 All right, ladies and gentlemen, time to get started with our next panel discussion on technology enabling sustainability. I'm going to firstly invite our session moderator on the stage. We have with us Mr. Ramchandani, who's a managing director, advisory and transaction services, India, CBRE South Asia, if I may please invite Mr. Ram on stage. He comes with more than 21 years of real estate experience and in his present capacities responsible for the overall direction, strategy and growth of the advisory and transaction services business in India. Well, joining him, our next speaker for the session, we have with us Dr. Chandrasekhar Hariharan, who's a chairman of the BCILZ Homes, if I may please invite Dr. Chandrasekhar to please come on stage as well. He's also the co-chair of the Indian Green Building Council Bangalore Chapter and is also on the Board of Governors of Atree, one of the world's top 20 environment think tanks. Moving on to our next speaker, we have with us Mr. Amitabh Satyam, who's a chief mentor of smart transformations. If I may please invite Mr. Amitabh Satyam on stage as well. He was earlier the managing partner at SAP and global consulting leader for telecom IoT at IBM. Our next speaker, Mr. Adarsh Narahari, who's the managing director of monthly primus life spaces, Private Limited and Secretary Kredi Bengaluru. He also serves as the current secretary for Kredi Bengaluru and joining him, we have Mr. John Kuruvilla, who's a chief mentor with Brigade Real State Accelerator Program and he comes with more than three decades of diverse experience with some of the biggest advertising agencies of India, like J. Walter Thompson, Lintas, now low and of course Leo Burnett. Our final speaker for the session, we have with us Mr. Kishore Jain, who's the managing director of Jain Heights, also the president-elect Kredi Bengaluru and under his guidance, Jain Heights has pioneered in nurturing the concept of style and stature in living standards. Please put your hands together to welcome all our panel members, ladies and gentlemen, and with that energy, let's march ahead and Dr. Ramu, over to you. Thank you. Good evening, everyone. I hope we have a time slot available. I know we are running a little bit late. Thank you. I think we have a great panel and there was a very interesting session, the previous session that we had and there was a lot spoken about how we can manage developments around transit-oriented schemes and what really are some of the challenges that Bangalore faces. But I think while this conclave is more about what's happening in the southern markets and our topic is fairly interesting in terms of how can sustainability, how can we enable sustainability with technology? And obviously we have a few developers on the panel and obviously John and Amitabh, who are predominantly on the technology side. So fairly interesting conversation we're going to have. I'll pose this question, my first question to the developer fraternity over here. In terms of what are you really seeing in your developments and over the years you've obviously changed the way you have actually developed whether it's commercial, retail, residential schemes. What are you really doing in terms of creating these sustainable environments? And do you really use technology in creating these environments? Do you want to share your views, Kishore? We'll start with you. Generally for the business there will be two major functions, what is to produce and sell. And for a real estate we have the third function, the third angle, that is the regulatory. So not only we have to build, we have to sell again. At the same time we have to be compliant with the regulatory authority also. So now see how the technology has played a role in all the three aspects of doing business. The first and foremost challenge which we find with the regulatory. Maybe the wish list will be if we can have some digitalization with the regulatory authority in terms of the land, in terms of the approval process. Although some initiatives have been taken up but it's not adequate enough for the authority to move forward. Coming to construction. The construction technology in the country was always primitive in nature. And very, and off late in the last 20 years only. For manually there was a very gradual transition from gradual manually to the mechanization of the construction technology. The one thing, the one aspect which has been a dramatic or a phenomenal raise of the phenomenal use of technology was the selling part. The way the, it has changed the whole aspect. The way we used to do marketing, selling and other things. What are the business operations because of the use of technology has become more and more efficient and high performance. This is how the things have been changed off late. Good afternoon everyone. I know we have the afternoon session. I hope everybody's woken up after their lunch. So with respect to technology and construction, I'll just break it up because we're here to talk about sustainability. Technology for sustainability I'll talk about in a bit. But technology in construction primarily around like what Mr. Kishore said is your ERP systems, your way to reach the customer. And the way you coordinate with your different vendors. Typically this is what real estate has been using now for a while. The physical construction as such has not really evolved over a long period of time. We still talk about precast, we talk about tunnel form, but as such there's been no disruption I believe. Technologically in the physical construction of the way real estate works. On a sustainable side, fortunately or unfortunately most of us have been driven by government policies and norms in terms of wastewater recycling, in terms of STP, in terms of what the amount of dust in the air. So I think the real challenge here is the occupiers or the home buyers are maybe not as much demanding as they would be in other parts of the world or the occupiers are not ready to pay a premium. So if there is a greedy office space, let's say not platinum rated and it's going at 60 rupees. And there is another person who probably is platinum rated, he spent a lot of money. He spent maybe four and a half thousand rupees a square feet. There is no real delta there in the rent which would justify the spend in money. So unless that changes, unless the occupiers of real estate start paying the premium for bringing in this technology from around the world. Be it in electricity, be it in utilities, be it in through solar, whatever there are. And we have better people on the panel to talk about the technologies available. But unless the business case changes for a developer that there is a premium. Yes, you have a platinum rated building, you have the most green building in town. Here is the delta for you. Unless that happens, I don't see it being adopted by the developer community going forward. So Hariran, you've built a lot of green buildings over the years and very sustainable schemes, you want to share your views? Sure, but I won't come from this, the narrower context of just the building sector. I'd like you to reflect on the following. Today we have about 12 billion square meters of buildings across India built over all time shall we say. Between now and about 2030, the figure could shift to say 2032 or so. We're going to have another 18 billion square meters by every single account. There are researchers from within the industry, from elsewhere, who are testifying to this. And there is enough evidence to show you that by 2030, no more than 40% of the buildings that existed in 2015 would be that part of it from the past. That 60% more have been built. The second is this, we talk about the reality sector. I know this is a forum for reality sector professionals, consultants, architects, builders, and so on. But the quantum of spend between now and 2019 March. I'm not even talking of anything beyond that. Just the next 18 months and less is about 95,000 crores on highways. The government has announced 25,000 kilometers of rail lines, and that is going to cost them about 145 lakh crores. You divide that by 5,000 crores, and you will know our 6,000, and you will get this many billion dollars. The third is that the government has announced this. This is announced about a year ago, 50 airports, and the cost for that has been set at about 20,000 crores. Don't ask me what the cities are. It's listed, tier 2, tier 3, and so on. The challenge of sustainability and technology is therefore not lying in homes or in the residential sector. It's not even lying in the commercial sector, which in any case is going to grow something like six times from what it is today. The figure is no more than about, is that about 12, or is it 14 million square feet of commissioned commercial buildings? I'm not talking of those that are still under construction. Now, what can therefore be changed in these areas? There are only four areas where you can bring any change. You heard a lot of the government bashing that happened in the previous session. I wish Narish was here in Balkrishna because I had taken them on a few things. Solutions wherein spoken about. All we can do is, and thankfully here in this section, we are talking about private sector initiatives when we talk technology and sustainability. But having said this, look at this one single data that I will give you. Drone-based surveys for the next three years need 150,000 civil engineers. They're not available for just drone-based surveys. Look at this, let's not talk technology. Simply because of drone-based surveys, what has happened is for every kilometer of those eight lane highways, every kilometer is about four acres that you take as land, or consume as land. What has happened is because of the precision of contour surveys, the saving in aggregate and in sand has been as much as 27 to 28% they say. Now they have not said that, well, we have found a replacement for sand or for aggregate. The lament is still there, where are we going to get sand? We have no rivers and no riverbeds and so on. But the point is that this kind of subtle technologies which are not coming because of seminars that we hold and all the breastfeeding on sustainability, it is happening simply because of the sheer efficiency of slight shifts in engineering and of course the quantum of buildings that are happening or construction that is happening. So if I take just these three segments which is non-reality, the quantum of saving that we can bring about with very, very simple shifts in technology is going to make a very big difference in the quantum, in the natural resource effectiveness or use of natural resources. We just don't have it. We are on the top of the heap when it comes to water scarcity. We are the most natural resource scarce economy today in the world. We have got the fastest growing whatever GDP in the world just now. We are the second largest when it comes to green buildings and certification. We are at five billion square feet. We are on CAGR, if you look at it, we are the second largest only after the US on green buildings and certification, year upon year from 2011 consistently. We are the second largest, not even China. The last I will say is there is, believe me, this is a human species moment, not just India's. By 2025, we are talking sustainability, 30% of all your IC engines, every car and scooter that you're running is going to definitely by mandate become electric. How is it going to happen? How are we going to have cars which run at 400 kilometers today to run at 1,000 kilometers on a fast charge battery at 20 minutes? This is, believe me, this is seriously on and real. It's happening by 2025 at 30%. If I go back to the Paris protocol that we signed, Modi signed after his government came in, we have to reach by 2030, 30% of the 2005 levels are carbon emission. We can't reach it unless you and I, all of us bring that change. 40% of India, about 400 million people, have to bring this change in the ways that our behavior itself changes. And that is not to do with technology. Technology will foist it upon us, like telephones have done to you. You're sitting here, I keep telling engineers today, you're sitting on an information super highway in your pocket. All you have to do is whenever you have 20 minutes, open something and find a technology or something that you can use as a solution without having to buy it from a consultant. I'll stop for now. Very interesting data shed, and that's true, and we obviously worried. When you say we're going to have electric run cars, the question is where are the roads? Yeah, where is the electricity, of course? Where are the roads? And it all come through. Since you raised this about electricity, let me put it this way. In just 2015, 16, one year, we don't have the data for the current year. I mean for 2016, 17, data is still not coming in reliable ways. The quantum of megawatts, that is every kilowatt saved becomes a megawatt, every megawatt saved becomes a megawatt. The quantum of energy saved because of this one super-esco. I'd like you to Google EESL, WESL. This is a government private sector, public sector, whatever, energy supply company. The saved megawatt is more than the renewable energy generated in this country in just that one year. And this year, the figure is even larger. Institutions like AEE, BEE, and now BEE is transforming into another kind of organization. They are coming up with some really rapid sort of situations, and they're hitting all the low-hanging fruits. They're taking public street lighting, for instance. They started with Puducherry, that was in 2014, I think. So energy is going to get decentralized, and it's happening at the rooftop levels also. You saw this morning, suddenly IFC has decided that they will invest some 15 million dollars in one renewable energy company. And I'm telling you, this is just the cusp of an entire set of such changes, massive shifts that will happen, to get you to see that you generate energy at the localized levels. I just thought I must mention this since you brought up energy. John and Amitabh, the questions posed to you. I mean, you've obviously been involved with a lot of the technology players who are actually working on the real estate sector in focus. You wanna share your views on how much of it is gonna impact in terms of creating sustainable environments. And obviously, what role can the government play? Because in reality, we're talking of the government playing a larger role here to get things going, while the private sector does their bit. You wanna share your views? All right, so I'll go, okay. I'll leave the government part to you. This, we've been talking about this by 2035, no, too many cars, too many people, the requirement of roads that we don't have and housing. I think 2035 is very, very far away. I don't think it's going to be the linear growth or exponential growth of population or the road or the cars are going to be there. I think I propose that most likely the number of cars will significantly go down. Even the travel will go down significantly. A lot of work will be done remotely. The technologies of today will make it possible for most of us to not have to commute unless you wanna go on a vacation. So I think things are going to be very different. The energy consumption per capita need not increase as it is increasing today. So sustainability and technology are, if you think about it from the real-estate perspective, they're in conflict, right? When you construct a building, you're obviously destroying the environment by definition. Even if you look at a 2000 square foot or 1500 square foot apartment, we are looking at using thousands of kilos of sand and cement and steel, and each one consumes hundreds of kilos of petrol. So to make one kilo of steel or iron rods, you need about 600 grams of, so three liters of petrol gives you two kilograms of steel. So you are already hurting the environment. So how do we actually even look at, so I'm just looking at the future of it, just like the cars and the transportation. I think even the real estate industry will have to see how do we increase the utilization of existing resources. This is something that I have been promoting that currently if you look at a real estate, and look at an office building for that matter, my office somewhere, 200 square feet office, I use it out of seven by 24 hours. I'm only using it for 30, 40 hours a week. Most of the time it's completely unutilized. Similarly, if you look at, so I actually in my book, I joke about this, it's like having a private tennis court. You go play for an hour and then you're gone and it's available to you all the time. Similarly, your office is like that, so we have to increase utilization. I know we can see the sharing of offices becoming more popular now when you have a conference room that is usually not utilized, now it's shared by people. So we have the information technology, we have concept called cloud. So similar concepts are coming into real estate where we are sharing resources and optimizing the utilization of resources. Now, there are three aspects of how technology contributes to sustainability and how you are able to reduce overall cost. And the cost here is not in repeat term, but it is actually how much load you're adding to nature. So if you're containing, you are matching the growth with sustainability by measuring the cost in load of nature, like the number of kilos of petrol or liters of petrol you're using. Even during the design phase, right now if you look at the Indian industry is about $400, $500 billion hitting plan to hit about a trillion dollars in about five, seven years, that is the kind of amount of money that is going in. Even if you're able to save 10%, you can imagine how much we can save, right? 10%. Now that 10% is very possible. You look at the amount, my house in Mumbai that I built few years ago, they put like so much material into this and I'm thinking how do you decide how much? He said, well, we kind of have an experience. If you were to just optimize the use of materials of the existing materials today, we can save 10% to 20%. Even if you go to small towns, they don't have any architectural designs. They don't know how to find the right optimum amount of cement, et cetera, to use. We overdo things. I think if you just were able to intelligently advise that this is the amount of material you need, I think we'll save 10% to 20% low-down nature. We'll be extracting less material from the nature, cement or otherwise. And similarly, if you are able to look at the newer designs, and I keep joking about this, a typical house costs about one crore and a mobile phone costs about 10,000 rupees. But look at the number of engineers. Everybody's going into mobile phone, I mean mobile means internet, IT, all of that. I'm just encapsulating off on the mobile phone. So look at the opportunities that we have. Where is one crore, where is a 10,000 rupees, and everybody's working on the 10,000 rupees product? We should have to direct our engineers towards a 1 crore product and see if we can bring it down by 10 to 20 to 30%. I think it's very possible if you're able to reduce the material cost, create new materials which are stronger and thinner, requires less strength. What may happen is that the heights that you can build may have to come down a little with the newer material, which are a little bit not as strong. You are able to build maybe only five floors, but we have to find the right optimum cost of constructing a building by maximizing the square footage and minimizing the cost. So there are many different ways and I keep focusing on materials rather than IT. I know IT with the drones, with the 3D printing, and ERP and mobility, huge number of solutions, the logistics becomes cheaper. So the IT will bring in your cost by 10 to 20% anyway. Your total time taken from five years to three years, that will happen anyway, that's a given. In fact, almost no cost. We don't have to invest much, we just have to institutionalize our processes. But our focus has to be how you relate to the load on nature, to the cost, which is measured in terms of energy and material. So that's the technology we should be using. Sure. So I'm going to take a very pragmatic approach. I'm going to present data, which will stop, move to you the problem, and I'm going to actually give you solutions that can handle those problems. I came to Bangalore first in 73 from Kerala on a holiday. And do you know what was the number of hectares of built-up area and what was the number of hectares of vegetation? I'll just give you data points and I'll ask you a second question. In 73, built-up area was 5683 hectares, whereas vegetation was 48,650 hectares. Which means 68.2% of the land base in Bangalore was vegetation and 7.9% sorry, 93% was vegetation and 7.9, 1999. The built-up area went up from 5,683 hectares to 25,202 hectares. And the vegetation came down from 48,000 to 32,000. You'll be shocked to know that in 2020, the built-up area is going to go up to 66,455 hectares and the vegetation is going to come down to 2,108 hectares. Bangalore is going to be unlivable. Add to that another interesting, I love data. In 1973, there were 207 lakes occupying 2,324 hectares, which means one lake on an average was 110 hectares in size. In 2013, 13, there were 93 lakes and 446 hectares, which means each lake, the size was five hectares. So not only have lakes shrunk in numbers, they've also shrunk in size. I'll add another data point. 20 years back, the groundwater table in Bangalore in most places was 28 feet. Today it's more than 1,800 feet. Stock problems on one side. Water causes, lakes are polluted because only 30% of sewage is treated by sewage treatment plants. Out of 18,000,000 properties, hello, yeah. Very few houses have rainwater harvesting structure. And the population of Bangalore is going to grow up by another 40,000 people. Now this is the reality. You can't change it. Can technology intervene to do something? In this room, there are four companies sitting here. One is a company called EcoSTP, which can actually bring down maintenance of STP plants of builders to zero. Same cost, zero. There's another startup here called VGOT, which for 136 apartment project in Chennai has saved them 1,750 kilowatts of water a month. They save them now about two lakh rupees a month. There's a third startup here, which uses sensors and reduce electricity consumption based on smart lighting by about 28%. So on one side, you have a problem you can't run away from. And Ram government let them govern. Don't get them involved here. There are startups, there are builders, and let me tell you one thing, a lot of builder friends of mine today are adopting technology far more rapidly. When Jayashank and Nrupah and I met 18 months back, their brief was very simple. John, real estate and construction in India only invest 0.9% of their revenue in R&D. The threshold across industry is 3.3. Can you help us find startups that can help the real estate industry actually deploy their technology to bring in extra efficiency or reduce costs? So that, Ram, is my perspective. Sorry, I just want to, just like you, John, I also love statistics and numbers. So you mentioned that 92% in 2020 is gonna be covered. I wanna debate that number a bit. Just to give you, I'm a developer, so I understand real estate. The ground coverage, maximum ground coverage, allowed to get a plant sanction is 50%. And for your information, I've read that report. I can pull out at least 100 things that are wrong with that report on the statistics. So if 50% is the maximum ground coverage allowed, how can 92% be covered area? Simple, first question. Second thing, you mentioned about lakes. I want everybody here to know that real estate developers are the only people who have multi-dwelling units, above eight units, are the only people who treat sewage. So the water that goes out of plant sanctioned buildings is actually clean water. They are going and mixing with the sewage water, which is going into lakes, right? So if lakes are shrinking and lakes are getting polluted, I think BWSSB needs to be hauled up. I think the private developers are the ones who are actually leaving treated water out of their communities. I was not pointing fingers at any community. I was saying that this is the reality. And a lot of real estate builders are taking cognizance of doing exactly what you're saying. In fact, a lot of builders that I know in this room are now investing in technology, far more than is required to make sure that Bangalore stays livable. I'm glad that, you know, sorry. Yeah, go ahead. I'm glad that John's turning towards the positive side of things. We can keep bashing things. We can keep talking about all the grim news and the bad news that we have from the past or into the future. Energy, water, waste, as he said now. You know, all these three areas, any company which has started in the last six, seven years, forget the last 18 months, has had a CAGR, the industry segments have had a CAGR of more than 25%. If you Googled highest CAGR industry segments in India, you will find nearly 90% of them. Forget startups of today. I'm talking about 2013, 2014. They'll all be only in these three areas. Go back to what Amitabh said. And, you know, you must, you know, get to reading his book on smart cities. You know, there is a quiet revolution happening. Like somebody said in the previous session, well, there are no government officers here. And we love taking them on, you know. There are something like 600 administrative officers, different carers from 25 years to, you know, as little as, let us say about eight or 10 years for city commissioners who have now been working on these 142 cities. There are about 17 countries which are coming in participating, not simply at the technology levels. And as he said, technology is a given thing, you know. They are coming in to see what they can do at urban infrastructure levels. Three billion dollars are being spent, three billion dollars spent for over only 49 projects. Now don't ask me how many cities, the data is not available on, you know, for various reasons so far off the 142 cities. The government says that they have done only about 88 cities where the launch of these projects have happened. And I'm not going to go into what the smart city verticals are, where there are, you know, there are projects of various kinds that are happening in these. The point is this, sustainability and technology, even if they are sometimes in conflict like Amitabh says, is going to seek a quiet kind of a revolution without us talking about it happening in these 140 odd cities between now. And I would think about 2022, because that's the date that this government has set. This government is going to come back again by 2019, is I think a reasonable certainty, and they're going to keep the pace going. And as you've seen, no government which comes, no matter what the political party is, there is nothing reversed once it's been set charge. It's like a toothpaste. You take it out, you don't put it back. So every liberalized step is going to stay there. John is right. All I will say is energy, water, waste, air management. There is a guy sitting in Delhi. He started this company no more than about three years ago. He didn't do any more than 60 lakhs for the first two years. He's done 10 crores in the last March financial year. And what does he do? He sits in a room like this, he will put one gizmo on the table, dramatically show you how at the end of this, if it has started at 1200 PPM as carbon, it has gone up to something like 3000, and he tells you what do you want to do with the quality of air in your room. And he's got devices which sell at 8000 rupees, 12000 rupees. He's disrupted technology, disrupted cost. He's bought some of these things, breathe easy labs. You know, this is Varun, you're talking of another one. So that is air is the fourth, talking of materials. Istanbul has implemented this. There are a couple of projects coming up in Bangalore. I won't take names. Where a 66 meter building is coming up in, the shell is coming up in no more than eight months. You do your math on how many slabs has he raised in each month. And how does he do it? And that's a story. Go to anything of these kinds that has been done in Istanbul. Actually the technology first started of such a construction in Australia. I don't know why Turkey took to it. They are building massively. You saw what Modi is threatening as of this morning. He's taking on the building sector. And he's saying, you guys, if you don't shape up, you've got to ship out. He's saying that there's 40 million homes to be built, and I don't want them to be these luxury homes that some of us builders do. Clear the messages. And you know the amount of builder bashing that has happened in this country for the last seven, eight months. Very unfortunate, but that's how it is. The technology shifts that John's talking about, or Amitabh has said, is going to, it's inevitable. It is happening actually. We don't even have to talk about it. How do builders, I mean Kishore is doing some very distinguished projects, how do we ensure that in these three areas alone, which is what a builder is actually concerned about? Energy, water, and waste, how does he take to simple things like this with no additional cost, with the same things that he has to do, of course, if you don't mandate it, if you don't use the stick, we don't do it, or let us say somebody like others who actually owns the building, he has got to have maintenance. If he's spending, let us say 21 rupees a square foot, I don't know how much he spends, can he bring this down to 15, and that delta of six rupees, he gets back on some sort of a payback with new installations that he makes, even if it is a retrofit. These are all happening within the industry today. There is simply nothing that is surprising to me as a matter of fact. Yeah. Thank you. Coming back to you with Adarsh and Kishore. What are some of the technologies you're really implementing on building your schemes, as well as managing your schemes? And have you really implemented them, or in your previous point where you said, will my customer pay for it, so I don't want to implement it? So are you aware of what's really out there, and are you really doing it? So Ram, like I mentioned earlier regarding technology, on the construction side, it's more to do with faster, like what Mr. Harehan was talking about, tunnel form. I think we were referring to tunnel form. So a few developers are using that already. It's possible to achieve a slab cycle in a single day. The real question from a business point of view is whether your sale is going to keep up with your construction. So that's a completely different question. But certainly technology has helped speed up the process, tunnel form, precast, and so on and so forth. But where developers are really using technology is to make their own offices more efficient in terms of coordination between departments to use their ERPs, maybe SAP, maybe any other product, to get the customer quicker to reach the, on those sides we are seeing. And a lot of products are now coming in the maintenance space, good quality building management systems. We are able to bring down the cam. So a lot of technology is happening around that. Around sustainability, some of the things have now become a norm, solar for the rooftop, rainwater harvesting, sewage treatment plant. These are all, these things were considered as a green initiative a few years back. Now I think if you don't have it, nobody's going to turn into a building. A lot of the good quality tenants demand a lot more than this. They'll have norms in terms of how much of heat your building generates, what kind of HVAC system you're supposed to have. So we are driven, as developers, normally we're driven more by business need. So once the occupiers up their standard, so to speak, I think the developer catches up to that standard. Of course a few people always break away and try to do something unique. I think the ones who break away the market is not yet there to pay the extra premium. But most certainly there's going to be a lot more technology that's going to come into play in construction in terms of materials. So in terms of carbon footprint, the process of manufacturing cement actually creates more carbon than the process of putting the building together. So the work that happens below the earth actually gives out more carbon than the stuff that happens above the earth. So I think we'll see a lot more norms coming in from the regulators. Where I really wish for technology to come in is from the government side, because while everybody in the private sector speed is getting faster, the number of steps before you get to a decision is faster, the exact opposite is happening with government. If there were 10 steps earlier, now there are 20 steps. If a plant sanction took six months, it takes one and a half years now. So that's very unfortunate, because if a computer can generate a drawing, a computer can approve a drawing. So I really hope something happens on that side of it. Yeah, that's about it on the technology. In fact, the commercial building which we are occupied, which when we have built, we were not aware of this green concept. Design and built keeping the cost in the mind and how it can be properly ventilated so that the uses of AC, etc. can be reduced. And eventually the building was completed. And one of the residential project where we, by decision, we thought, let's design a green building. So while designing the green building, we came to know the commercial building which we have done already. It's surpassing the gold standard. And this is how all the journey started. And the green building, the green residential building, which we are aiming for a platinum, aiming for a platinum, and purely at a design level it is. It has been designed and almost touching to the platinum level. But then we saw the flip side of it in terms of designing only. The challenges of designing a green building was. One was architects were never happy. This is somewhere restricting our innovation in terms of the facade design. My cost, I think you mentioned about the cost, Mr. Amitabh. In fact, I would like to add up on the cost aspect. In this market scenario, real estate is going through the unprecedented challenge here. I'm sure every developer and every employee of our organization, constantly 24 by 7, professionally or personally, always keeping cost in the mind. So every time you're seeing how it can optimize all the operations, sir, it has gone deep down at the DNA level. So this is how the costing part. So when we go to the QS, when they do estimation, and because of the lack of awareness of the green building product available in the market, and which are very limited, which gives us a lesser bargaining power to us, and that in turn will increase the cost. This can be one of the main constraint which we force in the green building design. And of course the design part. And one of the things which we found very interesting Mr. Hariharan, you can look into that aspect. The pointing system in the green building was not weighted, it was unweighted like that. So it's all about the points only. There's nothing like, you know, which can give a weightage to one particular aspect. So the gaming of the system has started at the design level. So this is one thing which we found. And plus the discouraging factor was when we go to customers, they won't bother. There's no premium attach to it. When you go particularly to the residential sector, there's no premium attach to it. Although you end up incurring costs in double digit. Some of you try to constrain that. So the premium is lacking. Of course, there are some intangible benefits of a green building. The marketability is very, very high. The moment you say it's green building, the marketability is high, and somewhere it adds up to the corporate image also, it reflects, you are a responsible developer. You care about the environment where you live, as such. This is on the design part. And the construction part, we wanted to use for one of the commercial building in the heart of the city with the prefab technology. So designed accordingly, and when we approach to the prefab technology, then the challenge was being in the heart of the city, the logistical challenge. And you need that kind of scale to have the prefab technology. And eventually to cut short, we ended up with the PT, pretence and stress technology. So there are, yes, the answer is a design level and execution level. Users of technology is very, very high. Thanks, Kishore. I just want to add to what others you said. There's a company in the US called Solidia. Solidia has completely disrupted cement manufacturing. It uses 40% less water, sets in seven hours, and produces 60% less CO2. They raise $100 million, and within, to your point, three years they were acquired by one of the world's largest cement manufacturers. Another company, you talked of green building, I met a builder, Suhail. On his rooftop, he had created vegetable gardens. He told me I have three problems. A, there's a lot of water seepage. B, there is, you need tensile strength for the pillars because each kilo of mud is 80, each square foot of mud is 80 kilograms. So there's another startup called Natural, which actually brought in capillary-based coco peat, which produces no leakage, weighs one-tenth the size, and comes with manure in the system. So a lot of technology happening. A lot of builders are slowly adopting them. In fact, heartening news, Ram, and you know this, many of these builders are now investing in these young companies, which is, I think, the best thing about what's happening to this industry. You know, actually people say that early movers have an advantage if you are innovators and pioneers. Things like these that he's talking about, there's a Hyderabad company I know of, in 2006, he started with Vermiclight, and a third of what weight and gravity will be, value will be when it comes to pods and plants and such things. And these are things now that are getting to be recognized. Back to what Kishore said, see if you look at any rating system, and the ratings, I stand by them only because what used to be emotion, what used to be passion and sustainability as such things have actually become methodology based today, and any engineer down the line or an architect down the line, I'm surprised that there is an architect who's resisting things when it comes to being directions. What happens here is there are 100 points if you go to an IGBC system, if you go to an EDGE or a VEL, or a GBCI rating system, or even say LEED, for instance, which comes from the USGBC, or GRIHAR, which is homegrown and government-owned, you will see that by and large they have things that are more or less the same. There's nothing that is very much different. It's the approach. And as Kishore said, you go with the building, you go with actually intent, your certification is the basis of only design intent, intent of design, which means that as you go along and you execute the project, at the end of it, let's say you have not done some of the few things that you first testified to or sought to do, well, a platinum can become a gold or some such thing. And there are challenges here too in terms of what you have marketed and what you have delivered to the customer. There are, what is it called? There are mechanisms, as backup mechanisms go, for ensuring that a person who has applied is not actually defaulting on any of these things. And I'm not going there today. All I'm telling you is this, that if you are a builder or if you are a service consultant, you are a structural consultant, PHE, electrical consultant, or the green consultant, which is a new crop, and you don't have any more than 120, 130 such consultants across some 18 cities today. And I don't know if your architect is working with a green consultant. What they are doing is this. The first concern that a builder has is cost. Today, you are probably doing it about 18, 50, 1900 rupees per square foot, if you're an apartment builder. And as Amitabh said, cost is a challenge anywhere. You ask any white man who comes to this country and offers a technology, the first thing that the Indian businessman wants to know is cost. Don't tell me about anything else. I mean, you can talk about your technology after that sort of thing. If you're talking, say, any of these technologies that John is also talking about today, they are coming at, surprisingly, they're coming at cost that we didn't have even in 2012, 2011. Costs are disrupted, technology is disrupted. I mean, you could buy a solar system per kilowatt at four and a half lakhs in 2010. I was one of those foolish guys who did that. Today, I'm buying at 70,000 to 80,000 rupees. We have got 140 homes generating 380,000 units, which are the 10x of the central grid, is four million units that is saved for the central power grid. Someone said this, I think it was Kishore or Ram, I'm not so sure. We have to get the government out of the system. I think John said this somewhere. We have to think that there is no government and we are in a unique situation here if you're within the private sector and working buildings where you can shape your destiny to somewhat, I mean, barring all those regulation challenges that we all have. You can do these things without having to go to the government and without having to spend more money. I think there isn't very much conflict, therefore. And sustainability, I think, is not a word that we need to be using anymore. We need to do this simply because the customer needs a better thing that you want to give. And the building industry actually has moved into a slightly more professional mode than it was, let us say, in 2011 or 2012. Yeah, I've just been told that we have to open up for questions. Should we... One last point Amitabh and John and then... Another one, I mean, I wanted to say that too, that about sustainability, about renewable energy and so many things that we have been talking about. I mean, I sometimes end up looking 10 years ahead and I see these problems solved already. I don't even see that these are structural problems anymore. We already have in India a gigabit, not gigabit. I'm used to saying that. Gigawatt solar energy plants. And these are increasing. I mean, the prices have come down so much. So the energy availability is not going to be a problem. Even the pollution is going to decrease. The number of commutes are going to decrease. Number of new construction is likely to increase just because we don't have any, but other countries should reduce. So overall, in 10 years, I personally don't see a serious problem of sustainability or environment or even availability of energy. And the second minor point is that the green definition or that green, we use those green certifications for our buildings, they have very restricted definition. So I use the word smart index actually. I have created a methodology called a smart index which is more encompasses many more things. I think it's a little bit more complete. So anyway, another time, thank you. I can vouch for the technology platforms that are really being coming and what are really already adopted globally in the western world and in most matured markets. And the technology that's already there for India, there's so much to solve for in India. And as John pointed out, there are so many startups in India who are really working towards some of the challenges that we have in India and not necessarily that are out there in the US or in the European markets. So there's enough of technology that's been developed in India for India. I think the key is how do we make it aware to the community as a whole? And others to your point, in terms of whether clients will really pay a premium for it, end of the day, technology is gonna save you money. So do they really need to pay a premium for it? End of the day, you're creating those environments, those communities. I don't see a challenge in the occupiers actually paying for that quality or that environment so long as you're making sure you're telling them what you're providing. We'll just open up the room for questions to the panel. So any questions for the panelists? Yeah, I'm Divya Tiwari. I'm from an organization called Sahas. We are into waste management. My question is, you all of you have talked about the standards. Now the other aspect is there are a lot of organizations like us who are trying to provide and come up with solutions and technologies around sustainability. Real estate can really play a big role in helping our organizations like us to grow and build capacities. But we often see that the focus on sustainability remains in energy and water because the weightage given to these two aspects in your standards is quite high. Is it now time to look at your standards and see what are the current problems that the country is facing? And I would say waste is very high up there. Can you look at reframing these standards to give more weightage to the real problems? Energy in a way is taken care of because you improve your energy and efficiency cost anyway comes down. So is the case within a way for water also. So can you look at your current issues and how your standards actually represent the current problems and hence encourage solutions around it? That's a very important point and thank you for raising waste. I'll just give you one example. I mean, a lot of you live in communities. How many of you actually manage your waste at home when you dispose your waste? The bigger problem is that people actually don't care about it. They just dump everything down unless you're in a building or a community where it's very strictly adhered to. While the key is that there are enough technologies available how to manage waste, the key is how many of the people actually really take that to importance and manage their waste out of their homes. You wanna take that, Hari? Divya, your question has two parts to it if I understand you right. One is the reluctance of a customer. Call him a resident welfare association if it's a retrofit or a builder if he's doing a new project. The second is regulation itself. Why is it not incentivizing with maybe more points or some such thing in the green guidelines in order to see that we are able to have waste mandated in some ways or put into place into every apartment, every project? Now, on the second part of it, I've already discussed it with you. We'll have to see how we mobilize as you're doing today. Public opinion, builder opinion in a way that we are able to raise that 10 points that we have on the 100 on the green guideline to see if it can be maybe 15, 16. As a matter of fact, in that 10 as you pointed out the other day, only two points go for actual doing a wastewater inside a campus. The rest of it is going for everything else, not for wastewater. Kishore, since you have gone through this process on wastewater, what is the challenge you found when you applied for platinum? Maybe with that we can close this. Anything on technology also? So about 80% of our country does not have access to any waste management system, solid or liquid because when we hear, think about cities but if you go to the, if you exclude the top 20 cities, the 21st onwards all the way to 125 crore people, they don't have waste management. So imagine the laced potato chips being sold in small villages. How do they dispose of the waste? Every time I go home, I find that they're lying everywhere and there is no organized way of even dealing with it. So I understand that this management of waste that of course the chemical waste management that we put into reverse and this is one aspect that can actually be treated. But why are we even generating so much waste? I think we have to be asking this fundamental question and I keep referring to this in my book as well, is that what is the need to generate so much waste that we have to even deal with management of it? We can very easily, I looked at our life and I mapped our life into several things and I realized that we can actually very well do away with a lot of waste that we don't even have to create. So our waste, amount of waste can go down just by simply transforming our life and incorporating more green processes. Now, for example, I showed this bottle and there are many things like that everywhere we go. I am personally generating one kilo of waste every day that's being very conscious. So let us target to generate half of what we do today in five years and another half of that in other five years by then you would not have any waste to your process. I'll just take 10 seconds on what Amitabh has said on waste itself. It's a concern all right, I am not disputing that. I'm not even saying this, not to see that it's consolation. This is the second public meeting where I'm offering this. Please Google it, it will not take you two minutes to find out this. 45 million tons, waste per annum, India generates. Ask what it is for China. The figure is sitting at 187 or 190 million tons, four times ours. Ask what it is in the United States. It's at 260 million tons today and they are a third of our population with three times our land mass. With that note, we'll just end the session. We can take questions offline later on in the evening. Thank you. Thank you very much. I'm gonna once again request to all our panel members to please remain on the stage. I'd like to invite Mr. Santosh Kumar from Supreme Industries to please come on the stage. I'm gonna request Mr. Santosh Kumar from Supreme Industries to please present a token of appreciation to all of our panel members. And can we have a round of applause to thank all of our panelists here for another very enriching session. I'm gonna request to all our panel members, sir, if you may please remain on the stage. Thank you very much.