 Aaron Fox, you gave me some of the best advice, life advice I think I've ever gotten and so I want to talk with you about it now. So I'm doing this series about being laid off and I kept thinking like, okay, like what do I need to cover? What do I need to talk about? And it was impossible for me to do this comprehensively without having a conversation with you. So thank you for your time today. You did an episode of Single Threaded, you gave us this advice. I think I can't remember, had you just gone through a layoff or like were you in a job search at the time? What was the context? Both feel the same, like getting laid off and searching for a job. They're kind of intertwined. Yeah. Yeah. Unless you're like independently wealthy for some reason. Right. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, I have been laid off before and I have been on a job search for longer than I expected. So during that podcast, it was probably just when I got laid off. The thing that stuck with me is that you said something to the effect of, you know, when you're doing a hard thing, a new thing, you know, whatever it is, like, you know, searching for a job and you're facing a lot of rejection, facing a lot of challenge, something that you do to offset that is to do something that you're good at, like unambiguously good at. And I just have to say from my experience, the day that I was laid off, I texted my wife Nellie and I said, I'm going to spend three hours coding for fun, like just for the hell of it. And then I'm going to come back and cook ribs. And that was like, you were like the angel in my shoulder was like, just do something you love doing. And so I'd love to hear more about your experience. What led you to kind of finding that and living it? Yeah. I think, well, first off, thank you that I feel I'm like speechless, obviously. It's just great that you made ribs and coded for fun and thought of that advice. I love it so much. I think where it came from really is it took me a while to get there. And I was just so sad and so sad of either getting laid off and not being able to find a job and feeling because when you have a job, you have projects and you feel successful and like you spend whatever six, eight hours of your day at your job. And it's what kind of gives you like purpose. It's like, oh, this is what I'm going to do today and this is what I'm going to accomplish and I'm going to feel good doing it because it helps. And when you don't have a job and you're applying or you just got laid off, you don't have that like bucket to like fill the satisfaction. And so I really was just so sad and I would just like bake a bunch, like just finding your recipe and like bake a bunch of food. And so like I had like so much baked goods by like every day, I would have something but I felt so like accomplished because it's like a quick, easy thing for me. At least baking comes very easily to just bake something and it's delicious. I can share it with my family and friends. And so that's kind of where it happened of like, oh, like I'll totally bomb a technical interview, but I'm going to go make some cookies because I'm good at that and it makes me feel good. And so it kind of just came from that wanting to just be happy and figuring out what makes me happy and I'm just going to do it. Yeah, I love that. I'm curious because I think both of us had this like food was a big part of it. And I know that food's not universal, but there is this thing that resonated with me was when you said the idea of doing something and having it be shareable, like having a shareable success. How much of that was a part of it for you to kind of be able to reset with the people that are important to you? Yeah, because that's where the satisfaction comes from. If they take a bite of my cookie and like, oh, this is the worst cookie I've ever had. One, I'd like, oh, it's just like a technical interview all over again. Or they like, oh, this is really great cookie. Like, yes, you know, like a little gold star in my mind of that. For me, it was very important, but it's also important to do stuff just for yourself, too. Like, I don't know. I'm a big dog walker. I like to walk my dog a lot and listen to a podcast. And so that's like another thing I would do at the time to, I don't know, just be like, oh, I did a walk today, gold star, you know? So it's not always satisfaction from other people. I feel like that's more of a bonus. But there's also like the individual of like, oh, I made a tiny little react thing, component or webpage, and that makes me feel good. So yeah, we were talking about this even just just before we hit record how even now you're taking some parental leave, but you're kind of excited to get those first like green blocks kind of on the board again. That there's there's something kind of in us that just wants to, like you said, like those little gold stars, the checkboxes are ending the day feeling accomplished. Now, this is really funny. I'm just I'll be honest, I make some pretty good ribs, but they're not always great, right? Like there's that chance that they're like not going to be good. And my my children, they're 10 and 13 now, have very distinguished pallets and care less about how I feel than giving their commentary on on food. And so I wonder, did you have any experiences in those moments where you tried to share something and it kind of bombed? And then how did that that feel? Or were you able to navigate around that? Yeah, I think I would be like for my husband, like I'm very sensitive right now. So you should try this cookie. And like, I think everyone was very aware. I was just like, overall, just, you know, going through a thing. And so I think if you just set it up for that, be like, you know, dad's going through something right now, try this grip, you know, like. Just. Oh my gosh, I love that. So I mean, I could have gotten some, I'm good. I'm good at feedback when I'm ready for it. And so if I usually say, like, oh, if I ask, like, what do you think would be better about this cookie? Like more chocolate chips, less chocolate chips? Like, I think I've trained my husband and like my parents well enough to know, like wait for me to ask for some feedback. Or sometimes they'll ask like, you want some feedback? I'm like, no, but thank you. Maybe tomorrow positive feedback only in this moment is what I'm looking for. Exactly. That alone is a very important piece of advice. I think sometimes like for the people in our lives, when you're going through a thing to be explicit about what you're going through and what, why you're doing a thing. And I think sometimes that feels a little bit raw, but then also it's setting you and your friends up for success to be like, I'm very clearly doing this because I'm going through a thing. So, you know, let's just enjoy it for what it is right now. Yeah. Yeah. And at the end of the day, it's cookies and ribs, and it's like it could still eat it. Yeah. You still accomplish something. I'm curious what the extension, I guess, of that advice is. So you've gone through it now. And if I'm not mistaken, you're really enjoying, you know, where you landed and enjoying the work. As you look back at that time, do you feel like there were other things that you did that were a success or kind of led you through it and led you to what you eventually found? I hate this saying is like, I hate those. I hate those. I'm ready. I'm ready to get ready to hate me. It's everything works out in the end. Like people would tell me that and be like, stop it. You know, like that's not what I need to hear right now. But in reality, it is. And I think I never enjoy my time when I'm in between jobs or getting laid off because I don't know. I feel like at the time in the past when that happened, it's such a huge like who I am and my personality is my job. And like that shifts throughout your life. And I'm really into going on about that. But I think the best thing that I did, though, was just do stuff that made me happy during that time. And that was baking and going on walks and doing little react components or things like that because I don't know. I think a huge part of me to be to feel successful is being happy. And so that really just like tick the box is funny. Yeah, I I always think it's so funny. The the challenge of communicating with the people in your life about the hard things that they're going through, right? Because you want to motivate them, but at the same time, you want to instill confidence in them and do your best not to like kind of like just fall into the hole trying to like pull them out, right? But so many times it does kind of come across as a little unknowing, I guess. And I think that's something that stood out to me so much about like your practical wisdom in saying, hey, just do something you like. Like that that will help. And like I can't say that it's going to make things better, but it will help. And I do love things like that because it's like, hey, like I've been in the hole and like here's something that you can do while you're down there. Yeah, absolutely, too. And when that when I got laid off or when I was in between jobs, someone I can't remember who it was. I don't remember who I was talking to. So if you're out there, thank you. I don't give the full credit for this, but at a brewery or at somewhere and there was like a can of beer or soda on the table. And they said, how much of your job gives you happiness? Like if this whole can of beer is your happiness, like how much of your job is your happiness? And I was like, oh, seventy five percent. And they're like, so seventy five percent of your life, you have to be so happy at work. And if you get laid off, you're only you're not happy. Like that's seventy five percent. And I was like, so that was like such like a slap in the face of, yeah, like I am too obsessed with finding satisfaction and finding happiness from my work. And so I've really worked on that in the past few years of figuring out like where I live is that like 10 percent happiness is like my partner in my family, like how much happiness is that? Now I have like a baby, like, man, that's like my whole can right now. My whole can of beer is my baby. Whole can of beer is my baby. It's the greatest thing I've ever heard. But yeah, but when you chat with people and you say, OK, here's your can, like what percentage, how much happiness and how much joy do you find from your job? And if you love your job and that and it's seventy five percent and you're thriving and that's what makes you happy. That's great. If you love New York City and you have to live in New York City and you won't be happy, that's yours like 50 percent or something like that. So like I learned that a lot when I was wasn't working and looking and just to figure out how how much I care about things in my life. And that kind of put it more into perspective of of everything for me at least. Yeah, yeah, I love that. How is that kind of changing now? And does that impact kind of how you think about work? You know, I think you said that you're happy where you landed. But, you know, as you change that, do you feel a sense of like insecurity about how you approach your work? You know, if you're if you're actively reducing the percentage of your beer can that, you know, is work? Definitely, because when I was like, oh, yeah, seventy five percent. That's where I find all my joy is work. I was just like burnt out, not realizing like how hard I was working and how much I was like, I need to finish this project on time or I cry. I don't know. It's just it really put in perspective. But then they're like, oh, I have my review coming up. Like, if they notice that I'm dialing back because I'm trying to find more happiness, like walking my dog, spending time with other people. Like, how does that work? And so I think just having an open conversation with your manager or whoever you report to, whoever you're going through work with is a big one to be to say either I'm burnt out or like I'm kind of adjusting my workflow that my happiness like I'm still going to get everything done on time and blah, blah, blah, but I'm a huge open communicator. I probably communicate too much. So I think just having those conversations of like, I need to spread my happiness a little bit more across my life than where it's at right now. Yeah. And that is an important conversation that I think a lot of us don't have early enough is that that concept of motivation and kind of like being committed, but to a degree, right? And in that being OK and that being how commitment looks like for you at this phase in your life, we could talk about that all day, I think. Yeah. Well, this is awesome. I wanted an opportunity mostly just to cheer the wisdom that you've shared with me with others and just say thank you. Because I think, yeah, in a very real way, I couldn't have navigated this kind of emotionally without the support that you gave me in that conversation that you have with Jen. So thank you for being someone who is, as you said, just very open with their feelings and, yeah, blabbering now. But thank you. No, no, I'm so I'm so glad because I've I've been there. I know how hard it is and I'm just so glad it helps. Well, awesome. Erin, thank you so much for your time. I'm glad that you made time to join me for this like conversation. And I really do hope that it helps other people where can people find you and kind of, you know, so they can follow along with what's going on in your life and and the way you see it. Yeah, I'm on the X, the Twitter. I'm mostly there still hanging out. I think it's it's it's kind of like going to come back, right? A little bit. I think so. Yeah. So I mean, you know, there's some cool video stuff, you know, Salma and Jason have been making some really cool videos lately that have been very personal. So yeah, I think I think there's some there's some gold to find there right now. It's Twitter at Aaron. Oops, so it's Aaron Fox with two O's. Love it. Love it. Thank you so much for your time, Erin. And yeah, I will see you again soon. Yeah, anytime.