 Welcome everyone. Happy Wednesday. So we will get started with speak out. So if anyone has anything to say for speak out, you can either just raise your hand or unmute yourself. So yeah, we do announcements. Would you mind doing announcements and introductions? First your mind. Oh yeah. Do we want to go around and yeah, I think that would be great. So I guess I'll just call on folks. Hi, I'm Hannah. I'm from Ward eight. Are you she her pronouns? I will pass it over to Tom. Hi, my name's Tom. I'm in Ward one. I'm a live on Nash. Why don't we do it like popcorn style? So each person pick someone else. Okay, Jonathan. Oh, that was easy. Hi, I'm Jonathan chapel so cool. I'm in Ward one steering committee. I live on North prospect street. Daniel. Hi there. I'm Dan. I also live in Ward one on chase street. I'll pass it to Carol. Hi, Daniel. I'm Carol Livingston. I live on Clark co-court which is off Colchester Avenue in Ward one and I'm also on the steering committee. Jim. Okay, I'm Jim bar. I live on chase street in the old East end. I work at UVM. I'm a DBW commissioner. And I will pass it to Sophie. I am Sophie quest and I also live on chase street in the old East end and I'll turn it to Gail. I'm a Gail shampnoy with the office of student and community relations great to see you Sophie and everyone. And I work at the UVM office of student. I'm sorry, student and community relations. And I will pass it to Jack. I live on East district city counselor. You see him pronouns and I live on college street and more date. I will pass to Zariah. Zariah she her I live on Hildre drive off of Riverside app on the ward one city counselor. And I guess I'm going to start calling on people who aren't on camera Karen you haven't gotten yet have you. Hi, thanks. Karen long I live on Henry street and have been there since I think 1983. Thank you. I'll call on Sandy, my buddy. I'll pass it to Linda or Sandy. Okay, I guess we'll go to Joe then. Hey y'all. Hi, I'm Holly. Hi, I'm Holly. He has pronouns. I live on Ward street and Ward three I've been in Burlington since 1994. And I don't know who to pass it to Hannah. Maybe you can say. Yeah, I have Glenn and Holly are the last folks. Hi, I'm Holly. There's Glenn. We live on Mansfield Avenue. Okay, great. Thank you everyone. And we'll pass it to whoever. Now any announcements. Carol or any other folks. Yeah, I think we wanted to, to let folks know that the steering committee is taking a break from organizing the NPA meetings for July and August. We'll be in September. Who knows if we'll continue doing it in this format, or if we will be in person, we'll let you know. So hopefully middle of August, we'll be making another announcement on front porch forum and asking for input for the meeting, et cetera. But we're going to take a good bit of this, of the summer as a break. Any questions about that? Please feel free. I think we're needing, we're needing a break. And again, anyone who was interested in being part of steering, or would like to just sit in on some meetings and see what that's like, we would, we would welcome to have you. It'd be great to have you just see what it's like. Thank you. Okay. And now we can go to speak out. So as I said, you can either like visibly raise your hand or wait to unmute yourself into the last person. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I just wanted to, well, we've, we've written, I know my husband wrote Jack and Zariah Jane. I don't think he included you, but I wanted to alert the neighborhood and our city counselors again. About 12 Western street. It was the single family house with an accessory. And it's a big deal. It's been several years now that we've had this in litigation. And it's coming up again. And Norm Williams has handled it for us pro bono. The city doesn't seem like, at least we haven't heard from them. I don't know if they are going to appeal to the Supreme court. But the problem is. It doesn't have a duplex. It has one parking space. It doesn't have a lot size to have been converted to a duplex. It has seven or eight students living in it every year. And it was a story for the noise. Single family house with. And a set three unit for 37 years. Mrs. Gadjou lived there. And the little unit upstairs. She lived in a studio apartment for their bookkeeper for Gadjou's dry cleaning. She lived there 28 years. And when the landlord purchased this, he switched it up and he made it more to equal. Units. And like I said, it has become a kind of a compound of this two student rental side by side that this landlord owns. There are 17 kids that live there every year. And they live in a single-family house. And they live in a single-family house. And this is the one that this is the last single family house on Western street. And our municipal plan. This is directly against it. Because the municipal set plan says the city will encourage the reversion to single occupying single family occupancy. Of properties, especially in areas within high concentrations of student rental housing, the city will not hold it. So this has just gone on and on. And I would really like to see the city. Hold. Stand by our zoning and try to. Win this. I think we have a really good chance. We won already once with the Supreme court. And it's really disappointing to me that the city does not hold its zoning. I think we're going to move on from the first meeting. When we get the meeting. So we won't have to go to the board accountable and just go by the rule. Or you guys have to take this to the ordinance committee. And change the rules because it's very frustrating that they're not being enforced. Thank you. Does anyone else have anything for speak out? Okay. The one thing I'll mention is I am the community development concluded our like review of the 2021 applications and so I wanted to just give you all a brief overview. It was a really unique year but also exciting and as all of the like grant requests that were given we were able to fund them all completely or at least like we recommended funding them all completely just because of like the amounts worked out. So on the public service applications the total requested was $150,500 and the grant funds available were the exact same amount and our like group recommended funding those fully and the same thing with the development applications the total requested were $232,000 and the grant funds available were the exact same as well. So if anyone has any questions about that feel free to shoot me an email or call me and I'm happy to talk through it all but that's kind of the review on all of that. Last call for speak out. Hannah could you put the link to the report in for Tom to put in the minutes? Yeah I can send that over. Thanks. Okay so moving on is we're gonna get a UVM update from Gail. So thank you Gail for being here. Thank you very much. I first want to say how grateful I am to everyone to neighbors to landlords to the city officials and staff and to the institutions all of our on and off campus partners. For all that we went through during this pandemic I have appreciated the just people who have told us that you know students were doing the right thing in the community but also letting us know when the green and gold promise wasn't being followed or there were quality of life issues and I followed up with everything that was sent to my office so thank you for keeping connected during this time and I know we had some pretty big challenges with the North Beach and just to let people know that we've met twice now with the Burlington high school and Burlington school department and the parks department and UVM police services and Burlington police department and we've added some students to that group. We met twice and we're going to continue to meet so that we can address those first warm days of the spring and not have a repeat of what had happened this past spring. Also there were issues on Hickok and Isham and Loomis at the end of the academic year and we are in contact with the Burlington police department to identify any of our students who are involved and again the Office of Student Conduct, the Center for Student Conduct will be involved with that. We're going to do a lot more outreach in the next two weeks in that neighborhood talking to people and if we're already checked in with some of the neighbors on Hickok Place and I feel very unfortunate what happened and during just the stress of all that and the impact that it's had so we are addressing that. Also want to say that the community coalition was virtual this year and we had really good attendance. We had a lot of good energy and a lot of good support coming out of that group so I've appreciated everybody's involvement and we also gave out some neighborhood grants and so working with the old east and neighborhood coalition and I see Jim and Sophie here and I know usually Dave and Pat come to these meetings as well. We were able to help support Winter Lude so thank you for bringing comfort to so many residents during the winter during a difficult time and we want to continue that partnership in the future with that group and we are also using some neighborhood grants and some grant money that we got from the New England Seeds Grant to do a lot of work on Isham and Hickok according to what neighbors want. Some more want planter boxes, they want vegetables, flowers and so we have a landlord donated community garden on Isham Street and we'll be doing that work starting now. We wish we could have done more all along but because of COVID it was really difficult but we did a lot of events to bring community together so we had almost 100% participation in our pumpkin decorating contest everybody put the pumpkins out we did a snow person contest we have done flyers around issues like backyard fires and containers and when people were mixing compost with their recycling and we got really good responses I find that students do pay attention to flyers on their mailboxes and afterwards I checked in with the city staff and they said those problems have been eradicated so we're finding that during the pandemic there's things that we learned among the challenges that we want to bring forward and I wanted to let you know that last summer we did have a large percentage of our students stay in in the in Burlington for a lot of good reasons that they share with us in our survey this summer we're finding we again have a lot of students that are staying and so in this survey which is usually what we do is our spring move out survey we try to find out when students are moving out in May so that we can plan our spring move out project events this year we did two one on luma street and one on buell unfortunately with COVID we could only make it a trash event and not the recycling because we couldn't have people gather but I could tell you it was a lot more came in than in another year because we didn't charge for trash this year next year we're going to go back to both trash and recycling and get back into into how we used to do the event with with the information about this summer we had 492 responses to our survey for off-campus students and 66 percent of them are renting in burlington for the summer and then we asked are they living in the same rental and 49 percent said yes and the reasons why affordable rent good location good landlord convenience good living situation and it felt really good to read those responses I think the convenience part of something we we have talked to code enforcement and and bill ward and patty women about is that difficulty where you have to leave your apartment three or four days before you can get into your new apartment so people don't know where to store stuff some landlords are kind enough to let them store the big furniture others scramble summer you know trying to find places friends with couches that they could stay with what we don't want to see happen is because the convenience if they're in a bad landlord situation they choose to stay there because of that so we're going to be working really hard on that issue and and i'm so appreciative of all the support that code enforcement has given around some of these some of these issues including all their support for spring move out we also asked if students were planning to sublet 91 percent are not subletting so that's something also that's interesting to us used to be a lot more subletting in the past we asked if they had summer employment and the good news is that 75 percent of the respondents do have summer employment and of that 68 percent have it in burlington so i know when i've been out and about restaurants and other places a lot of jobs are opening up a lot of students are finally finding that they can have employment that's been a real stress for them we found huge percentage of them rent food and utilities insecure throughout the pandemic and offered a lot of resources support including dropping food off door to door to students i think we did four runs of that and also all the incredible local and national and federal and uvm and state resources were enormously helpful cities resource and recovery team and site was phenomenal and i thank them for all the support that they gave and then we had 21 percent have internships and a back group 57 percent of them have internships in burlington so i know last summer was rough on a lot of residents some i had a lot of calls about the green and gold promise quality of life issues a lot of people were out of work were home a lot of our students were still in the community i think the difference this summer is as i see from our data a lot of students will be here a lot of them will be in will be working and have internships and we will continue as an office to respond to communications that we get from neighbors and from students about issues that come up for them we've been working really well with landlords when i've contacted landlords when there have been issues they they uh we gave them flyers and posters to put up and about COVID regulations and they and they put them up they talked to their tenants i think um we had a really really good sense that the whole community was pulling together and we hope that those relationships we built and the way that we were able to be effective in addressing some of the issues is something that again we can bring forward so that's my presentation i know that um we will be opening for the fall and i know there may be lots of questions about that so i think the the ward one eight npa sent out a link so that you can keep up with what's going on at uvm and at some point in time maybe your september meeting have someone come in and give an update but certainly as new information comes in if you check that website and if you have any questions there's there'll be contact people there and i know joe spidella and myself would be happy to and also lisa kingsbury to answer any questions that you have and if we're not the right resource because we're not making the decisions around the fall opening we will get you to the right resource okay great um i see tom you have your hand raised yeah gal could you send me a link to the webpage you just talked about yes thank you very much anyone have any questions for gail can i just thank you so much for your work sorry jack thanks joe was also trying to get in so yeah i just wanted to oh thanks thanks jack um i just wanted to add you know that gail and her office has just done an amazing job this year and really um responded to you know so many requests um in a really challenging year i just wanted to appreciate the work that they've done um but also the work that code enforcement has done as gail had said um and our partners in the city and on the city council so just really appreciate all of that no i just i also yeah i just wanted to appreciate gail your your really great work and diligence and it's very clear i think to all of us that it's not just a job for you your your heart is in it and you're you care so much about the community so we really appreciate that and also the the community coalition meetings i think have been really really great and would encourage folks on this call and anyone who watches this to try to attend community coalition um i don't know if the dates are posted for future meetings but they're typically have been on fridays and just bringing together students and code enforcement and community members um we've had some really interesting and great um conversations and working groups and ideas um that have flowed through that group so it's a really great space thank you jack and um we usually wait till the new co-chair has their academic schedule because they're from the student government association and then we'll have the meeting dates but i'm happy to send them out i appreciate that would be great that would be great i'm wondering you know as we think about september and october if if it makes sense for for that crew to think about presenting to the um to the npa because i think we'd really we'd really love to hear you know what their thinking is and their plans are so it's just another avenue for them to to share their information excellent and if you want to just be on my mailing list i send out notes uh if you can't make meetings because i know friday afternoon we choose that because it's the one the students can are most able to do the notes will at least let you know what we're up to okay great thank you okay great thank you gail um now we are moving on to the city council update so whoever wants to go first um feel free i think i was asked to give a public safety update so it may make sense if i are um if that's okay with jack and jane and along those lines oh it could somebody allow me to screen share because i have a presentation if not that's that's also okay it's made you cohost so you should be up a screen share thank you so much great so um this is a presentation that i gave um just to give at city council an update that's not going to do trying to share trying to present um so i'm just going to give it here again and then i added a few things at the end to walk through what we what is happening beyond the joint committee um i'm clearly most familiar with what the joint committee has been doing just because i'm the chair of the joint committee um but happy to do some other updates at the end as well and this shouldn't take more than uh five to seven minutes and so just so folks know the joint committee was a committee that was formed by the racial justice resolution last June um and we've had varying members um coming through it's composed of the city council's public safety committee as well as the police commission and so as people have left those committees and commissions um we've gotten new members and lost members and the timeline was the committee was created in June on June 29th with a resolution the racial justice resolution um and just to walk through kind of what the committee has done is we didn't meet until august 14th because we needed a staff person um we approved so our goal really was to um have a community input process for public safety and what the vision around that is and should be as well as an assessment of the burlington police department so our goal was to have two different rfps for that and then we also discussed some other topics which we'll talk about a little bit later and so we prioritized the community input rfp because we thought that one should have formed the bpd assessment so we finalized that rfp end of august um in september we started drafting the second rfp which is sorry a request for proposals so that's kind of the announcement that you put out asking consultants to um engage in this work september 24th the city posted the first rfp again that's the community facilitator one october 22nd we selected to to leave the consultants out of three different consulting firms to move forward with due diligence october 26th we approved them as the consultants um on november 5th we approved the second rfp for posting on december 3rd we had our first call with to leave the consultants but we didn't have a contract with them yet so we can actually ask them to do any work um and then in december 22nd we selected cna for due diligence to fulfill that second that second request for proposals and then in 2021 um we did a reference check for cna and january 15th we still didn't have a contract with stelitha which i think you'll notice we approved them october 26th so it had been kind of a longer slower process um but we kicked off with them february 1st um and then as an aside this isn't quite just helping with the time a little bit february 9th the city council approves 10 new community service officers and one new csl so that's upside of the joint committee um february 22nd um we had another check in with tolitha and they over the rest of that week had their first meetings with organizations um march 15th we still have the cna um contract because there was a debate over who would manage it that had been kind of ongoing in the background march 30th that was the first tolitha town hall april 27th was the second we kicked off with cna on april 8th and then early may i think it was may 10th maybe may 9th the tolitha survey launched and they just closed it earlier this week so where we are now which i haven't completely updated is tolitha just closed the survey um i think last week for public safety visioning and cna is currently um i think finalizing conducting interviews and are kind of at the same time also doing analysis of what that means and doing data requests in the burlington police department analyzing that as well and so just to remember that the tolitha scope of work um was to answer a key question which was how to build a healthy and safe community and what institutions we need to reach that goal they designed a feedback mechanism which is both um workshops and surveys and they facilitated that and then their reporting will be happening um over the month of june and they're supposed to draft a strategy for effective community input um to transition to a different public safety model and this is kind of the whole tolitha timeline compact their report out the first report out is supposed to be june 23rd at the joint committee meeting at 5 30 and then they will have a written report by the end of june which i believe is when their contract ends um for cna um their scope of work was to create a roadmap that supports methodical transition to new innovative public safety apparatus that delivers valued community services and to examine and reevaluate reevaluate public safety needs in burlington and reassess the role of bpd and promoting public safety and so their key question was how does what the community desires compare with who what where and how bpd is providing public safety um reevaluate the public safety needs and reexamine the role of bpd and then the end result is supposed to be a menu of city services to add or enhance analysis of the benefits and barriers of those alternatives and a framework for decision making for the community and the council and the mayor to move forward with and the timeline is here um with us currently being in data collection and their final report out i believe is supposed to be a late summer but i'm not a hundred percent sure of the exact date um other items taken up by the committee was review of the oversight model and the equitable sharing program we didn't make it very far and i mean the review of oversight model was then passed to the police commission and ultimately that ended up not going through the council as most of you know um in the equitable sharing program we just haven't really made many inroads not least because it's really hard to get data um on what the equitable sharing what has actually been shared and um how much and with whom and when um other public safety items sorry i just take notes for myself that i'm aware of is the SRO task force um which was composed of students barlington school department staff and principals uh cjc representative myself we completed our work um early this year and published a report which i think many of you have probably seen or skimmed um we just started meeting again this month and will continue to meet on a monthly basis going forward um to to make sure that the recommendations that were in the report are put into action and those aren't public meetings so um if somebody was hoping to join them um we do have notes that i'm willing to share but um it's not we're not a public group um uh i think you all there was enough news about this but kyle dotson left as director of police transformation um with not i think the hope for report um that we were hoping in terms of potentially having some advice on changes may call is doing a series of trainings for police commissioners and any city counselors who want to join and the public isn't invited as well and may calls a great institution that does a lot of work on um policing and alternatives and um policies so i think if you're interested in these topics i think it's uh that those trainings are going to be um really informative um there is a public safety meeting so that's just the three people in the city council not the joint committee which has those police commissioners as well next thursday we're going to talk about two community service liaison positions two additional outside of the police department um and what those positions should be doing so if you have input or thoughts on that feel free to share that with us and then the last thing is is if for folks who remember the community oversight um resolution that was vetoed by the mayor um earlier this year there's a community process to have a have a similar oversight model um that on the ballot through petition and so um that is kind of ongoing and they have a website i think they've made some good changes to to the language that they that was in the previous resolution so sorry i think that was longer than i said it would be but that is everything i know about public safety um small update i think i will be leaving the public safety committee once um so we'll talk about another council we'll talk about that um but once we have the ward three election so i hopefully will not be the face of public safety um anymore in a few months i'm happy to answer any questions yeah do we want to do questions for Zariah now and then we'll go to the other councilors is everyone okay with that okay uh tom your hand is raised yeah Zariah uh can i get a copy of your presentation absolutely it should also be on the city website but i can make sure the npa their own okay powerpoint thank you does anyone else have questions for Zariah okay seeing none um jane or jack whoever wants to go i don't mind hopping in uh thanks Zariah for that presentation i know you've had to do it a few times um so the last two meetings i had mentioned that i my goal as a city councilor was to get more more funding um for npa is one of many goals um and luckily it seems like we actually might have locked in 500 extra dollars per npa in the next year um on top of the normally allocated budget so i'm kind of happy about that um obviously we always want more but i think that's a good place to start better than nothing um let's see what else uh so the council voted to authorize bed to um raise their rates 7.5 percent for the fiscal year of 2022 um this was in the news is pretty heavily covered but um this is like the first rate increase in like 12 years um they do have some low income assistance programs kind of rolling out and they're working through some of those details um but yeah i have some more information too if folks want that um and then on another front um brian pine the word the word 3c is open um because brian pine councilor pine moved into the cdo director position um that is something that obviously he's very passionate about and we're really happy for him but so just i'm sure we all kind of know that that that happened but i just want to make sure if anybody on this call wasn't aware of that we now have 11 counselors until the special election in august and let's see what else oh on june 19th on saturday june 10th there will be our first ever celebration as a city um for june 10th and it'll be located at like several locations so like city hall park the echo center down at the water um Fletcher free library um and a lot more information about it is at juneteambtv.org so that's something to keep in mind because that's our our first ever one so we just want to put that on folks's radar and yeah i do have some dates for committee stuff um but they're also on committees that i believe have already been mentioned or or one that jack chairs so i'll just hand it over to him at this point thank you great thanks jane um yeah a couple other things to hit so yeah we've the council has had two meetings since the npa matt um so at the the may meeting the late may meeting um couple other things we did we unanimously passed a resolution around youth on boards and commissions um this has been an effort for a while in the city to have youth representatives folks under 18 serving on our boards and commissions to really add that voice and that perspective and it has been you know it's had mixed success and i think we want to kind of double down on it and try to make sure that every board has that voice and that um there's a mentor as well so it's not just throwing a high school or on the board and kind of just having them try to fend for themselves but also pairing them up with someone and so trying to expand that program make it more successful more robust um and we also made the final approval of the water the restructuring of water rates in burlington we this npa has gotten a couple presentations on that i think the the department did a really great job they spent um a long time did a lot of outreach and input worked really hard to try to create a more equitable system and i think it's a huge step forward um to create you know income sensitivity um in in the rate system and more fairness in how we charge for for water um and that well and then in our last meeting we did also discuss um redistricting which when the census data comes back it's it's very likely we definitely expect that we'll need to redistrict um for this for the wards um and that and it's not just a matter of shifting geographically what the boundaries of each ward is it could also include changing the structure which has happened before the structure we have now where there's ward counselors and district counselors is is pretty new um and i think there's a sense of a lot of counselors that it's maybe not the best system to have that sort of overlapping constituencies and have some counselors with twice as many constituencies others so um there could be um yeah we'll be working on this but it could be a more fundamental restructuring of kind of the city council could even potentially change the number of counselors for example um but this was just an early presentation about it we didn't take any action at this point um and then at our meeting on Monday night um i had a resolution around this i-89 uh re-envision i-89 corridor study that the regional planning commission has been working on for over a year and the city council voted 10 to 1 to pass this resolution to really tell the regional planning commission that we want to see them focusing this really really large study on reducing vehicle miles traveled rather than exploring expansion of car infrastructure and um and uh yeah like the idea of adding a new interchange and upgrading and improving interchanges we'd rather the council would rather see that money go towards how can we actually reduce vehicles miles traveled um and create a more sustainable and equitable and affordable transportation system so that was um a resolution that we passed um another one that we passed on Monday was we did remove the mask mandate for retail establishments um i know the state had already removed that but burlington still had not um but now as of Monday we have so it's up to individual businesses whether or not they want to require masks the city is no longer requiring that for vaccinated people specifically just to be very clear about that um it masks are not required for vaccinated people unless obviously that business itself does so um i guess the one um two other things i'll mention are three i guess so the budget you know we have to pass a budget by the end of June that's been a big focus there's been a ton of meetings every single department in the city has presented at this point to the council and taking questions the mayor is about to submit his budget um and that should happen tomorrow and the council will start you know digging into that on Monday and have the opportunity to either we could pass it on Monday we could make amendments we could postpone action we could reject it i guess theoretically um so um more to come on that but that's a big that's going to be a big focus this month for the council um and boards and commissions is another thing that the council does every June is we appoint people to the city's boards and commissions and i'm on the subcommittee that's been working on that we have a slate of candidates that um we're looking to you know appoint to these boards that will go to the full city council for a vote on Monday and shout out to Dan who's on the call who this was approved to be on the public works commission um which jim bar has has been on as well who maybe dropped off but um is yeah so they'll they'll both be representing you know ward one in the city as a whole on the public works commission um i think yeah the last thing i'll mention is because jane alluded to this too jane and i are on the transportation energy and utilities committee and we've put together a special meeting next Tuesday regarding solar in burlington rooftop solar and trying to make it easier for people in burlington to get rooftop solar because it's been a challenge for many folks due to some of the local requirements around that we this is something we're trying to do in that committee is have regular special meetings on certain topics so we had one last month regarding pedestrian safety and think a couple of y'all reached out that we're sorry to miss it and i apologize for not you know more heavily publicizing it but um yeah this this one's coming up on on tuesday night over zoom i believe it's at five p.m um i can double check that but yeah it's at five so i will leave it there thanks and i have one update that's not public safety um which is just that with the end of the legislative session um i think most people probably voted on the um charter changes that were on the ballot last um march the march november i remember um and the legislature did not take up the best i think they only took up one of the charter changes so um they are not past this session um they are also seemingly more controversial than in the legislature than the 60 plus percent passage would have made us think and so um i think a big part of when the legislature comes up again um our role or i know at least my role will be um also advocating for some of those charter changes and working with some of the legislatures to try to um make sure that the charter changes we pass get passed by the legislature so um i just wanted folks to be aware of that so if you contact your representatives and and senators and let them know that that's an important thing for folks if it is an important thing for folks definitely and one other quick note is that we just heard from max tracy the city council president that it's pretty likely that we're going to go back in person for council starting in july so we'll be reopening con con toys auditorium on church street and i'm hoping that it'll still just be it'll still be just as easy to join remotely but i also think it is exciting to be able to um get back together in real life as well does anyone have any questions for the counselors i see tom your hand is raised yeah uh jack can i get a pointer to the um rooftop solar meeting next tuesday i'm assuming it's a zoom meeting it is i don't know that the link is up yet um but i will is this something i should just look at the the city council page and find um there's a particular page for that committee which is where it'll be so i will go ahead and um just post the link to that web page and once that's where this will live um that's where all the agendas are posted and they're always posted three days ahead of the meeting so you'll see the agenda and materials and the link go up on friday on this website so i can go ahead and just share the link to that website if i do it in the q and a does that or should i just email you tom just email me okay all right great oh and i have one other quick question and that's um uh you you talked about restructuring city council potentially um is it your opinion that we we the burlington would be better off with more city counselors or fewer city counselors um yeah and if the others want to give their thoughts too um i so i've been working with karen paul um on one of the you know the ward six city counselor on this and the npa's will actually have a role i should have mentioned that the way that the resolution is drafted the npa's would each elect somebody to or choose somebody to basically serve on a committee that's going to take a look at these issues tom and and take a look at what direction that we should go my personal opinion i think the numbers is pretty good um in terms of 12 my personal preference would be to do just 12 12 wards and have counselors have smaller constituencies and have people know you know this is your one counselor and i think it would make it a lot easier for us to be more responsive if we had a smaller constituency and also that it didn't overlap with others so that's my personal preference but that being said you know we want to set up a process and let this be a kind of community driven effort so that we end up somewhere that you know folks can feel good about and it's we want to try to achieve for the most part consensus among the city council on a direction forward is the hope with this okay thanks sandy i see your hand is raised hi can you hear me okay yes okay a couple of quick things jack when you do the solar um i don't know if everybody knows but i'm in real estate i'm actually working with a house right now that has solar and there are a lot of little hoops and shall we say pitfalls um i would definitely involve real estate attorneys um because eventually properties do sell and there's you know every company's got different kinds of leases but it's not a slam dunk even when the numbers look good for saving on the electric bill um the lease this lady has is 30 pages long um you need to be a lawyer just to read the lease and they had her just sign it so just you know and a lot of different companies but just a note of caution in my business when a house has solar panels the real estate attorneys roll their eyes backwards um there's just a lot of documents and a lot of things that need to be filed and they're not in public records etc etc um there was a we had a meeting for about an hour the other day and it was a real eye opener to what the lawyers have to deal with um to sell a property so just a heads up on that great and a quick thing jack maybe you know is there anyone else but i see we got a notice here about the 10 foot wide blacktop driveway that's going to go on the east side of mansfield ab from colchester ab all the way down and then just dead end at north street um it'll cross over where moda christie school is it'll cross in front of the fire department um i don't like to understand the logic of it i see if you want to have some traffic coming and you want to have the intersection but have a 10 foot wide blacktop driveway basically i'll call it a driveway um it will go it will run the length of mansfield ab it really doesn't make sense to me but maybe i'm missing the big picture yeah i think that's i i don't think we have anyone from dpw um just looking around but if anyone wants to weigh in on that um i think that's been on dpw's sort of list for many years um and it's now kind of coming to completion and i believe one of the main drive you know it's meant to be a side path for pedestrians and um you know folks of all differing abilities especially with um with the senior facility on the end of mansfield and just trying to create safe and wide walkway and runway for folks jogging and all of that um so i think it was meant to be sort of a wider sidewalk type of thing to accommodate you know the movement along there but i'm not i wasn't super involved in in it well the reality is there is a nice bike path on the side you know on the road there's room for the bikes now um a lot of us walk and we all walk on the side where the houses are especially in the evening because it's lighter um so walking on the side that's darker generally you know isn't as popular there is a walkway there now not in great shape but it is a black top one but to create i mean there are lots of things that have been on the books for you know 50 years um and eventually we come to realize times of change and it doesn't make sense to move forward with this and i think if you folks send somebody can sort of slow the train down here and rethink it would make a lot of sense just my two cents great if you could email me sandy both with anyone that you think we should invite to this um solar meeting on tuesday um and as well as with with that i can follow up on both of those things i'm happy to do that thank you and jason i bet has thoughts on the side path project uh yeah so if you can hear me uh i was involved with this process and uh when they were doing the study and some of the stuff before that and the idea is that it's a extension of the coal chester have side path the riverside have side path the eventual one that's going to go in down to the interval and it's an off-road facility for users of all abilities for all seasons um you know the bike lane may seem nice on the road for an advanced user but if you have your daughter in a trailer behind you it feels less than safe with no protection and in the winter time that plane is often just covered in snow and you have to ride in the road and so this is just the same thing as as the waterfront everything else providing an all-use facility there and it's actually a great location for it because of the number of school children there the number of seniors that live at the facility there there's some other schools in the area and it also connects to the old north end greenway which is a nice path there so it's really about providing connectivity and a safe off-street passage for everyone not everyone feels safe um being in the road and if i try to be on the sidewalk and it's only five feet wide uh i often have a conflict with someone who's trying to walk or someone trying to bike the other way um but you can feel free to reach out to me on the side but i believe um dpw is uh looking to do that this year so and it's uh it's actually a very horrible condition right now and numerous people have been injured um trying to walk on it and it impacts zero right away so i guess one of the concerns jason is it ends right at the private roadway that comes out of makali square there um yeah i understand that that's what that's not street you can't widen north street so it's like a dead end little roadway not not necessarily because people from the senior center can go the opposite direction on there up to the colchester ab side path and continue from there and uh the idea is also to have an on-street facility for maybe one block and then on prospect street connect that down to riverside ab so there's that in the planning in the works long term so the idea is not to just dead end it there that's you know how all the projects work around here that small section at its time it's a little harder to get everything connected up but it's for eventual connectivity around that entire super block there of riverside ab prospect colchester to provide an off-street facility and i take it it won't cover up the rain garden that just all got put in there um i don't think so but i can't speak to the exact width and specifications there but i'm you know uh that's uh a little bit of a concern but the amount of safety of other users is uh really uh a big concern and i also work on the walk bike council so i'm very familiar with this issue and feel free to contact me offline okay i see airhards hand is up hi uh thanks um so uh i i had to check out for a couple minutes because i got a phone call but i had a question hopefully you haven't covered this um jack you were talking about the census the preliminary numbers and possibly uh you know redistricting and even restructuring the city council was there any discussion or any information that you received around um how the legislative um districts might get uh realigned as a result of the preliminary census numbers um i i assume we're gaining some in population um so uh might it be that at some point um burlington can be kind of whole instead of sharing a portion of burlington with the wanuski district i don't have any in advance intel on that but that is also simultaneously that that redistricting will also be happening but i don't have any like intel on where it's had that great thanks just for background usually that happens first it'll probably happen next winter i don't know what your what the city council schedule is for uh redistricting but um you know if history is any indication probably you'll be dealing with the legislative districts uh and redistricting uh those first yeah we're looking to we're looking to accelerate the process compared to last time last time it it dragged out for you know four or five years we we're looking to get something on the ballot actually for march um hopefully so that um yeah the voters could weigh in at that point but yeah we don't actually have the census data yet from the federal government so right now we're just trying to set up the process and you may have missed it air hard but the npa's are going to play a role in the process at least how the resolution is drafted right now great that's that's great yeah each npa would select someone to to work through this it was messy the last time because i mean it was very controversial because of the restructure the comprehensive restructuring and not everybody was a fan of how it ended up right that's part of the motivation to get ahead of this and start looking at it i think there's things that we can do a lot better this time thank you i think the last question will go to jonathan thanks hannah uh this question for jane um jane thank you very much for your efforts to um support the npa's there's so much so much work i think the npa's can do that we're not doing right now um one of one of our problems and this may just be a ward one aid problem but we struggle in how the policy says we're supposed to spend the money and it seems to be quite restrictive and it seems to be um and and this may just be a ward one aid thing and other boards may be going off and doing things that we should be doing but the focus is is fairly consistently in the wording on um outreach for the npa and that's fine and that's good but um it seems like we could be as a community we can do more than just outreach for the npa um and and you know we can be creative about it i suppose right but i'm just wondering whether that's something that could be looked into too is is just uh expanding the the possibilities that that we could use money we'd spend more money if we if we felt like we were actually following policy by spending it that way right right absolutely well that yeah that is something i actually am looking into because i realize that it is mostly about outreach and like you can get creative in like what that outreach looks like right so it's like well what forms of it but i understand what you mean like could it be separate events but like a similar group of people or is it like some other type of like special issue that we all want to talk about at a different time or something like that um and just kind of like being able to have those types of functionalities and that flexibility and be able to fund that um other than outreach i mean this is this is a good setting to kind of ask this like other than outreach what what more do you envision doing because the more i know like what this group wants to accomplish the more we can try and like change that policy because i mean things can be changed for sure um i just i just have to know what it's going to be changed to and it's good to be specific when you really know something specific what you want to like move into that direction so is is there anything that's on your mind or is this something we can take offline and make a list of things on top of outreach yeah probably we should make a list i we know one thing that pops to mind and this this was a very early conversation that i had on the subject with with sophie and that was about um doing something about the little triangle in the old east bend you know turning that into a more of a park it's a tiny little place but that doesn't seem to be fitting with what you know that that would be a wonderful thing to do for the community it doesn't seem to be fitting in what the what the cito policy says we're supposed to spend the money on but that's just an example i think other places there's grants that other npa's may be with what we're supposed to spend the money on and so it's that sort of thing it's just kind of opening up the possibility that it's support for the community it's not necessarily outreach for the npa right right because i yeah i realize that um no that makes total sense jonathan i will i'll look into that then and try and get back to you like shortly on that i know we're not meeting as a group for the next two months but i can definitely reach out to to kind of the steering committee and everybody on on what that language actually is and why and then can see where we have that wiggle room because i i'm sure we do it's just it's like being clear on what we want to change it to um but that's what we're all here for so thank you for bringing that up that's thank you thank you yeah of course yeah and the last thing i'll add on that front like i think expanding it to be community building based as well because like we've talked about it before where like our npa isn't the most comfortable place for every single person and as much outreach as you do it's not i feel like it's just not always a space that everyone feels comfortable in and so being able to provide funding to either like affinity spaces to like in order for us to help them build that community out with while having the understanding that this primarily white space is not super comfortable for everyone like i think that would even make it a little easier to spend the funds and also more productive so then we're not like scrambling at the end to be like okay how many more lawn signs can we buy like how many things like that yeah like it's not productive to our entire community um but yeah and that was a good point to bring up jonathan yeah no that i completely agree with that and i think yeah but this should be i just i wanted to get more money to kind of just make sure that we're able to expand in the next year if we can um but that makes so much sense to like have specific ways in which we can kind of have more fun with like the npa and be more realistic for for what folks kind of can't do because obviously i mean like we all kind of see the same group every month right so we all kind of know where we're comfortable here but most people are not here so um just kind of making sure that we are developing those kind of resources for folks and that's a great point hannah so we shall talk more about that thank you okay now we're going to move on to the riverside micro home project um the school commissioners are not on tonight that's why they didn't get their updates but lori and mark i believe you're both up good evening i'm lori smith for some reason my video is not turning on right now but it was a minute ago so hey just see my name um i'm here with mark finari and uh steve kridel from gba architecture i do have a set of slides to share if um i can do screen sharing to give an update on what's gone on over the last six or eight months since we were last here um in updating and improving the 237 riverside project you should be able to share your screen okay so here we go and let me see if i can take it to the full screen mode so this is a a sketch rendering of the project and um what is being considered is um a 48 approximately 48 unit micro housing project on riverside avenue just to the west of the car wash between the car wash and the sewage treatment plant um the initial program that we presented uh last year was for almost 68 units subsequently we've reduced it to make it more scale appropriate even though 68 units are allowed by the zoning um the goal is to create a fossil-free carbon neutral uh highly efficient workforce housing project um that is in transportation quarter directly between winewski and burlington um there'll be 48 350 square foot um efficiency apartments five 645 square foot um units with a with a separate bedroom a street level a lot lobbies serving the residential levels above 45 parking spaces bicycle storage community kitchen laundry um with a connection to the backspace which is a beautiful um connection to the salmon hull and the winewski river and potentially a recreational uh or path headed up to uvm um we've reduced the overall square footage of the project by almost 25 percent and um the idea is to provide high quality um reasonably affordable housing for uh single folks and working young working professionals in the community which is seems to be a pretty high need um i'll go through the slides and am open to any questions as we go along this map shows the site on riverside avenue or orienting it to burlington this is a closer view of it and then we'll move into floor plans site plan floor plans of the project this is the site with the car wash here sewage treatment plant this is 237 riverside avenue and the adjoining property that's owned by lark and will be incorporated into this project this is a schematic view of the building which is really broken up into three separate buildings to make it uh feel like small residential rather than a big massive building with canyons or corridors between each of the buildings that are public spaces that provide view corridor back towards the river this is the first ground floor parking layout um first floor units you can see there are common areas between access down to the backyard and the very private sort of courtyard area that goes down to the river third floor spaces and then the fourth floor spaces that are larger loft departments with um um loft bedrooms above the living spaces and this is a view of the lofts um there will be solar on site producing if not all very close to all the energy needs for the property uh there will be no fossil fuels used on site and here is a street view looking east on riverside avenue and a view looking west on riverside avenue with terraces for the upper apartments and these corridors and spaces in the front that are inviting to the public and trying to create a um open and friendly space for for the community those are the slides mark finari may have something to add and steve is here as well if there are questions tom i see your hand is raised yeah it seems like i'm raising my hand way too many times but um yeah a couple quick questions first can i get a copy of the slides for the minutes absolutely okay and the second question i have is that it it wasn't clear to me but it looks like most of the units will not have any kitchen facilities so they'll the residents will be using a shared kitchen is that true no they all have kitchens um so um you can't see it but along this wall of each unit this is a living room and this is a kitchen there's a full kitchen in each one of these each one of these units okay yeah but there is communal there is a communal kitchen as well okay thanks i know karen you have your hand raised and then we'll go to sophie thank you um i've read multiple articles about the bank along there and i did check to see when they're the last article if your property because i knew about this proposal if you are in that area where they're worried about and it's not just one person there's been quite a few geologists worried about the sliding hillside there how are you going to support this large project with you know that fault or whatever they're calling it there but it does go quite a distance along there so carol and i'd love to if you're interested walk the site with you sometime um if you take a look behind this property you'll see that um the topography is very different from almost anywhere else along the road and actually behind this site there is a historic clovis indian site that is um many thousands of years old so the uh stability of this area is very different from what's going on as you go further west on the road or even as you go further east towards the salmon hole um and a lot of geotech work has already been done and will continue to be done um but there's actually a very beautiful gradual sloping uh area going down to the river um that i'd be love to share with you sometime thank you can i add something here lori go mark yeah carolin your question is an excellent question as the owner of the property for over 20 years what i can tell you is that when we started to think about development in this area um the slope stability was on our minds um and we've done as lori said we've we've completed the geotechnical work which was uh supportive of us continuing with the plan uh and i think i i walked a site with dave collie uh after the last meeting and stuff and it's really important the folks who lived in that building have been able to walk down to that site have their canoes there you know it's it's very very different than the area west of the sewers treatment facility uh so i would i'd invite you to take a walk with us if you can and we can show you in person what it's really about okay we'll go to sophie followed by air hard and then fletcher okay uh the multi-use path that begins on riverside at barrett street are you continuing that it's hard i see you have a bike and and walkers but it doesn't really look at this angle it doesn't look like it's a wide multi-use path the wide multi-use use path continues right past this property and will continue uh to do so and there is also a bus stop right at this property thank you so it's looking to be very multimodal and um to support alternate transportation from vehicles okay air hard you can go uh hey mark hey lori um couple questions um one is um so i can't remember what the zoning is for this i assume that you don't need any kind of zoning change uh for the density that you have proposed for the the site and in combination with the the slopes um is that is that a fair assumption that's totally correct in fact the initial initial uh plans that we were working on were for 68 units air hard and that falls within the zoning uh but it felt too dense for the space and we tried to come up with something that really is um appropriate for for where it's situated and and you said the number was down to 48 was that it i believe it's 47 47 well damn close um how are you uh well two questions kind of folding into one how are you complying with inclusionary zoning um what and what is the square footage of your micro apartments i will uh defer to steve kridel for those steve you there yes i'm here this is steve so uh the square footage uh for the apartments on the second and third floors is around 330 square feet 325 330 uh and the upper the ones on the top floors are larger they're around five little 500 and 600 and in terms of the inclusionary we that is part of the what we're going to part of the process here and ideally we want to keep rents low enough that that's i mean it's not going to be an issue that's one of the goals of the project but uh we with uh uh we're at 35 or we are going going to have to or we will provide inclusionary housing as partly with for a height bonus so that is part of the design so approximately maybe seven or eight units would be uh would meet inclusionary requirements i think that's the percentage 15 15 percent it's actually going to be more than that there's 48 units on the second and third floors and there are uh 17 more units on the upper on the top floor so it's we have more than that we're going to have around 15 kibbert oh okay i thought it was 47 units total i yeah i know it's it's 24 on the second floor 24 on the third floor and there's uh 17 on that the top two floors sorry i was wrong on that so what is that what's the total number of units the total number 65 oh it is okay so it's closer to what's permissible from zoning and density yeah a big thing we've done here is reduce the square footage that we had before about 10 000 square feet from what we showed previously gotcha and i'm sure you're familiar with uh inclusionary zoning i can't you know it was re uh kind of uh reformed and redesigned a couple of years ago and one of the hot topics um back then was uh square footage so i think that's just just as a heads up that's something to pay attention to um because and i can't remember exactly where that ended up in the final analysis but uh square footage the small size of the units could be a problem for the inclusionary units my last question um has to get similar to sophie's um so having been involved in the creation of the river walk down along the river many many years ago that was dependent on um the property owners along riverside avenue that owned down to the embankment providing easements for uh to the windows keep uh the parks district um and so just um question do you intend to um continue to honor those easements do you want to answer that marker do you want me to no it's a it's a good question i remember talking to the director of the linuski valley park in the district and we actually talked about it you know the easements as they currently existed and talked about expanding them oh about a year year and a half ago when we first started to put together the project so the answer to your question your heart and quickly is yes we will continue to honor the easements and actually we'll talk about how to improve them because there's some work that needs to be done down by the um down by the trail yeah and why i'll just i'll jump in for a second error hard and say that we've also talked quite a bit about trying to provide uh additional public access down through the property to that trail to provide more connectivity for the community to that amazing asset that will be awesome thank you okay next we have Fletcher and we'll end with Zariah for questions yes hello um i'm curious as to the timeline of this project is it currently stands good question do you want to take that mark well yeah i think we're you know what we're doing right now we've had we're we've finished the third third design phase phase right now what we're currently doing is looking at financing options we're putting together the financing deck how this is going to work uh so we're we are when we finish that we'll also initiate at the same time uh the beginning of the act 250 review and the permitting process um and we have some work to do to get ready for for both of those so i would say it's going to take us a while um lumber costs have come down a little bit we're pleased about that building materials the supply side is looking better um i mean if you said to me short term the shortest it could probably happen is probably a year and a half about a year year and a half from now year and a year and a quarter to a year and a half um but we would like to time the opening of it to um when when it makes a good time to bring the units on on the market all right thank you yep and isn't my turn yeah and i just wanted to say um thank you for picking the concerns seriously on the um site i feel like a lot of the other people who have come before npa's and the drb have kind of put those away so um just appreciate someone coming before us saying yeah we're looking at it and we hear you and um so i wanted to say that thank you well just in response to that i want to say our goal is to provide a sustainable long-term housing solution for the community and if it's built on a site that's not suitable that's not going to meet that goal so we want to do everything we can to um um build something that's going to really let stand the test of time okay great thank you um next up we have grace with the people for police accountability thank you very much folks thank you very much appreciated hi everyone um my name is grace file and i'm just here to kind of speak with you all um on behalf of people for police accountability about community control of police so i think i have about 15 minutes i'm going to try to go through the information real quick and then hopefully we'll have a little bit of time for questions at the end um and i'm i'm just going to chat and then i'll share my screen um at the end with all of our contact information um so i just wanted to talk a little bit about what community control of police is what's in the actual proposal um and then where we are now in the campaign and i really want to encourage all of you and folks who might be watching us at home on channel 317 if there are anybody um to reach out and just email us at any point if you have any questions we would love to connect with you um and i can share our email at the end so people for police accountability is a group of concerned community members and we're organizing specifically around community control of police um which sarah i mentioned earlier community control of police is the creation of an independent community control board with diverse membership and disciplinary and investigatory powers over our police department um and our goal is to get community control police on the ballot for the special election in november through the petition process um and hopefully if we're able to collect all the signatures that we need we'll all have the opportunity to vote on this in november and so i'm sort of here to just make sure that um if we do end up getting the opportunity to vote on this that everyone has an opportunity to make the most informed vote possible so if you're going to vote yes um we want that to be an informed yes and if you're going to vote no we want that to be an informed no right um so community control of police is a proposal to change the city charter which is basically like the constitution of our city and to create an independent community control board with investigatory and disciplinary power over our police department um so currently right now if you experience unfair treatment or police violence or misconduct you have to report that directly back to the police department right and they are tasked with investigating themselves um and there is very little transparency into the investigation and adjudication of complaints of misconduct um and the police chief is the only one who has the power to discipline or fire police officers so even though we pay the police to do their job and we grant them special authorities we don't actually have the ability to directly hold them accountable um we fund the police department with our tax dollars and then we also have to pay for settlements and for buyouts of officers in use of force cases um but ultimately none of us not even city council um not even the mayor can directly hold police officers accountable so the community control board would be made up of you know to the extent possible folks who are most directly impacted by policing so we're talking about BIPOC members of our community we're talking about LGBTQ folks um and folks who have experienced addiction and houselessness and mental health issues um the board members would undergo extensive training um and then the board would also have an independent investigatory office and that investigatory office would be in charge of um receiving complaints and investigating complaints and also creating better processes for us to be able to receive those complaints right and to really have that independent body who's in charge of that I think is really important um the board would also have input into the hiring criteria for police officers and the police chief um they would review complaints and hold hearings and then the board would also have the ability to discipline or remove police officers including the chief um and then the board and its office are also going to be issuing regular public reports to allow for as much transparency as possible so that was a lot of a lot of information um but I also just wanted to share three things with you that I think are really important to understand um so police officers would continue to have a right to do process that right to do process is protected and maintained in this proposal um and the police department would still be able to investigate complaints that the board chooses not to take up so that would be maybe lower level infractions um things pertaining to uniforms and violations of that nature another thing that's really important to know is that the community control board and its office are only conducting investigations when there has been a complaint of misconduct right so they're not searching around for things to investigate they're only investigating based on a complaint that they receive um additionally the community control board would not replace the current police commission um we as a as a group feel that the police commission has an important role working with the police department um to craft policies and directives and to have sort of an overall advisory view of the department so we envision these two bodies the police commission and then the community control board existing alongside each other um and it's it's just really crucial that there be a body that is fully independent from the police department that it can investigate and adjudicate discipline so across the country there's over 150 different models of police oversight in cities of all different sizes and demographics and the Burlington model is based on existing community oversight models in part um and our community control police proposal is also directly aligning with the criteria for effective oversight of police that was created by the ACLU of Vermont so that's those those principles that the ACLU outlines that's sort of directly what we started with and so we are our proposal meets all of those criteria um community control police has had extensive input and support from community members um and we're supported by the ACLU of Vermont um we're also supported by the National Association of Civilian Oversight of law enforcement um as well as local grassroots organizations including the Vermont Racial Justice Alliance um Migrant Justice the Women's Freedom and Justice Initiative and the Battery Park Movement um and this you know this process of changing the city charter is actually something that was initiated by city council right so last summer after the murder of George Floyd we experienced one of the largest uprisings around racism and police violence um in this country's history and some of the largest protests and you know demonstrations around police violence that we've seen in Burlington um and in response to that the city council unanimously passed the protesters and public safety resolution and the racial justice through economic and criminal justice resolution and so both of those resolutions tasked city council with exploring public safety alternatives and through the protesters and public safety resolution city council requested um that the charter change committee review options for who makes and reviews police disciplinary decisions um and as council high tower kind of alluded to earlier the community control of police charter change um was passed by city council um on December 14th but then was vetoed by mayor Weinberger um which blocked community control of police from being on the ballot during the march election so our goal now is to get community control police on the ballot for the special election in November um and we're doing this through the petition process so we're currently on our way to collecting about 2,000 signatures from um registered voters in Burlington so that we all as a city can decide if this is something that we want to move forward with um so I'm gonna share I think I'm gonna just share our our website and our contact information so folks can um learn more there's like you know a lot more information we could go a lot more in depth um I'm gonna try to try to do that if I can figure it out and I'm happy to answer questions if I have time here Soraya I see your hand is raised I just wanted to apologize to Grace I clearly forgot that this was on the agenda and I did not mean to steal any of the thunder no worries no worries at all I think it was helpful that you brought that up actually are there any other questions Jonathan and then Jack and then Tom all right thank you um Grace I I think this is all really interesting I think it's a very very important um I'm I'm a little confused about uh the the separate roles of a community control board and a commission and and I don't know I mean there's hundreds of ways you say across the country that this can be done um I don't I guess I don't understand why creative some kind of innovation couldn't make one board one commission that does policy as well as investigations maybe you can just help me clarify that yeah so that's a that's a really good point I think um you know the police commission is something that is a body that's actually existed for a number of years um and I think in my personal opinion I feel like they this this body was created and um it still feels a little bit unclear to me like exactly what their what their role is um and they do do a lot of work um around you know crafting policy and and helping to give feedback to the department um which is really important you know I think we we could just have the community control board and the investigative office um we could have both the police commission and the community control board I also think that you know more more oversight mechanisms are not a bad thing um and I think it can feel a little bit um maybe shocking isn't the right word but I think going from having no oversight mechanisms to having multiple um is very you know very different than what we have what we have now I don't know if that exactly answers your question um in Chicago they are currently you know going there's other cities that are going through this exact same process now um Chicago is the one city that I can think of that does have both um a you know some sort of community control board and then they also have a police and fire commission um as well that are combined um but yeah I'm I'm happy to talk to talk about that more I think that's a really great question okay thank you I think I'm think I'm next right Anna yeah I was just gonna thank you grace for for coming here and presenting and opening up the conversation and working on this and look forward to engaging on it and yeah Jonathan's point that was that was definitely a huge part of the conversation as we worked through this similar proposal at the council level um I think one of the most compelling things to me and I'm still open to the possibility of trying to figure something out but the reason I was pretty convinced by the separate function was because one of the main aspects of this oversight model is independence from the police department and the current structure the current police commission is very much embedded within the police department which there are definitely benefits to that and they collaborate directly and work directly with leadership at bpd to you know adjust policy but this function of having independent oversight I think the independence is important so maybe there is a way to get really creative and and have one entity that that does all of this at once but um that I found pretty compelling yeah thanks jack and then Tom you're up yeah um thanks for the presentation or the the discussion here I sort of have following uh Jonathan's question I I don't really understand why we need two different entities it seems like we could dissolve the police commission and put whatever their responsibilities are and then add it to the responsibilities you've defined and have just one entity to to deal with both it would certainly prevent conflicts between the two if if the police commission says that police can use a lot of force and the and the community control of police say no they can't I don't know how you would resolve that so I think having one board that would provide perhaps for some more consistency in um how the police are managed right yeah and I think that's a that's a really good point and I think the the reason why I I you know sort of include that that part in my spiel right that that we're envisioning them existing alongside each other is because of of sort of what jack said we don't want to just transform the police commission into the community control board right because we're starting with a body that already um inherently is not fully independent um and so I think it it does feel really important to create something totally new that would have um you know that would be independent and that would have investigatory and disciplinary um disciplinary power and I think right now you know they they could exist alongside each other especially if the roles were very clearly defined because I think policy things like use of force policy is something that right now is is only something that the police commission is is working on um in sort of this uh advisory capacity where they're able to to help draft um policies and then kind of or and give feedback on on um policies that the police department already has and then be in in conversation with um with the department about those policies um but I yeah I mean I I don't see why that could not all be um within the scope of what the board is responsible for so um yeah and then Jack and Zariah are your hands raised again I just see your hands are still up so I want to make sure I get to both of you if so yeah mine was just to add a little bit more color to the the which because I think I also at the beginning started on the thing of like could they be the same um and I do just having seen how the police commission works with the police department um not just the embeddedness but the collaborativeness and I feel like if it were a different if we were in a different moment in time maybe this wouldn't be as much of a problem maybe it would be more like an HR function which of course is within the organization all of the time but like the there's just a lot of defensiveness right now in the police department and so to some extent if you have a body that is supposed to be doing discipline then the chances that you're going to have them turn around and work with that same body really closely on policy if that is not a thing that we think is important in terms of like working really closely with that body to make policy I think that's fine but right now there's still a high level of trust between the police commission and the um police department that I think could be eroded very quickly if they were given oversight responsibility and so I think it's a little bit of a question of is that is that okay do you want the policymakers to not have that close relationship with the police department is my sense of what would happen and that's not a one is better than the other I think that's just a the way that the police commission exists right now wouldn't it wouldn't have the same relationship okay and then Jack is going to be the last comment sorry yeah sorry to go twice um so yeah I just piggybacking off of that but most folks who've raised this the pitch has been to to merge this work into the police commission and I think for the reasons we've said I don't think that that's a good idea but what Tom what Tom just said of having this body be the body to do everything and essentially dissolve the police commission that I think is an is an interesting idea maybe worth exploring more that I haven't heard explored too much um at all so I don't know that's interesting maybe Zariah has heard more about that idea than I have so I think my last comment still stands regardless of what direction you go it's it's hard to have both of those functions of a close relationship and a disciplinary body right now regardless of how you set it up I think yeah and I I agree and I I really appreciate you all raising these questions I think this is part of the purpose of of coming to these meetings is just trying to to get thoughts from get thoughts from folks and and have these questions that we can continue to think about and figure out um but yeah I think I think you know what Zariah is saying is is totally true I think it is really important at least right now to have um a body that has like a really a level of trust with the police department and is able to have a really close working relationship with them um that you know isn't adversarial and you know ideally the community control police board would also not have an adversarial relationship with the police department um but yeah thank you so much for for letting me speak really appreciate it yes thank you grace um next up is the DPW project update hi um thank you for having us can you hear me okay yes all right well thanks for having us we will try to be as quick as possible and hopefully leave time or questions for the group if you have any we are here to talk a little bit about consolidated curbside collection we'll also touch on the sidewalk study which I know many of you are interested in and we'll try to package that part of it in to the larger construction update that we're planning for the year and is already underway including I think some things of note and interest for wards one and eight I am joined by my colleagues Lee Perry the division director of maintenance for DPW and Madeline Swender DPW engineer I think senior engineer Laura Wieloch has also joined us so she might be here to start I'm going to turn it over to Lee Perry and I'll share my screen so we can start the discussion on consolidated collection and we'll move into sidewalks and construct hey Rob as Rob said my name is Lee Perry I'm the division director of maintenance for DPW so I oversee uh street maintenance fleet maintenance and our recycling program and we'll talk a little about consolidated collection I'll hit the wave tops on the slides so we can hopefully have some time to answer any questions that come up at the end so consolidated collection quick definition is you know using one holler or entity to provide trash recycling and compost pickup and we're basing it off of one to four residential units in the city of Brentlington next slide please a little background in 2018 city council pastor resolution directing DPW to have a study conducted for consolidating the collection of trash recycling and compost in that study they state that nationwide out of 461 cities and counties it showed that 83% of these municipalities or communities consolidate their services under a variety of scenarios whether it's franchise municipal or a hybrid option the consultant also found that the likely benefits would be you know environmental benefits with the reduction of truck traffic reduced up to two-thirds of vehicle miles traveled in the city economic benefits would be you know residents would receive a weekly collection of all three waste streams for about what they pay right now for for trash and recycling and quality of life with the reduction of truck traffic within these residential neighborhoods you know less noise less pollution less damage to the infrastructure meaning our roads so those are some of the benefits we could see from the consolidating collection the possible scenarios you know as a city we need to decide if you know should we consolidate services or not and if yes you know the options could be uh consulting as franchised which would be putting it out to bid to uh private haulers where they would bid on districts or franchise zones or the other option is a municipal option where the city provides the services which would you know we'd be creating another division similar to our recycling but we would capture all three waste streams recycling trash and compost and here's a cost comparison of the franchise model and municipal model so we did three different options one being a zero percent opt out where we would not have any residential units opting out a 15 percent and a 25 percent opt out so as you can see in a monthly cost uh scale you know at the zero percent opt out we're we're fairly close with a franchise model and as you decrease participation in the service our price increases greater than what a franchise model would be and that would be due to um you know having to build a new building to house this division um additional capital trucks carts etc and next step so we're evaluating all the scenarios and we're going to present our our recommendation for consideration at the upcoming commission meeting which is this uh June 16th next week um you can check the agenda there and then the following week we'll be presenting to the transportation energy and utilities committee meeting um we've been to them uh two or three times so far and then um the dpw commission in two may choose to make a motion or different motions supporting either our recommendation or an alternative recommendation and then you know if the council decides to advance consolidated collection depending on which scenario it is it could take approximately three plus years uh you know depending on the model in either way you know it's um um you know imperative we take our time in in implementing this and doing it right um so that's the next steps and any feedback is welcome uh you can visit uh the link provided for background materials you can find our uh the franchised study that our consultant gbb did public comments available email dpw communications with any feedback or you can email me directly or call me with any questions and and any information i can provide you you know if i can i will hopefully answer any of your questions okay tom i see your hand is raised yeah highly can i get a copy or a better yet a pointer to your presentation so i can put it in the minutes yes robert can take care of that yeah okay and and i i think on your first slide it's does this apply to only to uh buildings with four units or more or four units or less one to four residential units so that would be four or less okay not commercial properties or anything beyond that and and when you say opt out that means that so we would we would give residents the chance to opt out in self-haul if they want to go to one of the drop-off centers that's located around the city you know south berlington williston um sx obviously the the berlington dock is not at full service right now they're only accepting food scraps right now um so that would be the the opt-out option okay okay taren i see your hand is raised thank you um so i guess this has gone on a long time and i know but does this mean the city is going to be doing this or is um gothiers or somebody like that you mentioned having to build a new building for trucks or whatever yeah so depending on you know which way the council decides they want to go whether it's a franchise model or a municipal model or some kind of hybrid model if it were a municipal model dpw would have to you know it's an additional 14 to seven uh 13 to 14 employees additional employees um to take on we already have our recycling employees so we'd be adding employees to do the trash and compost pickup customer service billing public outreach manager build a building we reach capacity at 645 pine street you know we don't have any more room for employees or more vehicles so we would have to procure property build a new building to house this division okay so then that would take a lot longer than if i i guess my understanding before when you know again this has been discussed for years was that instead of mires coming on a street and gothiers and duffies and all those they were going to divide the city so that gothiers had one section and so we didn't put them out of business but we stopped having four trucks go down our block thanks that would that would be the franchise model yeah so that would be where the city would have you know the local haulers there's kasella mires gothier duffies you know bid on districts right to collect those three waste streams so that's what you were understanding right and then that could at least be done more quickly because we've really put this off for so long that that seems like that would be more on the on the three year side of the three plus because you still need to give all these haulers you know maybe the bigger haulers can accommodate it but the smaller haulers if they win districts they might have to get more trucks get more employees um so there there has to be that transition period contracts rfps have to be drawn up um okay thank you you're welcome thank you for the question does anyone else have any questions okay i'm not seeing any other hand raised so oh oh zaria i see your hand is raised yeah just one question and then a comment which is one did the franchise versus city run model did you like the cost that include like the cost of you know it seemed like the city would have to increase their staffing anyways just to run all of the rfp processes and bidding and yeah so we we we did budget $50,000 for a consultant to do that implementation period okay um and there's no like annual cost in terms of rebidding or something like that it's on a much longer scale correct it would be if it was a franchise model it'd be at least a seven year contract okay that way you know they can get a return on investment with their vehicles similar to what we do with our recycling trucks on a seven-year rotation okay and then this is just a comment more for the steering committee is i mean hopefully our npa will grow and eventually we'll have a whole bunch of members um but i think it would be cool as as you know departments give um give presentations and stuff if there was just a way to like quickly like do a poll or something like that from like people like everybody in the audience just to get an understanding of like what people think about it um i don't know how that would be implemented in person so maybe it's too difficult of a request but i think it for us it's really nice to actually hear what you all are thinking um and not just questions but us as city counselors and the department probably yeah and i encourage you know we we do rob does a great deal of public outreach and and prior to these meetings uh you know so we encourage everyone to show up at these meetings if they can and participate in them and you know if you can get the word out in your neighborhoods about these meetings that'd be helpful too because it's it's a big decision okay great does anyone else have any questions okay i'm not seeing any other hands can i talk oh yeah sorry i think it's okay um i just a quick comment that i'm very excited about the possibility of the consolidated pickup going forward um without much knowledge i think i'd be real excited about the city doing the work i'm sure that's not a popular option and the kick the the blowback from the private haulers i'm sure i know is going to be immense but again without a whole lot of information although i did attend um years ago uh cswd um work on consolidation and um so again of course it anyway i'm i'm very excited about the prospect either way it goes i'll i'll be happy i believe thanks for the work well thank you you're welcome and you're correct you know this was brought up um back in 2009 with chitman's hallways district um trying to get consolidated collection going and they did pretty comprehensive study last until 2014 but it just was no buy-in with the haulers and they couldn't find a common ground so they felt it easier to do it by community rather than county-wide so that's you know kind of where we're at right now again thank you yep you just just wanted to repeat myself about really appreciating the work that you've done and look looking forward to some results like as you say three to five years and the community work that goes in in the meanwhile thank you okay and then i see jason you have your hand raised i'll just make a quick comment i'm a person that would be under that opt out and uh that's because i actually tried to consolidate my waste stream so that so little it doesn't actually make sense for me to pay for a hauler to come to my house and what sort of uh you know incentive or what can we do to get people to actually reduce their waste stream uh to that level that it's easy to drop it off or you can have it for a long period of time um because i currently would be make no fit uh financial sense for me to sign up for a hauler yeah you know this is you know we're at our conceptual budget right now and our service levels that you saw in the zero percent fifteen twenty five percent opt out once we get a decision on which way we're going to go that's when we're really narrow down and hammer down what our our service levels will be whether it's every other week trash every other week recycling being in the recycling right now and having seen it um every other week recycling in our community right now i don't see that happening just with the tonnages that we're collecting right now we're 28 tons a month above what we average last fiscal year um i'm assuming because of the pandemic and everybody's home and amazon it's a lot of cardboard um so we'll we'll get different service levels other than those options that we had listed once we get it narrowed down to what kind of model we're going to go with okay any last questions i just if i can just clarify my point that i forgot to say is just tying it together that i believe dpw does a pretty outstanding job with the recycling so i think that's part of my um concept with thinking wanting to think seriously about having them do it all just based on dpw's track record with recycling i think it's just pretty wonderful i don't expect to end up there but i'd certainly like to put my voice towards that eventuality if the community wants that thanks again thank you i'll pass that on to our recycling guys i'm sure they would appreciate hearing that okay last call for questions and then i'm going to pass it over to jonathan okay jonathan all you know kind of should we um jump to the sidewalk section which i know is a request of the steering committee we can skip the other things if that makes sense for you and jonathan and the steering committee yeah rob i think we should jump to the sidewalks but before we do is rye i really like your idea can we just if does everybody know how to raise their hands um if everybody knows how to raise their hands then we could if i guess if we can take the slides off that might help um if everybody can raise their hands maybe we could just have a quick poll like saraya suggested uh folks who think maybe the city should do this or folks who prefer franchise um so if uh do i can't i don't know how to ask if people need instruction if you click on the participants button you'll see a list of all the participants and at the bottom right it says raise hand hey jonathan i i think i think you're going to have three options because i think uh you're going to have to add the opt out okay um but the opt out even opt out or so like saral might have an opinion right so folks can opt out under either model though right whether it's municipal or franchise there's still the opportunity right right oh i i thought opt out was only being considered it wasn't necessarily uh a default so if we could just see have a show of hands of folks who think uh the municipal direction is the right way to go could just raise your hands and tom you want to count them i got two four six eight ten i'm not voting folks please don't count me i'm stating i'm not ready to make a decision on this not as so we have nine nine okay could you lower your hands and could folks who might prefer a franchise uh solution raise their hands i'm also not voting like airheart i don't feel like i know enough to really know what i would like thank you count one okay so there's a there's a very um anecdotal set of data um and thank you for doing that and i think in person we can do it easy with show of hands but we could do it easy this way too and thanks sarai it's a great thing we should have been doing this all along jonathan i don't know if you know our version of zoom has this function but zoom does allow people you know to uh it allows for polling through you know little drop-down menus and i think my suggestion is to try and get a larger sampling its successive uh npa's possibly and i don't know it just seems like the city should be doing more outreach on this this is a pretty major major thing uh i you know i know it's not the first time it's being discussed but frankly i you know like karen said i i i just don't know how i where i stand on this exactly and i think a lot more information needs to be put out there and i think you know all the npa's should be polling and should be polling more than just anecdotally on this sure um okay well thank you very much for that i think um uh i suspect the decision's going to be made before the next meeting uh next npa meeting but um i appreciate you're doing that and then i'll hand it back to you hannah thank you yeah um i think we're going on to sidewalks now yeah we'll jump right into that i'll um reshare my screen and then i will turn it back over to a couple of my colleagues here i did just want to locate us in this discussion about sidewalks which is we are now kind of at the end of our 2016 bond funding under the sustainable infrastructure plan a lot of progress on infrastructure has been made over these five years with the funding that we are now pretty much at the end run of which includes a tripled sidewalk reconstruction nearly 20 of the city paved and a real proactive emphasis on water main repairs usually we go into greater detail on those i'm not going to do that here for the benefit of everybody and the time i do think it's important before we jump right into sidewalks to talk a little bit about that big picture very quickly which is we're at the end of that original pot of funding that was allocated by the voters in 2016 to sustain the level of work we've made some people are happy with our work some people think we always need to do more we generally would agree with that but to sustain what we have done over the last four years more funding will be necessary mayor and council recently did allocate more funding for sidewalks for this year which will allow us to once again triple the rebuilding of sidewalks that we normally do which is great news for the short term um it's a community conversation as we say here that will evolve so let us know um you know let your counselors know where you want to take funding in the future for infrastructure with all that said we are pursuing as many projects as possible leveraging other kinds of funding as well like a major project we have in the south end which we're happy to talk more about folks from you who may be impacted by the shelburn roundabout project but we're always looking to leverage state and federal money to make improvements in the state with that said i know sidewalks was a main topic of interest for for us coming today so we know we've we've rebuilt about 13 miles over the last four years sidewalks tend to have a 40 year life cycle and so our recent construction trends really put us on a sustainable schedule of repair and replacement of sidewalks but again that's with the kind of additional allocation of funds that we've seen over the last four or five years did just want to briefly share a list of the sidewalks in words one and eight that we will be tackling this year these are typically smaller stretches between i think i looked at the chart 18 and 150 linear feet some of these streets you see in front of you will be those 18 foot segments some will be a little bit longer some of these streets will have multiple segments you can kind of see the snapshot on the right there we have a link we'll share where you can kind of drill into exactly what segments of what streets we're doing and also if there is time and you want to ask we certainly have the right folks to talk about that on this call but i'm going to turn it over now to madeline swender dpw engineer and senior engineer laura wheelock to talk a little bit about the sidewalk inventory the sidewalks assessment inventory that we're currently undertaking to look at the entire network with sidewalks hi everyone so i'll just give you a very quick overview of this effort that we are currently undergoing to get the entire city sidewalk network inventoryed based on all the repairs that need to be made so the last inventory that was done on the sidewalk was completed in 2014 it's recommended that this happened approximately every five years so we're coming up on six years and we've partnered with bureau veritas to do all the data collection and then rsg will be doing the post processing and packaging of all the data to get it in a more user friendly and clean layout so the scope of work that bureau veritas is currently undergoing is the collection of all the discrepancies throughout the city sidewalk network you can see this picture here they have this machine that they are pushing across all of the sidewalks and within that machine there's various sensors that can calculate the roughness cross slope change in level so if there's any tripping hazards and other various ada deficiencies so ultimately this will be packaged in a gis map that will essentially show score all of the sidewalk segments so they're collecting data every 10 feet so we'll have a very complete and updated inventory and then the next slide has the timeline for this so bureau veritas estimated that this will take roughly two weeks for them to do all of the data collection so they were anticipating starting this week so by the end of june they'll have data collection completed and then they'll have to do some post processing and dpw will have to review and work with their staff to just make sure the end product that they send to us is complete and clean and then from there we will work with rsg and they will help us again do some post processing of the data to get it ready to be used for future work planning as well as make it a bit more outward facing and give us some helpful and um high level overview and summary charts and tables and just different metrics that we can share and update and more easily provide to the public so it'll be a bit more interactive in that way that's pretty much the update I had so happy to answer any questions and if Lara has anything to add Caitlyn I see you have your hand raised yeah I was just wondering what kind of work is planned for adding any additional sidewalks um like in our neighborhood I feel like the top section of archibald is a section that I would like to walk a lot it's a useful section but doesn't have a sidewalk and has a pretty dangerous curve on it where it meets up with prospects so um that's a specific question but uh also asking generally about the addition of sidewalks in places where there's none yep uh that's a great question the effort that's ongoing right now will actually use the tools that we basically sort our sidewalks into their prioritizations to provide us our sidewalk gaps and take the metrics that we use for anticipated activity based on neighborhood uses destinations attractions um the neighborhoods that tend to walk more the neighborhoods that are disconnected they're going to apply that over the top of the gaps and give us a way to prioritize where we should focus in filling our existing network with new sidewalks that makes sense thank you Karen I see your hand is raised yes um can you please tell me the cost to the city to hire out the Bureau Veritas and the other one um I please um the two consultants um I believe come in around 80,000 total which is about 50,000 less than we paid back in 2014 okay yeah it is less I always feel and I heard you're going to hire somebody 50,000 dollars pay someone 50,000 this is DPW also for the trash thing we have so many fine engineers on board so many more than we've ever had before I'm always kind of amazed that we have to keep also hiring consultants is there any you know just out of your leaks to do that kind of stuff or why are we always we have a really big budget on consultants correct um this this coming fiscal year doesn't have um the same previous consultant line item um this works specifically the tool that they use um we've searched the country and really the machinery to do an empirical collection of the sidewalks deficiencies it doesn't exist in the northeast there's no firms that have this um the other consultant RSG you know they're really very focused in being able to review data metrics package it so that it is presentation worthy the engineers that DPW currently has you know we're highway engineers we're bridge engineers wastewater engineers um data analytics is not our specialty okay thank you okay and then we will end with Jason uh so I'd like to say I'm glad you're taking an inventory of everything and trying to get an understanding of the condition in all the places that's uh something that's you know I think a lot of data is needed for that because there's so many variations all over those sidewalks um but when applying the criteria Burlington's a very unique city not like any other city and how do they who is the person determining what a high usage area is a low usage area is and the importance of that there's hundreds of miles of sidewalks here and I don't think an outside consultant understands the impact of different zones and areas in the usages and I feel like downtown will get prioritized 100 percent because of business and money and income but the neighborhoods where people live and walk and have real issues get left behind and you know Archibald I've been asking for that for 21 years another one is mill street right at the bridge there's parking down both sides there's no way to get there there's businesses all sorts of stuff going on there's a high traffic area and there's nothing there and so I hope that you really take into account the prioritization of the different areas in a correct manner for what's appropriate for the city you know that said today I was actually walking downtown in front of April Cornell on Battery Street and somehow I never noticed this before but there is no sidewalk there it's just a parking lot people park straight across and I could not get through I had to like go out into Battery Street to get around it with traffic and how does the city not have a right away there and how is that not prioritized honestly I don't really walk there that often I usually bike or somewhere else but I hope those main areas get taken care of for the most dollar from you know best bang for a buck I guess you know that you know those areas really need some work yep thanks Jason you have a lot of great points there the prioritization actually will start with our effort from our 2014 analysis and that prioritization built upon an effort from 2009 the activity score as we refer to it is all based on staff's input but we selected the criteria the distance from a park the score that it would get if it's a retirement home if it's a school if it's a playground even the different types of parks and the amenities that they offer some of the largest parks aren't necessarily the highest destinations for a neighborhood that walks so it is city staff that is guiding that criteria you make a lot of great points also about some of our unique sidewalk conditions and the obstructions which is a ADA deficiency that can occur and I would also mention that C-click fix has been very good for when I report stuff to get stuff back sometimes it gets ignored but I know that you don't actually data mine C-click fix and I think there's a treasure trove of information on hotspots that are areas that get reported all the time and they don't necessarily no one looks at that data going backwards and figures out maybe some prioritization so I'd love to see C-click fix get some real data analyzation on it Jason you raise a really good point and it's I think a really key time that you raised that the city has recently put forth brought forward and had approved an asset management plan which is essentially going to be able to capture the data around the city on you know our asset side on our maintenance schedule for things like sidewalks paving including in-house city equipment like our trucks when are they maintained when are they scheduled for maintenance it's going to allow us to capture a whole trove of data that we may have right now in different buckets with less kind of utility because of how the data is captured this system that we're kind of training on right now we've interviewed other cities we did look at a couple different vendors it's going to take at least part of the place of C-click fix on the back end for us eventually it may even replace C-click fix as a public portal but essentially what you're suggesting we do is something we try to do with C-click fix to your point it's not as intuitive as you know we would want it to be so we're actually undertaking a fairly comprehensive approach to this very thing right now it's called the essentially called the asset management program that the city multi-department initiative really being led I think by DPW to look at our to look at our assets to look at our data to look at our preventative and proactive repairs and maintenance and really dig into this data and have a I think a more assertive more proactive schedule for these things it's going to allow us to look at when things have been repaired you know the material used we're really hoping that this is going to get us to the really well into the 21st century on you know how we kind of holistically look at city assets so it's it's a great point yeah and I think your residents are your best asset to tell you where there's deficiencies they people that deal with it every day you know they're your best asset agreed all right I think that's a good place to stop um thank you all for coming tonight and yeah thank you thank you for having us thank you so much folks thank you Hannah thank you Tom thank you everyone thank you everyone thank you for staying through