 Hello everybody. Welcome to Brain Club. I'm Mel Hauser. I use she they pronouns and I'm the executive director of all brains belong. And this is brain club. Let me share screen. I'm going to get oriented. So tonight we will be having our monthly book chat for the past few months the last week of the month we've been having a book chat where there's no pressure to have read the book. It's more introducing some concepts that provide insight and different perspectives related to neurodivergence and we'll have conversation. Monica is asking if anyone's watched the film. Yes, I did. I've read the book many times and it's probably one of the only times that I felt like the film based on a book was was like a lot of value added. So, so yes, I recommend both. So here we go. So just by way of introduction. Brain Club has been growing lately, and it's been a while since we've done like a zoomed out overview of brain club so what is brain club brain club is in a very intentionally created education space for the collective all brains belong community with a purpose of creating the community about neurodiversity neurodivergence and just like what what brain club is not is it's we just don't have capacity to function in the role of a support group and function in the role of providing medical or mental health advice with other programs for those kinds of things but not this one. We don't have capacity to be solving individual specific problems or process individual trauma. I just wanted to name, name those bounds. Our community agreement, which is written by our community advisory board, so that all forms of participation are okay. You can have your video on or off and even if it's on we don't expect anything of you, you feel free to, you know, do what he's doing, walk, move, stem, digit, eat, you know whatever. And particularly because a lot of people do participate with video off. We never know the age of people who might be in the background listening. And so just we created, we create an environment where that's okay that people of all ages and listen to what we're talking about. You can communicate in whatever format is most comfortable, either on meeting and using mouth words typing in the chat box. And I'll read out selections from the chat box. Generally, I'm not able to keep up with how fast it moves so I, it's, it's said, not not intentional if I skip yours by any means. In addition to affirming all aspects of identity. It's really important to us for to cue safety by respecting and protecting access needs, the groups collective access needs, particularly as the size of brain club has grown. So a specific communication ground rules because a part of neuro inclusive space is having clear ground rules to protect and respect group access needs. So as I said just out of respect for other community members including little ears who may be listening off screen, just to just word about just being cautious about language, and respecting and giving space for all participants. And if you've shared, you know, several thoughts, feel free to keep adding additional thoughts in the chat which one gives space for other people who might, might want to contribute to conversation by the way there's no pressure to do that either. Observation is a completely valid form of participation. You know, and, you know, if there's background noise will meet microphones and will just continue to work together to make sure that we can follow this community agreement. So access to turn on closed captioning it's already enabled you just have to toggle it on if you'd like to use it, either the lab transcript closed captioning. And if you don't see that depending on your version of zoom try the more dot dot dot, then choose show subtitles and you can do the same and choose hide subtitles if you want to turn them off. Okay, so to get into the books. The thing I will mention, first and foremost, is that there is my jump written by Neoki Higashita. So 13 year old autistic child who was a non speaking communicator. And Neoki wrote the entire book, using what's called a letterboard or a letter grid, pointing to each individual letter to spell out words. And in so doing has produced one of what what what many people describe as one of the like most profound glimpses insight provided into the inner experience of an autistic person. And David maybe actually we can start by if you want to play we have a quick video clip so folks can see what using a letter grid looks like. And that's showing actually this book has a sequel fall down seven get up eight. And audio just a question because my audio went out during the middle of it. What's that. Yeah, no, I heard it was audio or great thank you. Okay, so, um, as as Neoki wrote in that quote, many people describe this is my experience as well that reading the the these the descriptions of what what sensory processing and emotional regulation and motor planning and, you know, social misunderstandings and like so many of these things that that that are so much a part of our daily experiences that so many people when they have have learned even more about their own experience by reading a particular way in which, you know, he describes his experiences. So, what we're going to do is we've plucked out staff has plucked out our favorite parts of this book. And I'd be be interested if, and you know as as we're going if folks want to note in the chat if something really really resonates with you, and we'll try to get through get through all of them and then we'll have plenty of time for discussion. It's, this is I was I was telling Lizzie earlier, this is probably the only book related to autism that I have read. So probably three times cover to cover but like parts of even more than that. And I learned something new, I learned something about myself knew every time I read it. So we've broken these into some some categories. So there's a lot of the way that the book is written is that there are like questions posed questions posed to himself that he is answering. And what he says at the start of the book to live my life as a human being, nothing is more important than being able to express myself. It's about getting across to other people what I need, and need them to understand. There's sometimes when I find the sound of my own voice comforting, when I use familiar words and phrases that are easy to say, but the voice, I can't control is different. This one blurts out, not because I want to, it's more like a reflex, a reflex reacting to what what I've seen in some cases or just some old memories. When a, when my voice gets triggered it's almost impossible to hold it back. And if I try it actually hurts, almost as though I'm strangling my own throat. Why do you ask the same questions over and over. I don't repeat my questions because I didn't understand. In fact, even as I'm asking I know I do understand the reason why, because I very quickly forget what I've just heard inside my head. There isn't really such a big difference between what I was told just now and what I heard a long time ago. My memory is like a pool of dots. I'm always picking up these dots by asking my questions so that I can arrive back at the memory that dots represent. There's another reason for repeated questions. It lets us play with words. As hard as we try will never speak as effortlessly as you do. The big exception is words or phrases we're familiar with. Repeating these is great fun. It's like a game of catch with the ball. Unlike the words we are ordered to say, repeating questions we already know the answers to and be a pleasure. It's playing with sound and rhythm. Words we want to say and the words we can say don't match that well. When there's a gap between what I'm thinking and what I'm saying, it's because the words coming out of my mouth are the only ones I can access at that time. These words are either available because I'm always using them or because they left a lasting impression on me at some point in the past. Just because some of us can make sounds or other words, it doesn't follow automatically that what we've said is really what we want to say. Before I move on to talking about processing, I wonder if any of that resonated for folks about language. That says when people misunderstand me and move on, it's a huge trigger. Being understood is important to me too. Anybody else have any reflections on language? Anika says the concept of time I've always struggled with yes, yes. The TV says I don't feel in control of my mouth or it's when I'm anxious. Yes, yes. So when you think about, you know, there's several instances where the author is describing motor planning challenges. So this idea of the motor plan, you have the idea brain tells muscles, whether that be limbs or the muscles of your mouth and tongue, to do the thing you've planned, and then you carry it out, you initiate it, you coordinate it along the way, you stop it. You have all separate tasks of motor planning, and then feedback, you like feed forward that it becomes easier to do it the next time. And 86.9% of autistic people have some degree of dyspraxia, difficulty with planning and sequencing. And it's in many ways people describe autism as a motor coordination lens to understand a lot of the things that are challenging. This I think is describing this, that gap between ideation and implementation, which has a huge impact on self-esteem, self-concept, self-efficacy. That says last week is the same story as 40 years ago. There's somewhere in the past and I can tell it happened before that and after that, but as far as a date, what? Yeah. And I think that when I read this book, my child was four, and I read excerpts to her. And there were so many things that at four years old she's like, that's what happens in my brain. So it's just, yeah. So processing. So this is back to talking about asking questions repeatedly. Firing the question back is a way of sifting through memories to pick up on clues about what the question is asking. And especially for those of you for whom it resonated to say that like what happened just, you know, five minutes ago and, you know, years ago, it's all the same. It's some like, you know, gobbledygook of some time before right now can see how these these connect. And he went on to say, we understand the question okay, but we can't answer a question until we fish out the right memory picture in our heads. It's quite a complicated process. First, I scan my memory to find an experience closest to what's happening for me. When I find a good close match, my next step is to try to recall what I said at that time. If I'm lucky, I hit upon a usable experience and all as well. If I'm not lucky, I get clobbered by the same sinking feeling I had originally, and I am unable to answer the question on being asked, I get more flustered and discouraged. So it gets harder and harder to say anything. This is when I read this quote it blew me away sifting through memories is what I do, but I never realized I do this. Yeah, social penetration theory the idea that people become familiar with their own experience when someone else says it or writes it. Take ages to answer questions. I used to respond to what the other person has just said. The reason we need so much time isn't necessarily because we haven't understood, but because by the time it's our turn to speak, the reply we wanted to make has often vanished from our heads. Once our reply has disappeared, we can never get it back again. What did he say again, and all the while we're bombarded with yet more questions. I end up thinking this is just hopeless. It says though I'm drowning in a flood of words. And it says I described my thoughts as a rolodex to my psychiatrist. Yeah. See he says wow I do this to it's like a visual matching memory games sorting sorting my brain. Yes. Steve says I have to write things down and meeting so I can remember what I wanted to say and still attempt to attend to what others are saying. Yes. That says that's what I do when I'm conversing with other autistic sad is this relate am I really understanding you, if I can find something that match. It resonates a joy, right and you think about the neuro normative line of like, you know, you know, you're not supposed to share what happened in your own life when someone's telling you a story it's like well that's how so many people established connection, because I think, exactly what this is of listening. Flipping through the rolodex matching connection. Socialization. Why don't you make eye contact when you're talking. What were and sorry. Where exactly am I looking. You might as well suppose that we're just looking down, or at the general background, but you'd be wrong. What we're really looking at is the other person's voice. Voices may not be visible things, but we're trying to listen to the other person with all of our sense organs. When we're fully focused on working out what the heck it is you're saying our sense of sight sort of zones out. If you can't make out what you're seeing. It's not the same as not seeing anything at all. I will often describe to people who don't, you know, like, don't identify as being autistic don't, you know, endorse necessarily understanding this. And I'll describe that like I have the kind of brain that listens better when I'm looking somewhere else, but it was not until I read this, looking at the other person's voice. Well, that is absolutely. I wonder for anyone else is this resonate. As he says, yes, it's the voice. Steve says a couple of people say yes, she says definitely easier to listen when not looking at the other person looking at them races my brain. Do you prefer to be on your own. Don't worry about him he'd rather be on his own. How many times have we heard this. I can't believe that anyone born as a human being really wants to be left all on their own, not really. We're anxious about causing trouble for the rest of you, or even getting on your nerves. This is why it's hard for us to stay around other people. This is why we often end up being left on our own. The truth is we'd love to be around other people, but because things never ever go right, we end up getting used to being alone without even noticing this is happening. Right over here someone remark how much I prefer being on my own. It makes me feel so desperately lonely. Pause here. That says to feel like a burden is devastating. Steve says because things never go right. Right. This is like in I think this concept comes up at brain club a lot right where it's the the, the safety thing. And if so many people have never felt safe showing up as their true selves. He says yes exactly managing all the things needed to make a social interaction go well just not worth it doesn't mean we want to be alone. Yeah. I'm going to virtually go to this I'm going to read a couple more, a couple more quotes in the socialization bucket. Why do you ignore us when we're talking to you. Not noticing is not the same as deliberately ignoring. It's very difficult for us to know someone's there and that they're just talking to us by just by their voice. To me that's really describing the attentional tunnel. And if you're not in the attentional tunnel, you can't be attended to. And you know when we think about conflicting access needs, you know in in my in my house, because of and I think another quote was really talking about working memory, you know, but by the time it's my turn to talk I'm going to forget what I was going to say working memory So a lot of people in relationships, not only have that as a real consideration if I don't get my thing out right now. It's urgent because I'm going to forget it. And impulsivity of like, you know it's on you know, you know, I think it I say it I blurted. I mean you're not attending to me to another neurodivergent person who has their attentional tunnel on something else and so just to like bring some transparency to that of like, yeah, this is how this goes. It's just how our brains work. Sierra says that's my household 24 seven mine too. Yes. Is it true that you hate being touched. I think with any of these, like, you know, I think autism is, you know, not a homogenous, monolithic sort of thing. So anyway, there may be things in here that resonate or don't resonate but is it true that you hate being touched being touched by someone else means that the brain is exercising control over the person's body, which is not even its owner, which which not only turn brain, which not even its owner can control properly. It's therefore as if we lose who we are. It's also the dread that by being touched our thoughts will become visible. It's also the kind of brain for whom that resonates, but it helped me understand my child, who does a lot better cat says right such a huge question some touches good some touches uncomfortable break. Yeah. It's the same for my child. What are your flashback memories like the trouble with scattered memories is that they sometimes. In somebody illness like fibromyalgia and touches painful. Yes. Exactly. And we know that neuro divergence and fibromyalgia very commonly coerced her, you know, as a as a central nervous system. sensitivity, hypersensitivity, where the brain is literally perceiving pain. And this is this is far more common in autistic people. And as part of and I'll say more about this at the end. There's this day and neck neck neck next month that we're going to be talking about neurodivergent health and we're going to be talking next week about some of the common health challenges that autistic and ADHD people face. And there is this big cluster of neuroimmune conditions. So Julie, thanks for naming that survival my oldest part of a much bigger cluster of things that run together. What are your flashback memories like the trouble with scattered memories is that sometimes they replay themselves in my head as if they had only just taken place. And this happens, the emotions I felt originally come rushing back to me. It's like a sudden storm to do what you're told right away. Here's how I have to go about things. Step one, I think about what I'm going to do to I visualize how I'm going to do it. Step three, I encourage myself to get going. How smoothly I can do the job depends on how smoothly this process goes. I have never heard a better description of dyspraxia than this quote. As if my whole body, except for my soul feels as if it belongs to somebody else and I have zero control over it. I don't think you could ever imagine what an agonizing sensation it is that we never really feel that our bodies are our own. We're always acting up and going outside our control, stuck inside them, we're struggling so hard to make them do what we tell them. There's a lot of yeses. Skip around. Okay. Let's get to emotional regulation. I'm going to read a couple of other folks that didn't have a category. Why do people with autism cup their ears? It's more to do with the fear that if we keep listening, we will lose all sense of where we are. At times like these, it feels as if the ground is shaking and the landscape around us starts coming to get us and it's absolutely terrifying. So cupping our ears is a measure we take to protect ourselves and get back our grip on where we are. I found this passage really interesting because the author is describing something more than the sound. And when I think about how often I have seen many people cupping their ears, I have always associated that with there's loud sound. But it seems like it may be more of that. And when I think about if I have snapshots of memories of being profoundly dysregulated, when there's not loud sound going on, I totally get the idea of anchoring attempting to ground. It always says the anxiety caused by a din of sound is like a wave watching over me. That says even certain tones of voice can physically hurt. Do your senses work differently in some way? It's my own despair that causes me to misread the messages my senses are sending me. If all my attention gets focused on one area of the body, it's as if all my body's energy is concentrated there too, which is when my senses all report that something in that area is going badly wrong. My guess is the despair we're feeling has nowhere to go and fills up our entire bodies, making our senses more and more confused. Somebody in the chat and I like started to read and then the chat moved and I lost it mentioned monotropism, the idea that fewer things at a time captivate our attention and do so more intensely than for other brains. I think what that quote made me think about that. You know, if you have the kind of brain that's taking in so much more information, you have to develop an attentional tunnel. That says somebody did that today cup their ears so my first thought was that they had an earache. Nope, sound nope someone said something upsetting yep. Yeah. Sarah says, um, yes I feel everything and hear everything around me it can be hard to filter out. Steve says in a social gathering the many conversations merge into a wall of sound coming at me, I sit back and contemplate the wall, but I can't engage in the individual conversations until I recover. Yeah. Do you have a sense of time for us time is difficult to graph as a picture in a country we've never been to. You can't capture the passing of time on a piece of paper, the hands of a clock make sure that sometime has passed but the fact that we can't really feel it makes us nervous. Time can only be fixed in our memories in the form of visual scenes. For this reason there's not a lot of difference between one second and 24 hours, exactly what the next moment has in store for us never stops being a big, big worry. Pause with that. What is the experience of time like for others Kelly says time is my nemesis I'm grateful to live in a place with seasons otherwise a year could pass without my knowledge, having children rapidly outgrowing me helps me see time pass as well. That says yeah I never knew that I couldn't put here in a crowd I learned to smile nod say things like oh something to let them know that I heard them but really I couldn't understand the thing. I'm sure processing CV says like cut my ears when I'm overwhelmed and need squish. Yeah, exactly so grounding. Like he says I can't seem to be on time regardless of how important the consequences. Yeah, you know the executive functioning of like getting everything together out the door. You know I could give the kind of brain that doesn't perceive time. It's very hard to like work backwards and leave enough time, because it seems like you are. Sarah's describing hyper focused losing track of time that way. Yeah. That says hi couldn't move on the time conversation till I finished my thought about hearing yes exactly, which is totally okay. That resonates with me a lot. And it says blue light filled during glasses made my mind so much calmer. That's so interesting that's really cool to know. I've ever since having coven in the winter. I've really noticed that when I have my lights on. It really just saps my battery a lot. A lot sooner. Anyway, like shutting off the lights can really extend my the life cycle of my battery. And it says or if I know I have 10 minutes left I seem to constantly the consistent thing I have 10 minutes off like along the entire 10 minutes yes absolutely that resonates. Lizzie says trying to calculate enough time to get out the doors hard when you can't feel time. Yeah, do you enjoy your free time for me free time is in fact, unfree time. You can do whatever you feel like doing someone might tell us, but actually it's pretty hard for us to find something we do feel like doing, not just like that. If we happen to see some toys or books we're playing with or reading then sure we'll pick them up. The thing is, however, that is not so much what we want to do as much as something we can do. We want to know what your items is comforting, because we already know what to do with them. And so then, of course, people watching us assume, aha, so that's what he likes to do in his free time. That is also a description of dyspraxia, the ideation part of thinking what to do is hard for lots of people. I became a new parent. And I'd be like on my days off from work I'd be like, I can't think of what to do with my baby. So I like, I would like, I mean, I would get really overwhelmed by this because I felt like I wanted to do something, but I didn't. Anyway, so like I started making lists, like, these are lists of literally like what I could do, including like read a book, like that had to be on the list because I couldn't think of it in the moment. So dyspraxia need is saying that that happens to you. Yeah. Yeah. And it's like it's not in my when I would tell people about this is before I knew I was autistic. I would tell people about this and their response would be like, you don't have to plan activities you can just enjoy your child and like no no no. I need to know what to do I literally can't tolerate this moment because I don't know what to do in it. I would tell kids on lots of car trips and outings when they were little because it's a linear sequence of events. Yes. Absolutely. That resonates with me to what is free time like for others. Sierra, sorry your your your hand blended in with our wall. Oh, you're good. I also really liked that Vicki that was my mind and my dad's thing was drives because it's linear. I remember when I was when I first told my therapist that I had trouble on days off deciding what to do and she's like just just fill it out with your gut just thinking about all the things you could do and see what feels best with your gut and I was like I don't. I didn't realize that other people actually that was not just the same people actually felt something with their gut. I also make lists of the five different craft projects I have going on and spend 10 minutes on each one and then go back to the one that I want and that's, that's my sense. That's amazing. And Julie saying I both need free time and hate it. There are too many choices, what I should do versus what I want to do. Right and you combine that with me be if it's hard to even generate a list of like what is available to you just like you know, I can't think of a food, like not just like a, like a think can't think of a vegetable like I can't think of like what food exists. Sometimes. Alison says scrolling through Netflix for hours trying to figure out what I want to watch. Yes, yes, yes, all that. And it says I couldn't figure out that I couldn't follow instructions when they were verbal is that I've written for the longest time. And so that's why I still I fill my free time with, with, with TV. Yeah, great. And so, you know, I'm, it's a lot of prep work it's like when you have spoons. The idea of like making your visual support your visual support of your list like Sierra has or your playlist, you know, of your my list on Netflix or a playlist on, like, you know, the podcast queue or something because like when you're in the moment, it's just too much motor. It's not just I mean it's it's motor planning it's like all the clicking and sequencing in the particular order just no. It just says when I have free time I'm trying to figure out how to feel comfortable. That's usually less comfortable for me when there's something that if there's something I have to do. Yeah, see he says I saw open experience so much anxiety not knowing what I'm supposed to do next your descriptions of dyspraxia give me a name for this yeah. You know, you, what many people find helpful is the idea of like turning time into something visual, like blocking out let's say if you you know on a calendar, you know, blocking out, you know, what's going to happen in the particular order that you're going to do it and I remember I remember doing that as a like a teenager or my young twenties and like people would there be so much shame and judgment like why are you know why can't you be spontaneous as though like spontaneous spontaneity gets like overly glorified it's like I had no idea I had no language at that time to describe like this is what I need to pursue like the you know like the passing of time in a linear predictable way. Why do you keep repeating certain actions again and again. The repetition doesn't come from our own free will. It's more like our brains keep sending out the same order time and time again. Then, while repeating the action we get to feel really good and incredibly comforted. I feel a deep envy of people who can know what their own minds are saying, and you have the power to act accordingly. So that's describing inertia, object in motion stays in motion, dopamine deficiency, you start doing the thing and can't stop doing the thing. So somebody mentioned scrolling on Netflix, scrolling on social media. This is this is a lot of a lot of us have motor things that we start doing and can't stop doing and this is the management of this is to get dopamine so in our in our in our medical practice we spend a lot of time on, you know, identifying someone's manifestations of inertia, either foot on the break can't start doing the thing or foot on the gas can't stop doing the thing and the management of both is to get more dopamine. As a cat saying you listen to the recording to write it down to process it right to take notes on it to you know organize it make it linear definitely. Why do you get lost so often. I never feel at ease or ever, I am. Because of this, I wander off or run away in search of some location where we do feel at ease. When we're on the search, it doesn't occur to us to consider how or where we're going to end up. We're just swallowed up at the illusion that that unless we can find a place to belong. We're going to be all alone in this world. Why, why do you wander off from home came down to this. If I didn't go outside then I would cease to exist. You make a huge fuss over tiny mistakes, so I've made a mistake, the facts of it start rushing toward me like a tsunami. All I know is that I have to get out of the situation as soon as I can, so that I don't drown. Get away. I'll do anything crying, screaming, throwing things and hitting. Finally, I'll calm down and come back to myself. I see no sign of the tsunami attack only the wreckage I've made. And when I see that, I hate myself. I just hate myself. And it says there's so many layers to that. Right, so this is a, you know, the first time I read this book I didn't know that I was autistic yet. And I read this and I've that's so deeply resonated with me of the aftermath of a meltdown. I didn't know that anyone else had that experience. Turns out a lot of people have that experience. How's this part ranting on folks? He says it's the tiny mistakes that get you in trouble. Steve says mistakes ruin things. That says who's it to say that it's tiny. Right. So, you know, there's, there's all the like neuro normative, you know, this is a small problem. This is a big problem, you know your response is disproportionate like that's just brings out there's only the person can decide. It's been a decision. It's a limbic response. Your limbic system is going to react. See, because I feel it from head to toe for words. Yeah, this is this is my favorite part of the whole book. It's just, you know, so, so everything. Sarah says it helps me to feel empathy for my child as a parent. Yeah, so Sarah, I quote this this line to parents of my child patients a lot. This is, I mean, not only is there, you know, no fault of any individual parent but it's like a society thing, you know, where, where downstairs brain is held to the standards of upstairs brain. When this is an involuntary automatic reaction to threat. If, if there's also then, you know, the shaming, the invalidation, the, you know, all the things that, you know, happen really commonly in society comes back to I see the wreckage I've made and when I see that I hate myself. And it says all trauma survivors can relate to that limbic system response that he says when you're trying to mask it's hard to know how a mistake is being read by others. What intentions people are assuming about you based on your mistake everything becomes overwhelming, trying to understand the mistakes and all the consequences to the other people at the same time. Yep. Steve says the I hate myself business is the part I hate I hate it when I say that to myself in response to mistakes I made even many years ago I have a long list. Right and that's like part of the journey of unpacking internalized able is it's a, you know, it's, it's just why we think that, you know, that that journey is best to be done in community. Because it's the fast track to knowing you're not the only one, we have about 10 minutes. I'd love to hear from maybe maybe first I'd love to hear from anyone who hasn't had a chance to share what's standing out for you or anything that's coming to mind. No, no pressure. I just want to make sure we can create space for those who wanted to share upward. You know, we benefit for some extra space, since I have the kind of brain that doesn't feel time. Hey Sarah. I'm thinking about this, the meltdown thing and just thinking, you know, from a sort of an evolutionary survival standpoint because I always like to think about things in those terms but that that. Like, if it like if we're thinking about the stuff in terms of a survival response. And this is all happening in the and these survival responses are happening in the context of a predatory world. It makes sense. First of all, that there would be a group of people, like, not everybody, but some of us who would be hypersensitive to threat, and who would be hyper responsive to threat. And so, on that auto on the outliers that that could be useful to our species. And then it also makes a sense that that that it also makes sense that we that we might also be hyper sensitive and hyper responsive to vulnerability. So I've just so I've just, I just responded to threat in a certain in a strong way in the presence of potential predators and enemies who have now seen my vulnerability. And now I'm hypersensitive now my hypersensitivity is is now my hypersensitivity to vulnerability is showing. I can explain for me it makes helps to make sense of perhaps some of the extreme responses but also the the in general, in some ways the social usefulness of those responses, or the potential social usefulness of those responses. So anyway. So, so other Sarah just said so well but Sarah I could not agree more. Yes. Amen to that. To others think can open this to anybody who wants to share. I'm just going to catch up. Kat says, maybe it's the hate myself part that settles into trauma, maybe to hear that no one hates you for what it, from what just happened, it helps to prevent it from settling. Yeah. I think there's, there's also, you know, the element of agency. And so if you're going to combine, you know, lack of agency lack of autonomy, you know, not being able to do during threat that also contributes to trauma. You know, I'm just feeling so appreciative of what everyone's sharing. I think I just feel so seen and I've just noticed towards the end, like, I just feel like my stomach is a not in a way. And I think it's something like Steve said about like the idea of like, hating or like, it was the part that Steve said about like the years and because of the way my memory source right like we talked about this in the beginning because our memory source in a certain way. There's always that, like, kind of personalized threat of like, Oh, I remember I did this. I remember I did that, you know, and I don't want to do it again and I think that like the sadness that comes up for me tonight, partly just from like the feeling so so seen is like that I just want to belong so badly like it's the thing that I've wanted for so long it's why I'm asked the way I did, you know, and that the there's still this continuation of like, like being in a group where I feel like I belong and I'm told that I belong but the feeling inside of like, when will I feel like I can belong as myself to myself, so that I can just show up. And I think that's the thing that's hitting me the most tonight isn't like, like I feel so cared for by this community and I feel like I'm more and more myself and like, you know, I notice like I'll start cracking jokes a little bit more like other parts of my personality but I think it's still that part of allowing myself to belong. And yeah so I just wanted to come on and just like show my face and just say how just so incredibly forever grateful I am for this community, and what it's brought me, you know, and that I'll just continue my journey back to myself, you know, because I think I just abandoned myself for so long. I mean, and you know I think that it's, it's not a linear thing, like, you know, I have arrived, I have arrived at not doubting myself or not, you know, doubting the cues from my environment or, and I think that maybe some of what we process tonight about the lack of memory of memories of like you, if you have the kind of brain that connects every idea to every idea because everything is connected, and you have these like layers of memories and meshed in all the things that are now connected to each other, and you are not organizing memories in a linear progression, and the intensity of what you experienced at a time, 20 years ago is as intense as last week because that's how our memories are located I mean, how could you not feel terrible, most of the day. As Sarah said, you know, I keep wanting it to be linear and it's just not right. And so, you know, actually belonging unconditionally, you know, part of the city saying you know it's, it's, I think that all, all anybody can do is, you know, show up, show up, and, you know, and I think that's why, you know, we, we, we spent extra time on the community agreement part at the beginning because I think that it's the collective right it's the idea of like, you all belong to community, and the part of the community is in protecting the community. And, you know, figuring, figuring out, you know, how do you navigate conflicting access needs. How do you continue to make people feel safe to show up. And I think that's just a process that that we all navigate and we navigate it together. And Amy, if you could just see in the chat all the people expressing appreciation for what you've shared. So, so go ahead and you look at your, you open your mouth, go ahead. You want to say something else. I can't remember what I was going to say but yeah I, you know, wanted just to honor the fact that that. I'm like taking care of that part like that I, that I'm like being modeled like the people coming here and showing up. And the fact that like I can observe for the entire hour, and then have something to say at the end and I still have the opportunity. So I just wanted to say that like, I am taking care of the part that wants to belong and that I am being having the space to be able to show up is doing it and that I really feel like there's just this, this new, new way of seeing people come and and watching everyone else. You know, evolve as well. And that's been so beautiful just to like create these friendships and then see people taking opportunity to change and to love themselves. Yes. Amen to that. And I thank you. Thank you for sharing that. So as we as we wrap up may brain club. Our theme for June is neurodivergent health. And so we're going to be talking about health challenges health experiences, the impact of all of the many, many aspects of life they're not designed for us and how that impacts health. And, and I look forward to those conversations. And Oh cool thanks Lizzie for sharing that yeah so for June in addition to bring club we're going to be doing a lot of just more community education around autistic health. And so we kicked that off today on Instagram. So if you, if you, if you don't already follow us on Instagram, we are all brands belong. Awesome. Thank you all so much for being here we'll see you next week. Bye.