 I can recall that Playboy article coming out, and people come up to me and said, have you seen Playboy? It says he's done it. He did it. The deny detector says he's done it. It's got to be a damaging thing. What happened with that lie detector test? Well, first I think you'd have to start with the Playboy interview. I had two interviews with him. I was just supposed to have one. I had the first one here right where I'm at now. And that was more of a sensible interview. It was what I call a net question. But after I escaped and come back, then they returned the original author. I think his name is McKinley, James McKinley. And he had a senior editor, Gonzales, with him. And that's when they started bringing up the lie detector and all that. And asking what I consider net questions about would you kill a guard to get out of that tension? You know, it's difficult to answer that type of questions. But anyway, I agreed to take the lie detector test on the grounds. Now everything I'm telling you now is on tape with Playboy. On the grounds that, I mean, providing that they would take the same time the committee did. Because I didn't promise the committee I would take one. But before I took one, I was going to do some research and read up on it, just like it would psych out for anything else. But they wanted a test before the committee got it. So apparently, Kershaw, he agreed to it. And they came down here. And at that time, I was in the hallway. And they gave me the test. Now I don't want to make excuses for it. Because if you do something dumb, I don't want to come up with excuses. There are certain things that I learned later that shouldn't have conditions. I shouldn't have took the test on it. For instance, we interrupted frequently. It was hot in the room and all that. And all that affects your blood pressure and things. But I think the main... You had headaches, too. Some mentioned that you were taking aspirin. And I don't know whether that affects the test or not. No, that's not supposed to affect it. The only thing that affects it is interruptions. Because the interruptions are all over your blood pressure and hot room. Now I read the text of the company put it out. Reed, John Reed, I think it is. And there's a lot of... They use a lot of strategy, I guess you can call it, but... You wish you hadn't taken it? Well, not particularly. I think after reading the books, I don't think that... Initially I thought it was going to be damaging, but after I read four polygraph books and it didn't seem all that damaging because it's not all that exact. And once you read a book, you can't beat the test. But you can keep them from beating you. For instance, you can learn how to breathe with normal things like that. So the conditions have a lot to do with it. And I feel that those conditions were particularly good at that time for that particular test. Yeah, but I wouldn't discredit the test just on those conditions, although I suspect the Reed Wood polygraph firm. But I think where I made a mistake on it, like I mentioned, is not reading the text. Because once you read it, you're more comfortable and you know how to... How do we act and what to expect, I guess? Well, you're just more comfortable because you know how the machine operates. Well, you take another one or has this turned you off, lie detector? No, I'm going to take one with the committee. But I'm going to go into more depth with the committee. For instance, I think there's been allegations that I mentioned King and prison and all that and Kennedy and all that. Well, I'm going to have... Well, two questions would be if I ever had any recollection of ever mentioning either of them until I was arrested. And that probably would be... I think there's none allegation that I took. But your answer to those questions would be that you had not. Yeah, I have no recollection of it. The story says... There's a line where Playboy says, you know you're a liar and you say, yes, I know that. You're true or false? That's false. That's not on the tapes. See, Kershaw made... Attorney Jack Kershaw made tapes and Playboy made tapes. And I asked Kershaw, I said, did I say something like jokingly? And he called him, he listened to his tape and said it wasn't on there. So... Now the rest of the questions, I don't know... I think they added... they might substitute a yes for a yes or a yes and something like that. Well, do you feel damaged by the article to the extent that you might try to file some legal proceedings against them? I did file a suit in Niceville. I mean in Knoxville. But Jack Kershaw, the attorney, he would suggest I would do it. And I did and I think now Mark Lane's going to. And if he don't, why I will. Jack Kershaw, we're told, got a lot of money for this. Do you understand? Well, I know there's money involved because when they come down the polygraph test, it was mentioned in money. But I don't know just how much. I know it's between ten and twenty thousand. But... You don't care about the money particularly, although it had to disturb you a little bit. No, I'm not concerned about the money. I've never taken any money from... What concerned me about it is the article. See, they had a contract original with me. It's an informal contract. We... Me and Kershaw would get the censored and take out anything that was abjectionable. We thought we... We didn't say they thought we said or something of that nature. And that never did happen. They just went ahead and published what they had, what they wanted to. So Jack Kershaw is out of the picture, because of that, partially because of these t-shirts that ticked you off pretty good. You've had thirteen attorneys. You must wonder if there's anyone around you can live with. That's really not quite correct. I've had attorneys a quarter point, and I never even spoke to them. For instance, when Percy Forman, he had a quarter point of two attorneys to public defenders. Well, I never did speak to them, but of course now they're on the record as me firing them. I did hire more of them. One attorney, two attorneys, Bernard and Festerwald and James Bazaar, they represented me seven years. And they got me firing them. Well, usually when a suit runs out, that's it, there's no more firing them. But I know all these stories that, you know, we've fired thirteen attorneys or something. You've studied an awfully lot about the law where you've been in here, as I understand. You're very studious in that particular area. And someone mentioned to me that Tennessee law says that when a new trial motion is filed and the trial judge dies, there's automatically a new trial. Why hasn't that happened? Well, I suppose it's been a law. And as you mentioned, Judge Bantle, the trial judge did die. He died... Well, he has to die within a thirty-day period, and he died the twenty-eighth day or something. We had a motion from the new trial. Well, the successor judge, he ruled on the statute. Statute 17117. But the successor judge denied it. But we appealed it, and neither the Tennessee Court of Appeals, nor the Tennessee Supreme Court recognized it. So I guess we could go in there on some type of writ of error or something. You want it there? I think most people understand now that there was no conspiracy in the escape that you acted on your own. You've said it time and time again, and I think everybody believes you. But what did you hope to do? They mentioned that the trial that you wanted to break out of prison, to break into a courtroom, that's a poetic way of putting it, but that's it? Of course, the main thing in escaping prison is to naturally get out of the penitentiary room. But of course, I did have it considered several times. If I should have been able to got out, I could have... It would have been extremely difficult for me to stay out long and two or three months. There was a possibility that I could have some intermediary contact Griffin Bell now. Griffin Bell can't give me a trial, but he can recommend to the courts through some type of friend of the court brief or something that they'd act favorable on any petition I would file seeking a new trial. But of course, I never did get that for. You just were frustrated. You just felt nothing was happening and you wanted to try to get something moving, is it? I don't know if frustrating is the right word. There's really two things going to escape plus the possibility of working out some kind of arrangement. Bell, because Mr. Bell, he's mentioned several times he wants to get this cleared up one way or another. And of course, I would too, one way or the other. But a lot of this has to do with declassifying some FBI files. You feel there's a lot of suppressed information that nobody is talking about. Well, I know there's, I think a lot of these information has been put under seal in Washington, D.C. I think Judge, or the judge of Federal Judge Smith, I believe his name is, he's some SCLC members of file suit saying there's personal things in there. But I've suspected the FBI or the Justice Department has put a lot of other things in that personal. You mean personal things involving Dr. King? But I think that's a cover Dr. King. But anyway, I wrote this SCLC representing Philadelphia and I wrote the committee and I told them if there's anything in there personal as far as I was concerned they could destroy it, you know, in the forthwith. As long as we could get a transcript of the items in there it wasn't personal. So I haven't heard anything from the committee yet but I think they're like favorite one. I guess you got to start wondering who the hell you trust, you know, it's got to be what do you think might be in those files? Do you have any inkling or any idea what they might contain? I don't have any idea. I know the church committee come up with a bunch of files that was damaged to the FBI and everything that's damaged to me has been published in Time Magazine publications like that so I know there's nothing there damaged to me so it must be a favorite one. You figured there wouldn't suppress them if there was nothing there. You've spent a lot, well you're in administrative segregation here now and we're talking about your life in prison if we're talking about an escape, I'm sure. You've spent so many years in solitary and it's taken a toll. Do you feel that it's taken a tremendous toll on you physically, emotionally, mentally? I think while you're in there it takes a toll on you. You seem like you're aged and get nervous but I always seem to recuperate a couple weeks after I'm out. I know I was in three years straight one time and I had to get out and do an exercise and stuff back to normal. How do you get in shape? Do you drink fruit juices or what are you talking about? Exercise more sun. Little sun, fresh air seems to work. You're pretty well content here at Brushy Mountain. You certainly don't want to go to a federal prisoner or have I heard that incorrectly? No, you may have too many. First of all, I'm not a federal prisoner and once they get you in there they can keep transferring around. You may be in four or eight hours one day and usually state prisons you have more access to legal material and things. Federal prisons have a good propaganda system but that's about it. I'd rather be in just about any state prison, a federal prison. You're afraid to try to do something to you? Federals? Well, FBI, they use these informers. They might throw something when you're asleep or something but there's really no reason me going to federal prison because they've tried this two or three times. In 1973 I think it tried to send me to a mental institution in the federal Springfield. Springfield, Missouri? Springfield, Missouri, yes. You fought that? Yes, I beat that one. It's clearly against the law. We have a law that says they can't transfer you out of the state against your will. Are they actively trying to do that? They were trying to do it and while they were trying to do it they knew it was against the law but they figured they could get away with it as well. We're talking with Warden Lane and he was talking about the FBI swooping in here at the time of your escape. They were after you, that's all that they were concerned about. You figure that the same way, don't you? Yes. And if they found you, what do you think they would have done? Do you have any of that? Do you think the FBI wants you dead in two extreme statements? I know they arrested one escapee named Larry Hacker and they beat him up trying to make him tell them where I was at. Well, he didn't know where I was at anyway because when we escaped we all went in different directions. But I don't know whether they wanted to do something to me or just, you know, get all the glory for bringing me in. But the FBI has harassed me. That's been going on for a long time. My brother, John, they got him down there 17 years and the guy that supposedly, the guy that played guilty robin got 18 months. Arrassing Carol back in St. Louis? I understand they burglarized her house, sister's house. This troubles you a great deal, doesn't it? Uh, yes, I, uh, you mean all these various harassment things? Yeah. Well, I think it's kind of lightened down now because there's no one to arrest. They've either got him in jail or... We were mentioned about taking your father back to prison. Yeah, well that was before I entered the guilty play. He'd escaped from my way or something. There was going to hold him back up. Well, I never did say anything about that and go about a year ago because I thought they might do it. I talked to the house committee and they said if anyone was arrested on the 18 case, but just, you know, harassment were they considered obstruction of justice. At least that's the way I understood them to say. Okay, put a little black between there and we'll go on to Memphis here for a minute. Okay, I'm still going. When you were brought into Memphis, your attorney, your attorney now, Mark Lane, says that there was, I think he was using the word torture. There was some conditions there in the penal institution that I'd like to explore with you a little bit. Keeping lights on all the time, that kind of thing. Can you describe that for me? Yes, I think when I came back, you mean when they extradited me from London? Yes. Well, yes, they did have a special one. They called it a vault fixed up. They had a steel place that would win this and they had these TVs that would monitor you. Two sets of them and they would watch you 24 hours a day. Two guards in the cell block like you would. And they had microphones in there. You couldn't discuss anything with your attorney because they could pick up up on the microphones. I think the officials said they turned the microphones down when attorneys come in, but you just had to take the word on that. Consequently, we had to write a lot of notes out. But the people that fixed these up wasn't the sheriff or state of Tennessee. There were two lieutenants from the Federal Bureau of Prisons and of course you couldn't light them on 24 hours a day. You know who these lieutenants are? Well, they got their names out there. I know when I see them. Do you think it went higher? Do you think Ramsey Clark was awfully active in that area at that time? Did he have anything to do with this? Do you think? Well, the Bureau of Prisons, the justice department controls it, but I don't know what individual gave the orders. It could have been Carlson, I believe. He's had the prisons, but it wasn't an unhealthy place. I know one time I broke out of the rash and I thought I may have been poisoned or something and I finally got a blood test and tried to find out what that was and later on about five years later when we got a habus corpus and we tried to get to all these blood tests and things and they said the sheriff ordered all the records destroyed. You couldn't find these tests? No. The sheriff ordered to destroy the test for some reason. That's all on record in 1974, habus corpus ring. What would be the motive in your mind, James? Was it an attempt to just wear you down physically and mentally to get you to a point where you'd plead guilty? Do you think that was part of it? Yeah, I think that's what they do. They just wear you down gradually and you get in the space of your attorney. Of attorneys on your side it's difficult for them to wear you down but if they get control of the defense then they can more or less maneuver you into a position where you've got to go along with them at least temporarily. What happened? I think the most the incident getting more leeway was after Haynes got off the case, author Haynes the first attorney and the trial judge told me at that time that it would be no further change of console. So once I got Percy Foreman I couldn't fire him if I would have fired him I went to trial with a public defender because he got the public defender in on a case shortly after he got in on it. Did you have any feelings toward Dr. King at all before this happened? No, that's why I'm going to take this polygraph test. It's my contention that I've never Of course you can might mention President's name or something but if you had really strong feelings about that you remember. So I'm going to take the polygraph test and if I ever mention King's name or Kennedy's president I think that's the two names I've been mentioning. Up until I got arrested for the charge after I got arrested I mentioned her names then but up until then the question would be if I ever had any recollection of mentioning her names and of course if you don't I think that should indicate something. So this was King's activity and he himself was like another world you just really had no strong feelings apparently one way or the other. I think the state contention is well not state but time incorporated I used to see these various political figures on TV in Missouri and get worked up but they didn't have TV in Missouri so that's fictions. Why do you think he was killed? Have you given that any thought about the motive? Well not too much. I don't read too much you really can't get too good of information anyway of course the thing might be misleading but I had an article there somewhere where in March of 1968 I believe he changed his philosophy rather than the integration he was interested in getting economic consideration. Of course there's a lot of difference between wanting money and wanting to go on a restaurant or something like that. Do you think he might have made some of his own people angry at him for the stance change then? I mean wanting to emphasize economic I couldn't answer that you'd have to see these tapes and things like that. But you don't have a real good theory about why he was killed then? No I'm more concerned about I've heard all kinds of theories about it but I don't pay much attention to them most of them are ridiculous anyway. It took a long time to get fingerprints of you I think 17 days do you think they had him and weren't telling you they had him or do you have any idea why that was? This is a continuation of part three it took a long time to identify your fingerprints 17 days do you feel that some were lifted or some were planted or do you have any thoughts about that? I'm not I couldn't be certain Jim McKinley the playboy editor he says they can't lift them the only thing would make me suspicious of something being lifted I think there was two prints found on a beer can beer and I sell them if I ever drank beer unless it's one of the taverns by one this is because I'm in there but it did take quite a while to match the prints up I suppose they have computers I think they can match them up in a few hours and I think they took 13 or 14 days and the Missouri Pan certainly had him didn't they? Yeah but they had their own prints on a car or something I think there was some confusion I think so yes there's witnesses now that say that you were at that filling station Second and Linden you were there is that your story you were at this gas station getting a tire change or repair? Yes I had a flat tire the night before that and one time I mentioned Percy Foreman trying to get the tires evidence he never did do anything after he got the ghillie play they gave the tire to him kept the car giving the tire and the floor mats and certain items I guess I think possibly certain things would have helped substantiate my testimony So you heard the news on the radio was it the way you were? So you were driving you left that gas station in Second and Linden what about six or? I don't have any way to know about that time but I don't even know if it's Linden I know the approximate area it is I've seen the map on the inquirer And you were going back to pick up this man that you say is Raul No I just waved the car back Now the way I've recollected I've seen some police cars and people down there and I turned off the other way Now there is placements he says he's seen me and told me to get my car so out of the area I don't have no recollection of that but that could have been so bad I don't remember anything like that You were aware that you had somebody an associate at that rooming house that what they call a flop house but you weren't going back to pick him up necessarily you were just going to leave the car there I'm going to go to a movie or something Well I suppose so yes there's two movies right down the street but you know I really don't it doesn't take a whole lot of police around to get me to go somewhere else to find out what's going on especially if the police is after me to begin with So you heard all this confusion turning flipped on the radio they said Dr. Kingsman shot Did you think you were set up at that point? No I was headed towards New Orleans when I had the radio and I used to keep the radio on I think I didn't have too strong feelings about the shooting but I think 15 or 20 minutes later they mentioned the Mustang and instead of going towards New Orleans and making the phone calls I just turned left and went towards Alabama Well but you had a buddy back there didn't you know about picking him up again or didn't that cross your mind? No I didn't cross my mind yourself but you went toward Atlanta then Yes Why Atlanta? What was in Atlanta? Well I had to go somewhere there's no particular reason why I would go Atlanta but I had some clothing and things there Oh you had a room there in Atlanta? Yes So you were going back to pick up some of that stuff then? Yes And then you made a call to they said you had a number for an answering service in New Orleans is it? I had one yes I didn't make any call I didn't intend to make the call after seeing these commotion in the street there but I never did make the call because I didn't see any phones along the road and I heard all these reports and I forgot about telephone calls Yeah Did you feel your buddy was involved in all this police activity or did you Well he wasn't my buddy anyway there was no buddy just a financial arrangement This is the man that would give you money? Yes This is the man that you knew as Raul? Yes Okay put a little black between there Okay I brought it When you met Raul you didn't know any other name for him that's the name that he said was his and that's all you ever knew And you met him where? Canada And you just met in a saloon or It was a saloon in a waterfront area of Montreal You never became good friends then? No I wasn't good friends Just business These were all aliases I assume And you don't think Raul was a real name at all then? No I've got some freedom of information papers in their centers Raul, San Diego or something New Orleans supposed to be a him but I don't have the FBI that's material from the FBI if I was but I don't have no way to But this guy, this man Raul was the contact between you and the money I mean that's where the money came from I mean he paid you He paid you what like a $100 bills or? He just gave you 20s A new $20 bill I don't think it's always new I didn't pay that much attention but See at that time I thought there was no amount of money because most of my offenses were not quite Of course people are a narcotics trader or anything that's really a small time Is that what you think of as Raul's prime interest as narcotics? And some gun smuggling on the side? Well that's what I think of course the investigators think other things but I'm just talking about it and he seemed to be working out of New Orleans is that seemed to be like his home base So you went down to New Orleans a number of times? The only trip I ever made well I've been through there a couple of times picking up or meeting someone the only time I ever made a long trip I had to do it in December of 67 I drove around a trip there 36 hours trip I ever made And you get down there and did he live like in a roaming house? I never did meet anyone in any type of private establishment you may have got that out of some depositions of Percy Forman wherever I met a person would be in a tavern or public place I never did go to any of the roaming houses So like okay okay that is that is just the mob that's the mafia's way of paying is in 20's that's what they always use that's why I was curious pay everything on $20 bills okay when you get to New Orleans would you make a call and say Raul I'm here do you want to meet me someplace No I never did call him I think someone else used the answer to the phone I see Raul or something and they'd say meet him in a tavern or something I give William Bradford to you in the name of the tavern and he went down there but I don't know what would become of the best Who usually have the same tavern then Yes And so you'd go there after making the call and you'd sit there and wait and then he'd walk in We just met this tavern once it's on Canal Street but there was no series of meetings I think I just went down there two times excuse me two times on any type of business December and 67 and about three months later March of 68 So you had only been there twice but you met Raul both times No one time he'd he'd went somewhere else or something and you got to go to Birmingham I think it was the last time Well how did you and Raul get into Memphis did you come up together No We met at a motel or a new rebel I think it was and I left Atlanta Birmingham on about this thing's been so long I live Birmingham I think it's about March of 29th to 28th slowly up to Memphis and now the FBI contends I didn't do that I went back to Atlanta and after I heard Martin Luther King was going to Memphis I went from Atlanta to Memphis after I heard on Radio Atlanta but that's incorrect and I think the FBI has all my motel records from March of 29th until March of 3rd between Birmingham and Memphis But you knew that you were supposed to meet Raul and Memphis on a certain day and you did that in the morning I know it was nighttime the night before and did you spend the evening did you go out and have dinner did you what happened No that's not it got rid of the rifle that was that would have been March April 3rd did you ever sit down with authorities and make a I guess what they call a composite you know what I'm talking about were police artists or something and could make a picture of what Raul might look like did you ever do that with the police or with anybody did you ever sit down with a someone that could make a sketch or put together a picture I've never talked to you police or FBI anything I really don't tend to but I have talked to the committee and they've never suggested any composite but I showed them a picture and described the picture where the alteration should be made but I don't like to discuss too much that I told the committee because I think they're operating in sort of a private manner and I don't think I should be going into too much Well I would think that here in some a lot of this is dimmed in your memory as it would in anybody's but when this thing was hot back in the early days when you could recall Raul and see him on the street you'd know him you never did a sketch you never had a composite made back in those days they really wasn't interested I think one of my main problems in this case is they've got a circumstantial case against me it's weak when they extradited me from London and they extradited me for first degree murder and doing all the shooting and everything and nationally now they don't want to they don't want to alter that because they can't under the treaty in other words they can't try me for aiding and abetting or anything like that so they're more or less stuck with their own testimony in England Do you think their mind was made up when they got you? Well it had to be made up they couldn't well I don't know if there's any penalty for extraditing someone fraudulently or not but I think I can see their legal point where they've got to stick with their story And you stuck with your story your story hasn't changed at all No I except sometimes I'll mislead someone's I mean that's on the record when I do that Bradford Hewitt or someone like that But I I wrote everything down on paper usually when I first got arrested and get the various attorneys and Haynes and Percy Forman and I wrote a lot more for Percy Forman but he claims that he lost his file somewhere he gifted John Jay Hooker at the Nashville, Tennessee attorney and the attorney lost his file but I can't see it lawyers losing their files like that but now when he goes in court his word is taking above mine more credibility so I still have what files I had and he just built a recollection What a black in there Trying to learn a little bit more about what kind of a guy Raul might have been Was he a talkative person? Did he talk a lot or was he quiet? No there was not much talking Of course I don't talk too much either on the outside So there was not a lot of chatter or rumors, he didn't tell you jokes there was nothing like that Was it very serious business when you were with Raul? A lot of times people were on narcotics pills or something, they were kind of quiet So he might have been a user as well as maybe a pusher So he just didn't run off of the mouth much and when you got with him it was business and a lot of that had to do with the money I was pretty impressed with this money My main concern not only with him but with all the other associations was trying to get passport I was more concerned with the passport than with the money because I wanted to get out of the country and out of Canada This was before the shooting? Yes You wanted to leave this country, huh? Well I wouldn't leave Canada this country and I was I wanted to get it out of the way in Canada Australia And you thought Raul was a man that could do that could pull the strings, get the passport? Yes, I was promised passport the first trip across the border and nothing ever would come of that Do you have a lot of confidence in Raul's ability even if it wasn't an underworld sense? No, not too much after you misled a couple of times I was trying in various other ways to get passports and travel documents It wasn't just in one source In fact that's why I had plastic surgery one time I was trying to get emergency papers in California through the Coast Guard for a picture It wasn't just one relying on one one source Did Raul let you down from time to time? We just on the passports only problems But generally his word was pretty good And if he said something you usually got it Well would you take a hundred less or anything like that? Bang it was there He had it and he brought it out Playboy has quoted the Percy Forman as saying that you invented Raul to feed conspiracy theories What do you say to it? I know Percy Forman He's been What was it? Well no I won't say he's my friend He was attorney of allegedly attorney of my attorney for a while but Percy Forman he's been involved in a lot of unorthodox things when he's been attorney I think he was died here about two years ago for the Hunt family He got some documents I think he tried to bribe a witness to take a fall for something similar to what he did to me I wouldn't give Mr. Forman too much credibility for two reasons I don't want him to cause his involvement in these unorthodox legal operations but now he's lost the file and I'm positive he didn't lose it I think he's he gave the William Bradford Huey somewhere and when we had to hape his corpus here in 1974 we couldn't subpoena him because he's more than 100 miles from Memphis and that was a member of our subpoena but we invited him there to testify on a roth and he refused to show up so I really can't see how he can say things in newspapers and when comes time to talk on a roth why he will come up with some story You didn't invent Raul? No I didn't Raul was a real human being at least he was at that time he didn't know where he was from he didn't have any idea but excuse me come on in now a lot of what you hope might be beneficial to you was wrapped up in this name, Rosenson and determined that it was Randolph Irwin Rosenson and we've provided a picture of him does he ring any bells is he Raul could you tell by the picture? No not that but I really shouldn't talk about that because I think the committee asked me about that I'll give committee descriptions I can mention before I don't want to go too much about what I told the committee but I haven't given descriptions and draw maps upon the things of that nature would you feel that Rosenson might be a key in this somewhere? I wouldn't I wouldn't say that I think if I were Rosenson I'd sue Playboy for slander if something was false they used his name he's out in there didn't he? of course I'd have to get counsel advice but I wish he'd sue me so we might sue the FBI there was a report wasn't there of Rosenson being in Knoxville at the time of your escape? I read in Knoxville paper you don't know whether that's true or not though no I wouldn't you've had no contact with him now you're talking to the committee you apparently have some faith in this committee you don't view them as a threat necessarily necessarily yes necessarily I mean you think they might be on your side? well they've got a mandate to resolve these cases and I don't I think that would be on my side but I mean I don't think they're going out of their way to do me any favor of course you're at a point I guess well you don't know who to trust you don't know really I'm not concerned about trusting anyone I can tell anyone anything because I'm ready to go to trial today if we could we had a trial if this committee came in and said okay we found Raul here he is come look at him and you say yeah that's him that's the guy that was with me down there would would you be a state's witness? no I don't tend to be a state's witness but see there's certain unresolved things with the committee now Mr. Lane here well I have to discuss them with him but I don't want to speak as my own lawyer but I guess something would be worked out with the committee but I don't tend to be a state's witness and I don't think anyone could be prosecuted just like that anyway because they've done the government's done committed their case to the extradition hearing in London so I don't see how they can switch around now and say it was some other way well there's no you know statute of limitations or anything on murder I mean if Raul's the killer and they find Raul he'll still be trying they've done cues me of it so I don't know how they could switch around and cue someone else and you would be the main witness you would have to be the main witness wouldn't you? I'm going to be a witness for myself I'm not worried about the prosecution witness so you wouldn't come out and talk about Raul no I there's nothing that I can tell I mean I can tell anything that's my own witness that could for a state witness and I'm just not interested in being a state witness