 Welcome to NewsClick. Today we have with us Dr. G Srinivas, a sociologist and faculty at JNU. He is going to talk to us about the Dalit middle class. What is the Dalit middle class? I mean you have seen and you have, I mean you have noticed that the Dalit middle class has been vocal against atrocities that are happening across the country. And to talk to us, Dr. G Srinivas is with us and he will explain what actually is the Dalit middle class and how do they contribute to the Dalit movement. Welcome to NewsClick, Dr. G Srinivas. Thank you. So what exactly is the middle class in India? Or what is middle class in India? Middle class is, you know, it's a social class, more than an economic class. So there are so many, you know, interpretations, discourses about, you know, what is the middle class? So in academic understanding, when we look at the society in India, so we have middle class today coming from all class religious communities. So we have a sizeable number of individuals cutting across different class, now constituting a middle class, which is generally perceived as a class that emerged only during the colonial period. Now post-independence period, now we have a sizeable number of, you know, individuals who have achieved social and economic mobility and they constitute a middle class today. So then what is the Dalit middle class? How are they different? Dalit middle class is also similar to, you know, middle class in India, but they are unique. They are different from the middle class that came from other communities, especially because Dalits are not traditionally part of middle classes or even, you know, the dominant communities or the other caste Hindus who had social, economic and political power. So the Dalits who were generally perceived as the lowest in the caste hierarchy ranking, when they achieved social and economic mobility, they are considered as, you know, part of a new middle class, which is, again, you know, in India we have traditional old middle class as well as new middle class. Now there are many other categories, new middle class, you know, the post-globalization era, you know, we have, you know, new middle class that is emerging, which has various new characteristics like, you know, they are young, they are urban and they are technically, you know, qualified and they have, you know, a lifestyle that is different from even the middle class in general. So in that sense, the Dalits who have achieved social and economic mobility in the last four or five decades, so they largely constitute the Dalit middle class in India. So are they the beneficiaries of the reservation policy the constitution provides? Yes, that is the general understanding about the Dalit middle class. So we have many studies on the Dalit middle class, they all, most of them, most of the studies are attributing the emergence of the Dalit middle class to reservation policy. Modern education and modern occupations, see these are Dalits are, you know, they have not entered middle class just because, you know, we have achieved independence or we have reservation, but also, you know, because they have become part of the middle class only because of the new occupations that have emerged post, you know, during colonial period and also post-independence period, now we have new occupation that are emerging. So Dalits who are entering these occupations and professions, so they are considered as middle class Dalits. What ideology and identity does this Dalit middle class operate on then? Dalit middle class is considered as the champion of or forebearer, you know, runner of Dalit identity or Dalit ideology. So Dalit ideology, you know, that we understand today is inspired and shaped by, you know, Ambedkar politics, Ambedkarite politics. So during Ambedkar's lifetime and after, you know, afterwards we have Dalits who are fighting against caste inequality, caste atrocities and mobilizing the community, you know, by interpreting the past or the culture of Dalit community and also, you know, articulating politics for the future generations. So that is the, you know, Ambedkar's ideology, Ambedkar's politics are generally considered as, you know, the Dalit middle class ideology and, you know, identity politics. So is it a caste category or a class category or is it a community? That is, you know, very important to analyze in a historical sense. Dalit middle class, you know, constitute, I mean, they come from different castes, you know, that we know as schedule castes. There are, you know, numerically large schedule castes and there are also, you know, numerically small in number, you know, those small communities also. So most of them have availed, you know, the modern education and employment and therefore, you know, they have attained these income levels which are comparable with middle class. So that's how, you know, they have constituted a middle class among the Dalits. Now that itself doesn't make them Dalit middle class. So to become a Dalit middle class, the individuals who come from different communities, you know, different castes, you know, from schedule castes, they have to have an ideology, you know, they have to find a common ideology that binds them together. So that's what now we consider as Dalit ideology. So it is largely influenced by, you know, Ambedkar's vision for, you know, transformation of Indian society, equality, justice, you know, that's where the Dalit ideology, you know, that comes from. Now the middle class Dalits who are conscious about the, you know, who they are and what are the, you know, discrimination or what are the, you know, problems, the Dalits as a community in general are facing and what is their role in changing the cost, you know, cost inequality, how to eradicate these inequalities. So that common political identity or ideology, that's what actually makes them, you know, a class, middle class, Dalit middle class. Now that's where Dalits who are just, you know, with certain income levels which are comparable to middle class cannot be considered as, you know, Dalit middle class. So they have to have a political ideology as well. So that's where, again, you know, the last point that about community. Now this process of articulating, interpreting who they are, inventing a, you know, common heritage, history, culture and also envisioning a future for the Dalits as a, you know, community. So that's where the middle class Dalits are playing a vital role in shaping the Dalit consciousness, Dalit politics, interpreting, you know, the history to envisioning the future. So that's where, you know, they become, now the middle class Dalits become a community. So they're no longer just part of middle class in general. They're also not only a part of, you know, Dalit middle class, but they're also a community. So the constant interaction among the individuals who are, you know, part of this Dalit middle class and the political, you know, shared common, you know, beliefs and practices, you know, that they have, that's what actually is making them a community now. So do you think the Dalit middle class integrates into the rest of the community of the middle class or they are discriminated? Do they face discrimination? Of course, they, you know, all the empirical studies and Dalit middle class have, you know, documented this, you know, sufficiently. Middle class, being part of a middle class doesn't, you know, automatically negate the possibility of discrimination. So middle class, Dalits do face discrimination. They're also subjected to the similar, you know, the same inequalities that are existing in the society. So middle class Dalits often, you know, gain this Dalit consciousness only because of the discriminatory, you know, practices that are existing even among the middle class in general. So the, in, you know, this, I can give you two examples. This discrimination is broadly, you know, felt in workplace or in the, you know, neighborhood where they reside. So housing from housing to who are the neighbors, you know, what a social interaction they have, whether they have, you know, commensal relationships, you know, the interdine, they, you know, interact with them, you know, each other. So these are the parameters on which, you know, we can actually measure whether the middle class Dalits are fully integrated into the general middle class in India. Of course middle class Dalits are part of middle class in India, but they're also a separate class within the middle class because of these, you know, the existential reality as well as the political consciousness that, you know, they have acquired in this process. So what do you think is the contribution of the Dalit middle class for the emancipation of the Dalits? Or is there no contribution? No, there is. Without the Dalit middle class, Dalit movement, Dalit literary movement, you know, Dalit political mobilization would not have been possible. So many organizations, Dalit organizations that we see today have been either founded by these middle class Dalits or, you know, they have become the base for these organizations. So middle class, without the Dalit middle class, there is no Dalit literary movement. Or even the Dalit movement itself? Dalit movement also. So the Dalit movement has, you know, many facets. You know, it takes up various issues from inequality, you know, the general opposition to cost to, cost inequality, cost operation, marginalization, atrocities, you know, various levels, you know, Dalit movement operates. Now middle class Dalits are, you know, part of these various articulations, various mobilizations. So I mean, we have the Dalit movement, when we think of Dalit movement, we see it as a mass movement, like, you know, in general understanding of social movements, a large number of people gathering and protesting against something. But who are the organizers? Who are the, you know, people who are mobilizing these groups? I mean, this entire community. It is the middle class Dalits. Thank you, Dr. G. Srinivas for sharing your views on the Dalit middle class and their contribution for the emancipation of Dalits. Do watch and subscribe to NewsClick