 alive. Great. Everyone, thanks for joining this session of the Hyperledger Meetup sponsored by the Denver Hyperledger Group. And today we have the pleasure of having Eddie Satterley join us and he's the CTO of one of and he's going to be talking about building the next gen Web3 loyalty with Hyperledger Fabric Indian Aries and we're going to go through a live demo of the one platform loyalty and we're going to look at how major media rewards platform is a part of this and we'll demonstrate the capabilities and how Hyperledger projects made all of this possible. So at this point I want to go ahead and turn it over to Eddie and throughout this presentation don't hesitate to either raise your hand or put a question in the chat and we'll get to it right away and then at the end of the presentation we'll also have a Q&A session. So Eddie over to you and take it away. All right, thanks. So I've been wanting to jump to this for a while so now I get to do it for real. Yeah so it's great to be here. Thanks guys. We have spent about the last six or seven months building a new platform that we call one platform but essentially built primarily around Hyperledger components. So I mentioned all the Indian Aries and Fabric but kind of at the core of all that's also Firefly and we're doing some work there too but kind of pulls everything together but really like why would three loyals here? There's all kinds of gimmicky things. There's all kinds of really niche things that are going on and then some brands who've done a really good job of this but really why it matters is it gives a brand a new way to engage with the user and that I can offer you something, let you work towards something, let you kind of gamify the experience and let you figure out how you want to do something. So the company we acquired last year which actually I came from was Tab Networks which was a loyalty platform that was already down a web 3 path to some point but this is going to jump the way ahead and move everything to a full Hyperledger back end. So but it's all about gamifying user experience and putting the user in control of their data meaning the user controls everything, how they interact, they get offers to do things they can choose to engage or not. If they want to take a physical good for instance then they have to provide a mailing address that they can send it to so that's their choice. They can also choose how they link their accounts between brands and what they share from one to another but kind of the most important thing to the adoption is hiding all the complexity from the users. So every user conversation I've had people either understand web 3 really well and they want to be expert users or they don't want to deal with it at all. They just want the ease of it and the ability to interact without having to deal with any of the complexities of how that works. So we kind of made that an easy button version of things and then moving towards decentralized ID is kind of the key to I think the future of what we want to do with being able to interact with the web 3 specifically and in order to get there you kind of have to make it transparent and easy for most of the people because people that aren't keeping up with the emerging technology that maybe aren't playing on devices all the time or software developers or people who are just experts in the space. Short of that it's really hard to find someone to even understand what it is and I've spent hours just explaining what it is to people and we're going to do another session on the decentralized ID part of our platform later in the fall kind of in more detail and do a hands-on bit on that but part of it is you got to make that easy so people can move that direction. This is a quick sample of a page from the redeem perspective about how you gamify things right you have to collect a series of things in order to be able to move to the next level. The why hyperledger part right so again new ways to engage new uptake putting users in control or the same thing we said before but really what it's about is permissioning is kind of the key to success for this and that firefly is bringing the whole thing together right so we essentially have a series of react apps a commerce app a loyalty app a wallet app um and we pull everything together in firefly so if you're familiar with firefly the eith connect and the fab connect are part of the current firefly offering we're currently building because we have with our media uh warner media that we have a contract with teslas foundation and we do all of our media um digital assets on teslas so we are in the midst of finishing up the teslas connect capability for firefly we've been working with the community and we'll be open sourcing that sometime in august uh once we gone through the last of things but we're extending that capability so that you'll not only have the eith and fab connect side but you'll also have a teslas connect capability in there too we pull everything together uh from an identity perspective with indy areas isn't really on here because it's really the client side of it but that lets us kind of pull this whole component version together so that we know exactly what we need from where um we're using the metrics plugin to collect metrics and then we're using postgres both to store index data so that we know exactly what's going on and can interface with the the web to front inside of things but also uh to be able to store a lot of information about stateful interactions and payments and other things that are involved with building this out but at the end of the day this is the primary components of what runs in the system and what the entire back end looks like so other than postgres which obviously is also open source everything else in here is driven off of hyper ledger and even honestly our user signup side is driven off of keycloak so also open source so it's oss from the beginning the admin app which i didn't talk about in the beginning is really the ability for a brand admin to go in and create an offer to you know mint a badge for you to allow you to set up a set of collection items for you to be able to redeem which we'll see in the demo but the idea there is that you know an admin can go in depending on their level of complexity and capability can go in and do each of these pieces themselves from minting an nft without even really knowing that's what you're doing right to creating loyalty points which is really creating an urc20 token and putting that in somebody's account so that they have a a token or for you know a an entry token to enter into a game or sweepstakes which has you know no monetary value but again it's just another urc token type that's there and this entire system as i said before is all all built around the the hyper ledger framework hey eddie yeah uh we got the question about what cloud environment uh you're referring to in the slide here so multiple clouds to be honest uh so kind of a lot of the core capability is uh using aws currently the hyper ledger side of it is is in the midst of being moved over to obp and using oracles cloud so it's it's a combination of both currently we also have a an environment that will be built on azure later in the fall for a customer who wants to go in that direction so it's kind of cloud agnostic from that perspective we have nodes running across multiple clouds and multiple azs within the clouds so that everything's fully redundant the previous thing yeah all right here we go so i talked about gamification like i said we'll go through this a little bit in the demo but really it's about how do you engage with the customers to get them to take a series of actions to get them to you know follow someone or save a track from someone so in this example again right you can you can basically save a save a track on spotify you can follow someone on spotify you can enter sweepstakes to win some kind of a a ticket or an experience or a collectible item and then you can do a series of things so if you go into the platform top listener what does that mean it means i need to have you know listen to at least three tracks so i have listened to these three in the past or in this case i haven't right so i need to get three more so i can go out to this it's going to link me out to the spotify application in this case and let me go listen to that track and get a response back that i've completed it and then this will be marked as completed right so one of three and then two of three and then three of three and once i have all this i can go redeem it and get a special badge which is a you know top listener badge in this case but this lets me set a series of challenges that people can do or set some games of chance right from a sweepstakes perspective and think about what people would do to you know get Taylor Swift tickets these days if you put a sweepstakes out for Taylor Swift tickets lord knows what you get um because you're people paying 25 to 50 thousand dollars a ticket now to get into some of the shows so but you could you can make it a gamified experience to do collections to do saves to get rewards for you know following certain users or doing playing certain tracks we're going out and you know looking at a specific series of media things that you have to do or you know sharing social media information sharing your track you save non-social media all those things are gamified ways that you can engage with the customer to let them basically collect a series of things that lets them then combine those into something more interesting which could be free tickets to a show could be you know a special track which is a very popular one you know putting some vault content inside of an nft and making it a special track you can't get any other way meaning there's you know a track you know the original recording which you used to get to buy at a record store on some special thing you now could get this way and have a recording that nobody else has unless they've gone through the same process or getting access to different alternative cover art is another popular one or you know some special ownership in a track which we've done most recently with a couple of platforms so there's there's a number of ways that you can engage with people to get some series of actions all of which being stored on the ledger as a an action and all of which results in being awarded a badge which is essentially an nft right so you're you're getting an nft and then you're able to redeem series of events these for others so you're doing a burn and swap kind of configuration to get different things but each of these actions results in generating either an nft or a token that you can use to say enter a sweepstakes or play a game of chance all right so we have some random spend and scratch style games as well that let you take a chance on doing something with one of those entry tokens so there's a number of the things that popped up in the chat in a series of questions there was one question about uh functionality on ibm so i'm assuming that's related to the cloud environment and you said it was agnostic but uh maybe you can talk a little bit about sure absolutely so currently like you said we we have aws and oracle is rolling out as we speak matter of fact that my team is working on a lot of that today so those are already supported like you said in the in the fall we have a customer who wants us into the azure environment so we'll be doing that as well um ibm has not been a requested uh platform so we do have some patches that we've needed to have put into two four something two four five i think uh two four of hyper ledger in order to make some of this functionality work the way we need it to so uh we could not run on oracles two two four which was their standard obp so we're running a early release of obp's two five support which is coming out a few months from them as a production release but we're running an early release of that to get functionality needed i believe ibm's is still on an older version of fabric but we could assuming they update to something after the patches that we needed to have and we we've uh paid a couple community members to to build some patches and get them pushed in and then we've had some cooperation with some other community people on what we've done and what they've done to get some of the capabilities in to be able to build this in a in the way we needed to be built so that would be the only limitation perfect so kind of at the core of all of it um and to me i think the most interesting piece is getting the d id side of it set up so being able to do the decentralized id so we essentially when a user comes into the system right so we're gonna basically create a account for them um we are going to and this is a verification one not a creation one here but nonetheless we when a user logs in they go into key cloak they can log in whether it be with a you know email and password or whether it be with one of the social media social login options they can basically pick one of those and set up the account or we have the ability to use a author SAML providers for our our brands that want to connect into theirs as well and make them a brand login capability and at that point we use key cloak to set up a user id and account for them then we go out to the wallet app which essentially then creates a wallet in whatever chains are registered with that user environment so fabric is always the case because we use that as not only our DLT for recording everything but also fabrics at the core of all of them but we could also as you saw in the earlier slide connect out to polygon or we have we make support coming later in the fall um we can support ETH although we haven't had a request yet um we support Tezos because of the the uh Warner music relationship so um we we basically then go create a wallet for each one we tie that back into your did that we create on nd and then there becomes a series of vcs for the brands uh and what they're connected to so you would have one did and you could choose to assuming you use the same information use that on multiple brands platforms going through our our login platform um or you could have a separate one for each one if you wanted to keep your information separate right you'd have to use a different email phone number combination but you could certainly have your your account for brand a being say Warner and brand b being say Pepsi you could use a totally separate login set or you could use the same one and pull the information together in a single did with separate vcs for each one of the brands so it's set up to make it where the user is in control and they can decide what they link or don't link between brands so that's that's kind of a unique thing here that in all the conversations I've had anyway is something that no one else has really done a very good job of it's either trying to tie it all to some centralized thing that they control or it's tying it into a platform where the brand owns the data and we do not want that to happen um having the brand on the relationship of course they do but having the brand owned the data for the user um I think we're all trying to move away from that in the new world but we use the kind of traditional kind of bottom right picture of the older issue or verifier process that is kind of common against the the idearies framework and unfortunately a non-crisis wasn't quite available at the time we started building this out so we didn't move to that extreme just yet but I think we'll probably end up there in the near future right so now let's make sure the demo god smile on us today if we can get green outline means everything's good yeah raw all right so this is an example where we are this is Warner's um dev environment so you know not as pretty as it could be but essentially we have a homepage that has a series of drops that sit on here um or offers or whatever you decide to put here all of this is programmable by the admin so each one of these sections is something you control you can edit in the admin editor and it'll change the pages live so each of these things can be moved around you can re prioritize them up and down it's all programmable from a white label perspective to be able to have a different view depending on what you want colors these are Warner's colors but could be anything um the basic earn gives you the capability to do things like I talked about from a gamification perspective which is you know follow someone save a track um enter sweepstakes so I'm not logged in currently so I'm not going to have the ability to do this but if I am so it's just going to be some kind of a sweepstakes that I can enter I can spend a token and enter that so I would know what I have I'm showing you the not logged in version first um if I go to redeem things you can see what you've collected and how how many of something you need I need to go follow a track or save a track or other if it is not important so let me log in real quick yeah that's all right so now I'm logged in as me so now when I go to see things I can actually go do things like you know go follow a track uh or not this is what you get for demoing in devs um sorry our staging environment is being deployed today so I'm demoing in a dev environment and hoping that things are gonna work there you know that one worked so I can go claim an item I can go look at redemptions and see what I have so if I want to go do this I can go collect which is a follow yeah Spotify link's not working oh it's because I'm not logged in Spotify um yeah anyway so this would normally take me out let me follow an artist or save a track and then I'm gonna collect an item I can then go look at the my rewards to see what I have don't give me my badges it'll show me my challenges and then let me edit my profile and because I'm not logged in it never fails um yeah that's not gonna work and of course demo guys do not smile today but this is the the concept is the ability to earn things and take actions to do stuff to enter sweepstakes to you know go test whatever it is and three other rules now I can go enter sweepstakes I don't have enough tokens so I have to go earn one right so I've got all the series of things that I have to do to be able to figure out whether I have entry tokens or whether I have the ability to do something following artists and save artists gives me those entry tokens so that I can go down and enter these the collections the redemption collection ones show you a couple of these because these are right so I need a yellow and a blue to make a green in this test example right so I gotta be able to go collect each of these in order to be able to redeem them in so it's gonna tell me if I go to burn it if I go to use the yellow and the blue to make a green it's gonna burn and I'm gonna say okay and then it's not gonna have any so it's not gonna work sorry that I had to demo in depth today but this is this is the concept of what it looks like right so you have the ability to modify each of these sections move things around you have the Katy Perry and Taylor Swift stuff each one of these is a section that you controls and admin and you can put things there you can create drops so for the people who understand what that is versus not but that's that's the the unfortunately quick version of the demo let's see if anyone has any specific questions about the demo and what are you seeing the biggest traction in what you're doing with warm music there is it that the fan base is really charged up about getting unique NFTs for an artist or they're looking for alternate cover art but what is kind of what you're seeing as a trend there yeah I mean the majority of the the interest is in you know the ability to collect something interesting right I mean unfortunately the market we're in now not a whole lot of people care about the NFT value so the majority of people that are engaging are engaging from the perspective of they want to go collect something interesting or they're interested in entering a sweepstakes to get a unique ticket to something or a ticket to something they couldn't get otherwise or you know you said the unique items the kind of vault content that's that's the majority of where the interest is okay perfect look like we have a question about if you could build out the NFTs on Hedera hashgraph has that been a consideration or how would that integration look like I'm sure you could not not something that we've looked at from that perspective I mean it certainly could be if there was user interest we might look at going a different direction but for now I think kind of what we've built out has been very specific around this stack okay um let's see what other questions we have here there's a question about tracking the value of the NFT over time in more music as the demo showed have you looked at there so talk a little bit about that Eddie yeah there's there's a couple things so one is we'll be rolling out over the next couple months some new functionality to allow for a secondary marketplace that will obviously drive a lot more understanding as to what the value is in a lot of cases people will probably trade more than anything else based on the kind of feedback we've gotten so far but certainly it would set a value for things especially things that people really want to collect for a reason right part of the idea of collecting a set of three things or five things or whatever to redeem them for a badge or to redeem them for a product is in getting people to you know engage more but part of that is that you know just like the monopoly game at mcdonald's right everybody wants the park place because it's the one nobody can get if somebody gets the park place it's you know worth a million bucks right in this case it's not going to be the million bucks but it's going to be that one unique item that maybe only 10 people have and someone's willing to pay you for that item to get say a ticket to a show that they want that you maybe don't care about but you were lucky enough to to get that in a random selection of an item so when you're collecting those sets so we think a lot of the value from the conversation so far what we've seen is going to be around building those collections and figuring out how to work with others to trade things that they want for what you want right one of the biggest problems with redeeming in a in a loyalty platform today is i can only redeem for the things you give me an option for and maybe i don't need uh you know a companion ticket instead i'd much further have a first-class upgrade you know to think of the the plane version of it but i can't get a first-class upgrade and you can't get a companion ticket so why don't we trade those right and the idea is to enable that kind of interaction which again gamifies more things and lets people figure out how to get what they actually want from the loyalty system versus something that maybe they don't care about and a lot of the offers will make that even more expansive yeah looks like we got a good great question here about uh how do you track the authenticity of any type of nft that's issued through the platform and verify that it's you know definitely related to that artist and definitely related to warner music well given that these are all created from a warner perspective i mean the warner admins create them or our admins create them with the warner team in this case we know they're authentic there's no way for them not to be because the only way to mint onto the specific platform in general however for like the shared platform environments there's an entire take down process there's a AI capability to look for things that we know shouldn't be there so there is a whole process around authenticity on that in this particular the one platform case it would be the admins of the brand that are creating them so if they're using you know a major brand like warner's obviously not going to use somebody else's ip without permission so in these cases it's it's easier to do okay perfect and then looks like gary has a question about just getting a very simple explanation of what you described there i don't know if there's any more distillation you can do eddie or did you pretty much get it to the brass tax well i i think maybe a slightly simplified version is that you know people want to engage with a brand in certain ways and we really want to enable that brand to engage with you the way you want people also want to be challenged in a gamified world right so we've gotten a lot of user feedback and and different studies that we've done on that and people really want to be interacted with in a gamified way it's just kind of the way we think today so being able to do things like collections and random drawings and sweepstakes and those things gives you a way to gamify the experience and get people to understand how they want to engage how the brand wants to engage them and how to bring those two together perfect uh we have another user eddie that's asking about the get repo for your open source uh content so do you have any link that you could share uh we would yeah the tessus the tessus connect um framework which will be open sourcing sometime next month uh that will be obviously done through the hyper ledger foundation so it'll be just another connector under the hyper ledger firefly tessus connect side um so we won't we won't have our own get repos for that uh the remainder of the components will be opening over time we're writing a bunch of specifications for things um and getting feedback currently uh to make sure that we do things in a way that's usable by a larger community so there will be a series and in september when we do the talk on our indiaries framework side we will definitely have a couple of repos to share at that time but things are are progressing and we're getting things kind of buttoned up and then we'll be opening up a lot of the code perfect uh we've got another great question here from bobby she's on the call bobby if you want to come off and just ask the question directly that'd be great or i can uh read it off to eddie here hi john how are you i'm doing great thanks bobby for joining always thank you and eddie great information um i'm interested in this because again i run ledger academy which is uh blockchain university um in the metaverse and i'm interested in badging systems and earning and gamifying education so for someone like me who has like the brand already and just needs to get this process going what steps would you suggest to get me started like is there a repo i could copy like what would be like a go here first kind of idea yeah well it's it's kind of complicated honestly um there's a lot of pieces that you kind of have to pull together to make this work in a meaningful way so um like i said with with us kind of opening up the ability for others and we have some brands that are going to run some nodes on our did infrastructure as well as not just us and multiple clouds but also you know letting others run nodes on the did side and then uh the ability to do the badging and such i mean it's all available in uh between firefly and fabric but there's a lot of tricky things to setting it up properly and then getting all the permissioning tied together so you know we'll we'll start publishing a lot more of that and opening that up but with any kind of chain currently it's still complicated to do and the permission chain is kind of key to make this stuff work so hyperledger is obviously a great fit for that but there's a bunch of pieces to to move around in this if you want to reach out to me separately i'm happy to have a conversation with you about some ways you might be able to start something separately or we can talk about how you could tie into our did framework as we open it up to allow others to become part of it excellent actually i'm going to be on the call Wednesday okay fireball so i'll ask questions uh more then so okay yep okay perfect thanks bobby that sounds like exciting stuff and i look forward to that further discussion uh next thing is there's a user wanting to know about recovering their nfts if they lose their identity credentials so you know that's always a challenge with uh blockchain and identity so eddie we maybe want to respond to that one absolutely so basically we set the platform up based on the way that the brand wants to do it our recommended way is to do you know a multi-sig shared custody thing so that we can always recover when we set it up we set it up well we always will set it up in a multi-sig environment we will set it up where depending on what the brand wants where the user controls you know both keys where you know we make it all custodial and we control all the keys and they make a assigning request and then we do it we can also have a shared ownership where the brand has you know do three and the brand has one and the user has one and we have one in case we go away the two of them could still maintain that asset and the asset control but the the same would be true if the brand went away for some reason you know two of us could still do the two out of three configuration but we always recommend at a minimum that we create two keys let the user have one and we store one in a vault so that it can be recovered later so that you don't lose your asset because I agree as someone who has lost a hardware wallet access in the past it's not a lot of fun and it is not enjoyable at all to know that you've lost that so we we kind of designed around not letting you lose it so that there's a recovery key capability at a minimum perfect and we had another question here uh from pravin and their question is is it going to be a consortium network that is the eventual plan that we have yes so initially we want to get the did side and all of our indiary stuff set up to where we have others running identity nodes that can also onboard issuers and verifiers and run nodes of their own but eventually for all of it we wanted to be set up as a consortium at some point in the future that's a harder thing to do right now with brands and the current state of the web 3 world but I think that will change okay I've had a question for you Eddie which is really around you know we're talking about Warner music here and you had Taylor Swift up on your display there and you know one of the concerns that's you know we've heard in the news is availability of tickets uh and getting tickets that are scooped up by the scalpers and then you know people that are really the fans can get access to tickets so is there anything that you've looked at as far as maybe partnering with somebody like live nation to address some of those issues using a you know identity that let's say an individual fan would have an identity and therefore if they've gone through and done their verification they would have an allocation of x number of tickets and then you want to make sure that each fan that signed up for that platform would get their requisite number of tickets we have certainly had a series of conversations I can't speak in detail to those right now but there's been a series of conversations with different ticketing agencies that and even venues that will hopefully lead to a future where we can do that or at least tie it to the label or the artist so that there's an ability for you to be you know a super fan or whatever and have that badge and let that token gate your access to an early sale or to a guaranteed sale meaning you can get one ticket or two tickets for sure before it becomes available to a general market so the whole token gating and and gating based on experience is definitely something that we have talked to a number of folks about hopefully you'll see something out by the end of this year great yeah that I think that'd be very helpful to both the fan base and as well as the artists because it's always a challenge for them that you know the scalpers come in and now all of a sudden the prices go way up and the real fans get locked out of the market so okay great we got a question here from Jerry participating in running notes what is the roadmap ideas here as in who are you asking to run a note currently they would be brands participating in the platform um that's that's the the current state of what what we're looking to open the network up into um we also have a couple of other companies who are doing things in the the did space on the consumer side as well as another company that's doing some web 3 base defi stuff that is looking at writing some common specs with us so that we could share our our did infrastructure with them and they could run nodes and we could do that work so a technology approach that's similar in complementary we would certainly be open to anyone that wanted to do that and then the brands there's a couple of brands who have directed interest in and doing their own thing so okay and then I have another question for you Eddie around we've talked a lot about the music industry here and the great work that you're doing there are there other verticals that you're exploring for this platform and I know you know loyalty is always a big thing for a lot of companies and let's say something in the hospitality arena have you done anything with the hospitality industry um yeah we are our next kind of series of clients that are coming out and I can't give brand names but the next series of clients that are coming out are um in the textile space as well as one in the entertainment space so uh that those are going to be the ones that will come out this fall um with their platforms there's another tech company that's coming out as well on the platform over the next couple months so I mean there there's there's going to be a number of different verticals and people who have interest in a kind of next-gen solution in the space we're also working with some of the classic loyalty systems to see how we can engage and partner with them and how we might be able to build a joint solution that lets you move from the legacy way of you know emailing and spamming people to add an actual interaction that somebody wants where they've opted into it and you know they want to to do something with you because you've gamified it or because you've offered them something perfect uh looks like we have another question here from Barun we already have a working solution with ip's for this kind of application in concentrics here's a link so are you familiar with what concentrics is offering I am not okay I guess the other question I'll ask for you is you know you talked about some of those other ones how about the sports arena it seems like you know there's a lot of parallels between music artists and sports figures and what's kind of your thought around you know the sports industry as well sports is challenging for a couple reasons one because who owns what is a big continued fighting point in the sports arena so you know venues own access to certain things and teams own access to certain things and then the leagues you know be it you know MLB or NBA or NFL own certain things and then the athletes themselves own a much smaller set of things so it's it's a challenge as to who to work with we've had a number of conversations and some continue on but one of the bigger problems there is just who do you talk to to get certain things and you know you'd have to engage both a team and a league and sometimes a venue and also an athlete to get a package of things you would want to offer and that's been consistently made very difficult across all of the major sports leagues so the reason I think you don't see more of this is because of that I mean I partnered with a former NFL star in one of my previous companies doing some interesting stuff in the space and the things of his own that he didn't own were super interesting and it pictures himself because it was in a certain arena or because he was wearing the team's jersey he didn't actually own the rights to so it creates a whole lot of challenges right so that arena until we start fixing some of that stuff and clarify who actually owns what is much harder to deal with yeah no that's a brilliant answer eddie and that's exactly what I was trying to get to the bottom of is you know how does the music industry compare to the sports and it sounds like there's a lot of more pitfalls in the sports arena to deal with than there are and necessarily the music industry okay great looks like we have another good flow of questions coming through and then here's a abram junior I have a novice question how would a consortium mentioned previously work isn't that contrary to the point of web three well the consortium would be more towards running a series of nodes that are decentralized or towards running you know a single say hyper ledger fabric with multiple orgs and msp set up in it right so what you're doing is kind of letting the user control as I mentioned kind of in the presentation whether they share data between brands or they use a different email and and password or phone number or whether they use a different social media account to log in so that they're not linked that's up to the user whether they pull that together so you can stay completely separate and create them all with different login capabilities or you could put them together as various ways of you know letting you link your relationship with one brand to another and the same thing on the consortium side when you're when you're running nodes it doesn't mean that those companies are in charge of the dids all of a sudden it just means they're one of many companies that would be running a node on a decentralized infrastructure and they would have their own capability to on board verifiers and issuers just like you would and it just kind of extends and lets you match a unique did between those platforms so it still stays decentralized and it still keeps everything separate but the consortium is more to manage and run the infrastructure behind it and the standards that we comply with to make sure we protect users and brands unique ability to interface with their customers without doing what most tech companies do today and steal your data okay looks like Gary's got a good question here and you know we were talking about the different verticals and it sounds like he wants a little bit of a deeper dive into the entertainment vertical and so he's asking about uh are you attempting to work end to end as far as suppliers venues entertainers production companies advertisers within the ecosystem so you know you have Warner music or Warner media how does that all play into those other vertical components well of course we'd like to play across the whole stack right and we are working towards that in getting relationship with other brands uh and kind of moving in that direction but the reality is it's all so disparate currently uh but it's it's not easy to just stitch all of that together right I mean the the brand in this case Warner has access to a certain number of tickets at a certain concert in a certain venue but that has nothing to do with the venue where they they have an allocation of tickets that are given to them as as the label right there's there's also many other ways in which one part of the supply chain has access to something that others don't right the production side the advertising and marketing side those are all separate but equal I mean kind of in the way our government's supposed to work right they're separately equal branches and each do their own thing and they don't really work very well together so stitching those together is a very interesting thing and we're really trying to do it but there's not a lot of easy when you say entertainment supply chain in this case there really isn't one of those there's a whole bunch of different pockets that deliver different capability in the entertainment industry yep perfect answer uh great job here's another question we have from Maki and it looks like Maki's asking I shot verifiable credentials on the architecture how exactly is that used in your case so they're asking about verifiable yep yeah so the the user creates when they log into the platform with a unique new way of logging in like I said where there's an email phone number password or it's a socially creates a did on the indie side the portal that they logged into say in this case the Warner portal is what creates the verifiable credential for Warner so you have a Warner loyalty account it's then a verifiable credential that's issued by the Warner platform that says you know John you have an account on Warner and here's the information for your account so Warner has issued a VC for that when you go to log back into Warner again it's just going to verify your credential to make sure that you have a loyalty account on Warner and say you've earned a thousand new points that we've allocated those to you in the platform right so all that stuff is tracked in your your VC that comes from Warner saying you're a Warner loyalty member with this ID so that's and it would be the same with any other branded on boards right they become an issuer and they issue your credentials so you use your same account to log into Warner that you do you know I I'm a United Airlines fan I'll use them so to log into your United account and use the same ID I have a VC from United so that I can access United's portal to get their rewards it'd be great if they did that by the way they won't use anything modern but if they did it'd be cool to have them have a web theory platform so I could trade some stuff I really would like to have and a bunch of stuff I don't want and they'll let expire every year okay perfect let's see if we have any other questions from the community if you want to go ahead and post those in the chat feel free to do so and we'll make sure that Eddie runs through those I guess maybe what I'll ask you Eddie is just about more the hyper ledger community and how the maintainers and developers are really collaborated with your company to make sure that your platforms are success and I think you know we're always interested in how the hyper ledger community is thriving and maybe you can talk a little bit about that sure um yeah so obviously I engage in pretty regular calls as the lot of people on my team with the various uh different projects um on the fabric side like I said we collaborated by finding someone who had committed some code that we needed a patch done to and reaching out to them and you know they're they're an independent so we just paid them for their hours and they pushed a patch in for us that we wanted uh we've also on discord and through community calls we've had conversations about patches we needed and some of the things we're working on and some people have just said hey I was working on that anyway or hey we're doing it this way but if that works for you great and if not maybe we could work together to get this next stuff done as I mentioned we're going to open source the tesis connector for firefly and we've been on regular calls and eco leads on the firefly project and talking and getting feedback on the right way to do it so that we release it in a way that could be adopted immediately by the firefly side of things um so there's been a lots of different ways you'll also for my team you'll see people that are regularly on discord not only asking questions but answering them um mona for my team on the indiary side she's been very active in that community um so I mean it's it it's really about engaging on discord getting on the community calls figuring out what you need and reaching out to the right person I've never had anyone ignore me or not respond you know if I can find who committed the code that I'm really interested in on you know say indy and I find out it's you know this guy from Accenture I've had no issue pinging him and saying hey can we have a quick conversation about this or if I you know could give you this set snippet of code would you be willing to you know merge it in with the next thing as it shows you're working on an issue that's related it's been very open yeah that's wonderful to hear eddie and that's my experience as well as people want to keep the community moving forward and there's a very vibrant community for help and usually when somebody has a strong need they can reach out right away and get some resolve quickly so that's good okay it looks like uh we've got jerry rogers coming in with a question here what would it mean to become a participating brand and I guess they're asking about is it big money tech participation etc so maybe you can that yep well yet the answer to that question is it can be a combination of of money and participation um you know for some brands they just want to pay for you to do it all so we have a full managed service offering and we do everything for them in which case it costs a lot more money for others it's as simple as you know paying a monthly wallet fee per user and we run the infrastructure for others there's an opportunity for one of the companies I was talking about that looking at running nodes like there's an ability for them to run nodes and pay a much smaller amount to be part of the the platform and have the capability to run it so I mean obviously cost us money to run it in the cloud environments and we we will recoup costs at a minimum but you know there is a way to do it in in a couple of different scenarios depending on what you're looking for right from you do all your own admin and and all we do is provide a platform for you to we literally do everything for you including creative and art and ip verification and everything so there there's definitely a a wide range of how that works perfect the other thing I'm going to just say is you know you talked a lot about firefly here and you talked a lot about fabric if there's people on this particular session that want to you know reach out to you or reach out to the community and help push this forward how would you recommend people get a hold of you can you maybe post your discord username or other ways to reach out to you if they want to help and participate along the lines of what you've talked about earlier yeah i'm not real hard to find so like eddie satirly on everything um and i'm eddie at one of dot com if you just want to email me but on search for eddie satirly you'll find me on every platform you want and if you google me you'll find my phone number please don't call unless it's important but you can text okay perfect yeah now the main thing is eddie the main thing is eddie sounds like you're working on some wonderful work here and really pushing both the music industry forward as well as the hyperledger community and i want to make sure people have the opportunity to work with you that's great okay let's select here uh and then alfonso thanks for joining alfonso really great to have you on this call and he's wondering about a presentation possibly in spanish do you have anyone on the team that might be able to do that type of presentation eternally uh i do yep yeah we have uh one of our tech resources it's in south america that speaks vanish so yes we certainly could do okay that's wonderful and what i would suggest eddie is uh for you and alfonso to connect offline and alfonso runs the hyperledger community uh in latin america there and so he would be a great collaborator to get that out as far as spanish language content sounds great okay uh looks like someone's just looking for conversation on discord we kind of already talked about that alfonso great glad you're going to reach out to eddie about the spanish language content which is perfect and uh so i guess at this point eddie we're coming up on the top of the hour if anyone has any final questions or you want to make any final remarks please do so and then eddie i think we'll just bring on this session to a close sounds good thank you appreciate your time everyone thank you yeah thank you eddie okay thanks everyone yep have a wonderful day thanks john