 Satguru, it's an absolute pleasure to be with you here today. I have a large audience. I have a mic I have no time limit. I have not been on air for three months. I'm completely starved They've told me to have a conversation with you and there are some of my guests who come on my program who have been Probably missing this. It's wonderful to be with you. It's I have spent some time with you one-on-one in the past We've had conversations The one thing which I've always found about you is that you're you're so normal you're so See this is a I do a news program you're turning this to an entertainment show can I please proceed You're a wonderful person because I find you straight I find you direct I I don't find you pretentious I think you speak so much common sense You say so many deep things in a very understandable way Which explains your popularity and why so many people have turned up this evening to listen to you I was told that the theme of rotary has been success service and spirituality We'll try and start off by talking about that and you can take it forward from that What is more important success service or spirituality choose one of them if you're Whether you do spirituality or service You want success in that also you want to be successful because the very purpose of any human activity Whether it's something small that you do or something large that you do Something very simple As hitting a ball you want to be successful. You don't want to do it in a goofy way Even if you blow your nose and want to throw the tissue into the bin you want to be successful I'm saying something so silly Also, you want to be successful the biggest all human activity This means Everybody else say you're doing things You Or what happens when a person is individually successful, but at the cost of others I I personally often think that people turn to spirituality as An alternative to their own success because they feel guilty about their own success and want to make up for it through spirituality Let's understand what is spiritual process if you're thinking in terms of Spiritual process means you look heavenward. No This has been cultured These things we've picked up in the last few centuries. Otherwise, it did not exist in this country of looking up Oopavala doing things This is a huge problem which I'm trying to change dramatically now If little things go wrong in your life, you find one little person there and think it's because of him If big things go wrong in your life, you find that big guy there and you think it's because of him This guy is absent. It's time to bring this guy into account He's been black, you know unaccounted man for too long Small things this guy big things that guy. What about this guy? It is time my endeavor is to move people from religion to responsibility because spiritual process means this What you're referring to as spirit is That which is the basis of your body When I say that which is the basis of your body You were not born like this. You came with such a small one and now you become like this If you put a banana into this it becomes the same kind of body if you put a chapati into this It becomes the same body. So there is an intelligence and a dimension within us Which builds you from within? How how can any human being? No life Without addressing this dimension. What is sitting in the hook right now in advertisement? About the leather about the woodwork systems does it being paint work That you just live with your body and your work and leather Without taking if you want success very normal for human intelligence to question Because you see people dying every day somewhere or the other Okay, when I folded what? Beyond this body what before this body what is it not a very normal question, but Because they messed you up telling you oh you came from heaven and you'll go back to heaven and this what will happen That's what about things that they don't have a clue. Everybody's talking with authority Because of this now it looks like somebody has to guide you towards spiritual process if you bring up your children without a single advice If you're capable of that, it's very difficult believe me You know when when my daughter was just three and a half months old she was traveling with me One hand on her and my right leg is always full down And I drove across the country and she grew up like this with me till she's five till she went to school Every day we are in a different home staying with all kinds of people. Everybody wants to teach us something. I Said one rule is nobody will teach her anything no ABC no one two three No, Mary had a little lamb because I don't care whether Mary had a lamb or not So you won't believe nobody thought or anything by the time she's 18 months She fluently speaks three languages because she's all years because nobody talks to her She just grasps everything around her because nobody's teaching her anything and She grew up like this and when she was 12 13 years of age one day she came up to me she just came back from school disturbed about something there and She said you're teaching everybody so many things. You're not telling me anything I said, well, I don't do anything unsolicited here. You come now. Let's see So this is all you need to know. So what I want to know is how human you are Let me tell you this is how you Know I want to know I want to know How human you are so because and the reason I'm asking you this is because very often We want to be guided by people who we feel have transcended the insecurities of Humanity, so I want to know whether you're scared of something I Want to know whether you experience fear and I would also like to know whether you have attachments Can we start with the first let me finish this This is not news hour. Okay, when I'm when I'm telling you an answer you can't ask me another question I'll get back I'll get back and not we're not it in Republic either You're making a cardinal mistakes In 2014 I met a young man called Rahul Gandhi. Oh, I don't know why anyone's laughing again He too interrupted me like you did I got back later. Please continue, but you'll have to answer my question later Please go ahead. Do you have you have a different package here? So I will come to that. I'm very much going towards that So the girl comes to me and says this then I say see this all you have to know Never look up to anybody She looks at me. What about you kind of thing? I Said not even me never look up to anybody Never look down on anybody. This is all the teaching If you don't look up to anything if you don't look down on anything You will see everything just the way it is If you see everything just the way it is you will navigate your life effortlessly That's all it takes Now how human am I? You just now use the word human and almost everybody everywhere I go. They use the word human Always referring to the limitations of being human never talking about the immensity of being human Oh, I'm only human, but why are you not saying I'm human you're on top. You're the top species on the planet You're supposed to be in the top of the pile of all the species. Why people are saying I am only human is Because they are suffering themselves like no other creature Not an ant or an elephant Suffers themselves as human beings do the stomach is full. They're fine For a human being stomach empty only one problem stomach full one hundred problems The reason is this an evolutionary thing It's an evolutionary thing that What you call as your cerebral flower this brain is new to you, you know the evolutionary scale of things It is a new happening this intellect and Most people have not figured how to handle it They're not suffering the world They're suffering their own thought and emotion most of the time Why is it your education systems did not even teach you how to handle your thought how to handle your emotion? Now the moment you say you're human or not first thing the next question somebody will ask is Can I pull a gold chain from thin air? Can I do something else or can I pull out a rabbit from the vessel Or can I pull a pigeon out of my pocket? If I pull a pigeon out of pocket my pocket. What will you have? You will have a bird. I'll have a shitty pocket This is not going to change anybody's lives. I will show you a miracle. I Will show you people who have who are full-on activity not people who are sitting in some cave Full-on activity. All right, 20 hours a day seven days of the week. We're all on I'll show you people for five ten fifteen years They have not had a moment of anger agitation irritation nothing. They live joyfully blissfully This is the miracle the world wants This is the miracle the humanity needs if this happens to you You will not refer to human as a limitation. You will talk about human as a huge possibility My question my question was about you whether you need to transcend a few things I personally think it's all right. It's good. It's good to feel fear. It's good to have insecurities It's good to be attached But what we have constantly told is to be guilty about fear to be worried about expressing or being open about That's multiplying the problem. No, you have fear. No, you have Listen to you. I still watch news hour. So what can I do? This doesn't usually happen Well, okay, so You've made me forget my question my point was that we are constantly told To be to to be embarrassed about our insecurities Right, we are told not to have attachments We are constantly told that in our lives and in our own Hindu philosophies and other philosophies to lose attachments. I Want to know why this is necessary, which is why I asked you because you were described as an enlightened soul Which I know you are I asked you whether an Enlightened soul like you feels insecurity Experiences attachment say Why this has come up is because people have a selective sense of involvement This is what I said when I said do not look up to anything look do not look down on anything This is because if you look up to anything something you will exaggerate If you look down on something you will exaggerate the negative The moment you look up to something you will get attached to it The moment you look down on something you will get dejected by it in some way disgust will come So these these emotions of fear insecurity attachment detachment everything is a consequence Shall we handle the source or shall we handle the consequence people are always busy handling the consequence They're telling you trim your fear. Can you fear trim it? No way is it going to work now you're flipping on the other side and saying we need not be ashamed of it Let's have it. Is it a pleasant experience. I'm asking Is fear in security guilt whatever is it a pleasant experience if it's a pleasant experience keep it It's up to you if it's an unpleasant experience. Is it a choice? I Am asking you just this much in the world around us. What happens? It's a different issue World will never happen 100% the way you want it Even if you're just two people in the family Still it doesn't happen 100% the way you want it if it's 51% your way. You are the boss, okay? More than that won't happen But what happens within you must happen your way, isn't it if what happens within you happened your way Would you keep this blissful or would you keep this fearful or miserable or whatever? You wouldn't do that to yourself. Isn't it? At least for yourself you want the highest level of pleasantness though what you want for your neighbor may be debatable But what you want for yourself is very clear, isn't it? So it's okay to have fear. It's okay to be insecure No, I didn't it's okay to be attached and and I'm asking you if you had a choice And what about what about ego Sadguru? Fear in security attachment and ego these are the four things Sadguru that we are told to get rid of over a period of time We are told that as you grow older and you learn more in life. You must learn to give away all but me. Who is your guru? Why should I reveal No, but this is a fact. This is what we are told. Is it is it necessarily the truth? Let's go one at a time the ego Everybody's talking about this right now We know any human being for that matter if they do something wonderful, they'll say I did it If they do something nasty, it was my ego So Mr.. Ego is a fall guy whenever you turn nasty. He's always there, but when you do good things, it's of course you, isn't it? I'm saying let's become straight with life That sometimes you're wonderful sometimes you're nasty sometimes you're joyful sometimes you're miserable. This is your reality right now You don't need a fall guy this much Sincerity we must bring into our lives that what happens from within me is me and nobody else but me If you come to this much Now if you see you're fearful or you're miserable or you're frustrated or you're depressed if you see it's all because of me Would you not want to change it? Would you not want to change it? 100% now I want to change it how? Now you're asking for tools That is why I'm here just giving you tools for transformation because tools are important in human life As human beings we are dominating The planet only because of our ability to use tools Otherwise probably a colony of ants or a pack of dogs could dominate human species, but we can use tools The power of tools is such right now if I ask you to unscrew a little screw in this furniture You may lose all your nails. It'll not come out. You may lose some of your teeth It'll not come out if I give you a little screwdriver. It'll come out So similarly to handle the inner dimensions. There are tools These tools this is the USP of this country, which is all messed up right now That people have not presented it properly if I give you tools for transformation The only thing is to learn to use the tools. That's all You don't have to believe any philosophy. You don't have to add to any ideology You don't have to look heavenward because you don't know in which direction it is People are looking up after all you're sitting on a round planet and the damn thing is spinning all the time If you look up, you're obvious inevitably looking up in the wrong direction Satguru two simple questions one is When you experienced what you said sitting on a rock and experience enlightenment we spoke about it once you described it to me Please don't think it's absurd question. Why did it happen to you and doesn't it happen to others a? what did you experience and What do others have to go through to go through that experience? Are you blessed in a different way? Why did nobody else go through that experience? Everyone seeks it Everyone is not seeking it nor was I seeking it. I was not seeking it Tell me about I must give you some background When I was just Four four and a half years of age. I suddenly realized that I don't know anything. I Don't know anything means. I don't know anything at all to such an extent if somebody gives me a glass of water I would be simply staring at the water for hours on end. I Know what is water in terms of how I can use it, but I don't know what it is Even today we don't know what it is With all this scientific exploration. We still do not know what a single atom is We know how to break it. We know how to use it. We know how to fuse it, but we don't know what it is So if I saw a leaf, I'm just staring at a staring at it for five six hours I sit up in my bed and I'm staring at the darkness for the entire night My dear father being a physician Things that I need psychiatric evaluation you also beginning to think So he's worried this boy is simply staring at something all the time my problem is I Looked at this and I don't know what this is. I'm not able to shift my attention to another one What is this? What is that? What is that? What is that by the time? I'm five. I'm a billion questions And nobody seems to know anything initially. They were all comfortable. I thought they all know only I don't know Then slowly I realized they have made a deal with their ignorance Ignorance they've made a deal with their ignorance. They all decided this how it is. We don't know you don't know It's okay. We'll all pretend everything is fine. I couldn't make a deal with my ignorance So I just sat there staring at everything in this condition they sent me to school My mother said you must pay attention to the teacher. I Went and paid attention to the teacher The kind of attention the teacher would have never received in their life Initially, I heard their words and sort of understood what they were trying to say But after a while I realized they are only making sounds This will be very useful They're only making sounds. I am making up the meaning in my head When I realized they're just you know hour after hour teacher after teacher they come and make sounds make sounds and make sounds I am making up meanings and meanings and meanings then I realized this and I stopped making meanings I just paid attention to the sounds after some time it became so amusing a big smile spread on my face But they were not amused Things continued like this about eight nine years ago this school where I studied over 45 or 50 years ago They came to invite me for their 125th anniversary. I said see why me because I was not just a bad student I was not even a student. I only went there and when it was a must They said no no our school has produced union ministers our school has produced test cricketing stars Film stars, you're the only mystic you have to come So I went So I go up there go there and stand up in the quarter angle To speak and I look around same oppressive buildings Then I look like this this classroom suddenly it reminds me I'm 12 years of age And those days I wouldn't speak speak for many days at a time because when you don't know anything what to say So one afternoon the teacher is trying to get a response from me. He's asked a question and he's asked Waiting for a response. I Simply look at him. I Say nothing. He can't make out anything of me And after some time I don't even see him. It's like that for me. I know he's past present and future But I don't hear what he's saying After 35 40 minutes of this effort he got so mad with me He came and held me by the shoulder shook me violently like this and said you must either be the divine or the devil I think you're the later. I was not insulted by this or abused by this My problem was what is this? What is that? What is that? What is that? One certainty was there. This is me Suddenly this guy confused me about this also. I looked Is this divine is this devil? What the hell is this? I thought this is me. This was okay. Till then Suddenly I didn't know what is this So I tried to stare at myself. It didn't work. So I started closing my eyes what was minutes then many two hours went into days and That is my spirituality And then I by the time I'm 15 I'm almost ready to leave home for an armed struggle. These are the days of Charumajumdar and Somaloo and I want to leave because any anything that I perceive is injustice my My stomach burns. So I want to rush a bunch of boys. All of us want to leave and join armed struggle Then when I got very close to them, then I saw they were Unfortunately, not what they were talking So I kind of stepped back Then I became a super skeptic. I grew up in the Starsky Kamu Kafka this kind of stuff Skeptical about everything but One thing was eating me that is this billions of questions and they started growing the number of questions went on growing as my Intellect grew No answer Then the only answer I found was to travel. So initially I cycled across South India Then I motorcycled across India Chris crossed India many times all over the place then When I was 19 plus, I just you know, I've been riding since I was 11 without a license But by 18 the day I became 18. I went and got my license within a week's time So suddenly I thought I'm super empowered. I can go where I want Then I came to Nepalese border And then they stopped me and they asked for a passport. I didn't know what it is You won't believe I was nearly 20 19 at least. I did not know what is a passport. I did not I thought my license will get me everywhere Then that was a kind of a realization. I thought okay. Oh, I can't cross these lines So I went back determined to get myself a passport and some money so that I'll travel forever Because the only thing that cooled me down from these questions was I was moving I Rode across the country alone by myself simply not going anywhere in particular I saw India like very few people would have seen India in a completely different way I just walked into villages just knocked on a door and said I'm hungry and they fed me without asking my name where I come from Sometimes I was tired. So I slept in their homes next day morning. I left without asking their name who they are But that imagery those people those emotions that stuff I Think it hugely enriched my life on the terrain I can run that terrain that I've seen thousands of kilometers of terrain is like a video in my mind I can just run it in my mind and just enjoy India just like that Not some great monuments or something just a tree an outcrop of rock at this or that like that This is how I remember everything because I never think in words even today I think only in pictures and images not in words I think that's what keeps me very very entertained by everything that I do So then I thought I should make some money and got into business They came far more successful than people would expect in a short period of time And Everybody started clapping clapping their hands. You're doing great and wonderful but I Was doing all this to get away from everything But as success came, you know, you I try to put one finger then all the five fingers went then all the ten fingers went It'll go right up till here. I Think those highly successful business days probably was the most wasted days of my life because There was no exploration. I did variety of things I started half a dozen small businesses, which all started growing which people would think is success But I when I look back and see those six years of my life are probably The least creative part of my life. Why why did you do it? I thought I'll make money and right away. Why do you want to make money to ride to ride? Yeah to fill the gas To put gas in the tank all the time Because right from the age of 12 13. I've been riding cycles across South India after that I've been on the motorcycle. I don't know how to You need gas so I thought I need money to really go away So it cut me up and then one afternoon And you know it's in Mysore City. How many of you are familiar with Mysore City? There's a little hill called Chamundi Hill There is a tradition in Mysore at least there was at that time for the youth If we fall out we have to go up Chamundi Hill If you have nothing to do we went up Chamundi Hill So that afternoon between two business meetings, I just had about an hour and a half Without even thinking I just rode up Chamundi Hill. I Have camped there. I have trek this hill right from my childhood. I know this too well So I parked my motorcycle climbed up and sit on that now famous rock, but I'm telling you the rock is not special It's like the Bodhi tree the tree became more famous in the Buddha So I just went and sat there my eyes were still open and Suddenly I did not know which is me and which is not me till that moment. It was always very clear. This is me That is somebody else. I have no issue with that somebody, but this is me and that somebody else Suddenly I did not know which is me and which is not me What was me was just everywhere the very rock upon which I was sitting there that I was breathing the atmosphere around me Everything had become me. I Thought this madness lasted for about ten fifteen minutes, but when I came back to my normal state It was about four and a half hours My eyes were still open for the very first time in my adult life tears me and tears were impossible. I lived like this, but tears to a point my shirt is all wet and Every cell in my body is bursting with ecstasy When I shook my skeptical head and asked what is happening to me the only thing that my mind could tell me was maybe you're going off your rocker Then when I shared with my closest friend something is happening to me. It's too fantastic That I come on. What did you drink? What did you pop? I saw there was nobody around me Nor anything in my mind to tell me what's happening to me All I knew was I've hit something which is a gold mine, and I don't want to miss it for a moment And I just discovered this If I just sit here without messing with my thought process and my emotion my entire system will burst out in ecstasy and A few days later. I made a plan Because I thought I'm the first one to discover this at that time because I had no spiritual I'm not acquainted with spiritual traditions. I've never had a scripture in my life till today. I've never prayed to anybody or anything Not have I attended any spiritual discourses or anything? So I thought this is the first time I know and I made a plan in two and a half to three years time I'm going to make the entire world ecstatic See 35 years Well, we have touched 150 to 200 million people, but that is not my idea of the world Slowly, you know these days I've become wise Now I realize so many people have so seriously Invested in their misery. They are not going to withdraw their investment so easily It needs so much coaxing and casualing and life knocking them on their head so many things need to happen to them Or you have to threaten them with death Otherwise they will not withdraw their investments even though it is causing Enormous pain and suffering to them. They are not willing to withdraw their investments in misery So slowly we are working. I know I will die a failure, but a blissful failure I've made a mistake My mistake is that I'm constructing a studio for our Channel Republic. I constructed it in lower, Parel Can you tell me the way to Chamundi Hill, please? I Want to build my studios in Chamundi Hill and also experience ecstasy every moment I don't know about my I can make it happen in wherever you are This is fascinating life changed after that The most important thing is The perception of who I am changed I'm not talking the idea of why the perception of why I I Went up the hill as a smart young man very cocky and Confident about everything. I came down as real nothing Just nothing means nothing was left in me. I I remember that moment. I Came down around seven forty five eight. It happens to be a Saturday evening we are in a construction industry and Saturday evening is the time when we give out Labor to everybody in front of our office. There are some five hundred people waiting and My partner I come and park my motorcycle and I still got the engine revving And I look in and my partner looks out and he can't believe on a Saturday evening. I'm not there He just looks at me like this. I just looked at this entire scene This is something we built built means like every day from morning five to eleven in the night non-stop I was on sites building this company I just looked at the expression on my partner's face. He just looked quizzically. What are you up to? Why are you not here kind of look on his face? And I looked at all these people who are was waiting in lines for money. The cashiers were giving out money. I Engaged the gear and I left that was my end of my business Then I loitered around the town because I didn't want to go home. I Didn't want to face my mother Because suddenly she was no more my mother Somewhere I was little struggling with that. I knew when I went to went home I wouldn't look at her as I would have looked as I have looked at her for the last 25 years. I Didn't go there till 11 30 in the night. I wanted her to go to bed But our mothers are such she's still waiting I put my head down and went and said I'm not hungry and I went and locked in my myself in the room because Though something so fantastic was happening. I was still struggling between the two worlds everything that I considered as myself till that moment was gone and Suddenly I look at people It's indescribable Because so many things that you're involved in it's like you almost died. I think this is how it must feel when you're dead So many things you think this is it. This is this is it, but tomorrow morning poop the man disappears Nothing Doesn't matter you cry. Well, he doesn't respond. He's completely gone Just like that. I was completely gone the person that I was was just gone Sadguru you meet a lot of interesting people. Who is the most self-aware or the most enlightened human being you've met a lot of people around me Names and why? Usually they are not famous names simple people Avoiding my question. No, I'm not. There must be some See the most fantastic human beings on the planet are usually not well-known Because getting known in the world is a different business Being wonderful within you is a different business. I'm doing everything possible to marry these two What do you think about the state of the nation? See we must understand that as ancient we are as a nation The idea of a modern nation has not really sunk into everybody's minds. I believe the way you have named your new venture In some way you want the idea to sink into people's minds because the nation is not some God-given thing it is something that exists in People's minds and hearts It's just an idea that we enshrine in pursuit of common well-being But it goes somewhere all together over a period of time people start thinking it is the thing That's not how it is, but it is the thing. It's an important aspect Because nation is the largest segment of humanity that you can address right now If you could address the entire humanity, it would be fantastic, but that's not possible That's not realistic right now. That may be the ideal, but that's not realistic So right now nation is the largest segment of humanity you can address India as a nation is a world by itself So though we have a history of what we call as Bharat or Hindustan, which goes back to 10 12,000 years of history both Though within this Geography we had at certain times over 200 political entities Still we were considered a nation both by people within and those outside also considered this Nation though there were different kings ruling all over the place Why this happened is a unique thing Most nations are all nations are made on the same sameness of something Sameness of language sameness of race sameness of religion some sameness is important We have defined that completely We have never Tried to be same in any sense if you drive 50 kilometers Anywhere in the country every 50 kilometers you meet different kind of people they look different talk different dress different eat different Everything is different about them But still we have been a nation for over 10,000 years without maintaining the sameness I think it's a extremely unique and fantastic happening which we must culture and nurture and preserve What is it that kept us together? Why people outside called as a nation though we were ruled by different entities all the time Fundamental thing is made made as one nation is That every nation in the world believed in something We as a nation never believed in anything We have always been a nation of seekers seekers of truth seekers of liberation today's In today's generation this might have gone out of the present lingo, but it's coming back in some other way In previous generation if you spoke in a day my grandmother wouldn't end a conversation without at least once uttering the word mukti or moksha It was like day-to-day thing It's not like at the end of your life you're thinking mukti or when you go to your spiritual discourse You're thinking mukti. No in day-to-day life in conversations every day mukti mukti Maybe that is why today people are shouting Azadi Azadi Maybe it's coming back in another way But you've heard of the ongoing discussion and freedom of expression and I personally felt pretty outraged last year When a group of people started to make it fashionable to speak against the nation We saw the limits of the debate on freedom of expression last year Sadguru my question to you is in the context of what is happening today We've seen a little bit of that happen once again on the North campus of Delhi University in in your view Why is it becoming fashionable for some people? To run down the nation and then use that as an example of the freedom of expression. I find that hypocrisy. What do you think? Everybody is very freely quoting the Constitution. It is the Constitution of India, which gives you the freedom of speech You must rest on the word India It is the Constitution of India, it is not some divine Constitution which has given you this freedom. It is the Constitution of India, which has given you this freedom The moment you question that Then you have questioned the fundamentals of the making of a nation See religions have their own Constitution The only problem with this Constitution is it's not amendable A nation has a Constitution But if all of us don't like it we could amend it It's not a given by somebody we made it we agreed to it It's an agreement our Constitution in a agreement upon among us So when the freedom of speech was given they put eight restrictions The Indian Constitution puts eight restrictions on human on freedom of speech One fundamental restriction is it should not question the sovereignty of the nation The moment you question it you're questioning the existence of the nation. Where does the Constitution give you freedom? It doesn't make sense So these things are coming from a certain background I'm telling you I went through this when I was 13 14 by the time I was 15. I was ready to pick up the gun Because we were they have fiery talks every day, you know Very insightful. I mean not insightfully a very inciting kind of talks so fired up that you want to do something and When you're young you always think You know Violence is the solution. Those people who are talking about peace. They don't believe in it They believe in violence the moment you talk about breaking up something There is going to be violence whether you like it or you don't like it If you you don't have to go that bar back far in history if you just go back to 1948 When the country was broken Because we didn't have the courage to fix it. We broke it. We're still bleeding half a million people died Endless amount of suffering people went through and still there are colonies both here in this country and that country Which is still not sorted out? Yes, still even properties are not settled 70 years How long do you think is human lifespan? Are we going to live for thousand years that we're going to settle our problems over 70 hundred years? Still both the nations are bleeding when I say bleeding don't think only of the human blood What is the what is the kind of investment we are making in our armed forces? Only because we broke this country, isn't it? Otherwise everything could have been focused on the well-being of the people Just to I mean just I'm not commenting on this just recently when I you know when I was just reading the newspapers I saw 28 billion dollars for a missile defense system from Russia. We're buying we are buying much more But I'm just saying 28 billion dollars when I think about it We could educate every child in the country. We could nourish every child in the country. We could do so much work We could make sure people in this country live well, but we cannot do that right now simply because We broke the nation So if you talk about breaking it further, this will go on for centuries Because breaking will never be clean breaking. It'll not happen like that when you break somebody will be this side Somebody will be that side so much human suffering resentment hatred, which you cannot solve This line that was drawn just sixty seventy years ago Can you believe it is only sixty years the level of hatred we have for each other You can't cure this, isn't it? so Breaking is never a solution. It's better to sort it out Whichever way it comes better to sort it out for that we have a framework, which is called the constitution Constitution we must I'm repeating this is not a divine document It is an agreement between you and me so that in every step that we take we don't collide with each other This is the law that we will follow. That's all. I agree with you I'm so glad that you have made your position so abundantly clear on this subject because I Don't know why people are conflicted. Some people say they are conflicted Even over issues such as whether you need to stand up for the national anthem We had that's because in the theaters in one hand. They have popcorn in other have they have Coca-Cola They cannot stand up. You must consider these things No, but there was that absurd debate last year and I know many people here would know about it It became fashionable last year to say assert my right to rebel and My rebellion is that I will not stand up for the national anthem and I'm saying this openly, Sadhguru I am a part of the media too But I found the pseudo liberal media in this country Advocating that as an example of the freedom of expression and forgive me my directness on this I never felt people in my fraternity or more wrong Oh See what we need to understand is we are picking up bits and pieces From developed nations and trying to implant it into our country. Well, sir. Well, sir. Well, sir when 50% of the Population has not even eaten properly You can't be debating nuances of democracy. It's just stupid You go to United States of America in every sports event. Okay, you know baseball match National anthem is played. Everybody will stand up like this. Okay with their hand on their heart Well, you're discussing some kind of French Revolution. All right But you don't have Riverside and flowing nor do have Paris around you You have slums around you. You have a stinking Yamuna flowing. You shouldn't be talking the same language And half the people have not eaten properly. Just take a walk Just take a walk in one of the villages. You will see 60% of the population Their skeletal system has not grown to full size. We are busy producing underdeveloped human beings Substandard human beings you're producing and you're talking about a great nation and fanciful ideas This is not the time when everybody is well fed when things are taken care of Then maybe you can talk about certain things. This is not the time. I Don't agree with you sir. I don't think great nations are built out of economic well-being But my that's my simple point of this agreement with you. I'm not I'm not saying economic well-being Eating what I need to eat to sustain this body is not economic well-being. It is a fundamental right Whether there is a nation or no nation Not just for a human being Not just for a human being for every worm insect animal bird The basic sustenance necessary for their survival is the right of the creature, isn't it? So this is not about economic well-being. This is a must for every life every worm insect Bird animal tree must get the fundamental nourishment. Of course, we are included as one of the creatures No, I I meant it in your linking the talk of a great nation to whether we have everything that we need I think we still can be even if we don't Sadguru with again polite disagreement with you The you know what happened in Bangladesh after the famine also saw the rise of the greatest form of nationalism in Bangladesh So history teaches us different lessons at different points of time. I don't want to argue with you on this We'll go aside and have an argument up My my my my point to you which you which which provokes me to take this discussion further Why have have we become? Like have we insulated ourselves the better we do The more we want to cut ourselves off from our own country and our surroundings and I agree with your previous point In 1997 Sadguru. I was in NDTV. There was a story which came out a reporter called Sampat Mahapatra called me and he said that There is a story. I want to go and report and we needed approval from the headquarters to send the reporter down Sampat went there and he said there's a village where people are dying We sent him there When he went there He said that there was an entire village which which was dying and the reason for that was horrifying There was complete starvation in that village There was a drought. There was no health facilities. There was not a grain of rice So the people of this area, which is the KBK Kalahandi Bolangir Koraput Belt in Orissa started taking the seeds of mangoes Putting it into muddy water and making a soup of it that Because it was so hot started becoming rotten and So it was a rotten mango gruel That was prepared and because they were so hungry and No mother can see her child's staff They was poisoning themselves to death because they were so hungry. They had to eat something In my life, I remember at that time as a reporter. I stood outside gate number one of parliament I was so angry and I confronted the then food minister Who said to me that this Barae Desh me Beasties log Marjata. I bought the batangar And I was shocked and horrified Till this date I feel and people say to me why do you scream so much? I say because in this country you don't yell you don't scream nobody gives a damn. I Still do believe that in this country We believe in that chalta her attitude because we think everything's okay with us. Why should we care about the rest of the We're growing but the chasm in our country is also growing between the rich and the poor Between the haves and the have-nots between those who have everything and those who don't have any shelter and yet we feel Happy enough to cut ourselves off from it. Is it true that we spend a large amount of our time cutting ourselves up from our own country? Is this not one of the greatest problems of India today? That we the privileged sections of India have cut ourselves off from the rest of India And is there a solution for it? This is a question is not about the disconnect between the well-to-do and not so well-to-do or the improvised reasons of our nation we are We have not invested enough In the fundamental nature of our humanity we've become many things other than being human If you sat here as just a human being It would be very natural for you That your heart beats for everything around you But now you've become so many things starting from gender Language culture religion race ethnicity in many ways we have identified ourselves Because of these identities These all these identities give you a certain sense That you can undermine your humanity You cannot undermine your humanity if you did not have these identities or if you did not give it too much priority You all of us have those identities at a certain level cultural identities are there language identities are there But they are not fundamental to us our fundamental nature is that we're life If you sat here as life, you would reverberate with every life Nobody had to tell you you would be that way But that has not happened that is because We are a moral country We've never had codes of morality in this nation We have always managed populations because in every generation they were enlightened beings hundreds of them and So we manage human consciousness in a certain way by making people conscious We manage situations in a beautiful way Wherever those people did not come or not enough were there there Anarchy happened chaos happened because we have never had a set of morality Because morality makes you act But doesn't transform you For example, I'm sorry. I'm not commenting on the theme of the club. For example the word service leaving the Theme of this see it's like this if you Let's say there is a child stout out on the street If you pick up the child and feed this child and take care of this child you think it is service But if you pick up your own child and do that, you don't think it is service What is the difference? I'm asking For one your heart is beating for the other it is not so the barrenness of heart is the basis of all this We are always trying to do good. You don't have to do go any good You just have to become a full-fledged human being a full-fledged human being means a natural conscious response to everything and What best you could do you could do and that's all a man can do that You are at your best always to everybody and everything or you're doing the greatest maybe not but I'm doing my best If every human being do does their best in every sphere of life with every life that they come in touch with Something will happen, but above all this is a more large-scale problem that there is lack of planning lot of lack of policy lack of corrections and Irresponsible Population explosion in 1947. We were only 33 crores Today we are 120 crores or 25 crores Four times over in 70 years is irresponsible reproduction This is not because we have over reproduced. We must understand this in 1947 The average life expectancy of an Indian was only 28 years Today we are reaching somewhere 63 64, which is a great achievement We should further push it, but On an average a woman used to Go into pregnancy when she was 14 15 or 16 today. We've pushed it to something like 1920 is the average when they're getting pregnant so by the time she's 65 or 70 there are four generations behind her or Three generations behind her and one or two generations ahead of her that means right now in many families There are five generations living. This is not good This is very brutal what I'm saying I know but at any time there is space only for three generations Your parents yourself and your children there can't be five generations living That's what is happening right now in this country and in many places, especially in this country five Generations are living so there is no space once there is such a load people will keep their humanity in the attic and go about brutally That child who comes and knocks on your traffic space. I Would cry at one time now. I'm trying to look down Because every time I don't have money to pull out most of the time I don't have I have to ask the driver Who's driving? Please give me some money So I try to look down so you're trying to put down your humanity for some time But it would be natural for me to pull out whatever I have and give it to him But now you can't do it because it's everywhere It's it's too much of a problem for you to address individually wherever you can do whatever you can do you do But you're not able to address everything slowly you try to insulate your humanity This is what is happening. It is not that people have become brutal It's not that people have become inhuman because the problem is so pervasive. You're not able to address it As hate increased after Trump has hate increased after Trump Ah It is not increased It is just that it's little emboldened It's not increased. I spent substantial time in United States in and out It was always there Now it is finding expression But I think that's a temporary upsurge. I think it'll Control itself law law enforcement will take charge after some time. They'll pick up a few people handle that But hate crimes have been happening all the time in America has Europe invited trouble on itself You know, it's open the doors. There's been a lot of them. They've not opened doors. They're close to all the doors They built fences now there. They're just not allowing the media near the fences anymore or media also is part of it They don't go near the fences. They only shoot the open spaces Their cameras don't pick up the fences. Most nations have put a barbed wire fences wherever the migrants could come and they've stopped All right You can't blame them either because they're coming in millions if Millions of new people come with a completely different culture culture A religion which they will not compromise and they will not fit into your society They will try to create their own society Local people will feel insecure It's see it is It is a multi-headed problem. It's not a simple problem. So this is why I'm saying for all these Azadi groups also The moment you break the fabric of any nation, it doesn't matter how fragile how ramshackle it is the moment you break it What comes out of it is? Such a thing that you cannot control it. See if you had not bombed bombed out these nations If you had not bombed out Iraq Syria Libya Afghanistan, wherever If you had not done that if you had negotiated and settle those problems to whatever extent you can't fix all the problems At least you could have contained the problems if you had done that these people would not be moving to Europe Somehow they would continue to live because nobody wants to leave their place of birth and their parentage and everything just for nothing When it becomes terrible they want to go but once the momentum starts The things that I've seen in Europe. I cannot utter here. It's terrible What these migrants are doing to themselves to earn just one meal is too horrible. The women are all on the streets All kinds of people with children and everything they are on the streets selling themselves because there is no other way to make a living It's these are all people who lived reasonably well reasonably well means maybe not in In the same level of economic well-being as the Western Europe But they lived with some dignity with some pride in their own lands. I draw from Beirut to Damascus to the Iraqi border. I just drove myself through the desert and Fantastic country it was just seven years ago You know really nice country particularly this city, Elopo city, which is an 8,000-year-old city This city was built on taxes levied on Indian traders. So you must assume What is the level of trade that was happening between India and Damascus and Jerusalem was such Just by the taxes that the Indian traders paid they built a city a living city 8,000 years old One of the most beautiful cities if you ask me today when I see on the news channels Aleppo It's What is it? Is this a solution for anybody? so you may have whatever people earn Nobel Peace Prizes, but This is the kind of solutions they offer to the world There was no need to do these things there was a way to negotiate because of the simplistic moralistic Attitude that you have that this is a good guy. This is a bad guy This is basic stuff good guy bad guy business And millions of people over a million are dead over 10 to 15 million are homeless Nobody is counting these numbers really properly But what's happened to Aleppo when I see on the screens? I can't believe it. This is a city that I enjoyed so much just seven years ago And the people were so wonderful I'm I'm not quite sure you know you quickly passed through my question when I asked you about what happening in America And you glanced it through and you said that it's a it's a temporary Personally, I'm saying nothing has changed as the news channels are trying to project Suddenly America has changed or become a cauldron of hate. It's not true Generally, there is a racial discrimination in the country all of us face it somewhere or the other especially me I've not been shot at yet, but people have given me daggers and So many things happen there. It's we just say okay. This is how this country's and go on this America has the most beautiful aspects of life also and Very extremely negative aspects also because this is that kind of a melting pot all kinds of people Now those people some of those people are feeling emboldened and they think they can act But I'm telling you they were acting even before How many hate crimes have happened? Recently in the last one two years you must have seen all these black people being shot in many places They put on the Facebook live and all that stuff, but this has been happening all the time Suddenly because of the Facebook you think it's happening. No, it's been happening all the time now the world knows Otherwise the people who live there. They always know this happens all the time. Just look back at the statistics Let's say in 2016-2015 how many Indians how many blacks how many Hispanics have been killed? I don't think the numbers have changed the reporting has changed You're blaming the media. I'm not blaming the media. You're not blaming Trump You're not blaming Trump, but you're blaming the media for that I'm saying yes, definitely his presence is emboldened them, but I'm saying Nobody needs to emboldened them. They've been always doing it. Maybe now they're uttering the words They're not afraid of uttering the words because they think in the highest office there is support Sadguru now, let's look at a few Issues that you've raised in the last three minutes. You say that you know, there must be a better solution There must be no confrontation Non-violence is not always the answer. No, I would argue. Yes, you know, it's okay to say It's it doesn't deliver results In your view can non-violence be an answer for example to jihadi terrorism Not at all. So if not, so then what I would like you to tell this audience is Dealing with one of the greatest Individual constructs of problems in the world today, which is jihadi terrorism in your view, Sadguru What is the direct antidote to jihadi terrorism and immediate and quick solution to it? What is the direct antidote that's what I'm doing. That's my work, but quick solution I don't have one There's no quick solution individual transformation is the only solution, but that's not a quick solution But a lasting solution What is there? What is the solution to it? Let me rephrase that. What is the solution? I'm saying how do you deal with it? If you were a world leader, Sadguru, which you are in your own way But if you were a political leader Facing the problem of jihadi terrorism, what would you do to take it on? See we must understand this though nobody wants to spell it out nobody wants to say it It is written not in one in many religious books across the world It is written clearly those who are not like you deserve to be killed Let's come to the point. I know This may bring things upon myself, but it's okay Not in any one book in many books. It is written clearly Those who do not believe the same things that I believe Must die they are fit to die they run fit to live here. This is clearly there So because People are claiming it is the word of God. They don't have the courage to amend the book It is time that you take Sensible part of People who believe in these books and say see if you edit this ten pages Your book will become wonderful The boys who the boys who carried out the Dhaka attack came from very very elite families Some of them spoke accent in English. They simply wore black robes Called themselves ISIS went into a cafe and shot innocent people When a philosophy as dangerous as that and I wouldn't use the term philosophy When a belief as dangerous as that becomes as viral as potent it grows organically ISIS then becomes a thought process not even a terrorist organization. Then how do you deal with it? I need to correct that question a bit. It is not organic. It is very organized Till you address this you will not address the problem It is very very organized So if anything that's organized it has a source If you have any kind of administrative strength and skills When you see something threatens the fabric of the society, you must know where is the source for these organizations and deal with it But we don't have the courage to deal with it because every six months we got an election Okay, every six months or eight months there is an election going on somewhere and because of the this I'll blame on you because of twenty four seven channels Some election is happening in Manipur. It feels like a national election is happening in Tamil Nadu Everybody sitting and watching Manipuri elections Because it's made to feel like there's election going on and when they're when politicians are in election mode You don't expect responsible action It is expected because This is the nature of democracy. That is the time of hyperbole But that should be only once in five years. I think we are working towards that That's a good thing that elections will be only once in five years and that's how it should be because It is not that they're all bad, but these are the compulsions of a democracy When you when you go into an election campaign, you cannot say I'm taking this economic step This economic step this economic step because the crowd there doesn't understand any of these things You have to rev up their passion about something. So in that mode, you can't fix a nation So this is not organic. Let's be very clear about this. This is super organized It has grown everywhere in the world with a tremendous sense of organization where there is an organization There is always a head and if you know how to administer a nation, you must know how to handle this One observation Sadhguru, which is an a comment Probably you haven't seen. Oh my god You need to have you need to have a look at that because to get all the spiritual gurus in India under one platform Never happens. It only happens when you scare and since you're using the word screwed up I'll use the words when you when you scare the shit out of them But coming to the serious part of it You know, I consider you and you know, I want to give a disclaimer I really don't I have a spiritual sense within me, but I don't really follow any spiritual guru and and therefore when when you know when I Actually went through internet and heard a few of your interviews in conversation I found in you a very logical person a person who is Practical a person who is scientific in his answers and therefore, you know, there was a connect But there were two things which actually broke that connect and there's a disconnect and I hope you can mend that today Which is when you talked about and maybe I got it wrong So therefore, you know, if you could just kindly explain what you meant by that That certain women Don't need to enter certain temples Or maybe women in certain temples need to know, you know need to stay out So that's one and the other is the recent one where in Jallikattu you talked about Fundamental rights of animals and every birds and everything but in Jallikattu you Supported the the other side of it. So why was this and Since it was kept political by our nerve most part of it and I think many of us out here were Wanting to hear the spiritual side of you So I'm following it up with the political question So you must understand this There are two reasons those people who are propagating certain things and also there is a certain unfortunate discriminatory process But essentially culturally this nation Before Invations and other things happened. This nation did not have a big discriminatory process between men and women You look back on the ancient societies here. There was absolutely no discrimination most of the country was matriarchal they obviously because This is you must understand many things today or common between men and women not because of liberalism Simply because of technology Technology is level the ground in many ways your muscle Doesn't mean as much as it meant a thousand years ago when human beings were doing everything with their body Man's muscles were important So he dominated the world in a certain way once technology came Your muscles me if you have a lot of muscles will give you a menial job. We're not going to make you the boss here So because of that things change slowly, but in the spiritual dimension of this country There never was any discrimination You must understand if you don't know this as per the Hindu norms Hindu man cannot go to heaven without his wife. How nice is that? There are no other Apsaras and other whatever they are not waiting there. You have to go there with your wife You decide whether you want to go to heaven or not. That's up to you But a Hindu man cannot go to heaven without his wife next to him She has to be there So these are different ways this society addressed this but when the admissions happened particularly First thing that they're going for is your wife and your daughter That's the first thing that people will take away And it's the most disgraceful thing and the most painful thing so they all hit them in the granaries of the time and When continuously these raids were ravaging the society slowly don't step out of the house became a norm Because generation after generation the raids kept on happening So there are many historical aspects leave that about the temple entry There is no such thing anywhere that a woman should not enter the temple because she's a woman to understand It is just that certain temples They are doing certain occult work. There are certain forces there. I have to talk about biology One thing is mountain temples. We said women should not go because you must understand those were days This is the tiger land When I say tiger land today the poor tiger has to be protected as if it's a pussycat Those days they prowled in thousands Going into the jungle and coming back alive is a big thing if you don't know this even today there is a practice that If people tribal people walk in the jungle though there are not so many tigers anymore, they will take some incense and walk Because they don't want the wild animals to smell them There is Samrani in the South Indian temple, you know what Samrani? What do you call it in North? Samrani only right Yeah, either they burn it or they smear it on their body and walk so that the wild animals the cornivorous animals cannot smell you It is no more relevant because they're not so many left But at that time it was really tiger country So the very nature of women's biology is such That a cornivorous animal will always smell out a woman much more easily than a man Especially at certain times of the month, it will definitely smell it smell her out So they said mountain temples. She should not go all the mountain temples. They restrict it Now those things are gone women are equipped in a different way than the way they were at that time and the wildlife is Can't it is very much possible to go the other kind of temples where they were asked not to go were Where they're doing occult work when they're doing occult work I'm telling you whether you like it or you don't like it Maybe you're liberal, but you don't know the fundamentals of nature The nature is such that when you do certain occult work a woman is more susceptible to damage herself in such situation Then a man even for a man If there is any injury in the body, they won't let him into that place where they're doing occult Because it will affect him So this was done with a certain care and concern not as a discrimination Today you're taking it up as a political activism and thinking everybody should go to everywhere. It's fine Then the thing is you should not do that kind of work because it'll be harmful Even today in this country if a woman is an early stage of pregnancy, we won't allow her to come to the funerals Do you know this? It is a very sensible thing to good. Do it is not discrimination. It is protection Not just for the woman, but for the child that she carries. It's very very important If you do not look at life the way it is how the life forces function How it is best for us to be and if you just talk about social equality social equality Then you will do silly things which will only in the end make the woman suffer But now it's become political activism. Probably those temples are not doing any occult of any great strength So maybe it doesn't matter. That's a different matter. But if you're talking politics if you're talking about equality There are only two places where you should be even concerned whether somebody is a man or a woman What is in somebody's pants is not your business Only in bedrooms and bathrooms. You must be concerned about these things Completely totally Thousand percent disagree with you. I I have you know in this country The problem has been that a lot of people take upon themselves the responsibility of protecting women Not my perspective You see in this country of ours at one point of time. It was also told that Sati is tradition So we must select clear that now you raise something Second point is there are no tigers who are going to eat women when they go to Shani Shigna poor or Sabarimala By your own argument There was a rationale you say for not letting women a logical rationale for not letting women into temples earlier That rationale doesn't exist today. It doesn't that's what I'm saying So then change the rules which I'm saying just that where it comes from and where when Situations change we have to change the norms accordingly. That's what I'm saying and anyway Look at how unfair this is in this country. There are women who can be divorced on what's up Triple the luck on what's that's another matter In this woman in this country must answer understand the sensibilities of people today They are going to question. What is injustice definitely a woman is being kept out of a temple because she's told that she's impure By the definition of what is pure and impure if it doesn't apply no no in today's context Then we need to give voice to that all I'm saying to you Sadguru is another point of polite disagreement with you, and we will never agree on this point Is that we will come we'll come to the agreement disagreement is that is that things have changed? I know this personally Sadguru. I have some understanding of the pulse of this country We did a campaign called the right to pray I wish Sadguru you were there with me when phone lines were opened When people men women children from all over the country called up and said what happens in Shani Shigna poor Haji Ali or Sabri Malai is unfair. That is a perspective which must be understood. See, that's all I said Please sir if you but we think is I know you you I know you are in a certain Profession where you only ask questions, but you must listen to what I'm saying I I said guru Sadguru, let me tell you one. Let me let me finish. Let me finish. You are to question. Let me tell you one thing Please understand That the logic is also understood by people and the right to question. What is wrong is essential to my profession Yes, the day I stopped questioning what I'm not questioning that I will not be true I'm not questioning that But I'm telling you please because what is simple basic logic and in how many ways life happens are two different things Whatever we did to protect from wildlife and stuff is not relevant anymore because women are not in the same condition They're equipped in many different ways Going up to hill temples, which we very much possible That's not a issue at all, but where there is genuine occult I Would still not send my daughter there or anybody that I know because This even for a man if he's in a certain condition, it will affect him if he's not of a certain nature But women is much more susceptible to this is such a thing happening in a temple or not is a questionable thing But this is not about protecting women from somebody because this is the nature of our biology. We cannot ignore it All right now Talking about Sati Nobody can end or such a thing talking about three words will dismantle your marriage because three words may happen in moments of anger and Disagreement and something and it's over. This is another thing altogether Sati as a thing came up Again when only when men were killed in battle When men were killed in battle when other people entered the towns What happened to the woman was worse than death Because of that they got into this mode when my husband who is a soldier dies I kill myself because what happens after that is worse than death So that came from that and somebody exploited and stretched it. Well, we stopped that reasonably I think almost almost totally stopped that that's a different thing if you think I'm speaking for not equality of women He's I don't want to say anything. I don't want to defend that because My life is not about looking at someone as man and woman as I said only Only in a certain context of our life we have to recognize the gender of a person He's rest of the time. Why should we even recognize the gender of a person a human being is a human being? Only in certain aspects of our life somebody is a man somebody's a woman All the time thinking I'm a man. You're a woman is drives to madness I'll make this past, but I'll just make one up if you if you say you have to enter heaven with your wife I you can enter heaven with your wife, but you aren't entered a particular temple with your wife. I don't think that's fair No, no, no, no, no, no, no, I take the next You can't have the last word on that I'm I only mentioned the heaven business not because I believe there is a heaven No, no, I did not talk about the heaven because I think there is a heaven and you're going to heaven I know you're not going to any such place but I am saying the source the society and the culture tried to control the natural urge for a man to dominate the woman with These kind of things That's all I said Satguru you talked about self enrichment and self Consciousness you were going to give us some tools. I think we all got distracted. We none of us have heard about the tools that you could offer us See it's like this the nature of your Existence your experience and your perception is right now like this You know that you're here right now because you can see You can hear you can smell you can taste and you can touch Suppose right now you just dozed off a little bit you're still very alive and Everything is going on here, but if you doze off a little bit first thing is I will disappear for sure If you do some more everybody will disappear if you go more even you will disappear. This is the nature of human experience Simply because the five sense organs have shut down Suddenly the world is obliterated even you're obliterated or in other words your entire experience of life Right now is limited to five sense organs These sense organs in the very nature of things Cannot see anything the way it is they can only see everything in comparison You know what is light only because you know darkness You know what is sound only because you know silence you know this only because of that because See right now if I touch this My hand says this cup is cool No, it is not so it is because of the way my body temperature is I'm thinking this is cool If I lower my body temperature and touch this this would be warm to me So your entire perception is by comparison Perception by comparison is good enough for survival process It is not good enough for knowing the nature of life It will help you to survive in the world these five sense organs will help you to survive in the world But it will not give you any sense about what this life is about So if you have to know life the way it is Not the way it's projected to be when I say not the way it is projected to be see right now Let's say you're six feet tall Now in this society you stand like a tall man. You walk like a tall man. You feel like a tall man You are a tall man. You went to another society where everybody's eight feet tall Suddenly you feel like a short man stand like a certain Short man walk like one and feel like one and you are one, isn't it? So what you know by comparison is only good enough for survival in a given situation It is not good enough instruments to know life in its essence So if you want to know something more you have to enhance your perception Right now everything that you carry in your mind as information is all these comparisons and half bits and pieces When I say bits and pieces right now you can see this part of my hand That means you cannot see this part of my hand. This is not just with my hand even if you take a grain of sand You if you see one part you cannot see the other part. This is the nature of human perception Who and when this question came up When I don't have asked this question some time ago When I was a child I stared and stared trying to bend my perception Around this because I saw I can see only a part of it. How to see the other part. You won't believe this By the time I was 11 years of age I would walk in the jungle alone by myself for three to four days till my bread lasted Alone and I learned to see in the dock absolutely as good as the animals And not just walking I caught dozens of snakes in the dock They couldn't believe that I can see as good as them, but I could pick them up Because it is just a question of enhancing your perception and a human being is capable of this because In this on this planet we have the most evolved neurological system But because of cerebral activity, which is new Equal I mean evolutionary scale it is a new happening Because of that we are too enamored with our thought and emotion. We don't feel so many things But actually you have a better neurological system than any creature on this planet. Do you agree with me? But if you want to smell something out, you will build a bring a dog If you want something else, you look at something else because They don't have this thought process They're able to just be keen on how they perceive their senses But human beings ability to Sense anything has gone down because they are completely going on with their own thought Their own thought and emotion keeps them busy for their entire life their psychological reality Has overshadowed their existential reality. This is the biggest problem So when we talk about life, we are not talking about a psychological space today if you say life If somebody says my life, you are supposed to think he's talking about his work He's talking about his family. He's talking about his car. He's talking about his wealth He's not talking about life Life means this what is throbbing inside and keeping this alive right now. This is life, isn't it? But when people say life, you're supposed to understand that he's not talking about life He's actually talking about his job or wealth or money a business or something Because your idea of life has become purely survival The idea of evolution or the possibility of this evolution is that a human being is capable of rising Beyond their survival process. This is the reason why survival doesn't fulfill you For every other creature their survival requirements are taken care of. This is fine. They have no other issue Eating slipping reproducing their life is complete Till these things happen to you, you think these are big things But once they happen to you, they don't mean anything You want something more to happen if that something more happens, you want something more if that something more happens You want something more if you look at this What you want is not more what you want is all And if you want all You should not go by extending physical boundaries Because Physical can never be all, isn't it? You're unknowingly you're desiring for the infinite But you think you will get there by counting one two three four five. No, you will only become endless counting You will only become endless counting Now because we are looking at everything in comparison In many ways we have fragmented the world Even our own species between man and woman and everything and everything is divided because We are perceiving everything through sense perception. We don't have a life perception So if you have to transcend the limitations of your senses It is not that senses are bad without that you wouldn't even know that you exist Sensors are fundamental without it. You cannot survive But once you're human survival is not good enough something more needs to happen For that something more Some striving is needed. You must look at this properly. Anything in your life, which is about survival Has come to you just naturally. See, suppose you got lost in a jungle as an infant no contact with any human society Something edible came in front of you. Would you first try your ears then your nostrils then your eyes and accidentally find your mouth No anything concerned with survival you just know, isn't it? But you wouldn't know how to read how to write a language this that many other things you would not know Because anything beyond survival will not come to you unless you strive for it So to turn inward that means why I'm saying turn in worries because these sense organs are essentially outward bound But the experience of your life is happening from within you. Do you see me? Hello, all of you Do you see me? Even if you're not listening, it's okay. But do you see me? Can you use one hand and point out where I am? You got it all wrong. You know, I am a mystic No, this light is falling upon me reflecting going through your lenses inverted image in the retina. You know the entire story So, where do you see me? You see me within yourself. Where do you hear me? You hear me within yourself Where have you seen the whole world? within yourself Everything that ever happened to you light and darkness happens within you Pain and pleasure happens within you joy and misery happens within you Agony and ecstasy happens within you just about anything that ever happened to you Happened only within you. You have never experienced anything outside of you Right now if somebody touches your hand, you think you're experiencing their hand. No You're only experiencing the sensations in your hand. Isn't it? Now your entire experience is within when it is so What happens within you at least what happens within you must happen the way you want it, isn't it? If you happen just the way you want it Would you keep yourself in the highest level of pleasantness or unpleasantness? pleasantness The choice for yourself is definitely pleasantness What you want for your neighbor may be debatable, but what you want for yourself is very very clear But that one thing is not happening. Why i'm talking about pleasantness is there is substantial medical and scientific evidence today that If you remain pleasant Without a moment of anger anxiety irritation agitation nothing for 24 hours if you remain like this They are saying your ability to use your intelligence can go up by hundred percent in 24 hours time So Pleasantness or joy or bliss is not a goal by itself. It is a fundamental necessity In the sense only if you are experience of life is pleasant And if there is no fear of suffering Will you walk full stride? Otherwise fear of suffering will always cripple you in so many ways, but today it's become like this people Well, even spiritual leaders are going about talking saying that peace of mind is the ultimate goal of life Such people will only rest in peace I was to speak at Tel Aviv And i'm flying out of Atlanta in united states and i'm to land there at 11 in the morning and speak at 6 30 in the evening I end up landing there because of some flight delays at 6 in the evening So i'm quickly changing in the airport Because in this 35 years i have not been laid to a single event or appointment. I have managed this always So i'm rushing and i'm famished i'm super hungry Because i'm flying an american airline. There's nothing edible on that plane But i don't have a moment to grab something so i just went straight and to my amazement i found I'm speaking at a fine restaurant. That doesn't happen at all to me I thought this is it when i'm so hungry. This is the place to go And people were already coming in some people greeting me and one man comes and says shalom. I ask him What does it mean? He says this is the highest way of greeting. I said well, that's your opinion What does it mean? He said no, no, this is really the highest way of greeting. All right, but what does the word mean? I said it means peace Then I say why is peace the highest way of greeting unless you're born in middle east You come in south india in the morning you come and say peace I'll say what's wrong with you I'm saying if you deprive yourself of something for long enough Suddenly slowly it'll rise to heaven If you've not eaten for five days, let you say let us say your favorite god appeared What will you ask? food food will raise to heaven Everything that you don't have will raise to heaven being peaceful. It's not the ultimate goal of life It is the most fundamental requirement today if you want to enjoy your dinner If not ecstatic at least you must be peaceful, isn't it? If you want to take a walk on the street and enjoy it You must at least be peaceful if you want to live with this handful of people in your family You must at least be peaceful if not ecstatic, isn't it? If you want to enjoy the few things that you do in your life The most fundamental thing basic requirement is at least you're peaceful But today people are saying it is the ultimate goal of life peace of mind That's never going to happen Because they have not understood the simplest aspects of life for example your mind Can we? The simplest aspect It's like this Because people are falling out of scriptures. This is the biggest problem I was about to tell a joke, but I don't know was serious This happened in Tennessee, you know, we our center in united states in Tennessee. It's a hardcore religious place People said Sadhguru you will get killed in no time But we are flourishing in Tennessee doing very well because they can't figure out who I am I go out to this into this little town And I'm new there and I'm smiling at everybody and greeting people on the street small little town One big man Over six feet tall this wide comes and stands just six inches away from me Looks down on me like this and said god loves us I look at but him and said the way you are only god can love you He has to love the mistakes he has made Before he realized he takes time to get things but then I'm gone of course So in Tennessee every family has a huge bible not small big ones this big Leather bound the bigger the family the richer the family the bigger the size of the bible Almost every home has 10 commandments carved On the stone most of it goes from South India. This carvings So it's good business. I watch this and say, okay, it's good for our economy Commandments or no commandments So This little boy eight year old boy went to school in on east coast and came back home On the vacation so he was just flipping through this big book And a dry leaf fell out The boy started screaming Mama mama see what I found His mother said, what have you found my son? She just come and see what I found So the mother came running to see what? Then he pointed at the leaf and said Adam's underwear So a lot of people the reason why Something so simple and life oriented has become complicated is because people are falling out of scriptures What is it that makes you think? Thousand two thousand five thousand years ago people were far more intelligent than you and me Why is it so? Is it not such a retrograde great step that you think people Thousand two thousand five thousand years ago were much smarter than you and me Is it so is it in line with the evolutionary process? I'm asking No but This is the thing we want to change Today with everything around us We handle it scientifically using various technologies It is equally important that you handle your inner nature Scientifically in a logically correct manner and With tools now your thing is give me the tools These are subjective in nature if it was a screwdriver I would have brought come with a bag full and given it to you. This is subjective What is subjective means it is something within Right now everything of you is outward. That is all your five senses are outward bound, isn't it? You cannot turn them inward. You can't roll your eyeballs inward and scan yourself You can hear this so much activity here. You cannot hear this An ant crawls upon this hand. You can feel it so much blood flowing You cannot feel it in the very nature of things your sense organs are outward bound If you want genuine tools of transformation, I would say if you dedicate 28 to 30 hours of focused time Okay, 28 to 30 hours of focused time. We will give you tools To experience or touch a dimension which is inward Inward is not of thought inward is not contemplation What you call as mind and body is very outward because Body is something that you accumulated over a period of time from outside, isn't it? The soil that you walk upon is what is sitting here is the body If you get it now from me your life will transform otherwise one day you will get it from the Maggots Yes What you call as my mind is also an accumulation of impressions that we have taken in this is accumulation of food This is accumulation of impressions but between these two heaps of impressions and food Somewhere there is something else Which is which makes all this happen if that comes into your living experience Then you will not need any guidance from anybody To get you there. I'm asking not 12 years of sadhana. I'm asking 30 hours of focused time You must do that much to yourself you deserve that Thank you So my question to you, you know when we change think of you know change bringing reforms to our religion And we all are you know taught that in Vedas it's written that Soul has no gender And so, you know, we saw this Sati Pratha being abolished and we saw widow remarriage also So, why don't you all as Arna was saying think about you know the entry of Women in temples the fundamentally in this society. There is no setting as discrimination There are more Devi temples in the country Than anything else every village has it But certain Temples have taken this position mainly hill temples This as I said because of a certain reason in the past it has to change now No question about that But if there are occult temples, even if they allow you, I please beg the woman. Please don't go there By law if you're allowed by norm if you're allowed still you should not go there if you have any sense So my question is to both Sadguruji as well as Arnab What's your view on our leader prime minister? And I would like to ask both of you Sadguruji if you are the prime minister tomorrow What is one change which you would like to bring in our country? Well, I am not planning to get into the parliament either About My opinion about a leader See, I am not a member of any political party Nor am I a fan of any political leader Nor am I a fan of any political leader But I have to say this I'm politically conscious maybe for the last Nearly 50 years now I've been reading newspapers for 50 years. So In this I find Now it looks like we have the most determined leadership ever Are they right or they're wrong? You it's not for me to take a call whether they're right or wrong At least India is topmost on their mind This is very heartening for me and because I have I have been in certain situations with variety of political leaders in the past It it always scared me that for 24 hours if you're with them They don't have one single thought on their mind Today what they can do for this country sitting in such a responsible position Which which kind of you know really shook me? How is it somebody that is heading a nation With such a huge population and a million problems doesn't think today What can be done? At least today you have a leadership where nation is on the topmost in their mind But Do we have to agree with everything that they do not necessarily Can we disagree with them 100 percent? We can if What is being done is not right for the country I don't know spoke about this pride today morning also where I was I was telling them Nation is an idea Without bringing pride and emotion towards that you are not going to make it happen This is a crime we've committed in 1947 when there was a euphoria of emotion and Thing for the nation people are willing to die for it That was the time To enshrine the nation in everybody's hearts We should not we did not do that We had fanciful ideas and we kind of We we did not know what to do probably in retrospect in in In post-modern we can say many things. We don't know what was their mindset and what was happening whatever they lost control over that They lost that opportunity Whenever there is strife in a nation That is the time when you can once again reshape a country When people are comfortable unfortunately most people will not be conscious We have to build a humanity Which will be in at most comfort and still conscious that is when we really build a good nation But still we are in a place where unless we are in a strife We are not conscious of the larger well-being of what needs to happen So in many ways Today, even if there's no real strife on the street, there is strife. I don't know is going to be active in two months Small issues When I say small, I'm not saying small in significance. I'm saying small in size See a child falls into a tube well It is small in size, but not small in significance A life is a life. Okay If it is my life, it's significant So it is the same way it's significant for everybody's life. It may be small in size, but it is significant For what it is So like this there are a thousand issues in the country and for the first time we have mediums through which All these issues can enter everybody's heads and everybody can think about it So there is strife there is going to be strife in this country when I say strife Don't think something has to happen on the street. No, it needs to happen strife needs to happen in people's hearts and minds So that is anyway going to happen When this is happening, this is the time to build that sense of pride, but pride should not become prejudice it's very important to build that pride in who we are And not developing prejudice against those who we think are not part of us to this is a Very subtle process Which needs to be done. Can is there some ideal way of doing it? No We will have to mess around with it It is that's the only way it will happen, but We are a new generation is coming young people Who's thought process whose way of looking at life has changed in many ways Today for the first time in the history of humanity More human beings are able to think for themselves than ever before Whether they're thinking right or wrong is not the debate, but they're thinking At one time a scripture would think for you a guru would think for you an elder would think for you One man in the village would think for you today. Everybody is beginning to think for themselves once this happens People will become in such a way unless something is logically correct. They cannot swallow it If you make them swallow it, they cannot digest it. This will happen Right now you are still a generation who's still willing to acknowledge an authority and try to digest something Which is not logically correct But your children will be such Even if god comes and speaks if he doesn't make sense to him them, they will reject it We are we are just in the verge of that So this is a time this is a good time because Now we are moving to a place where only truth can be the authority authority cannot be the truth anymore Doesn't matter where the authority is coming from This evolution is anyway going to happen in the next In my estimate I'm saying somewhere between next 20 to 40 years time All the heavens will collapse When I say heavens will collapse. Do you know what's in heaven? You must know In hindu heaven the food is very good If you're a foodie, that's where you must go nala himself cooks for you the best chef In another place there are those white gown ladies who float around legless ladies who float around in the clouds If you like that kind of ambience you go there In another place you will encounter virgin problems if you like that you can go there But what do you have to do to get there? This happened in alabama you heard of alabama It's a special state in america In a sunday school a sunday school teacher was going all full on full fire And in his rhetoric he asked What do you have to do to go to heaven? Little mary who was sitting in the front row Said if I scrub the church floor every sunday, I will go to heaven. He said absolutely Another little girl stood up and said if I share 50 percent of my pocket money with the less privileged friend I will go to heaven correct Another little boy said if I help other people I will go to heaven correct Little tommy in the back bench stood up and said you got to die first That's a qualification you got to die first When you die Depending upon what culture you are we will either burn you bury you or cut you and throw you to the birds One thing is if you've not done anything eco friendly I am assuring you at least when you die We will do something eco friendly about you. We'll put you back to earth. It's a very good thing to do If you take this body and go away somewhere, this is the worst thing to do because you're taking away the topsoil So We you will leave your body here and go to heaven You went to heaven without a body. What are you going to do with good food and virgins? This is what I want to know When you don't have a body So I am saying heavens will collapse Once people start asking logical questions heavens will collapse When heavens collapse, we have managed humanity for a long time Telling them doesn't matter. You're suffering here God is looking at everything you're suffering one day. He will reward you up there With this we have been managing humanity. So this will not work When this doesn't work, what will people do? One big thing that will happen is we will move towards chemicals To be peaceful we already need chemicals To be joyful we need chemicals to be healthful we need chemicals 70% of the united states population is on prescription medication The other 30% of course buying it off the back streets Just just see in the last 25 years How many more people are consuming alcohol? How many more people are consuming drugs on this planet? It's gone up 10,000 percent This is simply because in their minds heaven is collapsing. I must understand you must understand this That somewhere else it will be good is going away. They want to have it good here Unless you teach them Unless you teach them how to simply sit here and be blissed out about your existence itself The very life within you is an ecstatic process If you don't teach them this 90% will move towards drugs and alcohol in a huge way in the next 25 to 30 years This is not a moral issue for me. I have no moral judgment on that It is just that As a generation of people we must understand We hold this space on the planet just for a brief period of time There are two fundamental responsibilities One is we must leave the world a little better than the way it was given to us by the previous generation This we cannot do No matter if we do all the right things from today It will take another 150 to 200 years to turn back the damage we have already caused So no way we can leave the world better than the way it was When we came in So in that responsibility, we can't fulfill. We can start the process now. That's all The next important responsibility we have as a generation is the next generation that we produce Must be at least one notch better than us But if 90% of humanity is on some kind of chemicals, believe me Genetically we will produce a generation which is less than us. This is a crime against humanity So one important aspect that every nation has to take care of including ours is That we must teach people how to know well-being within themselves Unfortunately right now We think if you give money or food or medicine it is service If I teach you how to live joyfully it is not service We have still said in this country the most important thing in the ancient India was You know how to be within you. This was the most respected thing because We know what will come out of this When you have no concerns of fear When you have no fear of suffering That is when you will walk your life full stride. That is when great human beings are produced If we want to produce a great nation Nation society, these are just words. There are only individual human beings Only if we produce great human beings will there be a great society and a great nation and a great world Sadguru, I'd have to thank you at this point There was a very thin line between imagination and perception There were times when one could actually pick up a lot of information About things around us like the energy And sometimes it was like is it my fear or is it everybody else's fear the the collective consciousness What validates that within me that is it me is it imagination is it perception See there are five dimensions of receptivity in the human being Or five major points of receptivity in the human brain itself These five dimensions are referred to as Centers of sleep Centers of imagination centers of memory centers of right perception centers of perversion Everything that comes to you How you perceive it depends on through which center you took it in You will see if you have two children at home Same genetics same food Probably went to the same school one goes like this another goes like this you can't figure How did these two people come from the same father and mother? Because it is the way they perceive it from where they receive it Same things if you receive from different dimensions it becomes different things within you This is the reason why This this may look like A little thing, but I'm telling you this is the reason why forever They've been stressing on a live guru because when you walk a terrain that you're not familiar with It's best to have a guide who's walked the terrain. See I every every year I trek in Tibet and Nepal This sherpa who walks with me He is illiterate He he doesn't know anything spirituality nothing But we're going in the mountains. There are two pathways. He just says I just go behind him If I think I'm much smarter than him and I say no like this I will go Maybe that's my last day You understand In the mountains he is the boss He knows the terrain. He's lived there. He's grown up there. He has a certain sense with all my education I have a sense of direction. I'm an aviator. I have a certain sense of direction. I know the mathematics I know the geometry of it everything but still When I'm in the mountains if he says, hmm, I go this way He doesn't even care to tell me sath guru come this way. He just says I just follow him It's sensible to do that when you're walking in unfamiliar terrain. That's the best thing to do. Thank you