 One of the things that I've always done as one of the brand founders and faces of the brand would literally just like talk to our community, ask them questions, listen to what they want because at the end of the day that's what will differentiate us you know between all these other brands because brands can replicate your product, brands can replicate you know your philosophy but brands can't replicate us as founders so making sure that we're still at the forefront of you know that communication. This is Starved to Storefront, the podcast where we inspire entrepreneurship through truth. Today's guest is Taylor Frankel, co-founder of the beauty brand Nude Sticks. Together with her mom and her younger sister, the three women sought to create a company that would cater to the subtle looks and on-the-go application that today's consumer demands. Though Taylor is still in her 20s, she has been in the game for quite some time now and speaks with the wisdom and maturity of someone far beyond her years. Taylor's mom Jenny has worked in the cosmetics industry for over 20 years and would always enlist her daughter's help in packing boxes or filling orders. In some ways they were all running a family business long before they found a Nude Sticks so it only makes sense that they would eventually make it official and put their combined talents to work. So listen in is we have everything from the challenges of being taken seriously as a young head of company, why trust and communication are two of the most crucial traits to have as a leader and how to adjust marketing strategies alongside the ever-changing social media landscape. Now back to the episode. Welcome to the podcast on today's show. We're talking to Taylor with Nude Sticks. Thanks so much for joining. Thank you for having me. I'm very excited. You have a beautiful space. Thank you. Thank you for coming. For people who don't know what is Nude Sticks? So Nude Sticks is a makeup company now skincare so we have both worlds. Nude Sticks is really about creating beauty products for the modern-day woman today. We call her the woman who has a career, who has a home, who has a family, who wants products that are easy to use, effortless and really just enhance her natural beauty. So I would say I'm kind of like that ideal Nude Sticks customer who is like that anti-makeup makeup essentially. So even back in the day for me, I wanted to use products that really just enhanced what I already had. I didn't want products that masked my beauty, my natural beauty, whatever you want to call it. So that's essentially what Nude Sticks is and we have a collection of products for your entire face. We're in over 850, almost a thousand points of distribution globally. We work with retailers from Sephora, Ulta, Nordstroms, Macy's. Let's go to the beginning. So what made you want to start the company? And you started with the company with your mom and your sister? Yes. So it's a family business. We've talked to couples that have been founders, but never someone with their parent. Yes, it's very interesting. So yeah, take us to the beginning of the company. What made you guys want to launch? So we launched about eight years ago. I was 17 years old and my sister was 14. My mom, Jenny, she's a chemical engineer as we discussed earlier, the brass ring. And she's been developing cosmetics for over 20 years. So she actually started her career at Mac Cosmetics. So one of the leading beauty brands of our generation and she developed many, many products for them. So from the Pro Foundation, I'm not too sure if you're familiar with any of their products. We're not, but it's okay. That's okay. If anyone's listening and knows Mac and some of their cult products, and then in the year 2000, she developed another beauty brand called Cover FX, which she actually started in our basement when my sister and I were literally both in diapers. So you can say that my sister and I were both beauty babies. We literally grew up in the industry. I remember when I was, you know, five or six years old, my mom would call it sticker time and we would be in the basement and we'd be packing labels. We would be putting labels on products and every single day off that we would have, you know, in my entire childhood, my mom was of the mindset of, you know, why do you need a day off? Like if we had days off at school, she's like, well, what are you going to do? Watch TV all day? No, no, you're going to come to the warehouse, you're going to pack boxes, you're going to help, you know, going to help us at work. So we've always been very inspired and around entrepreneurial, you know, parents, both my mom and my dad were both entrepreneurs. So when I first hear about this, I mean, you were 17, your sister was 14, you know, you're both probably still in high school. And when you just take it at that, it seems like a very daunting undertaking to start a company then. But when you put it into perspective of, oh, well, we've been doing stuff like this most of our lives on all of our days off, it really helps to see how that train of thought ended up coming around to, well, might as well start a company because it's the next logical progression in what we've already been doing. I mean, was there a conversation that had to take place between your family before you guys took this massive step? Like, had you thought about the ramifications of completing school while starting a company? Yes. So similar to you, I had a very clear, you know, I said to myself, oh, I'm going to go to business school. And in high school, when we launched Newt Sticks, we obviously did not know where Newt Sticks would take us. For us, it was really this passion, I wouldn't necessarily call it a project, but we had a passion for this brand. And we were really following my mother's leadership when it came to just business acumen and launching a brand and visiting new markets. And at 17 years old, I was just excited to be a part of something that was very exciting and meeting with press and influencers and meeting with retailers and sitting with executives and building a brand. But I had no intention or even foresight to see, you know, where this brand would take me. So I was actually balancing both school and Newt Sticks at the time. I was in university in Toronto. I was at business school studying actually business management. And after a year and a half, I actually decided to, I call it my sabbatical, but it's been about five years now. So let's talk about that. So as you're in business school, but you're literally running a business on the side, was your mind like, this is so dumb? Or were you like, oh, this is kind of useful? No, like, yeah, it was dumb, right? It was, it was, and I listened to business school while starting a company. And I had the same feeling. I was like, this is so strange. I'm like, I'm not learning anything about business. We took organizational behavior. And I was like, Oh my God, don't get me started about organizational behavior. Okay. So OB and I was like, this is maybe, I don't know. I was like, this is not how I plan to run a business. It just felt very antiquated, which makes sense, right? So typically education will follow innovation. And so it's never ahead of it. It's always behind it. Yes. It was very frustrating. It was very frustrating. And one of the things that really, really frustrated me was my business school wasn't very flexible when it came to my schedule while I was launching a business. So that was really the reason why I decided to take a sabbatical slash break slash dropout of my school and really focus on nude sticks full time. And like you said, launching a business comes with so many sacrifices and hurdles and really, really teaches you how to manage, how to lead, how to work with so many different personalities. You come across so many problems and really identifying how to solve problems quickly, right? And I feel like a lot of business schools or what I was learning back then also wasn't adapting or pivoting to how the market was changing, right? Like social media had a huge influence on business and how to market your business, whether it was influencers, like, you know, you had no idea in business school, like what even influencer marketing was and especially in the beauty world. It's so critical. And even when it comes to, you know, launching new markets, right? You know, you're meeting with so many different people and cultures and, you know, you're really having to adapt based on where you're traveling to. So yeah, I think the experience of launching a business was, you know, an experience that and something you would never necessarily learn in a classroom. Would you call it like that non makeup makeup? Like that's kind of the angle you're going for where it's meant for people to look at. Does that also mean it takes less time to get ready or to get your, I sound so dumb. No, no, no. That was, you know, most men wouldn't even know no makeup makeup. So I'm glad that you brought that up. Okay. That was the whole angle from the beginning. So I guess for anyone listening who isn't familiar with the beauty industry or, you know, doesn't follow beauty, eight years ago, really all you saw in the industry, if you were to flip through a magazine or if you're watching a YouTube video was really about like this more is more artistry, which meant more color, more coverage. Maybe it was a one hour tutorial on how to create the perfect smokey eye, lots of Photoshop. Like think about even like the Kim K. makeup of eight years ago, right? Very, very glamorous. And my sister and I, you know, had this vision of who's wearing this every day. Honestly, though, like go to New York, go to LA, go to Paris, go to Singapore, like literally stand on the sidewalks or even go in a subway, right? Like most women are doing their makeup on the go, like on their way to work. Very, very few people have the ability to sit in front of their mirror for an hour in the morning to do their full face. And I don't know about you. I mean, men who, you know, maybe don't wear makeup or, you know, have the luxury of rolling out of bed and putting some water in their hair, right? I'm jealous. I'm very, very jealous. But most women, you know, we want a little bit just to make us feel a little bit more confident every morning. So, you know, we wanted to provide that luxury to women today without feeling, you know, the need to spend hours and hours on end on their beauty routine. There's a new documentary, Hillary, about Hillary Clinton. Okay. And there's a part of it where it's basically showing you what a woman goes through when running a campaign of any kind and what a man goes through. And in that, she's like, I'm judged based on my outfits. I'm judged based on this. She's like, also, she tallied up, I guess, how many days she had spent just getting her makeup done. And it was 25 days over the course of the campaign. And she's like, a man doesn't have to do that. And she's like, I'm starting from a point where I have to do this for what? Who am I appeasing? What am I really doing? Why does this matter? Why is this everything that people talk about in the press? And, you know, her whole team, they were just like, this is just something that we have to do. But it's almost like she was creating awareness about women's rights and, you know, really moving that forward. But at the end of the day, she was still being bashed by any decision she made. 100%. And it's funny because even if you watch these documentaries on women getting ready throughout the years, right? So if you see women getting ready in the 20s and then the 30s and then the 40s, right? Each decade, I think women have definitely obviously progressed so much over the years and how, you know, what our beauty routine looks like. But I even remember my grandmother, right? Like she would never, never wear a bare face in front of my grandfather. She would actually wake up an hour earlier or a few hours earlier, put her face on, you know, take out her rollers, get back into bed. And when she woke up, she looked flawless. I actually don't even remember my grandmother not wearing a lipstick or, you know, eye shadow. Her hair until the age of 89 was always perfect. So, you know, I think it does have to do with also this new generation of women, you know, who aren't going to wear makeup or, you know, certain clothing to appease, you know, men or, or society. It's really about what makes you feel good. And that was kind of our vision, right? Like what you said, no makeup makeup. It's like, you know, we want to obviously feel good and maybe men have the same type of routine, but in different ways. Maybe it's, you know, I'm going to use a certain cleanser that makes me feel good in the morning. When you were launching at the beginning and you needed to get these influencers on board, right? Because at the end of the day, like social media is what hits today. Was it difficult? Was it like when you pitched them on your concept and they were so used to seeing all these like a lot of makeup, essentially, was it hard for them to understand it? Or were they on board? Did they see it right away? Yeah. Well, it's interesting because I think you mentioned earlier, like when you wear no makeup makeup, does that mean it takes more time? And in some ways, you know, it's not necessarily that it takes more time, but it does take a little bit more even expertise and thoughtfulness when it comes to the products you use, the textures and the tones. So it also comes down to a science in a way, right? Because we're developing shades that are really suitable for all skin tones and really matching your skin tone and your undertone. So, you know, someone like myself who's more of like a fair to light skin does have more pink to my skin tone. So what type of neutrals do I need that just enhances what I have versus someone who's a medium skin tone versus someone who's, you know, of a deep skin tone? So there was a lot of education because we're not masking. We're not just like throwing on full coverage or like throwing on color that, you know, creating this canvas. It's really about creating product that will just melt into the skin to look like you. And I remember going to retailers, my mom would like meet with Sephora and these big retailers and she'd say, okay, I have this concept. It's less is more makeup, right? It's like less product, less time. And they said, well, what do you mean? That's not going to sell product. We want to sell more. Like that was why there is this whole trend about more is more makeup because we want to get as many products on our customers face as possible. So it was difficult at first. Did you guys raise capital or did you bootstrap at the beginning? So in the beginning, we did bootstrap, you know, it's a family owned business. So both my parents did invest quite a bit personally. And then we did ask a few of our friends who are in business and we're supportive of our brand ideation and just vision and invest in the brand as well. Even a few of our family friends who, you know, were lawyers or, you know, in finance, you know, in return for ESOP also, you know, helped, you know, in the beginning of the business. Now we have, you know, had multiple kind of rounds of investment and work with a private equity group as well. But the family still owns majority of the business. And what was that like for you guys when you decided to finance and go away from bootstrapping and what was the barrier that you hit where you were just like, okay, if we're going to continue to grow this, this is the next step. Like what was that like for you? Well, it was actually very challenging because so my mom, she sold her previous company to private equity and she had a very, very negative experience because they sold majority, but she was still involved in the business. And so she had absolutely gave herself a job pretty much. Yeah. And she slowly, you know, she left out of it was her decision, but it was not, I would say it was an easy decision for her. And I don't think it was something that she initially wanted to do. So she was always of the mindset, especially with her two, you know, daughters involved. She said, I am never going to do that again. You know, if, if we lose majority, we're selling the business. So when we continue, they should teach you that in business. They should, right? I know. It's one of the things that I feel like, especially whenever I do panels, like business panels, talking about, you know, how to raise money and like how to even work with investors and, you know, brands who are looking to invest because you also want the right investors on board. It's not just about people throwing money at you. And we've always been of the mindset. It's like the last thing you want to do is raise money when you're desperate, right? Because then you're like, I'll just take money from anyone, anybody versus, you know, for us over the, over the years, we've worked with people who we've genuinely have good relationship with who have the mindset of, you know, they still want the founders to, to lead and, and to have majority and have our best interests in mind. It's good that you were able to maintain control because I think that's a very important lesson that your, your mom learned. And then you guys were able to take a lot of tidbits of information from that so that you didn't have to repeat the same mistakes. It's also a freedom thing. Like entrepreneurs in general, I think, like if I got asked to stay around at a company, it would be prison because I don't have that. I don't have it where I need it. Like if I have to report to somebody or attend a board meeting or put together a PDF or a bunch of people aren't going to read it like that, that's not me. Like I would just be like, fuck this, take the money. I don't want it. That's me though. That's like a me thing. But you have to know, like most entrepreneurs are built the same way where it's like, you don't want to, you did this to avoid the boss scenario. And now you've given yourself a boss, but it's common. A lot of people make that mistake. Do you guys ever get flack? Do people ever say like, oh, your mom did this thing and you guys are like the face of it? Yeah, I feel like when we, especially when we first launched the brand, and listen, I was 17 years old. So I was in my 11th year of high school. I obviously had very little idea how to launch a business or how to launch a brand. I was very passionate and knew new sticks so well because that was essentially our baby. But I wasn't going to pretend like I launched this business all by myself because that's just not the case, right? I'm so lucky that my mom was able to take our vision and bring it to life with her knowledge of business and her expertise in product development. And I think a lot of young women or even men who are looking to start a business at a very young age, one of the things that I definitely learned over time is firstly, it's so important to have a mentor who can really help you lead and help you make really difficult decisions. I think as a young leader as well, you encounter things like whether it's employees who aren't working out and building a team. I would say building a team is one of the most difficult things you can do just because when you're first in hyper growth mode, you're just filling roles, right? You're not as conscious or as picky when it comes to the level of quality or the quality of people. You're just like, oh my god, we're growing so fast. I need someone in the seat right now to just execute. As we've grown, we've been able to actually hire quality people who are very aligned with our brand as well. And I think that's also created a really nice environment to work in. And also being a young leader, it's really hard for people to take you seriously, right? Like if you're sitting in board meetings or if you're sitting with retailers, I always called it this kind of imposter syndrome back in the day because I'd be 17 years old and I'd be sitting in a board meeting or with retailers and I'd have to put on my hat and say, okay, we're going to fake it till we make it and kind of have this almost blind confidence in a way, which obviously now is not as much the case, but it's definitely talented. Do you still deal with that or no? Or less? I would say I definitely still have a little bit of imposter syndrome, especially when I travel and I kind of have to put on my hat when I'm working with influencers or even doing things like this. And I'm like, okay, I'm in business mode. I'm in nudes ticks mode versus when I go home. I feel like when I'm with my friends, I'm a little bit of a different person. So yeah, definitely have that for sure. The way I look at it is like, it doesn't matter what you're doing in business or who you're with or even how you got started because you had to do a lot of things right to remain and to be where your company is today. Because I have businesses or friends on all spectrums of this where it's like some started from nothing. Some have parents that have literally paved the way. And in this, it's interesting how it's like we judge these humans, but we shouldn't because the fact that they're still in business five, six, seven years later is a testimony to their ability to remain in business. And it's not easy, right? And so you're talking about a lot of the things that you've learned, and it's like, that's what it takes. And it doesn't matter where you start. It really has nothing to do with it. It's not like one is worse than the other has everything to do with, do you stay? Well, it's funny that you said that because I used to feel very self-conscious if that's the right word because of the way the brand started, right? Because my mom was such a pivotal player and still is to this day of brand growth. And so I've always felt almost indebted to that and maybe not as confident in my position because maybe I never felt like I truly earned this, right? You know, I think a lot of entrepreneurs, you know, if they do start something or maybe have money upfront or didn't start from nothing, right? Feel like, oh my God, like I didn't grow this from the ground up. Like I don't technically earn, you know, this role or this position or where I am today because maybe I didn't work as hard as someone who had built this brand or a business from the ground up. I just say good. I'm like good. Yeah. Like Gary Vee, right? He has like his parents had the wine company. For him to be where he is now, like no one even knows the wine. Who cares about the wine company, you know? And so for you, it's like what you might do in the next 20, 30 years of your life, it'll be the same. It'll go, it goes away over time. Yeah. And then your kids will have a, maybe a different challenge but similar where it's like, oh, my mom built four of these nude stick type companies. But you know what I mean? And so it's almost like, yeah, you got to lean into it a little bit, I think. Yeah. And with that, as we grew personally, all of these new tasks would come along and I'd feel the need to absorb them onto my plate. And Diego has constantly reminded me to delegate, you know, like don't, don't take it all in for yourself. Nick's still learning how to do it. I'm still learning very much so. But like, you know, as our podcast has grown and we've expanded our team, I feel like our roles at both times become more defined. And also you might have to pivot and take on new tasks that we're not there in the future. Like with you and the progression from 17 to where you are now, do you feel like your role has gotten more defined and you're able to more delegate things that, that maybe you shouldn't be doing or that other people are perhaps better at? You know, how do you view that progression? Yeah, I know, I think it's really hard, especially as a brand owner, a brand founder to delegate because, you know, I think we're always in the mind, we're very independent people. And when you do build a brand and, you know, it started with you and maybe one other person, you're very used to doing things on your own. And sometimes definitely have the mentality of, oh, if I just did this myself, it would just get done that much faster. But you've built your team for a reason and you've, you know, surround yourself with amazing people. You need to kind of trust, you need to trust them. And also when you trust your team, you know, they feel more confident in their role as well. And also guiding them. Like I think that's also one of the most difficult parts about leadership is firstly, like trusting your team and communicating. I've had issues communicating as well. And that's also why I wasn't able to delegate as much because I maybe didn't even know what I needed. But when you have a clear idea of like, this is exactly what I need and I need you to bring this to life, then they're also that much more confident and clear and then can execute those things moving forward. So the first conversations always, I think the most difficult. And then after that, you know, you just have to trust that you've hired well and that they're going to do their job well. It's hard. Yeah. All this is hitting home. Let's talk about music. So as you think about 2021, 2022 post COVID, you mentioned everything going remote. Are you guys leaning more into branding with influencers? What is it that's like top of mind for you when it comes to marketing and building your brand? It's funny. I actually just had a podcast earlier today, kind of about the shift in influencer marketing and in social media. Because eight years ago when we launched Nudestix, Instagram was really just starting out. And we were one of the first brands to really just use Instagram as a marketing vehicle. As most brands were either using classic traditional advertorials, so in magazine, billboards, or we're on Facebook. So Instagram pretty much is what Facebook was eight years ago to what TikTok is today. Right? So when we first launched, Instagram was this free platform. It was very authentic, organic, easy to build relationships with influencers because influencers were just looking to build relationships with brands. They're like, oh, I just want to get free product and get exposure and build my following. Now it's a pay to play kind of industry. So it is definitely getting difficult and more expensive, especially with paid ads and SEO. It's getting a lot more competitive. So we're being a little bit more challenged and having to pivot. And I'm only 25 years old and now we're pivoting to TikTok, which we launched in the beginning of COVID when TikTok had its moment. And now I'm asking my sister and her friends, what are the trends on TikTok? Who are these Gen Z influencers that you're following? Which is so strange to me because eight years ago, I was telling people what to do on Instagram as a millennial. So yeah, it's definitely become an interesting time and having to shift our comfort zone. And also when it comes to influencers just being very, very conscious of who we're using and very strategic and who's used the brand before. How authentic is this? Because at the end of the day, it's so saturated and influencers are using new products, having new brand deals every day. Their audience also can see right through it. So it's just finding ways to work with influencers in an authentic way and also kind of change the platforms that we're using. Is the competition like pretty fierce in the beauty world or is it something like where there's space for everyone? It is very fierce for sure. I think what makeup is today is what fragrance was like 10 years ago where every single celebrity is launching a makeup brand. And actually I remember even in fragrance when that happened, a lot of luxurious and prestige fragrance houses lost integrity. The whole industry I think lost integrity and I think it's really difficult right now to compete with makeup brands that have these insane celebrities and influencers attached to them because their following is just so influential. So we're really having to do a lot of grassroots campaigning and really just go back to connecting with our consumer again. One of the things that I've always done as one of the brand founders and faces of the brand would literally just talk to our community, ask them questions, listen to what they want because at the end of the day that's what will differentiate us between all these other brands because brands can replicate your product, brands can replicate your philosophy, but brands can't replicate us as founders. So making sure that we're still at the forefront of that communication. How do you guys do that? How do you guys build community? So we have a few ways. I'm like, well, let me tell you. So firstly through social, right? Like I will create content for our community, whether that's through like stories or lives or responding to DMs. We just recently did a pop-up in LA on Melrose and we invited our community to come and shop Newt Sticks, IRL and really kind of give- You didn't go pop up here? You could have done it right here. I know. Now I know that you guys have a storefront here. Next time. Exactly. All right, so you do a bunch of events. Yeah. So events, we also have just like exclusive kind of like virtual experiences for our community. Even over COVID, we were very quick to kind of like adapt to this new virtual lifestyle. So it was like hosting virtual events and, you know, with exclusive like with makeup artist and with influencers and hosting like meet and greets. And during when COVID first hit, I know everyone was kind of like exhausted of all the lives that were going on, but I did a live like every day because I knew my customers were just like sitting at home and maybe, you know, dealing with anxiety or stress or, you know, maybe out of work. So I did like a live for an hour a day just to kind of talk to everybody. Did like wellness virtual events. So like things like that where it's more holistic than just makeup. Do you know, I think Iris Palmer is her name? Yeah. Given how closely she is with the Kardashians, is it easy for her to get to work with other brands? Like, does she do that or does she just stay loyal to this family? Well, it's interesting because like we've worked with celebrity makeup artist and stylist that do work with the Kardashians. And I think for them, like they're so used to being behind the scenes that it is difficult to work with brands or kind of now be this face or this influence. But no, we definitely work with, you know, those types of people just because they do have that credibility because they do work with like these, you know. We're speaking to her in a few weeks. Oh, are you? Nice. For the bright, we do this live session. And I'm like, I'm always curious about that. You know, it's like, do they have to remain in their lane or are they open to working with whatever is happening in the beauty industry? Because in some ways they have to do that. In some ways they have to remain sort of on top of it all. But I don't know, sometimes their loyalty keeps them sort of bucketed to certain products. Yeah. I mean, I think it depends on who you work for. I know that a celebrity artist that we used to work with, her name is Mary Phillips, and she's the makeup artist for like Kim and Kendall. Now she does a lot of J-Lo, but she'd never had an exclusivity with anything. Like she can use any product she wanted to. And I do know that based on conversations I've heard and people I've talked to, the Kardashians are like very good at like allowing you to kind of like work with brands. And obviously like these artists are still very supportive of them, but they also, you know, have their own independent career. Here's a very LA story for you. So we lived in this building two years ago. And I would always see this like really small woman like just in a black hoodie outside, basically at my window. And then she'd come in and her esthetician was our neighbor. Okay. And it was Kim Kardashian. And like Kanye would drop her off some days. She would come in and I would be like, I think this is like, I'd be on, I'd be outside. We have a little, we had a little patio, like a window with a patio. So I'd be outside like sunbathing essentially. And she'd be like right there, right where you are. And I was like, I think this is Kim Kardashian. So weird. Nobody like no bodyguards, no paparazzi just getting out of a car. There was a guy, I'm pretty sure it was Kanye dropped off a couple times. And then her mom came the second time. And it was like every Tuesday she was doing this thing. And what I would notice is she would leave and was decked out when she would leave after maybe three hours, like full wardrobe, full makeup. And they're all of a sudden be paparazzi now. Right. And so they would be capturing her as she was leaving. And then like after two months, she came out with esthetician. And so it was like giving her the press. Same thing. And it was like, what is happening? It was like the weirdest thing. Well, you know, they call and alert them. This is the time that you want to be there. They don't tell them when they arrive. I learned that. I was like, oh, this isn't really, they're not really being followed that much at all, actually. Well, if you think about it, like how would the paparazzi find them? I mean, I'm not sure where you live. But they make a way too. Like they would be, it was the weirdest thing where the paparazzi would be out there for an hour or an hour and a half just waiting. I used to work at a production company. It was the same production company that did the Kardashians. And so they had this interview building. And it was always like, you knew when the Kardashians were also filming there because like an hour beforehand, the paparazzi would start lining up across the street. And it was always this like, I don't know if it was like a written rule or unwritten, but they would have to stay across the street and could not cross until the Kardashians got there. And even then it was like this big pomp and circumstance event where Kendall or Kim or Chris would pull up in whatever nice car that they were in. This was when I think Tyga was also involved in that family. So he would pull up as well. And then all of a sudden the paparazzi would swarm across the street. But it was always like they got out of that car. It was probably after leaving the esthetician. And you know, they were fully made up, ready to go, like prepared to face the paparazzi. It was this big event for them. I cannot imagine having to get that done up every single day. Like to be photographed. It's exhausting. Like I feel for them in a way. I also will say like seeing her without makeup quite the transformation. I was like, oh my God, if people saw you. Yeah. That's why the paparazzi aren't there at the beginning. Right. And that's why she's wearing her hoodie. I mean, we talked about so far, like the progression of makeup trends in the country and back from, you know, your grandmother's day in age. And even now, like the, you know, Hillary Clinton taking 25 days of makeup, Kim taking three hours to do her makeup. Where do you see the industry trending towards in the future? Like where do you see the shifts coming? Because you talked about even eight years ago. What do you want it to go? Yeah. As someone who's literally, to some extent, you have influence. You can kind of control. Yeah. Well, it's interesting because, well, I think COVID has accelerated this, but minimalism in all aspects of life. Right. So we like to call it almost the Mary Condo. Are you familiar with Mary Condo? Yeah. Yeah. Keep whatever sparks joy. And if it doesn't, you know, remove it from your life. It could be beauty. It can be furniture, fashion, people. I'm just kidding. Hey, that's true. It can be people. Yeah. It can be people. It's easy. So I think that the trend of minimalism is here to stay. Just because, you know, especially with COVID, I think we've identified what aspects of life are important and what we really, truly need. I would say that, you know, there's so many trends that come and go. There's so many trends that are recycled over the years and also come back. Like think about, you know, right now we're having a huge surge in Y2K trends, right? So early 2000s are all coming back right now, whether it's like low waisted jeans, really thin brows, lip liner, like all of that is coming back. And I'm like, not mad about it, but I'm also kind of mad about it because the Gen Z community is only bringing back like the really good trends of early 2000, not like the layers of clothing. Like, I don't know if you watched any of the red carpet, like of like early 2000s, but like a lot of these celebrities would wear like 10 layers of clothes. They would wear like a t-shirt and then the tank top on top. And then they'd wear like shorts and a skirt on top. It was kind of insane. For me, what I would love to see moving forward is really that and really this like the beauty community really adopting the whole concept of like less is more and really enhancing what they have and feeling good and feeling confident in their natural beauty. And I also kind of see a trend towards men, male cosmetics as well. I think we're all seeing a few, you know, celebrity, male celebrities from Pharrell who just launched skincare. And then you have, I think like A-Rod is launching like men cosmetics shortly. Yeah, A-Rod getting into the beauty world. Listen, every single person, sorry. Will you guys get into the men's skincare world or the men beauty world? So, Newt Styx is fairly gender neutral, but I know to most men it's not the case. And it's interesting because my boyfriend and I talk about this a lot because, you know, whether it's because he wants to cover up a pimple or he always talks about how intimidating it is to walk into a beauty retailer. So even if, you know, Sephora does carry a male cosmetic line, it's very, very rare that, you know, a male who doesn't necessarily wear makeup will walk into a retailer like that. But I do think that there will be a shift towards men wearing makeup, but there needs to be a brand that makes it feel really masculine. So I kind of picture like a Jason Momoa as the ambassador. Specimen. Interesting. Yeah. Specimen. My wife was just with him, oddly enough. Really? My wife went to the premiere of 007. Wow. And she was like, I'm here with Jason Momoa. She's like, wow. Wow, just wow. That's it. You're like, thank you very much. Pretty crazy. Yeah. Yeah, I was like, that's his specimen. Did it make you want to start hitting the gym? No, no. He's like, if I were next one, I'd be like, wow. Yeah. Like it's like, I don't have that. I don't have that. I'm just like, you are an amazing looking human. Yeah. That's interesting. So I was thinking like when I was in high school, my sister, if I had a pimple, like she'd easily go grab her cover up and just put it on my face. And I didn't think anything of it. I was like, thanks. That was very helpful of you. But if I didn't have the sister. I did not. And I can tell you that I did not have that access. She was older and it wasn't like a choice thing. She would just do it. I wasn't like, hey, can you help me? It was like, you're not going to school like that. I was like, oh, thanks. As you have or are talking to the private equity firms, what is on like, what are the metrics for growth now? Is it more stores? Like what are the things that you guys are leaning into? Yeah. So I would say, obviously it's having a diverse distribution is really important. So for us, we have a variety of retailers globally. So in the US, we have Sephora, Alta, Macy's, Bloomingdale's. In Europe, we have multiple retailers as well from like large department stores like Selfridges to, you know, Douglas. Great store. Great store. It's my favorite retailer in the world. And, you know, a few, you know, new retailers in Canada as well, Shoppers Drug Mart, which is one of our biggest retailers. Shoppers Drug Mart. Yes. Interesting. Shoppers Drug Mart. Doesn't sound that cool. It does not. No, it's, it's really not that cool. It's, but it's convenient. You know, people like convenient. Maybe that's like our CVS. It is kind of, it is actually exactly like your CVS, but they have more of a prestige beauty boutique as well. Good. So they have both. It's a little bit more of an elevated CVS. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, but similar to a CVS because it has the pharmacy. So more distribution. More distribution, really looking to our digital business. So this year has been the year of digital growth. So we just, we're actually relaunching our own Ecom site, nudesticks.com in a month from now. So we've been spending the past six months redesigning our entire site. We're redesigning our affiliate program or redesigning our loyalty program as well. So really honing in on our own community, right? Because at the end of the day, like, you know, you are, you know, zero margins when it comes to your own site, really owning your customer as well is really important. So increasing our subscriber base, increasing our database. Do you guys text your customers? We do. You do. We have SMS. We obviously have like your, you know, traditional, like email subscription as well. You see, you have a monthly subscription that they can sign up for where they just get shipped products or whatever they might need. We don't, but that's also something that we want to get into just because it's a really great way for us to look at SKUs that are maybe selling as fast as our core SKUs and kind of create this like loss leader subscription box, right? Where it's like $10 a month, you get like five to 10 products and it's maybe it's a surprise. Maybe there's a theme to it similar to, you know, boxes that exist today, whether it's ipsy or birch box or this birch box still exists. I don't know. I don't think so. So yeah, that's kind of what's really important, I think, to brands and I think brands that, you know, will be very interested in nude sticks are brands that also do have a really big digital footprint because they're going to be very interested in our distribution because we do exist in over 30 countries globally. And so that's like, there's so much opportunity outside of North America. Is there anything about your customers that have surprised you? I think the most surprising thing was when we're launching new markets. So one of my favorite things to do was to travel, whether it was India or Southeast Asia or, you know, Australia or Europe. And I would meet with our customers and it doesn't matter where you are in the world. They would say the exact same thing to us. They would say, I'm a mom. I love nudes sticks because it's easy and fast and it makes me feel like the best version of myself. Or, you know, I'm a student and I'm doing my makeup on the go on my way to school every day and I love how easy it is and compact and, you know, everyone had a story and why it made their life easy. And I think that's very rare because not only does it transcend generations, but it also transcends where you are in the world and where you live and culturally, right? Because the culture here, you know, in the West is very different than the East. And the fact that, you know, the woman is so similar globally is also, it's really nice, especially since, you know, on the news, I mean, the past few years, like, all they talk about is how different we all are, right? But as, and I know it's, it's beauty and it's makeup and it's not serious, right? Or as serious. But when you have a community of people globally that have this same ideology and, and love the brand for similar reasons, it really just goes to show how similar, you know, as people we are. So that's one of my, my favorite things. I would think it would also help reaffirm that's your market. That's what you're solving for. And there's a universality to it. Like you said, it transcends class, location, all that good stuff. And I would think help you narrow and hone in on where you're trying to take the company and how you can reach more people with that same message going forward. Yeah, exactly. And just the importance of, you know, I think there's so many brands over the past year that have had to pivot and like have really altered the way they speak to their customer is because of trend or because of where the world is going. But something we've been able to do is be really, really consistent with our messaging and philosophy so that we're not alienating our customer or we're the same, you know, brand and we have the same philosophy as we did eight years ago. So I think that's really important and also contributes to sustaining yourself as a brand. Well, thanks for coming on the podcast. Well, thank you for having me. Tell everyone where they can find you. Oh, you can find us at sephoranewtsticks.com. Thanks, Taylor. Well, thanks, Taylor. Appreciate it. Thank you.