 Welcome to the Monday, June the 6th, 2022 meeting of the Montpelier Design and Review Committee. We'll let members and staff introduce themselves. Eric Gilbertson. Benjamin Cheney, Member. Meredith Crandall, Staff. Steven Everett, Member. Let's present member. Okay, we have five in attendance. I will let Meredith review remote meeting procedures at this point. All right, so I am going to be sharing my screen. The shared screen is mostly for anybody who is attending or attending watching your work or media. But the directions are going to be helpful for anybody who's attending remotely. Joe, this should be very familiar to you. Alrighty. So for those viewing this meeting via Orca media, you can participate in tonight's design review committee meeting via the Zoom platform, either through the video or telephone access options. So you can use this link here. You can place that into your web browser and it should log you right into the meeting, or you can call into the meeting using this phone number and this meeting ID. If anyone's having problems logging in, please email me at mcrandall at Montpelier hyphen vt.org. I will be keeping my email up through the meeting so that I can assist you in trying to log in. If you're attending via Zoom, turning on your video is optional for everyone attending, please keep your microphone on mute when you're not speaking. And please refrain from using the chat function except for troubleshooting or logistics questions. Tonight so far all we have on our applicants so I'm not going to go through most of the rest of this. Everything else is pretty good. In the event the public is unable to access the meeting. It will be continued to a time and place certain. Because we did list accessing remotely as a general way to participate in the meeting. I'll now hand the meeting back over to the chair. Unless anyone has anything to add at this time do I hear a motion to approve our agenda. I'll second it. All in favor of the agenda speak your names. Eric. Martha. Liz. Steve. The agenda is approved. We can move to the first application for 137 Elm Street owner applicant fallen speed properties. Is someone here from fallen speed. Hold on one second Peter I'm going to turn up the speakers on this end for some reason it came out pretty quiet. Okay. Whatever you just did do that. Okay I'll do whatever I just did, which is, I don't know. Go ahead and describe your project for us. So, we recently purchased the building and 137 Elm, which consists of two commercial units and one residential unit the residential unit being the third floor apartment. We had before we purchased it we had Chris lumber come over to do an inspection because we wanted to see what the building needed for code. One of the things he mentioned is that the one of the bedrooms is a two bedroom apartment one of the bedrooms did not have an egress route for tenants. So, which was, you know, important because even I think, even if it was a market it has a one bedroom, we can't control people staying in there so we want to make sure that we, you know, make sure that Chris and Chris was, you know, concerned about that too so we looked at the building and the only way to get a egress window and there is to use a casement size window because it's, there's literally no room in between the second floor roofline and the third and and the building roofline to get any window taller than what we have maxed out on here is the 27 and a half so we're going wider so 27 and a half by 47 and a half will give us a casement and a egress code size window. And it also will give us the opportunity we I, we met with the Mason and he'll be able to reinstall a new jack arch above this new window. So it'll match to the other arches over the existing windows so this again is on the third floor rear the building it's it's quite hard actually kind of hard to see. But this is the only option that we after talking to Chris, we came over multiple times and talking with every window maker in the country this is the only window that we can find that will fit and meet code so. If you have any questions. I'm not familiar with the term jack arch. What's that. So that's just the brick arch that goes over windows you'll see I don't know if you can see it actually in the picture that's I sent it's kind of just kind of a small picture but over every window in the building there's a brick arch it's kind of as it's how they did the support they didn't use a I'm not a builder by trade I forget the. You know they did not use a a cell or roof, you know, support over the masonry they built these arches which are basically, you know gravity supported structures and when you do masonry. So it's kind of decorative it kind of you know it looks like you know for you know lame in terms of looks like a fan a brick fan over every window kind of thing. It is made of the same bricks. Yes. Thank you. Depending on the interior of that space and the framing spacing which is frequently 16 inches to spaces or 32. Had there been any thought of leaving the existing window that's there and mounting that egress window, the in the other direction vertically back towards the center of that space. So for that window is it's it's about if you look at the where it's circled. It's only about. I would say 24 inches from the wall. The room does not go to the center line of the building it actually goes over slightly over about about two feet from that window so there's not enough height. We did think of that to get in a vertical sized window. We tried every combination of what would fit. And to where we you know, because again that the window now that we you know it'll be at the flashing line for the second floor roof. It's just very well break first. Yes, if it's bearing wall brick or facade brick. It's very well break. Is there enough space to, obviously it's a fairly short space that you would have to probably lay down and crawl through that window to get out. Well, it's the code says has to be 24 inches so we're going 27 inches tall. And are we 27 inches tall and are we 47 inches wide so it was actually much wider than it needs to be but we figured because of the space we wanted to go as that is as big as we can go wide is that 47 inches to make it is. I don't know if it's a word. The rest of all is possible. But that's the that's the max height we can get there. But it is more than code. The bedroom doesn't occupy that whole space on the gable end. No, no, you mean so on the gable end so that if you look at the center pitch line of the roof. The in the center of the third floor is the staircase going up the rear stairs so it's not. It doesn't go to the center pitch line yeah. Okay, no I didn't I didn't know what was inside of which your other options might be. Where are they going to go when they get out the window that that's the second floor roof line there is a second floor roof. So Chris, that was more than adequate. If there was I couldn't hear. Is there any way down from the second floor roof or is that just a place you can stay until the fireman get a ladder up. Yeah, there's until there's a. There's another way to get down yeah. But from what I understood talking to Chris the code that was acceptable. I think your microphone, like, adjusts once you get started so what did you just say. Look like Liz was talking but she's on mute. Yep you're still on mute Liz. Nope, you're still on mute. There you go. Okay, okay. I mean if that is just one big pane of glass or seeing it would look a little better you know more typical of. I don't know that stage of building if you had at least one vertical pain or months in the middle. So it would look a little more in scale I guess the pains of glass than just one large pain. Yeah, we I looked at the grills and it looked honestly it looked kind of odd. So I didn't order the grill I mean we can always order a grill to put on there if it would look better but the problem with putting the grill on it really because of its shape it bisected it. horizontally to make it and made it look a kind of odd. Well it is the back of the building right. I mean, I took this picture in the winter. You usually actually can't even see it's kind of hard to see that spot. Yeah. Okay, well I was just curious if you looked at other options. Yeah, I looked at, I, you know, if you might know the trouble of getting any window order I, this is coming from a company mill in Iowa is the only place I could find that I would even make one this size because it's extremely custom. Yeah. Okay, thank you. Yeah. Any other questions or comments or suggestions from anyone on the committee. Okay, I'm assuming silence is consent. So I'll go through the criteria for the project on the design review criteria for all projects exterior design and materials of new construction or alterations of existing building should be consistent and compatible with the characteristics of the existing building or other properties in the district. On a there is no room. Well the removal of its historic materials for alteration of features and spaces that characterize an historic property shall be avoided. In this particular case there's a safety need for the egress window character defining features finishes and construction techniques or examples of craftsmanship that characterize as historic building shall be preserved. Any treatments that cause damage to historic materials including but not limited to chemical or physical treatments shall not be approved in this particular cases window is acceptable for the egress purpose. Existing building shall be recognized as a physical record of their time place and use any new development shall be differentiated from the old but shall respect to be compatible with a massing size scale architectural features detailing an overall character of the primary historic building and nearby historic properties acceptable. Attention to buildings called for by public safety accessibility and fire codes shall be designed to maintain the character of the construction materials and features to the maximum extent feasible acceptable in this location. Because of the whatever limitations there are. Proportion compatibility of relationship between width and height of facades as well as relationship of with to height of windows and doors. Again acceptable rhythm visual patterns established by the alterations of solid walls and openings windows and doors and the facade of historic building shall be shall create a rhythm. Patterns of solids and opening shall be preserved to the extent feasible again in this particular location this window is acceptable. Architectural features including but not limited to cornices windows shutters fan lights and tabulator trim and other forms of molding or character defining detailing prevailing on the existing building should be considered in the alteration of a building acceptable. Windows and doors on historic structures character defining windows and door patterns placement sizes proportions and original features such as trim session moldings shall be preserved to the extent possible. When preservation is not possible such character defining windows and doors must be a real rehabilitated or replaced in kind. Windows and doors that are not character defining may be replaced but such replacements must be compatible with the historic building style materials and architectural features again due to limitations and the location at the back of the building. This window is acceptable. All in favor of the application. Speak your names. Yes. Eric. Yes. And Steve. Yes. So the application is approved. So, Peter, because there weren't any recommended changes. We'll get this out to you since possible. Should we mail it and we have it set to be mailed to you or do you want me to have our zoning assistant email you when it's ready so you can come pick it up. It'll be fine. Thank you. Okay, great. We'll do. Thank you everyone. Thank you Peter. Thank you very much and good luck with your project. Thank you. So the next application for 62 Berry street. Washington County mental health removal of a circular metal fire escape and replacement of a door with a window or a wall. Don't forget to speak as close as you can. Okay, I think you have the pictures. Right. Yes. Yes. Okay. I'm going to set out everything I would say there's an old metal spire. Escape. A circular stairway type thing. We don't need it as an egress anymore. The architect has said we're changing the. Fire suppression system. And we're closing off a third floor. And he said it's redundant. Okay. Is there a particular one to propose for the opening? I believe there's a in your packet. There's something from Jason young at Connor. That speaks to the window and the siding. Oh, yeah. Let me pull it up on the screen because it's very small print when it's printed out on eight and a half by 11. I don't know which one is 62. Is that the one on the corner of. No, that's 90. That's nothing. The one that's next to the senior center. Okay. But the parking lot. Right. So that would just be the met would match the opening of the door just a nine pain. I thought that Jason. I'm pulling it up on the screen. Sorry. It's not, we don't have it in our. If you go back to the. The elevation drawing. I'm playing up on the screen. Remove vinyl siding is needed in a place with new vinyl siding colored to match. And it's going to be a double hung window of similar size to the existing double hung windows. To frame in the opening and then finish similar to adjacent windows. So the way this is planned, you wouldn't actually be able to tell there had been a door there previously is what it looks like. Okay. So the, I can pull it up if I need to. The listing of this property in the historic register does not mention this door or the spiral fire escape at all. Quick question. You said suppression is a building sprinkled. It's sprinkled, but we they're putting in some new system that's better than what was in it. Oh, okay. There's a new system. Okay. I was just curious that there wasn't, you know, pertinent to the. The application I was just curious what, what had changed inside. Any other, I think it's an improvement. Yes. It seems to be any other questions, comments or suggestions. I assume you're. Are you also. Well, I'm in this office. No, that will be where we've applied to the letter baitment program to do that. We're on their list. I don't think they'll get to us this year. Okay. As far as the paint, the painting is in part of the application, which is not needed at this point anyway. So we'll review the project for the removal of the door and a replacement with a window of like kind and quality and appearance as the rest of the windows. So exterior design and materials of new construction or alterations of existing building should be consistent and compatible with the characteristics of the existing building or other properties in the district. The removal of a story materials or alteration of features and spaces that characterize and a historic property shall be avoided. The defining features finishes and construction techniques or examples of craftsmanship that characterize an historic building shall be preserved deteriorated character defining features should be repaired rather than replaced. And where the severity of deterioration requires requires replacement of a character defining feature new features shall be replaced in kind acceptable. The existing building shall be recognized as a physical record of their time place and use new development shall be differentiated from the old but show respect to be compatible with the massing size scale architectural features detailing an overall character of the primary historic building and nearby historic properties acceptable. Alterations to buildings called for by public safety accessibility and fire codes. That's acceptable. So the state house dome acceptable where applicable acceptable certainly. Are any of these blacked out or are they all. I mean this is about height of windows and doors and it says opening is to. Okay. This says for parcels with both river and streets. That's not applicable here height, not applicable here. I clearly got. No that's okay way through that one. The version compatibility of relationship between with and height of sides as well as relationship but with to height of windows and doors acceptable rhythm visual patterns established by the alteration of solid walls and openings. The facade of a building should create a rhythm acceptable. Roof shape and equipment that would not be applicable here. The original features including but not limited to cornices windows shutters fan lights and tablet your trim and other forms of molding or character defining detailing prevailing on the existing building shall be considered in the alteration of a building acceptable. Windows and doors on historic structures character defining windows and door patterns placement size proportion and original features such as trim session molding shall be preserved to the extent possible. And when it's not possible character defining windows and doors must be rehabilitated or replaced in kind. That's acceptable porches and stairs on historic structures location of porches ramp stairs shall be placed on a matter that does not impact or undermine the original stairs ramps and portrait shall employees suitable detailing again in this particular case it's being removed. It's acceptable at this location all in favor of the application speak your names. Eric. Yes. Steve says yes so voted the vote is five and to nothing in favor. Mark in the market for a circular metal staircase. I was thinking that we're going to the other person we're just speaking about. We could either sign this since you're here. Yeah. And then we'll get this out. Not need administrative site plans. Thank you. Thank you and good luck with your project. Perfect timing. You're welcome. Our next application is for nine J Street on our applicant is Liz Swinney. So if you want to look to the ground table. Speaking to the microphone. I'd like to describe your application for us. I've been having some water leakage on my front porch area and I've had many people come over and I guess the only way to resolve this is because it's right now above the windows sill above the porch roof. And I think that's the only way to resolve this is to take the siding off the front of the house. And just kind of redo that whole thing. So it's been going on for 10 years. So. That's where I'm at. I don't want to do it, but. I'm not a big fan of vinyl siding. I have aluminum siding on there right now and you can't get aluminum siding to replace it. So the only way that we can replace it is with the vinyl. Well, that would be a lot because I probably have lead paint underneath that. So, and then that would look really awkward with the rest of the house still being siding aluminum siding. And he's getting the same width. Do you know what's underneath the aluminum siding? It's a gray clapboard. But I bought that house 33 years ago. And the people that owned it before, it was already sided with them siding. So I don't know what they were even covering up way back then. So. I'm assuming it's all clapboard. I've never been able to find a picture of what it was. So. I know that my brother took an old house and removed all the aluminum siding that was there and found clapboard underneath. Yeah, it's higher house. Well, that would be such a big project from what Mark said, because then you're dealing with lead paint. So he just suggested that. In order to fix this problem, which I've. Had. Is to take the siding off and repair the rock wood under around the window sills on. But the big window and the. Window above the porch and then figure out where the problem is. Because it leaks straight down from the. Siding down the front porch and then down the. Down the wall, the front porch man down the. Porch. So it's created a big rotting, rotting spot on my porch. Now. And I've had it patched and tried to figure this out. So. So you're not sure where the water is getting in. Is that. You know, why there is a leak. Can you say that one more time? Yes, is there. I don't know. Maybe you mentioned this and I didn't hear it. Has the leak and the location of where the water is entering and causing the damage that's been located. No, and he's been over so many times and has patched like. So many areas all over the porch and under the window sill. So. And he cannot figure it out. And he's. I don't know. I don't know. I haven't seen him in my house before. I'm sorry. My God, I forgot something in the oven. It's pretty. Inadequate flashing. It could be because the person that I had come over to. I'm sorry. Sorry about that. It's okay. It's hard because you want to look at the people you're talking to. The person 10 years ago or so. Who I had come over and do some roof repair. Everyone had told me he put the flashing on wrong. And within the first rainstorm, I had water coming down the side of my. Wall and down the porch. And he said there was nothing wrong. Because it wasn't raining at that time. And there wasn't Rod at that time. And then I still contacted him. Two years ago. And he just never replied or. About that to me. So. So anyways, yeah, it could very cool. Could just be that, but now I think I'm dealing with Rod underneath all my siding. I'm not going to go into that. Because it's been 10 years and. I've, I've addressed this. With many people, Mark, especially he's been so kind coming over and. Trying to figure it out. And now it's going clear across the top of my seat. My porch. Sealing. I would just think that. It's not going to work. It's not going to work. It's not going to work. Well, he said that in order, because the siding, this aluminum siding, he said, you take one piece off, it rolls up like a tin can. This is what he told me. So you can't just take one piece off. To fix the problem. It has to be the whole front of the house. That's what he told me. That's accurate or not. That is what he told me. I really don't want to spend $8,500 to do this, but I don't know what else to do. Because I think if it was a quick fix, I would, I would, someone would have done that for me because I've tried to address this for 10 years. And from what Mark said is that siding just, and it won't go back up. You take one piece off. And it won't go back up. So then. And you said you can't, you can't right now get aluminum siding. That's what Mark said. I haven't looked into it, but he said that he, he can get the vinyl siding. The same width to make it look good. But the only thing when he went to Alan lumber. When we talked, I think it was two years ago, they, maybe it was last year. I can't remember. They had just the plain one. And then when he went to get the cut sheet, it's more of a wood type of looking siding. It's the existing siding. Have that embossing on it. It's just a plain, the existing siding is just a plain, smooth face, or does that have any texture? It's plain. It's plain, smooth face. That is the front of the house. And I mean, I could see what Mark can do if he can search around for stuff. And the emboss siding has a couple of problems versus an absolutely fake appearance. And it also gathers a lot of dirt. Final siding has the problem that it paints soft, soft dirt, but final siding where you gather dirt. And if you've got all those little nooks and crannies for it to work on the other and it will do that. Yeah. Well, well, you know, I'm going to see what he can do to find just the smooth siding, but from. I think he would. I would just, you know, just try taking sewing and cutting off the pieces that are stained above the porch to see what you find underneath there. above the porch rather than take the whole front of the house apart. I mean I don't see I'm not I don't even know what to say to that because I would love to do that but he I really trust this guy. What's his name? His name is Mark Canaman. He's been a builder for many years. Do you know him? I do. And it's not like I don't think and we're friends because we live right next to almost around the corner from each other. Our kids grew up with each other and I really don't think he would tell me that I would need to have the whole front of the house. All that taken down unless it needed to be done but if you guys feel that that's just or maybe he's concerned there's some mold under there and so he wants to check it out. Well I know there's rot especially under the winter cell and there's probably rot behind all the water that's been coming down and created a rotting spot on the floor by porch. So not sadly I think you are going to have to peel away all that to begin to get a sense of what what is going on that day. And I do agree with Mark that like once that stuff comes off is not going back on. That's what he told me. And it's a thing. Yeah. And you can't kind of like patch can't like weave in a little bit here or there. It's it's a I think I understand that and I don't know if the whole thing has to be done it has to be done but it just seems like a lot of work to get it a very localized problem. I think starting with your plan I think you do need to look for some smooth faced siding because it's not otherwise it's not going to match the rest you know I kind of told Mark that I mean he he felt bad about it there's a note on the back of my paper that he had written. Oh, it doesn't scan and print very well. So there's a little note he wrote to me saying that this is all that they had, but I'm sure he's got resources and can try to find. Or, you know, home, I could order it or something. And is he also going to repair or redo the flashing. It's done incorrectly I mean that's maybe what's causing the problem to begin with so I think if it is incorrectly done I think first of all that would you know that's really important to fix. I don't know. I'm assuming he's just going to. He's done it he's done enough projects that he would certainly flash anything that he replaced. I think that when he finds, like I have a feeling I'm going to be paying a lot more than that, than that prices because he's probably going to find a lot of stuff. He's going to strip it and replace whatever is bad and flash it properly when it goes back together. And I'm sure he will do that and maybe he didn't put it in his. And then I assume that you will if you whatever exciting you put back I'm assuming you would paint to match the rest of the house otherwise you have to paint the rest of the house to match the deciding. So we're going with white still. And he's going to put. He had said he's going to put siding around the sill the window frames instead of, because right now I, they're all painted. So, I think that's what he mentioned in there. Yeah, so Mark, so for something that didn't come, it didn't end up in the printed packet so there is a note after the cut sheet for the siding. That says Liz this is the best RK miles could do. Unfortunately this product would have a wood grain, not what they told me they could get by now. He might be able to get something that's the possibility or just go to different suppliers. Right. I'm hoping so. Because of course I wanted to match but And I'm sorry. If you're just going to replace the front I would certainly recommend finding, and you should be able to find a siding that has a surface that matches the rest of the siding on the house so again so that it would match otherwise. If you're going to have a different appearance that's not going to be compatible. Right. Right. I mean your comment about around the windows and maybe you guys can understand what this means. It said install new the white eight inch final siding and channel around windows so that would change how it looks. The channel around the windows is for siding just butts up against the existing casings around the window. If the casings around the window or rotten, then you would pull that all off and replace that with either wood or material that has the same appearance. It would need to be flashed and then they'll put the channel around that and then the siding goes into the channel. So that that's pretty standard material. And he would certainly do that and then again all that flashing and again the flashing on the porch roof would come off the roof and go up underneath the siding so that it. It channels the water away from any place that would tend to leak. It sounds like there's a collection of problems that are that are there and again, once you remove that siding you have to remove the siding to figure out what's going on and make repairs underneath. And then again you can't. You would never be able to pull off all that siding and replace it so you would have to I mean replace it with the same material you'd have to put something new up there. Right. Yeah. It's flashing as it's coming off the main roof and getting the portrait. It's splashing up on that. Right, you can see the water stains now on the house more. So it's probably going to be some right he's going to have to fix, I'm assuming, but I don't know. I would think so you never know, until you pull off the siding that's there and find out what's underneath. Right, right. And there's no way to, there's no good way to fix it without doing that. Yeah, anything else you're just covering up what's what may be bad. Right and it's, I've been dealing with this for 10 years so it's not like I haven't addressed it and just been like, oh well. Now it's, it's such an issue, and Marcus has been. I pretty much had to beg him to come over. And so anyways, the other thing is I could just sell the place and move and let it be someone else's problem but Well, unfortunately, the inspection report that would show show that and reduce your potential sale price by either that or the buyer would want you to fix it before they bought it. One of the other would reduce the sale price of the house so you in one way you're protect protecting your investment. Yeah, by fixing it. Exactly. And then if you're happy with it, you can stay there. Also, once you've got all that wood exposed, you can do some little home tests to see if there really is lead paint and if there isn't, other options might open up right later on down the line. The positive is lead paint from what my next door neighbor, less mirror noise told me. Yeah, because some siding had fallen off the back near the porch and he could see the gray wood and we put up some leftover siding from someone else's house to go up there. And but you can't even see it. It's yellow. Yeah, but at least it's there. But, you know, he's an expert. And he was looking at it like, Oh yeah, he's already told me. Yeah, but who knows what will happen. Any other comments questions or suggestions, other than a recommendation that the replacement siding have the same surface finish to match the remainder of the signing aluminum siding on the on the dwelling. You should, it should, it should be available. Might have to look a little harder for it, but it should be available. Right. Okay, I'll let him know that. Any other suggestions. And again the one. Again, you'll know a lot more when you take what's there off and find out where the problem areas are. And then you'll have a better idea of how to deal with, with those leaks and prevent that. Right. So we'll go through the criteria for this one exterior design and materials of new construction or alterations of existing buildings should be consistent and compatible with the characteristics of the existing building or other properties in the district. The removal of historic materials or alteration of features and spaces a characterize an historic property shall be avoided. Character defining features finishes and construction techniques or examples of craftsmanship to characterize historic building shall be preserved. The deteriorated character defining features shall be repaired rather than replaced with a severity of deterioration requires replacement of a character defining feature. The new feature shall be replaced in kind and in this case you're replacing siding with trying to do something with the existing aluminum on the rest of the building. Acceptable existing building shall be recognized as a physical record of their time place and use. Architectural features shall be differentiated from the old but shall respect and be compatible with the massing size scale architectural features detailing an overall character of the primary start building and thereby start properties acceptable. Architectural features, including the not limited to cornices windows shutters fan lights and tabulator trim and other forms of molding or character defining detailing prevailing on the existing building. This is considered in the alteration from the building acceptable. And again, the recommendation is that the replacement, any replacement siding have the same surface finish to match the remaining aluminum siding on the dwelling. And with that recommendation, all in favor speak your names. Eric, Steve, I'm a reluctant yes, I hope that something can be done once you get in and see what is. Okay. And Liz. So it's approved five. Nothing in favor. So, Liz, so the making the siding on the front match with the finish right the flat, the others is going to end up being a permit condition to issue the permit. So if you're comfortable signing off on that you can sign the form on this now. You want to confirm with mark and make sure that you can actually get that by checking various suppliers you can wait to sign off on this. Because you do have the option of appealing that. If you don't think if you really don't think you can get that flat finish, just want to make sure you're aware of all your options here. Right. Right. If you want to think and talk to mark tomorrow, you can I can put a note on here. I won't be in the office that order will be. And so you can decide, you know, confer with mark and then sign this once you know you can agree to that recommendation. Right. So if he can't like, even if he looks around and can't find it what will happen. If you can't find that and you can't meet this, then what you can do is say you want to appeal to the development review board and get on the next agenda that you can for that meeting. There'd be probably the next meeting that would be July, like 18th. Before you get for the development review board. I would check with some of the larger suppliers. I mean, they're mark and check for your suppliers. I mean, I don't know. I don't want to go either way. If you sign this. And then I'm, we're pretty much going to issue the permit within the next two days. But if you then can't get that flat siding. And you put the textured stuff up on the front of the building. It's a violation of a zoning permit. Right. Which you don't really want to go through that hassle. No. So I would touch base with mark and do a hunt for that flat. Yeah. Check with mark hunt for the flat face. Smooth finish on the siding. And then you could come in if he can find it. You can come in a day or two. And just sign it. And then we'll get it out as quickly as we possibly can. And he can order it. Right. You already have this. Okay. If he can find that flat finish siding. He can order it. Because it's not going to get here before we get you the zoning. Right. One second. Okay. All right. So, um, Well, chances are you probably won't answer me tonight. This will be with Audra on her desk. I'll put it there with notes tonight before I leave. So she has it. She knows what's going on. So that if you come in. Yes, Mark found it. You can sign this and then she can move forward with issuing the permit. Okay. Okay. All right. So that's probably the best way to go about doing that. I think so. Okay. All right. Well, thank you so much for your time. Thank you very much for coming and good luck with your project. Okay. Thank you. Moving forward for the next application for one oh six East State Street. Owner Henry hunt applicant. Joe Kiernan. Demolition of addition to original building at construction of a larger addition at the same location. Every construction of exterior decks and exit stairs is someone here representing one oh six. I am. Yes. Joe Kiernan. He's on. Okay. Go ahead and describe their project for us. All right. Thank you members of the committee. My name is Joe Kiernan. I'm representing the owner of one oh six was Henry. And also my father-in-law. I'm going to share my screen here. So you can see what I'm talking about. Okay. So these are existing renderings of the present situation. So you can see my mouse. Can you see my mouse? Yes. Okay. So this area back here that you can see is supported by steel posts as an addition on the older house. I'm not sure about the age of this addition. But at some point after its construction, the previous owner who we bought the building from constructed this rather elaborate stairwell system. And porch system. Which enabled him to turn this attic into a one bedroom apartment. This is the only way to maintain access. That didn't go through enough. So this entire deck system was actually permitted, which I found a little surprising. But basically the construction of it has created a situation where these posts that are supporting the addition are not sufficient. They're not a real foundation. They're basically just concrete blocks on posts. And. So that's one issue. And then it probably would have been, fine on its own if it had not then been given this massive deck on top, which these posts literally just rests directly on the roof. There's some like tar put around them. They're trying to weatherproof them. But the entire weight of this thing is just too much for the foundation for the support. It's not a foundation. It's just these steel posts. And there is some slight sagging that's starting to go on in the roof here. And most importantly, the roof has recently started leaking. I can't fix the roof without removing the entire deck. I can't remove the entire deck, you know, easily. First of all, and also maintain access to this apartment. So right now the apartment is actually not occupied and will remain that way. Until we get the situation figured out. And obviously for the tenant living in here, they have a leak. It's a small leak that doesn't leak very often, but it's not going to get any better. So when confronted with our options. We basically decided that the best thing to do is. Just tear it all down, remove this entire dish and remove the entire deck system. And then we're going to have to move the entire deck. And then we're going to have to tear it down, remove this entire dish and remove the entire deck system and rebuild it. Like. New, you know, or a similar, but no. So I'm just going to scroll back through here. To the proposed rendering. Okay. So this is the proposed rendering. Which there's very similar, but you can see some subtle difference. Firstly, this deck will be built for professionals. So we've landed about nine feet, I think, or maybe 11 feet out. So total width now from the house of 20 feet towards the rear. This is going to let us have a lot bigger bedroom up in here. A lot bigger living space up in here. And then because of the nature of the steep slope behind the building. I had to Wolf engineers do a geotechnical analysis. SW called it the actual geotechnical analysis. And we actually determined digging out a basement. Is not only not much more expensive than just putting in a regular foundation frost wall, but also it reduces the amount of weight that's up here on top of the hill because you're moving all the dirt that's inside the basement. Which helps as far as. The building potentially sliding off the hill, which has happened to other buildings in the area. So that's why we went through the effort of having a full geotechnical analysis done and foundation designed by an engineer. So that's kind of the overview of the project. Like I said, it pretty much has to be done in one form or another. The only other real option I have, I think, is to just tear it off the building and not rebuild it, but that would severely cut into the amount of income that we expected to get from this rental property. So as far as things that you guys are going to probably be concerned about, we're proposing all wood trim. So we haven't bought any of the materials yet, obviously, because with the prices of lumber fluctuating so greatly. We were basically told by RK Miles, we could either spend $62,000 and buy it all right now, or we could kind of roll the dice and see what everything costs when we actually need it. So we decided to roll the dice on that. The only thing we have bought so far, because they have like a 15 week lead time are the windows. So this side is the direct rear of the building. This picture could be taken from like the top of one of the trees back there. It's all wooded back there. There's no houses and these are going to be casement windows that we're proposing. They swing out like a barn door 90 degrees. They do count for egress in the event of fire. But I know that the rest of the house has double hung windows. We are proposing one double hung window. I guess there isn't really a rendering of it, but it's on this side, which if you're facing the rear of the building is on the right side. So the, I guess there's two double hungs here. The two windows that are going to be facing the neighbor next door will be double hung windows. But the ones that face just directly out back here. Are all casement windows siding. We're expecting to match the existing siding some kind of wood, you know, plank siding. And yeah, I guess that's the whole project paint will be matched to the rest of the house. So do you guys have any questions for me? Will you be adding a new living center? A living unit at the bottom there. Not a unit, but the one bedroom, the existing one bedroom will become a two bedroom with a base, a basement bedroom. I see. So that's better. Just the large. You know, there'll be some storage down there. And it'll be a pretty large bedroom actually. It just happened to be convenient as far as we had to dig a very large hole already for the frost wall. It's not really for frost, it's more to get through the fill there into the native hill material. And since we were already digging down that far, it was a percentage wise, not a large increase to do a full foundation. And that let us just have such a large space on that we decided to put a bedroom down there instead of cramming two of them up into the upstairs. Yeah. Yeah. So were you able to tell when that whole decking system was added to the house? There is a zoning permit for it, Meredith. I'm not sure if you remember, I don't have it with me. But it was not too long ago, maybe 15 years ago, something like that. Yeah. So there was a whole series of issues. This was before my time. I've done some research on the permit history previously. And I think the decking system may have been something that was permitted after the fact on a bill, both a building permit and zoning permit situation. So it's, yeah, I don't know all the ins and outs of that. And that would have been well before my time here. I actually have an update. It will occur under this proposal. It will be a lot better and safer. Yeah. Like a real railing, not fencing or a garden trellis material. And we are having a structural design done too, to transfer the load from the top deck all the way down through the actual load bearing beams and things into the foundation. Whereas right now it just sits on top of the roof. And it won't stay there forever. So what are the units are in this building now? There are four. There's a one in the front first floor, the whole second floor is the unit, the attic, and then this unit that we're talking about right now. What is your own. We, like I said, we haven't actually bought materials yet. So I didn't have anything in particular that I was thinking of because I'm not sure if it would be a pressure treated lumber. I'm sure for the posts. I'm not sure yet if it would be a composite or a pressure treated lumber decking material, but it would look like wood almost certainly the stairs will all be that metal, great stairs. That's, well, it's kind of unclear if it's required, but it's recommended for exterior stairs because they don't require shoveling. So if someone isn't shoveling and then they have to exit the house, they didn't shovel, they can still get out of the house. They don't look the best, but that's what's required. So yeah, it will probably depend on price, whatever we end up with the, you know, the deck and durability to the composite materials don't need to be repainted all the time and stuff like that. So since this is a rental unit, that probably go with the more durable material right now. It's some kind of untreated lumber that's like rotting. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The contractor said six months and we're supposed to start. At the beginning of July. Anyone on the committee have any comments, questions, suggestions? I'm good. Certainly is. Yes. Yeah, it's going to cost almost as much as the house did, which we didn't expect for three years ago, but it's going to cost as much as the house did. Yeah. So that's what the other things are now. Another one, I think there's an improvement. Well, when you're dealing with weeks and materials that are starting to ride, you have to do something. And this seems like a very. Logical aggressive, but logical. Approach to solving a number of problems and creating some issues. And then you know, I think I'm going to have to stop it up to two bedrooms is. Try and get some of this money back, but. To be probably honest, I'm not sure that we ever will. Probably would have been cheaper to just tear it off the building. Depends on how long you live. Exactly. Exactly. So really, my father, how long he lives, he says he plans on living until he's 95. At that point, it might actually be a pretty good deal. Well, it's a good investment for the future, whatever that may be. Yes. I'll go down far as the town is concerned. Yeah, it'll be. It'll be good. Good. I'll go down through the criteria for all projects, exterior design and materials of new construction or alterations of existing buildings shall be consistent and compatible with the characteristics of the existing building or other properties in the district. I'll go through the criteria for all projects. Additions and alterations to non-historic and non-contributing structures shall respect and be compatible with existing patterns and setbacks found in adjacent buildings. New additions on non-historic and non-contributing structures that overshadow or diminish the story character of adjacent contributing structures are prohibited. This is acceptable. Existing building shall be recognized as a physical record of existing buildings acceptable. Height of building additions shall not overwhelm the primary facade. I must consider varied heights of existing buildings and adjacent buildings acceptable. Proportion compatibility of relationship between height, width and height of facades as well as relationship of width to height of windows and doors acceptable. Rhythm visual patterns established by the alterations of solid walls and openings. Windows and doors in the facade of a building shall create a rhythm. This addition is acceptable. Roof shape and equipment. Consider similarity or compatibility with roof shapes in immediate area. Conceal rooftop equipment and features on flat roasts from high level from adjacent public right away and from the ground level of adjacent properties. This addition is acceptable. Architectural features including but not limited to cornices, windows, shutters, fan lights, and tabulator trim and other forms of molding or character defining detailing prevailing on the existing building shall be considered in the alteration of a building acceptable. And all in favor of the application is presented. Speak your names. Eric. Ben. Martha. Yes. Yes. And Steve says yes. So that's five to zero in favor. Joe, could you take off your screen chair? I think. How do I do that? I need to be in the zoom window probably. I might be able to, I can also just stop it. There we go. So, I sent you the comments we got from department of public works about the erosion control plan. Yes. So we need to, Audra and I need to actually do the full site plan report document, which is kind of like a mini staff report. The same for the DRB. But because there's no recommendations on this form from for DRC, I don't need you to sign that. So it's basically just in orders of my court to do that admin site plan incorporating. Kurt's comments. Okay. So we need to, you know, that, and that you need to follow the section 3008 general standards for a version control. So I just need to, we need to pull that together and then we should be able to issue this permit now that we have DRC's sign off. Great. I know you can't know for certain, but do you have a maybe approximate date in mind? I'm hoping this week. Oh, great. Okay. Yeah, I'm hoping to get to it this week. Yeah. I'm hoping to get to it as soon as possible. Do you want us to email you when that's already, just so that we don't have to rely on the mail to get it to you since you're here in town? You want to just pick it up? Sure. Yeah, I'll come pick it up. Okay. Awesome. All right. Thank you all very much. Thank you very much. And good luck with your project. Thank you. Bye. I have a good night. Good night. Okay. Is everyone had a chance to look at the meeting minutes from May 2nd and the 16th? Yes. I'll make a second. I need the motion that we accept from the way they are. To hear some. All in favor of the main second minutes. Speak your names. Eric. Martha. Steve. Eight seconds approved. How about May the 16th? I'll make the same motion to approve them the way they're written. I'll make a second. All in favor of the May 16th minutes. Speak your names. Eric. Martha. That was. That one. Okay. So May 16th is approved. Does anyone have anything else to add at this point? I guess I'd like to say something. We're having a public hearing on June 14th. For the first draft to the guidelines. So. I think it'd be good if the designer of your members took a look at them. We can send your comments to Meredith, right? Yep. So I sent everybody an email. End of last week that has a link to the online version of the design guidelines. So you can go through that way. I think I included also a link to the city's. Web page on it, which has a link to a downloadable PDF. PDF. You can't see all of the like photos and options, but you'd get to see all the text that's in the guidelines. We would love your feedback. If you can, you know, written comments, if that's what you can do, if you want to attend the presentation on the 14th, and we're trying to get all the, get as much public input as possible. That would be great. But the design review committee will be referencing these. I'm sure once they're. Approved as policy by the city. It's taking the place of the old city's scape workbooks. None of it should be surprising. We've the historic preservation commission really tried to. Have illustrations that reflect. What's already been going on and that. Merges with the actual regulations to give good examples, but it would be great to have your input both on the content and how it works. We're doing it before it's actually complete for. Several reasons. One is to meet the timing required by the grant, but. Basically it's so people can feel they're really going to have meaningful input because we can. Easy to change things. This is a draft. Okay. Anything else? Or do I hear a motion to adjourn? Move. Second. All in favor of adjournment. Speak your names. Eric. Martha. Steve. Liz. Meeting is adjourned. Thank you all for coming. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. All in favor of adjournment. Speak your names. Eric. Martha. Steve. Liz. Meeting is adjourned. Thank you all for coming. Thank you.