 Once that this is out, hey friends, you're watching behind the scenes, Divine Intimacy Radio, this is Dan Stephanie Burke. And today we just got back from the Camino, walking the Camino from France to Santiago de Compostela, which is the entirely opposite end of Spain from France and the northern part of Spain. And we'll just be talking about the Camino and the fruits and the pilgrimage, just sharing a little bit about how it affected us. And the, yeah. So before we jump into the show, we wanted to tell you about that. OK. Are you going to tell them? Yeah, sure. So we want to invite everybody to this year, 2023's Avalos Summit where we gather from around the world. Really, we have friends, students, members of our community, new friends, new followers, new student, new everything. From new and old, we gather together to celebrate, to pray together, to learn together and to draw together wonderful speakers on various themes. This year, the theme for the summit is the Marian mystery and the triumph of the Immaculate Heart. I know something that's very dear to most faithful Catholics. I mean, really, all saints share one particular thing in common, besides many others. But one of them is that they have a tremendous devotion to the Immaculate Conception, to our Lady, to Mary. They have a deep love and desire to know all things, Mary. In fact, I was listening to a talk this morning as I got ready to a convert who had an extraordinary experience and it's just so beautiful. You know, we just love our Lady. So the dates are October 13th through the 15th at the Shrine of the Blessed Sacrament in Hansville, Alabama at the feet of her son in the Blessed Sacrament. And so some of the talk titles, some of the guest speakers are Bishop Liam Carey and he'll be speaking on our Lady of the presentation and her School of Charity. And then Clare Dwyer will be talking about giving God your best. Yes, Mary, the Holy Spirit and your personal vocation. Father Ignatius Switzer, the eschatological birth. Eschatological. Eschatological. OK, you say it. I'll say it. Eschatological birth bangs are prayer and Mary's triumph. Sister Regina Marie Gorman, love her. She'll be speaking on Stella Morris, the guiding star in the dark night. And Dr. Mark Maravalli, the triumph of the Immaculate Heart and a new Marion dogma. Wonderful. Yeah. So head out to spiritualdirection.com forward slash events. This is an extraordinary lineup of speakers. So you really don't want to miss it. Yeah. And I know we we've sold many, many seats. We just have a few left. So please reach out and get that in spiritualdirection.com forward slash events. On that note, you might notice some other things that we're doing. We have a marriage retreat in November, another one in February. Those will sell out as well. So make sure you get your ticket now. Do not delay. Come all right, come be with us. Let's jump into the show and your markets that go. This is Dana Stephanie Burke. Welcome to Divine Intimacy Radio. Your radio haven of rest, your hermitage of the heart, your monastery of the mind where we lift our hearts and minds to heaven to draw upon the wisdom of the saints so that we can navigate the tumult of this very challenging life. Yeah. Yeah. Hey, you know what? What? You look pretty good. For for an old man that just walked the Camino. Oh, I'm very tired. I can tell you that I'm very tired. I'm I'm I've got jet lag on a scale of one to ten out of 17. Yeah. Well, you slept the whole way. I didn't, but I watched you. So I wish I just slept the whole way. I listened to you sleep the whole way. I slept a few hours anyway. Yeah. But before we do that, I just want to announce I'm very happy to have this in my hands. Yeah. Finding peace in the storm. It's an exciting thing. It is. Yeah, it is very exciting. Reflections on St. Alphonsus for Gourry's uniform with God's will. I think you have in your hands is the book. OK, well, you didn't say that. So we have people. Oh, that's right. The radio and they can't see unless they're watching on video. That's a good catch. Yeah. So the for those on the radio that can't see what I was just waving in my hand. It's the book Finding Peace in the Storm. Finally out. I'm very excited about it because. Well, one, it's it's uniformity with God's will, which is a text that my our son pointed out to me and had had a huge impact on him. And for me, the whole doctrine of the sovereignty of God or the understanding of the sovereignty of God really was part of the bringing me out of darkness, you know, from the junk of my youth. And there are several other books that are very good. This one, there's three that are exceptional. One is Jacques Philippe's Searching for and Maintaining Peace. Then the second is and in this and I'd read him in this order. The second is Sacramento, the present moment by Jean-Pierre de Coussade. Best translations by Kitty Mugridge. And then the third kind of the capstone of these three is uniformity with God's will, which is captured in this book, Finding Peace in the Storm, in its entirety by St. Alphonsus Luguri. And of course, and I'm doing spiritual reflections in the book. The reason these books are so important is that they help you to look up in the midst of the storm. You know, Peter sunk in the sea in the way in the waves, because he stared at the waves. And that's kind of our problem because he took his eyes off Jesus. Right, right. And it's actually a combination of things. He took his eyes off Jesus and he put his eyes on the world. And what this these books, when they focus on the sovereign movement of God, help you to recognize is why things are happening. They help you to look up. They help you to understand what God is doing so that you can participate instead of being tossed around and wracked. You can, you know, the storm can actually fuel your ascent to God, one of the things I said in the book. So finding peace in the storm, you can find it everywhere. So if the Institute Press, no doubt, EWTN's religious catalog will have it. Our shop button, spiritualdirection.com, right? And you can hit the shop button there. And so check it out. And I would strongly recommend and I would just ask you to do this first by seven. That's all I asked seven. Why seven? I like that number. That's my favorite number. Yes, I know you do. So the the the it it will be. This will be my first book that will be picked up by secular public or book houses, book. Book Somalian, Barnes and Noble, and Barnes and Millions. Yeah. And the reason they're big deal, they're picking it up. It's because I've just been blessed with the Lord's bless me with a very healthy book sales. I'm over and all the books I've written. So but I really would say, please read it for yourself. Things are not going to get easier in the church or outside. And we really need this kind of perspective to help us to navigate these difficult times. So with that, why don't we jump in and talk about the Camino? OK. So Stephanie and I did the Camino, which starts in France at St. Jean de Porte de Porte, right? Yeah, which I loved. I love that town. Yeah, it's a neat little. Oh, I mean, every town through is amazing. Then we went all the way across northern Spain and ended at Santiago de Compostela, which is the church with the tomb of St. James and which is an extraordinary St. James, the greater, right? St. James, the apostle. Right. That's kind of the big thing. So but, yeah, it was an amazing it was an amazing trip. It was very taxing, I would say. Physically, I was a little surprised at how hard the first day was, though I had a sense I bet the first day is going to be hard because that's just the way I think work. That was the hardest day for me. Yeah. Yeah. Because I never measured the the slope of the that one was rough. Yeah, it was like it was really rough where it's it was so steep. You move your foot, you know, just an inch past your left here to your back foot, then you move your other one an inch past your I mean, and it's like that you're on your toes. And but it was an amazing it was an amazing trip. We did it with Joseph Pierce, who is famous for many of his writings, but in particular for this trip was his work on Tolkien. He's a I would call him a Tolkien scholar. I don't know if he'd call himself that, but he certainly looked upon that way. And he gave lectures throughout the throughout the pilgrimage. So it was it was great to be with and get to know him and spend time with him. Absolutely. I mean, he just feels I mean, he is he's a brother in Christ. And there was just an immediate friendship and camaraderie and laughter and joy. It's obvious he walks with the Lord. So that was a joy to to be with another who was really on fire. And this one of the things that surprised me about the Camino, because I mean, I I love the Hobbit, the Lord of the Rings. I've watched all the movies. I read the Hobbit when I was a late teen cover to cover. I used to read voraciously. And I think I tried Lord of the Rings and kind of set that aside and gave in to the movies instead. But I didn't know what to expect with this. I wanted to walk the Camino. This opportunity came up and you thought it would be interesting to combine this with with this these lectures on Tolkien. So you asked me if I wanted to go and I said, are you serious? You know, I was like, really, we're going to get to walk the Camino. And you said, yes. So I jumped on the on the bandwagon. I had lots of questioning moments before then, you know, as we were getting ready before we left, like, what have we done? But I want to say this, as Joseph started to speak about the about. The different Christian, truly Catholic elements in the Hobbit and Lord of the Rings and and then just talk about literature and the different understandings according to Tolkien, especially through this book called Tree and Leaf, if any of our friends listening are are familiar with it, he taught through that book. I was moved at how many consolations I received listening to him speak. And I remarked to you about it because it wasn't like they were overtly you know, spiritual, spiritual. Yeah. But they are, but they're not, right? It's different. I didn't expect it to be such to have those kind of consolations. And you mentioned that it's because it's true. Yeah. It's it's the good, the true and the beautiful. And it was like breathtakingly beautiful. Yeah. Yeah. So can I tell everybody one thing that I learned that I think is really amazing about God's design is that every leaf on every tree is as different from a tree neck, a leaf, another leaf, as our fingertips, fingerprints are unique. So every leaf on every tree is as unique as our fingerprints are unique. That's how like he said, God's not a mass producer. He's not a mass production person. That's not who God is. His design is so perfect and so amazing that every leaf is so unique, as unique as your fingerprint. And I just sat there and my like my brain just kind of overloaded at that moment at the thought because we're dry. You know, we we had some moments when we got to drive and looking at the landscape and walking through the field and seeing this extraordinary landscape that God has created just for you and just for me and just for all of us to enjoy this this this art masterpiece around us for our enjoyment and our provision and to take care of us. It's just it's mind blowing. It's beautiful. It's extraordinary. And our God is so amazing. I agree. We're in agreement on that. And the exclamation points are retired, I maybe I agree. So aside from Joseph Pierce, because I think what we'd like to do is encourage people to go on Camino. I mean, one, what got me to go on it was watching the movie The Way and there's some stuff in there that's not Catholic that is done by a Catholic. And we know we know it's OK. Yeah, I mean, I mean, it's not OK that it's there. I'm just saying we do gathering ashes of your of your loved ones. But yeah, that movie is what moved me to be interested. And then Joseph Pierce and then a friend of ours, Curtis Williams, who was coordinating was coordinating. It was kind of just it all came together. And we met with Joseph when we were leading a pilgrimage in Spain in Burgos in June and then was it June? When did we go to Burgos? You mean with with Curtis did what did I say? You said, just oh, yeah, Curtis, right? We met with Curtis. Yeah. Yeah. So anyway, but the movie. So I'd recommend you watch the movie. I think it's, you know, it has a lot of subtlety to it. And there's, you know, some good and bad stuff in it. But it was fascinating to experience. What I know it's a movie. But well, it's a it's a it's a glimpse of what happens on the Camino. Right. And the thing is, everything in that movie happens on the Camino. So there there, you know, I found it to be pretty fascinating. And, you know, I want to know what your highlight was when we get back. But I think one of the things that was very moving to me before we got a break is that we came to the Iron Cross towards the end and it's where everybody carries their rocks of their whatever they're carrying on this Camino. And and I picked up four rocks on my Camino, and I won't explain what each one of them was. But those were those things that I carried on the Camino step by step in my backpack with my intent of leaving at the at the foot of that Iron Cross. Yeah. And to to walk up to the Iron Cross and see probably millions of millions of rocks of people leaving their heartaches, their sorrows, their pains, their sufferings, their desires at the foot of the cross had to have been over 10 feet tall. It was extraordinarily powerful. It brought me to tears. I know it affected you. Yeah. And I just I just I could feel what people were carrying. And it's quite profound, the symbolism of leaving that at the foot of the cross. Lord, I leave this with you. So when we get back, I want to hear about what was moving for you. Awesome. And the market said, go this, this is Dan Stephanie Burke. Welcome back to Divine Intimacy Radio. We're talking about our recent experience with the Camino. We literally got back yesterday, but I mean, that's of the, you know, the you you may hear this recording at a different time. But so for those watching on video, I'm going to just not even try to hard hide my yawns, just make strange looking faces. And but yeah, jet lag, but good. Yeah, so the Iron Cross moved me a lot. I mean, I not because of me taking any, I didn't really participate in that part of the Camino, all that in a real serious way. I mean, there was nothing negative to that or anything. But as I saw it and I stepped onto it, I began to weep. And and what was overwhelming to me, because it is this, I don't know exactly how high it is. I wish I knew how tall it is, but it's got to be at least 10 feet tall. It is a huge mound of millions of rocks that people have brought. And it's, you know, you know, prayers asking the Lord to save someone or get rid of the sin in their life or, you know, deal with all the junk that people deal with and I felt the pain, just the enormous amount of pain and prayer that had gone into that hill. And it was just it was I had to be by myself for a bit. Yeah, you know, I think what's remarkable there because, you know, there was a time when the Camino was extraordinarily Christian. It was it was people who were going to the tomb of St. James were Catholics were Catholics. You know, it was begun by Catholics and it's been continued by Catholics. But there are plenty of folks who have no idea about the Catholic faith or they're on their own kind of whatever journeys pass they're taking. You know, I ran into Julie. Julie is a Buddhist and we had this great conversation. Vietnam, originally from Vietnam and working in California and now living in Spain, working for an American company that I'll leave out. And and she was on the Camino by herself, you know, and she was carrying her burdens, you know, we were the same age. We shared a little and, you know, I know you ran in to an atheist. You know, we ran into a following Catholic from Australia. Yeah, Pierre, Pierre, you know, that it recently lost his wife and he was on the Camino to try to figure out who am I without my wife? So how do I walk this? You know, how do I live? How do I keep going? Right. And I think that's what's quite remarkable about it as you walk the Camino and you see the different rocks and little things that people leave at different stops along the way that humanly speaking, we're in all humanity. We're all carrying across. Right. Everybody is suffering something. Yeah, they're working through something. And to walk on that community, that Camino, it's just not possible that you're going to come away the same. I don't I don't think so. I don't think you're going to be the same. And so I just think it's it's just it's worth doing. I'm grateful I did it. I'm totally hooked. I will go back at some point. Hopefully, you know, we'll go together. Yeah. And so I don't know, I just think it's great. So I'm not hooked, but I do plan on going at least one more time. But the the I found the conversations to be very powerful like the one with Pierre, I learned that he was a fallen away Catholic and that he he didn't really. He was very devout, but he didn't understand the faith very well. And so he was betrayed. And it was a beautiful thing. You know, I said at one point, I don't want to offend you. And he but can I say something to you about your struggles? And he said, you won't offend me. And I'm happy to hear what you have to say. And he's I said, why why would you allow Judas to keep you from Jesus? You know, his response wasn't. Wasn't I mean, it was off the cuff and it wasn't it wasn't negative. But it was a powerful conversation. Another one, as you mentioned, it was an atheist, a woman from Beijing, China, who had never considered God in her life before. She was 23 and she was an AI artificial intelligence software developer. And she was coming on the Camino because she was feeling anxiety and feeling trapped and feeling closed in. And, you know, wow. And what's fascinating is about the Camino is with only one exception. Is anyone, everyone wanted to talk. And I what's striking to me about that is that isn't that way on the street or in the shopping malls or, you know, in in, you know, the everyday life. And it's really been something I've been musing on. Like, why? Why are people so why is why is this Australian guy going? I don't know who I am without my wife. Very moving. But why was he willing to say it to strangers? And I think in some ways it's because everyone in the Camino knows. I mean, other than just the sort of bucket listers, let's say, excluding the bucket listers. And there are plenty of those. And they're the ones that are basically running, almost running the Camino, they're walking so fast. It's just like I have a goal and I'm going to kill it today. Yeah, they're not walking it. They're trying to kill something or yeah, or racing on their bike. I mean, I'm sure they're healthy bicyclers, too. But but the bucket aside from the bucket listers, I think it's because everyone on the Camino looks at everyone else and knows. It's hard for me to say you're broken, too. We're all broken and we're all struggling. We're all trying to figure something out and we're all trying to understand something about life or about God or about, you know, somebody I know was struggling. I won't say who or how I met them or whatever. They're struggling with habitual sin that was very disturbing to them. And and just listening to them wrestle with that. One of the folks in our group was not a, I would call him agnostic, really neat guy. Really neat, great disposition, great to be around, just positive. And just, you know, he didn't reveal much, but he wasn't hiding anything. He was just in this interior process, you know. And he did say I'm on the way to figuring out who, you know, who God or what I believe about God or whatever. Yeah. Yeah. And so I just found that striking. Yeah. Yeah. And I think maybe it's maybe it's one of the reasons why like apostolate via our community is so compelling to people is because we that is our. We are authentic, authentic. It's our it's in our DNA to just be honest. Yeah. Look, we're all broken on this thing together. And if you're broken, you're welcome. And it's OK like nobody's going to judge you. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, just a lack of facade. I mean, you know, I heard a political, not a political, but a social media person discussing recently that they move from the city to the suburbs. And what they couldn't get over is that in the suburbs, people like talk, you know, you go to the store and people go, how are you? Right. You want to know. Yeah. And they they actually want to know. And and that at first he was incredibly irritated, like this is going contrast to what I need to get done today. Like you are not on my schedule, right? Talking to you know, and that's that's contrary to what we are as humans, as we are, should be, you know, what we're about in our past only VA, what we should be about in the church, what we what we saw happening on the Camino is this profoundly human experience. Yeah. Everybody walking, everybody hanging out at the different places along the way to grab a beer and I didn't drink beer. I'm not drinking beer and walking. That's exhausting. I don't know how people do that. You and I didn't do that. But, you know, taking something to drink and and grabbing a sandwich or a piece of fruit or whatever, and everybody adjusting their poles and fixing their shoes or whatever. But we met deacons from Texas. Oh, great, a priest from Texas. Deacon and his wife, you know, all kinds of people that are are being really human and and there's something about being on the Camino that we're kind of all in this together and people are genuinely and they're helping and friendly. Yeah. Yeah. We met a Russian woman who she wouldn't make get very far and she'd have a seat to smoke a sick, you know, and she'd go a little while longer and then we'd see her and she'd get ahead of us and then we'd see her sitting smoking a cigarette and and saying, you know, I don't know. I'm kind of agnostic or whatever. But she was there, you know, she was there and and it was obvious that she's going, you know, my life doesn't make a lot of sense. Maybe if I come out here and walk, maybe I'm going to find some meaning because I think at her core, she didn't have meaning. What's the purpose of my life? Yeah. And I think the Camino is a great way to figure that out because you've got the silence, the beauty. You have people, you have food, you have the difficulty, you have the difficulty in the challenge and it's just getting out of yourself, out of your narcissism and your self absorption, your cycles and your cycles and your patterns and saying, I'm going to go do something totally different. And I'm going to let the Lord work. And, you know, it's just it's great. I love the Camino. You asked a question I didn't ever answer, but I think I'll answer it now. Maybe we'll conclude with it is what was the one thing for me and it was recognizing that through Joseph Pierce, actually, that we need story. It's you must have doctrine is really important in all the black and white and the taxonomy and all of the it's not this, it's that, you know, is really important, but to but to connect with God, we have to have story. And then I thought it was just musing on it this morning in prayer. And I thought, well, duh, the first four books and five books in the New Testament are all story and within the story of art is Jesus, except for the Book of Acts. Within this, the four gospels is Jesus telling stories or parables or whatever. And it just struck me how important story is and a kind of holy imagination. So pick up Tolkien. Yeah. Yeah. Watch the chosen, watch chosen leaf and tree and I'll end with this. So we got to the very, very end of the Camino, got to St. James and then walked all the way to Finistata, which means end of the world, which in the scene of the way is where he finishes dumping the ashes into the ocean. So it's it's a beautiful place that means literally end of the world. And the Lord gave me a grace there and I looked up into the sky and as the sun was starting to set across, appeared in the sky and I captured it. I wish I could show it to everybody. It was awesome. Yeah. But, you know, it's the way of the cross. That's our way to salvation. So God loves you. We love you. And until next time, may the God of peace make you perfect in holiness, may he preserve you whole and entire spirit, soul and body, irreproachable at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. Amen. Amen.