 You know, you go to start a show and you click the buttons Peers on you. I'm kind of sideways tonight, aren't I? Sounds about right in general Who's sideways? Who else is sideways with may hair? I need to Kai wanted to say good night to everyone Hi You want to just get on and say good night say hello and good night to people in the chat room You can say hello. Hi. There's no one to listen to because Justin went away. Wait. Justin. I don't I don't know He ran away. Yeah. Yes, so we're gonna talk about science. I've got the kiddo I have the kiddo tonight. So if I get distracted at all, it's because he's not going to sleep like he's supposed to be You're gonna try I know well, I'm talking about science We're gonna talk about and science is interesting science is very interesting. So I'm glad everyone's here tonight I need to send a message, but you Say good night to everyone, please and tell them Kai Tell everyone your favorite Science fact and then say good night No, never you talk, I know the button the light lights up. Yes. It's really cool. Yes Favorite science fact. I just wanted to say hi. You just wanted to say okay. You have a favorite science fact Why do you hurt me? Science fact. Do you have a favorite science fact? Interesting When you think of it speak into the mic here. Well, maybe an idea Well, people have an idea. Well, this is an idea of how I think we survived Mammals when the asteroid hit we didn't have dinosaurs didn't have enough oxygen They didn't eat they had to eat more so they were bigger so they need more oxygen and stuff like that and They also the plant eaters need plants and they had to eat more plants and the meat eaters needed to eat those Plant eaters for food and We were the ones who just stayed in hiding and were eating in a secret and They didn't even know and they basically died off Most of them some of them some of them which one survived Um, I don't know which ones but they turned into birds. There we go the chicken the dinosaur we eat As well as well. It's a crow. We I don't eat crows Who eats crows? No, okay. Say good night. I love you. Good night. Go lie down Oh, read your book you have 10 minutes and then they start dying off and then we are over Okay, wrap yourself up in that blanket time for bed Science story time is starting soon here everyone Gosh darn it. I'm crooked tonight. I'm off kilter. I'm not centered is this This is telling of my life. Isn't it? I'm the reason I am So slow today as I am waiting for Justin to get back. I started the show And I'm waiting for Justin. So let's hoot sweet. I'm going to sweet hoot a little message to everyone to say Join twist for some surfing of the waves Of science. There we go. You're back good We are live now HTTPS colon slash slash twis.org Share that omg For me Everyone give it a little share. Let's give it a little bump and let's start the show in three two This is Twists this week in science episode number 704 recorded on wednesday january 16th 2019 Let's go science surfing Hey, everyone. I'm dr. Kiki and tonight we are going to fill your heads with tantalizing teeth hagfish slime splosions and abounding hounds but first Disclaimer disclaimer disclaimer Amazed by it or not the scientific world never ceases asleep at the wheel Is no problem at all. The scientific world is keeping a good grip Too busy to bother with the details The scientific world already has them neatly laid out for you. Don't have time to get sick. The world is of sciences on it Mouths when they cough it washes their hands It even wipes their bottoms and in case you were wondering the scientific world wants you to know Wherever you are whenever you are whatever you are doing The scientific world has you covered has your back front and side to side The scientific world is looking out not just for you But your children and your children's children and your children's children's children and all of your ancestors too The scientific world never sleeps never takes a day off not even on its own birthday which you missed again this year But it's okay Because the scientific world never complains never holds a grudge never needs winding ironing charging We're hard to find your replacement part from a supplier with a confounding website and above all the scientific world is listening Do this weekend science Coming up next New discoveries that happen every day of the week. There's only one place to go to find the knowledge I seek I want to know what's happening What's happening What's happening this weekend science What's happening What's happening What's happening this weekend science Good You're cheeky and Blair wait, where's Blair? Ah, yeah, no Blair tonight. She's on vacation, but Good science to you Justin. Thank you everyone else out there. Welcome to another episode of this weekend science We are back again To talk about science this week we're surfing those waves of science. Let's just get in there find a nice plane And work it let's take these science stories for a ride I have stories about what did I bring ms multiple sclerosis therapies? Fat cancer and one shell of a story one hell of a story Seems like an intentional pun type thing you've mixed in there. I've got the I've got a mystery Species in the human genome and it's not the aliens No, I've got some tantalizing teeth apex predator whales hair hunting hounds history And why global warming might be good for surfing? Global warming and surfing, huh? All right. Well, we'll find out more about all these stories In just a few minutes as we jump into the show. I would like to remind everyone that yes indeed You can subscribe to twist if you have not done it already You can go to twist org to find information and links You can also find us all places good podcasts are found by looking for this week in science places like google play apple Stitcher spreeker spotify pandora all of these places You can find the twist But now it's time for the science. So let's talk about Let's let's talk about things that might work better than drugs Uh to what end? See, this is why you're a co-host you ask the smart questions. There we go. It's good to ask questions Don't just take statements Comment you've made there I know lack of specificity But i'm gonna drive it home right now multiple sclerosis is a disease with no cure And at this point in time people take a multitude of different diseases for the inflammation for the They take a multitude of diseases Drugs multiple. Thank you very much for catching multitude of different drugs as treatments That get rid of the symptoms, but there's really no cure for it. However There have been a few studies suggesting that a Kind of treatment known as hematopoietic stem cell transplantation May knock it out And get rid of it. Wait, what? Yes And it this hasn't been broadly used but it appears to be in use increasingly in clinics around the world as evidence drips in from clinical studies and Now new results from a randomized clinical trial suggest that in some patients in a certain percentage of patients This hsct hematopoietic stem cell transplantation Can uh be more effective than some than than the currently approved multiple sclerosis drugs that people are taking There'd never before been a side-by-side comparison And so in the study they took a sample of patients Split it in half Half of the patients were the control group and stayed on the drugs that they were taking to control their symptoms The other half of the group Had chemotherapy destroy their immune systems and then had their own stem cells blood stem cells taken from the bone marrow Re-injected into their their blood system to kind of ramp up The repair of their immune system. So the chemotherapy destroyed the immune system Multiple sclerosis is an autoimmune disease in which the body attacks itself the immune system recognizes your own cells the the Oligodendrocytes these cells that produce the myelin sheaths around your nerves It recognizes them as foreign as opposed to being self And so the immune system attacks these cells destroying the myelin sheath and in doing so Destroying the nervous system's ability to conduct information and eventually the nerve cells cells die if they are damaged Too much because those oligodendrocytes also help support the metabolism of those nerve cells. So chemotherapy destroyed the immune system But then the patients got blood stem cells moana poetic stem cells injected back into their systems And then they were left to go with no other drugs taken. So half the group taken drugs the other half had this immune intervention over the course of A year a year later. They evaluated how far the disease had progressed According to a zero to to ten scale of disability That includes strength coordination and speech About a quarter of the drug treatment group had at least one point worsening They they worsened they may be better than without the drug but still not working Exactly and those in the transplant group Only two percent Had any worsening in their score So they looked at MRI scans of the brain as well because in the brain of of ms patients You can see brain their lesions plaques scars in the brain where the damage has occurred And so they used MRIs to look at the soft tissue and see where damage was and they found a decrease in These brain lesions in the transplant group A decrease in lesions where you're talking about repair Repair. Yes And five years after the treatment 15 percent of the people only in the transplant group had a relapse Versus 85 percent of the drug group so Something's going on with this immune system That that said the study is also five years old So new drugs have come on to the scene that were not available at the beginning of The trial suggesting that maybe current drugs could have similar effects to this transplantation therapy because The question is what do you want to go through and who exactly will go through chemotherapy and And a harvesting of your hematopoietic stem cells and then a reinjection of them back into your body. There's plenty of room for things to go wrong in such an invasive procedure So they are the researchers who worked on this are not suggesting that all ms patients are candidates for this therapy and they Really think they're again should be more research done, but That this should only be considered for people with relapsing remitting Multiple sclerosis with frequent relapses So if you have multiple relapses within the course of a year, then you're you're not doing well your quality of life is is not great and This is potentially something that could help you and that estimate is about 15 to 20 percent of people with ms Are possible candidates and and that's must also be because of the early stage of this. I mean, I mean With the effectiveness that they're they're talking about and there's been reported or makes it sound like This is something that you might want to case. I mean mostly because I they described it as no decrease in the 1 to 10 scale And the decrease in the lesions is significant because that's indicating repair But they didn't show or at least you didn't speak upon Anybody moving up the scale? Yeah, which means that you maybe want to do this sooner rather than later. However I don't know. Maybe if it's just the capacity that they have to provide the treatment at this point Maybe maybe there's side effects that we're not talking about but this is still an incredible uh Gain in a territory where we have not seen much Uh progress in a long time Yeah, and the uh, the the real thing here is how interesting it is that different different uh paradigms of research have led to these insights. So Researchers understanding that chemotherapy knocks out the immune system You know any cells that are dividing which would be the immune system stem cells as well Which is why it's also effective in at least halting or slowing ms or cancer. Yeah It's kind of like a reset and uh, this kind of therapy has seen benefits in other autoimmune diseases rheumatoid arthritis lupus um, and and various others Uh, but the safety is still an issue in this study. There were no deaths There were not serious side effects that were reported aside from those that are normally reported with chemotherapy and Related infusions But there have been deaths related to chemotherapy in these other studies and yeah So it's a very big question For people to look at their quality of life and decide if this is something that is uh Something they would be interested in talk with their doctors about it and apparently This is uh the use of this procedure is growing especially in europe Because it's chemotherapy is approved as a medical treatment. So it's not You know, it's not a difficult thing for for centers to be approved to do um And then there is another ms study in a different direction that looks at the oligodendrocytes and And you you mentioned kind of halting it at an earlier stage of the disease And one of the things that researchers are looking at is where the question of where Is the immune system really attacking first and how do we block that? And I mentioned that the oligodendrocytes those cells that Wrap around the nerves and produce the myelin sheath Those are the thing those are the cells that get attacked by the immune system they get destroyed and that That destroys the nervous system's ability to send electric signals Down these action potentials down the lengths of the nerves And so if we can protect the oligodendrocytes Then maybe you can keep the damage from occurring long term. And so there is a promising drug called a guana bends You don't understand drug naming. Um, it's marketed as y-tensin and it's used to treat hypertension. It is already uh FDA approved And it in it seems to enhance The ability of oligodendrocytes to protect themselves and to it decreases the loss of my myelin But you know the the side effects you gotta read the fine print and guana bends side effects Can cause drowsiness weakness headache dry mouth and even coma so Yeah, researchers are like, well, let's look a little bit further along this guana bends line They found a derivative of guana bends that they call sefin 1 sephine 1 and sefin 1 stands for selective inhibitor of a holo phosphatase and This compound seems to do Fundamentally what guana bends was doing protecting oligodendrocytes by boosting What's called the integrated stress response that protects cells from inflammatory inflammatory damage And it has fewer side effects So fewer side effects and they gave it to mice That had a mouse version of multiple sclerosis And there didn't seem to any be any negative Negative effects to the mice and there was a lessening of the demyelin is demyelination and More oligodendrocytes were protected and so The ms and these mice did not progress as quickly and so this is What researchers are potentially going to start looking at as maybe adding it to Interferon which is a multiple sclerosis drug that's used to fight inflammation And so maybe if they mix these things together, maybe we'll see some really good effects So down the road we'll see where it goes, but there is some amazing progress being made no cure yet still treating the symptoms For the most for the large part, but I don't know that whole immune system reset seems like For some people it could be a cure of sorts We'll see where it goes What do you have? Oh, yeah, also if it's a cascade event Where the Failure here leads to a failure there which prevents this from having a preference Even even being able to prevent the symptom as as as we feel as though that's not actually curing Could possibly prevent a lot of the other symptoms from ever showing up if they are Related Yeah, and I think the whole thing is Is Is about as close to cure as we really ever get when it comes to cures is halting all the rest of the symptoms that happen After a certain point of discovery Yeah, and I really do think with these autoimmune diseases It's kind of that cascade effect where Inflammation gets started and the body reacts to the wrong thing and then is sensitized to it And it just keeps attacking the wrong thing and it gets worse and worse and worse And because there's there's no there's at a certain point There's no backing up from it after a certain threshold So if you can stop that from occurring It'd be amazing It will to be amazing This is this week in science. Justin you have some science I Do okay, so there is something lurking in the genomic history Of some humans something ancient and mysterious Is in our DNA That and no, it's not aliens. Yes, there are neanderthals and denies events in a lot of humans and if you dial it back further we find more far flung Hominin intermingling that thick place Some current humans Modern humans as they often like to be called have descendants That are of an unknown species according to a new study sort of This is quotey voice. This is I can't say his first name But his last name is Bertrand Petit Bertrand Petit There's a principal principal investigator at the Institute of Evolutionary Biology Says about 80,000 years ago the so-called out of Africa occurred when part of the human population Which already consisted of modern humans abandoned the african continent And migrated to other continents giving rise to all the current populations Which except for those who I guess didn't leave Quoty voice somewhere. We know that from that time onwards modern humans crossbred with neanderthals in all the continents Which actually isn't quite true. I mean the People of all the other continents did at some point interread with neanderthals But they didn't necessarily interbreed with them on on all the continents. Yeah, yeah I'm just clarifying The americas there's no wording Interbreeding on to that continent, but the peoples who did populate the americas Work did at some point interbreed with I think I said that right okay, so uh and also, uh Except for african and with the denisa vents in oceania and probably southeast asian I think he's leaving out some uh Siberian contacts there, too Although the evidence of crossbreeding with a third extinct species Has not been confirmed with any certainty It however This is no longer quotey place. It had however been predicted uh to exclusively mysterious fragments in our dna that we just kind of don't know how Where why they're there what they came from Uh, but now thanks to deep learning algorithms and statistical methods dna computational analysis suggests that the extinct species was a hybrid of neanderthals and denisa vents And that the hybrid Did a little mingling with the current asiatic population Of current or they might be called they might call them so it's modern humans in large parts of asia so Okay, so last year we had uh the denisa cave Discovery site was they found an offspring That had a neanderthal mother and a denisa been father this fighting Think that the uh, the new finding find sort of illustrates that the old finding may not have been an isolated case but Rather it might have just sort of been how Healthy hominin hookups were going on through a good part of asia for a really long time Uh, the study is published in nature communications One of the ways to distinguish between two species normally is That if they cross breed they don't produce fertile descendants um, but this hit so the the the story that we have of current human dna is sort of blurring that limit quite a bit because We're finding lots of fragments of what we would consider to be other species Uh, neanderthals denisa vins Uh, they coexisted as recently as 40 000 years ago with us in garagia And we've seen lots of intermingling there Uh more this this deep learning technique is sort of an interesting thing and this is from oscar lau who is A researcher at the center of genomic regulation and a deep learning expert He says uh, quotey voice deep learning is an algorithm that imitates the way in which the nervous system of mammals work with different artificial neurons that specialize to learn to detect And data patterns that are important for performing a given task We have used this property to get the algorithm to learn to predict human demographics using genomes obtained through hundreds of thousands of simulations Whenever we run a simulation, we're traveling along a possible path in the history of humankind Of all simulations deep learning allows us to observe what makes the ancestral puzzle fit together and then uh Is so there's sort of There's sort of a question here though when it comes to the deep learning because it's also is a trained system of uh computer learning and The fact that it spit out the idea that there was a hybrid of neanderthal and denisovan Wasn't a way only choosing from that which it had to choose from To come up with that answer Like that's sort of all it The deep learning doesn't necessarily get to speculate right a whole lot about Other information that it hasn't been fed at some point It's it's deep learning. It's not deep thinking. All right, which is a deep contemplation right and as uh, uh, my yuk, uh Mayuk Mando who's also an investigator from the university of tartu on this subject He says our current theory coincides with the hybrid specimen Discovered recently in denisova although As yet we cannot rule out other possibilities. So despite all the deep learning of the computer Uh, they are still holding out the fact that it might not be The end all be all answer especially since If there is a third unknown hominid hominin floating about in asia at the at the time of this history, um It would likely have also interbred with the end of thousand denisovans So then what are we even talking about then there's got a hybrid with a three-way hybrid or is it mostly this other? Like so there may be a missing uh Human ish thing That we still get to find So something that we don't have the fossils for something that we have not found yet But there's genetic evidence There are patterns genetic evidence which could be based on this Just a hybrid a perhaps a prolonged hybridization uh Sort of population of neanderthal and denisovan Or still something else Interesting Still something else. Well, even if it is a prolonged hybridization, you know, it's like that Venn diagram of two populations overlapping and Wow, it worked out, you know, like you said I mean, we've talked about it before on the show hybrids very often are sterile and they can't reproduce but this was a reproductively capable hybrid and potentially hybrid population And even though we've we've also sort of pointed to a few times that neanderthal dna is sort of linked to fertility issues in in the current humans That also may have been a very successful strategy for them because they They had smaller population groups that they lived in and they moved in and they traveled in uh, and so what what we think of is our in our um Overpopulating world that we live in now as an advantage to be able to have a baby whenever you want to Uh could have been a severe disadvantage to neanderthal populations who quite possibly enjoyed sex a lot and but yet did not want to have Uh a lot of children to travel with Right, so it might you know, it could but what is it what is considered a problem now? May have been very beneficial for a species of human that survived for 400 000 years An environment that we've just ventured out into 400 000 years. Yeah, I mean there's so many So much time in there for things. Yeah, that's that's an interesting perspective to bring up there. Thanks So so uh and now onto the next story a relative of modern humans that we lived at least 104 000 years ago in northern china Shows evidence of dental growth and development very similar to that of current humans international team of scientists performed the first systematic assessment of dental growth and development and an east asian archaic human or hominid fossil Uh that is known as the su ya yao juvenile The fossil is of a six and a half year old who lived between 104 000 companies far back as 248 ish thousand years ago Uh, it was found at that site. The researchers were surprised to find that in most ways The child's dental development was very similar to what you would find in a current human child today says uh Debbie Guattali Steinberg co-authored the study professor of anthropology at the Ohio State University Juvenile is the oldest fossil found in east asia that has dental development comparable to modern current humans It may suggest that these archaic humans had a slow life history Like modern humans with a prolonged period of childhood dependency So they were able to have baby teeth for a really long time because they were Eating stuff that their parents gave them Yeah, so the study was published in the journal science advances Just oh just today it looks like uh teeth provide some of the best data anthropologists have About the growth and development of our ancient ancestors because growth lines and teeth retain a record Of that dental development sort of like tree rings You can tell if it was a dry or a wet year, but but there are pulses or patterns or frequencies of growth that are that are common amongst all humans Or or of current amongst all current humans But we're disparate in some of the archaic humans So compared to our primate cousins modern humans including their teeth take a long time to form and develop Anthropologists believe this characteristic is associated with humans longer periods of childhood dependency. How long juveniles lie on the support of your parental caregiver So this is and but it's not just that this Okay, so the So this is all morphology, and I'm really upset like I don't know why there isn't DNA. I mean teeth. We think of is Yeah, should be a good source Uh, it's actually I guess like the cheek and ear bone Regents are much higher Uh collection successes for for DNA from ancient fossil humans common Uh, teeth aren't always the best But you would think if they've got teeth and they're looking at these lines they must have but again, this is the initial look Maybe we're gonna get uh more although DNA doesn't take that long to process anymore. They should Yeah, maybe there was contamination. Maybe there were issues with the DNA collection Maybe they haven't done that analysis yet. I mean, this is science advances Maybe it's science. This is science advances So maybe they didn't they just wanted to get this part of the study out and then do the rest later Yeah, yeah, and the analysis could take a little bit. Okay. So they say they don't know exactly where this This uh east asian hominids fits in human Like items to make current human evolution with the sendos. It's it's very interesting has some affinities archaic, uh that to denisa vins and Some affinities to neanderthals Along with some more modern futures features Uh, they're saying they they think it's they're calling it a strange mosaic Which based on the story that we just did This could be the thing that they were describing, right This could be an example of that mystery human population that has both neanderthal And denisa vinn and some other characteristics that are very similar to the modern human So using growth lines of teeth researchers estimated, uh, the age at six and a half, uh, let's see Where was the other part? So part of the okay, so there it is the juvenile had a 10 day rhythm Okay, which is this is having to do with um The the the growth lines putting down or late being laid down about every eight days in a modern human This juvenile had a 10 day rhythm, which you don't see in early hominids. I think they're like, uh, like a seven Although the the rate at which the roots of the teeth grew were much more, uh similar to The juvenile showed relatively fast growth compared to the slower growth of modern humans, which would make it more like The archaic neanderthal denisa vinn where they sort of the childhood period is Is shortened and they they grow up a little bit quicker Yeah, so so they have okay, so we have now, uh, thanks to some deep learning deep learning computational dna analysis a mystery missing third archaic human and We have at the same time a mystery archaic not quite fitting into neanderthal denisa vinn Uh archaic human being discovered through their teeth. Where's the dna? Come on Yeah, so they yeah, I hope they can get that. I know uh Growly bear in the chat room is bringing up that half life of dna is 521 years But we do know that dna gets trapped and preserved in teeth and can last several hundred thousand and in perfect conditions dna could hypothetically last 6.8 million years That's in perfect condition. So The likelihood of finding dna that old is very slim But we're getting neanderthal dna. We're getting denisa vinn dna. We're getting old hominid dna So a hundred or so thousand years and it's pushing it But it there's every possibility that dna could be there And and and there's a lot by the way, there there's a lot of dna that makes up a people Uh, and you don't need the whole thing you can get a long way with just a few fragments so They've been able to to do uh denisa vinn neanderthal dna recoveries from soil in caves where they have they have previously found fossils so so if nothing else this Is going to be a place of intense interest going forward to find more examples to do some more literal digging and academic digging Scientific digging to see what's uh, yeah, what this is all about So much digging oh and as of 2016 the oldest human genome was sequenced It was extracted from 430,000 year old samples of fossilized tooth and thigh bones This stuff would only be about a quarter the age of that so very possible Yeah, but don't leave it out on the kitchen counter down now. No, but how fascinating Archaic humans let's identify them. Where do they fit? You know, it's like this is like the human Scientist like it's like I need to be a librarian and put the book Where the book goes in the right order on the shelf I need to put the archaic human in the family tree know where it fits And tell their story and just tell their story To tell this story of the humans tell their story of where they were when they were You know, that's what a lot of this sort of comes down to at least in the public interest aspect is that There's a lot of stories untold about the history of humans. We want to know them We want to hear all those stories Yes, we do and I've got some Fun stories not about humans but about animals because it's time for blairs. Oh blairs not here More kiki it's like I want to be like cowbell the people are always like more kiki. That's what we want More kiki. That's right Okay, so this is something that everybody has been wondering. I know you've been wondering it too How do hagfish produce all that slime? When hagfish are attacked By sharks by fish or other predators that want to eat them they They they put out this slime and it ends up in the shark's mouth or the predator's mouth and It it it starts out in small bits and it just Expands in a slime explosion Choking was choking the predator Making the predator want to run away so it can breathe again and get away from the slime And so researchers have been kind of you know putting hagfish slime under the microscope to learn More about it and over the years they have determined that The hagfish slime is wrapped up like skeins of yarn And it's like a bunch of little tiny yarn balls that are ejected from The hagfish and then those yarn balls untangle Very quickly very very quickly and so the The question is how does this gel go from being these microscopic strands of thread to being unspooled and In ending up at being much much larger than they started out So they've been looking at the unraveling and according to researchers from The university of wisconsin madison who just published a paper at the journal of the royal society interface on hagfish slime They they have said that the hagfish Produces these skeins in less than half a second But in most experiments it took hours of soaking The threads up in water to loosen them up in experiments to get them to expand the way that they do for the hagfish and so The researchers found that they when they stirred the water It happened faster and the stirring was the thing And So they started looking at the math to find out what forces of turbulent water fluid dynamics would lead to the unspooling or whether it was kind of more of a chemical reaction that leads the skeins to pop uh and a mechanical engineering professor and his graduate student shodari Started looking at these skeins under microscopes and watching the process Take place And in the process it really does if you there's a there are videos available of this and there will be it will link to this link to this on our website, but the The skeins of hagfish slime really are like little balls of yarn, but microscopic Little tiny things that when they're tugged on the strings Come apart and those strings grab onto water and soak up the water and create the Slimy slime that the hagfish Used to protect itself. So how did they go from the water to being able to To being able to get it To work better in experiments. Well They found saltwater was part of the equation as well And they created a model that hinges on an idea of a small piece that's initially dangling out And then a piece that's being pulled away Kind of like a roll of tape and to start pulling tape from a new roll You may have to hunt for the end and pick it loose with your fingernail But if there's already a free end it's easy to catch it with something And get it going and so they came up with a Ratio that they refer to as the peeling number That allows more thread to be freed up and the researchers say It's unlikely to happen if the whole thing is moving freely in water The conclusion of the model we've created is we think the mechanism relies on the threads getting caught on something else Other threads all the surfaces on the inside of a predator's mouth Pretty much anything and from there It can be explosive And I've got another video. I've got a video of a predator Going after a a hagfish researchers Researchers set up a situation where a hagfish would have to defend itself Oh researchers They created a device that held on to food that a hagfish would be attracted to and that other Species like sharks might be attracted to and then just kind of recorded it, you know to see what would happen What happens when the shark attacks the hagfish? Well, oh look, so we've got this video Underwater little shark is going. Hey, look at that hagfish. It's waving around. It looks yummy And then oh, I don't like that and it has to swim away Nope, gotta go out full of slime. It just got a mouth full of slime. Just got a mouth full of slime It's not good. I want that There you go bloop and mouth full of slime gotta get rid of that Not just but this this slime is protective and now we know That there are mechanisms at play like shaking out a tangled necklace Shaking out a skein of tangled yarn That the hagfish slime starts off as little tiny balls of thread That grab on to the seawater when they are Shaken when they interact with the water dynamics when they interact with the inside of the predator's mouth and They expand Yeah, uh, there's a uh, there's this story on gizmodo About an accident between a truck that was apparently Yes, this is a somehow filled with 7500 pounds of live hagfish taking them to destination Unknown, I don't know where that truck was heading maybe to this uh research facility and it got into an accident and it lost the load and there's a picture of A vehicle that it collided with apparently That got hit by not just the hagfish that were flung from the vehicle But it is covered in slime as is the whole highway It's It's a lot of slime. It's a very slimy situation. Can you imagine having to clean up? The slime created from a crash of 185,000 gallons of hagfish It's Pretty intense substantial Yes hagfish slime now you might under you might wonder why are mechanical engineers really interested in this? Well, the researchers say this model of entangled threads may help us he help us see how that network Determines the macroscopic properties of a lot of different interesting materials and they'd love to work on this network of threads Then this could lead to uh advances in industrial and medical applications Yeah, look, all right. Don't don't worry about people Don't worry about the reason that scientists are interested in things because for the most part They don't know They don't know what the application is going to be the application much later somebody discovered a A extremo file living in a hot acid bath in yosemite And thought this is cool and then the later on somebody like discovered that that it was discovered and realized that it was perfect For the thing that they needed and that's how we are able to manipulate dna through an enzyme produced by a microbe and in this hot acid Bath and like you don't have to know What the end result of learning about hagfish slime is If science has taught us anything it's that somebody has a need for an application that you haven't even dreamt could possibly exist yet And once they have that information they can apply it and do amazing things And that is a perfect segue into my next story About hermit crabs. Oh, it is one shell of a story Let me tell you Shouldn't be as funny as it is to me, but if he's making me laugh, it's very funny All right, and speaking of scientists looking into things that people hadn't really considered before and turning it into a whole new question and a whole new discovery well A researcher named mark ladry. He's a biologist at dartmouth college Has public published a paper in the royal society open science journal And his study came from his work looking at hermit crabs Hermit crabs. We know hermit crabs. What do you know about hermit crabs? Justin? Ah, they they're cute. They walk sideways. They inhabit uh beachy type coastal regions Um, what about their shells anything about their shells? Uh, can they switch shells? Can they change? Yeah, and very often shells are stolen from each other males go around Wiping shells from each other and one of the periods of time that they are most vulnerable to Shell theft the theft of the home right off their backs It's actually referred to in the hermit crab community as shell jacking. That's right is during procreation During the act of reproduction of a female No, that's not good timing Is consorting with a female he has at his most vulnerable and that is Doesn't care that much about the shell jacking at that point. So yeah, go ahead take it. Okay. Just get out of here Just take it and go. Yeah Give me a look And so mark Dr. Ladra understanding this about hermit crabs. He's looking at these museums. He was also Really impressed by the diversity of penis-like structures in hermit crabs. They're called sexual tubes And they are a diversity of sizes He started putting it together. He's looking at this one species of hermit crab That's called Sonobada compressus and sonobada compressus This terrestrial they remodel their shells. So they actually when they get they have their shells and then they They etch out the inside carve out the inner surface Of their homes their shells To make a larger room so that they can grow into it and they Won't dry out. It makes it a very come a much comfier place to live Then when they first start out so they spend time on these shells they work at them and they're an effort he noticed that these sonobada often steal them from each other and Also that this particular species of compressus That their sexual tubes are gigantic relative to the body size And so he said, huh, I wonder if I look at other hermit crabs in which shell stealing takes place I'll also see large sexual tubes versus species that don't have Shell stealing take place. I bet they'll have small sexual tubes. And so he went into museum collections He looked at body size and sexual tube length in 328 preserved hermit crab specimens From nine different species From the smithsonian institution in the harvard museum of comparative zoology. He Calculated penis size to body ratio For all of these species and determined That see sonobada compressus with the largest penis to body ratio also does the most remodeling of the inside of It's of its shell and has the most stealing take place and the smaller or smallest Penis to body size ratio Has the least level of shell renovation and the the small, you know least theft as well Yeah So, uh, he looked also he's another looking at the big coconut crab burgess latro and the coconut crab They do not Steal shells from each other These are crabs that they have their own shells and they give them up when they're a juvenile and then they calcify themselves For strength and they don't go looking for another shell. They'd self calcify And they have a teeny tiny They have a teeny tiny penis Giant coconut crabs little tiny penis. And so he's saying that this is support for his hypothesis those crabs that do not have to worry about shell jacking Do not have to have a large penis to hold on to those shells That's wild In that the penis well important for reproduction is also very important For holding on to their homes well Hey, so it's an it's an interesting study. Yes. Well very interesting. There's uh, you know This is in crabs. We don't know if this is applicable across the animal kingdom Oh, no, I think that but Yeah, asbestos as most of the animal kingdom doesn't have shells um And they don't have to hold on to their shells with their penises. Yes. Yeah, it's very like Because then it's like a there's like a choice you have to make is a hermit crab, which I never realized the hermit crabs would have to make I can either um remodel to be very comfortable in this space Or I can remodel to be very secure to this space Um, but less comfortable. It seems like that whole sort of liberty versus safety thing that we as a society are always At some point it's a trade-off. It's always a trade-off um And it should be possible to have both but yes, if uh Oh my god, give me liberty or give me a shell But again, I think I think I now believe that the reason that uh hermit crabs Steal shells during copulation is just because they're going to get less resistance from the other hermit crab Have because they're otherwise prior one is not the shell. Yep Yep Hey, uh kiki. I think we did it. I think we got to the end of another First half of an episode of this weekend science. I do suggest we do a second half uh After this first half Yeah, let's do that. I've got more stories Oh, there's plenty out there. Yeah, okay. We've got stories Everyone stay tuned for more this weekend science. We'll be back in just a few moments Things Hey everybody, thank you for listening to this weekend science It's so great to have you in our audience and be able to share all this fun science with you all these discoveries Some of them funny. Some of them not so funny, but all of them interesting, right? Conversation starters. I hope that's what we're doing for you. Now if you need another conversation starter I believe as of yesterday there were only 19 Twist Blair's animal corner calendars left So if you want a calendar and you have not gotten one Get one now go to twist.org To get yourself a calendar. 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We appreciate your subscription We really want to grow our audience size and continue growing and you're a major part of that you are Our listener you are our community if you believe in us help convince other people to believe in us too We really couldn't do what we're doing without you We thank you for your support. Thank you for all of it This is patients are the only things I need Put on a pair of goggles and go look at all the things I couldn't see The answers lie somewhere within this scatter plot First some should work correct Please prove the rest It's hot The methods are hypothesis and patients are the only things I need Put on a pair of goggles and go look at all the things I couldn't see And we're back with some more of this weekend science people are you ready? Yes, we are we are back and it is time now for that Wonderful part of the show that I like to call this weekend. What has science done for me? This week's letter comes from damien broadbeck who sent us a note over on our facebook page He writes in saying listening to podcast 690 convinced me to stop using plastic With the new and expanding research on the effects plastic has on wildlife I believe that each person even making a small slow step to eliminate plastic usage could benefit the world I've also convinced my family and we are trying to spread the word to family and friends To slowly but surely limit our uses of plastic throughout our daily life This is how science has benefited me lately Nice me and I think that's so awesome Then he I love that we influenced that in that decision in some way So that's really neat. Thank you for letting us know that as well and the fact that you are You know talking with other people about it too. That's great And then he goes on and he says now I have a question that I've been trying to figure out and I would like a second opinion on it Neil deGrasse Tyson's podcast with Joe Rogan He explains that it is difficult to view some quantum particles He explains that when you can't see something it could be anywhere But when you turn on the light you can view it which makes sense to me He later says that when scientists try to view some subatomic particles that photons photons themselves Move the particle meaning that it can't be viewed I was thinking of ways to try and figure out how to do this So my question to you Justin and Blair is could we use Acoustic levitation to suspend subatomic particles in place to view them Now I know you may not know the exact answer to this question But I would like to hear how you brainiacs would go about solving this problem Thank you for twist. It always keeps my brain thinking and my curiosity wondering keep up the good work Yeah, so uh Blair's not here to I don't know what her response would be Her response would be like what? mine would be to actually say that uh, Neil deGrasse actually sort of had the Answer in his analogy of turning the light on the subject because Largely how things are being viewed what we talk about being viewed as being viewed Um, actually means colliding photons with say another photon And seeing the energy Shift that takes place so it's it's you the the problem is that you're hitting a glass bottles with bowling balls Is the thread in analogy? Yeah, and um, and the thing that the way that you're seeing things is sort of by destroying This the where they were in the first place and that's that's where it's It's that's why it's complicated and tricky In a matter of photography think of a picture think of a photograph a photograph is a capturing of Of photons on a plate of some sort or in a digital form I just had a moment though. I'm like could you imagine? I mean so many people if sell if if taking a picture destroyed the subject Yeah The thing blows up and is no longer there right There would be no national landmarks there would be no people Yeah, everybody who's ever been photographed would be gone because it could no longer because it's you're creating a collision Uh of of things because that's all that's left at that level to look at something with Is another thing that you bonk it with? and that's Yeah, and so the question is what is the thing that you bonk it with? And so like they were saying a photon is going to be bigger than a subatomic particle and Uh can move it with all of its energy. Well, we've got other Uh frequencies of of the radio Electromagnetic spectrum, right? So we've got x-rays that we use. Um, we've got high frequency Waves that we that we currently use but this idea of It is Yeah, it's a hit the thing hitting another thing exactly and The idea of holding it still using acoustic levitation what I understand about acoustic levitation is that it only works for larger objects than subatomic particles because The levitation occurs by the object being levitated over The uh the wave and so it has to be larger than the distance between the peaks in a sound wave And so that's the way that the acoustic levitation Actually works. It's like bouncing a ball on top of On top of a comb or something, you know, but but so what I think it would have to be it would be magnetic Levitation which we use magnetic bottles for anti-matter and Uh and which you know, we haven't really imaged anti-matter, but I think magnetic Confinement would be the answer to that use big magnets to hold something in place really well and then smash something into it And then you're back to where you started All you're doing is increasing your ability to hit the thing. It's all that you've done Yes, I can hit it better You can hit it better, but you still smack the thing. I will tell you something that Keyball versus baseball. I have a much better chance of hitting that ball Exactly. Yes I will tell you something that's unrelated to your question sort of Uh, but we are using uh currently this uh new piece of equipment at work called an echo which uses uh acoustics as a pipetting device to uh to move nanogram Nanogram sized materials into a plate in which they become Uh sort of surface tension leaves stuck to And and so acoustics are being used at very small levels to do things that Previously we're not we were not able to achieve these super tiny scale Uh experiments that this device is this big machine Which is kind of cool and makes cool sounds and does neat things called the echo is able to achieve So acoustics are being used in science On the cutting edge of genomic research right now But it's still a matter of scale and uh Yeah, so the the problem is the scale their problem the problem with that capture of Of an image of a thing is the scale because once you get so small There's nothing else that you can utilize to interact that doesn't also disrupt Yep, pretty much it Yeah, small things to see small things you're taking a picture of a photon with a photon. It's And then when two photons meet they don't stay where they were or how they were the energy, right? Damian thank you so much for writing in we do appreciate your letter and your question and your thoughts Thank you so much everyone if you want to write in for our what has science done for you lately segment of the show Please do send us a note. Tell us what science has done for you. How has it affected you? How has it changed the way you do things in your life? Let us know by sending an email to me kirsten k i r s t e n at this weekend science dot com Or put a message in our facebook account. That's right. Go to this weekend science on facebook and send us a message Justin tell me a story Oh, what is this story about because I don't have my rundown Dogs you gotta take it to the dogs the hounds take it to the dog pound real quick. Uh dogs as we Uh currently refer to them Became domesticated as early as 14 000 years ago by current evidence So we don't actually know if this was because humans looked around and realized they didn't have any pets And so like stole puppies from some sort of wild animal and we're like I'm going to raise this as my pet That's a great idea. I'm gonna do that or if it was more along the lines of Dogs looking at humans and going Yeah, I bet I could convince them to feed me That's the one That's also like we don't really know how this came about and there's there's so many sort of overlapping uh behaviors between humans and dogs that it could have just slowly over long periods of time been the thing where we Like sir the same game. We like to take walks together with the same character Like there could have been all sorts of ways that this came about the recent research published the journal of anthropological archaeology By a team who I believe were archaeologists from the university of coban hound in denmark and the university college london suggests That humans took advantage of the human that humans took advantage of of Early dogs. Can you say that again humans took advantage of what the hunting abilities? of dogs Much earlier than we had previously any record for so this is a study of mostly animal bones some feces deposits from a 11,500 year old settlement in northeast jordan subiaca six is the site And evidence from this site suggests that dogs were not just present in the region But that humans and dogs likely hunted together As as like a team Well, yeah, so okay, uh, quotey voice and this is from lisa yeoman yeoman's Who is a zoo? zoo archaeologist And also the studies lead author the study of large assemblage of animal bones from sabias Revealed a large proportion of the bones with unmistakable signs of having passed through the digestive tract Of another animal meaning not humans these bones Are so large that they could not have been even swallowed by humans And must have been digested by dogs So lisa and her colleagues have been able to show that the site was occupied year-round It suggests that the dogs were Living together with humans rather than visiting the site And sort of like an offseason so so I guess there has been some sort of previous thing where like humans were there We Here in this one site for a while and then we moved on and then dogs came and sort of scavenged Through the trash heaps or whatever was left in the aftermath of humans bit These were year-round settlements And the dogs were present Quoty voice again The dogs were not kept at the fringes of the settlement But must have been closely integrated into all aspects of day-to-day life and allowed to freely roam about the settlement feeding on discarded bones and Defogating in and around the site. There were no plastics back there. There's no way there's no plastic bags There's no way to pick up when you were walking your dogs. So the dogs just made the difference stay there Which is a great signature and a great sign um What's also interesting When they looked at that they noted a curious increase and the number of hairs at the time that the dogs appeared the site so hairs Like a jackrabbit right like a There they there was an increase in fur Uh bones meat and bones that were used to make beads and the team think that this was likely due to the appearance of dogs Uh because the increase were related so meaning that these dogs were very efficient at hunting hairs bunnies Yeah, better than people Oh Suddenly suddenly the dogs increased the ability of people to eat bunnies Yeah, so the use of dogs for hunting smaller fast prey Which which wasn't our forte our forte was hunting kind of bigger prey That we would have to run after and then the fact that we could sweat and the fact that Like a lot of animals can't sweat. We could sort of just keep Jogging after them until they had heat stroke. This is basically When one of the earlier adaptations adaptations of human hunting Uh, it says here the use of dogs for hunting smaller fast prey such as hairs and even foxes Perhaps driving between closures Could provide an explanation that is in line with the evidence we have gathered the long history of dog use to hunt both small As well as larger prey in the region is well known and it would be strange not to consider hunting aided by dogs Is a likely explanation for the sudden abundance of smaller prey In the archaeological record as lisa yeoman's I love it. So dogs. So dogs were a tool to access Access access new and different food and I didn't have that in here, but yeah, that's a A great example like we utilize them as a tool as we had with you know inanimate objects in the past and and Because of sort of the general You know human Pack nature of both human and dog The relationship probably was like a big hit right from the beginning. Like, yeah, you know this works It's like hand meat hammer. Look at that. It fits. Oh my goodness Doing this for the next 11 and a half 14,000 For forever. Let's yes We'll keep doing this forever. Oh people and dogs But it pushes it but it it also it This study also pushes it back, right? It didn't push it back. It's it's uh Thousand years before the Or after the earliest date of domestication, but it's it's the first one that points to a Points to the specific like you said a tool sort of usage or or reason for This this cohabitation Because previously we didn't know if it was again any of the other if it was just like wanting pets Thought it was amusing. They found us to be a good source of excess resource There was there was not a lot of evidence previously of This this benefit to a selfish benefit to humans for having dogs about This one shows a pretty decent explanation Uh Link for for what we benefited from as opposed to just having to Go out hunting and then give a portion of our hunt to the dogs. The dogs were actually creating an extra resource in this center, which which definitely makes Uh a lot more sense for for their integration into our society Not that they do now now they now they're just Now they're just dogs. Yeah, it's a straight take now On the resource side of all but we're emotionally attached for some unknown reason of genetic history Yeah, we equate them with it and another thing that we are unreasonably connected to through our genetic history unfortunately is cancer and Researchers are trying to find therapies treatments for cancer that are as not as devastating as chemotherapy Or that are more successful at ridding the body of cancerous cells So recently researchers have published a study in cancer cell in which they have taken cancer cells And turned them into fat And they didn't turn back into cancerous cells. They just turned into fat cells All right, mr. Jackson, you have two choices One is you can allow your leukemia to progress to the point where it is deleterious and you will die sooner than you would otherwise Or you can accept another 40 pounds And Wardrobe No, I don't think I don't know if it's Then you would with just the cancers How do you choose? Is there a middle ground? Is there like I can have a little bit of cancer and have to just go up a couple sizes Yeah, well, let me explain to you how this works. So there is a process It's it's a de differentiation process and cancer cells Take advantage of it in their metastasis process. It is called epithelial mesenchymal Transition and it's a phase change for cells where Cellular plasticity is increased and so cancer cells take advantage of it and they exploit this Transitional phase in the the cell cycle to be able to to be able to expand and And escape where they are and so and and so become metastasized So researchers found with some anti diabetic and anti diabetic drug. That's called Rosigilletta zone I'm sorry drug drug names so many Consonance There are they're also using MEK inhibitors and this anti diabetic drug in a mouse model in which The mice had Human breast cancer So it is implanted into them and these these mice the breast cancer was developing as cancer does They use this therapy on the mice and it provoked the cancer cells during this epithelial mesenchymal transitional phase Instead of metastasizing To turn into fat They actually transitioned into post mitotic adipocytes fat cells and they did not Turn back into cancer cells the ones not all the cells turned into fat cells though There were some cancer cells that did not fall for this trap But many of them did and the but the ones that did They started a new life as fat cells Nice Yeah, they didn't want to turn around So the question it's not it's not going to it's not going to be like oh suddenly you're gonna gain a whole bunch of weight Because the cells are already in your body I mean they're fat cells so they can grow and shrink as fat does in its storage capacity, but It and then they're with you forever. You're not going to get rid of them unless you suck them out of your body through with a vacuum hose But they're not cancer cells and so Yeah in this scenario very important and researchers are wondering whether it can this Therapy can be used in conjunction with chemotherapy or other currently used therapies To really knock out cancer It's both good news for um cancer treatments and for yoga studios There's like a couple of You know benefits from this which will also leave you other health benefits in a broader, you know sort of range Exactly and these are the mek inhibitors and the Anti diabetic drug these are already FDA approved drugs and so getting approval to study them in this new Cancer paradigm should be fairly simple because safety efficacy for their Their marketed purposes has already been decided So this could make a shift to clinical use in a pretty Pretty quick cycle if if the research goes well And this is the second story you've brought this week that sort of had an on brand that had an off brand sort of use and it's And again, it's sort of My name needed the discussion we had in the first half of the show about how things Uh can can be cascading events And so if you can if you can prevent the cascade at some other point Even if you were targeting something completely different But it had a an affect that walked well in the cascade of another type of event That you can sort of prevent diseases by eliminating the symptoms That lead to other symptoms because those symptoms create for the cascading events. Yeah, they're really fascinating And I actually didn't really realize that all cells had this sort of well Not all cells, but yes pluripotent sort of modes, but where they can Where they haven't really been defined necessarily that you're going to be a skin Liver lung breast cell right and and that this was being explained this way. That's a very fascinating aspect of a cell development stage because what do you really want to be when you grow up? Right Hey I can make you a big star Just listen to me for a few minutes. You'll be huge. Yeah, unfortunately. That's the problem. There's too many Anyway, do you have more stories or tell me about the biggest things in the sea or egypt What? Yeah, it's sort of an interesting place to be Telling a story about wales It's a whale of a tail This is an egyptian. Well, yeah, I can I can tell what my tattoo This is an egyptian whale but egypt Everybody I mean also the eocene egypt to 35 million years ago. Okay Study published in the open access journal plus one by manja boss from the from the museum Nature kund Something like that berlin germany stomach contents of ancient whale Basilisaurus ices suggest That that whale Was the apex predator of its day Oh Yeah, so uh this particular adult balasaurus ices who was found in 2010 and wadi al-hatan, which Roughly translated is valley of the whales Which isn't a site of all places kyber egypt Which isn't you know all that underwater whether to be a valley of the whales However, if you dial it back to the eocene 35 million years ago, the site was actually a shallow sea And has a remarkable Wealth of marine fossils sort of also interesting sighted thingy to this the late eocene that 35 ish million years ago period We were leaving a hot planet trend and transitioning to a cooling planet Which means we may not have had the ice caps which means water might have been in more places than it is today which might be a clue for people in kyro now to buy real estate in other places But the uh the skeleton was distinct from other skeletons in cluster So they had the this whale of its day had pointed incisors and sharp cheek teeth Not a lot of things have cheek teeth these days Cheek teeth used to be a thing They just put teeth wherever you can put them I'd like some teeth in my cheek Yeah, uh Remains that other other fish remains including sharks were found with bite marks breakage points fragmentation And they happened to be clustered a lot of them within the body cavities of the balasaurus skeletons that they would find indicating likely that this was They were food They drew a comparison to the modern-day killer whale the orcas another toothed whale apex predator that lives today and and there was the They also found there's a lot of bones of dorydon atrox, which is a smaller whale and they found those other ancient whales were also in the belly of the beast so So they they made this sarson with the orca A a tendency to hunt humpback whales And they tend to hunt them when they're in their calving season when they're having baby whales So the authors are sort of stretching a bit, but they're hypothesizing that the valley of the whale site was primarily a whale calving site for the dorydon ancient whale and that the Masalosaurus was showing up there to hunt them to eat them. Yeah And that's and that's likely Yeah, that's the likely reason for for the finds easy hunting Oh, yeah, that's the other thing this thing is huge This thing is is 15 meters, which is bigger than any bus you've ever seen going down the road Right. This is this is a monster of a whale And I love the fact that that okay, so if you're just listening audio He has posted a picture of the skeletal And it just looks like a long spine like, you know, like whales is a couple of little toes by the back fin But you can see an entire hand You can see an entire hand of skeletal bones Uh, there despite the fact that this was would have been covered by a gigantic fin Uh, you can see all the fingers there Evolution You can't hide And I love the but I mean at those little tiny those little tiny is that the feet or the pelvic bones? Oh good. Uh, yeah, you're right. That's probably is that that is probably a tiny pelvis in the back The the toe bones may may not be in that picture. You're right Look at the hand There's a hand. Oh, yes Fossil record. You're so candid I love the fossil record Evidence going way back from you can't even hide your cheek teeth Who has cheek teeth anymore cheek teeth is so out people I'm sure there's things with cheek teeth. I'm gonna get an email someone's gonna be like, okay There's like a hundred species of different things that have cheek teeth scientists and exciting A development have been able to grow perfect human blood vessel Organoids in a Petri dish So the whole story of organoids are these multicellular miniature organs that can be used for research purposes Uh, and these organoids are often derived from stem cells and the stem cells divide into the multitude of cell types that are necessary to create this little mini model Little biological model of an organ They've been having trouble with blood vessels blood vessels in regenerative medicine has been one of the tissues that has been The hardest to get we're talking about trying to create organs that can be transplanted into people But we can't because we can't grow them because we can't grow the blood vessels can't grow the vasculature well researchers in canada have Succeeded they published in nature that they have uh that they were able to Canada no Yes in university university of british columbia that they were able to create these mini blood vessel organoids to study what they wanted to study is the development of diabetes in uh in the vasculature and how Diabetes affects the epithelial cells of these blood vessels and leads to the metabolic aspects of the disease that go on to cause so much so much trouble for for sufferers of diabetes It diabetes affects about four hundred and twenty million people worldwide. So this is something that is high on the list of Let's figure it out for scientists if you're one of those 240 million people four hundred twenty four hundred twenty million people. Okay, four hundred twenty million people the rest of us don't care I'm kidding I'm kidding So the another big thing is yes, they grew these vascular organoids in a dish But additionally they transplanted them into mice where They incorporated just fine. They grew into functional human blood vessels arteries capillaries all the things And we're healthy and so what this means is that we can now take stem cells from healthy individuals we can take stem cells from prediabetic individuals diabetic individuals and use for people with other vasculature diseases that are genetic in in nature Take them and use those stem cells to create Blood vessel organoids that can be studied in a dish or also transplanted into mice to see how Diseases develop in situ right in the tissues how the disease is developed um, and we can really start to tease these things apart and I honestly think this is also a big step on the path toward creating Vasculature that can be used in regenerative organs, which will help stop the organ Organ donation shortage and the organ crisis through the world kidneys livers These things all need all need veins blood vessels arteries. That's what they need. This is a step on that path. It's huge This is it's going to be great Plus it's also good for science and medicine. It's great. This is good Good job scientists The picture that pops into my head for this the analogy is this is like working on a puzzle Right and you find a piece and you go Oh, it goes right here and you go to put it down and Because you didn't have the ability to do the infrastructure of the vascular system yet Even though you know this piece goes here You can't place it there because it immediately gets rejected by the other puzzle piece even though it's obviously why it belongs there Yep Yep So it's a huge step. It's pretty awesome. Go blood vessels. Yeah Um, I have you have your Your surf story. I have three really quick stories really quick stories here one Well, I'm gonna let you do yours so I can do some other things while you talk So I'm gonna do mine really fast get them out of here Researchers have been studying the foot You know, people want to go barefoot running and people like you have flat feet Right now, but there's a big question about how is the foot put together to be a foot? And what about this arch and what supports the arch and so there is this muscle That has a little tiny muscle that researchers thought was very important for supporting the arch of the foot It's known as the plantar intrinsic muscles these little plantar intrinsic muscles Well, look turns out Researchers did a nerve block and blocked nervous activity that would stimulate these muscles to actually be able to work And so they were paralyzed And had people try and walk and run and they found that oh look these these pimps plantar intrinsic muscles Don't have anything to do with arch support, which is what everyone thought they did but are actually Essential for creating part of the force that we use to push against the ground and propel ourselves in our stride So now we know now these little muscles Nobody we still don't know what's supporting our arches But now we know that these little muscles are good for Good for taking a walk so so this is having This is this is meaning that the the foot motion in a walk isn't a solely in the hands of anyone muscle But it's sort of passed off as as you go through the motion It's like this little muscle that little muscle. It's all little muscles. It's a foot. There's no giant foot muscle Or there's all these little muscles that are sort of Handing off like a baton as if you were in a relay race in which you would really need a lot of really good foot muscles to be handing off the The work that needs to be done to move a foot forward It's uh all part of the foot system. It is It is When the pimps were blocked the distal joints of the foot could not be stiffened sufficiently to provide normal push off Against the ground and so people were kind of Hamstrung hampered, but it's not hamstrung. It would be Pimstrung Pimstrung uh researchers just publishing nature I didn't come flat put it. That's fantastic. Yeah. No, they didn't their arches didn't fall I don't know what supports the arches. That's still yet to be determined Arch it doesn't need support. It's an arch A new that's right. It's an arch. It's one of those basic structures Whoa All right researchers published in nature a new Uh compound that they have discovered by looking at a whole bunch of different compounds I did this big analysis and looked for things that might disrupt Uh lipid membrane production processes to potentially be an antiviral compound they found one compound that Potentially could protect against not just one But several viruses that rely on cells to create lipid membranes for them This compound seems to act against SARS MERS Zika an enterovirus and multiple Influenza viruses if not more That's a lot of the big ones on the list of the things that could potentially pandemicize everything Uh, yeah, yeah, so this is they're they're looking into it a little bit more I'm sure And then in other uh disease causing news researchers are reporting From the american society of microbiology that Maybe we shouldn't use antibiotics in space That uh, they they studied bacteria in a micro simulated microgravity environment where they You know give did shear forces and other things that would you know simulate this microgravity? and they Looked at bacteria E. Coli under this low shear modeled microgravity condition for a thousand generations And they used an antibiotic chloramphenicol between cycles to prevent contamination Researchers say the rotation vessel we use in our study simulates microgravity. The bacteria are in continuous free fall When you're in space gravity disappears and this simulates that we were using chloramphenicol to disinfect the apparatus With the result that the bacteria rapidly become resistant to chloramphenicol So they also used They also used sephaloton sephuroxime sephuroxin acetyl sephoxetion and tetracycline and the bacteria Acquired resistance to all of them the resistance to the chloramphenicol and sephalotin persisted for over 110 generations despite them being removed from low micro gravity and Not having antibiotics Around them. So basically the bacteria Get exposed to antibiotics. They acquire resistance to antibiotics. They keep their resistance to antibiotics and so the researchers are saying Bacteria in space will become resistant and so you might want to use might not want to use antibiotics all the time in space because you're going to cause Resistance that you won't be able to do anything about and I think that makes sense because the the the first Impression I have this is that because in that zero gravity low shear. There's also less interaction. So you have a less Homogenous modulus Homogenous homogenous. Thank you. Unless homogenous environment. So you you get You get some interaction with the antibiotic And then it's allowed to be transferred to others With sufficient time for them to become resistant As opposed to all being sort of affected Defected at the same time and not having time to come up with the resistance because there's a lag Interaction going I wish there was some way around this and so that that's sort of not being exposed to it and the Homogenous homogenous Homogenous, what are you trying to say? I don't know It's a foreign word to me, which I all right. Tell me a story. But tell me a story about surfing. This is what we came here for All it's all about the surfing story Take it quick sea level rise As you may have heard can put a coastal region at some sort of deleterious risk And it also happens to be the place where most people live is by coasts Uh new research shows that these coastal regions facing another climate-related threat as well Published in nature communications researchers report that the energy of ocean waves Has been growing globally And they found a direct association between ocean warming and the increase of this wave energy So a wide range of long-term trends and projections carry the fingerprint of climate change Including rising sea levels increasing global temperatures declining sea ice An analysis of the global marine climate thus far have identified increases in wind speed And wave heights in localized areas in the high latitudes of both hemispheres so Kind of what they've discovered mostly thus far has had been in the past increases in Larger more extreme values of wave energy But this was in the the extreme waves like the big winter waves. They were they could they could sort of recognize these increases Um more so than in the average the mean condition of waves Wasn't seeming to be as dramatically affected However, a global signal of change and correlation between localized increases in wave heights and global warming Yeah, not the tech so A new study focused on the energy contained in ocean waves Which is transmitted from the wind transformed into a wave motion Which is the metric when you boil it all down is called wave power And it turns out it has been increasing and it has been creasing in a direct association with historical warming of ocean surfaces The upper ocean warming measured as A rising trend in sea surface temperatures has influenced wind patterns Back and then in turn is then coming back as wind power that is then making ocean waves stronger This is quotey voice borja G reggae researcher at the institute of marine sciences at the university of california sand occurs For the first time We have identified a global signal of the effect of global warming in wave climate in fact wave power has increased globally by 0.4 percent That does not seem like a lot. Wait. I wasn't but i'm guessing it is okay. Sorry. Okay per year per year Since 1948 Oh Okay, so cumulative We're getting there All right, and this increase is correlated with increasing sea surface temperatures most globally and by ocean reasons says Uh, borja g reggae, okay university marine biosciences center. So, okay, if you take 70 years of point 0.4 if you prefer increase 70 times 0.4 or 0.4 either way works out the same you might be looking at a 28 percent greater wave power, right? What do you think? um But if you do the cumulative like you're saying because it's it's it gets bigger So your 0.4 percent is based on the other 0.4 that it bumps up not a whole lot. Just you know 32 percent So the waves that people were surfing back in the late 40s Ah 32 percent less wave power than we got Going it so yeah either why they're with Whichever both or neither it seems like a Staringly high increase in wave power in the last 70 years, right? Yeah, and and if we sort of then tie this into Okay, some of the extreme Climate things, you know, we're talking about What we talk about storm surge. Yeah And This is the stuff that's going to be constant. This is the constant. This is just power from waves constantly is more Which means more erosion beaches deteriorating more quickly hit me. Yeah Talk about storm surge and one of the things that That these storm surges do is they also push upon On tributaries that go out to the ocean delta regions rivers that head out to oceans Actually, you're pushing back before you get the flooding from river The flooding from rain That comes from a deluge of rain being over a period for a long time part of what is there also countering and fighting is the fact that the The direction of a river can change during these times And if you've increased that by 32 percent you put an increased pressure on a levy system Before the rainfall has even been taken into account. Yeah, so Uh, so yeah, and these all like largely affect So if you're part of the Know what it is. I'm just gonna guess it's 0.4 percent of humanity that doesn't live miracles You're largely being affected But for all of the rest of us That's a big deal Big deal However, might be more gnarly waves for surfing so there is Like there might be of course, you know, if there's a higher Sea level you might get less less gnarly waves in place where you used to get earlier So you're gonna have to go scrub out the new sides. There's gonna be a lot of wave power It's gonna be sweet I don't know. I don't know. Dude, the Mavericks are gonna be rocking I don't know enough for for lingo to even like delve down far enough into Delve into that one Everyone we have come to the end of our show even though the waves are still going there's more science to surf But we're gonna be back in a week Yeah, it's only gonna be a week only a week with more science So everyone I want to say thank you to those of you who are listening. Thank you for listening Thank you to those of you who are watching. Thank you for watching Thank you for being in our chat room if you're in our chat room Thank you to fada for helping with social media and with show notes in our youtube descriptions Thank you to identity four for helping to record the show. Thank you to Gord McLeod for his help in the chat room keeping it civil managing that stuff And I want to say thank you to our patreon sponsors. 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So everybody listen to what i say I use the scientific method for all that it's worth and i'll broadcast my opinion all over the earth Because it's this week in science This week in science science science this week in science This week in science science science i've got one disclaimer and it shouldn't be news That's what i say may not represent your views, but i've done the calculations and i've got a plan If you listen to the science you may just get understand But we're not trying to threaten your philosophy We're just trying to save the world from Japanese Japanese and this week in science is coming away So everybody listen to everything we say and if you use our methods to get a roll and a die We may rid the world of toxic plasma Because it's this week in science This week in science science this week in science This week in science science science I've got a laundry list of items I want to address From stopping global hunger to dredging Loch Ness I'm trying to promote more rational thought And I'll try to answer any question you've got So how can I ever see the changes I seek When I can only set up shop one hour a week This week in science is coming your way You better just listen to what we say And if you learn anything from the words that we've said Then please just remember it's all in your head Cause it's this week in science This week in science This week in science Oh my goodness, Blair has gone wonderfully off the deep end with our products. Look at these amazing products. Your animal can have a pet rat tag. You can have toad wrapping paper. What is this? I love, look at these t-shirts, T-Rex, I like the T-Rex. The T-Rex apron for cooking. Now that's pretty awesome. You want a rat coaster? We've got rat coasters, got cool hats, cool t-shirts, look at all these cool things. Did you just know you can have a tortoise tie? You should have a tortoise tie and looks like, oh, there's a T-Rex tie. Why don't you have a T-Rex tie yet, huh? I think I need to get myself a sweatshirt. I need a sweatshirt. Hey everyone, it's the after show. I don't know where Justin is. He's probably somewhere. I don't know. My child is finally asleep. He gets excited about my show. He wanted to know if I could create him a merch store for when his YouTube channel gets rich and famous. I told him to go to sleep. I am such a mom. Such a mom. Thank you for watching. Thanks, noodles. You took handwritten notes tonight. I love that. I love it when people take notes. Take notes. I can be here for a little while. My child is sleeping, so it's not a huge rush to go to sleep. Owl in time for the after show. Who else is here in YouTube land? We've got Daniel Folland. I saw you made a funny joke earlier. I thought there was something that was funny. There's in there lightning rod. Delmaré Smith. Who else is there? We've got some gem doctor. Daniel Folland. I hope in 2030 I'll be able to give somebody $500 to grow me a new liver. That would be nice. What would be better, though, is that you didn't have to have a surgery to put one in. You could just have an injection. Then the liver would grow inside you. That would be pretty awesome. That would be awesome. Space TV. Is Space TV still there? Yes. My RE20. I like it as well. I've had it for a very long time. I hope it lasts forever. It's the best microphone. I have others, but this one is the best one. Well, I have another one that's pretty good, but I haven't used it. Except for some video shoots. It's a road. A road liver. Right, Gord. My original liver grew inside of me as well. Yes, Adam Weaver. Hello, I see you there. I see you there. It's like so robot. But if it's liver and it's just a liver growing and it stops when it completes what it's doing, if it figures out its program and it gets it right and then stops, then it's not cancer. But I get your drift there. This is the concern about plugging stem cells and other things into our bodies. How do we know when they'll turn off? That is the question. Yes. No snapchats from Blair. Oh, yeah, I don't have any snapchats. I haven't seen Blair on social media. I think she's actually really on vacation, like not social media-ing. But then again, I haven't been checking Facebook very much recently. I haven't seen Blair either. There's only been a few times, though, to be as honest as I always am, where I've not been on the show and have watched the show or participated in any way. If I can't talk or be conscious. Then you're not going to make the show. You're not making the show. Otherwise, in any semblance of level of, you know, cognitive ability or, you know, access to or time to, like, I'm here. That's it. That's the threshold. If I could just listen to the show even, I should be able to be here. But the times when I haven't been here, it's because I cannot in any way. And I will shape and the form be here. And that's the only times that the hosts of this show miss this show is when there's not a possibility of being at all involved. So it makes sense that we haven't heard. In fact, I would be greatly irritated with Blair if she's like, I'm snapchatting. Here's what I'm doing. I'm communicating total access to information highway. I'm just not going to do the show. Like, that would also be like, you'd be like, well, okay, if you are able to do all of those things, then you could also be participating in the show. It's really not that much of an effort that we make. We make very little effort is what I'm trying to say. It's just simply like in our DNA. Right. It's just like breathing. It is at this point. I've done how many what episode was this? 7,000 and something. I don't know. But it seems like a big number. Okay, so I got to read this e scooter thing. Well, okay. So, uh, Ed has posted on Portland's successful scooter program. I did not try the scooter program. Marshall did try the scooter program. He wrote on it a couple of times. I have another friend who rode, tried the scooter program and got in a wreck and like wrecked his face because of the scooter. I've, yeah, I saw all sorts of, oh my goodness. Really? I don't believe this. I don't believe this survey. Okay, so there's an article on the verge, but being in Portland, I'm curious about how this e scooter test turned out because it was kind of like a, hey, well, if it turns out great, then we might have scooters all over the place. And I understand wanting to use these e scooters because great for short trips and they use off the electric grid so people aren't reliant on gas vehicles and all that kind of stuff. But at the same time, they were really annoying because people would just leave them everywhere, like the middle of the sidewalk. And yeah, they were kind of annoying and they're not around anymore. And I have to say the sidewalks are much nicer to walk on because people, these e scooters, they're supposed to be ridden on the street and people don't have helmets. And so then you have people riding these without helmets more slowly than vehicular traffic is going or they're illegally riding them unsafely on the sidewalk. And so I thought it was really awful and dangerous. But that's just me. But then, okay, data. The city's Bureau of Transportation did data analysis. Portland residents over four months took 700,369 trips covering 801,887 miles on 2043 e scooters. They found 62% of all Portlanders viewed e scooters positively at the end of the pilot. Support was even higher among Portlanders under 35, that makes sense. People of color and those with incomes below $30,000. That also makes sense that the economic aspect of it would be really significant. A significant share of residents said they were using e scooters to replace car trips. 34% of Portland riders and 48% of visitors took an e scooter instead of driving a personal car or using Uber, Lyft or a taxi. How many times? I mean they say 34% but like once or what? I don't know. 6% of users reporting getting rid of a car because of their e scooters and because of the e scooters and another 16% considered it. Which is a more interesting number I think. Scooter related injuries rose during the pilot period. E scooter injury visits accounted for about 5% of total traffic crash injury visits during the pilot period. Oh, there were lots of injuries but not terrible. Yeah, so the companies were not good at getting their scooters into low income areas like they were supposed to be. I don't know. I don't know. We'll see where it goes. We'll see where this goes. I guess that's successful. I find them annoying. Scooters. I appreciate the, if you're young, low income, you don't have a car, you don't want to get a car, you don't want to pay for an Uber or Lyft or something, something like that. You're also like maybe not wanting to ride a bike. Something like these scooters could be useful. We'll see where they go. We'll see. I don't know if I talked about this on the live show, but I've been actively hunting a school bus. Oh, that's right. To renovate into a motor home, tiny home. How's that going? There's a fantastic sale in Fakersfield right now from, they're getting rid of a bunch of school buses. I've been tracking that, but I'm still a ways away. Still a ways away from purchasing, let alone doing a conversion. But there is a, I wonder if it's a, I wonder if it's a, hey, just no, because it's actually, I guess a lot of the excitement around the schooly conversions has been a sort of millennial sack. But this also feels like a carryover from a generation that preceded mine in which people became Winnebago warriors and were like, yes, we can go everywhere and be anywhere and live in our vehicles. And this is sort of like a, a, a starship enterprise aspect of like your vehicle is your home for the next, you know, five year mission. Or also a, a Jules Verne submarine voyage. You know, you can consider the constructs a very schooly bust life. Taking it, going off, off in a very narrow tube of living space. So, so this, this may be, this may be a side aspect of the show at some point where I'm giving schooly updates. I haven't found the school, I haven't decided quite on the size of the schooly, they would even be right. If you all Google schooly conversion, there's a whole Instagram, YouTubey world out there of people converting. And the reason for school buses, which in the community is known as the shell, it's about the shell. Oh, really? Yeah. Part of the reason for it actually makes quite a bit of sense is to say it was a fry. There's a federal regulation for how a school bus must be constructed integrity wise that far outweighs the integrity of any other type of vehicle. Right. So the, the infrastructure has to be so rigid and the roll over strength and the, the car crash impact and all of these things led to basically what you could maybe in some thought consider a massive overbuilding of a school bus infrastructure in terms of the amount of metal and the sort of skeleton of the thing so that it can handle a tremendous amount of weight on the roof. By the way, it was constructed. You can put a lot of solar panels, a roof deck, all that sort of thing. It can withstand the weather better, the seasons better in terms of this. So, so there is, there is some reason beyond that school buses are cool that this was sort of selected as the vehicle for conversion. There's not an RV, a big truck, box truck or whatever shipping container that is built as infrastructurally strong as a school bus. Nothing else can match the integrity of this skeleton. The shell of the vehicle. Because of the transporting children that pulls on people's heartstrings and so they became federal regulations and instructed how they must be built. So the shell man. Yeah. So Hot Rod says he had a 27 foot motor home, paid 24,000 was older but nice shape. That would be cool to have a mobile home. Nope. Living it for five years. Till it was paid off. Wait, what do you mean nope lived in it for five years till it was paid off and sold it? You lived in it for five years? That's freaking awesome. That's a long run man. But that's the interesting thing about school buses is that they don't normally have a decent afterlife. So a 27 foot school bus might sell for like 5, 800 bucks, maybe a couple grand. They go really cheaply. The work that you have to put in is you know, sort of doing the upgrades, the interior of putting in the kitchen and the bed and some walls. But yeah, nobody can afford one of the really cool RVs. But that's why the school bus thing has become that sort of a thing is that they have a better infrastructure skeleton than any RV that was ever built. Same types of engines. You'll see the school bus engines and RV engines tend to translate across. The power trains often are very similar. So if instead of paying 30,000, 40,000, 50,000, $200,000 for a bus that has, you know, fiberglass and plastic walls. If instead you bought this like steel infrastructure and put in your own, you know, counter, just put in what have you built out the tiny home of your dreams within that for, you know, put in 5, 10, 15,000 including all of the solar power and plumbing and everything else. You can actually come out a lot cheaper and with a stronger skeleton. It's a really cool thing. I've watched a tremendous amount of YouTube videos and what's also fun is like it takes trajectory learning how to do the build up. And I'm like, oh, okay, I'm going to go ahead and weld. So I'm going to watch a bunch of YouTube videos about welding, which goes into like all sorts of metalworking. Like this whole rabbit's hole of learning about things just around a single subject that can take place. I like rabbit holes. Especially if you have dogs in your community. Way to bring it back. More rabbits. We have this new like sort of communal bike thing going on in Davis. There's these big red bikes that you can put in the cart. I don't know if they charge you, but I haven't done it yet. So I can't. Yeah, they do that. They do that here. It's pretty, pretty affordable. Yeah. They don't do e-bikes, but they do, not electric bikes, but they're just, they're city bikes. Sharing. Yeah. There's a Davis thing that's, and it's funny is that I don't know. I have get to see where the parking is. Like where the, where the distributions are. I have no idea. I have yet to see like where you put it back in the thing and the thing grabs it. So it stays there and there's a place where you put a card or something to transfer money. I haven't seen any of those, but I've seen probably a hundred of these bikes or maybe it's the same bike over a hundred days on the road with somebody riding it around. Like I keep seeing people riding these bikes. You're just not, you're just not in the right places, Justin. It's because I drive a car. So like I don't, I don't go where these biking people will pick up their bikes. But it's just, it seems like it's like really become a big thing all over town. Yeah. They're pretty popular. They're, they have these bikes in New York, Portland, San Francisco. They're, they're popping up all over, which is pretty cool. These bike share programs. The e-scooters, the one thing that I thought was really neat is that they had a GPS on them. So even though there is like the parking where you were supposed to be able to go and pick them up or reserve them to pick them up or whatever. Because of the GPS in the app, you could find out when you open the app, you could find out how close you were to any, to any of these scooters and reserve one. And then you could go get it and drive it to wherever you wanted and then just drop it off. And at the end of the day, I guess there's some vans that drive around and pick up all the scooters and take them back to the charging hub. Yeah. That's cool. So this is also a thing with electric cars. So you can, there's a number of apps. I think one is called Plugin or something of this nature, but you can, you can go look at where there are available places to plug in your electric car. You can look at rates of different places, all that sort of other junk, but you can also just look at like, okay, this one is currently full over here. So don't go there because there's a line of electric cars waiting to get charged. But you can also see over here, 50% capacity. If you go that extra mile or two or whatever is, you can go there and plug in your car and you'll have no problem because it's, it's tracking again by phone or by car GPS. It's tracking what cars are where, what bikes are where in the e-bike. We're getting, we're getting to a smarter thread. It's getting there. Yeah. I think it's exciting. We're not there yet, but we're getting there. Little tiny bits. Hopefully it'll happen faster and faster and faster. Yeah. I think it's exciting. It's the last barn bill. I know you've said this. Yes. Very excited about the hemp aspect of it. The hemp aspect, because that's what you're going to say. My favorite part of it is having, spend somebody who's actively had protested old growth lumber acquisitions by junk bond companies that pick over lumber companies in the Pacific Northwest was, was, was trees. We have a nice, we have some nice forests in the Pacific Northwest that we should preserve. And for the first time ever, rural Southern conservatives who were looking to replace tobacco with hemp to make paper e-products are going to be in support of forest conservation. And, and there's going to be huge dollars poured into forest conservation from lobbying firms that we're really not interested in this sort of subject in any way. Yeah. We're going to see a revolution in where our paper comes from, where our clothing comes from, there might be some fights between hemp and cotton in a way, vying for that. There could be, there could be biofuel implications from this, but it's, it's a really huge step that the far left has been fighting for, for a really long time, which is going to be a big financial boon for a lot of states that are in the hands of the far right talking politically on the, the outskirts. But it's going to make interesting bedfellows is, is sort of what I'm saying with this too. It's like there's going to be bend diagram massive bend diagram overlap desires to see a more environmentally friendly future with this farm bill, which I think is going to be a double net positive for our country and then hopefully eventually the whole planet. Yeah. All the positives. Let's think positively. And the positive note, I will add one more long diatribe of conversation at the end of the after show, which is to say good night Kiki. Oh, good night Justin. Good night everyone. Yes, I'm going to go take my young and who's snoozing down here. He did fall asleep. I can't carry him guy. I can't carry him up the stairs anymore. He's just make sure his head doesn't hit each step on the way up. Yeah, exactly. I'm like really all 70 pounds of you. Okay, let's go. Three flights of stairs. Let's do it. Oh yeah, because it's already, there's already an upper and then you're in the sub. Yeah. I'm in the basement. Oh, I have something to ask you after we hang up. So don't don't hang up immediately. All right, everyone. Thank you so much for joining us again. We'll be back again next week. And I'll be here Friday. I would not hear Friday. I'll be on Twitch Friday at 1 p.m. Pacific time to have my weekly Twitch stream. Take care. We're looking forward to seeing you soon. Next week. See you next week.