 Say it again just Diane and Katelyn moved out of the village so she won't be here. She's just gone here. I think she lived too close to John no It was some personal reason she still owns her house, but she's not living in South Bruneton All right, we'll be ready All right, I'd like to call the meeting to order for the village of S Extension planning commission for March 21st 2019 Excuse me on the agenda tonight We have Some comprehensive plan updates. We have a public hearing on an application Before I continue if everybody that's gonna participate tonight make sure you sign in Robin, do we have any additions or amendments to the agenda? No Yes Looking for willing participants in the planning commission Exactly Is there before we continue with the agenda Is there anybody in the audience that would like to talk about anything that is not on the agenda Seems we're a little light tonight Yes I just wanted to Really extend the invitation to the village planning commission to visit us at any point in time any meeting We have gotten The agreement from our ruling bodies to encourage collaboration amongst our two commissions Nothing is written and nothing is prescribed I think what I'd like to to float in front of you folks is to maybe see if we can come up with a night that we can meet someplace Maybe have a little pizza or something along those lines and then sort of talk about how we can collaborate What works from your perspective? What works from our perspective? Where can we? You know, where can we become more? supportive of each other not trying to change any directions any rules or anything like that, but I think we all live right close to each other and much of our initiatives are really Very much in line with it with everything so it's it would be nice if we can come come to Come together occasionally on Maybe more regular basis so that we can talk about things, you know like the energy, you know discussion that we've talked about a few times so I would encourage you guys to to Chat about it a little bit and see if you know Dave reach out to me and you know, let's let's find a time that we can I think the term that The trustees use was retreat. I don't particularly think we need to retreat. I just assume go forward and Let's see if we can find things that we can collaborate with it doesn't impact our our you know regulatory rules So that's my pitch Thank you Very cool. Yes, we will definitely work on that Anybody else with anything? Not on the agenda. Okay all right first up we have a Oh, I'm sorry to get the minutes The minutes from the regular meeting actually is this correct says February 21st on my On the agenda for tonight, but it's actually the minutes a January 17th. Did you guys get the same thing? Say January What am I looking at here am I looking at the 21st or am I looking at the 17? So we don't have a minute from the 21st. I was not We can just take we'll table that until the next meetings if nobody has the correct Minutes All right, okay Next up we have the comprehensive plan update land use transportation and energy Yes For having me back There's a little bit of a change in what we are discussing tonight The way the update of the comprehensive plan is Coming out to be is more of iterative updates of the entire plan With focuses in certain areas So we're not going to get a chance to talk to talk about energy tonight Most of the focus is going to be on the running list of contents or comments that were sent to you prior to this meeting Updates that were made to transportation and housing And so that before we go into The the meat of the updated content just need to go over some housekeeping items With you guys all just to make sure that we're on process and meeting our schedule and Covering and reviewing all the material that we need to get the plan Approved in August so at our last meeting we talked about Kind of doing this update in three meetings this being our second meeting and it's Becoming clear to me that I think we need another meeting between now And april 18th when the planning commission considers warning this for a public hearing on may 23rd So what i'm proposing is we meet again in two weeks on april 4th And the content of that meeting will focus on energy I have some more updates that I need to make to the energy plan It will focus on And updates to land use and then just overall updates to the entire plan robin and i are meeting on monday to Go page by page painstakingly And get everything updated and current um with s extensions progress since the last plan And so at that so if we so I guess I just want to get um Feedback from you about whether you agree on having another meeting on april 4th Definitely Yes Okay, so that's great and then you know the idea is that um, you know the plan will be pretty well set by um when you receive it on april 11th Yeah in anticipation of the april 18th date considering it for public hearing um, and as I said may 23rd is um is when the public hearing is One other thing I wanted to talk with you guys about is the formatting of the current plan Is extremely problematic as you've seen so it's it's been very difficult to work with Um and editing it makes it worse. So I've provided a sample of what the new plan Could look like. Um, it's just 20 pages of the first part of the plan I'm gonna send it around for you guys to take a look at it. Um the um The picture on the cover will change The thinking is to take a picture Looking west on route 15 to to get the streetscape of the five corners building And um the the village office building as well So you guys take a look at this the next version of your plan Will hopefully we'll be in this format So it'll be a lot cleaner a lot easier to work with the table of contents will work Um, so it'll it'll make it easier for you guys to read as well. So I'm gonna pass that around John's an excellent photographer. He probably has stuff to do with that. I already took it um last summer He just did it right now, but it's fun. I hope it's a sunny day. I know those are hard to come by It's one of those pictures where you take it and you realize oh my god It's a postcard. Okay. Yes, certainly. I mean if you have a picture that you want to put on the cover That's great. Otherwise, you know, we have a communications manager in our office. She was going to take a picture She lives here. So but if you have a picture even better also live for consideration Okay, so just some more process stuff so I I'm glad that you guys agreed to have another meeting on april 4th to talk about this So this is the plan schedule and this builds in that april 4th meeting all the items in yellow are When the planning commission meets and discusses The comprehensive plan some things along the way to gather feedback from the public are April 18th when the plan is warned we are going to launch a civic comment Tool app that will be accessible on your website Where the public can come to the website and offer comments on the plan Then there were we've had some conversation about using google docs or setting up a drive for all the materials Or you know setting up a having a pdf where everybody comments Um, I know that that this process will really benefit from that at this point the way the plan is In its current state if we bring it into google docs, it's going to make the formatting even worse So I uh, you know abor talked we had an email conversation about that and so my hope is that we can get to a place where The the comments among the planning commission can be shared back and forth My thinking is that with this new plan format if I bring it into google docs, we can achieve that. I just need to test it out And then um as the as dustin the chair of the town planning commission indicated The town is meeting to talk about energy on may night Is that correct? I think it's me And so those comments that the Or those changes that the town planning commission may or may not make about the energy plan I would Like to include in this process. So those could be Brought forth as comments at the may 23rd hearing so something to think about You know consider Putting that meeting on your calendar Those changes, you know may or may not influence What's in the energy plan and then also the planning commission comments The planning commission, you know is able to submit comments between The april 18th and the 23rd and may 23rd and so After may 23rd when all the comments are set and the document is set And we have a final draft to send to the trustees There's a very short amount of time between may 23rd and june 6. It's basically a weekend With it's over memorial day weekend So my job is to get everything in the plan and set for for it to be forwarded to the trustees On june 6 so the sooner that we can get all the comments in Um before that may 23rd date the better so just wanted to update everybody on schedule Any questions about the schedule before we move into the content of the plan? Does everybody have um The comment document I think we do I have Terry print them out for okay Mine is too small Okay, so As I mentioned, um, you know, this is an interactive process of updating the plan tonight's discussion is going to focus on Updates to the housing section that were made based on The draft sx town and sx junction housing assessment They're going through a process now with the vermont housing finance agencies data The staff in the town shared that assessment with me until I picked I summarized the um most salient points and included them in the housing section The housing assessment included information about the housing stock and affordability at the town at the village and at the county level And the housing chapter itself references that plan as as a draft And then the other content piece that we'll focus on is um, the comments that we received from Du Bois and king on the five corners design so updating The town plan to reflect that that is no longer a concept that it's that it's a design. So those comments were incorporated into the Value section and in the transportation section Um, I also worked with cc rpc staff specifically the transportation staff um on updating the transit section to reflect green mountain transits next generation plan, um and Some changes in rail and high crash locations. So I'm just summarizing here before we go into the The weeds of the plan So I've created this running comment list of changes that I've made since you last saw the document It's a little bit unwieldy, but I think it's it's the best that we can do so that you guys can see um What changes are made and how they're applied to the plan itself? Um, and I indicated who made who made the comment and so the first Item that we can discuss is the proposed plan changes suggested by um Du Bois and king to include the five corners design project The changes to the plan are throughout they're in chapter two They're in section three Mostly also in the transportation section section eight and then in the implementation section so Does anybody have any Comments or questions related to those changes So melanie, did you make all of the changes that they basically they that Du Bois suggested including the Objectives and all that stuff. Okay. I made them all. Yeah, so I did I did make a comment at the trustees meeting that That katelyn and diane and my attended ones Du Bois and king presented this I do feel that the That the objective language is too strong Because the language is is implement the design five corners project it's I mean That's all it's up implement We did ask Du Bois and king what their thoughts were it seemed like they really they wanted to Make the language stronger for funding purposes But but it did but Did and when I asked him said if we left the language as is we're you know We still basically be okay for funding and and I think he's the answer is yes So what did the what did the trustees say because it's kind of their project and their vision and they're pushing it and if they're pushing it then we should be Implementing it somehow from my memory they approved it as was So the trustees intent is that they moved towards implementation number five. I don't think that's correct. I think that I mean, I think they they Approved the the actual presentation is that but I don't think they're they're saying we're closing main street and Approved the presentation to go into the municipal plan To improve the report well, we checked minutes, but they were good in the municipal plan Down here. You're kind of a people if you didn't say yes, that's kind of a big thing, you know, they're Saying we expect that this is what we are doing and the comprehensive plan that says we're headed down that road that all of our Decisions and work should be I think there was definitely a discussion that we need to we need to build the crescent connector to see how that You know how that connects and and and then So I don't know why we have to be So blunt about implementing yet. Why can't we why can't we leave the language that we had? We had already talked about consider pest pedestrianization A main stream. Why is that not sufficient enough? So we should get clarification on what they mean. Yeah, yeah It looks it sounds like it's a clarification and the implementation may take years to fade your way in exactly. Yeah, so I'm not I think we really want to clarify that there's a big difference in Direction maybe or or at least speed of implementation And and if that's what they really mean and that's where we're all headed then we need to kind of support something Yeah, yeah, you know whichever way it goes, we need right we should be behind supporting them I mean we've how long is the sort of general concept and plan been out there with the president? I Yeah, it's not a new idea if we're really serious about it then we should be aiming at it and Correct. I think it's not that I don't support it. I think that I want to have more information Again, go back to you know, the crossing connector is still not built, you know And so I don't know how that step one step two is try closing it off for a day a couple hours a weekend Whatever You know, and then we have all kinds of feedback so we can continue to yeah Implement to me is just it's just too strong It's too strong and and I think Back to we've been having the conversation. So that's why we put and you know consider pedestrianization I don't think that's an inaccurate statement That's that is still the plan is to consider pedestrianization So Okay Again, we'll we'll get clarification on that. Yes, it should be up Hmm. It should be up They should yeah Thank you. We had them Okay The only thing I remember is asking specifically. I mean I've been through this process. I know at the end of the day It's not really our decision. They will change it even if you put in Consider and they want it to be well. Yeah, we went through that with the building. I think so Yes, we did. We know how that went. Yep So Yeah, we'll get clarification on that. Are there any other questions? On the comments And Melanie just are you uh, is this going to come back out in another draft with all the changes made and we can see them We get to reread the whole thing again Yeah, I mean because well it sounds like specifically, you know related to this objective Tabling that conversation getting some more information So we'll have another conversation at the next meeting about whether this Statement remains or it's revised. So I I think you should leave it the way you have it but I think we all get a chance to read it and then if the Decision to change it from implement to consider or go back and forth. I would still expect to read the Whole revised section before we get back together Okay, so I will not accept these changes For the next draft. No, I you should okay, that's the only thing is the one word is it you could put consider in front of it uh so objective 4.2 Has considered pedestrianization of main street and an objective 4.3 is implement the five door five cornered project Right, so we're only discussing the one line at this point, but that those are two well The big but yes 4.3 is the is the addition implement is a big word And she's right and the reason for that is because it changes everything that we do in terms of consideration when we're looking at projects And applications because that means essentially they're telling us That we we need to make this happen in the village center. That's what that word means Can't tell you that everyone's committed the last three years It's been told by me that If we may close Make sure their design would work with any changes And and it also can potentially cause confusion if one Section says consider and then in the other section says implement So we should definitely have we don't need both. It should be one way or the other The one's one one's old and one's new right, right I don't think there's any objections to the other You know the description of the actual study and I'm not going to speak to anybody else, but I don't I don't necessarily have a problem putting that in I think that needs to be included. No, I think you would make a good point because we've come across you know situations in the in the code in the ldc as well where You could read it either way because it's ambiguous. So yeah, let's try to Nail it down a little more Yeah, so I don't think I think if they're if you're talking about red line changes you You don't want to accept anything because we want to see what the changes were I mean, right Because if we get the doc back or not, it's just gonna we're gonna have to reread the whole The whole thing That's what John wants to do I don't know There are 50 comments on here already. We're only halfway through now So somehow if all of the stuff gets dealt with some way, we got to read the whole thing. You got it If the minutes are available tomorrow, I will cut the case the appropriate section and present it to you Okay, that sounds good That'll work for a starting point For direction Well, I mean just because we're on the topic of whether we should accept the changes or not So it sounds like we're we're talking sorry to interrupt you but we're talking about Accepting these now tonight. Yes. Okay. So if we have to accept anything I would say that it should be the original way. That's my My interpretation not to say Something has to be done, but I like the original language better And I think amber has a good point. Yeah, I mean or we can Or you guys can consider accepting the description of the design five corners project But without the word Well, so there's the description on page four and then there's the objective the policy directive like that We can have a conversation About on april fourth after you guys go back and read the minutes. Gotcha. Okay. All right So, you know, I I like the five quarters concept. I do but by the wording I think I think what the consultant said was we have to have wording in place that would trigger Successful ground application rather than wording that's a little softer and might say well, you got somebody else Was going to do their stuff a few words out here about it. I think you can you send us the whole Minutes because well, I mean, I don't know that we're going to catch that but I didn't specifically ask that question I think you did but I don't think they changed anything but we'll get the minutes in But we're Melanie is still looking for direction of what we're going to do Well, I think the direction is we're we're tabling the wording of objective 4.3 And we're accepting at this point the description of the five corners Correct. Yes. So the next version of the plan this won't be red lined John, does that work for you? Or do you want to keep seeing the running changes going forward? I can't believe we're spending this much time on one question with 50 more to go is what I can't believe But leave it leave it as you've got a change put it in Purple or something that says we're not sure about this one. We're still waiting on that date and okay off you go. Okay Got it Um So while we're on the topic of five corners The other changes that were made from that project are in the transportation section Um starting on page 70 chapter 8. Does anybody have any comments about that? Or should we accept the changes? As proposed From my perspective and pointing in the trustees approved putting The recommendations in the municipal plan whether or not it has that word in it Well, I'm gonna run into it again because it says I have no further comments Somebody else has other comments. I'm good with accepting these Yeah I want to read the doc of the entirety once more, you know, and then reserve the rate that we're all set Okay So then um the other transportation related changes, um, you know, we're concerning Just clarifying High crash locations at five corners. It's not a high crash location the segments leading up to it are the data has been updated um Additional changes in the transportation section were made um regarding the GMT's next gen plan any questions about that Yeah, it's pretty clear. Okay, and then uh, there was um updates about rail In here as well any questions Comments about that I did make some changes to the rail Yeah, and I believe that I put those in here and there's a note in here about waiting I put a note in here about waiting for information from v-trans on how sx junction might be impacted by the rerouting of freight during Middlebury's rail tunnel construction project So I have an answer on that but I because you know it's subject to change I don't think it necessarily needs to be in the comprehensive plan. Um, but the answer is um Because of the rail traffic in middlebury being halted Trains will detour the existing rail traffic that come up the western corridor Um, and it will increase rail traffic Um, and it will be one additional round trip train per day And it'll last 10 to 12 weeks um Being the maximum duration And it will occur june 1st 2020. So it's still well. Is that a comprehensive plan? No, it's just a very specific um result of construction that's happening in middlebury and so it's just It's just good information. It's not for the plan, right? It's not it's not. Yeah. Yeah. Um, are we using everything possible? to to promote the Revitalization of our train station That's the biggest changes I've had We put a picture in there I believe somebody has a picture John sending a picture Okay, so then the next version The transportation section will all these changes will be accepted Correct, okay um now we can so I've highlighted on this comment spreadsheet the um comments that Weren't some discussion Um, I've got in comments from john that I incorporated, you know If they were just sort of technical wordsmithing changes I made them and reflected whether they were completed or not but there are some Outstanding comments that I need some planning commission Discussion about so that first one is about asset management and shared services Believe it section seven page six So I was just wondering to um if I could get some more words and understand the concept of that a little bit better My basic idea was that as we're As sx junction and sx town continue to get closer together How much is appropriate to put in our visioning statement that it's going to govern the next five or eight years And and I'm not sure that I don't know what the answer is. I think it's just You know, we should recognize what we're doing and include at least a short statement about that as a As a direction or even a goal if that's appropriate and I think the Politicians may have to tell us how appropriate that is and if they're willing to say something then we're willing to put it in the Comp plan because It's happening people take something out of like the In a report or something It's already been written right Yeah, I jacket It's actually a pretty good idea Like I know there's a lengthy But I know there's a pretty lengthy in a town about shared services, etc. Right So I don't have it Yeah, I have a copy of it. Um, so I'll take a look at it to get a direction for that comment And we'll review that next time um John you had made a comment about the historical resources um That's on page Eight eight Section 1.1 Yeah, and my my comment is is We've had this trouble with the lbc, which is that there are parts of the lbc which um get a little So I get pretty strong about how to preserve existing historic resources and at the same time especially in the vc district we have a intentional densification Underway and those are not necessarily compatible Goals In other words in order to make way for some larger denser buildings sometimes things get taken out And if your language is too strong on the historic side, then you actually can't do that You know or we we may find ourselves faced with a situation where some building by virtual that's age or other significant factor You know essentially we'd have to rule that it really should be incorporated into a project and not taken down So something else can go there and I Take our language seriously enough to see if we're saying we're going to keep these older structures Sort of no matter what Then uh, we have to understand that we'll have implications as projects come in front of us and As long as we're all on the same page absolutely no problem If somebody thinks hey, uh, I'm just taking that thing down. You guys don't mind do you when we say actually You know the language in our code says you can't do that Or uh makes it too difficult then we're not really helping ourselves. So as long as we're clear I'm fine You discuss it. I already know how I feel Right and and you could have a project Any day And we've seen them before essentially when when the hotel wanted to go where What used to be Ming's and is now foe dang that came down hotel went in That was the decision we were faced with so it it happens and you approved it and we approved it And if somebody you really came along and say hey listen your town the comp plan says your Protecting your historic resources and your lbc says you're protecting your historic resources and We don't do that then we're not following our is there a way to I guess soften it a little bit so that it gives us a little bit of leniency regarding it the ability I think when we did the lbc language um, we were created in In expressing the vision and allowing the softness And and I think robin came up with some great language for that and I would suggest that we go back to that and Make sure we're in a similar cone That allows maybe especially in the Village center where we're trying to build density Yeah, I think one problem could be you know, since the trustees reduced potential for six stories to four stars And the price of land that our center district is going up You could all intentionally be creating areas of light Where the land is too expensive And that I don't want to say that there's a couple of buildings I know that haven't been purchased because Not much can be done on the site and they're being asked for the for the properties Like you need the extra stories. Do you need the extra stories to make it work? And otherwise There are a couple of those that are unutilized you can have a vacant And it's because the price of the land is more than you can justify for the buildings there And I think certainly you can look and say, you know, this is an exceptional building And deserves protection. This is But just a building that was there when it's 50 years old. It was for a rescue, for example Um That's Obsidents of the spectrum, but I'm sure there's buildings in between that A past productive use for many reasons, not least of which is Nobody can afford to buy them and What are you looking at in terms of Thinking that it's too strong because all I see here is that they're saying that there are these historic buildings that are You know, recognized for one reason or another. I don't see any Unless I'm missing it anything that's saying, you know, hey, just old houses. These are old houses that are, you know, have some sort of significance Is there I guess what were you what do you object to specifically? Well, I think we're gonna see and just come more more information and language Come through here that Is Also affected. I was just reading something else and I lost my spot here, but I every time we strengthen our historic resources sections we undermine our ability to do things with them and Just want to make sure that everybody's looking at this stuff and has a common understanding I think also, you know, we should have an understanding That a new building can be of higher quality than the building is proposed in your place So there's there's some opportunity there as well that So the I mean the only section that I see is the same. I don't have the The one that We were sent but in the co in the count plan right now Is that as the village repairs for the future these historic resources will be analyzed and prioritized to determine Structure should be preserved But I I hear you're saying yeah, I agree with you. Yeah, I definitely agree with you Try and once we again one of those things once we read through the whole entire thing again to keep that as a Make a note to definitely revisit that. Yep. The building says Amber Teeble was born here All right, that's a good point. That's a good point John So am I understanding correctly it sounds as though You're all in agreement with John's comment And I can propose some language the next time that we meet and I think it would fit better in the land use section And you can update the land use section so that it's consistent with The you know the the appropriate Ness of historical resources in the village center district. It's definitely the village center district. Yeah, okay. Yeah Okay, that makes more sense. Okay. I think it's just you know Taking John's point. I think we just want to make sure that We don't put anything in there that Makes it difficult for us To take take forward an opportunity that's beneficial for the building. All right. Okay. Got it All right Thank you Thank you Are we just gonna keep going on the list? We're gonna keep going down the list and paying close attention to the yellow highlighted one You know and some of them are You know, some of them are just not knowing whether certain things took place or not So that's the next one line 22 The tree management plan John you were questioning about whether it had been established I think that was that was approved by the trustees. I believe The What did they send us that was some that's not the tree management plan. That's something that he found and He sent us the green that was about green space. Yeah, green infrastructure. Okay, which really brings us back to design fact But there is a tree management plan and there's some other information that's good Yeah, they the tree advisory committee do have a tree management plan that the trustees If only by reference Right. Yeah, right So we can we can add something in there about that. Absolutely. I think we should okay page 25 There's a There's a lot of these comments that are just because the information in the text is so dated You know, like there's a lot of references. Yeah, things actually old already. Well, I think what Mel and I will do Monday is, you know, we're going to change Cc ta to gnt we're going to change That's been done Caps a lot of other things that are just yeah, they were right then but they're the change And the things that are no longer out there like the farmers market can Yeah, that's been taken out. Um, specifically I I didn't know what you meant by e-cubed three This is not the accelerate Change their logo to e3 or something. Yeah, but they have something like that they've moved. Um So they're not even here anymore. Are they on main? They may be on main street. I think they're on main. Yeah They're part of the sx hub for women. Okay And we should have the sx hub for women Update Okay, now I that makes sense. Thank you. Um So the next one on page 31 This is related to the design, um five corners description. Um, and how it's talked about in, um, the economic development section. So, um Does anybody have any feedback or comment on that? Um, paragraph the It's the third paragraph on section in 3.3. This is another, um content that do boys and king proposed, um, you know talking about the economic benefit of design five corners Yeah, I think whether we use Are you forward with this part of still? It's just yeah narrative. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, okay Which one are you on? Yeah, so I think that uh, the next one about the, um The references and yeah projects and stuff. I think well, you're gonna you're gonna work with melanie. We're gonna get that Yeah Line 25 24 and 25 is something, you know Those are updates That's the update. Okay Line line 27. I think is more of what we just talked about. Yeah, exactly historic preservation in the village center Um The summit street natural playground. Maybe robin and I will get to that and have a discussion about that. Well, they got a couple logs up there. Yeah, they did Also 27 that I that I tell you that flexural and health care needs to be updated to uvm mc Yes, you did and then I Melanie's done that already. I've done that. Okay. Yeah, that was an easy one Network Well that they have about 10 different names Entities the network is the big picture and well dusty wants that because he's part of the network. Yeah He's part of the network. They all get pictures of the playground the bike path Uh Interconnectivity goals Didn't we talk about it? Didn't we talk about a map for that like an overlay An overlay between sidewalks and bike paths and we have a map in there, don't we? But it's not what you had talked about John before it's not exact the interconnectivity map There was a map somewhere. I printed out almost all the ones that we yeah, that can you know Do you put in there what you've got or you put in there what you've got what you want Right, you put in what you're hoping for what you're hoping for and what you know And I seem to remember you making a comment before that it wasn't Or I needed to be updated or something It's probably something we should definitely have been work on the bike the bike walk advisory committee. Yeah, they have a whole thing Yes, because we could we could get that in by references. That's definitely something advisory committee. Yeah. Yeah Okay, so you should try to include that well, we do map six is non motorized And I would say just make sure that this is consistent with whatever the latest Bike walk. Yeah. Yep. Okay. We should probably say that the Raj and have him take a look at He's chair of the bike walk What's this about steve Um, I think I only had a It was around composting or something And I just couldn't remember. I thought maybe I dreamed this was there something where we were going to have Required composting. We were saying that it was we want to have let's see as the remote Yeah, it's coming along way. It's coming. So I I think we just needed to change that because we were saying we should promote The composting but if you have to compost it you don't really have to pay to promote it. Yeah Well, and terry had also sent me a marked up version of the plan from you steve Oh, yeah, most those were just like and so that yeah, so I just want I read through them. There wasn't anything in there that was related to policy It was mostly wordsmithing. And so I'm looking for direction from the planning commission to say Yes, or no, I should Incorporate the comments as suggested by steve And I think I had sent them to Robin to send to you guys so that you could take a look at them To make sure that everybody's in agreement. Yeah, and I didn't and I didn't change any meaning that he was all basically like I got I got the whole Conference of plan with his name on it what I got. Yes. Yeah, that's what it is Steve's plan I got that too And then and did you also get the the march 21st version as well? Yeah, all right. Just making sure It's okay, we can compost it Great So we're we want to include his comments or no. Yes. Yes. Okay. Yes Okay, I can do that One item that actually wasn't highlighted in yellow that we do need to talk about is the discussion of primary ag soils Yeah, I asked somebody else What we see and I asked somebody to state To get that changed because they're not only with prime ag soils Yeah, we had that discussion last time so Looking on page 46. I proposed some language That talks about the appropriateness of prime ag soils and the village and You know, built up urban character nature And We have post-modern soils incidentally Just and so just wanted to get your feedback on that whether you're in agreement or you want further changes I'm trying. I just want prime ag off the map and I am In my friend Irish way contact So there the suggestion behind the map is that if we need the food source that we're going to dig up five corners the actual Actually supposed to re plant it Right Okay Just make comments. I'll have to get back to it tomorrow Would you heard that? Yes. Yep. We're good Okay So the page numbers that I put on here are not exactly the page numbers that I have in front of me But everybody looked at the the language the ag soil language I mean, it's essentially saying that the primary ag soils identified on the map are not Viable agricultural use because they're not connected and they're isolated And you'll set you're just going to separate out Whitcomb and community gardens and that's Yeah, we can we can identify those resources on the map and take off the primary ag soils Okay, excellent. Yep And I also there's a note in there that talks about like act 250 will you know still Be reviewing act primary ag soils in their review Well, that's difficult because there is no act 250 mobility center district if you meet the standards Right, right. Okay the entire ability Almost the entire ability to show in the prime ag soil Has to change We'll have to change Thank you Um, I think um skipping to line 45. I think that's more of an update that robin and I can deal with Line 47 so Diane sent me um A marked up copy and related she made a comment about Um The village is taking sidewalks away in some neighborhoods Um And the comment was related Yeah, because they came up with this brilliant scheme that says we're only uh considering Like tier three roads to need sidewalks on one side. And so as they deteriorate First of all, we don't plow them in the wintertime. We only fly one side of the street The other half of that is if they deteriorate, we're gonna take them out As I understand it, that's What's going on so on What's the one that comes down By sx high school there They took out one of the side of the residents said no, we don't want that's gone No, the one right by the high school entrance Yeah, yeah, I don't you mean Anyway, it does happen and I don't know that that improves our Uh overall walkability You know, yes, you can cross the street go down the other side, but it doesn't feel right to me I don't I don't care if you don't plow both sides of the street in the winter because you're saving a great power I think you know as your mom goes to her urban Yeah, I don't know what all that means to the Vision plan here, but as we promote walkability and pleasant neighborhoods Well, is that something that I mean Is talked about and that I haven't no, I think that was just done I guess your public works would be dense I mean there there's two ways to look at it. I mean there's a huge cost savings If you redo a street And you only put in one sidewalk and the sidewalk is wider than the other one You know that when they replace sidewalks I'm just trying to Some of the sidewalks, you know are in better condition Then two sidewalks that are in bad condition that take longer to fix, you know, so I guess there's a there's a there's two sides There there's no question that there's money savings to be had the question is is that what we want or I think the music plan can say we want to improve Connectivity and not get into specific circumstances, right? Yeah, that's a good point That's what it says. Okay. Okay. Yeah, all right Okay, so I think the remaining ones are our update questions That robin and I can deal with Um So if we just if we flip to the housing section, um Hopefully you had a chance to review the data updates in that section Um, as I mentioned earlier, they were summarized from the draft town and village housing assessment, I mean the overall takeaway message is um, you know housing construction is shifting from single family owner occupied to renter smaller units The number of household the the number of households are increasing household size is decreasing We need to be building House housing that's affordable to all types. So there's a discussion of ccrpcs um, and champion housing trusts um, campaign building homes together, uh, you know, that's the policy initiative on building number of units per year um, the data talks about, um, affordability half of renters not being able to afford, um, or 30 of their income is dedicated to housing Similar to owner occupied. It's about a third of owner occupied Households are paying more than 30 of their income. So Hopefully you had the chance to review the section and just if you have any comments on it our next Yeah The projects that are coming forward have much smaller units Because they can't rent and people rent you three bedroom units parts of two bedrooms So they're well smaller Quite a bit smaller. I meant one tonight Oh, yeah, yeah So, uh, the only comments that I have are um, a lot of that information is already in the eco's plan and is part of their regional Description of our housing shortfall. Yes. Um, I just wonder how we can You know, effectively tie into that. I see we've got eco's in here a couple of places They also had a statement about if we need I don't know, a figure with the last conference I went to it was like 3000 housing units or something in the next Short period of time or that's how many we need and we're only building 800 years. So Or 400 years. So it's really short, but they had it broken down by Uh, community as the F is how many housing units would Essex have to provide as their part of the Goal is that can we grab that kind of stuff in there and say well, we're trying to We understand the regional shortfall and we're doing what we can So we have data on how much how many units Essex junction has built to date I haven't seen anything come out of ccrpc Or building homes together saying that there's x number of units Needed to be built in a specific community. There's a thing about six months ago And they um require that said that we had actually grown faster than any other community Which had been caught to you in the last two years I thought There is information in here about household projections I think that's what you're referring to because we we had talked about that before And in mora. Yeah, didn't she say if if you sort of apportioned everybody's You know in chinden county and you took them their current population as a piece of the whole and you prorated how many housing units everybody would need to come up with in order to There was some some way they did that, you know, just for example, I think you should be building I'll contact mora. See what's perfect about what yeah, what that was what that looked like Okay, so the just so that we're on the housing that has been built in the village to Through 2017 or 2018, right one more thing. Yes under housing goals on my older version here, it's 7.6 housing goals objective 1.5 on page 61 Okay, this read to you if you don't have yours right there Consider zoning changes to preserve existing structures of historic village character along sections of major arterials and in historic neighborhoods so if you do that you could Like dig yourselves even in the village center because you've got five major arterials That's what you were just talking. That's what you're just talking about in the question. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So can you read that sense again? Maybe Consider zoning Zoning changes to preserve existing structures of historic village character Along sections of major arterials and in historic neighborhoods. Do you want to stick in after? consider appropriate Because it's not appropriate it's going to cause problems even to What do you terms of appropriateness? I mean it still does say consider It's not considered zoning changes to preserve existing structures. See that's where you're considered when you strengthen your preservation you're limiting your development And it could you could do a great job, but you can't make something denser than it is now, you know without somebody Right You can add on behind things or around them, but it it is unlikely to deliver the Density of a different kind of question. Yeah, most of us the density is stated for people vendors to invest Did you say in you know inappropriate neighborhoods consider right That's appropriate in there kids. Yes That's good because further down Do you know outside the village center district where I'm supposed to sign up? Then then maybe that's I mean Be fine. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely Well, there's this older house All right, absolutely. Good idea. That's good I'm sorry Yeah, yeah To tie all that in you already you have at least in the version that I was looking at section chapter 3 Section 1.1 you've already got an appendix statement that says As the village prepares for the future the historic resources or historic historic Historic resources will be analyzed and prioritized to determine which structures will be preserved So it seems that it feels like you've already addressed Maybe take that and put it in formal statement instead of an appendix But it feels like you've already addressed the anticipation that some of that Won't be preserved in state and should robin's point. Yeah So you just take this take it out all together, you know So it's a to be appendix Yeah, that's a good idea Access to thank you. What section was that was a 3.3? Uh, I've got chapter 3 I know we already read it somewhere 1.1 Chapter 3. Yeah The one I got distracted on the first thing Yeah All right So, okay once once I find this I'll mark it down last thing Then so the next meeting we'll talk about land use The only change that I have to work on is the appropriateness of historic preservation Can you identify any other land use? Items that have changed since the last comprehensive plan You already had the What's the Transit-oriented district was already in yes, right and that was there no changes to the cde stuff Any change we made but it was in the last was we audit Frick real manufacturing distribution I'm more housing facilities on the global funders side in the light industrial The advantage of the railway line. Yeah, take that job Well, there's a whole statewide map of industrial sites that actually a butt railroads and it used to be a big thing when railroads were more Interval for the delivery of raw materials and If that keep telling people if all the trucks from Canada stopped here out of the woods and there'd be 20% fuller We wouldn't be paying as much to have somebody check to make sure they don't get overfilled And people would be getting the products come running for less Well, we actually have some of the industrial sites like plexus seals actually on a rails per Yeah They didn't want to use it Okay, so I know there I don't think there's any changes other than one robin reference Right, correct Did we include any of the parking setting? Well, the parking study just looked at what we had and the basic result Was that if the people coming to the Billy Center didn't want to park right outside the front door of the place they were going to There's a lot more I guess the question is should we include something? Well, maybe it could be old years and three years time But the business they said that even the busiest times are really about 60% 70% I feel like we should because it's something that you know, we've done recent and it actually Supports the the analysis We We could put into parking that I absolutely feel like we have to put that in because and and put it in the comp plan put it on You know the website put it it's even in mcgillicotties. Yeah Well, we got two signs The most People over here don't know it's over there. It's too far Okay, so we We can look at it. We can look at at the very least the map. I think also value, you know Park Street school in the front of the old Yeah, I mean one of the things about the parking too is a lot's going to change in the next couple years Parking in the area, so You know, you don't want it to be too out of date Behind definitely a good suggestion grill, which was just black felt again for the first time for like 20 years Yep Yep All right. Okay. I think that gets us through the comments until next time. Thank you very much. Thank you Excellent. Thank you so much Okay I have to Thank you Let's move on to The next agenda item my apologies. Um, I think maybe we should have Had made sure that you guys were first, but Thank you for being patient I'm Are we going to watch a couple movies? All right, so Next on the agenda public hearing discussion discussion for final site plan review for four residential apartments With an existing single family dwelling in one residential apartment within an existing garage with 10s proposed parking spaces at seven part terrace Okay, do you want me to start off? So, um Andrew's changed quite a bit since the last minute he made all the changes on the site plan that we requested moving the trash cans And taking out a couple of parking spaces on the school street to increase the vegetation along the street Screened the parking at the same time. They also produced a map showing light spread Um So the cut sheet There is there is it looks like there's one light spill over the multi-family to the east of the building, but I don't think the light fixture and you just black out the piece of glass that faces that way And that would solve the problem There's a three foot soft foot on the building that comes out like this. So the light will actually be Yeah, it's also only 0.01 and that goes on to the neighbors property. So yeah, I mean these the spread if you have to Black out that Awesome Do you have any questions did we have to help reopen or something or Yeah Yep Seven Okay All right, I only have two questions That's amazing All of this material is awesome If we had the first time they would have been probably done, but I appreciate everything. It's it's great. So my two questions I still have in my package The vinyl window replacement including the jam and head trimmed for vinyl fighting And in the narrative it sounds like we're keeping the trim We are just that was part of the pocket Terry keeps it. I throw this away. You can throw it away I was number one. Number two was a question That I don't know We asked a question a lot of time about whether this parking lot had to be paved by The lbc code or whether we changed that To say we could have gravel. I mean Come back to gravel. It's always got almost the same major on office black top But not quite so a bit less we did change the code. I believe to help like the willies to say that could be gravel And so even though this is kind of a commercial apartment building, we're okay with it gravel All right, those are my only questions. I I love the project. It's just what we're trying to do in this district It's a major improvement to take this building and turn it around into what you're proposing Yeah, and I also had questions about the parking the paving and I did I reread a whole bunch of the sections It just seems like it gives us the flexibility to Not have it paved And and all those other things about striping and all that other stuff goes away if you don't have to have it paved right And what correct me if i'm wrong, but in this here it's you're actually we're actually reducing the number of parking spaces We yeah, they were just because of pc requests correct. So we're good there We're patching, you know just to make it clear for everybody that the original It's gone from replacing with vinyl siding correct to patching the original siding untrimmed around the window on the trim, okay And painting the house the original color, right? Yeah, why? So it's pretty straightforward you can paint it again through almost can't go wrong with the painting If you look around at the other properties and similar buildings like this You have a general field color, which if you want to be white, that's fine And then it's customary to paint some of the wood detailing an accent color. Did you see the Yeah, yeah the rendering it shows the building's green a little bit sometimes that's a printing issue But that looks great Yep, nothing wrong in the green at the end of the green in the green's a wonderful color. Yes, but but it's not Okay It's a massive Yeah, there's uh Let's give you spray good. I can't believe you weren't the Wagner Yeah Yes That's going to be a cleaned up a lot that's about good. That's about great. Yeah So any other questions for the Did everybody have a question for the applicants Robin, do you have anything you want to add? No, I think the He made all the changes that the bc asked for I'm over I think it's uh in the building that's seen better days. That's really gonna But it's a huge win for the sort of preservation and those cares where we're talking about to maintain the siding and the window All right, do I hear a motion to close the public portion of the second All in favor So yes, uh to What John said, I think it's you know, simplify the project It's a no-brainer. It's a good good. It's a good deal for the village I think it's going to be a great project So anybody have anything else they want to talk about? Do I hear a motion to Approve or deny this project or this application? I'll make a motion to approve the application With the proposed speculations in the March 21st Do I hear a second second all in favor All opposed Okay, thank you very much Thank you. Thanks for being patient. I hope you learned a lot today About the comprehensive plan Please come back in two weeks Oh, yeah, we have a vacancy too. So, you know I'm living at your center All right guys, so Let's uh, just a couple things does anybody have anything else they want to mention before we adjourn All right, so we want to warn do we want to warn a meeting in Two weeks We want to try to stick to Thursdays, right So warn it for April 4th and then after that our expectations are to try to start meeting once every two weeks Yes, so if we can warn I don't know how if we can just keep warning keep warning I mean, it's an every front porch forum. It's up in them. Yeah If our bird it's in the nest it's in dark on gallery. It's on thick front porch forum. It's on facebook Yeah, and based on her Based on melody's timeline We've got the April 4th meeting and then it's the April 18th, which is the next the two to thursday after Is what we're supposed to be done So That's fine. Yeah, we should remember as I said, it's uh, this will climb the light we're only making the changes of their mind Correct to get it Through to the next system. So when the tongs ready to update their plan then we'll both be ready Correct. So I would suggest that at the next meeting when We if we have time we go over any suggestions That you know of topics that we want to talk about before we have to have it done That are not included in the mandatory stuff that we're doing Does that make sense? Absolutely. So Right, okay, and then we can hopefully we can get that conversation started and taken care of So Unless there's applications going forward into the into the future. I will tell you there's there won't be There may be one application at the end of April. Most likely there'd be two applications in May One's Coming through slowly and it's attached to the connector row. So they both have to happen at the same time The other one was just purchased two weeks ago. And it's the very early stages. Okay Great anything else Do I hear a motion to adjourn? Second All in favor Okay, thank you very much Have a great day. John, it's not even secretary That's what they do It's on him. It's on him Great