 Hello everybody. If it's Wednesday and guess what it is here in the Eastern time zone by just 15 minutes, it's Warhammer. Uh, it must be time for another episode of Warhammer weekly joining me as always, both my co-hosts again, my one co-host and my other one co-hosts. What's up, Tyler? How are you doing? Good. I feel the most powerful here tonight. I am very, very powerful night out Tom. I can already see it. You might struggle here, buddy. Yeah, I'm up at like, I'm up at like five every morning with my kids right now, so it's gonna be great. I'm in this. Vince, I'm here for you, buddy. And I appreciate that. You really are. And I do appreciate that. Thank you both for being here at this unusual hour. I am also a night owl, so this is no big deal for me. But I am up very, very, very, very, very early tomorrow as my, I have a medical procedure quite early tomorrow morning, hence this show, because I will be unable to function, I suspect, for most of tomorrow. I am feeling better. I will feel much better once I'm done with that surgery tomorrow. So, but we'll, we'll go from there. Hence, hence the unusual time for the show. But thank you all for everybody reached out and all the well wishes and everything. I haven't went back and watched last week's show. I'm friend. I was afraid I would be horrified by what I saw with me being just completely gone. This week, we're going to talk about battle scroll. We're going to get into the battle scroll, talk about everything related to it, FAQs and all of that. But first off, the news. Tyler, what do we got? It's a rim or engine looks like a 40k thing or Tom, maybe a, does this look like any character on thing? It's not. No, I literally, I literally moved hundreds of dwarf models today. I assure you, it's not any, it's not that design does not show up at all. Mufflers are not there. Yeah, it's a 40k thing. Thank you. Next. Okay. Next. Looks like we have a champions of Sona Kickstarter. Yeah, I'll talk about that one. So squid mar launched his champions of Sona Kickstarter. He gave me a chance to paint one of the models for it. So I'm pretty sure that like I ended up painting the same one that Arnau Lazer out did and Arnau is, I don't know, I'm saying his name quite a, quite a match. Yeah, indeed. And I apologize, Arnau, if I'm saying your name wrong in any way, because I'm bad at pronunciations in general. Please know that I have nothing but the utmost respect for you as truly one of the greatest painters in the world. He is maybe my favorite painter. And, but it was, it was great. His model is certainly a better version than mine, but I was very proud of what I was able to do for it. So, but the Kickstarter is super awesome. I love the figs that, that Squiddy's launching. I just think he did an amazing job at the entire range. It's basically like three elves, three orcs, three humans, they're all in 75 millimeter scale. The world that he sort of set all these in is super cool. Like the elves are bionic and like half, they've like cybernetic to themselves out and now it hurts them because they can't evolve or adapt anymore, all that kind of stuff. Like it's just neat stuff. I like that. I like, I like when we blend, you know, sort of science fiction fantasy together. So check it out. Yeah. It's super cool. I'll link it down in the, in the description, but the Kickstarter for it, but the sculpts are just, they're amazing. They blew my mind. You and mine show up. It was an absolute pleasure to paint. So there you go. Alright, next up. Yeah. So we got Sunday, the preview, slaves, darkness box. That's the ogre battle tomb is on its way, which is fantastic to see. So they included a note about how the war school cards are only going to be available for a little while in this box set. For the foreseeable future. For the foreseeable future. That's what they said. The photo doesn't include the full pack in the one it would look like if you bought it separately. And then yeah, awesome box set. So we should have all the rules. The final complete set of the rules apart from what's leaked this weekend. Yeah guys, I've got a couple more games in against them with this battle. It's hell of a battle. It's exciting. And I'm really hoping that they've done a good job with this ogre battle. This is a this is a good test. I'm very excited about both of them. They did also mention in the article that there is a error or something in the in the printing like this was in the this is in the you know, the little jokey footnotes they often put in that you the people skip. This one was a real footnote. There was some kind of error in the printing that will get corrected. They said Saturday when they when it goes up for preorder. So cool. So we got a vanguard box for ogre mob tribes as well. Looks like glutton's and some lead belchers and iron blaster tyrant. I mean the new hotness. You you had me at glutton's. I saw that we saw the preview on the website. They said two inch reach. They said rend neg one. I was like, I don't know what we're why are we talking about any other model? Age of the glutton is upon us. You know the the probably bounty hunters is going away soon. The age of the glutton has dawned. So there we go. I'm I am stoked. It's great. I mean like this has been a this has been a the early part of the year was just a there's a lot of tomes that came out that I just could not have cared less about. I'dneth I sleep fire slayers I sleep just over and over again all this stuff now this part of the year sons ogres s2d. This is just this is just bomb after bomb. We're dropping here. It's great. I'm excited. Good stuff. And then Soneth is getting a vanguard box as well. Lord which of course you could do Derthu or two of ancient three Karnath which you can make one of the three and then five true revs plus branch which so pretty easy to build a son of army and get to 2000 points very quickly based on that box alone and that's just the army. Right. Yep. And then finally sense of bay meant war scroll cards are also coming out. I'd miss that. I didn't realize that they apparently had not been released yet. You mean all four was five. Yeah. Sorry. Five. Yes. Like they're five and they made them so you know basically two of the profiles on four of the five giants are identical now because they all have the same stomp and almighty stomp and death grip. They all have the exact same rules exact same everything right. The only difference is the main weapon and even the wheel profile is basically the same on all of them. The only difference you have to remember is the smash is one higher bravery and king bra is one higher than that and five more wounds like that's that's it. But maybe it's the thickest people love war scroll cards. That's what I learned. Thickest card stock not a man special edition. Here we go. Yeah. Yeah. It's just like it's like a it's like a pack that's that thick. I mean every one of them is going to be one of the flipbook style which I hate the flipbook style cards. That's the issue with it for me. Like I love the war scroll cards when it's one side and you can just like flip through for the simple units you know but whenever I got to open the book I'm like what am I even doing here. This is ridiculous. Good. I think that's it. Yeah. As mentioned yes registration for holy wars also open today holy wars gt at gmail.com in the end of January if you want to come to another holy event which is awesome. Those are great events. Send in register or check out the site etc. Okay. Cool. Very good. Hit that up. Gentlemen. Let's let's keep it moving. Let's do some pick of the week. Tyler what do you want to share with everybody. Okay. Just because we're on a clock. One pick about that Tom. Yeah. Hammer of war battle report mission in a while. David and company over there. Great work. They had a new battle report and enjoyed a lot. New limaneth new slaves of darkness. Very interesting. My future cow. I might be seeing a lot of a lot of cows. I'm sure we're going to see a lot of cows. Yes. Alarith or what's his name Avalonorn at whatever he is. Yeah. Yeah. He he certainly woke up and is suddenly going to be around a lot. That guy. At our first five over the weekend. Teclas Eleanor stone mage by 10 stone guard 10 wardens run a petrification portal. There you go. Seems right to me. You don't need many units when all your units do good. Do good things. Be good. Do good. Yeah. All right. Tom what's your pick. I don't have a pick. I'm going to have to give a pick for you then because I got to you right. Here's your pick. Your pick is our good buddies over at re-rolling ones who brought Brent back as well as a spooky special guest which I will not give away here. No spoilers for a four way triumph and treachery game in honor of Halloween wherein they punish themselves in the worst way I can think possible. So they all played these like smaller death forces. It was one of each of the death forces like a flesh eaters a night haunt a soul blight you know so on. Right. And everybody an OBR and so everybody was was different death and in the middle of the table was like Nagash he wasn't actually there and alive he was just like a statue of Nagash. Yeah. And around Nagash they had piled like candy corn and those you know those little orange gross pumpkins you know I'm talking about. I do. Okay they're like big fat gross pumpkins but they're like you know like that they're like candy and there's like a you could you could sort of supplicate to Nagash and that could like hurt your unit or grab a bonus and in various ways you had to eat the candy and everybody was praying to Nagash the whole time every unit and they were eating so much of that terrible candy. Awful awful awful awful but it was a very fun game so check it out. My other pick of the week for myself is to Scott and John over on the Trapped Under Plastic podcast great podcast that came out yesterday around miniature painting and it was is getting good actually bad and the reason I loved this episode so much was because it dealt with something I've heard a lot that I myself have struggled with that as you sort of increase your skill in the as the as the as your ability to paint increases you will hit this point where you know what you're doing wrong but you're not sure how to fix it or how to make it look better in all cases and it will make you angry and you're like you know enough to know why you're bad but not necessarily how to fix what you're doing bad if sort of you know kind of thing as well as then not feeling like you don't know how you haven't really fully developed your speed muscle yet so you're not getting to the good enough place in a quick enough time just how do you deal with all that and I just thought it was a really great discussion of it so I liked that episode a lot so check it out great cool uh as you mentioned we roll ones I came home tonight to a box from one shoe from re-rolly ones I don't know I don't know what's in this box watch out it might be an assassin I'm just like he he is known to say send those that's all all I will say oh we're not gonna get alive unboxing I don't know okay maybe I could maybe I could do that I have to find a watch it there might be an assassin in there sure they're not they're not be a painted army I already had one of those and it's uh acquired enough guilt consternation from that for a lifetime and I agree here it is the situation I think with a lot of skills where that that same skill curve I think happens with a lot of things uh all right well while Tyler's seeing if we can open the box let's move on to some hobby time uh Tom hobby time let's start with you I mean you mentioned you were unpacking like 7 000 points of dwarves that's I assume part of your hobby time yeah so I um have been in boxes after my move last year um and I finally decided I needed a more permanent storage solution that was going to be flexible um I went with this brand of box called really useful box really and yep and they all stack and so there's like the perfect heights for like there's like a 32 liter and a 17 liter and a 11 liter they all stack like perfectly and what's a leader I don't know uh a you a volume measurement there you go and take a leader of cola they're british boxes and um the uh and so like I've been cutting deal sheets and like wrapping the edges and tape and you know in like electrical tape and like rounding everything off and making it nice and all that and I've done 18 boxes like 18 Tupperware containers that I've basically filled already and I'm still unpacking army boxes like I'm still unpacking painted models sure so but they're all good and then I've been like gluing and fixing up along the way and somewhere in the middle of that I also put together some models for commission that I'm working on and built some more of my models that I've been super stoked about and uh and let me just say for anybody out there that's running night haunt and running heavy blade guys for evidence any when you get you deserve it because putting those models together is the worst I started putting some of mine together and I just like I hate it I put a lot of model night haunt together I have like three box three of those of those 18 boxes are night haunt and uh it's a pain that like those models are truly a pain like they rival spirit hosts for a pain so congratulations for those of you that built 40 to 60 of them okay I might make it to 20 maybe okay well my hobby time has been spent mainly making videos because I needed to get a bunch of videos made because I don't know after tomorrow how long it's going to be before I'm able to sit down and record videos again I was worried about that so I've worked myself to get back up to a good number of of stuff in the production pipeline but I also managed to assemble my last mega gargant he's all converted here let's bring him up bum bum bum bum there he is sexy the king is here oh I like it I like his mini arms yes indeed he has tiny little mini arms you can see he's a little four armed king broad he's got a nice little grabby claw and so he can grab people in body slam them with the big with the big grabby arm big grabby claws yeah so there's king broad my version of him at least he's got his little crown with his horns and stuff so I'm excited about that guy get some pain on him as soon as I can whenever I can sit down again in paint uh so yeah that dude was super super fun to kit bash like truly my great joy with working with sons of bema is that you uh you can just like go nuts with conversions you can just have a ran oh just a while old time and I love that they made all of the pieces and parts the exact same size for the imperial knights as they did for mega gargants like their legs are the exact same height with the exact same two bends yeah their arms are the exact same length it's just they're working in one to one scale so it's really easy to like it's just really easy to sweep swap parts around and stuff like that which is awesome yes all right tyler do we know what's in the box what's in the box shoe hopefully not going to fall through fun storm cast gonna need his workshop uh make some point drops the classic sequiturs vacators maybe just doing a clear out we got like nine castigators here fellas oh i mean there's there's ready there's cash money there so here's the question is there an assassin in the box haven't located one yet okay just be careful gotten all the way through yet yeah they jump out of things i'm just warning you very nice tyler did you get anything painted this week at all have not i've been playing tts actually got to the store tonight for the first time other than around so that was nice nice but uh got a game in yeah slaves the four plus four plus rally pretty good gentlemen if you're not turning it off who knew got back 14 chaos warriors one game that seems reasonable and uh yeah it's it's a hell of an army yeah you know what the only the main thing in that book right now that i'm worried about is the rally so far everything else is felt okay i mean it'll probably be fine like like it'll probably be fine if it works for doc so hey there you go yeah and i mean it does work for uh it does work for fire slayers and that's like an unadmitigated like anything in the army and now they're now they only have three real units but anyways sure all right cool well gentlemen let's get to the the topic at hand then shall we uh which is battle scroll and i thought first we would start with this picture which is from the metawatch article that introduced the battle scroll and gives us a new picture of the the win rates things to notice is that uh we've got more people pushing up out of the uh out of the area up into the danger zone on the top and in the article they they said that that's pretty traceable to uh the incarnate the incarnate's inclusion in disciples of zinch and daughters of kain like they you know it's very easy for them to sort of regress the lists that were winners versus the lists that weren't and you know like the incarnate was clearly doing a lot of heavy lifting there right uh beasts continues it's uh absolutely crazy run uh being the most broken army in the game boy what a what a what a turnaround story there uh and then maggot kin uh as well being quite strong and then suns and bone splitas and seraphon all on the line all strong armies but obviously that none of this figures in the new sun's book so we'll have to see what you know happens there and they mentioned that so that's the world we live in still the same basic people down at the bottom fallen out the bottom of the list um shout out to gloom spite getting up to 45 percent way to go guys i assume the incarnate probably brought them up those percentage points as well uh but yeah it's aak troggs yeah indeed uh but of course cruel boys bone reapers ogres s2d and heat knights all down in the very bottom part uh and um yeah i mean obviously ogres and s2d sit on the precipice of a new book so we hope to see them uh brought you know up out of that that uh that no man's land the sad zone i guess we'll call it uh very soon we can only hope that'll leave us down there with the books that we're just gonna apparently be like yeah you're fine just stay down there just stay down there so nash bone reapers and cruel boys apparently the three armies that were just like you know whatever just i guess no one cares about you uh it's funny because i'm starting collections of two of those there we go uh well we had we had our guest we mentioned last week we had our good buddy win basically a cruel boys army so right between the three of us we're just bringing up the bottom if you want if you want to if you want to feel like you got them wins you know like you've earned them i'm just saying okay so uh so that's our sort of that's our sort of picture of our world this is obviously the rolling 60 day we'll see a lot how this looks next time it gets published sort of the next 60 days from now um and that'll have some of the new stuff from ogres and some of the new stuff from s2d in there and things like that uh so we'll see how that goes uh the greatest of sun says corn at 50 percent oh yeah oh yeah corn is for real since they changed blood type it got it all got very real very fast with the blood type change um okay uh let's go ahead and jump over here to the battle scroll itself shall we so october 2022 battle scroll changes in magenta they also clarified the battle scroll process in that they will be rolling and what stays will stay so it's always sort of current we're not messing around with things like the hunt anymore that's gone good we don't miss you and instead you know we just keep the abilities rolling here until they they roll off because you know whatever because a book comes out or some other thing uh changes them a white dwarf or whatever okay um so let's go through first off they just reprinted the purple sun of shahish we talked about this before this was a previous change a while back everybody seems happy with it i'm happy with it the world is a better place now post this change cool it's fine sure it's good it's the correct change uh they mentioned that it's actually still included in like 15 percent of lists so it's still busting the their their target goal from their their three principles what is what is the uh what's the meta for night hunt is it like eight percent or something like that six percent uh i didn't see a meta percentage in the in the thing so i don't know who knows well i'll put money that whatever percentage of the nine haunt lists that are out there all of them have a lot of them still run purple sun yeah yeah yeah when you're immune to the the basically the entire thing now because it's pretty easy to make sure you don't keep your guys within an inch uh you're you're you're rock and roll right right it's just it's just pure money yes i agree with ghost mutton and garith who said you should also watch the associated battle scroll design interview for insights totally agree uh it's a very very good interview uh okay so let's talk about our actual changes here first off beast of chaos the primal roar being changed to on a three plus you receive one primordial call point uh so no more d threes no more d threes keeping it a little on sixes yeah yeah so still around that that's probably fine i always hate things like that anyways like i just wish they wouldn't write rules like that where it's like i hate anything where it's like on a this or this nothing happens on a this plus something happens on a this plus plus something something happens right because that just is like a really annoying way to sort of construct a rule that you have to remember three different situations with just not a die roll pass or fail man pass or fail okay can we just keep it simple here did i hit or or did i miss did i wound or not did i save or or pass or really pass yeah yeah exactly okay uh uh bar tech says as a boc player i prefer they just deleted the four plus rally instead it's just not thematic four plus rally in general should be death only bar tech i agree with you i hope that that four plus rally goes away i think it's obviously way too good i don't know i kind of want it on zane or go on and skyfires sure uh i'd like to see it go away just i think yeah the rally is a whole separate conversation what we'll probably do a proud nails episode sometime before the end of the year and and boy oh boy is rally going to be on in my list um okay cool let's keep going uh we got a little change for our cruel boys let's see if this can help them out poisons and elixirs on your swamp call a shaman with pot grot uh and that is you delete the text that says instead of attempting to dispel an endless spell or cast any spells with this unit in that phase lordy lordy what a great change thank you your spellcaster can actually like give his boys the juice and still actually be a spellcaster what a wonderful world we've only learned this lesson five times that it's terrible to make people choose between when you're a spellcaster choose between casting spells and doing something else and you know there's a point in time where i was a big fan of this that sort of mechanic that sort of cost benefit mechanic i'm just not over time watching how it works it's just it's way too costly is what it boils down to because of what you pay for the spellcaster premium it just doesn't work in the game yep you're already paying to bring the spellcaster and then now you're paying to not use them right right exactly if it was that there are probably other things you could still execute that on and have it be of some value like don't do a thing and then you get a bonus like there's probably some things you could do that on like for example i could easily see them writing a monster where it's like if this monster doesn't do a monster's rampage then instead it gets this other thing that happens right yeah because it the monster that wasn't the whole point of his purpose was to do the monster's rampage right like he he moved around he counts as five on an objective he hopefully does some amount of damage you know what i'm saying like he can still fight like there's points that he's still making for your team in the general sort of addition of things but this is like you brought that spellcaster that's their only point it's that so good change i feel like we don't have many i can't think of any example any other example of this kind of design in the game this kind of opportunity cost i'm sure there are if anybody can think of any and be curious well i mean there's other things like that that play with opportunity cost i mean we just mentioned corn corn's bloodtide is a good example of that right i can use it to auto dispel a spell or summon somebody right i mean anytime you have a deep strike and i know this on silly you're choosing to deep strike rather than move and you think oh well that's an obvious like it's better mobility for the deep strike i can think about things like the black coach and stuff like that sure um but the the reality is is that like when you do that you set your charge to nine rather than like moving up for three inch charges which is like a really big deal like and so like this is this was my critique of the new black coach and why it like it was completely unwarranted for the points is because before one of its primary utilities was to move 22 inches and like jump into a pocket and then charge something you know like that needed to be removed and so it had this like very unique strategic like scalpel purpose for this huge chariot it could do something nothing else in the army army could do well now it does anything and you never see it does yeah it doesn't do anything right right and so yeah yeah it's interesting because two of the cascades have those opportunity cost summoning mechanics now which is slanesh and corn yeah right because slanesh if you burn your if you just sit there and don't summon anything you get like minor bonuses to your whole army effectively uh and corn obviously you burn points for either an effect or a summon right whereas nergal and zinch their summon mechanics are hey did you want to do the thing you wanted to do well do it buddy just do it hard and do it free models yeah and get free models for doing the thing you were already doing anyways right so interesting um the as we're talking to the like the enlightened where i don't know how it works now but you had to wait to activate oh sure yeah now it's just if you go second in the battle round you get a bonus uh i was trying to think about like more of those direct likely correlated tradeoffs on more scrolls but anyway um i mean uh uh hex rates have that right now like you can double your movement but when you do but then you can't attack okay yeah yeah i'm kind of interested in finding as many examples of those as possible just curious how much they've exported that space yeah i think you're right though yeah it could be easily easily go wrong with it yeah because the key is that you've got to really make sure that you don't make the unit not functioning the way it's supposed to for what should be just some kind of basic buff utility all right moving on to gloom spite gets gets um add the following to the note section of the arachnara spider with spider fang war party pitch battle profile battle line if the generalist spider fang we did it boys we got there damn it that was going to be my line we got there finally five years later yeah that's it literally battle line or rachnor ox yeah baby i mean it's not really gonna help the army like that's amazing that's the yeah yeah the 10 point reduction on the riders is actually a way bigger deal than uh than the the battle line rachnor ox but you know what i'll take it it's still cool it's still cool that you can make and that is the right that is the correct one by the way to be the battle line is the one yes war party yeah it didn't have a purpose previously and so now it has purpose yep um i still submit that the other fun thing they should absolutely write on to the arachnor ox with war party is that it should count as uh it should count as 13 models on an objective right like five for the spider and eight for the goblins eight for the goblins right yeah like you you put eight models on the on the hound up yes it should absolutely uh so i would but i'm super thrilled about this this is a fantastic change like a plus yes yeah like you know how many how many players we're just read this and we're so thrilled right people who love that like all five of us but you know what i'm okay with it the over but that that's like a 10 on enjoyment scale for all those players like really this is like the direct overlap of people the timmies who like spiders and wanted to run these giant monsters like this was a complete overlap of the two circles right mm-hmm yeah and and what did they move the points to on them they're like well we're gonna jump to the point yeah okay right now all right let's talk points uh because we got a lot of points changes uh we'll talk about these and say what do we think can actually move the needle versus just like okay that's cool right city of sigmar karybdis 130 down 20 points war hydra 145 down 20 points dreadlord on black dragon 255 down 20 points sorceress on black dragon 260 down 20 points executioners 110 down 20 points okay do any of these move the needle on cities of sigmar i mean i remember looking at the first two earlier in the year and they're both terrible it was horrifying how bad those were schools were so karybdis and war hydra so probably not there the executioners are yep and that's sorceress yep yeah because the executioners are they doing mortals on sixes they are they are sixes to hit but it's no longer in addition that's the problem some of the other models have an in addition clause they have a just and the attacks ends yeah two attacks each three threes and ten they can be battle line battle line of generalist darklyn coven yeah bonds of battle 25 mills 25 mills bad i could see some people give oh for a base save that's interesting i don't hate that yeah i think a 110 they're they're they're interesting i'm not sure any of this moves the needle like the ultimate answer i'll answer my own question no i don't think this moves the needle and the ex executioners have run in charge don't forget with the with their support yeah yeah not alone but yes they can i think it's to me what at the chain it opens up some new fun lists people will enjoy but it doesn't move the needle on any in any win or competitiveness but that's okay i do think it does open the door for some lists especially on the executioners because you will tend to take that multiple times so that 20 points might actually end up like being 60 to 100 in a list or something like that right whereas the dreadlord it's like yeah okay cool he's fine but like i don't know that he was he was pretty bad at 275 i'm not sure he's like a sudden winner at 255 right and in the end it's 20 points in your list all right seraphon engine of the gods up 20 to 285 lord croak up 20 to 450 sores aslith banner bearer up 15 to 155 skink priest up 30 to 120 slan star master up 20 to 285 and then the old blood on karnasaur down 20 and the skink oracle on troglodon down 20 you got you love to see it okay seraphon obviously too winning too good uh like just needs a new book that it that decomplexifies all of the madness that's in that book right now uh you have to have like a slan brain star master brain to play that rb to remember all your buffs um okay does this move the needle like you're basically giving up one unit maybe from the the modifications like like assuming you take three to four of these in a list you're gonna basically have to remove one unit or one reinforcement yeah the the plus 30 on the skink priest is my favorite change we finally got this a little more on pointed somewhere reasonably to where you should be been going up for a while hasn't he oh so i looked at a number of top placing lists and it was anywhere from without the cron spine with the cron spine obviously a big jump 70 to 115 points is what i was commonly saying you know maybe around 90 hundred hundred points and create i think that's about right in my mind for where serif on is right now like you know maybe that feels about right to me yeah the but the cron the pacific northwest masters the both under lizard went up 170 points 90 from serif on and 80 from cron spine i thought that was interesting that's pretty big increase yeah there you go i i think this absolutely moves the needle is my answer i think this is worth like at least two to three percentage points on their win rate honest answer i think it'll have an impact i would like to think so okay we'll see i'm skeptical okay i mean it's it's not it's not not moves that's for sure i mean you know right right it's the engine is still quite good at 285 but it's you know it is what it is okay there's some there's some sensitive serif on players out there oh that's um we we i mean i don't know if there's anything unreasonable on this show in the past few weeks no just just delete them it's fine stormcast eternals vanquishers down 15 a ventus fire strike down 40 the night relic der the night relic der down 20 yin droste down 40 carzai and crondis both down 50 uh annihilators down 20 praetors down 20 vigilors down 25 okay i know so what matters out of this will this move the needle so well it was we're certainly going to see more experimentation beth i mean i mean that's pieces that's what a you that's a unit uh a unit's like a bonus unit in your stormcast list right vince oh yeah in my list yeah i gained a bunch of points sure absolutely yeah i mean like i love the the regular shield annihilators going down to 180 is great um i think that's a great change crondis and carzai going down 50 points to 550 feels correct i could see them go a little lower but i'm but i'm happy at the current move i think they could go even a little lower um they're both still quite fragile models for their size is the issue yeah yeah like if they had it even a six up ward like kind of built-in base um i'd be more supportive of their current points but but i'm i'm happy they're down i i do find i to me carzai has stood out guys over this year as one of those models where i did i think if more good players like bents you ran carzai you did well with him yep if more good players had ran him we may have seen that he wasn't too bad at all he's very playable at 600 i do you think there's a difference between him and crondis in terms of the value like i think there's just more raw value all the sequel in carzai in my mind but like uh joel mcgrath i think or as always i get joel graham and mcgrath confused one of the joels they they did very they've been doing very well with the defensive carzai build you know where you have like the trade ores and the double yeah etc so double relic but yeah so i i think that's a bit of an oddity in like the data but yeah these are meaningful changes like all of these are are good changes okay could vanquishers be worth experimenting with at 110 have we gotten down to the point where these guys might actually be worth it i think so i'm curious your thoughts on this because well number one they have a five-up rally they have a built-in five-up rally that's quite meaningful you know just in terms of opportunity cost you don't want to leave to left to then retreat and then rally back or five whatever it might be and then three four and they do i i actually just played them today i played a unit of ten they got double activated on by three baron guard they got taken out even though i double stacked them they're on a three plus base say but it's just too many attacks right that that was okay i mean i don't mind losing 220 points to entice three baron guard i i think they're at a point level yeah where they're going to see some play i mean obviously it's going to depend on what the new season looks like and if they're going to have any value there yeah no i i i like him and i could see even a unit of 15 again for the five-up rally sure now i'll say this time matthew sweeney was banking was back in vanquishers so yeah i don't hate vanquishers if i'm being honest like i i've quite um i've i i love the model sure i mean they're a gorgeous model of the um and i was trying to find a way to fit them into my lists um and so uh i don't think that the rally is i don't know i don't know it's it's not it's not amazing right but maybe especially if you're looking at 15 here real quickly list the list i played tonight obviously prime every stormcast list i got a private prime lord relic or lord castellan because still safe stack safe stacking is valuable in stormcast and then two by five libs with cough raid experts both of those so equivalent of 15 bodies there and then 10 vanquishers plus five vigilors trying those out two fulminators 10 protectors and three birds i think in terms of a more balanced list those two fulminators should be three long strikes go thunderbolt volley long strikes thunderbolt volley five vigilors plus 10 protectors safe stacking lord castellan two by five libs 10 vanquishers in expert conquerors that's 30 bodies maybe i don't know let's see what the new battalions look like like i like that list to me that that's a stronger list than i've been playing it's interesting the the 170 for the vigilors also is getting them down to a place where they're starting to get interesting right yeah so i i don't know if this moves the needle on a win rate in any way i'm not sure about that but i will say this does start to open up some more list potential for sure like we're we're pushing a little bit on internal balance here um i think yandrosta doesn't have a play even at 280 just because she's she's just out punched by her two 300 point brethren yeah that that's the issue she doesn't have the same role that the other two have right the other two just clearly do something well the the key is is like if you include her you still need to include one of those other two huh yeah she's not lifting enough weight on her own so right i feel similar with uh avantis unfortunately i tried him out last week and he just like he doesn't get there with the damage output unless he's going after chaff or something right sure and and you don't have meaningful bonuses to cast in storm cast so like you're not really pushing out in the spells reliably and he can't even take master magic because he's unique characters yeah i i still don't think he's gonna see that much play but he's he's a little more enticing now the yeah uh let's hope that they focus on sacrosanct next i mean i would have liked obviously there they could add a long ass list of storm cast here there's sure he just extend this column all the way down here yeah yeah i don't i don't know i mean why not yeah all right beast of chaos the cockatrice up 15 points to 110 the dragon ogres up 20 to 145 and that's it is this enough of a change to take them down the point of the combined with the primal roar change is this enough to knock them off their pedestal i mean honestly like what do you know what needs to happen like no it's not because we need an errata to the herd stone to make rally be key worded to break her hmm sure so it just doesn't bring back dragon ogres and and things of that nature right if you just did break herd like most of the egregious uses of that four plus rally would be gone oh yeah i was looking at i think it was matt new yin's five oh list uh from a couple weekends ago he didn't even have any of the dragon ogres i don't even get any cockatrice in that way you know 30 zangors with the new zangors like amazing and beast of chaos yeah uh skyfires enlightened like i mean that's my list like i may have i may have a lot of zangor on the way like i mean that may happen i tend to agree i think this might shave them a percentage maybe two you know maybe two and a half three at most at most the problem is they're way out of bounds right now right they are the most out of bounds army right now there are there are last army that's hitting above 60 percent that's that's truly outside of like even the wide bounds it's no old-school dock or slinash sure sure but there are current most broken and i i just don't think we went hard enough in the paint here i really don't okay heat knights of slinash one of the bottom armies daemonettes down 20 points to 110 glutos down 30 points to 440 fiends down 20 points to 175 and slangor fiend bloods down 20 points to 110 uh let me go ahead and uh just answer the question will this change anything no next like the foundation of of three out of those four units are trash daemonettes fiends and slangor fiend bloods are trash complete and total trash they seems worse for rewrites right like i don't i i wish i could be here telling you something else but like roleless functionless units you you can't there is no right point value for them um the glutos thing is nice like glutos is fine he does stuff i'm okay with him so saving 30 points on him is cool you know i mean but he's such an investment in the army um the problem is it's like he is a good scroll so is like sig vault end of list um i like the archers i like archers i just messed around um so i mean what i'll say is this her daemonettes like they just need rend if they had rend this would be with their huge ask laws right i mean they're rend one you mean more than rend one yeah yes yeah and i know it sounds egregious to give them rent too but uh as i said many times in 40k sixes to hit make them rend four yeah right why i mean i still like the double triple tapping but um i don't know i don't know like i'll say this i like daemonettes i know you think i'm insane yeah i'm i like daemonettes as a counter-charging unit sure um uh but uh they explode to a stiff breeze yeah so that's yeah they have no absolutely no no toughness whatsoever unless you can somehow race yourself to like 18 to probability points and give them a five upward that's it right in which case there's probably better stuff you could have been doing to actually get there like have some bliss bar barters who are peppering stuff around or seekers or whatever so yeah all right i mean i think i mean i think the play has to be the bliss bar on the front and then when they get charged uh you counter charge with your daemonettes sure but maggot kin of nergal another out of bounds on the on the over performing army side let's look what we got here plus 20 to the lord of afflictions plus 20 to blowab plus 20 to orgaatz how those two weren't already 320 is a mystery to me uh like you're good like they're so strong at 300 they're so strong at 320 i don't think that'll impact anybody taking orgaatz at all uh nor blowab uh the blight lords up 30 points to 250 obviously the major offenders uh and then the single is you know plus 15 basically so okay i think i think emma said that she was like 250 points over for uh for the uh for the us case you open yeah yeah yeah amazing congrats emma on the on the 50 with your really illegal list right fine i think this is the right change the flies and the lord of afflictions and like they identified exactly the correct units these all feel like a good first start that's like they could have gone harder maybe in the end we'll need to go harder but this was the right way to start none of these feel egregious they feel correct like so one last risk on that i'm sure my initial thought was would have liked to have seen a change to drown men self some limitation on the number of flies that you can do the pregame move with sure you could go in a number of directions with that right set a cap or half the number that way you're less punishing to combined arms mixed arms variety pack list no it's good point which course i like that as well yeah i ran yeah so my list guys ashcon list had a lot of these offenders for afflictions blow up or guts two by 10 plague bears blikings two blight lords three plague drones mine stealer i might be forgetting something oh and a single blight lord i lost the single blight lord he was like he's a nice to have that seems very fair to me how good nurgle has been how good that list was yeah sure yeah that's that's fine no good point i like it yeah the what do you think about the so blikings 250 at lords 250 okay i'm having that debate in my head like it's fine blikings be cheaper they should be cheaper they damn well shouldn't be much cheaper because they're really good to no i mean there are a lot of wounds a lot of meat right still on a four up five up just like their big brother and they're obviously slower right right um but they do put out a lot more attacks uh they also i mean i think it has to do a lot with season as much as anything because yeah what i mean there is like uh blikings are really really scary if if there's a lot of one and two wound infantry out in the meta right because then they can just wish it on them and cause a lot of extra mortal wounds and that that end of combat swishing is nothing to be sneezed at right um there just hasn't been a lot of that particular thing for them to hunt around so just the inside emma if you're watching congrats she had she got what she deserved she had a mermatch she played a blightlord spamless like round four and she beat it by like two points to win him beat beat shon clark game five wow i didn't know she played shon that's awesome oh okay yeah that's great all right skaven doom wheel down 20 death master down 20 lord screech down 25 corruptor down 10 warp seer down 10 vermin tide the very bad endless spell down 20 you okay hey hey i don't hate vermin tide um because it's it's i mean it's another like it's a huge it's a huge space blocker and at 40 points it's not that's not bad um and it's pooping mortal wounds that you're immune to so i i don't hate that either because it's every movement not just when it moves if you if you move near it if you do any movement near it uh it triggers mortals yeah it can do some board control i like all these changes the doom wheel was clear too expensive the death master was clearly too expensive uh you don't make do you my favorite changer is what's that lord screech yeah sure um i uh i got a game in at my club this week with my fire slayers against a um i can all commerce uh scaven list rather than uh screech and he's uh he's uh he's tasty yeah sure so no i agree i i i don't think this uh i agree with gareth i don't think this moves the needle on their win rate much like you know maybe it's worth a half a percentage point or one or something like that like i just i i don't like like not enough of these were doing any work to begin with but um that being said i like all of this it gives me more space in my list which is good because i often did use like some of these things uh that is to say i think the warp seers just not used because of the way they changed the because the warp seers the one who's worth two master clan heroes right okay and since they changed the commander the the the master clan thing that makes it say it's unmodified like he's out i think the corruptor does have some interesting applications and at 350 he got real interesting um i agree with you on screech death master's fine the problem with him is he's over he's overshadowed by a single doom meal into my list just because it's fun and so now i can have that fit in easier so there you go okay flesh eaters the terror geist and royal zombie dragon just the things not with the guys on top just the monsters both down 20 okay yawn yeah fine i mean probably a correct points change they weren't actually outside of the bounds of the the win rate where they needed to be like they're there in the 45 to 55 barrier i think that's just like a correct points change right sure uh bone reapers who are on the downside minus 15 to the crawler minus 15 to the harvester minus 25 to the mortis guard minus 25 to morgast archai minus 20 to morgast harbingers and minus 10 to stalkers now i would point out do we just saw a blender list full of stalkers going straight ham and now they got cheaper guys this is number one on my list for the three 3.0 certainly this season i don't know for the longest time i don't understand why our players haven't ran stalkers like good on bill for running them and showing people what they can do things have been amazing for a while now like from the beginning look at that war scroll and what it can do particularly in petropecs elite it never made any sense to me and now you can make them a unit of nine and bonds of battle blah blah blah like it's it's nuts and now they got cheaper you can do like two by nine at the moment easy in the list with a bunch of other crap you know this is the biggest one of the biggest like potentially impactful changes these depending on what the new season looks like that with these changes so we are uh new book win i i do think this will have some meaningful impact on them i think obr the the biggest promise people just haven't shifted their lists yeah no i agree right people are still wanting to run a bunch of uh or tech guard or tech guard yeah all right writers deathriders should have been on this list writers are 195 yeah they could have come down like 15 as well yeah okay soul blight grave lords the army with too many syllables and too few words all right terror guys down 20 zombie dragon down 20 basically matching what happened up in flesh eater courts right uh the white king down 25 keep going uh the white king on skeletal seed down 20 uh keep going uh the blood seeker palanquin down 20 now that's a steal now that is a unit yeah that i can get behind and then nefarada down 20 amazing nefarada is good uh going down 20 that that's actually a shocking move the funny part about the blood seeker palanquin and and joe pogano credit to him for cottoning to this quite early on he used this during nashcon is the blood seeker palanquin wait am i thinking of the right one no i'm not never mind i don't care about that sorry you're you're you're thinking about the one the plus one to everything i would i forgot that there's three of these things yeah they think about the you're thinking about the coven throne i'm thinking of the coven throne oh yeah i was like because the coven throne can stutter the crons can stutter crons fine stutter shutter stutter whatever the thing is that right the other you think it's only it's one unit you just make them not fight so you just pull up the coven throne into the into the cons fine and then it just doesn't fight yeah it just sits there and does nothing and it's a completely worthwhile trade because you just like because he can't retreat right so he's just sitting there locked with this unit that he can never attack and that unit is just like okay cool what are we doing yeah i come through on this tech i play that quite against that quite a bit yeah so but that's not the blood seeker palinquin i'm sorry i forgot that i cut that they randomly created that one um yeah the blood seeker is more about buffing other vampires yeah it's i i don't think it's playable now i now i remember which one it is i don't think it's any go to 250 uh the white kings are both bad the standalone monsters fun change for having gory lists so that's cool um i mean the blood seeker um i don't know maybe not i mean if we get rid of and i think gareth is dead on here if we get rid of bounty hunters and people want graveyard to turn on into battle line then maybe one of the white king guys becomes valuable because he's the thing that makes them go battle line yeah okay the problem is right now that's a horrible drawback right but i mean again he himself doesn't really do anything his abilities are bad you would just be using him as like a throwaway general to turn that on yeah so depending on what like the next battalions look like and how battle line works and so like that it could you he could see selection sure sure i don't think this is going to move the needle around too much this feels like an internal balance when cool i have no big problems with it get blood seeker blood seeker palak one not very good no it's bad it's a very bad yeah i like the it's but it's a caster that needs to be a double caster and doesn't have any really good spells yeah is bad okay uh geats shoot is down 20 stab is down 10 mangler squake just the regular mangler not the with loon boss uh down 25 skitter strand down 20 dank hold trog boss down 20 scragwroth the loon king down 20 loon boss on mangler squakes this is the one with the guy on top uh down 20 webspinner shaman on a rack and rock spider down 20 spider riders down 10 squig herd down 20 tom i need to go get myself a new drink because this drink that i pulled out is bad so i'll be just off camera for two seconds i would like you to opine on gloom spike gets while i step away for just a quick second yeah sure um i think that uh you know so shooters and stab us we've long they've long needed to be ran in numbers and so these these reductions are are multiplicative meaning that you're you know you want to run packs of 40 and 60 stab us and so when you drop 10 you know that's 20 to 30 extra points in a list shooters uh in general weren't going to be ran in more than 20s i don't think so that's not too i mean unless you're running multiple units that don't you're gonna get points back to me the big win here are the uh the uh spider fang uh and not not just because i'm a spider fang fan but when you look at like this change combined with the war um the war party iraq rock the war party like you could easily get like 10 iraq narax in a list oh well you could almost get 10 iraq narax in a list wow and those are pie plates sure and some of those are deep striking so i mean that's a lot of monster meat like now you wouldn't do that you would do a bunch of you would do like a a mix of iraq narax um like that web spinner shaman iraq naraq is a double casters you're getting a double caster at 270 uh that has a spell that's uh that's doubling mortal wound output um for your first spiders and who can carry the the toda or no he doesn't carry the totem the um the foot hero does uh to double to five and six mortal um so i say all that to say like there's some really interesting stuff here um that i think may make this playable um in a way that it just wasn't before now i'm not going to say it's hyper competitive um but i definitely think that it's playable and that's a big step up okay very good all right that's what i'm saying and i kind of like scragorado one at 210 i could have taken him at 200 but i i agree with both of those points i will say i think that we're going to end up dangerously close here soon to where gitz becomes untenable as far as just the number of models you have on the board like it could easily it because the chute is the stavas the squig herd stuff like that like we could end up in territory where we're just spamming these ultra cheap units and that can sometimes become problematic right and that's what i'm saying like we are i agree like you're just for some of this you're just going to go with bodies yeah and i mean because you're getting uh you're getting 20 wounds of spiders for 180 points sure or 20 wounds of stavas for 140 or 20 wounds of chute is 120 yeah yeah yeah i could just like the it could end up at being in one of those like old uh like it used to be with bone splits where it was just like there there's still a super high wound army but it was like way out of whack where they were there was a point previous to the new era where they were generating like 230 wound armies 240 armies you know yeah just models and like and we are on that trend with steward iron guttsman what's up steward says my current list is 250 wounds yep yeah that's a lot okay auric war clans the killbow down 20 gut rippas down 20 to 160 the killaboss on nashtuffe down 20 the worgog prophet up 20 well deserved gobsprack down 20 the killaboss on corpse rip of ultra down 20 the snatch of boss on sludge right sludge raker beast down 25 it's not bad i like that guy actually and then swamp boss uh scumdreck derrick himself down 30 uh the savage big stab us up 20 correct change the savage bore boy maniacs up 10 fine like i don't i don't okay i have no opinion on that the worgog and the savage big stab us were correct changes yeah for where this is those were in the spammy space and yeah totally so like well the prophet is obviously a hero but i understand what you mean that the big stab is yeah um the snatch of boss on sludge raker on this and and and derrick going down the points that they did i think is a very positive change as are both the killabosses i don't think those are bad models i think the killaboss on great nashtuffe the problem with him is consistently that he's that he's that he's the worst middle hero ground of the killabosses because he's functionally doing the same thing as his little boy his little brother and his big brother but he's like the 10 wound version so he's like the worst wounds a hero can be i don't know if going to 150 makes him an all interesting he is the guy with the three up save so he's like the quote unquote toughest of them but i like i like his big brother on the rip of vulture a lot better at 220 like to me that's actually still a quite a good and i think that's actually a good value for what you get out of him uh i have seen a numb fair number of people using the kill boss on nashtuffe even at 170 because of that three they save yeah it can be a meaningful distraction type piece pretty durable you're right if only he were nine wounds would be perfect yeah just please subtract a wound right yeah i hate 10 wound heroes so much i do like him though i just in terms of list construction function toolbox tool as part of the tool set i think he is interesting but you're definitely the vulture is quite nice too especially 220 now yeah that's the one that interests me guarupas are still nothing like guarupas are still at at 160 in the current season like if we rotate out of bounty hunters they could they could have some value at 160 like we might be getting closer to the correct points value for these idiots um at their like bravery whatever uh bravery six five something like that you know five up save um until they went into a giant who then like yells at them and rolls like a nine or a ten and makes four or five of them just run away before the combat even starts uh with a bad monsters rampage and i i've said prior to this bounty hunter season when the battle 160 was the right number yep yes sands that bounty hunters that feels like the right number to me because you can obviously make these guys very scary in terms of the potential out mortal wound output for these things sure and now now you will do that because you won't have to not cast spells anymore right so like that will actually be happening yeah uh congrats to to to mike agunhammer his time has finally come i'm looking forward to the four one five oh for mike very soon this we talked about this army events and i i did i i felt like i don't know i thought you guys were a little harsh on your saying cruel boys show about the actual reality of it just seemed to me like another army were not enough top players were playing it and you actually could push results with i mean if a couple top players got into it and started dragging up the low results i'm not sure that some i'm not sure that's meaningful right that's probably fair yeah that's probably fair right i mean top players can do good with anything well and they're not playing it because it's not it's not enticing them right there's nothing in it that's that's that's beckoning them josh a theoretically whenever the next general's handbook comes out which is which we know we're in a six-month season but we don't you know i don't know december january something like that who knows so wonky dokey got a lot of nice tools cruel boys and yeah it is still a shame it's something that that that uh that piques my interest like i wonder if there might be or sneaky tricks are on a three plus would would do a lot to fix the army okay additional profiles here we go cron spine incarnate of gur up 80 points to 480 we're gonna just pause on this bad boy for a moment i won't read the whole chart is this enough i mean it's a meaningful change right is this enough and does this hurt the low performing armies that we're using him as a crutch as much as it hurts the high armies who were who were just overperforming with him so i yes is it enough yes i think it could have been a little higher but i yeah i like this point about you personally okay i mean it's a meaningful change right i i can't stand this thing dude on first principles sure of course on first principles it's just busted to me uh many levels what it what it does to the game the ecosystem good the bad and the ugly of it yeah no it to me it feels meaningful okay i think it's a good enough first my here's my statement i think it's a good enough first shot across the bow that's my answer um i don't know if it will be enough but i think it's a good start um i think that if we like probably should change some rules on it as much as anything but if we're gonna do this with just points this is as good a place as any to start can't we just battle pack it out i mean one only hopes yeah that that would be again that would be the correct way that like yes just just yeeting this thing into the sun would be correct okay hey you know you know what could fly it there launch on the soul seeker no okay go this air fun all right speaking of other updates chronometric clogs up 30 correct launch in the soul seeker up 20 still a deal at 50 still a deal at 50 at 30 change we needed he was insane he was insane at 30 at 50 at least we're starting to approximate reasonable point i mean uh 30 got me to paint him i was like yeah he's gonna he's gonna show up somewhere uh purple sun again at 90 that was a previous change that's just that's just carrying on forward and the umbral spell portal up 10 at 80 so sure all the changes one of my friends friends each and he's like that ruined all of my lists glad to hear it like the 10 point uh the 10 point mirror who's like all of my lists are gone yeah perfect the iron gutsman says gets are going to take their saved points and invest it right in cron spine industries that's not a bad point yeah you can easily find the 80 points up in this area here that's for sure yeah i mean it brings up the broader point that i would on average it's going to be easier for your bottom feeders to find the points than your top sure your top feeders so oh no you're totally good doc is yeah doc is probably you know like doc at this point will probably just pass on it i would one would hope i haven't looked at doc list i've been running the cron spine and like how meaningful is that i would think it's a fairly meaningful hit and you're pretty tight on points with doc to get that doc is already a fairly expensive army so i agree all right gentlemen let's talk FAQs real quick here but boom because we've also got has anybody ran cron spine in fleshier courts yes all at season of war held it has been running it for a little while doing it quite well multiple four ones that's really helping i would i would say i would have an ambush unit well not only does it give an ambush unit like it broadcasts out the plus one to hit yep like mm-hmm then the real charges all that would be really important to them yeah yeah yeah i've seen seen yeah many fleshier court players incorporated and i think it's i think i do think it's a decent ad okay let's talk FAQs we're not going to review all these i'm just going to review the ones that are like pseudo meaningful i guess because a lot of these are just cleanup and words and stuff so this will be 30 minutes quick you're all the time i'm going to go quicker than that here we go okay scaven when using the nalbom artifact power on train feature does the train feature become impassable no good okay good clean that up so obviously people aren't just stuck on it on trap there move on yeah fine i'll grab that voice i'm gonna get a drink you're good in a reinforced unit of storm fiends can i can i basically mix the one in three may be armed like this answer yes good that's great that was always the problem like i i had always assumed that was the case um but yeah it's good to clarify that so it's cool so you don't have to take like another useless uh tunnel digging weapon basically uh and then always three claw steps ahead um just bringing the run rule in line with the charge rule which is a shame because you used to be able to like run before when they didn't change it when they only changed charge right so your clan rats in storm vermin used to get plus two to run so you could when they still allowed it to be modified you could make one unit run right get like a an eight inch run or something like a you know your role of six plus two so you're getting an eight and then you could broadcast the eight to the other rats who would then run ten because they could stack their plus two on top of the other plus two which is funny um but nope detonated that so that's fine i don't care good all fine anything we have to say unscathed all fine changes auric war clans uh we finally got the a couple of like the one we already talked about which is the swamp kalashaman pot grot thing theme cast great the other one is we finally got the item that every logical sane human being in the world knew this was exactly how it worked the leaps of logic you had to go through to to try to argue into moving one unit across the board was so wild to me oh yeah this is like nobody who ever took symbolic logic attempted to do this this jenki where was this i thank you it's in the auric war clans on the website no so was it worded in such a way that up to half of your units may move this amount of space that's what tireless tracker said it wasn't like you may move x units or x different units it was up to half yeah which people then somehow ran the logic puzzle of okay i have 10 units half of them is five now that i so now that i have this number five i will then flip it and stack it all in one person who will then run a million miles up to the side of the board yeah yeah no uh so no you can't do that stop it please stop but can but can we still select units multiple times to receive the same month yeah that that isn't gone like yes that is still somehow there yeah that should probably also go away but for the moment that is still there it's just this ability never was phrased in such a way where you could reasonably think that's the right way to execute on it right because it wasn't a number wasn't like pick d3 units you know i'm saying yeah okay maggot kin of nergal uh can a unit still remove disease points instead of healing if it is at full health yes just there was a there was a funny way the wording was sort of done where if you read it it seemed like if you were at full health like everybody played this this way already yeah right this is just this is just solving a bit of a language inconsistency so cool all right uh okay karadran overlords uh this one tom i'm gonna read these you have to tell me if they mean anything okay here we go if an enemy karadran overlord sky vessel with a unit garrisoned in it finishes a charge move within three inches of a friendly unit and there are no other enemy units within three inches of that friendly unit could that friendly unit still receive the unleash hell command ability to shoot at the charging sky vessel or the garrisoned unit answer yes yeah so so what why this is important is because the condition on unleash hell said that like if a unit ended its charge next to you and there's not another unit within three inches of uh so because the garrisoned unit was there the argument was okay got it you you just we've automatically gotten two people into combat for free hence we shut off unleash hell okay right until ko boats hypothetically were immune to unleash hell and everything in it because the boat would go in and you'd be like oh you got you got you got another unit next to you you can unleash but didn't charge beard e boy is that beardy that is steel beard it's just following the code i guess okay question the collector command trait allows an additional hero to have an artifact if the general has an artifact if my sub faction requires the first artifact received to be the one specified in that sub faction's abilities could i give the additional artifact from collector to my general and the sub faction artifacts to the other hero answer no lost two hours of my life doing to last minute to hang out vault wars this year on this stupid question so how about it how about it tom you want to explain this one no you can go ahead and do it because you you you are i mean i i can't remember the details honestly now but it's basically it's an order of operations it's an order of operations yes and so what it does is it forces you to basically have to um chemists in order to get the thing that you want okay like uh please make a new book for these guys so we don't have any of this nonsense anymore new book win yes and make all the bubble boys good like make them the heart of the army i'm fine with that i just i just want a new book of these guys because i like this this previous book is such a abomination of rules design and it just needs to be like i can there i there are a few books that i want to see three point out more the only book i want to see three point out more than k.o right now is corn is corn like corn is the top of my list i want to see what corn looks like in the versatility you know world of three point out where things are living up to their theme that's like my number one request i just i want to see what that looks like man and then k.o is next below that because i just i i despise that tome and how it's written it's just a nightmare it was rough okay uh arcanot iron cloud flying transport change the final sentence of the second paragraph two models cannot contest objectives while garrisoning a sky vessel same thing for the frigate okay cool yeah like why why sure cuz like we have single models counting for 32 and on an objective sure right yeah like why why why do we still live in this space i can't well because you're shooting army and the whole point of the army is to suck at objectives i i it would be if you want my meta answer that's why it's because that literally the weakness of the army is meant to be you suck at objectives just like charge them then you will they will suck at objectives because there won't be bodies left i'm just telling you what i'm sure like that's the general design principle of the army good at killing bad at objectives i mean it is a very it is an army that is performing right now i was like they're at the top of the pile like the top of the the safe zone because shooting so good still good yeah and then there's a battle tactics that was cleaned up the wording didn't change functionally it's just it's just cleaning up the wording i was going to i i could see that change to kayo frigates nine clads if we had a general universal rule that any you cannot and test objectives if you're garrisoned right but everybody else who just walks in a building near an objective is still contesting or yeah i don't know or glooms fight sets up their and they put 20 dudes in the cave and they're like oh we got it we got it boss yeah absolutely yes like glooms fight can still do it obviously it's not as big a deal but lumineff still count when they're garrisoned in their shrine as does the single hero in corn when they garrison theirs or the single hero in flesh of your quartz but obviously like yes uh glooms fight is that one of the other big offenders as is anyone who walks into any building on a table right so but yeah weird i just don't understand why it's still a thing when we have single models counting for like 20 models sure i understand okay blah days of cornae uh can i carry out spell eater curse more than once in the same turn no okay like sure and then do i have to spend this this one is so funny to me do i have to spend and lose a number of blood tithe points to use a reward from the blood tithe rewards table or to summon a unit using summon demons of corn answer yes that they're like nah what edge shooting were people attempting here that they were seriously trying to read the thing that said spend your blood tithe currency to get this thing that they were like well then do i actually lose the points if i spend it like the fact that this one had to be clarified makes the quality of questions that this makes me weep for humanity like as a whole like we're not going to make it this is john connor looking at the terminator and going we're not going to make it are we and he's like it's in your nature to destroy yourselves right like this is it this is the moment where you stare down the apocalypse this is the end so here we are congratulations everybody we got there okay and that's it that's the changes for corn everything else is previous changes so many so many previous erratas okay beast of chaos uh some cleanup on the devolve spell uh so fine still fun basically doing the same thing just okay yeah it's just bringing it up into the current language structure i don't know how the four plus rally survived this a raw i i couldn't tell you uh and then obviously skyfires shaman enlightened and zangors all these things got their new profiles so you get the actual you know bray heard keyword beast of chaos keyword scrolls that are all in here and they're the same scrolls to be clear it's not like they're the same difference they're just they're just the things we saw in zeech they're just updated to match with the appropriate keywords so they can all be used correctly in the beast of chaos army so and i think they're hot so hot right now these guys are the hansels hansen hansel i don't know whatever they're good or super my joe joe crier my friend trav played him kasey open he was stacking he had a way with acolytes to get up to minus three ren on the shooting you just have them all cast their spell on one unit stacking on one okay yeah it's like oh that's he's always up to nonsense with with acolytes back in like 2017-2018 he was doing like 180 shots with kairak acolytes bless him right uh yeah and they're basically the same points by the way too as that's what they are in in in zeech so yep cool good glad they brought those all up to date everybody's got their new scrolls boc ready for that the age of the dragon ogre has ended the age of the zangor has begun yeah all right uh flesh eater courts uh i've this that the lore of madness spectral host spell again i believe it was just the wording was updated to be correct in the in the proper three-point out terminology i don't think there's any other change there you said flesh eater course yeah because it's the same it's doing the same thing you make the unit fly if they can already fly they can run in charge if it's 10 or more you can put three different friendly units i i feel like that's exactly the same thing it looked at it earlier today it was word for word the same thing i don't i don't know maybe just a miss miss on their part who knows but yep i mean that's how i remember it functioning so i'm thinking it's just a wording change all righty general's handbook uh in the battle lines drawn battle plan can you remove a unit from the battlefield in order to enter a garrison and set it up again when you leave a garrison answer yes that actually is a relevant answer because you know by the rules of what's written in that stupid battle plan that shouldn't exist uh you cannot actually go into garrisons you can't walk in buildings um obviously that's nonsense uh but you know if anybody ever played battle lines drawn i'd be concerned but thankfully no one plays that terrible uh battle plan so i guess there we go um and then another good answer that i actually think is super relevant like i like this is certainly how i read it but i do appreciate the clarification and that is do models in expert conquerors count as three models for the purposes of contesting terrain features the answer is yes like that was a needed answer because that actually wasn't i think it was a pretty easy rules as intended but it wasn't written there so good change yep a lot of to's have had uh that one over this year so that's good to get clarity absolutely um gaze of gur we just got the appropriate change yes it works how you think and it should work simplest answer right how much is the unit worth half that great cool easy easy money exactly what we wanted and then um the other changes are just things we've already talked about like the replaced scrolls with the points and the arachnara becoming uh with war party becoming battle line so good changes here i like that good good not really changes i just say is good clarifications like i these were all pretty common questions that i know to's were getting served up so i like when they do stuff like this and just here's the clear simple answer good and i like that they all work the way kind of you thought it should all right good well have you got to can a hero and reserve be picked to carry out a heroic action have we got i'm not looking at the screen with i know i did that was in the core rules i didn't actually bring up the core rules one but the answer was no so yeah because technically as far as i could tell raw you were allowed to do that even though it was weird like i looked at a multiple times never could find anything that said you couldn't but anyway it's good to get good to get clarity on that is the reason why they can't use abilities when they're not on the table yeah i mean like they're they're clearly reaching up to that you can't use abilities when you're not on the table thing right right okay so here we have like 52 different and this is this is in a bunch of all the all the everywhere where negash shows up this series of answers kind of repeats yeah right yeah so we have all these supreme lord of the undead abilities okay can negash uses supreme lord of the undead ability to reroll one or more dice on a rally or the death rattle skeletons legion ability no can he add one to the number of slain models returned when you rally or use death rattle skeletons yes can he add one to the number of slain models that are returned to a unit even if the ability used did not successfully return any slain models to the unit also yes and this is actually a big problem okay this will need to be fixed again so does that mean that when i rally i automatically refill all units because each each die rule is zero but that it no cuz he adds one to the total it's not one each individually that had already been clarified previously that's not why it's broken okay it's broken because of something that does trigger individually and triggers on a four up and on a four up you put a guy back and on a one to three you don't not in this army mr punchy fists himself mr harvester okay because if negash is around with the harvester what this now does is fail to roll the four up your skeleton pops back into existence roll the four up two skeletons pop into existence uh you can only gain models oops turtle it's just turtles all the way down yeah yeah uh oops all right can can you read this one again what was the can negash use his supreme lord of the undead ability to add one to the number of slain models that are returned to a unit even if the ability used to not successfully return any slain models to the oh wow okay and because of the timing sequence on the harvester where he checks on every death that's when it checks it fires it resolves pass fail you return the guy yep right because each one of those is an individual instance not like rally where it's roll a bunch of dice and then x come back no it's x plus one right well it also makes things like life's more more reliable for putting calf back in the units sure because normally you would only like on a d3 you need to roll two or three to put a model back now you always get at least one one possibly two when you roll but the more tech is clearly like we re-broke the the the harvester the gothers are yeah the gothers are yeah so like that will be faqed out of existence i i just i cannot doubt that for a heartbeat like because that's that was that was already fixed last time this happened when they started stacking right because remember the initial run of them you could like have two harvesters and they could just sort of infinigen skeletons back basically and they already fixed that problem and now we just oopsie oopsie-doopsie uh re-instantiated a worse version of the problem well i mean let's say you have negash a harvester no stop there is no justification for this it literally makes it impossible to kill a model well no but they have to be your harvester and three tens stop me mean that you're like you're full your list is done stop you and i know no stop this is how you know what you sound like to me somebody justifying vanguard wing well it's only liberators and they don't really do a lot of damage stop it is so obvious when certain things are beyond the pale this is one of them and full stop okay cool uh some abilities such as invocation to gosh can either heal or return slain models if i use that ability to heal will negash the supreme lord of the undead abilities will trigger no okay fine yeah of course because it's only when you return slain models and then a bunch of mere mourn banshee stuff because they're that because their wacky ability just is so wacky it's just gonna they just clarified it so that like big aoe burst abilities are non targeted it doesn't trigger anymore yeah there's three clarifications aoe stuff doesn't trigger it or well it will trigger it once not non no like non selected stuff won't it's sure if an enemy wizard cast a spell that allows them to pick several targets such as comics call and they choose multiple targets only within 12 can i roll for the spell age ability once per target unit no you roll once right right if i attempt to unbind a spell that does not specifically choose a unit to target such as a spell with an aura ability or a spell that causes all units then range of stuff from mortal wounds no that that's the answer to your question right so they can't do targetless aoe's period right yes why they can't do multi pick aoe's like a big taco spoon right yeah and then uh if i use mirror more banshee spell out your ability to just spell an end the spell do the effects of that end the spell apply before it is dispelled no so just clarifying the timing that it's like they got it they they shut it off cool cruel now the needed changes for night haunt cruel gas cruciator no longer stacks thank you about time bullshit i immediately changed all my lists yeah well obvious nonsense is obvious nonsense yeah like thank you correct i like i liked one damage more pressures i'm sure you're dumbest crap ever uh so good good change and then the spirit host was really just a rules clarification sure to make sure that they're they're working as they were clearly intended so all right that's it that's all the f aq's boys we did it we got there two o'clock i'm not asleep it's pretty good all right folks it's late here we're gonna call it a night uh i gotta go get a few hours of sleep before i get up to go to surgery uh but uh thank you all hit like if you would uh we're both these boys stayed up very late and are working hard to uh to bring a show so we never miss a wednesday they're both awesome thank you both for being so flexible thank you all for watching uh when we're when we're had to do all these crazy times over the past couple weeks and i had to be crazy ripped up on on your painkillers and stuff so thank you all very much appreciate everybody still tuning in still watching every week uh hope you all are having a wonderful day wherever you are hit like hit subscribe do all those things if you want to support the channel there is a patreon down below uh so you can do that it's focused on your hobby and review and feedback there's a merch store uh with cool warhammer weekly merch and don't forget you can put in your vote for team tom or team tyler deciding things the only way that we know how in the united states with dollars we vote with our dollars here uh and but in general thank you so much everybody for watching we really really appreciate it hope everybody has a wonderful rest of your wednesday and as always we'll see you next wednesday