 What's going on guys? I'm here with Devin and before we get started we gotta do a makeup check Alright, alright makeup check. Okay. Okay Let me get a wet wipe You got it. Yeah What's going on guys, I'm here with Devin, but before we get started. I gotta do a makeup check for you clowns Yeah, you gotta get the makeup check in No bronzer Looking sharp. All right, so Devin has been commenting on my YouTube videos for two months He's been a very open-minded vegan for two months and then out of the blue a week ago. He said I'm going V I'm not vegan anymore. I'm trying meat and I was like, oh my god I got to get this guy on my channel because I Feel like I was one of the main reasons that he kind of he kind of switched over in general so I'm gonna kind of let him take it away and Kind of start off with kind of the positive message He wanted to portray as well as kind of how I tied into the questioning of his beliefs Right, right. So I mean the thing is is of course your videos have definitely been influential for me But at the same time they've been a point of contention for me within myself I think for vegans a lot of the times we hear information and it's really hard to Accept that because it contradicts what we believe so Me in my past I've been vegan for seven years. I spent a lot of time on the internet keyboard worrying I've been you know t-shirt activism. I have probably made I don't even know how many people go vegan just based off of wearing my vegan t-shirt at the gym because I were pretty decent appearance and so now I'm kind of I'm at this crossroad where I realized that hey, you know I Unintentionally was leading people down a road that they may not know how to handle themself Now I don't want to sit here and talk crap about vegan So I do understand why somebody would go vegan But now it's at a point for me where I realized that my health is Has always been my primary reason for my dietary choices even becoming vegan for me Really when I first started I was mind-blown of the idea of even being able to eat just solely plants And so I transitioned into that lifestyle to alleviate myself from the typical Nonsense that we all suffer from food corporations industry and ultimately for me. It was an eating disorder So when I found the plant-based diet, it was really like a life-saving turn of events for me. Now, however In the long run, I will say that I appreciate what I did learn But in some sense something that is healthy at one point may not be helpful for the rest of my life This was over seven years ago Right, right. So seven years seven years. I never did cheats. I never did any of that and I ate a quite a healthy diet I mean The thing that I did like about your videos But I also hated about your videos was that it criticized my diet and it made me go Well, where am I getting that that nutrient from and so I really in my last days of plant-based I started really creating a variety that I had never tried before So even in that aspect any vegans watching if you go through Frank's videos You can see some of his criticisms and check your nutrients go. Hey, you know what? Where am I getting iodine from where am I getting zinc from where am I getting etc. from so I think that even within that benefit It triggered me to a point that I went, you know I need to self-analyze and I realized after really ultimately after Changing my diet that some things were not quite right And I didn't understand it at first because I almost became normalized to the way that I started feeling I before we go into into you transitioning from vegan to eating meat again How did going vegan and that seven years of vegan kind of change your life from having the eating disorder of bulimia? so One of the biggest things for me it was the entire mindset of giving yourself good things Right rather than just being in the mind frame of trying to deny yourself the bad You know give yourself the good and then it'll slowly push out the bad and so ultimately I think it's very common for People who are bulimic that processed food will get you, you know They dig the addictive nature of those foods and so when I took a hold of this idea of you know Consuming live foods, you know and taking that life into myself and just being able to get that breath of fresh air to finally Go okay, you know These industries are creating these products to keep me trapped. However, I can escape this fate by Changing my dietary choices That was a big stepping stone for me my compulsive eating Eating fruit and vegetables was my biggest way to help me get you see even having food in my stomach Because people who are bulimic know that even that feeling alone is depressing You really have to rewire your entire brain your mindset of not Indulging on if you eat one Dorito chip. Well, there you go. He screwed it up. You need to eat the whole bag You know, so my mind went from a very corrupt very I would say self Depriving mindset to something that I found that I felt was more beautiful and just the plans the nature and the way that I made me feel So you were happier and more comfortable stuffing yourself full of plant foods, you know, you didn't feel like you were doing anything bad almost um I'm I've always been on like anyone else. We all know right plant foods healthy eat your fruits and vegetables etc etc So if I'm going to feel like crap right trying to get used to this this feeling of being full the plants were my option and it helped me But you literally did this diet for seven years, right? No, was there any sort of like progression over the seven years? Did your thoughts change or like do you want to take us through that? So I did progress so even just before I ever became vegan. I started vegetarian and I started learning more along the lines and I started off way back in the era of the durian rider the 30 bananas a day. I mean it's to the point where I went back to an old website Whatever the website was and I was looking at some of my comments on there. I'm like, what was I what was I eating? Back then or you know, you go through some of the forms and you recall Exactly, what was that? But over time I started finding more Technique to it. I guess more juicing. That was a big thing So I think there are different subsections or levels of Vegas veganism I guess in terms of the diet that I could say that got me to more Nutritious foods within the plant-based diet Have you tried like did you ever go completely raw for a period of time? Or have you mostly incorporated both raw and cooked vegan foods for a period of time? so a good experience with that or a funny funny story with that I Raw vegan is always considered to be like the optimal the epitome of you know discipline and health, right? So I've always struggled to get there and the time that I did do all raw was not a good experience Neither for me or my wife. And so in that time frame She actually lost her period which Was ironic because I had seen that before that. Hey, you know There's women who lose their periods when they just eat all raw plants and what's unfortunate is people brag about it And they're happy about it. Not not everybody. That's all right. Yeah, and It's not normal But if some of these things become normalized then people are more accepting to go, okay Well, you know, yeah, it's happening to everybody, but it's a warning sign to me You know and so even now at this point where I've eaten the healthiest vegan diet that I could possibly eat I'm having warning signs. How long did you go on raw vegan for? I? tried that for about a month of just strictly no processed food and Yeah, about a month One thing that's very common with raw vegan people is that they think a raw vegan diet is going to heal themselves and Every single time they just can't stick to it. They go vegan. They don't last they have to go back to cooked foods Happens with every single vegan. They think going raw is gonna fix their stomach fix their health And in some cases it's a temporary remedy but then they have to go back to the other foods because their body is just not getting enough calories let alone nutrients and this ties into raw primal a little bit because As with humans the need for cooked food and higher caloric foods Takes a precedent in a lot of cases most people lack a raw primal with just meat and fat Generally speaking They will at some point either go into cooked foods or they will start consuming carbohydrates like dairy milk and fruit There to my understanding. I have not heard of any Raw primal people on a raw meat diet that stick to just raw meat and animal fat I mean, maybe Derek Nantz does but I know he salts his food I know that he does a couple things that most raw primal guys advocate against but not to detract from that too much So you try you've tried raw vegan. You've tried cooked vegan. You know your wife even lost her period So was there anything else worth noting kind of in that seven-year period? I would say that something worth noting within the idea of raw vegan, right? It's such a disciplined thing, but it's ignoring something very intuitive that your body is screaming out to you about it's very hard to stay raw vegan because you are not getting all the nutrients that you should be getting and It's not because you're weak. It's not because you aren't trying hard enough. It's because it is hard To be malnourished for a long period of time, right? And so rather than me necessarily even here, you know paying attention to that it was something where I almost thought okay Well, maybe I'm just not trying hard enough and I think that's where some people get trapped into Trying it again and again and again and depleting their nutrients, you know so so on and so forth I think I've mentioned that in a couple of my videos where it's never the vegan diets fault It's never the diet. It's always the person. Yeah, they always right in the person They never think that something could be wrong with the diet when it's staring them in the face Right, right. You know, we kind of touched on your vegan past a little bit You did bring up 30 banana a day thing, but that wasn't too unrealistic for you. Was it? Oh, no, not at all I mean it was to the point that I made a t-shirt that I had 10 bananas a day and people would compliment her all the time They'll go oh, do you really eat 10 bananas a day and to me it was normal. Yeah I mean like for breakfast for breakfast just for breakfast alone. I wonder if a normal person Could eat 10 bananas in the morning or it would take a few like weeks to months of adapting to the vegan diet I want that makes me curious. I feel like you'd be sick after one or two, you know Yeah, I mean like like anybody else. I always throw them in blenders, you know Oh, that's right. You mentioned that. Yeah, right, right. And I mean and to me I thought it was healthy. I made sense especially I would add greens right and I'd add about 300 grams of spinach with that and I would down about two and a half mason jars almost in one sitting and Every morning every morning and I thought it was great But this this what was in this smoothie man? Because this is one of my pet peeves is people who make delicious fruit smoothies and then they put spinach in it If you guys do that, I'm gonna be in your closet at night. I'm gonna be like the boogie man. I swear. I What did you so just tell tell me what you put in that shake? I'm curious bananas spinach Yeah, no, that's it banana spinach and water because and did it taste good? I can honestly say I like the taste of it, but it would have been better without the spinach Maybe it would have been better. You could have had a nice spinach salad after but you didn't That's what bugs me man. That's have your spinach salad for lunch, dude. You don't have to have it for breakfast That's what bothers me. That's the money. Okay. All right. Yeah. No, no, I get what you're saying I get what you're saying. Um, I think Taste is one thing and when you think you're trying to do something helpful is another thing You can you can disregard certain tastes and you're like, yeah, I need to get my spinach in I'm gonna throw it in with the bananas so I can just kind of taste, you know, wash the taste out and go with it You know, there was a period of time when I was on One out back when I was bodybuilding There was a point where I was on what I thought was a really clean bodybuilding diet and I would have those big shakes, too I would take like apples bananas I think I took some vegetables some lemon juice Blended it all together in these big shakes and I thought it was being so healthy with all the fruits and vegetables I was I went down that road two once I keep I forgot to mention that um until my friend blender broke at least Right. Yeah, and it's it's weird because you have to consume such a high amount of volume with a plant-based diet Right, but there's water in it and then there's fiber in it And so things like blenders and that's the reason why people end up consuming these mass amount of foods because you have to Get that many calories and it's very hard to sit there and choose so people blend it up drink it and then call it good And this and one of the points you mentioned later, although We don't really want to go into it too much is meat eaters poop stinks, but vegans doesn't oh, yeah When you're they're not they're eating so much food such a high volume of food. They're not even digesting it, right Right, right, and I mean, I don't know if you want me to go into that now, but it is a reality I've even said that and people go oh so wow vegans literally think their shit doesn't stink You know and I'm like no, I'm serious, but when I look back at it again, I normalized it at the time It was at a point where I'd eat so much fruit where watermelon for instance I would flush a toilet bowl full of watermelon because I would just poop out the food, right? Or I would just poop out literally the the oatmeal and it's a point where not always But enough times to where it is alarming even chunks of apples chunks of hemp seed or you know A piece of hemp seed and you go wow, I'm eating clean. I'm eating so clean that I'm not even pooping poop anymore I'm pooping food. Yeah, I mean guys fruit is so refreshing fruit juice is so delicious, but humans That doesn't work too well in our digestive systems in a lot of cases But one you know even in rumen and animals Cow shit stinks, you know, there's a reason you say what it smells like someone killed a dog in here You know, it smells like a barnyard like it's not a good smell Even in rumen and animals their poop doesn't smell good So why should humans on a vegan diet and you're saying your poop smells good? Like your shit doesn't stink that doesn't make sense from any animals perspective I mean, it's one thing if you know your poop This is a really silly topic to be Sciencey about but your poop is supposed to smell like a rotten version of what you ate You know, you should be able to smell some of what you ate in it But if you're just pooping out sweet potatoes as whole sweet potatoes, then, you know, what's the point? So I think we spoke on that plenty, but I guess we could kind of so we could kind of segue into Your experience with the raw meat diet, but since And then we could because that's gonna be a shorter discussion I guess then veganism as a whole right so let's kind of talk about again And it's only been literally a week for you. So I guess kind of walk us through That that moment of realization and that moment you decided, okay Like was it a video that was it my video that triggered it was an accumulation that triggered it What was that moment that? You know, it's like a you're you just snapped almost right so it's Hard and I mean if there's anybody who's vegan right now who's watching this I can understand how difficult it is because you are caught between two paradigms and you almost lose like who am I? You know, what am I doing? What am I trying to be right now? and That transition actually took me this maybe it took me almost a month or two months of just really Thinking about it, you know, and it's not easy for people, you know And when people make like anti-vegan videos or whatever It makes it harder for the audience member as a vegan sometimes to appreciate the information Because you feel attacked and so just as human sometimes we shell up right when we when we feel attacked But I'm like, how do I break how do I think outside of myself because there's something that's not quite right about the way I'm feeling and It was at the point where I remember sitting probably a day or two sitting in the shower with my wife And I'm like, you know, I Feel kind of bad, you know, I'm trying to understand myself, but I feel like I need to do this I'm not doing it for pleasure. I'm not doing it because I want to eat barbecue cookouts and McDonald's I'm doing it because I really want to be healthy. You know, I want to feel good again and so trying to negotiate with myself and even understand through the logical steps of you know The debates that I've listened to and just what I've what I've known to be true for the seven years Or so now once I came across your videos, it was helpful as much as much as it was painful, right? They say sometimes medicine is you know the pain that brings it alive Hearing and allowing myself and being open to hearing something that I didn't agree with was was definitely my best my best Advantage in this and being able to critique myself and not just stay inside my information bubble So not only just your videos, but there's a few other people as well And just reading through the comments something that stuck to me was when somebody said You know, there's essential fats There's essential amino acids, right essential essential proteins, but when it comes to carbs It's not necessarily like an essential carb, right? And so some ideas like that and just thinking like, you know Some of these, you know, it's resonating with me In in different ways But overall when it comes down to it It was the health that I'm that I'm seeking, you know And what was in the way of me trying to become healthier were the The ethical ideas that I had where I would put myself on the back burner Put my own put my own existence on the back burner to Save animals so to speak So you mentioned that the carbohydrate thing, which is a very logical thing that comes up a lot Was one of the reasons that that flick the switch in your head But did you ever come across things like You don't have access to these foods at all times of the year in certain climates Did you ever think about like modern versions of fruits and vegetables are much more calorically dense and it's unnatural I mean, did you ever consider the things like the vegans needing supplements in their diet? How did those compare to that carbohydrate thing? Did those come up as well? Right. So I thought of a okay Well, you actually made a really good video one day and it's funny because I had just seen that video the day before A video to one that you responded to the day before and I posted another guy's video Oh, man, you created a good the person created like a an outline of okay I'm eating this vegan item and these are the nutrients right and I'm like, oh, this is just what I need I need this so I can make sure that I'm getting these so it has the paper value right the idea of Warriors Right, right. And I mean that's the almost, you know, if chronometer says it's right, you know, of course And so when I saw your video on that and the idea of an anti-nutrient Did not I never heard of that. I didn't I heard of it in the aspect of seeds But not in the aspect of uh, I'm sorry to interrupt you, but I believe that was the video critiquing simnant nutrition Right where he was putting the stuff And I had just subscribed to him the day before I saw your video And they want that video for you guys in the description Yeah, and then I saw your video the next day and I'm like Well, it's you know, it's good to see the other side of it because I was at that point where And truthfully, I think once somebody's watching your videos Then at that point they have enough intellectual curiosity to go You know, I'm already thinking about it and I'm thinking about How can these foods benefit my life, you know, maybe plant-based Doesn't totally make sense for me to do for the rest of my life, right? So if someone's watching here, well, you're on the right path, right? You're at least open the door for yourself to to something that will be beneficial to you So that gave us an you know an excellent idea of why you've kind of Transition and is you know, it really was an accumulation of all of these things From the nutrients to the vitamins. It really took Hammering really hammering the point home for you to really make the switch You know, you saw a lot of things that might have just its face value should have been enough but You know, I think I think for people It's just so difficult even with the video I made today It's it's just so apparent how certain things are so ingrained in our cultural wisdom That you just can't and even with my parents and everyone has family members that are like that And it's just unfortunate that some people aren't as open-minded as you So let's kind of talk about I guess so now you've let's literally talk about the whole like It's only been a week. So I'm sure we could sum up everything like what was that first meal like what was that first day like So I actually posted a video about that. Um, but just before I guess transitioning into eating meat again I sat back and I thought about some things and now I mean there's tons of variables for why things happen But some of my biggest concerns was one my dental health because getting cavities from Really it's not it shouldn't be happening in the way that it happens, you know My wife has never had a cavity in her whole entire life. She grew up in sweden They ate your dental products her whole life She met me she went vegan and then she gets a cavity and so I go did you get cavities too or Oh, yeah, I have cavities. Yes. Mm-hmm I mean and that's not to say that especially with the bulimia that definitely gives you cavities from prior But I mean within my time of being vegan. Um, I I am sometimes It's a shame because some people think that veganism is a cure all That a plant-based diet is a cure all and that you can't become sick. You can't you can't have cavities It's fruits fruits different than you know process sugar, right? But it's not it for me. It has given me cavities for my wife It's given her cavities For my health now moving into like where I started consuming meat again. Um The first time that I did it and I'm sorry before you go into that I think one thing worth mentioning is You know guys fruits and vegetables never really led to the degeneration of our culture It was mostly grains and then the lack of fat soluble vitamins So it's not to say that you can't you know, it's not to say that fruits are going to give you cavities or vegetables Are going to make your teeth rot A more accurate statement would be not getting enough vitamin k2 or vitamin d3 from the sun or Vitamin a in the form of retinol those things are what's going to cause you to get cavities Not necessarily negative foods you're eating because there are plenty of indigenous groups that ate even grains The present thing in their diet was the fat soluble vitamins that had like a preventative effect on the cavity So as you were saying, uh, you were going into the meat diet. Yeah. Yeah, I think that's fair to say for sure um And so transitioning to meat, of course, I had like Just the roadblock of even trying to eat it to the point that um, I went to sweden a couple months ago And my wife made vegan swedish meatballs, right? And they were red on the inside because they're beet juice And I couldn't eat it And I know there's not meat. It's not meat product But it almost made me sad to think of even eating that right so transitioning from that depth of My mindset right now we're just a few months ago. Yeah, just just a few months ago Now transitioning to trying to eat raw meat I mean if that can try to show the The depth or that how Important it was for me to think okay. I need to eat something that's more healthier because something's lacking. Something's not right um Now trying raw meat to me made more sense than trying cooked me Again, I was fascinated that people could even eat raw meat because my whole life I've said things like Oh, man, uh, you wouldn't be enjoying meat if it wasn't for plants. So therefore humans are vegan, you know, you know, obvious, right? However, um, that's not true, you know, or you wouldn't be eating meat without cooking it. Well, of course, that's not true So, uh, it was very odd. I actually posted a video on it my first time ever eating meat Uh, and you can see my reaction in it and just kind of that gagging is but it wasn't too bad You know, I had gotten my mind used to this idea Um, which had to I'd like prep myself for it and guys, he's not even bacon and eggs This guy isn't not even a perfectly seared new york city steak. This guy's taken a bite out of raw meat You know, this is way drastic than most vegans do this And I and I think that was a part of my my my rationalization too because I'm not doing it for Uh, for pleasure. I'm doing it purely for health, right? So if someone's saying oh, you're just doing it for needless pleasure. No, I'm not I'm doing it because I want to be a Healthy person, right? So I think my first one was a sirloin and as you could imagine I sniffed it I did the look at it sniffed it. It's like And I take a couple bites and this is the part that's phenomenal to me What was it? I'm sorry, but what was it like buying that in the supermarket like? I felt kind of so actually prior to buying it I went to a a market and just looked at stuff one day and then walked away because I was like look at this stuff I I went and I've never gone to the meat market the meat side of the grocery store for years for years So I look now when I was going to purchase it. I asked her, um, which one of these can you eat raw? And she's like, uh, I guess these ones over here, you know, because it was the sirloin Um, so I bought the sirloin and I said, okay. Well, here we go. We're about to we're about to get down We're about to try it, you know, we're breaking it And so yeah, my wife was there And she just I cut her a piece so she could cook it because she's been vegan too And now the part that I that was surprising to me is the first time I tried it It did not taste the same as the next 15 minutes later There is a taste and once you can understand what the flavor is Then you can really grasp like this appreciation for it. Uh, and not only just in the Skeletal muscle, but when I tried raw heart as well Right and I'm sorry. What did you mean 15 minutes later? Yeah, just within tossing it around in my mouth It tastes it tastes completely different and then the next morning I woke up and I had a four breakfast, right? I didn't I had another piece of it pretty much a global I had left and at that point I liked it. I went I And it's funny because when I watched a video, I remember saying, you know, I don't think I can do this It doesn't I don't I don't quite like this the flavor, but at this point I Genuinely enjoy the flavor. Um, I've been spending the last week trying to describe What raw meat tastes like and why it tastes better than cooked meat Yeah, you know the raw the raw versus cooked thing the taste is interesting because If you perfectly sear a piece of meat over a wood fire and put some salt on it It tastes better than raw like I think that's But if you just sear like most people do in a pan, it really doesn't taste better than raw meat One one interesting thing was most indigenous groups They always prepared their meat over a fire Or they boiled it so Definitely way different cooking methods than we do now and I agree 100 percent, you know a pan sear Tastes worse than raw and most people pan sear their meat Yeah, it's a pretty unnatural thing. Uh, and that's what you remember. You're trying to pan sear it Yep. Yeah, we did that so I honestly think if we took Like if you took raw fish and then you took boiled fish like the Inuit ate it You probably like the boiled fish if you took If you took raw beef and then you put it over a perfect wood fire charcoal Salt and pepper. I'm sure you'd like it But it's it's interesting to note that you know traditional cooking methods taste good But the pans sear I really don't think it tastes better than raw myself either Right, right. And I mean the only raw that I've tried so far is be cows. Count me So, I mean, uh, I've tried salmon, but that's smoked Have you tried, uh, so you tried heart. Have you tried any other organ meat so far? I've tried liver. I've tried liver and I'm not quite I haven't quite understood that taste yet Um, I accidentally left some out too long on the calendar. So I just kind of exed it But it's almost like broccoli would be in a weird way. I know that's kind of hard to to compare but there's a somethingness to it that's Like reminds me of broccoli where I can accept it. I just need to give it the time Um and the potency I guess so Over the past week, you've pretty much been eating raw meat every day Is that been kind of like your sole source of nutrition for the most part? Yes, uh, actually I have like two hearts in the, um, fridge right now I just chop it up put them in mason jars, you know, take the best of both worlds vegans love mason jars And then I just I go to work and it's I just fill up a bucket of ice my lunch pail put my um, put my heart in there And eat it at work. And then I usually cut like a piece of sirloin or whatever other type of meat, too So that's interesting because most people when they transition to this diet You know a lot of times people say they need to eat more fat initially and I think that's very important for adapting to a ketogenic metabolism, but you seem to be You know not really having any sort of issues whatsoever if anything you'd say you felt better Yeah, actually I thought that was really funny because I've watched people's videos on keto before And they talk about their energy depletion or whatever before they get used to it And I don't I didn't have that experience I was surprised because I like doing cardio and boxing or not and my um exercise and suffer from it because I'm so used to doing High carb I've always been high carb. I'm like thousands of calories of carbs But just eating the protein and fat and I have not had much Not much fruit sugar whatsoever. Maybe an apple And I so I feel great and so I I'm surprised myself guys. This is the magic of raw meat raw meat literally has almost double the amount of B vitamins And 10 to 20 percent more of the other vitamins it digests much more efficiently Everybody can extract much more nutrition from it. I would assume if most people went on A raw meat diet initially when transitioning into keto zero carb, whatever It would be like this where we wouldn't have nearly as many problems I think transitioning to a cooked meat diet It's much much more difficult and then questions come up You know, although I sear my meat on the outside and I add salt to it Is you know, what's the difference between you know, the meats technically completely raw on the inside You know 90 plus of the meat is raw, but you know, are there physiological differences because you're tricking your body that it's cooked and salted You know that that's where it gets really interesting, but That's definitely you know, something to note about the Increased energy extraction and you know less water required to digest and just overall higher vitamin content of Of these raw foods and of course, you know, I think one thing that's really important to tie in that you mentioned in regards to the vegan thing is You know, there's no seasoning. You're not cooking it. It's not a pleasure. It's a very interesting Aspect whereas most people I'm sure they would have been diving into bacon already your cheese or who is that most people consider Much more enjoyable Right and and I think what I really appreciate about this too Is that it doesn't It doesn't stimulate me like the meat is so pure It's not a hyper stimulant where like fruit it gets you kind of amped up Or some things are too flavorful for me And I like how subtle it is and it's so real and I have to like I have to appreciate it because even when I finish eating I'm not in the slumps. It doesn't give me a drag down on the end I don't have a sugar high and then a and then a you know a depletion of my energy level. It's just It is very constant Yeah, I think a great analogy is You know, if you eat a steak You might not feel amped up in energy and you still feel comfortable enough to run You could like you feel like you could run a mile probably But when you eat fruit You feel like you got to get up and run through some dry wall like yeah You really pumped like you're ready to you know, you're ready to do it You know, that's that's the power of you know, the sugar really especially in gut bacteria And I think I mean on the top of the health too Where me has definitely put me at a point where I'm like, you know, I'm going to keep eating this right Is where I started seeing the reversal of some of the experiences I was having on a plant-based site Um, there's three primary ones that I can think of. I don't know if people are totally gonna relate to the first one that I'm Going to say but my saliva acidity. I don't know why But it was so intense that to the point where I would wake up and it's like my mouth was it was sour, you know And so I okay. I'm okay. I'm gonna do the coconut oil pulling thing try to just alkalinize my mouth Now I haven't had that same problem and I don't know why I can't tell you why I haven't changed my diet my um dental practices my dental hygiene practices But the the acidity of my saliva has it feels much less harsh harsh on my teeth Um than than before and I can't I can't tell you why but um I have a feeling that it's It correlates with my point of changing my diet Yeah, I'm looking at this study right now oral implications of the vegan diet observational study The study revealed greater incidents of demineralization and white spots in the vegan subjects compared to the omnivorous ones Localized at the neck of the teeth and on the vestibular surfaces of dental elements The saliva pH more acid in omnivorous patients range between four and six So the pH was definitely lower in the vegan. That's something really interesting that I don't know how I've never heard of that before and apparently it's popular enough that they did a ton of studies on it I'm glad you even brought that up because I I didn't even know that I can I it's interesting what one quick google search will do on ncbi. I'll link those for the end of the description too Uh, what was the so that was your main reason? What were the the other two? so um My other one really I think the most important one Well, the one that's really common is gassiness It was at a point with plant base that I had gone to the grocery store and I released some gas out of me that This lady was walking to my direction and I'm thinking like oh my gosh, please don't walk over here Okay, how do I escape this I need an escape plan right now because it was like some stuff and I mean, I'm talking like anyways It was bad. Um The funny thing about yeah, that's that's hilarious the funny thing is always brought up in almost every vegan person And some they just say to embrace it, you know Yeah, well, what's funny is that There's jokes about it. It's so common in the culture where people are like, oh, yeah vegan farts I mean, you could it's just there's like memes on it and it's it's funny, right? I mean, it was but it's a sign of something It's healthy right but really That's what people say, but it's a sign that hey something's not you're not supposed to be doing this You know, I had I remember when I was doing bananas and oats. I would just blend up bananas and oats and water and Drink that down the amount of gas that I would get every single day It was at a point where I started getting frustrated by it But I don't put two and two together like Hey, well, you know, there's something's not digesting. That's one of the points when I was just Pooping out purely that and I was you know, it's eating so clean now the third one for me that is the most I guess endearing for me because it's my brain, you know and Sometimes I feel like and it's not that I'm stupid or anything like that or but my focus Over time has really degenerated in a way and it really upsets me because even trying to strain together Sentence full of words. I've noticed this decline in myself with that and Just in my daily life I tried to almost make it something more sophisticated, but I think what it is is brain fog Just that's the only word that I can think that really encapsulates what I was experiencing But I got used to it and I started normalizing it's almost like I adapted to my misery and No way it could have been my my diet, right? No way because this is a healthy healthy healthy diet This is diet. Everyone should be eating, you know plant-based. Um Now in my last just in this week alone From eating meat and heart particularly because I'm a big fan of heart right now For the first time and it gives me like the chills even thinking about it that I finally had a day where I'm not feeling that odd Fogginess that that quite like okay. I'm kind of listening to you, but I'm not totally listening to you I'm kind of seeing behind you in a way, you know, and so When I think about myself and I think about my family. I think about my wife we just had newborn kids and Two months ago three months ago if you asked me would you ever eat meat again? I would have told you straight in the eyes Nope, I won't I would have I was I wanted to raise my kids vegan And I didn't understand how crazy of an idea that was And did you watch my video today? I did actually I did and um I think it could even go a step further because when I'm talking that don't know what I'm talking about I made a video titled vegans kill babies. So When you think about um The fact that my wife lost a period I mean if that we kept doing plant the whole raw thing We wouldn't even have the kids that we have today because really it's almost like um I thought about this it's your her body was starving so much right whether even though we didn't quite realize it That it's not even going to try to reproduce Her body already knows that hey if I try to create these Offspring it's not going to be successful. So it's almost like a birth control You know it's in terms of not having babies in order the idea of killing babies um, so For any man who's trying to raise a family Obviously, we're all in a position to try to find okay. What am I going to supply my family with well? I I feel a lot more confident now where I can say okay. I'm getting my own chickens I know that much and when I do eat meat I strictly only eat the meat from the butcher that they have the grass-fed label on it because I still understand the vegan Ideologies of things and it's something that I still you know to a degree where Obviously, it's it's it's simple. Why would you have to add Additional pain to a creature if you don't need to right so in the uh before we go into the the grass fed meat thing You know that brain fog thing that's unfortunate man. Some people go their whole lives like that They really do And the b vitamins especially are very important for neurological function And you bringing up the example of you know, your wife Not losing her period losing her period That's a perfect example of the woman's body saying there's not enough calories in nature to sustain a child But the only way we would have ever gotten those calories in the first place in nature in that amount is from animal foods I mean, you know, there are plenty of examples Just watch my live stream yesterday guys in indigenous groups procuring certain high nutrient foods for nursing women Uh, so yeah, I just wanted to tie back on those points before we went further But you were saying uh, you know, yeah grass-fed beef because of the human of the animal Right and so I mean even in the context of being vegan, right? I still have the understanding of trying to minimize the amount of harm that I commit to a creature now In my Context, I'm not doing it for pleasure. I'm not doing it because um, you know, I just want to go out to Burger King I'm doing it because it's something that I need to do in order to satiate myself And at a point I feel like an obligate and I won't say maybe carnivore I don't know if that's going to come off in a certain way to somebody but uh An obligate consumer of animal products in some way, right? Because Out of my entire family history, there has never been a point where someone went, you know We're gonna negate all animal products And for me to try to be the first one to do this and I'm feeling a detriment from it It pins me into corner And I have and I have to make a decision And I think there's a lot of other people who are in my same position And they're at this point where they have to make a decision or else They might be at their own demise This ties in a lot to what you sent me in the email earlier Vegans cause unnecessary harm that they won't justify for an animal. How can we justify behavior for animals? Did you want to explain that to them? So, um Without getting too in-depth into it because the ethical side of veganism is a very long topic But how would a vegan right go from That point of veganism to this point of eating raw meat, you know, and how do you how how do I understand that within myself? um Now what it really came down to me was a necessity And people can say that, uh, you know the world the world health organization said that A vegan diet is suitable for all stages of life including infancy to elderly, right? Well, what exactly do they mean? I wish I wish they had actually told us what a suitable diet vegan diet was I wish they just spilled it out because for me it put me in a position where I go Okay, well the science studies are saying one thing But when I look around I'm seeing something else when I look at myself. I'm seeing something else So how do I rationalize this idea of ethics? versus Me surviving right when I look around I go, okay. Well the science studies say one thing Okay, let me look at the top tier vegans right that the people who are advocating this the most Let me look at how they look over long term Right and I look at them and I go I don't want to look like that I don't believe that that is the level of health that I want to have and it's not to try to take shots at them But it's for me and my family and my own personal well-being. I go I If I could eat a plant-based diet without having anything to do with animals more than obviously I would do that It's it would be a simple decision, but I can't I don't believe that a plant-based diet Is something that is helpful for me for the rest of my life You know one interesting thing that I was just thinking of was I mean, of course This wasn't it but like the vegans and how they look It's scarily true how there are literally no the long-term vegans that look good for their age Maybe they look good because they work out or they're in shape But facially and skin wise there's no denying their age Right The thing about you know vegans getting optimal calories from nutrition. I remember Chris crest are saying there's like five valve vegans where they only eat, you know, the oysters and the shellfish because They're not sentient, but people don't realize that They literally uh, I believe in the fat of the land by all the armors stephenson and by an arctic explorer And one part of that book he was the reason he initially went out to the arctic And looked at Inuit diets and stuff was because he was looking at their skulls And the skulls were so perfectly physically developed In these eskimos and these Inuit people who were eating predominantly animal products But what was interesting was those skulls were almost identical To florida coastal indians that were eating just shellfish So it's safe to say that those non-sentient shellfish are just as nutrient dense as you Slice and open little bullpeep or what is it? Um, I'm I'm so bad. Oh, that's a lamb. I think Yeah, well lamb whatever same thing. Who cares? All right. You guys get the idea. Yeah. Yeah What are the three little pigs? You know slice open number one number two number three It's it's that the oysters are just as good You go to vandalsos on arthur avenue. You go down to mott street get some baked clams Delicious. All right. I'll I'll stop messing around And I think what you're getting at with that too is like How can you find an ethical way to consume meat? Right? I think there's a lot of vegans who Think that the idea of veganism is anti me and really veganism is not anti me In fact, I think a lot of meat eaters think that veganism is anti me But really veganism is anti unnecessary harm Which to produce me so let's say in a scenario, right? There's roadkill. Well vegans could eat roadkill because Right, right. Not that that's gonna happen, but I'm just saying in the the idea of the ethics of okay Is it the meat eating meat? That's wrong. Is that or is it the harm that's caused the animals, you know, or what which Then leads me into Just because something's not vegan does not mean that it's unethical You know, so if I have my own chickens and I know there's vegan arguments I know the counterpoints of these But if I have my own chickens and I go, okay, you know, I'm gonna have them lay some eggs And the ones that they don't bother with I'm gonna eat those eggs. I As an observer, I see no Evidence whatsoever of harm, right? Now if I eat the egg, is that being unethical? Okay, well, maybe somebody will say yes because it's not vegan And so I and this is the part where I never understood when people said veganism is a cult Um And it would trigger me because I'm like, that's not it's not a cult if anything Eat an animals is a cult, you know how you're the one doing that But what people are getting at is that people will get that vegans will get so tied up in this label of I need to be vegan Even if it's to my own detriment Even if I don't totally agree with that honey, do you really disagree with honey? Well, it's not vegan. So I need to be on script. I need to be logically consistent to the point of my own demise And that's where I finally it clicked to me because okay, that's what they mean by cult. I'm trying to be Logically consistent to the point of my own demise Um, but but doesn't that get tricky when you say well, if you could eat Roadkill on the side of the road because it was killed accidentally. Is that the idea? But what about ethically killed grass-fed beer for what about Oysters who don't have you know nervous systems like this gets very foggy, doesn't it? Yeah, and I mean when it comes to like the the vegan if you ever get in a vegan debate with somebody They won't go to that point not because they don't necessarily They may not know the answer or not But because they'll try to handle the most obvious cases first, which it usually stops there anyways Um Now everyone eats grain fed beef factory farm stuff. That's what it is really Right um, but to answer your question in terms of like, okay eating um buy valves, right Well, I think some people are airing on the side of caution Because it has some sort of a nervous system ganglia in it or something like that. Oh, yeah, sure Right, and so they they say well, you know, if if anything air on the side of caution Because like they respond to stimulus, but we don't know if it's just a biological response to harm Or if they're actually being harmed, right? Yeah, I mean because there is a difference between intelligence and sentience You know But you know on the topic of the chickens you said earlier You know to have healthy chickens, you know, a lot of farmers have they have they breed maggots They breed Various bugs and worms and I remember the other worm they breed but sometimes like I I would go down to the new Fulton fish market in the Bronx And uh get some like fish chum fish meal to feed to the chickens and they go crazy for that You know the chickens the ducks they love the bugs. They love the fish. So You know, I I guess that ties in with also I guess a pet dog, you know, if you have to feed your pets Yeah, if you have to feed your pets meat and you have to feed your chickens meat to get eggs Uh, you know, how does that tie in because you're essentially just buying meat Right, right, right. And so in that case a vegan who owns a cat for instance It's very difficult to have a vegan cat Then you wouldn't be vegan anymore You just it's this way it's going to go. So I mean like for a while and not necessarily for any Well, there was a specific purpose when I gave my dog the dog, right and it's a vegan dog food and that's I For his specific purpose because he had some allergies and that's what I I resulted to but For a lot of people they would say, um, well, if you have a dog and you feed your dog meat You're not vegan anymore. So it's like this paradigm of where okay Well, you need to be consistent in every single aspect of your life or what you're not in the vegan club anymore You know, and you when it comes to the internet, you know, how people are in common sections If you don't go with what they're saying you get pitched fork And people are different on the internet than they are in real life. And that's just the reality If you meet vegans in real life, I'm a lot shorter I'm five three. So if I look tall right now, don't you know, I'll be impressed And that's because my parents are short. Uh, so if you if you meet vegans in real life You probably there's every day of normal people. Uh, everything we see on the internet Gives off this. There's an idea of the preachy vegan and stuff But really in real life people are just chill people and you eat what you eat that you would they eat They will they'll disagree with it, but whatever, you know Yeah, I mean, I think we uh, we touched on a lot of things man. We touched on The uh, you know, we briefly summed up, you know, we're both sentient and we should be respectful for each other But, you know, there's a point where you're harming yourself and you're malnourishing yourself and That's where it gets really foggy and it's just I mean, I don't really want to go more into the ethical stuff because of this video, but Uh, I mean and you've been carnivore for I mean just a week and you've already seen dressing in your brain fog You know, we can easily explain the Uh, what was it the the fogginess the the saliva differences as well as the cavities? I mean You know what's in price's book on the you know, that's what he focused on You know, he was a dentist. He literally focused on dental cavities but Uh, you know to just you know, we talked about you know, I think a variety of different things, you know to kind of just almost like You know start opening the can a little bit and let you guys finish opening it to kind of go to your own research and Just explore the various topics Yeah, I think one thing I want to finish off with really quick is that You know, I went and I got my blood test done Just before eating meat and I got like a whole print out everything testosterone, etc and if you're vegan Go get your blood tested because I look very healthy. I've never been sick a day in my life. I'm I have a very lean body I'm athletic But when I looked at my tests, I have some things that are not within the right in the proper range And if not with all this entire conversation of just me asking myself I would have went to a point where I could have injured myself and now if anything If you're going to eat a plant-based diet make sure you are watching your nutrients And be truthful to yourself if you get to a point where you start Feeling that you are degrading Come up with a solution and don't just blindly say well, you know I'm doing it for the animals because really you need to be there for your family You need to be there for your kids. And so One misnomer I believe is that vegans will say well, I can just get it from a processed supplemented, you know supplemented food I've been eating Cashew milk almond milk, etc. All of those things say b12 hemp milk But my b12 is low, right? My d3 my d I am a bus driver. I'm in the At least in the daylight all day, right? And so I'm at least my hands are exposed, right because we have t-shirts on my face is exposed my arms are exposed As being a sunshine vitamin, we're an average person and I'm in the sun more than most people be You will not it is for me. I did not get an adequate amount of d just from being in the sun now Grana I live in Seattle. So that's a factor, you know, but um At least just being out in the daylight Uh, it's something that people should pay attention to so don't hurt yourself Yeah, let's let's touch on this so You know a lot of vegans will say that oh, well the general population is usually deficient in these vitamins, too and we would agree but The thing is these people are just following standard american diets and then they have some little deficiency You guys are following vegan diets and literally supplementing and trying to get these vitamins And you have more severe deficiencies than they do So not only are they not even trying to get it, you know, it's it's like the ultimate hypocritical thing to say Yeah, and on the note of b12 obviously Animal form versus plant form it just doesn't digest in the body. It's as simple as that And for things like iron, uh, vitamin d3 All of these things It's not just it's like calcium. You don't just eat calcium and it goes into your bones You need vitamin d3 your body signals. I believe the hormones called calcidial to absorb calcium in the kidneys And then that remineralizes the bones. It's the same thing with vitamin d3 You need cholesterol in the diet You need vitamin a to heal the skin after the vitamin d3 is absorbed It's not just in this ties back to the paper value thing, man You can't just take a d3 supplement and expect your vitamin d levels to go up I've spoken with past vegans and past standard american dieters That took vitamin d3 for months and their levels didn't go up because they just didn't have the other fat soluble vitamins So I think vitamin synergy is definitely something to note here and hey, maybe if you took Maybe by some weird crazy hypothetical scenario if we change your diet to like all coconut and all avocados and A ton of vitamin d3 supplements and vitamin k2 supplements, you know, you would have been a walking laboratory But maybe we would have seen some interesting results, but that's that's modern science. That's laboratory stuff and Even if it was possible to get You know, there's always vitamins that are impossible to get out of vegan diet b12 vitamin a and retinolic acid Everything else it's questionable whether we can get it omega-3s with high amounts of algae supplements. They're definitely toxic, but You know, regardless of of how much we look into those supplements and various forms, there's always things we cannot get Regardless of how advanced science is Yeah, and I think from the vegan mindset We hear a lot of the same sentences a lot and what has been normalized is supplements Right and supplements are supposed to supplement something you're lacking You know, and I I fell for it too. I go well, you know, it's okay to take supplements because The meat eaters have to take supplements too, but it's like well, you know There's a lot of context in that sentence because why do they have to take supplements? Is it because their diet is inherently lacking in this nutrient? No, that's a whole totally different, you know, a whole totally different problem Well, you can just take a pill and solve the issue, you know, oh, I was watching um, uh video earlier and he said That's not a big deal and these dudes just take a spray every day and it's like, well, no, there's something we shouldn't normalize that We should look at that and say um Medicine it is medicine, right? It's like I'm taking a supplement for a reason why Is it because it's just normal and I go, uh, how about I can just fix it pop the pill I ignore the fact that my diet doesn't have a people think babies getting bone cancer is normal, you know, it's You know at what point Uh, I think what was I going to say in regards to the supplements? You were saying it's you're normalizing supplements Normalizing and I think at in some degree Now if you need it, you need it, right? But don't set yourself up to need it Don't purposefully seek out the one that goes. Well, this type doesn't have any D in it Or uh, I might have a hard time getting iodine I don't you know, and there's a point where people will say the script But in their personal life, they won't really practice it. They'll go. Well, you can get natto iodine easily, you know And ask them. Well, when's the last time you had natto? Uh, never, you know, I know never it tastes gross Usually right usually people ask vegans. Where do you get your protein from? But there's a lot of other nutrients that they can say Where do you get your x from and if that person does not know like that? It's a problem and I'm not saying that to pick on vegans. I'm not saying that to beat you up I'm saying that you have to pay attention to what your nutrient count is because it You can't just really nearly go. I'm going to eat 10 20 bananas a day Um and call it good because you're not going to make it and if you are truthfully Wanting to be there in order to support the animals You have to take care of yourself or what's you're going to fall apart and I guarantee You're going to say this isn't working for me anymore So if you want it to work for as long as it can work for you You have to pay attention and for me at this point I've come to a conclusion that the way to have a true truthfully nourishing diet Is taking part again with animal organs and etc etc and not for taste value, but purely for the health aspect of it Were you ever on bodybuilding.com? You know the saying Lift heavy and take a multi. Oh you ever heard that it's it's like a big joke bro science Just lift heavy and take a multi bro Yeah, it's so it's so silly. That's what that was reminding me of but I think I mentioned this in that video I made earlier vegans kill babies is You know vegans speak a lot about a diet being nutrient dense. They always speak about getting protein They always speak about these things But when you ask them to step up to the plate, they don't even swing, you know They they can't explain where they're getting I remember When I was doing the critique video on simlet nutrition the reason one that I'm going to link you guys in the description I remember he was on chronometer and he was saying oh my vitamin k is so high and he literally had to highlight over Vitamin k because he didn't know where he was getting it from Right, only did he not know what I was getting certain vitamins from you know Even especially the zinc and the calcium which are in the form of oxalates, which can't be absorbed by the body It's just crazy about How ingrained The conventional wisdom that fruits and veggies are good for you and that they're nutritious and that they equal health When we actually analyze things and start to question things and not take things for granted and ask people to explain things. That's where You know long story short if you question things to the point of open-mindedness and objectiveness You end up on a carnivore diet. That's really what happens if not a carnivore diet Some variation of high nutrient-dense animal foods died with heirloom grains indigenous foods Yeah, and I think the thing too is that We listen to the studies and we go well that science said that so that's the way it's gonna be right And so we hear one study that says one thing and then we hear another study that says the entire You know the entire opposite But then when we think about okay Meat causes cancer. Okay. Well, what about meat causes cancer? Who are these people that who were what type of meat were these people eating and I can't sit here and act like I'm an adult whatsoever But I'm under the impression That the people who they are studying are eating a burnt up meat. They're eating overly cooked meat They're eating processed meat and they're eating toxic meat versus just eating uh, oh, I'm sorry interrupt But not to go too specifically into that. Did you you saw my video on that or? um No, I don't I'd have to think of the title for that one. So it's I believe it's titled Does meat cause cancer and then in parentheses? It's like Uh heterocyclic amines heme iron nitrosamine. So You know, I could explain each of those things briefly because you brought them up The burned meat the heterocyclic amines theory Is that they took that form that carcinogen that forms on the meats burned and they injected it into rats at like 10,000 times the normal amount. So that's out the window for the heme iron thing it's in the context of The studies done to show heme iron Were actually done on Like there was one study that vegan gains living where they took iron sulfite and they spun it in a centrifuge, which was completely ridiculous Uh, that that was completely out the window. I have a whole video explaining that Yeah On the joe rogan podcast with joel kahn and chris crescer the other day Uh at the beginning chris crescer said, you know, the relative risk of epidemiological nutritional studies is so low That there really aren't studies that show anything yet because in comparison to things like cigarettes and cancer You know, the rates are not even close where those are 30 to 40 times. We're not even looking at one times But so the heme iron my theory on the heme iron was that Heme iron consumed in the context of an inflammatory diet in processed meats Can actually be damaging because the body can't absorb the iron you need the other vitamins to absorb the iron and Nitroso compounds and nitrosamines and nitrate foods If you dry heat them, which is it's like a huge Drum cylinder and I'll link the video for you guys It's this huge drum cylinder and the nitrates in the meat react with this type of heating method And they form carcinogens and nitroso compounds. So The nitrosamines it gets really complicated like nitrates turn into Nitrosamines and nitroso compounds. I talk about specifics in that video, but This dry heating method actually does make the meat carcinogenic But I think if you just took that meat and cooked it at home, that's different Yeah, you know, I wish you I've been following vegan gains for years. I've watched his videos I was vegan before I even saw his videos, right? And he has a certain pattern and I'm not talking bad about him But I'm surprised he didn't make a response to your response video and almost made me wonder Why not? Because you talked about something very particular and I don't remember what it was called exactly, but I think it was a risk factor Um, yeah relative risk relative risk and I wish he would have come back with a response on that So the problem with that podcast and that debate with him was I hadn't slept for four nights The topics we agreed to discuss I had some studies for them, but then he just pretty much kind of He chose a topic that was loosely related to it that I wasn't really prepared to discuss And the problem is I was kind of nervous during the podcast and I didn't take the time to research it But the week before I watched the video by dr. Darren schmitt Uh big shout out to him on and hit the his video is titled how to tell junk science And he goes over reasons in this video like four reasons. I believe that the science is bad It could be the method of data collection It could be Uh, you know if it's what what else was it? If if the dosage was wrong But that's hard to tell you like you don't know if the dosage is wrong unless you have experience in the field It could be that there's a low relative risk, which means If the relative risk is below one Lower well a hundred percent if it's between one and two That means that it does not account for causative factors such as like other like confounding factors, you know like lifestyle Genetic genetic past past dietary history exercise It doesn't account for those things, you know healthy user bias those things are not accounted for in a relative risk below two You know, we kind of have to see a relative risk between three and four But the studies that he was linking me literally had relative risks Like of 1.1 1.2 And he's saying oh, there's a 20 percent increase, but no that's that's not what it means it means that's It there's like a filter the let me I believe it's called the Bradford standards. I'm not sure The Bradford region to no determine actual concentration of protein, uh, but I'm sorry. I'm drawing a blank on this one, but there's a uh, kris krescher mentions it in the drill con podcast There's standards for epidemiological research that that need to be done Uh in order for you to Acknowledge The information so You know what what we do at face value in the study Needs to be interpreted In a different way And I think the thing is with some of these two is that like me I'm an audience member, right? I see the study and I draw my conclusion based off of what the person has Regurgitated it to me, right because I'm like, oh, I'm just audience. I'm just absorbing this information Um More people don't get on and actually understand what is being what is happening in the study and we Really are basing our lives off of what we absorb from youtube because we're trying to understand the world And we're all trying to find like a better route to living ultimately. Um, so whether someone's eating Carnivore diet or or vegan diet a lot of the same interests Uh Align, there's a lot of parallels. Um now trying to find the specific path can be difficult And when we have those studies where for instance, and this is nothing against vegan gains But he posted a study well that convinces and I go Well Then I don't need to eat Me because this is a study said that you know, I'm gonna get die from cancer and get a heart attack And I'm safer to do this way. Um Which then once a person can go I once a person believes that he or she can eat a whole food plant-based diet for the rest of the life healthfully Then that's when a lot of people make the transition to Ethics most people who get into veganism don't necessarily go into it because of the ethics They go into because he's looking for better health then once they check that block Then they move on to well if I can live like this without harming animals, then Then why not, you know, which is it's logical? I mean, that's a logical conclusion to make but Then when you get to the point of you're making the assumption that yes, this is something I can do for the rest of my life and for me I have to stop there Because I can't get to the next point if I can't even healthfully do something, you know for a lot for the rest of my life Well, and you feel like you're being misled initially from people that interpreted studies and you just took what they said Right, uh, but to to go over that I did find it's it's called the Bradford hill criteria and I'm just going to read the abstract of this study. It's it's how data integration has changed causal inference and molecular epidemiology In 1965 Sir Austin Bradford hill published nine viewpoints to help determine if observed epidemiological associations are causal And I'll link this study for you guys. I don't want to go too much into this, but You know, there's various reasons Uh, it doesn't say I'm not sure if it says relative risk here But you know, there's just various reasons in the Bradford hill criteria that You know, it pretty much just requires an epidemiological study to Be above a relative risk of like two or three, which we just don't see in these studies. So You know, I don't want to get too much into that stuff. That's really You know, very far from what most people I think are interested in I think the main point to touch on there is You know, always take everything with a grain of salt never take anything at face value Except for what I You know, in all truth, you know, I always tell people to To take what I say with a grain of salt, but I feel like I filter information in a very honest and objective way Uh, I try to I take pride in my, uh, how genuine I am and How I try not to push an agenda So to speak Right, that's just something I've always tried to focus on And I feel like just me as someone who is transitioning I try to keep as honest and as pure because I don't want to mislead someone and I You can be an influence just by existing You know, and I don't want to influence somebody to go down the wrong wrong road by Miss speaking or trying to hide the truth. And so like even my my blood test I want to post it so people can just say, yeah, this is where your blood tests were, you know The whole thing except except for my address. So at the end of the day It's something that I am it's a transition that I'm happy. I've made I still keep in mind a lot of the the vegan values that I had in in a sense of I'm not doing this because I want to hurt animals. I'm not doing this because I'm a A person who likes to see animals get killed or I don't get off on that type of thing and the reality is Unless it takes a very particular sick person to want to harm animals, you know, just for the sake of harming animals But there's a whole total different context when you need to Be alive and even when people will ask, well, would you ever kill the cow yourself? Well, not if I don't have to but Right, but if I was in a position where I really had to even if it was a dog, right? I mean when you're hungry and you're starving, you know starving creature, you'll go to whatever lengths Um, or even if you're starving because you're malnourished creature, you know Even in the modern context, you'll you'll go to lengths that become more practical because you go Well, I need to be alive and I need to live healthy and I need my family to live healthy so I guess just to to wrap up what I My my ideas is that I don't want to come off to vegans as Me trying to beat you up or anything like that because I think a few of you may be in the position that I was in and Not like this is um A counseling session, but there's other people out there who feel the same way you feel where you Aren't totally on board. You don't you know, you want to feel better. You might be having an experience And if you choose to seek out animal products to make yourself feel better It's not something that you need to feel bad about and the idea that you're trying to be a cruel or harsh person To animals because you're not and at the end of the day you have to take care of your own body and your own house That's very well said and I think anyone who's going to be negative or cruel Or I think cruel is a very good word to describe The persona of someone who would say anything negatively or try to put words in your mouth that you know No one likes killing animals. No one You know, there are some very sadistic and psychopathic people and sociopathic people out there that do enjoy doing those things But the way vegans try to frame it like everyone does it like that or everyone does it for mouth pleasure things like that It's just a very cruel and negative mindset that if someone's in that mindset you shouldn't even associate yourself with them let alone worry about what they have to say, but What you said also just as a message to vegans in general to be very open-minded and to consider your health first Yeah, um because like I said earlier if Even within if you if your if your health is going to lack if you're going to fail on your health aspect It's going to be very hard to um continue the the argument for morality as a Individual who's who's supporting it right because you're not going to feel good Um, if you can you know do what you're doing if you're living on a vegan diet and you're happy and healthy right now Um, just be careful be pay attention and don't ignore the signs and try not to get wrapped up in what people call the dogma or just the the mental trap of Being able to escape it because it is really hard and it's actually kind of saddening For the first time going or just even trying to think through it again and but you're not the only one who's out there and There's other people who know how you feel and it is challenging But at the other end when you have your own health again, it's it's good So why do you think in particular? You were able to kind of Escape veganism so to speak. What what about your character? Do you think? Was it that uh I think because i'm not afraid to be wrong all the time And it is uncomfortable to be wrong. It's uncomfortable to be wrong and it sucks but this Shouldn't be about being a right versus wrong thing. It should be about finding a truth You know and maybe a truth is true at one point in time where hey, yeah, this vegan diet's helping me right now but at some point Maybe too much good at some point that you know, you could have too much water for instance They you know at There could be a context where this plant-based diet is good for this specific reason. You can't have too many Norwegian girls My wife's from Sweden. So I'm close. I'm close. That's what I meant. That's what I meant So, I mean, yeah um So, yeah Being able to challenge myself whoops being able to challenge myself and ask myself the question be open to it Because really that feeling of being triggered that pissed off that annoyed that dude that dude just ate raw meat at a um At a veg press how how dare he do something like that? And then they go well, you know People call the cops on him, you know, and I and you think like well vegans protest stuff all the time so You know, but within the vegan mind There's something else going on and not that the crazy that is a contradiction Yeah, and and not not that they're crazy, but it's just that their fundamentals are so ingrained within Saving the animals that they again Will follow the logic the logical consistent to the part of their own demise and that's where I don't want to go I'm not the type when I observe myself I know the science studies say one thing Right, and then the vegan leaders say another thing But when I step back and I take an observation of those individuals, I take an observation of myself and my experiences I'm not going to stop. I'm not going to sit here and wait to become another statistic in a sense of We're really the majority of um vegans end up because how many like how many multiple generations of vegans are there? Well, I don't know. Maybe this will be the first and if you want to put if this person If you want to put your kids and have them be the first multiple generation vegans I'm just saying there's a risk to that Um, and just be careful. I'm not going to tell you how to raise your kids. It's just You know, pay attention to that is a very touchy subject for a lot of people And I was even nervous talking about the facial development of a child in the in the last video I didn't want it because I've heard people I've had people lash back at me and say, oh, they're perfectly normal They're perfectly healthy, but this kind of ties back to your blood work where You know Let's say hypothetically what happens, you know, you had low b12. You had low b3 You know, you felt like shit. You had brain fog. Let's say you get some new blood work in a couple months Uh, everything's amazing. All the numbers are great. Your d3 is up. Your b12 is up You feel amazing like you've never felt in your life. You look better And then you then people say, oh no his cholesterol went up. Oh, no he's gonna die You know, it's it conventional wisdom will always rear its head and knowledge and understanding And and those things will always overcome conventional wisdom. It's just very difficult to do it with and You know culture modern culture what people believe what's ingrained in people's thoughts since they were young Is so difficult to overcome in general That the power of convention is an understatement And to understand how powerful it is is very difficult for most people to do even I struggle it with various aspects of my life, you know, maybe you still struggle with it in various aspects of diet As does everyone it's just so so difficult You know from the as you know, the eskimos Smoked tobacco since they were kids They always they never they always smoke tobacco. They refuse to Go on arctic expeditions without tobacco, you know, it's some things are so ingrained in culture that you just That's just how it is unfortunately and I think sometimes sickness is normalized in culture as well In that same way to where it's just normal It's just like and so like I mean we could talk about how You know people think wearing glasses is normal people think wearing braces is normal Getting cancer is normal 30% at what is it what crazy percentage of people get cancer now People think these things are normal But if we look just back 50 75 years ago people were popping out what 10 15 kids Right like it was nobody's business, you know people had didn't braces glasses, it's just so obvious, but Uh, you know, we're we're an hour and 20 now and I think we've touched on so many excellent topics Uh, I think we've been really fluent and everything's been really interesting so far Yeah, did you want to touch on anything else? Uh, I think the last thing I would say is that just on what you're saying right there Although you disagree with or someone could have disagreed with the other side, you know So as an opposition I should find value in the other person's position because really at the end of the day we're all looking for Health, you know, just like what you're describing right now where at some point We could do these things before we didn't have certain cancer rates, right? And as a people as you know, human beings we're suffering at this point Um, and there's experiences that we're undergoing that We're not so prevalent before um, and so even if someone eats Primarily meat and you don't like that Well, that person is doing something that could open up and Something that you never knew was even possibly for if someone's eating all plants, right? And they find a way to do that. Well, that's an education lesson for me. I can go Okay, so, you know How exactly we can actually do more working together than working against one another Uh, and the problem is is that people become very one side or the other rather than well Look what we all have in common. We know that processed food is junk for the most part, you know Doritos is a no-go. It's not real food. You know, we're trying to find things that are going to sustain ourselves and our family Um, and so yeah, that's pretty much what I I want to I guess the last thing I would say Um, and yeah, did you see the podcast with uh, joe rogan criss-cross or joel kahn? I haven't watched that one. But what I think is funny is that both vegans and carnivores like Carnivores are unhappy with the outcome of that and both go, you know You could have done they could have done this better. I don't want to go into that too much, but I mean the reason I brought that up was because at the end Both chris crescer and him agreed A vegan diet and whole foods diet is better than the standard american diet if supplemented properly, but All right, that although I will agree a vegan diet with perfect supplementation Probably is better than standard american diet. No one does perfect supplementation on a vegan diet You literally be eating avocados and coconut all day for your fats And then you'd be supplementing k2 various things that people don't supplement you'd be eating natto every day but I don't want to say, you know, I mean, I think Depending on your degree of intelligence if you watch that video You could tell whether it was stage or not. I'm gonna I'm gonna gonna touch on that note But uh, you know, if you if you know chris crescer and you know what he does and you know chris crescers intelligence level Uh, it's very apparent that he kind of held back a little bit on this I don't really want to talk And I think vegan side is saying the same thing um For each representative, um, but I think that last thing I'd also say is that As I described earlier is that really if anyone looked at me, they would not have ever known that I'm deficient in something And so I was just going to show an example of one of my tests I don't know how well this will show, but that's my d that they had I'll read it for them Yeah, so I had um, can you actually just put that in uh, so that says your vitamin d is 10 nanograms per milliliter. Holy shit Yeah, and that's uh, and the lowest is 30 Guys guys, let me let me talk about that. So That's the lowest vitamin d3 level I've ever seen in my goddamn life. Maybe someone has lower, but It's scaled on 30 to 100. Yeah 30 to 40 is like you haven't been in the sun in your life 80 is like 80 is like 10 hours of sun a day So that range is very stupid because you could be in the range And you could be a sun god or you could be a hermit, you know, that's why it's so misleading But for his vitamin d to be 10 Is absolutely absurd and then there's my d12 I'm not as familiar with those numbers, but okay Well, you could add let me see. So vitamin b12. I'm at um 210 And the lowest is 247 So if you can look at that, I don't know how well that's showing up Um, and it's really hard to comprehend because there's so many, you know equations on there But if I didn't look at that your cholesterol is like borderline low too, you know Oh, did you see that? Yeah. Oh, is that low? Okay. Yeah, and then I mean I have my testosterone on this one As well with the d3. I don't know if you looked at that one. I don't know really if that's low or high That's like above above the low end So that's that's something that a lot of doctors wouldn't be too concerned about but I mean you honestly if you went to Enough hrt doctors, they'd probably try to get you up But no those yeah, I mean it's definitely severe nutritional deficiencies in almost everyone let alone just vegans vegans It just gets much more severe and if anyone asked me, oh, how do you feel I just said Well, what's funny is because I was commenting before and I was saying I have I've had no health issues on vegan diet I've been saying that and little did I know my You know numbers are what they are so um It's unfortunate, but hey at least I caught it now and I didn't go another You know seven years And think or put the kids and you know Put the kids through it and then end up getting injured Because I would have made that you're fortunate in a sense that you've had Relatively few complications from a vegan diet, you know, I think farting low pH saliva and the brain fog is Definitely the least amount of complications you could get overall I mean there are people they call them cronies, you know, a lot of people like ovegan get Crohn's disease I think acne plays a big role too in various vegan problems. I think Fatigue in general low energy levels. I think you are A very unique example of a vegan diet I really think you are that you were able to subsist on it for so long And have you know, pretty severe. I mean, you know, some of your health problems back then, you know cavities were Obsesses, you know, the most painful things in the world back before we had modern dentistry, so The severity of the symptoms is a little bit understated because of modern science, but and modern medicine But uh, so if anyone knows me in real life by chance You probably know the first thing about me was oh, hey, yeah, bevin, you know, he was a vegan It becomes like your identity in a sense. If I somehow influenced you or Made you believe that I was I mean, I always thought I was healthy But um, I just don't want to have anyone be misled because it was at a point where people would come up to me I would always wear my vegan t-shirt at the gym and I look good, you know, and people would go Hey, you know, ask me questions this and this this Oh, you know, I started eating a plant-based diet and I thought about you, you know And I mean a part of my t-shirt activism idea was the normalized idea But now I'm like a regress of my crap, you know, I hope how many people did I mislead or uh, hey my wife? You know, I'm sorry that I even incurred and I don't really encourage me and influence you at all in that way So yeah, that's that's all I really have to say about it. I think that's you know, everything on my mind Um, I'll post a couple videos. I'll try to do a blood test again in the future If I can even get them to give me testosterone again, that was enough hoops to jump through Um, but I want to have and I don't I'm sorry Oh, yeah, I just want to have a You know an honest transparency and I'm just another anecdotal Another anecdote really, you know, where I'm just some person who did the vegan diet wrong So I already know, you know, I did my hemp seed here. This is quinoa hemp seed natto nori kimshi avocado um These foods like that those things in my mind were very nutritious and very nutrient dense. Those were the most nutrient dense foods I could find um And I don't know I did around and that's eating better than most people did on plant-based. I don't Yeah, I mean we could go into each of those individually, but I I mean I have plenty of videos that cover those things And I think people generally are pretty blind to the bioavailability of omega 3 from from flax Availability of various carotenoids and vitamins from certain plant foods. I think that's something that requires a much bigger discussion and the problem with that is Vegans will always bring up. Oh, you can't prove I'm deficient Dude, I can't even get carnivores to eat organ meats Let alone convince the general population that these fat soluble vitamins are important for health so that that discussion in and itself is much much larger And uh, you know, I don't think anyone should feel bad for you know, past decisions They made based off of their present knowledge at the time. I don't think that's something that that we should ever worry about But I would definitely like to wrap this up because you know, we're just going to keep bringing up things that we could talk about I'm sure yeah, yeah, three four hours if we wanted to But uh, I did want to ask, uh, did you want, um, I mean maybe, you know You could probably just comment on the video and I'll pin your I'll pin your comment So everyone can go to your channel and watch your video Uh, did you want to do that? Okay. Yeah. Yeah, we can do that That makes a lot of sense, uh Did you well, you know, did you want him to reach out to you like on instagram or twitter or anything? I don't I try to minimize my social media. It's a addiction that I'm not just carrying on an idea. Okay So facebook I have a facebook, but I try to minimize that so what's your name on youtube? Um, banana bandana All right, so if you guys want to Speak to devon on youtube He's going to comment on the video. I'm going to pin the comment. You can go comment on his videos and talk to them Thank you guys who have tuned in and watched this. I think this turned out really well Uh, let let me know what do you guys think? I think we had a really nice conversation A lot of back and forth some some very very good information was presented on various points that I think will educate people and That's why I like doing videos like this. It's longer Some people might not listen to the whole thing, but it covers literally 10 to 20 video topics that I'd have to do individually And even when I do bring up topics, I can't sit here and explain everything every time. So that's definitely One important aspect of it, but if you guys would like to support me, please just share the video Uh, I have been doing you know, if you guys are on the carnivore diet If you guys are interested in fitness routines looking like a greek statue Then please reach out to me via my email frankeitofano at gmail.com. I will put it in the description Uh, but outside of that, let's say, uh, let's say goodbye to everyone. All right. Let's get that last makeup check in Oh, we have to I mean, we don't you don't do you don't do two makeup checks, man Hey, why You could have put one in I could have edited one in Oh, that's right. Yeah, if we cut the clip. All right, we'll see But uh, let's say bye to everyone. Bye. Thanks