 And then I moved out to the Bay Area right after I graduated with effectively like some bottles of liquid and was like, okay, I'm going to get made and tested out and I'm going to do it on a really small scale to truly understand like, you know, what's going to work, what are people going to respond well to and I think that sentiment came from a lot of advice I got from investors, from entrepreneurs that were, you know, all said, hey, if you're going to carve out a new space, a new category, like it's challenging and you need to figure out what works before you go and really, really deep. And so I launched the product in 2018 and drove it around in my Honda Fit to grocery stores and did the in-store demos and, you know, did the distribution and from that process learned the first product was horrible. This is Started to Storefront, the podcast where we inspire entrepreneurship through truth. Today's guest is Eliza Ganesh, founder of Sunwink. As is often the case in the health and wellness space, the founding of Sunwink came about as a result of a personal issue. Eliza was diagnosed with an autoimmune disease and sought a better way to fight the disease and lead a healthier life. She had to experiment a bit and incorporate feedback from her early customers, but she persevered and eventually found a recipe that succeeded. So then, armed with little more than some bottles of Sunwink and her Honda Fit, she made her mark in the Bay Area before growing Sunwink into a nationwide brand. So listen in as we cover everything from working in San Francisco through the pandemic and if she intends to keep the Sunwink HQ there long term, the value of knowing your worth as a female entrepreneur and how learning new TikTok dances fits into her own corporate wellness plan. Hang on, hang on. If you're not subscribed, can you go ahead and do that right now before we get on with the video? It helps us out tremendously. That's all we ask and we're back. Alright, welcome to the podcast. Everyone on today's show. We have Eliza, founder of Sunwink. Thanks so much for joining. Tell everyone a little bit about your company. Yeah, thanks for having me. It's great to be here. So I'm Eliza Ganesh. I'm the co-founder and CEO of Sunwink. Sunwink is a plant-powered wellness company. So we make awesome, delicious products that are made of superfoods and herbs. And we really believe that everyone should be eating, drinking, consuming herbs, superfoods in every meal occasion that they have. So we're here to make it easy. What made you want to start the company? Personally, we're investors in some wellness companies here in Los Angeles. And so we've heard, you know, the whole gamut of why they got started. Sometimes it's really personal. Sometimes it's they're solving a problem for a friend or a family member. What made you want to start Sunwink? Yeah, it was definitely personal for me. I was diagnosed with an autoimmune disease at my last semester of business school. You know, it was a skin condition and caught me pretty unaware. And it was really stressful. And I, you know, spent a lot of time going to kind of the doctor's office effectively. And it was really helpful for just, you know, acute treatment. But I felt like what I was going to have to do on the preventative side was going to be longer term. And I wasn't super pumped about using really intense things that were giving to me. So my siblings actually, an herbalist, and they were like, Hey, come to Vermont, like come eat my herbalist friend, you can do an herbal consultation. And I was blown away by not just the plants and the herbs themselves, which which have been really great allies for me in stress, but also just loved the whole shape and form of it, right, like you sit down for an hour and a half with someone and they say, How are you doing like holistically and they really listen and I just that energetically was was amazing. So just was really blown away by the whole space and wanted to to share it with people. You know, like I said I was at business school I was paying a lot of attention to the food space like I had just. I just interned at General Mills and I actually had signed the dotted line to go work at another really big consumer package goods company and I actually pulled the offer and was like I really think what is drawing me to this food and beverage and wellness space is very much along the lines of what And so that was that was the kickoff for that journey. That's great. So I started a company when I was in business school and the best thing about it was you're learning. This is how I viewed it. I'd love to get how you think about it. I learned like the in the box thinking right because in business school they don't necessarily teach you like hey go start a Herbal tonic brand right that's not what you learned you learn like this is your accounting this is your finance this and some strategy which I think the strategy classes are probably like the best strategy negotiations things like that. But the thing I struggled with was like okay I'm trying to start a company which is so far out of the box but in business in general you there is a box that every business operates by and so there's a language you have to learn. You have to know accounting you have to know some level of finance but living within that box and kind of getting you to be like a management consultant is hard while you're also trying to pursue a company right so kind of breaking all the rules at the same time you're bringing them. Yeah yeah totally you're going against everybody and in some way like you're kind of an oddball but people kind of admire you at the same time because you're like oh wow you're doing a product or something and you also have a witness test like you can test your product on a on your whole cohort which is really nice. Well I was on the weird side I think like well so so I say that because yes I totally agree like and I think that's why I had this assumption okay I want to get into food. I think food is this amazing changing space and it's changing for the better right so then you like you talked to your advisors at business school and they're like okay well great like go get your feet wet at General Mills and then you'll have all the experience you need to do whatever you want later on so like that's the normal quote unquote path I guess. Then I guess I went out of the box and was like okay I want to do this and you know started going to the store and buying tons of herbs and brewing them in a communal dorm kitchen and that's where people are like do you really know what you're doing. You know you're like pet over a pot on the stove like clogging the sink with cardamom pods you know a month before graduating business school and people are like is this really like what you want to do. So yeah I think there's there's definitely a little bit of both. And so people know to I mean getting a job at General Mills or one of these big consumer package good companies is actually quite amazing because you're literally while you're at these companies. I'm just saying this because a lot of people don't know this while you're at these companies you're literally developing new products and I give people the example of like tide pods right and so if you think about just something as simple as detergent and how many forms it's taken to the point of tide pods. It's like MBAs or people you know from business schools across the country and different different teams come together to pitch these products and if you're on one of those things one of those teams that let's say the idea was the tide pod. One you you see a whole journey right of an idea to market to and so that experience can be super invaluable to starting anything later. So you have I imagine enough like you're testing different recipes and you nail it at some point. And then what's the leap of faith. What do you are you done with business school when you say you know let's go make this a company. To be fair I really didn't nail it so this is kind of I think like starting a company is like it's this mix of. You have this this passion this desire to do it right it's it's I think part driven by the need and part like your own personal journey something's calling you to do that and then you have to have like a healthy dose of gravity right because you really have no clue what's about to come at you. And I say that jokingly so I was like okay this is the concept for Sunwing case going to be all about like plant powered wellness how do we make herbs easy accessible for people. And then I moved out to the Bay area right after I graduated with effectively like some bottles of liquid and was like okay I'm going to get made and and test it out and I'm going to do it. It's a really small scale to truly understand like, you know what's going to work what are people going to respond well to and I think that that sentiment came from a lot of advice I got from investors from entrepreneurs that were, you know all said hey if you're going to carve out a new, a new space a new category like it's challenging and you need to figure out what works before you go and really really deep. I moved out to the Bay area in 2017 and launched the product in 2018 and drove it around in my Honda fit to grocery stores and did the in store demos and you know did the distribution and from that process learn the first product was horrible. And I think like, it was just way too medicinal it was way too intense and so went back to the drawing board and reformulated we looked at the packaging right like the, the beautiful blue packaging that is selling spring today all came out of those learnings like it has to pop on shelf it has to be delicious as well as functional and the punchline of 2018 is the product you see today and that's what we launched the beginning of 2019 and that's when things really took off but it took a like a really hard quite literal like heavy lifting year of learning to get to that point. Yeah, I tell what I think this is like one thing I actually learned in business school was like you end up doing a lot of surveys and stuff and it's like whenever you have a product. Everybody knows you have by like you know what you like, but once you make something that you like, it's a completely different experience to go to these grocery stores and say hey taste this taste this and what the data you're going to collect is usually so different than what you know, like what personal preferences are even in terms of branding in terms of like what colors appeal to people and blah blah blah. Can you show everybody just I know you have a bottle of it there I'd love for people to see it because I think it's like super beautiful. This is the bottle. Yeah. And this I mean again like this came from a lot of learning over 2018 about like, hey the beverage space is super competitive the wellness space is super competitive. And, and like the brand that we're trying to build this one of accessibility and cheerfulness and inclusiveness and like how do we get the packaging to convey that and you know I didn't have a lot of funding in the beginning so like we didn't have a ton of money to spend on you know an agency this the idea for the blue I mean, sitting at bars, you know when I was probably supposed to be talking to my friends looking at spirits on the shelf and be like wow bottles are really beautiful how do I bring that alive, bring that to life. So, you know it was it was scrappy in the beginning. That's really fascinating, because in some way you have to educate the market as well right and so the way I think about when brands roll out packaging it's like you have to pick one either you're picking something that grabs them so if it's pretty, or if it looks appealing or if it just pops on the shelf, then you've hooked me. But then you there's another layer of it where, and this is really interesting because brands can literally decide how they decide to attack the market and so is it education first is it hooked them with the product first have them taste it and now the education sinks in, especially I think from probably where you are coming from maybe you were a little bit early to market let's say you're an early mover in this specific category right do you see it the same way. Yeah I think. And again this came from a lot of learning but but one of the things that we've really tried to make easy for people is like, you know the blues going to pull you in, and the names of the flavors which is arguably the only other thing you'll probably see, because you spend all one second two seconds right looking is going to be very easy for you to understand so like it's going to be detox ginger right you probably know what detox means and you probably have an experience with ginger. And then, hopefully you enjoy the product from a taste perspective for how it makes you feel. And then as you're you're digging in further, and especially for the consumer that really does understand the herbs you're turning it over and you're like wow. You know this and products is incredibly clean, and they use dandelion root, and they use birdock root like I wonder what those things are and if you want to go into that depth as a consumer like the information and I think the credibility is there from the perspective like we work with herbalistic craft each blend, right like there's a lot of information on our website about those herbs but we try not to throw it all at you at once because we recognize that one is probably not going to get your attention and to it can feel intimidating right so like start with the beautiful packaging, a simple name and great taste and then go from there. I had the grocery store so if I'm in like there's there's about an year one super close to where I live here in Los Angeles. If I'm at a year one where I imagine you guys are by the kombucha is right and so did that sort of set your price point or were you always like how did you think about at least getting to what what price point was going to work for the business. That's a great question. Yeah, I mean, I think there's there's definitely, especially if you go into retail and really anywhere like people are very everyone's buying beverages all the time right like we all have like 678 drinking consumption moments a day. And so we're all pretty aware of what our coffee costs and what our kombucha costs etc, so you have to be really mindful of price from that perspective. There's, there's a ceiling, but I think, as we think about Sunwink again we have we really care about accessibility and so we basically keep the price as low as we possibly can while still being in business and I think that you know we hear that like sometimes we have brought the product to certain places and they're like okay so this is probably like $10. You know and their surprise that that it's only you know 399 for one of the tonics. And that's good like I want you to feel like you're getting a really high quality beautiful product, but we want it to be accessible. And I imagine just when you were first rolling this out I imagine you're doing a bunch of taste tests at these grocery stores and then these these things are growing. What has COVID-19 been like since all that's shut down right there's no more tastings but it's still on the shelf and so we have all the other companies we've had on the podcast a lot of them just lean so heavily into social media education. And so it's like they said you know our supply chain is shot. People at the grocery store but we can't we can't connect with them and so they've just completely moved. Not not to say away from influencers but toward influencers that are that understand the makeup of the product that the natural ingredients let's say and so what is this time been like for you and the company. Yeah I mean COVID has thankfully for for our employees everyone's remained healthy and like that above all is is been great and I think we've been able to grow stronger culturally as a company as well. But I mean don't get me wrong in the beginning. It was terrifying like we had a lot of business and food service right your cafes your coffee shops and that disappeared overnight and for a brand in hyper growth that's really scary but I think and you do learn this in business school so it's interesting to see this play out I think it also made us stronger as a business because we double down on our own website or only commerce channel and we're able to grow in a way we couldn't have never expected I think that fast and it's opened up incredible opportunity for us so you know we think of ourselves as an omnichannel brand we have strong distribution and retail especially in the natural channel and then growth through our own website and a lot of big expansion plans for 2021 but I think you know in the first 90 days that COVID hit like Jordan my co-founder and I sat down and we we put together like a very in depth kind of action plan for how we were going to think about this, the business and like what needed to happen everything from calling like our supply chain, everyone in our supply chain to be able to make sure like that wasn't impacted to getting e-commerce up and going to saying like how do we support a positive team culture when we're not going to see each other and I think that that sentiment has continued. I know a lot of companies have like hired wellness coaches or mindfulness coaches, and they're doing like things remote as a team or just like one on one but it's totally up to the employees, just because of the disconnect. And obviously like we're all at home but if you have kids and a dog it's like it's quite it's like a zoo right you're like trying to work while there's like a zoo and madness around you. And so it's very difficult for are you guys did you guys have an office in San Francisco where you guys always remote or you remote now. Yeah so we had an office in San Francisco and you know the team has grown from six to 13 people in a group from six to 13 people in 2020. And so we did make hires during COVID where I've never met the people in person. And so yeah we really had to think about culture and like how do we set up organic touch points. So like we have kind of dorky but it works we have team meetings Monday Wednesday Friday that are purely just touch points for us to all come together and Mondays we do gratitudes where people just go around and say something they're grateful for and we do fabulous failures which is an optional thing but you can be like here's the one horribly wrong and on Wednesdays our VP of office is awesome leaves us in a meditation and then on Fridays we call them fun Fridays but it's like choose your own adventure we've done everything from like learn different tick tock dances to plate categories it's like really but it gets a laugh you know and it's a place where you know people can just can just hang out and I think that's been important. Yeah no those things are super important I love the creativity of all those things. That's so great. Have you thought about and I'm just saying I have a lot of friends that's there who have all like they've all moved and two camps right there's one camp that says I'm moving and I'll come back once my office is open again and then there's another camp just saying I'm moving and like some CEOs I know have moved their entire companies to to New York or just other to Florida as an example. Have you thought about any of that I know it's a hard decision but have like where is your mind that as as the San Francisco Exodus kind of reaps into the headlines. Yeah I mean I think we think of San Francisco as our home I think this city is beautiful and has so much to offer. So, you know, for the time being this will this will continue to be our home. One thing and the very cool thing that I think COVID has allowed is we've just been more open to remote hiring right and so that used to just be from like a side right you'd be like okay, we need sales reps in New York City for very obvious reasons but now it's opened up I think our ability to hire marketing and ops people around the country and one I think it makes us way more in touch with like our community as a whole and we meet really cool people that way so you know we just hired an awesome community manager who manages all of our social and she lives in Atlanta and probably will never move to the Bay Area and that's been a great push for us. That's awesome. Yeah we're kind of in the same boat it's a COVID it's this opportunity to where there's so much tremendous amazing talent on the market. And so if you can hire if you're in a position to hire you can get some like really amazing people all across the country. And obviously we're all learning how to work remote or some you know some of us probably have been doing it for a long time but it's a good opportunity to capture some amazing talent that's out there. Yeah and it's like another touch point where you just it pushes you to question things you thought had to be true right right like we, you know it's like another example we thought we wouldn't hire people remote or we thought we wouldn't do e e commerce in this capacity until like 2022 and like you just challenge your assumptions and you're better for it. We went through the company I was with we went through Y Combinator and there's this big emphasis of like creating culture right and so they don't want you hanging out at the offices they want you and your team of like usually at that point it's like two to four people sometimes more but it's a small team. And so like we're all living together and they place a big emphasis on culture and like building the culture and getting to like which naturally as you as you grow you're thinking like okay I'm gonna get to 20 employees everyone to your point can't be remote because how do I build culture if we're remote. And I never really agreed with it I was like this kind of becomes limiting at some point especially because it's not like an office is free right it's like these things are very expensive having people come in can be kind of tough. And so it just get it becomes hard and so I'm like I'm kind of happy all of this happened because in some way it's like we can all work remote and it's just we just need to do things a little bit differently to get there. Where are you guys at in terms of raising capital are you have are you raising did you already raise pre COVID or what does that look like from just a growth standpoint. Yeah, you know we don't disclose kind of the details of it but but you know we have raised funding. I think it's definitely something that you know you can learn as much about the strategy and business school but I think, you know, that what happens when you're when you're really out there is you learn at rapid rapid speed and it takes up way more time than I think you ever thought it was going to be. And I also think it's provided like incredible growth for myself and for my co founder and and look like unfortunately for solo female founded companies like, you know there's just not as much funding historically that's gone to those teams and so it's it's been exciting to I think be part of that change and, you know, to speak to other female entrepreneurs that are that are starting out and help provide some guidance to, you know share our story and hopefully help them up as as they're going through the same green same steps. It's so true. My wife also owns her own business and like we're you know we're in the process of maybe having children and so we're like, she's you know I think one thing a lot of women deal with is what happens when I went on pregnant and so I ended up talking to a founder this is about a year ago, and she was pregnant and so I and she was raising capital she's like Diego imagine being pregnant and raising capital like not fun right. I was like, I don't even I can't even begin to imagine what that's like, but I asked her like what is that like for you and and is it terrifying because you know not only are you raising capital now but you know you're going to take a leave or hopefully take some time off when when the babies delivered. And her whole thing was like, I'm just so happy I hired the right people, because that means I can leave and be totally okay and I just thought, that's the perfect answer like that's it like hire the right team. Yeah, and so you're just doing your check ins, you know while taking care of your baby but you have the right system in place. And I was just so happy that she came out with that too because I know that answer super personal to people. And it's not talked about enough we, you know, on our show we've, we've probably interviewed more female founders. Yeah, and as a male it's hard for me because it's like there are actually like my wife has a lot like I see it every day I see what what the you know the trouble spots are but it's like I think we just need to open up about some of these hardships a little bit more. So many. And I think it can feel nerve wracking right I like, I don't have kids. But you know there there is of course that question right like, will will that be held against me right is that what's not what's not said in the room like she just got married. What does that mean. Hope that wouldn't be true but yeah I mean I think it's more been on. We've definitely gotten more of the hey beverage is pretty male dominated. We've gotten comments like, I just don't know if you or your team are tough enough, which has been sort of like I popping like wow I can't believe I would say that. But you know I think like one of the things that I have learned through the process and and I always shared people is like having a strong group of advisors and mentors is invaluable. So that's thing one you know like you can really build like building out that support system is super helpful in the process and I think the other thing is like sticking to your guns and knowing your worth right now is to get your guns anymore. But like knowing your worth right like know know that you're worth the same valuation as like your male counterparts are getting at that that level that you're at and holding true to that that is really powerful and that's one of the things that I think has been a learning curve for me. There's a great tweet out there so there's this I think she's based in San Francisco too so she I forget her name she's a she's an author writer big big time in the startup space and also like those those coaching specifically for female founders and she goes here's all I do. Female says to me hey what should I charge I respond with double what you think the end and I just retweeted being like yes like this is exactly what I tell my wife you know it's the same thing and I. I'm like women devalue themselves right out of the gate and I just don't know why and I think it's because they're so nice like you're women really look at the holistic approach and so whenever they're giving something to a client. They're thinking about the client way more than men do and I'm saying this honestly like I don't men just think about like I'm gonna make this much money women think about I'm gonna make some but you know this client has and they just they just do an analysis that's. Very human and honest and sometimes it doesn't it doesn't work out in the capitalistic world all the way all the time. Yeah, and I think one of the other things that my co founder Jordan and I talk a lot about. You know I think bettering ourselves or this is something I've I've think I've gotten better with and I share this if I am ever talking to a new female entrepreneur is. You don't always have to answer the question. You know sometimes when you're like vendors potential investors like people want access to a lot of information and I think there's a sentiment that I grew up with. Do your homework and have the right answer and always have it ready and you know raise your hand and I think if it's information you don't want to give at that point because it's like you're in the negotiation right. You, you don't can say like I'm not comfortable giving that answer right now or like I'm happy to share that but I'm going to share it with you in a month or whatever that answer is and I think. Holding your ground knowing that that's valid and you don't have this responsibility to like do your work everybody else like you can be strong and hold your ground. That's a valuable lesson as well. That's a big tip. I know like what you're saying is actually a really big tip and I hope people really latch on to it because it's so true. I'm just thinking about my wife. So she owns her own construction company right and so she's already in like a male dominated world and for her she feels like she has to be so much better sharper and that naturally lends itself to you wanting or needing to have all the answers. Yeah, right when when to what you're saying is really powerful and like you don't have to and that's okay and I think that's. Or you may not want or you may not want to right like I think that's other thing right. Yeah, like you have you have agency of choice there. That's cool what your wife does. Yeah, yeah, no she's she's a badass. Let's talk about let's talk about your product a little bit more. What in terms of ingredients so I'd read a little bit about it all natural what does that mean specifically you know things are branded all natural but aren't always all natural. Let's talk a little bit about what you guys put in your product. Yeah all natural is a tough a tough one so I guess this you can see this but like this is our ingredient list right here and it's it's a list right it's not like that paragraph ingredient thing where you're like squinting your eyes and you know what in this and that in a nutshell is the philosophy right so like this flavor is lemon rose uplift it's sparkling water a little bit of maple syrup lemon juice to preserve it and salt and then it's the herbs and that's it. Why is that so different in beverage well most beverages even the quote unquote kind of all natural world they have citric acid to preserve it. And you know we've stayed away from even like plant based alternative sweeteners that are zero calorie like a stevia or a monk fruit we still don't use those. That was very feedback driven for us we got a lot of feedback from consumers saying they really didn't want those those fake sweeteners. So that on one level is I think the cleanness but I think the other thing that's really important for Sunway and for me personally is like I was personally inspired by the herbalist community and it's really important that that is a continued part of something story so we actually have like an equity advisor that's an herbalist that we talked to on every blend and we say you know how do you think about these herbs and the herbs we're using and how much we're using and we get really great feedback whether hey you know this herb is endangered and I really wouldn't use it in a product that's going to go mass or I wouldn't put these two herbs together or I wouldn't use this herb and something you would tell people like is cool to consume every day and these people the herbalist I think are often not brought into that narrative and it's really important they study this I think it's really important they're brought into the narrative and the other thing I'll say is each Sunway products also inspired by a person and their story and that's really like what the brand's all about so every flavor is inspired by a real human and then they pick an organization that they want 2% of our net sales to go to so it started really small like the turmeric flavor is my mother-in-law but now as we've gotten bigger than as we continue to put out new products they'll all be inspired by people that we think have a real powerful point of view and culture and we want to help to amplify that and I want to give them a place where they can give back to an organization they believe in. So those are like the layers it's like okay yes these are the ingredients and they're super clean but like there's much more I think depth to the stories that you might not get on the first sip but really really important I think to us as a brand. So as you grow at some point you have probably three flavors you go to market with but how do you evolve and so there's someone I spoke to here in LA that they're making herbal beer right and so they're just letting everything sit together for a little bit longer almost like a kombucha but it's like really beautiful yeah and same thing they have an herbalist on board and it's like very thoughtful but as you guys think about growing the company I'm sure this VC's asked this question all the time right it's like okay okay Eliza you have three great products sales look good retail locations look amazing but how are you guys going to build the next widget how do you view that growth is it different flavors is it different products what does that look like for you. Yeah I would say it's both I mean we view Sunwing as a plant powered wellness brand and we view it as a platform right so like it's it's going to be able to hold different product lines that have herbs and superfoods in them so they're not all going to be sparkling tonics we actually have some really exciting things that I can't disclose here but are on the horizon in 2021 that are there are other products that have herbs and superfoods and they come in different shades and sizes with with different ways to use them. So I think you know again our vision is that you're using these kinds of products and a lot of your meal occasions throughout the day and there's different ways to do that. And Caitlin mentioned to us you're releasing something next week. Yeah. Yeah. Is this is this the time you're telling us we release it after. Okay, then that's perfect so I can tell you. Yes so we're we're launching superfood powders, and they're so cool I'm so excited because I make these on my own. So I'll just use one flavor as an example we have a cacao clarity flavor and you can put it in your coffee you can mix it in like an amazing kind of like not milk warm not milk blend and it makes like a healthy hot chocolate you can pop it in smoothies. It's really a choose your own adventure you've even put it in brownie recipes. And, you know, we have a we have another one that's launching called called Barry calm which is near and dear to my heart. You know, again, this one is all about calmness in your body and for me that's a big thing I deal with a lot of stress so, you know, as Rishi and Ashwa ganda and lemon bomb, and like a beautiful blueberry hibiscus flavor and it's so good in like yogurt or a smoothie but like you can also just pop it in hot water. Again, super easy to use incredibly clean and and like a celebration of the superfoods and herbs. So I'm just envisioning this if I see at the store is it is it like a box of packets almost like tea bags that I'm buying or is it going to be individual. It's like a carton it's in a tin. Okay, not single serve you can like pop your spoon and a lot of spoonful and put it in whatever you want. Got it. That's super exciting. I know one of the hard parts of launching a product like this is like where does it go in the grocery store and can you share a little bit about where they're going to or where they've decided and I'm sure this is still being figured out maybe but where does it look like it'll be placed. Yeah, absolutely. So I mean this is of course why your own website is always a little easier because you eliminate the merchandising the merchandising question but yeah I mean there's Whole Foods as an example Whole Foods has what they call the whole body section right so you can buy anything from collagen to powdered greens to soap there right and and that's the section where something like this would live. Got it. Yeah awesome. And are there any new like just people listening tell everyone where they can find your product. I know I'm sure you're in a variety of outlets but where can they go ahead and and purchase Sunwink. Yeah, so obviously on our website and the powders will also be available on Amazon and then we have a pretty strong hold in kind of the natural grocery space. So Whole Foods natural grocers and we have a few really exciting retail launches coming this year which again I'm not allowed to disclose but they're coming so just keep checking our website for the for us. I always like asking this because it's a bit of a marketing play and it's a hard question but do you ever envision yourselves having like your own retail location so whether maybe it's like a small 500 square foot something on like a busy road that at least gets people and understanding of your brand maybe they're doing some tastings and it's kind of a way to introduce your product. Does this ever come up in discussion from a strategy perspective I know it like doesn't pencil and it's kind of hard to get the ROI it's really a marketing play but sometimes I think like when you have a cool brand it really can connect people to you know what they see in the grocery store in a totally different way. No I love that it's funny you bring that up some we just had an investor who was talking to us about that today. It's a great idea and I would say like it's not happening next month but never say never. But yeah I mean these these moments where you create physical spaces for people to come together. There's such great storytelling moments right so all of that. All those things I was talking about like highlighting the different people behind the the drinks highlighting the herbalist like those are places we really bring that to life. Yeah I can just envision it's like a big green space maybe there's herbs everywhere and then people can kind of connect to it in a different way that isn't so obvious I think. The herbs and plants are so like I mean they are they're healing just being around them right and it's so fun to experience them like I would love for people to come in and you could be like okay like this is a lemon bomb tincture like do you want to try it like see how it makes you feel like there is a huge experience and teaching moment that I think comes to life when you're physically together and like we all have had that experience of being around plants and having them be healing for us. I would love to see this on Union Street in San Francisco I can I can like see it you know around kind of around the equinox right there you know yeah yeah it's it's it makes a lot of sense. Well listen, tell everyone where they can find you where they can support outside of your website I know you guys have a beautiful Instagram just share a little bit about where people can can connect with the brand. I mean, we love to hear from consumers, I think, whether it's through our DMs through finance on our website through celebrating us and Whole Foods we always appreciate a good shout out to someone you see in the grocery store. They work hard to stock the shelves so you know they're you can you can obviously buy it that way but you know we love to hear you from you through through email Instagram all that good stuff so awesome. Well listen thanks so much for coming on the podcast and sharing your launch and a little bit about Sunwink so go check them out thank you guys so much. Awesome yeah thank you have a great rest of your day.