 Okay. My name is Alicia Walker and I'm calling this meeting to order as co-chair. Governor Baker's March 12 order suspending certain provisions of the open meeting law allows us to hold this virtual meeting of the working group. Given that we have a quorum present. I am calling the June 10th 2021 meeting of the community safety working group to order at 534pm. I will call upon each member of the working group by name. At that time, they should unmute their mic and say present. This will indicate that they can hear me and we can hear them. Please remember to mute your mic after saying present. Miss Pat and Anna Baku. Yeah. Miss Deborah Ferrera. Yeah. Mr. Russ Vernon Jones. Present. Miss Tashina Bowman. Yeah. Miss Brianna Owen. Yeah. Okay. So I want to take a couple of minutes to review the agenda. Typically we have public comment first, but just because we have Mr. Backelman, the town manager here tonight for a limited amount of time. We're going to suspend public comment to a little bit later in the meeting to give us time to discuss some of the time sensitive issues while we do have him present. And so on our agenda today, we do have that public comment will come later reports by any members of the community safety working group. And then we'll move on to the last release and other communications that we've been working on with the community and with the town council strategy on moving forward with the second half of our charge and extension for the second half of our charge and written materials for the second half of our charge. The second part of the second phase of the IFB town forums and then lastly we'll double back to reconsidering our summer schedule. So I just wanted to open the floor to discuss the second half of our charge and our extension, just first before we move forward while Mr. Backelman is here as well as any questions we have on the IFB and that portion of the second part of our charge. So I just wanted to open the floor I know there were a couple of members who had preexisting questions. And then Miss Owen. So I guess for me the more pressing questions while Mr. Backelman is on is just figuring out the extension. You know I know last time Mr. Backelman was here he said that the town council will be presenting this two kind of August dates that that they'll meet. And so, but I was thinking more so the later one like the 23rd of August, that maybe we could have our recommendation for the second part of the charge done before then so that the present to the town council on the 23rd of August. So that would be the case, let's say, by when should we give you should we still because I'm so fuzzy about the order should we still give you the record, we need to give you the recommendation beforehand we give the recommendations to you and the town council on the 23rd. What would be the process I guess will be my question. So that's a really good question so I think with the previous section it was extended six weeks to, and I think the thing that was different about the part a was because of the budget request and I had budget deadlines. That doesn't exist for this. So we don't have to think about that preliminary action because I had a May 1 budget deadline I was trying to hit, but we went to May 15. So I think shooting, you know, so that's that needs to add like six weeks on to where you are today, basically to get to mid August, I think. So I think I think it would be ideal to shoot for the August 23rd town council meeting. And so as I as when I looked at this when I set when I wrote the charge. I was looking at two big things and then the third thing came up and so I just sort of identify that the first was setting up the community responder program. And I think that that's been done, and it's been. It's not I know it's not at the funding level that the working group is is seeking, and you will continue to advocate for that. But I think that we're really targeted to get this moving forward. You know, we have a good group that's going to work I really thrilled that the co chairs have volunteered to participate in this and the forming of it there's a lot of details as we start talking more you uncover lots of more details that this group will have to work out and, you know, Ms moison will be part of that as well. So, I think that will move forward and, you know, ensuring funding you're getting the 90,000 from this state from the center coma for she also mentioned today as on the call with her two other grant programs we could get to get this program. And one of them she said would be perfect for this program because it's different, our program is different than a lot of the co responder programs that people are setting up. So I think we have a lot of good opportunities and, and our staff is excited about this. The second one was to do the resident oversight board, you know the committee that I think that was what we had talked about was to get what is that group going to look like in terms of the, you know, the complete process and all the things that have popped up that that we've heard testimony about with the police department, and what's that look like and that's got a lot of complications to and I think the success of that again is going to make sure that the, you know, we've got all the players involved who are going to be working with it, you know, the police chief I think is key to having this be successful and he understands how all the policies work the interactions. You know, we know that there are things that will come in that we aren't aware of, you know, issues that have that will people have been felt uncomfortable bringing to the police previously under the old way and so setting up that group and what that group's charge is going to be and what types of things and who should be on that committee is really a big thing. So we come out with a community responder and a resident oversight board, and then I can tell you today the finance committee voted to recommend and this is not in your daily work but it's relevant I think to vote. We working with our finance director came up with a way to fund reparations establish a reparations funds that would have some money that would go into it every year. And then having a, all this the details need to be worked out having a group that would then help to distribute those funds in a way that they think so. And so as I look at this I feel like we're making, I mean just in the last year made some real tangible progress. And I think if we can, my goal on this is to get the resident oversight board up and running this fall and get that work on the charge for that. So, I guess just a follow up yeah I mean thank you for clarifying, you know your goals and everything but you know again like I had said like last week I think we're going to go a lot more beyond that though, besides just oversight board and and of course we are going to provide other details the oversight board that's one of the things that's in that consulting if the phase, but you know my interest that I'll speak for myself, you know because I know we still need to discuss it is to kind of go beyond that in terms of sharing other areas of reform for the APD. So I guess so then since there are those kind of same constricted kind of timelines because of the budget. So let's say if we are presenting to the town council on the 23rd. You know, should we give it to give you the recommendations, I guess we'd have to kind of give the town council that information anyway prior to so that maybe the Monday before like the 16th, we would kind of. Well, yeah, let me just look my calendar. Yeah, August 16 is Monday before the 23rd. I think they would welcome that that you know, the 16th would be a good timing for that. So anyway, I was just trying to kind of work out some of the stuff obviously just to present it to the CSWG so that then we could talk further. Okay. Thank you so much, Miss Owen had a hand and then miss Pat. Yeah, so I did get a chance to look over at the IFB over the weekend. And I was wondering if there was funding available for consulting because the IFB. Again, I do agree with Miss Freira there's going to be a lot of work besides the resident oversight board and I do think we were probably going to need help with that. I think we should look at what is the additional work that's that you're wanting to do and talk about what what's the what's the time frame what can we get done in the period that we have. So I think you know what I you know what I'm looking for is the next phase is to get it, the resident oversight board and I think that in and of itself is a pretty big task. There's a lot of other work that needs to be done, but whether I don't think it's realistic to say we can get this done over the next, you know, two months or whatever we have between now and August. So I think, I think you want to be realistic about what we can do because we're not going to get everything done. And there's going to be a lot more work that has to be done in the future. You know, I think I'm not encouraging you to expand the scope of what needs to be done. I'm trying to, I'm hoping that you'll be going with the goal where of getting the resident oversight board going. Yeah, kind of as a follow up to that, our is our charge going to be extended because it seems after watching the last town council meeting it kind of seems like council members are interested in reform within the police department. So I don't think I don't feel like we'd be doing our full charge if we just did the resident oversight, like Shawlani said that she was very interested in police practices being reviewed and other council members to so I just like are we going to have more time as the CSWG going to continue so that we can get that work done. Well, I think that the CSWG has its charge. If there is a successor group that needs to be formed and I think there is a conversation to be had on that. And what is its rate, what's its relation to the resident over to the, I think we're called the resident oversight board. What is the relation between their role is it is it that group that's doing it. I mean I think I think I said last time there's a lot of built up a lot of institutional knowledge already with this group. And so seeing some continuity is really important. So, but I don't know what the successor group there's, there's, you know, we have a reparations committee that's going to be established. I think there's some other groups that are being recommended to be established and I think we need to really look at this as a town in terms of what is our structure going to be. Ms. Pat. So, first I want to, you know, thank you, the top manager for the reparation fund. I know your heart is in a good place even though there's a lot, you know, that needs to be done in terms of what CSWG has recommended. The two things that I have, I personally do not think that August is enough time for us to recommend complete our task for Part B. That's not going to happen. That's not enough time. I do not see, I mean, we have very capable CSWG members that I think we need help. I mean, we need to do a thorough dig in on the charge for Part B. So I'm very concerned in terms of timeframe having it done by end of August. That's not going to happen. We don't have enough time. And we do need help. We need, we need an organization to do the research, do the work, because if we just recommend something the way that the town council operates and not offense, you know, they will not take us seriously. We need to be able to back up our recommendation very well. And I don't think, you know, just our committee alone will be able to do it. In terms of the future of CSWG, in the future, I, one thing for the reparation group is solely for Black, that's a Black group. The difference with this group is we are BIPOC group, multiracial group. It's very, very critical. And also the successor of CSWG should be people who are already entrenched in this war to continue. I've heard through Gravevine, other groups who are buying for, you know, if there's no more CSWG, what about their group? So I'm hearing things also through Gravevine, but whatever the town council like you, you know, considering the future, this core group has done incredible amount of work. And we want to see the end, not the end, but to make sure that the work that we've done is being implemented and hold people accountable. So that's all I want to say for now. Thank you, Ms. Pat. I think I had Ms. Ferrera and then Mr. Verney-Jones. Well, I mean, I definitely hear Ms. Pat in terms of what you said. I mean, obviously, if there's a way to kind of go beyond August timeline, you know, I would welcome that, but I know that beforehand Mr. Bartholomew has kind of kept us, you know, strict to the timeline. And I don't want to miss the opportunity. I guess that's the thing. You know, obviously if we can go beyond August, yes, but if we can't, then I want us to be able to, you know, obviously we have to do that with Part A, right? It was a rushed job, as we know it, we should have had like a year to kind of do that, but they didn't give us a year. They gave us, you know, six months or whatever it was. So that's the thing. But Part II, I mean, I hear you, Mr. Barkerman, in terms of the oversight board, but again, there's a lot more, and we need to, and we're going to discuss it because we already had the IFB draft. And then I have a bunch of other areas that needs to kind of be plugged in that we have said at the end of our Part A report that we're going to be looking into. So that has to be plugged into the IFB to report. So there's a lot that needs to be done, and we need to do it. I'm not going to, for me, I'm not just interested on the oversight board. It's the oversight board and all those other things that are very key in terms of APD. And if we don't reach all those other things, we will not have done our job correctly and thoroughly. So I'm very interested in focusing on all of the above. And yes, we do need, we do need the help. We need the consulting help. We do. And we'll spell it out to you once we go over it. We'll share you, you know, we'll send the email over in terms of why it is that we need the consulting help and that why it's going to be key. So my thing for you is how can you find the money so that we can make this happen. Mr. Verna Jones. I appreciate that, Paul, in your mind, the second part of the charge may have framed as the resident oversight board but the charge does refer to recommending policy changes and organizational changes and also refers to our outreaching to the community and finding problems and identifying solutions to them. And I think as you've been hearing from us that oversight board. And I guess the question that I'd like to ask is, if we identify things that could be the mechanism, are we is an IFB the only way to proceed to get help? Where are there ways to hire people on an hourly basis? Are there ways to get three quotes and move forward more quickly? Yeah, my internet may not be that good tonight. But I think our question is both, you know, can you find money but also what's the way forward that would let us, you know, should we be asking for three quotes for something as a quicker way to find a consultant? Or is the IFB process the only one that's available for us to get some help? So no, there are different ways you can procure services. So IFB is one RFP but RFP is over $50,000 and that takes on a different approach and that usually takes a longer period of time. But in terms of, I guess what I'm trying to figure out is, you know, I knew what I had in my mind when I wrote the charge. And so, and this is an advisory to the manager and what I'm looking at is what we can set up this year and what is our capacity as a town to move. And I really feel the urgency that the working group is bringing, which is really good. And trying to match it up with our ability specifically through our police department, our police chief of being able to implement the things that we're recommending. And I think that's the difference here. We want to get things that we can implement and make change. Putting a lot of, I really want to put that, that's where I really want to shift our focus is the implementation, not just, you know, we've spent a lot of time studying things, but I think, you know, I think you've done, you did a great job yourselves actually on the, on the, on the, on part A of the report, we get to the second part we get the resident oversight board. I'm thinking of real tangible things and I may because I'm a manager and, you know, not a politician or something like that but it's, but it's, I'm looking at what can we get in place that we, I feel are really going to make a difference. And I think that, and I think there's a lot more work, just as Miss Ferrara has been saying is that, holy crap, I'm sorry, there's a ton of stuff to be done. And, and all those things that you mentioned are really crucial because I think this, that's the thing that's going to influence that's going to impact people of color the most. I think that I think the Crest program is going to have some impact, but I think the policies are, you know, the oversight board and all that is the next phase. Thank you Miss Ferrara. Yeah, but Mr. Bachman, I mean, again, so, so then what was the point of us spending all the time making the recommendations if then what you all do is just pick whatever it is you think is going to be most important to put into play. You know what I'm saying? I mean, what all the recommendations that we made for Part A, those were all critical and those were all important, based on what the work we did. And then whatever recommendations we're going to be making for Part B, those are going to be all important based on what we're hearing from from the community and what we're hearing from the residents and Amherst and what it is that they need. So kind of just single out the oversight board is okay that's the thing that we're going to put in place that really just showcases then that okay everything else is a waste of time that's basically what you tell me. And that the oversight board is what you always spend time on just like the Crest program is what you always spend some time on because you didn't even fund that fully, but at least you gave some money to it. So okay the Crest program and the oversight board. Okay, everything else is just, you know words on a paper that that's what I'm hearing. Mr. Bachman, if you would like to respond to that and then I will go to another. I know you have other members with their hands up so appreciate that. Yeah, no, I mean I think one of the things as I think about how we implement things is, you know, one of the other recommendations was a DI director, and getting, you know, getting that position that position up and running and involved is really crucial to. I'm trying to figure out how we can manage all these changes that are happening in a relatively short period of time. And getting the right people to help implement them. And right now we're using existing staff but we will have a dedicated. coordinator and a full time DI director who's able to be more owner take more ownership of some of these things as well. Thank you, Mr. Bachman I think we have miss Ellen and then miss Bowman. I think miss moment had her hand up if she wants to go first. Okay miss Bowman. Um, so this continues to be very space for me. You have BIPOC people telling you what they need. And you have non BIPOC people. Picking and choosing what they get just sit with that for a minute. Because I think this community of BIPOC people have spoken so loud and have expressed themselves so clearly. And I watch the meeting from Monday, and I'm listening to a whole bunch of white people. kicking and choosing what feels comfortable for them. This is not a comfortable thing. This whole situation is not a comfortable thing and let me tell you as a person of color, I have never been comfortable. I did not grow up comfortable. I grew up being judged. I grew up being, you know, given little bits and crannies of things when it was convenient for the white people around me. I was just, you know, shame on the town of Amherst, because that's exactly what you're doing. You're picking and choosing what feels comfortable for you. And we have been clear, and we have been very precise about what we need, what the need is of this community. I sat there and I've watched the meeting on Monday and I was like, yo, they are talking about a whole bunch of things that have nothing like literally. And I was like, what's the name was Sarah had bring you all back to to recognize that this is about the BIPOC community that is the first part of this whole thing is about the BIPOC community is not about mental health awareness. It's not about, you know, this and the other. Like, you literally are losing your police department to you mass. Do you realize that. So you're cutting, you're not giving us the funding we need, but you're going to lose your police department to you mass and the crap that those students do on a regular basis. Every semester that they're here, getting, you're getting calls for you mass you getting calls from, you know, and now we're now Amherst is going to have to take care of that. But you won't find us. You won't invest in the in the people that actually live in this town, you invest in students and making sure that those students are being taken care of and being managed and making sure that they're, you know, that zoo over there is being taken care of, but you won't take care of the residents of your town. I don't care how uncomfortable it makes you. I don't care who is like crying in the wind at this point because I've been sitting back crying in the wind long enough. I've watched my people sit back and crying the wind long enough. Get it together. It needs to be uncomfortable. It needs to be in the faces of everybody. You need to put your residents before your students. The police department sat there and was like, look, we don't need all this extra. We don't need we have to deal with all this other stuff these other things. We need this program, even they're saying they need this program. And, and, and it's like, it almost feels like even the police understand that this program is necessary more than the finance committee more than the town manager more than, you know, the town committee. That's what that's what it looks like to me, because the thing is, is that you can go and look at all these other programs and so on and so forth. But at the end of the day, Amherst is very unique. We're very unique. We don't necessarily operate the same, and we don't have the same need. We have community members who like me who come out and speak and then we have community members who don't. And the thing is, is that the community members who have taken the route to go out and speak and tell their stories and tell their experiences. You guys have come, you guys have systematically dismissed them. And then you're going to sit there and pick and choose what you think is best for us. That is literally what systemic racism is about that is literally what it's about is that you, I can tell you that you're hurting me and you will pick and choose Well, this didn't hurt so bad. Oh, you just misinterpreted what, no, I'm on the receiving end of it. It hurts the way I say it hurts, and you need to sit and feel that for a minute. Thank you, Miss Bowman miss Ellen and then missing on a buck. Yeah, so my question for the town manager. I was a little I was very thrown off by the meeting on Monday as well. I was very thrown off that Mary Beth, I think her name was was answering so many questions about different responder models. When the community safety working group has been doing the research for the last six months and working alongside consultants. I thought it was odd that Olympia Washington was brought up as like the model that we're comparing Amherst to I brought that I brought that same model to the groups attention months ago to talk about grants and was told that grants aren't within reach. And after doing some research today that program was started as a pilot but it was started at $1.5 million, which is way more funding than Amherst is willing to give Cress. And additionally on their website, they're under their funding their first suggestion to make alternative safety programs work is to cut the police budget. That's on their website like their official vera behavioral health crisis alternative website. And I just wanted to ask directly. What, like what applications are serving needs to happen to customize this program crest to Amherst, because I heard that loosely being spoken about and I just feel like the CSWG has talked about what's not working and what what will work. Custom for Amherst so I was just a little bit confused about that. And I think again the continuation of this group could bridge the gap rather than continuous forums that happen in Amherst but nothing, nothing comes up them. Thank you, Miss Owen. Miss Pat. So, I got couple text messages and the issue of having reparation leaders to either replace CSWG or be the one. I have people who are not black who just texted me, and they wanted me to ask the town manager that blacks are not the only minority group in this town. So if we are going to use reparation leadership to replace BIPOC, that will be pitting one group to another. And the message I got from my text is don't let that happen. I just, I just wanted to convey that to everybody that will put us to be mindful that minority groups were not fighting against each other. Because Asian American can say where is our reparation. Native American will come Hispanic group and so on and so forth so CSWG needs to be replaced by multiracial BIPOC folks, the people who are currently on it. Thank you. Thank you, Miss Pat. Mr. Backelman. Thank you. So I hope I didn't confuse on that. So I just, the reparations is a separate lane, separate group, separate organization, separate committee that is being proposed to be set up. So not to be confused with what has to happen on the public safety community safety front. So yes, definitely two different things, two different things. I mean, there may be overlap, but maybe not, I don't know. But the intention is not that that there would not be overlap of mission between the two. And from Ms. Oh, and you know, where we are at this point is how now that we want to create and we have funded or when the council votes we will have funding to create a crest program. There are a lot of details to work out in terms of protocols and, you know, hiring practices and all the things that we need to do. And so what I find to have a successful program implemented, which is the goal of our entire team is to involve the people who are, you know, who will be working most closely with it the fire chief, the police chief, the HR finance, all the all the key people. And that's why I'm so thrilled that I said at the beginning is that you are willing to participate as well to get into the nitty gritty about how does it actually set up and work it takes a lot of time and effort to do this it's not going to be an easy task to pull it all together so we have an actual program with people responding to calls. And that's our, our goal. And, you know, I think, you know, you know, I have had experience in this, and doing this kind of work and it takes, it takes time and effort. And I don't think, you know, you know, I think there's, you know, we don't look at one community as the model but we can learn from lots of different communities and from other people. So that's where, you know, I'm about implementation right now, getting the funding in place, which you and getting the vision set which you have done, getting the funding in place, getting the people getting the DEI director in place is going to be a help, a help as well so we have more dedicated time to the work. And then moving forward on it. I guess I would just appreciate going forward if some representation from the CSWG could be at conversations like what happened at the town council meeting, because for me I've never seen Mary Beth in the audience I've never heard her during public comment. And we've been studying community safety and intersectional issues for the last six months. And I do think that if not us maybe the consultants because they are experienced professionals who did the work for us. Yeah, well I think I think we do have to recognize that town officials have some experience as well and that we can bring that to the table as well for training implementation. That's the, I'm sorry. No, yeah, with you. Yes, I understand. I agree. So, I know you have to leave. And I'll be very brief. So what is the reason why the town will not fund the youth program center, and also the BIPOC center because this is directly just like what Fashina had in the reference before. This is what our people, my people are saying, we want. And then people in position of power is saying, we got, we got to pick and choose. So what is the reason for not wanting to fund the two centers. I'm just curious. And how do you think not having a 24 seven crest will even work. I mean, I need help you explaining that to me because I don't, I don't get it is the slap in our face. We said we need a safe place and almost all white town council just ignored and also the finance committee ignore all that that's what we need. We don't have a safe place in this town. Yep. We don't think it was. So I see what you're saying by it was ignored. I think these were new concepts that had not been really digested before. And I think they are now on the table where previously were they were not on the table to have that discussion. So in my mind, we do need a champion of like that's where a DEI director would be helpful to help say take that on and start to say what are the steps necessary to get to that point. You know, identify space identify funding sources all that type of stuff stuff as we get into a proposal for creating something new. So, yeah, I, I, we addressed it in a very sort of way where it was like, yes, it's something that we have to look at, but it hasn't been. Yes, we adopted your right on that. Have you, have you confirmed about creating two departments you said you have to reach out to Boston. I miss that you have to reach out to Boston, something like creating two departments, the press department. Have you done that or no no it's I'm sorry I to create a new department it requires the town council to approve it. It doesn't require anything in Boston. I'm miss Bowman and then Mr Vernon Jones. Um, so, first of all, um, my question is, who's determining what's needed. Because, like, we're saying that we need this but clearly, it's not our choice, like we don't get say what we need. So I just want you to sit with that for a minute. Um, also, you know, one of my really, really big problems with this, like, whole thing with this like this idea of lack of money and you know then it's going to take all this training and this and the other and we're freaking out about that and whatever Do you realize that most of the people who work for all these agencies that are already established are not by pop people. So you're literally just telling my pop people to trust more white people who have already screwed them over multiple times to go ahead and call this number and you're going to have more white people in your business in your life in your everything. Judging you. I just, I'm curious I want to know how that's going to work, because we're not calling police. So why the hell am I going to pick up the phone and call some agency. That's full of white people. I'm just curious because you know I heard a bunch of suggestions about all we can work with CSC what is it. Like, so yes so and service man all that stuff but I walk in the, I walked in the door to those people before and they're a bunch of white people. You know, DCF bunch of white people. And the few people of color who may work there. And they may not like that I'm saying this are token, because you know if they make any ruckus, if they lift, if they raise their voice that they make any scuffle against what the white order is, they're going to get fire or reprimanded or so all the countless other things that are going to happen because all their supervisors and all their everybody's white above them. But do you like, I just don't like, I guess I'm frustrated because I really, really, really, really, really get it so deeply that you have no clue. You have no clue. What it's like to know that there's a service that you should be able to contact. So if you contact that service, you may lose your children, you may go to jail, you may lose your, your, your livelihood on every level. And then add mental health stuff to it, add disability to it, because I'm calling to you as a person with a disability on top of it. Add all that stuff to it and you're just like, Oh, you know, this is getting taken away from me that's getting taken away from me now they want to take my kids now they want to take my food, like, where, like, who's making the term determination, again, like, you guys are policing black bodies on every level. Do you not understand that do you not get that do not play I mean clearly you don't because it's wouldn't even we wouldn't be having this quite a talk I mean we wouldn't be doing this right now, if you really truly in your deepest part of your life understood that understood that if I tell my kids to stop doing something, I automatically know there's a white person there judging me and deciding whether or not they're going to pick up the phone and call DCF. I'm a good mom, my, my kids are go college bound. I know that's in grad school right now. But every day I still look over my shoulder. Every day I have to be aware of every move I make. How I present myself out there in the world, because every single moment I'm being judged. I cannot turn to my children and beat and tell them to cut it out. I know that there's some person who's already ready to pick up the phone and call DCF on me. You want us to trust these people, you want us to put our faith in these people, and you are literally not getting it, you are not understanding it. I can't even find a doctor who's a person of color. Like, I just like, you're not getting it, you are not getting it. The town council does not get it. They are not listening to us they're not hearing us because they don't live it. They can go to a doctor and have a doctor totally understand where they're coming from. They can go to a store and not be followed around the store or a person being completely nice and kind and loving to them in the store. Whereas I would walk in the same store and be like, uh, immediately don't feel like I should be here. Turn around walk out. Are you sure you can afford that? That is the tone in the voice. People of color are saying what they need. Flat out period end of story. The town is going to get itself together and provide what they need. Or they're not. And the thing is, if they're not, then stop wasting our time. Like, at no point have I heard you say, look, this is, this is what I'm, this is what's going to happen. Like, I'm going to provide everything you need. This is my, this is my steps and providing everything you need. But you know what was interesting is one of the things that we have said that we need, and that it seems like there's other support is that the CSWG should continue. And that has been said over and over and over again. And at no point have like, you know what I'm saying, like, you are literally picking and choosing what you think we need. We need the CSWG, we need that this specific thing that we're doing right here, we need to continue doing this. And not only that, but because all of us have invested so much time because you know what, like we can really get into it about details about this and how we're working every week, doing this meeting plus multiple other meeting and what we're getting as a kickback for that like if not kickback or pay for that, what we're getting recognized for and how much time we're putting in how much energy we're putting in, and how other people are not doing this type of work, who are not doing that they don't live this every day. They don't have to live this every day they don't have to think every day about what the next person next the person of color in the house next to them. Probably because it's not one, but aside from that, they don't have to think about what decisions they're making is affecting because you know what reality is, is that I'm looking and I'm like, yeah, I see some of these people on the board. You know the town council, I interact with a lot of people throughout my, you know, my dealings and embers, and a lot of those people like I can't say I've interacted with. I don't know how many of those people actually have people's color in their everyday life I'm not talking about oh I'm having a party when they invite some person, you know my one talking person of color over. I'm not like really have a relationship with a person of color that it had nothing to do with, oh, I'm friends with this person because they're a person of color, just an organic relationship because I have white friends so I have organic relationships with. And then I have white friends that I'm real, really aware of that I am their token person. I am, I just, I'm just going to keep rambling on, but you're not listening. Nobody the town council the finance committee, Mr Bachman you're not listening, you're not listening. You're not listening, you're picking and choosing what feels comfortable. Thank you miss Bowman. Mr Vernon Jones and then miss Farera. Mr Bach, Mr Bachman given the unique composition and roles that the community safety working group plays. And the fact that there are issues directly within our charge that we cannot finish by August. Why are you so resistant to continuing the CSWG beyond the end of August. So when I, when I created the CSWG what I want it was the two address to two things that we addressed one was a alternative responder program and the other is the resident oversight board. You know, there are a lot of other things in the, in the charge, I admit. But those are the two functional things that I was looking at if there is a successor group that you think should be a standing committee, which I think is what we're going to. A good thing to come out of the, as a recommendation as well, but that's where I'm, that's how I've envisioned the work of the community safety working group and I think that was, that was, you know, that's how I've envisioned it when we wrote it last last fall. Could you explain the difference between a standing committee and continuing the CSWG. And I think a standing committee has like ongoing roles and responsibilities that it would and that are defined in terms of what they all actually do it's not just going to be studying things. It'll have, and I think we're looking at the same thing with the energy and climate action committee as well. How are we going to implement and integrate the work into the overall operations of the town. And I think this is a more narrow focus on community safety and maybe it should be. But I really need to leave I am holding up a party, not a party, a group of people. And so, I have to excuse myself. So, thank you. Thank you, Mr. Bach woman. And Mr. Vernon Jones, I'm not sure if you were finished with your comment. I was intentionally brief and I'm finished for now. Okay, thank you, Mr. Vernon Jones, Ms. Ferrara. Well, yeah, Mr. Buckman I guess made the exit when he was he had to and everything, and I guess was best for him so he wouldn't hear what I had to say. But, you know, again, it's just, you know, the resistance is just ridiculous, you know the resistance from the town council, the resistance from the finance committee resistance from Mr. And I mean, it's just shameful. Because, you know, again, we've, we've, you know, done the work. We've put in, you know the time we've brought in the consultant show the data, which is one of the things that they always say show the data, right show the data. It's still the resistance right in terms of putting things in place. Why? Because again, it's systemic racism. It's white privilege. It's whiteness. It's, you know, the things that we've had to deal with since slavery began 400 years ago. Right. And that is what we are dealing with. And so for Mr. Buckman to stay here and say that well when he wrote this charge he was looking for community respondent group and an oversight group then why did he, why did he want us then he already had an idea of what he wanted. How did he know we were going to come up with a community respondent group. You know, we were charged with was charged with looking at different models but he didn't know whether we were going to say to adopt any of those models up to adopt anything. So for me it was kind of, you know, really, I was really upset to hear him say that, you know, which that's what I was going to say if he was here but you can, you can listen to it because it's recorded. How can you say that you were looking for a community respondent and oversight. You don't know what you know you gave us the charge. And we were supposed to do the work here the community and come up with things that are responsive to the residents of Amherst focusing on the BIPOC community. And this is what we came up with. And the second part of the charge is not just on the oversight. The second part of the charge is on all of what is stated on that charge, inclusive of the oversight. Again, the fact that he's not hearing right and the town council finance meeting that everyone else not hearing that CSWG needs to continue, because of the knowledge base that we already have, right, is again the fact then I said it last week to Mr. I said, you know, it's again it's the fear, because they don't want us to continue. Right, they don't want us to continue to push. They don't want us to continue to be truthful to say what it is that needs to happen. Again, it's not about us. It's about what the community is asking us to do. And that's what I keep on telling a lot of constituents a lot of people that come in and talk to me. It's not about me. This is about safety. This is about safety for the for the residents in Amherst, especially a BIPOC residents, and it's about us and stopping feelings afraid. So it's okay for us to feel afraid. But then everybody else can go about their business right. And so now that we brought a plan, and we made, you know, a solid plan with data and everything else to back up. There's still the resistance right because we have to continue to be in fear and continue to not feel safe. And then, you know, they can put this in place and I'll put that in place and it's a or B or C or whatever. I mean, it's just, it's shameful, and it's ridiculous, you know. Obviously, here because, you know, we got to keep the, you got to keep going, you know, got to keep going but but I, you know, I see it. So based on on the other comments that you all have said you all see it too. What's what's happening. It's it's clear as day. I mean it's nothing else be said in terms of what what is happening here and you know for me that the truth is is what it is. So, now it's how are we going to move forward, you know, to continue the fight. Thank you miss for miss Pat. Sorry, you have to unmute. Thank you for that. I'm just wondering if we have any anyone in the audience who may want to speak or something like that if you want to go back to the schedule to the agenda item. Yes. Is that okay with all other members that I go back to public comment we can double back and sure we'll have some overlapping conversation. Okay, so I'm going to go back to the public comment section of the agenda. If any members of the public would like to make a statement, please raise your hand. I will recognize you and ask Miss moist and deterrent on your microphone. I asked that comments be limited to no more than three minutes. The working group will not be responding to your comments but we will listen intently. So it looks like we have Dimitria Shabazz and she has her hand up if you can bring her in please miss moistin. So I just want to once again say thank you to the community safety working group. It's hard work remaining persistent and holding our elected officials and those who are employed on our behalf to hold their feet to the fire. And so I commend you and doing so. And that came up tonight that struck me as areas that I hope you will continue to press and will bring the public into help advocate along with you is, you know, it sounds like because this is a sea change a bit that the town manager admitted that a diversity, equity and inclusion director will be added. I think that is, you know, a step in the right direction because a few weeks ago, that was not something he seemed to include within his narrative. So I think that's a positive move. You are right to question who will be in that position, who is qualified to be in that position what qualifications are needed, the seven generations movement collective, we only had time to outline such a position. But it does need to be fleshed out more. And I think your group is definitely able and qualified to flesh that out. I would look to Cornell's diversity, equity and inclusion certificate program so you could see some of the qualifications that someone of this stature is, you know, on the very minimum. I'm talking the minimum because either it's going to have some background in areas of social and behavioral work but also policy, maybe even law. And it's just circumscribing the bare minimum. They would also need some experience in those areas so I don't want the town to make short shrift of such a position. It is a position that needs qualified applicants and needs a qualified person to really steer this forward in terms of a vision for five to 10 years. That is what modern contemporary towns and cities are doing, because they see, you know, far ahead of them, that this world is changing, and Western Mass will no longer remain this very agricultural, you know, the view of itself, but also very white. That is, that's not going to be for five to 10 years, it's going to be much more diverse. And with that diversity, it will be far richer. And I mean, not only in terms of culture, but financially, because with that diversity brings much more opportunity and creativity so I really hope that you will continue to press them on that. And that the folks that they have in place to say, well, let's utilize the current staff. I think that's really short changing the BIPOC community, so you're right to point that out. The other thing that Miss Pat now I'll finish there had pointed out about the compression of reparations. This is nothing new amongst white communities and folks who are very short sided, they begin to compress everything having to do with people of color. We are a heterogeneous, you know, very diverse within our diversity right it's not just one thing we're never just one thing. And so it's really important that folks understanding that you create the narrative, right, you've already created it, but you continue to pound that narrative which is really important because they haven't heard that here. That, you know, when we talk about reparations, that is a separate issue. And we're talking about African descendant people. We're talking about what's going on with the CSWG, you know, it's like the folks we interviewed. We interviewed BIPOC folk. We interviewed folk, you know, that had different languages as their first language, we interviewed Asian Americans. We interviewed what represents in terms of racial, ethnic and language diversity. We interviewed those folks here in Amherst. And I think it's important if that's the work that you were charged with that you proceed to do that work for those folks and represent them, which is separate from the reparations group the reparations group they're doing their work. So, you know, I am confident that you all will keep those two narratives separate. And it's important that you do so for the sake of the folks in Amherst. Thank you. Thank you, Ms. Shavas. Okay, are there any other members of the public who would like to public comment at this time. Okay, I'm not seeing any other hands is it okay to move forward in the agenda. Okay, I'm going to move to the members reports. This is the time for members to update us on any work or events that are coming up if anybody has anything they would like to share. Ms. Pat and then Ms. Owen. I don't have any update. I don't have any event to share. I do want to bring up, as we all know, a copy of the email that Mr. all roads had sent to the town manager and copy blinded us. And I'm just thinking for myself. Nobody else. Okay, I am not surprised. I don't have any update or roads email because that has been his pattern in this town. He's a good man, no doubt. For younger folks and CSW of younger people in this town. All I need to actually is go back and look at the school committee when he served. The school committee, what his role was that will tell you everything. As a black person as a black parent, when Mr. all roads was in the school committee member. And I trust him enough to go to him to help marginalize students in our school system, because why he aligned himself to the elites of this town, the powerful people of this town, the chamber of commerce, the land owners, the school administration, the white school committee members, members from MS would be very elite in this town. The political mission in this town, you must folks, those are the people he aligned with. So his, his email should not come as a surprise to anybody who knows his record in this town. So that's what I want to say, I am not speaking for anyone, not for a safer group or CSW or for anybody, but this is my direct observation my direct experience with all roads. He's a friend that he knows how I feel about him about his views, his entitled to his opinion, but we would we should not let him distract us. Okay, we should not let him distract us we should stay focused because distraction will happen with this work that we're doing. We need to stick together. Do not get upset if you're not knowing him. That is his record. I've made this known to even my black community. I've made this known to reparation group. If people know what I'm talking about. I had sent a group email to reparation group which I'm a member about my concern. I was not supporting the work we're doing the work we're doing so pause to benefit BIPOC for why will he be the one trying to discredit us, trying to align himself with the powerful people with the town councillors. Whether or not he wants to run for like I don't know what his what what his purpose is, but don't get don't get discouraged. It can be frustrating. He's done it before this is not the fourth time. He did not help, you know, BIPOC kids who were being overly disciplined in the school system. He was not helpful with special education students. He was not helpful with low income students who are getting into a lot of issues in the school system and I can go on and on and on. This is his record. Thank you. Thank you, Ms. Miss Owen. I just wanted to share with the group I know it was in the packet that the CSWG was invited to race, race amity day this Sunday at four o'clock. Ms. Walker and I if you are all okay, we'll write a small speech to kind of talk about our vision that our vision for the recommendations and the Amherst that we envision, and we'll also make a call to action. This is going to be really powerful and they set us up on the agenda right after they go through the town's proclamation. So if you guys are all good with that. And I also just wanted to say, I touched base with Ash Hartwell and he really encouraged, if you guys are free to come and to join the open forum if you're comfortable. Thank you, Ms. Owen. See the invitation on the screen. Thank you, Ms. Moisten. This is invitation. You can register for the event, but you do not have to register to attend. So if you guys have availability, I think it's just from four to five on Sunday, and Brianna and I do plan to be there on behalf of the CSWG. I believe Ms. Ferrera than Mr. Vernon Jones and Ms. Bowman. I think I think Mr. Vernon Jones was before me. Did you want to go before me, Mr. Vernon Jones. Okay. All right. So, um, yeah, I just wanted to talk about Mr. Road and and I know Ms. Pat, obviously, you know you're saying don't get angry but I'm at this point I am angry, because obviously the time I was disappointed and sad. But this time, I mean, because after the first one, I, you know, obviously people reached out to me I reached out to people, and I was really kind of like and I communicated to him really directly to as he was through, because when I put a Facebook post to say for people to attend the town council meeting, you know, when we were going to the CSWG, and then he started dialoguing on that, you know, being against, you know, our recommendations. And so at some point he even said that he has sent an email to us and and I said in the in my response to him I was like, that wasn't okay, you didn't even talk to us in the first place and then you just go and you send that email to the town manager and to the certain members of the town council on the eve of the finance committee. I mean that was not okay that was very negative that was a terrible action on the I basically told him that and then he goes any sense this other the second email. No, I'm really upset with him, you know, and I'm someone that's very patient to a certain degree and and I call him a friend to and he actually did help my son out. And he knows that he helped my son out when he was in the town committee because there was an issue he was dealing with, you know, years ago on Fort River, and he did help out and, you know, like at least he stood for him I mean it still didn't help in the final outcome. But he did stand up for him in that situation which I told him I was always grateful for him for that, but for him to do this right for him to be public publicly come out against us without talking to us without reaching out to any member, any of us and I've been here my friends and I know he's friends with you miss Pat and stuff like that to not have the decency to come and talk to any of us first and just share your opinion and everything just to keep sending these emails. It's just, just terrible, you know, I am angry, you know, and, and, you know, I don't think he really cares at this point but you know because he doesn't understand it as a black man who has been in this in this community even though I've never really agreed with a lot of his politics for all the years, but it's a message that he's sending right when he keeps on sending these messages towards a group that's majority, you know, by park, those groups that's pretty female, and he keeps on sending these messages is, you know, for me, I'm really upset and, you know, but you're right, I'm not going to be distracted by him. We have to stay focused stay focused on what we're doing. But my thing is, I don't even want to waste my time. I we wasted time last time, you know, trying to respond to him on the eve of the finance committee when we're trying to prepare for the finance committee. This time, I really don't care about responding to him, you know, he's a non entity at this point for me. Thank you miss for Mr Vernon Jones. I just wanted to report that I had an opportunity to have a conversation with a member of the Town Council this past week and we agreed it was off the record so I won't say who it was but I thought you might be interested to know that at least one member of the Town Council was very clear that whatever level program we get this year she's committed to the funding going all the way through 2523 as well, that we won't be in her mind when the town needs to make a commitment not to evaluate the program being two weeks of experience when we're writing the next budget. So I found it helpful that and she was willing to talk to others about that idea. The other issue that she raised with me was that she hope that the, our second report would address the issue of the lack of trust and fear between the BIPOC community and the APD board and she got the information that there's this fear and lack of respect and trust. And she said you know Cress is great at what we do the contact between BIPOC community and the police department, but it won't do anything for the level of fear and mistrust and disrespect. You know, again she didn't speak for the Town Council and I certainly wasn't speaking for our group, but she communicated an interest in what our group's recommendations are about what else can be done to address the level of fear and between the BIPOC community and the APD. I just wanted to report that to us. I present to our members, to our viewers, and to everyone joining Jones, Ms. Bowman. So I did want to comment about the letter we got from Mr. Ebrode and I think that I don't really care. It's very clear it was very clear to me in that letter who he aligned himself with. Um, and as much as my initial feeling was anger and like disappointment. It was for me very typical. It was very typical of, and you know, I do get that, you know, there's a saying, you know, it's something like a hit dog will bark or yell for whatever. Um, so if this doesn't apply to you, then you're not going to have a problem with what I'm saying, but it's very typical of certain people of color in this in this community. Where they don't want to step on people's meaning white people's toes. So what they do is they basically put a lot of effort into disbanding discrediting taking apart the voice of marginalized communities. And they do this because they are trying to align themselves with the non marginalized communities. And being very calculated about how I'm saying this, don't see him out there. Interacting, working with involving himself in the communities of people of color, who are marginalized in this community. I see him, and when I've seen him, and even down to when I was introduced to him had nothing to do with people of color. And we have to remember and we have to recognize that there's always going to be somebody who's shucking and jiving to keep things happy and peaceful. And that's all I see this as. I feel that yes, absolutely. We, this definitely needs to be moved on from, but it needs to be called for what it is, it's a bunch of shucking and jiving to keep the white people happy. That's what it is. He is not in any way shape or form. He is not, he's doing just the same thing. He's a he is listening to the white people of the community. He is feeling and understanding whatever for whatever reason the white people of this community he is not looking at what is really going on to the point that someone that from a family member of someone he actually like really the family of he respects went through it with Amherst PD, and he still can't even see why what anything he said is problematic and this is somebody who you know this is a family I know he respects Tyler, but he can't see that. So, you know, it is really important as we move through and we try to get these are get our charges Matt get our get the require the they really should be requirements but get the voices of the BIPOC community heard and get these charges push forward is that we really do need to keep our eyes open for people like him, because they are out to destroy us they are out to make us out, like make our voices. Unheard because what happens is that white people hear a voice like him, and they're like, they belittle us, the people who are actually experiencing it, they belittle us and they look at us and they're like, it can't be that bad because he's not. He's not aligning himself with them. He doesn't feel the same way so it can't be that bad. And the thing is, is that really what he needs to do is sit down and shut his mouth and really look at and hear what his people what people of color people were the same skin color is him. People who have similar skin color is him are saying, look, this is my reality, and my reality is valid. And he needs to stop discrediting other people of color, when they're saying, this is what needs to happen, because that is exactly how systemic racism works. It works because it gets other people of color to just to try to discredit. You know, voices of people of color who are saying the status quo was not working. The status quo was not fair, the status quo is not. And he's like boy, you know, he's like one of those like why made it and I'm doing good so, you know, it doesn't work that way. It doesn't work that way. It doesn't. And so we need to be, we need, even though we need to like, not focus on him, we need to be well, well aware of him. Well aware of the thing, because everything that we say, he is out there talking to other white people and telling them the opposite. He is telling them that you're doing a good job. That's just enough that which we all know is not. And so we really need to keep that in the back of our minds as we move forward and try to push the important things that we need to have going forward. We really need like literally like literally I saw his letter. The recent one. And the first thing I thought of was, y'all are gonna be mad at me for saying this, but the first thing I thought of was the Django on chain, and that black dude, who was willing to take a bullet for the white dude, you know what I'm saying like the, the, he was the killer or whatever. I can't remember who the actor was, but that's not even a point but you get where I'm going with it. That's what that's the vibe. That is the vibe. And I'm, we got to keep an eye on him. We got to keep an eye on him we got to be a paying attention because he's out there. Absolutely trying to be little what we're doing and what we're trying to make happen. That's just my vote. Thank you miss Bowman. I don't have a personal connection with Mr Rhodes, but I just wanted to say that we did send out the initial response. And he did reply to that and did have a brief conversation with miss oh and I believe and had wanted to arrange a time where he could talk to us directly. He was very persistent in it happening on the exact day that he sent the email to us so it didn't end up happening anyhow and if everybody else is in agreement that we shouldn't respond again. Then I'm okay with that but I just wanted to make sure that that's what I'm hearing from the group at this time that we don't want to continue to respond to his emails. So, I just want to say couple things just not just not for him alone, but when coaches speak on behalf of CSWG, it would be nice, you know, to let us know that, you know, you know, this happened, or this is what we're planning to do. It's not that we're going to like, you know, stop coaches, but for him to want to talk to two or three and it's a great, great thing that you guys, you know, didn't do it because it should have come to us and said, you know, he responded to our email. You guys should have sent that email to all of us. He was disgusted and said, okay, go ahead and, you know, meet with him up now. We want, you know, him to come to us because what this guy is going to do is probably tip what you guys said, you know, your meeting. So we stay and use it against in a both of you. So it's not to be trusted when it comes to BIPOC issue. I've made that known to everybody. He's not doing it. He's not coming from a place to want to understand the work we're doing. Obviously he has not taken the time to study all the hard work we put in here based on his email. I can tell that he doesn't get it. And you know what is very ironic about his email? This is a guy who worked actually in mental health, mental, you know, in disability built as well. And then his questioning press program. Are you kidding me? I mean, when I first read his email, although I wasn't surprised. I was just scratching my, you know, my head. This used to be his field, you know, behavioral health. And I know he has a very impressive long career and everything that I'm not even going to support inviting him to talk to us. I'm not interested for us to waste our time to respond back to him. This is a letter that he sent to the time manager and he blind copied us. I just wanted to speak my mind publicly today. You go on YouTube. It will go down if anybody wants to listen. You know, I am known for calling people out. And when I, when I go around, it's okay for people to call me out too, but I'm not going to mince words. I'm not going to bite my tongue. People know me for that, that I will speak my mind. I'll call people out. And I think maybe that's why this group is really challenging for some people because they don't realize that by God's making all of us are very strong wills. We speak our mind. We're strong advocate. We want what is best for our Bible community. And it came as a surprise to most people because that's what I'm hearing. They did not know, especially our young folks will be as vocal, powerful, intelligent and are spoken as they are. And so we're a threat. CSWG is a threat. They want to get rid of us. You know, that's the elephant in the room. It's not because our charge is ending. They want to get rid of us. They want to get rid of us. But guess what? If they get rid of CSWG, we need BIPOC affairs committee. And this group of people should continue. So that's what I want to say. Thank you. Thank you, Miss Pat. Okay. And so, oh, Miss Bowman, did you have your hand up? So at this time I would like to move to the discussion of our press release. If you could pull that up, Miss Moisten, please. Miss Pat. So, has anybody read the news article? So what do you guys think? I thought the article was fair. Even though it's not exactly, I wanted to, I was hoping I would read comparison of, you know, budgets from other programs there. But I don't think they published this. Am I immune? No, no, I hear you, Miss Pat. Which article are you referring to? I think online yesterday Gazette had, Scott had the reporter had written something about our press release. Nobody read that? No, I didn't. Yeah, I didn't read the article itself. I didn't see it either but I'm trying to put it up here now. The thing that I was saying I read was what you had sent to us. Okay, that's an article actually. I read that yesterday online. I subscribed to online. Okay, yes, I think I found it, it's by the Gazette and it's titled the backers of police alternative and Amherst push for full funding. Is there a way to put this to send it to Miss Moisten so we can put it on? Yes. What did he do, Miss Pat? I like it. I like the article. It was good? Yeah. Okay. And he didn't kind of twist anything around? Well, that's his own writing. I wanted him to discuss, so convert that we're not asking for too much money, but you know, it's a lot better than, you know, it could have been worse. I mean, does somebody want to read it or not? Sorry, I was going to send this to Miss Moisten to see if she could pull it up. Because the boat is coming up on the 21st, right? Council. I guess the thing that I wanted to ask Alicia and Brianna was were you all able to reach out to the town councillors too? Um, we have not been in conversation with all of the councillors yet. We've had brief conversations with the councillors from. Sorry. You found it. Okay. Thank you. From with Pat and Shalini. I'm sorry. I'm trying to remember which district they're from. District five. Yeah, so we've had brief conversations with the councillors from district five. Okay, so hang on. Let me, let me just find exactly who the two councillors from five. Darcy Dumont. And Shalini. Yes. I apologize. And can you see the article? Yeah. Thank you. Please let me know when you want me to continue to scroll. Miss Moisten, is there a way to like email it to everybody? I can probably email the link to everybody. Yeah. Okay. Why don't we do that to save time? Okay. So what I've done is I forwarded this, our press release, the one I sent to everybody. So people in my network, I also sent to Indy. The weekly newsletter that people get on weekend. I'm asking, you know, people to also post on Facebook as well. So, and, you know, whatever we can do to make our last push, you know, before 21st, would be very helpful. Okay. And we're asking to appeal to the town council to reject the budget and to keep CSWG, well, accept the budget, reject the budget, you know, fully fund our recommendations and keep CSWG in place, right? Because that's how I want to keep on putting on my social media. Okay. I would like to also just pose a question to the group in light of Mr. Bauchleman's comments from earlier. One of the reasons that he stated that he wasn't interested in continuing the CSWG is because he needed a long term standing group. So I heard some conversation about like a successor group or all of those other things. And I'm wondering if we can, if we would be interested in just asking them to make the CSWG, the long standing committee. Ms. Pat. I think the name itself sounds very temporarily, you know, working group. It sounds like a temporary something. What I would like to request, you know, you know, to the town council and also to the town manager is to keep our group that we can toy around a different name. So, multi-racial is fine, because we have Ms. Arroz-Venom Jones. So they, yeah. I think one of the things we should do, because we have so much work we're doing now, is to even come up with what that successor group will do. You know, I've written some some stuff down just to myself. What I think, you know, is lacking in this town. We have a lot of committees. We don't have any committee that really walk around, or, you know, that focus on BIPOC issues. We're going to have a DEI department, I get that. The successor group should also be to support the DEI department, to support Cresc program, to push for redistribution of resources in this town, who are making powers in this town, who are the influencers. So how many BIPOC people are on the table, making decisions for the whole resident. So our group, that group becomes a watchdog, like pointing out how is this, how is the town revenue benefiting BIPOC community. You know, how, because we have, the money is not the issue, it's the people making decisions. You know, where is our money going to. It's my interest, you know, in that successor standing committee or whatever they want to call it, because I don't see, I mean, my dream will actually be for this, for that standing committee to be as powerful as planning board. The next town council, the next powerful group in this town committee is the town planning. They have a lot of power. I would like that kind of power for the oversight board and for the standing whatever group CSWG will be replaced with. So we should not give up, we should keep pushing, we should solicit support from the community. We're not going anywhere. I think. Thank you, Miss Pat. Mr. Vernon Jones. A long term, maybe that the best way to get there is for the new DEI director to request such a committee. And I think we could play a role in helping that person understand the need for creating a powerful committee. I like your idea in the short term of continuing the CSWG with a new title as the standing committee. There's a lot of transition and public safety community safety alone that's going to happen in this year. And it would be great. I don't know if the town's ever had a committee like this group, and it would really be a shame to lose it. And I wonder if you and Breonna are talking to town counselors. If you could sound them out, I mean, not, not that you need to sell each of them on it, but sound them out on what, what would they think of continuing this group because I'm not sure the town council is as resistant to our town manager as I don't know, but it'd be, it'd be good to know that if you can get some sense of. I know these one town counselor said to me, so it seems like continuing the CSWG is the simplest thing to do and, you know, doesn't require a huge budget funds. So whether that's widespread on the council or not, I don't know, but it'd be interesting if you can find some of that out in your conversation. Thank you, Mr. Vernon Jones, Ms. Ferrara. I think Ms. Bowman had her, her hand up, you can go ahead, Ms. Bowman, and I'll go after you. Um, so I actually kind of agree. Um, with Mr. Vernon Jones, um, Okay, so like why couldn't we continue and then, and I can't remember the director's title. Um, but the director of the diversity, diversity inclusion. Okay, so whoever is whoever's appointed in that position. Why can't they potentially kind of, um, kind of take over and facilitating our group continuing, you know what I'm saying like, like, because what, what I'm concerned about what's happening is that you're going to get a whole new flood of people who are going to try to start from square one. And that's one of those things that happens in Amherst is like, you start a committee and then the committee only has a certain amount of time and then when the certain amount of time is over then you get a new committee and the new committee starts all over again like, all over again that's like redefining the same thing in diff using different words. I can't remember what it's called in school when you say the same thing over and over again but you use a different word to describe it. I don't know Mr. Vernon Jones you might remember, but um, that's what I feel like, like, I just described it perfectly, whatever the word is. But it's like, it's like, you know, this conversation has been had for 15 plus years at the minimum, you know I'm saying I guess a minimum. And, you know, Miss Pat said it from early on she was like, we had a group, it just assembled, we had another group it just assembled there were all these groups that just started up and they just disappeared. We have a group of people who are committed to doing this work. And it's like, yeah, we're just only giving you this amount of time and then we're just going to disassemble you you know I'm saying and it would be like, I would advise the person coming in as a diversity inclusion person to be like, Okay, I'm taking all the people from the CSWG, and all of those people are going to be part of this committee and then we're going to, we're going to add more people if need be but you know, or people want to be but like in the meantime, all the people like even though the quote CSWG is not exactly, you know, not has that doesn't have that title anymore. Oh, we're keeping them running. We're keeping them going because they already have investment in seeing this stuff be taken care of. And, and so it's like, I think part of the issue that we're looking at right now is that we don't know who this person, this entity is going to be. And so, all we're hearing is that we're done as a group, but there's this new entity that's going to come along and you know, save the world and we're like, um no I'd like to actually see the work that we've been putting in actually come to fruition so No, so I put it out there in the world in the universe that look, if you find yourself in this role, you absolutely needs to be saying hey I want everybody from the CSWG to be offered to be part of my committee because this committee, you know they already have a well standing strong structure. That's just my like that's because what I'm thinking because I keep feeling like, like, it's just vague. Like, we keep getting a big information and it's like, it's like, it's like, they don't really understand that big information. It makes me less trusting, because I'm already less trusting of the system, but then to get vague information like and get sorry to get my five year old just ran into the room and was like, really excited about a blow up ball. Um, a beach ball, excuse me a beach ball. Um, so, you know, but I feel like, if we it. Okay, so this tobacco man came in and was like, look, I'm just, you know, yes, the CSWG is no longer going to exist. But my intent is to put the people from CSWG in this other position, or at least offer them this other position, I think there would be a little more trust in whatever he's trying to do because I'm still not totally clear. I think there would be a little more trust in it, because it would be like, okay, you're not just disamble, just dismembering our work. And we're telling you we're not done like here like here we go we're not we're telling you that this work is not done. And we're telling you and you're not listening, you know what I'm saying like in just to be devil's advocate maybe he is listening and maybe that's his intent but like crappy job of like, getting that intent, like, you know, I'm saying like, I don't know, I don't know, I'm just trying to be devil's advocate I'm trying to be also I'm a tend to be a relatively positive person about life and people were, you know, try to be like look, you know, meet people where they're at and whatnot and like, like I get there's a whole lot of brownness that he's not going to get because he's not brown but like at the same time. Um, you know, I do, you know, I do want to be like, okay, you know, maybe like I want to keep a door open so I'm not like totally shut off but like, I am mad I'm mad because like, if that's what his intent is he should have been, he should be honest with it and not like, leave us, you know, in a place of being like, I don't like thinking the worst of people. Um, and he's really definitely leaving me in a place to feel in the worst of him. So, um, you know, that's, that's my little, that's my little back of the head like I'm holding this face. I'm hoping he does a good job and he says hey, you're the person the person and then you need to make sure these people are involved and you know I'm hoping so that's just my little no I'm not blowing up the ball. But I'm, no, I'm on a meeting. Um, sorry. Yeah, my whole comfort, my whole, I'm gone. I'm done. I can't thank you. Kid distracted me. Thank you, Miss Bowman. Miss Ferrera. Yeah, I mean I was hearing everyone and I think that obviously a lot of good ideas. My only thought though is that, that if we wait for the di, you know, one that's going to take a long time to we wanted to take enough time to find a qualified person like Miss, like Dr Dmitry Shabazz pointed out that we really need to take our time in terms of the job description and making sure that is adequate and full recruitment and making sure that they that that this director has the coordinate in place and also an administrative assistant because they don't even have that remember we had put that in our recommendations, they didn't put that in, and that that department is going to have resources to be able to do the work because obviously di director without resources without the power without the way with all it's not going to be able to be effective so anyway so that's going to take time that's basically my kind of bottom line on it. So to kind of wait for the di to then put together the structure my thing is this going to be a gap. So my, my, you know, and I have been kind of consistent with that is that basically CSWG and me in the beginning right when I got into this I wasn't even sure all right I thought okay see that was you we do it up until our end of our charge but it became very clear to me right when I was in the town and and a lot of these people in power are resistant to putting these things in place. It became very clear to me that there is a need for CSWG to continue, because if not these recommendations, all of our recommendations will not be put into fruition. So for me that's the thing I don't want it to be a gap, because we need to just seamlessly continue until yes until when if there's a new, a new group to flourish from this. That's fine. But until then, CSWG needs to continue in terms of the name I think it would probably be good to kind of still keep a part of the name because people already you know, think of CSWG and they think of us right so if we change it at this point, without all the recommendations being in place, that can also lose some traction. What I hear you like maybe to do, you know, community safety, standing committee or community safety committee or whatever so that it turns into a committee as opposed to working group which is temporary right. But, but anyway so so those are my thoughts about it and I think obviously we need to still keep mulling and thinking about it but I think we want to make sure that we don't have a gap because I'm pretty sure that if there's a gap. That would be that there won't be a group until sometime six months a year later or whatever if it ever happens. The other thing though too because I'm seeing the time is about the proposal for the consultants and we haven't touched based on that so I just want to make sure that we don't forget to do that. Thank you so much for I just would like to also hear from Miss Pat. I'll be very brief because I know, you know, we've run into like two hours already almost. So a couple things I hear Mr. Ross about having whoever the be I to establish the group. God, I will say yes, however, I don't think I've made myself clear enough. I feel that a group like ours will be a great marketing tool when we're recruiting to say that it's a strong BIPOC committee, a group that is really committed in diversity, equity and inclusion. If I'm a candidate, for example, know about something like that I'll be wow this committee is very strong they're really serious they want you know things like that I think we should think about it as one benefit is as a recruiting tool. There's no guarantee that we will get people locally it would be great if we can get you know we can hire local people that would be wonderful. But what if we have you know strong candidates from out of state even who don't know much about our mess but maybe they will read up for the interview. What if that that the candidate that everybody's excited about, turn out to be somebody like our roads and said, I don't want this group. I'm not creating that. What if this person, you know, is great and coming and is dealing with only white administrators around her or him. And he or she then become part of the status quo in town that are so many what if what if what if so that should not be any gap in time. From CSWG to whatever the another group. I know what you're saying Ms. Ferrara but you know, name is very powerful. The standing committee in my thinking has to encompass many things. Committee safety is wonderful, but it should go beyond that. I think I didn't buy Park is it's good. Something that people will say, Oh this group. Okay. All about, you know, they want to measure that equity is happening something like that very, very powerful committee safety means nothing. You know, I mean I'm not just dismissive what you're saying but I think it's something that everybody have to brainstorm and come up with very strong powerful name for the succeeding committee. I think I also want to say is that CSWG should definitely be part of the hiring process, like we should be able to submit questions to the DEI candidates. We should have some of our representative two or three people to be part of the hiring committee we should have huge involvement in the hiring process. I also see the standing committee to also play similar role with the Crest program. I don't think we should have the oversight board. You know, you know, in the supervisor over sick press because police department is a lot of fun. That will, that will overwhelmed whoever decide to join that, you know, oversight board, I think they should only focus on a PD the way I see oversight is accountability for a PD. I see this standing committee to be named something as a group that will support press program DE department. We should have a structural BIPOC center, youth empowerment, all that stuff ensuring that BIPOC folks are getting, you know, equal share of resources in this town, and so on and so forth that's the way I say it. We should not assume that DEI that gets hired will automatically, you know, assemble some somebody because we're going to have people like our roads that will tell the DEI and said, you know, I've been a black leader in this town for a long time. Forget about CSWG, I criticize them, they don't know what they are doing. So we have to have something in place and market our group as a resource to whoever gets this job. Who wouldn't want to apply then if they know that they have support because I remember Alisha Brewer, the council member who said that we hire people of color they go. Of course they live because they don't have the support. Our group will be one of the standing committee, I hope, you know, will be there to support people of color in high power, even lower power too. I haven't even touched, you know, the school system and everything, but I want the level playing field to be the same. I know it can happen. Thank you. Thank you, Miss Pat. And then I just wanted to say a couple of things just in light, because I would like to move to the next thing on the agenda which would be a strategy for the second part of our charge, but it also ties into the next item on the agenda which is the IFB in the second part. And so I think that like right at this moment we, we still don't have confirmation that funds will be available for us to use to execute the second part of the IFB. And I'm not sure if everybody had a chance to view Mondays council meeting, town council meeting, but the discussion really seemed like that that was not going to be a possibility for us to get funds to complete the second part of the charge. And so I'm wondering if we want to move forward with other aspects until we can get another time to speak with the town manager I'm hoping he'll be available for our meeting. Next week, but I think we still need a bit of clarification as to what exactly we're going to be able to do and exactly how much time we're going to have Miss Ferrera. Yes, one. Can you because I didn't hear the Monday meeting. So if you could just like, say, specifically what they said in terms of the budget for that. But even besides that, even I want to hear what they say but besides that though I think we still need to press forward and just kind of, you know, update this IFB and and submit it to the town manager. They still have a conversation with him and they're like, this is what we need. You know, as well as what Miss moison brought up last week, which is we still continue to do our work, you know, obviously it's not like we're going to stop doing our work going to continue to do it, but still keep pressing for the consultant. Yes, because obviously we saw how important they were for the first part of the charge. So why is it that we wouldn't have the same, you know, you know, people available to be able to assist us with second part of our charge which is equally as important and that's what I think the town manager is just understanding, you know, is that that is equally as important as a first part of our charge. So, yeah, back to my original question. What, what did they say specifically, but hopefully we could still press on. So, most of the conversation regarding our recommendations was was surrounding funding for our recommendations and so there was the question of continuing the CSWG which it's a little bit hard because there were no definite answers given to anything it's kind of this dance around they do whenever a question is asked and nobody actually says the answer to any question, but that leads me to believe that the answer will be no because the funding is still being questioned and nobody's giving any direction and we're coming to the deadline. It's very telling of the intentions and the urgency that is behind the actions that are happening and the people that need to make this happen for us because we can't just make funding appear. And so there's there's been extension extensive conversation regarding the funding specifically for the press program program. I'm interested in and cutting further cutting the police budget to fund it so they've been instructed to find funds outside of the police budget specifically to help fund this. There was a lot of talk about how they're only funding it for a half of a fiscal year be just because of the way that the budgets looking and then they are looking at funding for next year and fiscal year 22 which is very complicated because that's when all the capital investment projects are due to start. So there actually was a lot of concern about how this funding will even continue for the next fiscal year. Sorry I took notes on this but they're kind of all over the place I'm trying to browse through them and see what's important to your question that you asked. I don't know if I can get feel free to to fill in if there's anything that I'm missing here. So I'm gathering that you're saying that they wouldn't be funding us for the consulting, because since they're not going to be done during the other. My question was just that there's really not any funds available. There was discussion of being able to assess revenue but then that revenue not being available to use for our charge until fiscal year 23. Actually, if there is revenue available for that year for it to be used for looking into things like more responders that they don't think that that would even be able to be assessed until fiscal year 23. So yeah, there were there was a lot of. I would highly suggest if you guys have the time to go back and watch the meeting that one as well as the finance committee meeting where they did pass the motion to instruct the town manager to add to more positions and to also report back with funding options. There was a lot of discussion specific to our group that may be helpful for us to know moving forward and it's kind of hard because it's a there's a lot being talked about with us not there. There was a lot of questions comparing us to other towns who are doing similar things and they were being answered by Mary Beth so she answered a lot of questions surrounding the implementation of the program. Mary Beth again, Mary Beth again. Um, so she is part of the implementation team she I think was the director of the senior center. She has a background in social work and so. I know. Okay, she was a social work. Yeah, she answered a majority of the questions that came from the town council in regards to our program. There was a lot of discussion about outsourcing the program because of the success in other places, because then we would kind of eliminate the, the financial need that would come with the training and hiring if we outsource it to people who are already trained to do these kinds of things. So that was the discussion that was happening. At the Monday meeting. And so, I mean, it's just very discouraging. I can't lie there. We did have some support from council members. There were council members who did bring up things like why is it still being bunched as a social service when it should be community and there were council members who did voice those concerns but generally overall the discussion was that the funding is very scarce and we don't know where we're going to find it from where it's going to come from and also for it to not come from the police budget. And I say something else that and this is part of the reason why I'm sorry I apologize if you buy jumped in front of, but I'm afraid I'm gonna forget this. The woman Sarah. I can't remember her last name but she actually had to bring the focus back to BIPOC communities, because they started getting into really talking about how like disability mental health like they started talking about those things. Which, which, even though I know by community struggles with some of those things, we have to recognize that it moves us out of the out of the focus. Because when you start talking about disabilities like when you start talking about homelessness, you know, it, it takes a focus off of what we're dealing with and what we're trying to rectify is systemic racism, and how totally disproportionately, you know, BIPOC people, especially black people are treated within this country and so one of the members Sarah was like look, we're talking about all this other stuff but this is what we need to be talking about and she really did try to, you know, round it back in and be like, you guys you guys are taking you guys are literally taking the focus off of who the focus should be on. I had to really commend her for that. Um, but one of the question, another question that you know when when watching this was like listening to a whole and this is why I said what I said is listening to a whole bunch of white people determine the need of people of color, the need of people that they have they don't walk in their shoe. They don't really have it's like telling a person, you know, who has a broken foot, you know just just try walking on it. You know, some people are able to walk. I have a friend who broke her foot and walked on it for a whole month. And not everybody could do that not that's not a thing for everybody so I that's one thing that really came up. And, you know, the other pieces with the outsourcing is that who are we outsourcing it to. We're not outsourcing it to people of color outsourcing it to a group of white people. So, you're going from what feels like an unsafe situation to an other unsafe situation and that's the that's what I was like really trying to convey, because that I that's information that I was like coming in my head when I was watching, I was just like, oh my god, like you literally want to outsource it to otherwise. So, that's it. I apologize again. No worries miss Bowman. I believe it may have been Mr Vernon Jones miss Owen and then miss Pat. Yes, no worries and jumping in front of me anyway. I think it is on the second part of a charge. I think we should still ask for it. I think we should put a whole lot of energy in there. I think it's key that we decide we're going to go ahead or our charge as to the best we can do the parts we think are most important. And I would caution against using the second IFB that we wrote that was written way back in March. I have a lot of dates. And I would ask that we try to combine that with the list of agenda items that I propose that's in the packet today. And that for next meeting if there's anything missing in that list. Let's get that out in the open and get a list that includes everything we want to do. And I think that's a recommendation on by the, and then let's, let's get to work on it. We'll ask for help, but I think we need to get to work on ourselves as best we can. Thank you, Mr Vernon Jones miss Ellen. Yeah, I just want to say, in addition to everyone's comment about what happened at the meeting. I think that's another theme that I kind of saw is a lot of council members are interested in other things besides the resident oversight board. I genuinely think that's the town manager's own agenda, but council members are interested in us looking at other areas. So I think that with me and miss Walker reaching out to council members and hoping to meet in person I think we'll have a, I hope it can apply some sort of pressure so that we can get the help to do those things. Thank you so much miss Pat. So, couple things I was going to suggest that the same subgroup that, you know, worked on the IFP had a, if we can get together and do the IFP, the part B, I agree with Mr Ross about we should, you know, revisit like we shouldn't do that much because some of them, some of them have been addressed a little bit like the oversight but there are other, you know, things that has come up since then. I definitely figured out, you know, themes or topics we want to be working on while we still press on getting that help with consultants. One of the things I was thinking is complaint process. When people are wronged by the police, what is the process? At least it's something that we can start working on. I mean that's a whole, you know, huge in itself, but we shouldn't be discouraged because they say there's no money to pay for another consultant. Just because it had, you know, something that will benefit BIPOC, we should not buy into what they're saying, we should just, you know, create that and submit to the manager and said, you know, this is what we need help with, you know, is my thinking. In terms of non-profit, and I know this will directly impact my business, but I do business with others people. Let me ask you guys. If you have, you know, when the town puts out the press position, guess who is going to lose? Some of these non-profit people because some of their staff will prefer working for press. So it will make sense that some of them will be suggesting to the town that they can contract out-press so that they will continue to marginalize BIPOC folks that work for them. We don't want any competition. They're even struggling with staffing as we speak, you know, with the COVID and everything. And then the town council is even thinking about contracting out for the sake of money. Are you kidding me? When it comes to BIPOC stuff, all of a sudden there's no money. What about the free cash, the extra? There is money is the will. It's who is making the decision. I will not support non-profit taking over press. Like Tashina stated, it's like, from police that we're afraid of and don't trust, to white-led organizations, services in their CHD and so on and so forth. And we just wasted our time for several months doing this work only for the almost all white town council and white town manager and the people, the person you guys are ignoring that has a lot of power and you're done. You may not want to, I don't want to say that, the finance director. It's similar to special education. Okay, when it comes to marginalized groups, this finance director will say we don't have any money. Because marginalized group will not do anything to him. Guess, you know, people he answers to people that looks like him who are powerful. He has made millions from his salary to us and then all of a sudden there is no money to do BIPOC stuff. We shouldn't only be hammering on the town manager and the town council. The finance director has incredible amount of power in how money is dispensing this town. I know so because I have children in that field. Being a finance director is a big deal. And this guy has no interest in BIPOC people are special education people. I know what I'm talking about. So we should not just focus our attention to only town manager and the and the and the town council is the point I'm trying to make. I'm not saying that it's no money but they have in a country reserve. He made mistakes when he was presenting or I forgot about this item I forgot about this I miscalculated, but he doesn't miscalculate when it comes to a project that involves powerful people golf course, another stuff. Thank you miss Pat. So, I agree I mean I think we should absolutely continue our charge I just wanted us to keep that in our minds the types of conversations that are happening, just moving forward, because I think it matters because it impacts our work a lot and it's, it's been hard for me as a coach to make sure because I haven't always been able to be at the meetings, and then I feel like I'm missing really important things that makes it hard for me to like guide these conversations in a way that I feel like I should. If I don't know what's happening on it within the town council and with the finance committee and with the town manager because they are having a lot of conversations surrounding our recommendations that we are not present at. I just want to make sure that we keep that in mind because a lot of the questions that we asked Mr Bachleman in these meetings are questions that they have he has already answered to the town council and meet a meeting that happened a couple of days ago but then he'll sit here in this meeting and not give us an answer. So I think it's just important for us to even view them, if not to catch up when we have time, or if one member could just report back to everybody else just keep us in the loop as to what's happening because it is informing our work moving forward. And then I just want to also go back to Mrs Pat suggestion of having the subcommittee who worked on the first IFB get together. I think that would be a good suggestion if we want to just put that out to Mr Bachleman. Mr Vernon Jones suggestion from earlier and seeing if we can just get three low bids for the most important things that we need done rather than going through the entire process again. Would be another good idea if that's something that we can get that document together and get that out to Mr Bachleman as soon as possible I think would be in our best interest. And then I'm not I, if you can remind me miss Pat who was on the subcommittee I think it was. It was actually you. Yeah, myself. Okay. And we'll just do the same pattern, the same thing that we did in part a and just like update, you know, the stuff I think. And I think Mr Ross has done most of the work I mean the stuff in our packet right now that I see yeah. Yes. And I think also at last week's meeting we did ask the group members to just take a look back at the IFB that we had written before and see if they have any suggestions so if any group members have other suggestions that they didn't get to voice if you could please send those out to miss moist and miss Winston so that you can get them to us is that how it should go miss Winston. Yes, okay. Miss Ferrera. So I guess yeah how so what's the deadline so that I know because yeah you know me with my job you know things get. So what's the deadline so I know like by when so you all will work on kind of like a draft send it to us. And then you will give you a feedback or like you said you want us to send you stuff right now so that you can put in a draft in terms of what we think would be important for your food. I guess what's what's the way you want it. It will be both you send us subject you know what you're like included and then we put out draft, you guys take a look at it for your. Okay, are we trying to do this so that it's it's into a miss a bottom by next meeting. I think that would I well I think ideally if that's possible, if we could get that to him so that at the next meeting we can have a discussion or a brief suggestion to him that he start working on that just also with the time. And I don't know how much time it will be if he needs to actually locate funds that are not available how much he would need to do so. Yeah, I just think as soon as possible. What do you think. Mr Vernon Jones. My suggestion is that we ask everyone to look in the next couple days at the second IFP proposal from back in March, and at the list of agenda items that I sent out, and which is in the packet for today, and send us no later Sunday night. Anything you think needs to be added, or any way you want to elaborate on anything that's there. Or if there's anything you there you think really shouldn't be considered. If you could send all of that to us by Sunday night. And we could meet, hopefully sometime Monday morning, or sometime Monday, and put together a final document which could be both a request for consultant services, and sort of a guide to what are the topics that we think our group needs to address in its second report. Sounds good. I also am in favor of that suggestion does that sound good with the other members of the group. Okay, so you would be looking sorry so you would get us, or you would put together after we send what it is that we want in it then you would send something out when. And then Mr Vernon Jones said correct me if I'm wrong was that if you want to use the second RF IFP that we already have written just as a base. Make suggestions to pull or add from there and send that to us by Sunday night so that we can meet Monday and then we'll put those together and send that back out to the group. Okay, and then we'll discuss that on Thursday. Yes, I think that would be the idea. So I know it's not a full quorum, but I usually post sub because it's a subcommittee and I have to post those. There's not enough time to post that for Monday morning I can post it for Tuesday morning. Can we do by email, like we did before, like sentence to you, and then you forward it to three of us. Oh, do you guys write I do Tuesday. How was your schedule. Mr Ross and Alicia. I have a meeting like a standing meeting on Tuesday mornings but if we could meet like closer to the afternoon or another time, I probably figure out a Tuesday I just can't do morning. I could do midday Tuesday. I can do that too. One time midday. Alicia when are you available. I'm available after 1030. You want to do 11 on Tuesday. Yes, that will work for me. That's fine. That works. But my suggestion was that people not only look at the original. But also look at the list of agenda items that's in today's packet. That we'll be thinking about combining both of those. Sorry, did you say 11 or 1130. 11am. Thank you. Okay. So I think that is great. And then they. We have two things left on the agenda for tonight. One is town forums and then the last thing is the summer schedule. I'm wondering if we still wanted to discuss the summer schedule just because I know that we did talk about having having an extension. To, to get our materials to the town council by the 16th of August. But I wasn't sure if that was like a final firm decision or we were still kind of in discussion about that extension. Discussion. Yeah, I think it's still sort of in discussion. So I didn't know if we wanted to just move that to next week's agenda still, just because we don't have a definite answer on when our group will end. Well, I think that's, that's the discussion. I mean, the only thing is that I guess what we, what we could put for the next agenda is that if we can get an extension beyond September 1, that's what we would prefer. So that would be the first question. If not, then August 16 is when we'd have to get the recommendations and so we can, we can present to the town council on the 23rd. But I think we need to lead with the, we want an extension beyond the first. Okay. I agree. And then I. And so I didn't know if you guys wanted to go over a summer schedule or if you just wanted to continue meeting weekly. I mean, I, I, I say meet weekly and then whoever can't meet, like I know I won't be able to meet a couple of times during the summer. Then we don't, you know, you don't meet. But I know Ms. Pat, you asked it every two weeks. So, I know it's more the world. So, that way people will, you know, have a breather, you know, still be able to, and I don't know about other people, but if people think we should still continue with weekly, whatever the majority says, I just feel like summer. That is the feeling of, you know, summer relax, you know, you're still working, but it's, I don't know, vacation time for people and stuff like that. So people coming over, whatever. What do other folks think? So I still say weekly and then take your time. Ms. Pat was thinking maybe a summer schedule. What do other folks think? Ms. Owen. If we can get an extension, I think we could do every other week, but just because we're on such a short timeline, I think we have to do it every week. And we can just catch each other up for those of us that can't meet when they're out of town or, yeah. I think my, my agreement is with Brianna, if we can get an extension or if there is going to be a decision to make the CSWG a standing committee, then I think we can take our time and take breaks. But I think if our deadline is really August 16 that we should just continue meeting diligently weekly, if possible. And of course we respect and honor if somebody needs to be absent, and we can fill them in. Ms. Pat. So, here comes a game that troubles me. So the, the four or four people are telling us wrap this up when we, when we ask you guys to join, this is supposed to be temporarily wrap it up. I have a problem with that. I may be because I'm self employed. That doesn't drive with me. I can be on other people's time. I shouldn't say that. Let me rephrase, but there shouldn't be giving us that deadline. We want to do our job thoroughly. And the time council means twice a month. And sometimes that is like additional meetings they do. So I think if we have July and August, every other week, it's not too much, you know, to be asking for we can do some extra homework. So when we come into weeks, then we have more work, you know, more to report and to do. But if people feel like weekly. I will, I will attend. It's not that I wouldn't attend. Whatever, whatever I am, I will be able to join so that we can do that. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for joining Jones. I regretfully think we need to meet weekly unless we get a. Extension. Try to be more disciplined about. Really limiting meetings to two hours or less. Thank you, Mr. Running Jones. Miss. Did you have a handout? Yep. I just want to say that weekly or at least biweekly seems would probably be the best when you start meeting. You're moving so fast. Right. Or you're keeping up with it. The other committees are take a long time to get stuff done because they don't meet as frequently. Right. Like they have to wait until the next meeting. It's just. Right. Miss Bowman. Yeah, I. Also, we get regrettably say that we should be. You know, I kind of have it in my head. If I ever do anything besides work this summer. I would make time to be at this group. Because I know the work needs to get done. I'm tired of it not getting done. But I think we can really risk it. Not getting done or coming to. What we envision it to be. Thank you, Miss Bowman. So if it's okay with everybody, I think we can just continue meeting on a weekly basis. And if there comes a point where we are granted an extension, then we can reassess at that point. But I think. I think that's going to be a good opportunity for us to make sure that we get it up next week and say, Hey, we want an extension beyond the first and see what Bachman says. Right. You know, what the process. And then obviously if he, if, if we get what it is that we need, then we can make a decision at that point. I think we still need to press with that. But yeah, for now, until we get that response. Affirm response. We keep meeting weekly. That's a good plan for moving forward. And so since we're talking about weekly meetings, can we just talk about next week's meeting date? Is everybody okay to meet next Thursday? Are we going to continue to have the meetings Thursday at 530? Yes. Okay. Miss Bellman, do you still have your hand up? Okay. Okay. So our next meeting date. We're going to find my calendar. We'll be, um, June 17th at 530 PM. Miss Pat. So I have a suggestion who we have a subcommittee of two people to start working on what the standing committee. Charge would be like a proposal that we can submit to the town manager. Just don't call it a subcommittee, right? Sorry, not just. Sorry. Can we have two people? Yeah. You know, you know, you know, I'll be curious what people also think about the standing committee, like, you know, you know, what the charge would be. Because we need to think proactively because there are other groups who want to step, step in in a, you know, once we're out, we need to think proactively. We need to think proactively because there are other groups. I know that a very strong, um, uh, equity group, social justice group, whatever you want to call it, who wants to be part of the. Okay. So. We're not the only one. There's a lot of advantage to be part of the town. You have good platform to make your case. So we need to, you know, come up with what we think they, what we, what we envision to be the charge of the standing committee. So who wants to volunteer on that? Help me. I can do that with you, Ms. Pat. I would be willing to, if nobody else. Okay. You guys give us two weeks to report back on next week. I'm sorry, but I'm going to need to go tonight. Huh? I'm sorry, but I need to leave. Um, tonight. Um, but, uh, Group. Going. Thank you, Mr. Vernon Jones. Thank you. Yeah. So it'll be fine. We wouldn't need to have it for next week. Yeah, I'm in agreement. I think it's a good idea to get started on because that's, um, one of the larger questions at hand, it seems like. Um, but I think that, um, there are other things that we should have available for, for next week. And then we can look at that for the following week. Um, Okay. And so, um, I just wanted to see, is there anything, any other members would like to, um, discuss that we didn't anticipate within 24 hours of our meeting. Okay. And so with all of our business come up. Yes. Miss. Just to think about, um, I had been the one that had put town forms on there. Just to think about that. If we are going to do town forms, we probably need to select dates so that we can put that, especially with vacation schedules and stuff like that. It'll be important to kind of think about that. But obviously we don't have to do it now. Just want to put it in everybody's mind. Yes. Thank you, Miss. I'm sorry. I skipped over that one. So I think, um, I just wanted to make sure that, um, I just wanted to make sure that, um, my idea was that, uh, we would be a little bit in a better position to discuss that next week. Once we have the IFB written out and we know exactly what we're going to be asking for a different party to do, then we can decide hopefully. So if that's okay with you, Ms. I'll add that to the agenda for next week. Excellent. Thank you. Okay. Great. Um, so with all of our business complete tonight, I would like to move to adjourn the meeting. Okay. Do we have to do a roll call? You don't, you don't have to, you can just say adjourn. Okay. Thank you. Tonight's meeting is adjourned. I will see you all next week. Thank you so much for your time. Bye. Bye. Bye.