 Well, hi. Welcome. Welcome to Bring Club. I'm Mel Hauser. I use she, they pronouns and I'm the executive director of offerings belong. Well, share screen and get us oriented to our program. Right. So, um, Sarah, are you on, are you want to let everyone in duty so I can move the move the window out of my visual field? Sweet. Okay. Amazing. Thank you. Okay. So our conversation today will be around understanding your access needs with a focus on access needs in employment. Bring Club, of course, is our weekly educational program that to educate the broader community about neurodiversity and related types of inclusion. Just going to name that this is an education space. This is not for medical or mental health advice. This is not a support who does offer those things, but that's not great. All forms of participation are okay here. As many of you have figured out, you can have your video on or off and even if it's on, we don't expect anything of you. We certainly do not need you to sit still or look at the camera or any of these other neuro normative conventions. So feel free to walk, move, fidget, stim, eat, take breaks, whatever works for you, including observation is a completely valid form of participation. And, you know, we want people to be able to participate however, however, you are most comfortable. And that includes all formats of communication on muting and using mouth words. We do have a portion of today's spring club that's a prerecorded video panel. So during that time, we'll have the chat box running. And the chat box I'll also say is that please don't feel like you have to get your thoughts out quickly. It's still free to if you see something in the chat or even you see something in the video and you have a thought about it 10 minutes later, completely fine to to talk about it, whatever you your idea comes to you, you know, that is, that is a totally normal brain blow culture. The chat kind of runs in parallel, it does not usually exactly coincide with what's going on on the video panel. So just, it's kind of like parallel conversations so just feel free to engage in on your own terms in your own way. Here at brain club it's really important to us that our you know our view of the world that we all have different brains and bodies and there's no one correct type of brain or body that's really infused in everything in the talk about here at brain club. And it's really important to us to to safety to all of you to all participants. And so in addition to affirming all aspects of identity. We really value the collective access needs what the group needs to engage in this educational program and so we try to really very intentionally facilitate this in order to Q safety to all of you. Speaking of which we do have a private messaging enabled so if you have a question or a comment and you'd rather it not be public. Feel free to send it as a direct message to me and I'll read it out without me. It's like anything you need about your access needs or if you feel excluded or anything you can also please feel, please, please reach out to us. You know our goal here is to create a space where people can collectively learn and unlearn together where everyone can feel safe and for many really experienced something different from the quote outside world. And I love this quote from one of our community advisory board members to have a place where I'm not masking. I'm not acting, and I'm not spending over half my mental energy, asking what they expected me. I don't have that anywhere else. That's what we're going for here at brain club. And, and we try we aim for that in all our programs really. And so, you know, to that end, we have a spread the word team that helps spread the word about our programs on social media, etc. Let's see if you can if you can post the spread the word sign up in the chat that would be awesome and we'd love we'd love we'd love we wanted to join our spread the word team. Last bit of access closed captioning is enabled you just have to toggle it on if you'd like to use it. So depending on your version of zoom, you might see the lab transcript closed captioning icon. But if not, for the more dot dot dot, and she's show subtitles you can do the same hide subtitles if you want to turn them off. And that's my visual support to actually open the chat box so I see it. So, we are continuing our month of December theme of our 2023 brain club greatest hits revisiting some of the themes that we have discussed throughout the year that our staff team thought were really important to revisit as like our most salient themes. So when you revisit a theme after months and months you know you have a different perspective because of all the experiences and conversations and reflections that you've had since the last time you thought about it. So, um, we journey on also name that actually besides our regular four weeks of brain club we have a bonus brain club as part of our virtual New Year's Eve celebration so New Year's Eve from five to seven 30 Eastern. And, you know, activities for all ages with resume breakout rooms, including a New Year's brain club, I, and, and live performances from Rajni Eddins poppies planet Barry and me and Todd Gevry I think it's going to be awesome and we'd love love. If you can join us. So, you know, why we're talking about access needs and access needs. I would define as anything that anyone needs for full and meaningful participation in your life. A lot of times that doesn't happen. What happens is whether it be at work at school in health care and relationships it's, it's trying to fit people into containers that don't work for them. And that's why we think it's really important to have conversations around access needs and that that framework of access needs what do I need to fully and meaningfully participate and make all the difference because when they're not met. And you can name that that's what's happening. It's a very different narrative for many people. So, as I said, anything required to meaningfully and fully participate, everyone with all types of brains has access needs it's just that they're already working folks. You know, our access needs are less likely to be met by the defaults of society. There's all different types of access needs, whether that be physical, emotional communication related social or interpersonal technology there's all kinds of access needs. And so, we talk a lot about access needs here, because that framework, figuring out what your access needs for even are. And then strategies for bridging those gaps when your situation or your environment does not meet your access needs. There's this concept of the social model of disability that in a, as opposed to the medical model that talks about the deficits of the person, the social model disability talks about lack of access barriers in the environment to access. You know, if I had a visible disability, like if I were a wheelchair user and I approach a building that does not have a ramp, I'm going to have more disability than if I approach a building that does have a. And so it is with invisible disability as well. So I'm going to read some quotes from our community members about what it's like to come to understand their access needs and then we're going to play a short video clip with a collection of interviews from our staff here it all brings belong about what it's been like to to learn about our access needs and then we'll have plenty of time for conversation. Like a lot of people throughout my life, I knew that many things weren't working for me. I never thought of this as relating to quote access needs though. I just thought I had character flaws. I now see a lot of this as simply reflecting the ways a brain like mine would rapidly interact with the neurotypical world. Yup. And another quote, I learned about access needs at brain club. Before this, I just thought my needs were too much. Now I know that actually these are access needs and that everyone has them and that I don't need to shame myself for them. And I would add to that when someone tells you explicitly or implicitly that one is too much and are shaming a person for having needs. That is a reflection on the person doing the shaming. And the quote. I see others around me with similar access needs. And I feel less alone. Great. Well, let's, let's go to the video. David, take it away. So you just added people to the back end of the cutie. And what are your reflections. My brain is a fried egg. And I know I know why it feels like this, because it was so much of a new motor plan with my dyspraxia and I used to feel like this all the time and I just didn't know why. And I would just think, Oh, there goes my brain again. It's just fried. So it's so nice to know now, like what's happening. And, and also for me to build my schedule appropriately so I can not continually be in this fried mode. So I'm sharing that and I wonder how that you have this lens of like, so, so like event, my brain is fried interpretation. The thing was not set up to work for my brain. And it's a new, it's a, it's a new motor plan. And it's going to be that much more demanding and didn't work for me. So then shift your narrative about yourself. Oh, yeah. For sure. Yeah, like, so I took some notes on the new motor plan. And I'm going to type them up and then like, paste it where I can see it on my wall, and then I'm going to use that support. I don't have to think as much and also like offloading it onto visual support. Like, it just helps me be kinder to myself and now I don't think, Oh, you know, my brain stinks. It can't keep all these pieces together. It's like, Oh, I'll just use my support and there it is. And now I don't have to be so fried and tired. Yeah. Um, did you know any of this about yourself like a year ago. No, just like a new phenomenon right so like the struggle has always been there. Like patterns of the struggle have always been there. But now you have this lens of like the thing is hard because it was a mismatch for my needs. It doesn't mean that I am broken or that my brain is broken or any of it. It's just like, yep, that's a mismatch. And now I have these tools about how I get my needs back. Yep. Yep. Exactly. Exactly. I don't I don't I feel like I don't have to beat myself up anymore having this new lens thinking everyone is doing it better than me and my brain just can't keep it together. So we are having a conversation today about access needs and how does coming to learn about access needs in general and rewriting your story. How has that been life transforming. I see it at brain club. You know, every Tuesday, I see people sharing their stories and having language to explain their experience in a way that helps remove the shame and the ableism that so many of us grew up with. So I feel like having language is the first step to be able to, you know, kind of rewrite your story and reframe it so that you can even know what your access needs might be. Because I think sometimes people don't know what their access needs are they just know that what is happening in their life is not working. And the, and they're not feeling alone in that. And when you hear somebody else talking about their access needs and you can relate to it. It builds connection and it builds safety. And a sense of being seen and heard. Seeing that someone else has an access need just like you, and that that access need isn't getting shut down, like, maybe it had been previously in your childhood, like seeing that oh it's okay to have this access need and someone's just like me. And then the process of letting go all that shame and judgment that that is my access need and it's okay. Others have that access need just like me. Yeah, because sometimes I think you need it modeled in order to even see what it might be. I think, you know, again, I think sometimes it's like, you know, things aren't working but you're not sure why and when you hear other people talk about their own access needs it helps you, you know, identify your own. And I feel like that's what I've noticed at brain club every Tuesday is that, you know, and being a part of this, you know, interdependent team that we have it all brains belong like we're constantly having this conversation about what our access needs are and. Yeah, I think it's just it's it's really unique and really helpful. I think in my 47 years of being on this planet. I'm still not even sure what my access needs are. You know, and just being open to not knowing what they are. And because you've been doing things a certain way, probably your whole life. And made adjustments to it. It doesn't mean that it works. It just means that you do it a certain way. So it's a lot of on on learning. But in a very safe way. You know, it's because without safety, it's hard to learn or on learn. Right. And that's what's nice about brain club is it's a safe place or any, any groups, any of our groups really it's a safe place to kind of explore that and let your guard down. And be vulnerable in a place where everybody is doing the same thing or not trying to do the same thing. Yeah, and I think the setup to like I've never seen anything like brain club the setup where you can come and just come with your video off type in the chat. And that use mouth words like I think that really for me that creates a lot of safety and like I never knew that I actually liked typing in the chat more than using mouth words like that's something new that I learned about my brain and that's been really happening. Because I always thought oh, you know I like more one to one things and less bigger group things but I think a barrier for me to groups is using mouth words, like knowing when to like come into the conversation and share or just wanting to step on other people's voices or or when they're sharing and stuff and just being really confused about all that but the chat like opens up that door for me to share and feel like I can be a part of the group and feel like I can belong in a, in a safe way for me. And I think when you offer everything with a menu of choices then suddenly it helps you get in touch with maybe what your needs are because I think you know something that I've learned through all brains belong is you know with one in five people being neurodivergent. There's a lot of people that don't realize that they could function better with certain adjustments and and when you offer you know things as a menu for everybody. Suddenly, you know people are able to say I don't know maybe I'll try that thing and then it works really well for them and their brain isn't as exhausted at the end of the day and it's like, you know so I think really like that kind of universal design principle idea of having lots of different choices for everything that you offer sort of allows people to tap into what their needs are. Yeah. For some reason I'm even blanking on what examples of what access needs might be right now. Right. I don't know. I don't know. It's hard on the spot. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. What are examples of access needs? Yeah, I'm trying to think of examples. I'm thinking about how even like through our scheduling system where you know you can text us, you can email us you know having those types of options you know you don't have to you know you can use you know the chat or you can call us and leave a voicemail or you know. That's I mean that's pretty universal. That's a nice way and that's not you don't get that access anywhere else really and then you know having virtual or in person or outdoor appointments. Those are good examples. I'm sure there's lots more but we're really talking about any way that you know would be beneficial for someone to meaningfully participate in anything in their life right so that there's a lot of possibilities for examples. And I think what we were talking about yesterday Sarah about just sitting with others as stories are being shared that there's so much power in that and just, you know, coming each week listening in and like hearing someone share and then you think wow like that's how I relate to the world to where oh I didn't know like that was someone else's experience you know I thought it was just me but like sitting and hearing the stories. It just makes you realize that you're not alone. You're not the only one. And I think that I feel like that is one of the first steps to realizing oh like someone else is a story like me I feel like that's one of the first steps for me to be like starting to rewrite my story when I hear other people stories and they're similar to mine. Yeah, for sure. Yeah I think I think when when we're working when we're working in systems that we know aren't aren't necessarily built for us or aren't built for anybody necessarily. It is such that temptation be like oh well you know, this is just broken and it doesn't matter what I do and everything's just going to be broken and that that overwhelm the feeling like you like just hitting your head against the wall over and over again the like. Nothing's ever going to change that that feels like the. For me that feels like the most dangerous part of overwhelm because that's the, that's the burnout of this is never going to change. And, and, and having that framework of my access needs aren't being met and I'm learning what my access needs are and I can advocate for them better. Like that does, like that does make a difference. It totally makes a difference, because it's almost like the alternative, you know in the shame spiral of like here I go again. Nothing's ever going to be different, you know, like, there's this other layer that's further draining, draining my battery of like, there's something wrong with me that I got myself in this situation and like how did I get in the hole again. Yeah, I think that's true because I think it really is I think. I really is tempting to just have that like, well I don't even want to like have that framework or think about that because if, if it's my fault and I can change it and there's something I can do and there's more actionable steps versus if this is my access needs are being met and at this whole system thing that seems scary because it seems harder to change, but it still is an important framework to have of of its its access needs it's the system not. It's whatever just not meeting my access needs. Yeah. Like I think for me when I'm overwhelmed. There's this sense of like, but there's nothing I can do about it, because the world is overwhelming and everything sucks and everything's hard. But what's new is now that I recognize that overwhelm usually means my access needs are not being met that that provides me a framework for understanding why everything's so overwhelming and even if I mean that there are some things that you know I have agency and privilege to address in that regard but even if I don't just knowing that that's why I feel so terrible, as opposed to this like nondescript weight of overwhelm. I don't know it feels different. Do you ever feel that I feel like it feels like the difference between like. I can't. I feel like I've been talking to so many people that housing this week and like oh I can't find any housing options because there's none out there and none of them are affordable versus I can't find any housing options because I'm not trying hard enough I'm not making enough money whatever that looks like it really is that that like social model. The social model. Yeah. Yeah. Like, when I when my brain does not perform in the way in which I am expecting it to perform. It's like the initial, the initial right now even like I'm having like a hard time like sequencing my thoughts and connecting them in order, but like, there's something wrong with my brain my brain just really overwhelmed it's got too much. It's got too much stuff and like something's not working for it on like, that's new that's like a new narrative. Yeah. Yeah, I think I was seeing that when I was. I was thinking about like how I'm, how I write notes and when I write notes and how if I'm writing notes at eight or 9pm it takes me a lot longer to write each note. And that is that makes sense and that's understandable and that's okay and that's not that my brain's broken it's it's eight and 9pm my brain's my brain's tired and it. It's understandable that it's going to take longer to do things than at whatever time of day my brain's feeling the best, I guess. And knowing that when you have access to your cortex to be able to even like think about oh I could actually make a plan like making plan is like this higher order brain skills so like planning what tasks I do at what time of day like it actually takes access to your cortex to even be able to have that thought if you don't even have language to even know that you might want to even think about making a plan like that that you actually could feel a little better if you knew what exactly was thwarting you. Even like I think as for us as providers we're talking about burnout every single day with people and we're talking about how to prevent burnout and how to work on it and that doesn't mean that we're not. I've been reading or listening on book trauma stewardship. And I think the the the part where they're talking about like feeling like you have to keep going because it's such important work and there's nobody else who's going to do it and like, I guess I don't know where I was connecting that, but that like I think that that part of burnout of like, I feel like I should know this and I feel like I should be able to prevent this because I've been here before and I know how that isn't have gotten out of it before. I should know better. But you don't have to take on that guilt of this because of me. Yes, every brain has a finite capacity and every brain when its capacity is exceeded by the demands of your life chronically is going to start shutting down into burnout state. It's self preservation. It's really about naming that naming about having having a framework for understanding that and because like when you understand that your framework for that you, you know, the story tell yourself about it. Yeah, changes. I want to share a couple of other slides that I forgot, you know, brain. Because I think a really important theme to me from those interviews were about the importance of normalizing access need discussions, just like making it an everyday, no big deal thing, like, what would that look like. So we for a while, we've been talking about access need discussions in the workplace. We've had a variety of brain club panels about about that. And Lizzie if you could throw in the chat the playlist to all the past neuro inclusive employment themed brain clubs. That would be awesome. The idea that you and you know these these screenshots came from a LinkedIn post I made a couple weeks ago about neuro inclusive onboarding, but it doesn't even it's not even limited to the workplace right it's just like everywhere you are, you know, how do you prefer to receive information. What is your preferred way of communicating information to others. What can organization or a group or anything you're part of a school you know anything you know your family, what can what can a group do to make you feel safe comfortable and fulfilled. What comes easily to you what's hard would drain your battery charges your battery. You know how how do you need to get feedback you know I think we at brain club we often talk about the concept of rejection sensitive dysphoria rsd. Whether that is in a workplace context or a relationship context relationships any kind like just the idea of there are nervous systems that experience negative or even neutral feedback is painful. And because as as so many people today have already said and you know so many people and most of the people I interact with in a given day would say that I don't know what to ask for I don't know what my access needs are. My favorite quotes of all time. One of our community members who said, I don't know what my access needs are, I just know they're not being met. Which is why you know in an employment in an employment space, you know, you, what we do here and Liz if you can throw that link to the because this is kind of hard to read I realize and when it was small it was okay but when it's stretched out it's kind of hard to read. So we'll just link to the original post if you want to want to read what it actually says, but the idea of like actually having a menu to pick from. And how do you like to receive information and having like some choices, plus, you know open ended we have people have other ideas, but your preferred mode of communicating information to others have some choices. So if you can combine a menu with open ended ways of giving input than that you know can can support that coming up with the idea of art. So that anyway I would love, I would love to hear from anyone about whatever's coming up for you and start reading backwards from the chat. I perceive that people are impatient and feel annoyed about change, changing the way something is offered or changing the way communication is offered. And this negative feedback it turns me from speaking up about advocacy. Yeah, yeah. Anyone else ever experienced that. So, you know, to even like build a structure to bring about change actually requires that enough people in a group have access to their cortex to the thinking part of their brain at the same time. You can see there's lots of people in the chat agreeing with you Caitlyn here from anyone either out loud or in the chat about what it's been like for you to reflect upon your access needs and whether that framework of access needs has impacted you in some way. Oh, she says I recently asked for access needs in the medical setting and had them refused. I can't even call the doctor at this point because this type of thing is so common. Yeah, so I mean I think that might be an example maybe of conflicting access needs. You know I think when someone needs a particular thing that someone else is not able to give because of their own access needs, what a world it would be if we had that framework to actually articulate that. I think that might have a huge impact. Interesting. So Jenny you're talking about like that that you'd worry that like access needs would get like overused and would lose lose potentially some, some meaning, or just kind of lose credibility, like, oh boy here we go like first they want to trigger morning now they're talking about their access needs like what's the world coming to and I'm always worried about invoking that reaction. And, you know, depending on who you're interacting with and what the culture is like I mean, if I enter an unsafe environment, not probably going to label what I'm talking about as access needs. I might, you know, it may take a different format, you know, you know, I work best when I have the kind of brain that does X. Yeah, I'm better able to concentrate when, yeah, I can get a lot more done when you know like you evoke these like all of the you know the oppressive systems and capitalism like if you're in a setting where you can kind of like use that to be played at that to get your need that like, I think that sometimes that really works. So, so Sierra says I think the fear of burning bridges makes it difficult to speak up about access needs and advocacy being blamed for burning bridges and losing relationships such a common experience for narrative origin people. Yeah, Jen is talking about reactions from sharing a diagnosis. And, and yeah, I mean, that's a whole mother that'd be like a really interesting brain club right like just all of the really. Anything ranging from ridiculous to like downright harmful reactions to people speaking their truth and sharing things about their experience, just lack of awareness. Sarah says, I heard Dr. Debora Matei speaking recently about how children are born with two basic needs, one for attachment, another for authenticity. Unfortunately, so many children are forced into foregoing authenticity in order to have their attachment needs met. So I have chills. Then in adulthood it becomes difficult to unpack that and recognize what our authentic assistants even are. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you know like we talk a lot about it brain club about just like surrounding surrounding yourself with people who get it, who you can have the experience of connection and authenticity at the same time like whoa, can you imagine. So the never experienced that you don't even know what's possible. And so, once you do experience that then a couple people shared in the chat earlier about you go back into situations where it's not comfortable. And now you really notice that contrast. Maybe a useful framework is less focus on the self and more this person is struggling. I wonder what access needs are not being met. Yes. Right. And it's that that that that reminds me of the way I responded to oceans comment. When, when, when there's when this conflicting access need framework, you know, can explain so much conflict. But when you have, when you have multiple people who you know because we all different brains or we all different brains that all have different needs. And inevitably we're going to have conflicting access needs. It's just that when two people both don't have awareness of their access needs or even if not both people like one person has an awareness of access needs and the other doesn't. It's very difficult to negotiate those conflicting access needs when you don't both have awareness. So my companies to annual meetings are dreaded by me there are meetings and events all day capped off by a dinner. Oh, I go back to my hotel room with a fried brain they want us to socialize I'm terrorized. I mean that is that is just so common right that it's that that that the default is that everyone would thrive in those kinds of situations. Without record and that and that in many cultures there's so much judgment. And, you know, it's, it's, it's internal conflicting access needs sometimes to you know if there's part of me that like needs to opt out of that situation. And so, you know what's my script what's my way that I get out of that. And is this the kind of place that I can be or this kind of culture or I can be authentic about opting out, or do I have to opt out and in an authentic way. Sorry the chat's like bouncing. There we go. Matt says I find it difficult to speak about access needs at work because of the preconceived neuro normative standards. So I find phrases that are more so it's like you almost you just you said what I was what I just said I should have just read what you said because you're doing it more articulately than I did. So try to find phrases that are more socially accepted a little easier for others to understand that doesn't work for me. I'm not efficient at this task so it's a waste of the company's time. My brain doesn't work like that but this other option I can get a lot done. Yeah. Congratulations Paul, Paul's opted out of the holiday meeting. I mean the other thing is you know, even you know neuro normative social sensory and like all of it that these gatherings and all of it goes along with it are just not a match for many people's needs. There's also, you know, COVID considerations, you know, we know that neurodivergent people are at higher risk of complications from COVID including long COVID. And, you know, large group gatherings may not be safe. Like it may not be safe to bring the air at such gatherings. So it's some it's it's it's whatever whatever it takes to take out the boundaries that are safe to stake out. And unfortunately, it's often not safe to name what what what one needs. Steve's calling to mind previous brain clubs about how we don't need to be good at all the things. Yeah, yeah. Lizzie if you could post the brain club. I think it was the November neuro inclusive employment brain club. I think that's the one where that came up. We have a panel of employers who are recognized through our offerings belong has a statewide neuro inclusive employer bright spotting program where community members can nominate employers that are creating workplace environments where people with all types of brains can thrive. We had a panel of employers being recognized for that program and what Becky Walsh from Oak people said in talking about her neurodivergent employees in that, you know, the neurodivergent people I work with are really, really, really, really, really good at the things that we're really, really, really good at. And I would rather that then find people who are really good at everything because it actually makes no sense that any brain would be good at everything we all have strengths things that are come easily to us and we all have things that are really hard. Which is why, you know, like, I'm neurodivergent job fair. What a cool idea. And, you know, but also, you know, I think it's, it's, it's, it's also I think like when I do trainings for employers, and certainly there are, you know, nationally you can find people on social media who do do trainings around, you know, these are the things you do to help autistic people, for example, autistic people. At the thrive at work. And, you know, I think, I think those competitions are really important. We have a little bit differently. We talk about neuro inclusion. The idea of, you know, you don't know when your employees are autistic or ADHD or any other flavor of neurodivergence. No, they don't know either. So it's the idea of creating environments where people with all types of brains can get their needs met and get their work done and feel like they belong and like have a good life. So, so that in what's involved there is just really understanding the, the access needs and the framework for access needs and really understanding how brains work, you know, understanding sensory processing understanding executive functioning understanding motor planning and sequencing including the steps in the order and like understanding where when something goes wrong or something goes awry or something doesn't get done like having that kind of framework to be like, ha, I wonder, somebody in the chat said this earlier, you know, I wonder, nothing with Steve. I wonder what's on that access need. And, you know, can can we normalize the conversation about what any everyone needs to do their best work. And can we offer everything we do in multiple different ways so using universal design principles, you know, flexible multiple ways of doing everything. Oh, Sierra, did you just take that as I was saying that dopa sink is awesome. Sierra says, um, universal design is really the only way to be fully inclusive in a world where so many people don't know their access needs, or even know that they have access needs. Yes. Yes, absolutely. David, I love that you said that because I was thinking about how to bring that up and I was like, Oh, is that going to be like is that going to open a thing but anyway you open the thing so let's open the thing. You know, it's not just annual corporate meetings it's it's it's the extended family for holiday gatherings. Absolutely. I mean it's interesting I've had so many conversations with people in our community this week the people are like so stressed out about the extended family gatherings like. Yeah, so what would it look like. Wait, did we just dopa sync about dopa sync we totally did Sarah that's amazing. So I don't know what what what what could it look like to the name ones access needs, heading into extended family gatherings. So what I did last year, it worked well for like five seconds, but it was a good five seconds. So my turn taking right normalizing turn taking and maybe with a visual support or a tactile support. Or you mean like even even turn taking in terms of you know, can you say more about that turn taking like, like normalizing that in a conversation so that everyone's not talking at once is that what you mean. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, looks like I'll go ahead in my room till you go away right and like maybe that's okay right so just normalizing like yeah I need a break. I need space. I have a kind of brain that I can do the interaction thing for like five seconds and then. Or what would it look like to plan something completely different. But it doesn't have to just because it's always been the way that we've done it. Yeah, and as Sierra saying, having like a an activity running like a puzzle or you know something that you know is is socially acceptable to give people an out. Last year my five year old, and I we my then five year old father six now we wrote we came up with like our family access needs and you know it was really only me and them participating but we wrote out our ground rules. And we have a big whiteboard so that when visitors came, it was really clear what those access needs were. That last like the first day of the of the visit that that worked well to have a visual support of like you know, autonomy is really important we'll call everyone by their names and pronouns. You know, um, basic things. Because we're recognizing the access needs of the person for whom that change is is is new. Maybe wouldn't have had awareness of a need for visual support, but very much needed the visual support to remind them about this is how we're going to do this again for five seconds. Um, Dave says I'm passing on a huge complex brawl with my partner's very large extended family, far away with lots of driving between the various places. We'll just have Christmas brunch with with with a with a smaller subset of people. Yeah, yeah. Way to honor your access needs that's awesome. I don't remember in the space to do what they need without judgment. Yeah, you know when I said tactile keys I was thinking about the talking stick I think it's amazing I think I love that so much. We have a talking stick or like a talking item in our medical office like it's it's it's on the menu. We have a universal design for healthcare menu because that that really is helpful for lots of brains. I often share that like my accommodation for my impulse control, especially when I get like really animated and heated about stuff is like the mute button on zoom. I need it I need it to not be like constantly blurting and like talking over people and interrupting everybody and all because like anyway, I wish I had a wish to carry around a mute button in real life. Like it's not my turn. Sarah says authority be I've learned the phrase I have the kind of brain that yep. So it's interesting I've been I've been saying I have the kind of brain that before I actually knew what kind of brain I had. That's the phrase that I initially started teaching my child like from really really young. I was talking about brains all the time you know I have the kind of brain that you know things are really loud and they really bother me. I have a kind of brain that I really want to know what to expect I really want to know what's coming next. I have the kind of brain that like, I need to move when I'm listening to you or like I can't pay attention to you. And, again, I didn't know anything about my brain when I started saying that so that's really ironic. Love teacher from others. If others want to be heard or read. Hi, this is summer. Hi, everybody. I've been listening and I find that I am definitely telling people, maybe more of my access needs without really caring what they have to say. And so I feel that sometimes I intimidate people, because I kind of know what I want, and I'm just like, Oh, I have to my headphones on. I can still hear you but I can't stand the sound of your voice right now. So I'm either going to have to like leave this party or this is what you're going to have to do. It is what it is. So sometimes for me it's like how do you kind of pull that back. I think a lot of people like, you know, neurodivergent, neurotypical, we just have so many learned behaviors, like one thing that came up recently was, you know, sneezing, and saying bless you. I just don't understand it. It drives me crazy. So I asked Siri, why do we do this. And in like 1648 Pope George something, you know, there's a poblanic plague in Europe, and people were dying. And so the Pope started blessing all the sneezes. Well, we don't have the poblanic plague anymore why am I blessing somebody sneeze. It's like, you know, you start to sort of rehearse this and maybe now I'm going to say, Oh, that was a great sneeze or maybe I won't say anything. But I used to be offended when people didn't bless my sneeze and I didn't know why. So I think there's a lot of different pieces to the whole process of trying to tell you people what your access needs are but then, you know, sometimes they're going to think that that's just an excuse and they're just not going to get it no but you give them as far as information, and just trying to kind of navigate through all of that. I think getting the awareness out there to employers to your family and friends. And kind of just being like, it is what it is and us building courage with within ourselves, so that we can be that voice that others can kind of take part in and circle this around is really important. I just love everything you just said, and that I had no idea about the story of the less you and the sneeze. So, um, yeah, um, I summer ever I just love everything you just said, I think I think this is so important and I think like, I would layer on top of that just thinking that we all have a finite capacity of time of energy of, you know, if people are familiar with the concept of spoons. It's a term used in the chronic illness community, finding amount of bandwidth. And if you're going to spend it on people who don't get it to provide them detailed explanations of like what they need to get. But you're going to run out of bandwidth earlier, you're going to drain your battery in ways that don't serve you. And so what's like the bare minimum amount of effort that can be expended to articulate your boundaries. You know, it may be that you don't do much explaining at all, you just take the space you need. And, you know, I think I think another another thing that that happens as as I think this kind of comes in waves sometimes, like, as a person develops an awareness of their access needs as someone, you know, including like, you know, you spend time with people who get it, you learn about, you know, at least I can speak for myself I learned more I learned so much about my access needs, when someone else describes theirs and I match it I'm like, Oh, that's words that make that that applied to me and those aren't necessarily the words that I would have used to describe my internal experience but now I have language that you provided me so I have my reflection reflected back to me through the stories of other people. Now I have language anyway so you go through these experiences and you're shifting your own narrative of your own life, and you get you get sometimes really. Oh, thanks Lizzie that's great. I can maybe make it clickable with that. There we go. There we go. Now it's clickable. So anyway, what I was saying is that so you shift your own narrative and then like you go out there right and there's a tempting to you know you go through these phases of like telling everyone about your access needs and you know going here and sticking your boundaries really passionately enthusiastically and then, you know, that might also drain you too far in the other direction and now you're exhausted and so it's like this fine tuning of what would it look like to shift my own narrative and not exhaust myself by like fine tuning, you know, how I spend my own resources, my cognitive resources and my emotional resources and my energetic resources and all of it and so, you know, if what you have capacity for is to just walk out of a room without any explanation at all, do that. So with that, thank you, thank you all of you for being part of this conversation. And we look forward to to to next week on the 26 next Tuesday and we'll be talking about shifting one's own narrative really building on this conversation. So thank you all so much and good luck this weekend.