entry condition report to the tenant Then the tenant then has three days to complete that entry condition report And return it back to the lessor the agent within that three-day time frame So again enforcing someone to try and sign something without actually viewing the property or even following that legislation process I can see them why they've actually received that fine for their conduct So is there any other areas That's a concern that's coming to the attention of the investigation team steward that you're seeing Yes, there's been a recent trend Of quite large concern for us Section 514 of our act now that section talks and providing false and misleading documents to the rta We seem to be seeing a fair bit more of this recently Examples that we've had is where on the bond a refund form after the tenants have signed Agents coming back and changing the amounts and then submitting it through our rta process here Well, not only is that on on ethical. It's also unlawful. It's an offense against that section We've recently prosecuted one agency in regards to Doing just that and they will find two thousand dollars in that particular case It's very important That at any stage if there's a disagreement regarding the bond refund form that what's signed is what is submitted To us here at no time Can those amounts be changed without the knowledge and the consent of the other party? So it's very important to not submit those forms Unless both parties are aware of how much is being being handed over to To the rta So again, this is really another part to really be very mindful of full landlords and Real estate agents that if you are also claiming a bond at the end of the tenancy To make sure that you are only ever claiming the amount that you're entitled to claim So we do get a lot of people that's Claiming the whole bond where they're only really wanting just a portion of the bond So again making sure that the undisputed amount is released to the tenant So as an example if we hold There's a two thousand dollar bond You're looking to maybe claim a little bit of rand or some cleaning at the end You may not necessarily have your invoices But again, maybe just making sure that you claim only an estimate of what you're looking to claim If you don't need that whole bond you should not be claiming the whole bond So just got a couple of questions just to clarify here too. The return of the entry condition report Is three days. It's not business days for the tenant. It's just three days under our legislation So just want to just clarify that So just over to you in relation to the if someone does complete an investigation request and and lodges it with the rta Obviously they need to make sure that the form is fully completed and signed But what other information is your team looking for? Yes, it's really important when you complete the investigation request form That you provide all the relevant information as much information as you can To assist us when we review the investigation and decide whether or not there are sufficient evidence for us to be able to investigate the matter If in doubt submit the submit whatever evidence you think we may or may not want We're always happy to receive more rather than less. We will often come back to the complainants in the first instance requesting further information as well So that we can make an informed decision as to whether or not there are sufficient evidence for us to put the matter to the other party It's important as well to submit those forms Sooner rather than later because there is a statute of limitation Which does expire giving us a maximum of two years For us to be able to investigate a complaint So once the party has decided that they do wish to make an investigation complaint We do urge them to make it sooner rather than later and provide as much information as you can if in doubt submit the extra information to us Okay, so again that really important for that timeframe in sending an investigation request to us not actually holding back because of that timeframe that you have in relation to investigating the matter Yes, that's right. We have two years statute of limitations once those two years have expired We we can't take enforcement action for the other party So that two years is very important to us Okay, so depending on the type of the matter and everything like that There's obviously some more information that you may require from the complainant Yep, that's right So some of the further information that we require maybe That you will need to if we look to prosecute the matter We need to know that the parties that are making the complaint Wishing to provide a witness statement and if necessary give that evidence in court as well We here at the rta will always do our utmost to ensure that we put matters before the court for those that do need to go before the court But ultimately We cannot provide the information on behalf of the other party. So that party does need to Be willing and able to attend court to provide that evidence If if they're asked Okay, so a lot of time is involved with those investigations and the prosecution So again providing all that evidence And remembering that false and misleading information What should the Complaint be aware of like they they need to be keeping in contact with the investigating officer. Is that right? That's right so The investigating officer will make contact with the complainant to let them know that they have received the Investigation request and then letting them know which investigator is looking after the matter It is important to keep in contact with the investigating officer as the complaint progresses Be that via email or via telephone It's also important as you're stating as well not to provide false and misleading information that in itself Can be an offence and it can also hamper an investigation as well if we become aware of it great So again, this is also an opportunity just to remind people that Investigations is not about claiming compensation or money. Um, this is about a breach In relation to the penalty provisions of the legislation If there's a breach of the tenancy agreement and you're seeking monetary Or seeking a bond matter then this would actually go through our dispute resolution Obviously if someone has lodged a bond then that obviously then is still a investigation as well So just in relation to um, again, this is just a reminder that it's highly recommended to get your own independent legal advice But for respondents and this is an opportunity for you to provide your side of the story and provide your evidence Yes, that's that's correct. The allegations letter that is sent out It's important to understand that They're not q-cat matters. They're they're a different court. The criminal Prosecutions go through the magistrates court, but they're not q-cat and there's different rules that apply in that space And there's also potentially large penalties that can be awarded against individuals or companies and potentially also convictions So it is important that those allegation letters when they're received that they're taken seriously And that there's an understanding that it's not a q-cat process So the letter of allegations that's provided is an opportunity for the other party To provide their perspective as to what has occurred During the event that has caused the other party to make a complaint It's an opportunity to provide any relevant evidence to help my team make a informed decision as to What what has occurred? However, I will strongly state that because they're criminal matters there is also rights that all the parties have and the first is the rights to silence. There is No obligation to To take part in an interview or provide any information To the investigations team. It's important at this stage as well when I When you read the allegation letter, you'll see there's a section where the investigations team stress to seek independent legal advice In the past a trend we've seen is that Real estate agents and other parties have used Civil lawyers or conveyancing lawyers to handle their complaints now whilst We here at the RTA will never tell you who you should engage as a lawyer There are what I will say is that there's specialists That deal with criminal charges And they are the criminal lawyers that are specialists in those fields. So any party is Fine to use whichever specific lawyer they feel comfortable with and again, it's an independent process But be aware that there are specialists in that field that can deal with criminal matters Okay, so is there anything else there for like the respondents? maybe just to be aware of like particularly when they are providing information to the RTA particularly as part of that investigation process Yes, it is important that you don't provide a falsely misleading information to the RTA As stated before that is an offense under section 514 to provide Falsely misleading information to the RTA. So keep that in mind The other important aspect as well is to make sure that the The principal the the company director or the owner is aware of the allegations letter to have a policy or procedure in place where Where that individual is is aware that an allegation has been sent to the agency And not just a property manager and the reason for that is that it affects the entire agency Great I'll just quickly just have look there's some questions coming through and unfortunately they're not really relating to today's topic So just clarify There's a lot in relation to the entry condition report and special terms and everything at the start of a tendency and some paperwork questions So we actually did a webinar Previously in relation to the start of the tendency So probably may be getting everyone to actually go and have a review of the webinars actually available on our website Particularly in relation to the process about the entry condition report Also to someone saying like it's a tenant doesn't sign the bond launch form I would probably recommend as best business practice still to lodge that bond with the RTA And just get them to say that the signatures will follow down the track as well So just moving on in relation to the penalty infringement notice should not a lot of people may be Understanding what a penalty infringement notice is I always say it's very similar to a traffic or a speeding fine as such So maybe just get you to expand on this process Uh, yeah, that's that's correct. It is very very similar To a traffic fine that you might receive so a penalty infringement notice Is it's 10% of the maximum penalty so before when we were talking around Section 116 and we were saying it was five thousand three hundred and thirty eight dollars The maximum amount and it's always a set amount on the penalty infringement notices is 10% So for the individual as it currently stands, it'll only be five hundred and thirty three dollars An 80 cents all for the corporation close to 700 and very similar to a traffic ticket. There's options that you have if you do receive a penalty infringement notice firstly again Make sure that the owner company director Is aware that the penalty infringement notice has been sent through There's three options on there. You do have the option to pay the fine in full You have the option to pay by installments The third option is that you can elect to contest the the penalty infringement notice in court So what that would mean is that You tick the third box to say that you disagree that the offence has occurred that you wish to contest the matter in court And then we would commence a prosecution from our end We're a complainant summons is sent out to that individual to put them out of a for the court Okay, so there's options in relation to paying the fine in full or ranging for the installments or You can actually do that contesting of the pin as well. Yes Okay, and I know that you have actually touched on prosecutions before when we talked about like what the respondent has to do in relation to legal representation and so forth, but I might get you to just Expand a little bit more on that prosecution side of things do it just so that everyone's fully aware That this is not QCAT and the couple people have actually been sending some Questions through in relation to the pins through QCAT and things like that. It's a very different process everyone So QCAT is for your tenancy matters in relation to The breaches of the tenancy agreement looking for warranted possessions to end at the end of the tenancy and termination orders and things like that This is a very different process. This is where our legislation Um, I think there's 568 sections of the act and there's about 120 of those sections have penalty provisions In the legislation. So this is what our investigations team is looking at if you have breached one of those penalty provisions of the act And Stuart went through those common investigations before non-logument or late-logument of bond or that you You know contracting outside the legislation those sort of I actually have penalty provisions attached And this is what Stuart's talking about today. And so over to you Stuart in relation to like the seriousness of the prosecutions Yes, that's right. Um, it's it's important to note that the investigations unit is entirely independent of QCAT and the QCAT process If a matter is put before the courts For prosecution From the rta. It is not QCAT. It is an entirely separate court. It's still magistrates court, but it's criminal court And has absolutely no bearing whatsoever on QCAT it's also important that if a Prosecution is commenced against the organization That the person or the individual attending court Needs to have the authority to bind the company. Now usually that would be the director And we would always try to ensure that if a prosecution is commenced that the director the owner the company is aware and also has the appropriate Lawyer at court as well so that they're able to make the right submissions to the court And the reason we do that is um, there is the potential that a conviction could be recorded against the individual or the company And that does have very real ramifications down the track when it Licensing in the real estate industry. It was also personal individual career and livelihood as well Okay So just quickly just summarizing like what we've actually gone through this morning. So this is about Yeah, a breach of a tenancy agreement is a dispute process and not an investigation So being very clear about that The investigations are going to relate to the penalty provisions of the legislation. So the residential tenancies and roomy accommodation at 2008 There's time frames to apply in lodging an investigation request So again for for claimants who are putting in a request That there is that time frame to allow and making sure that our rta investigations team Can properly go through the processes that they need to go through And again also too for respondents. So responding to an allegation It's advisable to seek that independent legal advice and I think Stuart has also made very clear too in relation to seeking the appropriate legal representation to make sure that I suppose one of the things that you've often heard just say Stuart is that If you are you wouldn't go to a criminal lawyer to do conveyancing Would that be a fair comment to say? Exactly. Yep. Yeah So being very careful in relation to making sure that you do actually have the good representation that you need And also the main thing is to just to comply with that legislation Um, you know get to know the legislation And making sure that you or you know how to access that legislation So just before we actually finish up here. I might just actually launch a poll Just to engage who actually is in our audience today just before we keep going We do have some questions here and also some themes that's coming through as well So if I can just quickly just ask you Which group in the rental sector do you identify with in relation to whether you're a tenant? A property manager owner Community support or landlord that actually owns their own property. So I'll just quickly get everyone if you wouldn't mind Um, just getting you to complete that poll for me Okay, so I'll just look at closing that in a moment. It looks like nearly everyone has actually completed that So in today's session, we look like we have majority about 74 percent Of people attending today are actually property managers or agents or owners And we also have nine percent for landlords and 10 percent for community support organizations I'll just quickly just ask you one more poll And what I'm looking for is what is your level of knowledge of the legislation? So in today's session, we're just looking at um, you know, is there limited knowledge? Do you have fair knowledge? But I know where to get that information from You have fairly good knowledge of the legislation You're pretty confident that you know the legislation very well Um, and if you're not quite fitting in either of those categories, then, um, maybe just stick other So I'll just say that I've just one moment And just while everyone's just doing that again, we're getting a lot of questions in just not clarifying that difference between that qcat and that Magistrate type of situation like the criminal and the civil So Stuart can I just maybe just well, we'll just close in this poll I'll just get you to quickly just clarify that again for everyone Yeah, so I think what's important to note is that if an rta investigation is underway It doesn't prohibit you from still continuing with your qcat application. Whatever it may be Our process won't interfere with your qcat process And they are independent of each other as well. So any rta investigation can run Conjointly along with whatever you whatever you're before qcat for There are times when references are made to investigations Ballast qcat matters are being heard. But as a general rule, it's entirely independent and you You don't need to halt any application that you have with qcat pending a result from the investigations team great So again, there is some themes coming through stewards. So I might just You know, look, thanks everybody. I'm quite conscious that we are sort of like coming to a time and just remember The rta is here to help. So if you have any tendency or bond questions, please contact us Our 1 300 3 double 6 3 double 1 number and our friendly staff can assist you there Or again, our rta website has a lot of information available on it And there's a lot of information in relation to the investigation process as well as our dispute resolution process So just clarification in relation to and then you've just said that For the prosecution there's stewart that, you know, obviously to every case is on a case by case basis So it's really important that people understand that in relation to how you actually make a decision whether it's like a warning or The full prosecution That's right. Absolutely. It's a case by case basis Now we do look at the seriousness of the offence what the level of harm was to each party The likelihood that the offence is going to occur again Whether the party's engaged in some behaviors as some policy or procedure changes potentially to stop that behavior happening again We also look to whether or not it's in the public interest for us to take that enforcement action as well And lastly, we need enough evidence if we don't have enough evidence to have a reasonable belief of a prosecution then we will not prosecute Okay, so again just explaining that time frame so that when someone does submit an investigation request What is our time frame in finalizing the case altogether? So we have an absolute maximum time frame of two years And that's legislated. So there is there's no discretion there. It is it is two years So what that means is get those investigation requests in as soon as the decision is made that you wish to have the matter investigated Put the investigation request through it with as much information as you have at the time As well as the fact that the sooner you lodge it The fresher the it is in your mind the better your memory is going to be as to what occurred Okay, and again a lot of questions coming through we've had a lot quite a large audience today In relation to seeking like monetary situations and things like that and again It's just clarifying to it. That is through our dispute resolution process And again our dispute resolution process is a confidential process So if you're sending information through that process, it will stay in that process And likewise anything that's sent to our investigations team. It's that's confidential too. So that stays within our investigation area That's a very good point. If you have gone through the dispute resolution process The investigations team by law do not know that the ins and outs of what happened during your dispute resolution process There's confidentiality there. We are not informed as to what was said during that process All we know in investigations is whether or not the resolution process was successful or not So if you have told your story To a dispute resolution team member you will need to tell that story again to investigations Okay, and just some questions in relation to the bonsai things and there's been a very much big theme about Um, someone just asking can I lodge mid and end of month for your bonds? Well, realistically you may not be compliant with the legislation. The act's been around for quite some time It's very clear lodge the bomb within 10 days So it's probably best business practice to maybe choose one day a week To make sure that you are dispersing from your agency trust account and getting that bond in through that process The rta has launched recently And the ability to lodge a single bond online through the digital process that we have available on our website So that's an opportunity that is there. Um, and again the rta is still working through also creating more digital opportunities down the track for our forms There's a good question here that's come through stewart and I know that we have run out of time But I think it's really relevant for our audience Today and that is whether is the is it the property manager or a staff person that's taken to court Or is it the licensee or the company director that's going to be held responsible? Good question, uh, because we have one recently in court. So the company the director, uh, there's vicarious liability So what I mean by that is if the individual property manager for an agency does commit an offense Um, the agency themselves can be brought before the court To answer that charge However, and what we had recently was that uh, exact scenario where the agency was brought before the court However, the magistrate in their um, sentencing made it quite clear in their remarks that the offending really happened primarily by the uh by the agent The property manager in this case And as a result of that, uh, we went back and later charged that individual property manager as well And they were also found guilty of that offense Um, so either all parties and it is important to remember, uh, especially for the owners and directors out there Um of that vicarious liability and um, they can uh have the company end up in court for the actions of an individual Great. And just the last question too. There's um, just explain to what can happen in that court process So it's not just about a monetary fine. Is it Stuart? No, that's right. It's it's uh, it's not about the monetary fine as such. Uh, there are other, um, Issues that can arise for individual individuals or for companies. The first is that the magistrate, uh, Can seek a conviction to be recorded? Conviction recorded can have very real consequences For a company in terms of their licensing and other matters as well And if a conviction is recorded against an individual that can have very serious ramifications in your personal life as well Great. Look, we have just gone over time. Thank you everybody for staying with us Um, and again, thank you for attending today's webinar A short survey is going to appear once I close the webinar and we would really appreciate you completing this This is also an opportunity for you to provide us with feedback on the topics you would like to know more about So again, please just stay online Um for that survey to pop up as soon as I close the webinar Again, thank you very much for attending today Thank you very much Stuart for your time and the information that you've been able to share with our audience today Thank you