 You can now follow me on all my social media platforms to find out who my latest guest will be and don't forget to click the subscribe button and the notifications button so you're notified for when my next podcast goes live. As I come off the pitch, I try to just see some fellas just glaring at me and go, it's like, see, drugs test, I knew it further, I knew what I'd done on the weekends and remain. What the fuck? You know, all your mates going to the last minute, you're going, I'm like, nah, I'm gonna take it or nah. You fucking go, you just want to go meddling a big mass of time, you've been training for four months for fucking going into your self-life, the fucking is what it is, so go stand in the glass, don't be, get nicked. And then fucking hell, from the space of playing in the football league on Sky, going to Benley and doing their well and scoring gold and month on Sky, fucking hell, how long? I'm fucking banned from football career over and I'm fucking imprisoned. And as everyone's leaning over looking, some kid's hot sugar water, he's just melted this kid's face and the kid was the wrong kid, he owed the debt. As it worked out, he owed the debt, this was the first day, so I was thinking, fucking hell, it's going off in here, he's just melted his face and then he's walked back over to him like, is that all right? Do we not owe money no more? And they're like, that's the wrong kid and this kid is next door but wants to go. So he's going, obviously his face melted with those boiling sugar water. James, I can remember getting them getting the call, I can remember them, my dad fucking telling my mum, I can remember my mum punching the wall, screaming, this scream and I go, oh my God, she's punching the wall, she's breaking her hands, her hands, her both hands are broke off it. Boom, we're on. And today's guest, we've got Paddy Lacey. How are you Paddy boy? Good, great. Just fascinating story, Paddy boy. Professional footballer, banned for taking coke, sent to prison for false notes. Yeah. Not better place to be brother than this podcast welcome for this story, bro. Yeah, most definitely. How about you? No, shan't, yeah. It's a colourful past that we'll definitely get into but I'm made up there, I'm coming up to the other end now. Yeah, you can see that with your posts, you can see what you're doing, everybody's behind you as well. Everybody loves those stories. That's why this podcast is so popular because it's fucked up stories that majority of people do change, which is also a great thing. You're loving proof of that, like, you had a career ahead of you in the football. Obviously you've got a few obstacles that most of the kids in Liverpool as well, bro. All around the UK in fact, there's always temptation there, where the temptation... Just pushing the ball. Yeah, it always tends to lead the way but shout out to the scousers, love the scousers, these are crazy bastards. Don't get me wrong, but all fucking great people, all a good breed. First of all, glad to have you on, bro. Nice one, yeah. But as you know, I always go back to the start of my guest Paddy, where you grew up and how it all began. So, I grew up in Crosby in one of the nicer areas in Liverpool. Me and Mars from Hayton, me and our fellas from Dingle, and I think they didn't really want to bring kids up where they was from to remain up with everything that goes with it. So, my mum's granddad moved to Crosby from Hayton, so they used to come up and see him and say, it's nice round here, we'll bring the kids round here. And it was one of two then. Sister is two years older. Me and my dad end up having two more kids, Lewis and Cheyre, promising young footballers, like the Jenny, me and you, but now my mum and me are younger. They're up my new band, so, yeah, it was just a normal childhood. I'd say not on but happy memories to remain fighting, playing football in the park, just doing normal things to remain as every house kid does. How's it be, bro? They're getting treated playing for the rest of the Reds. So, he's been there since five years old. I should have signed for my new, when I was a kid, but I signed for the Bill. And he's been there since he's five, so he supports Manu and everything now, because they've doubted after him, they've looked after him. He lives in Manchester. He's only 15, well, he's 15 in April, and he's been the top player he plays in England. So, like, he just supports Manu. There's not much he can do about it. It's a bit of a pill to swallow, because he'll come home singing Manu songs, have to coach them with all the lads, and we're just like, what's happening? But, you know, he looks after him, so fantastic. Good luck to him. Where does that breed of talent come from? In the family, Khalil got something in the blood? Yeah, me half, I played for Liverpool until he was 17. He had a few schoolboy boxing fights when he was a kid. No routine school, so his parents said, you know, you're not boxing no more, you're not in school. Stopped in boxing. Football until 17, got fucked off for Liverpool, and then he didn't want to play for no one else. I think he went to a few little teams, and he said the Buzzard Gunsun, he said, so, we went straight back in the boxing gym at 18. Boxed for, like, three, four years, and then said he was going to turn pro, win a world title, all the pull-out that comes with it. But he met me man, and she was to blame, that's what he says. Yeah. Somebody's got to get blamed, aren't they? What were you like at school? You know what, I could talk to you about your other room, and no doors, the amount of times I was sat there, always older lads, never fighting with lads my age, always kind of looked after our lads. With a couple of lads beside me, we were a bit older, and I'd stuffed them up. But I always talked to you about it. I've had teachers' sons pop up to me recently, I've been on a big job with the Instagram and all that saying. I'm just here with your auntie, she says you were a fantastic kid, always fighting, but you're a decent lad, so... What is it, did you start getting into football? Football, I started quite late, considering the kids started early now, about eight or something like that, I was at Tram here within a year, then Liverpool did the following year, they bought me from Tram here, and then, yeah, I followed a bit of an headache, because I was a little superstar, you know what I mean? So he thought I should play the year above, I should play every game, and, you know, you don't live a big football club, and he probably caused some friction there with the cultures. But it was not on my nappy childhood, I felt sorry for my sister, she never really... I loved school, I bounced up every morning, I couldn't wait to get to school, loved it, but she got bullied quite a bit at school, you know what I mean? And it was like chalk and cheese, I went to her junior sister's chalk and cheese, she found her out in school, she hated it, she didn't want to go, she cried, she was two years older, she cried that she didn't want to go, and I'd be skipping out the door, you know what I mean? So there was always tension, whereas she was getting bullied, I'd have to fight her, the battles do not load at times, you know what I mean? Looking after them, I've always looked after her since, she's a great person, you know what I mean? Yeah, well, what position did you play at Liverpool? Did your positions change through the years, or did they stick to the same? Yeah, no, it was always just centre-forward then. Yeah, it was just centre-forward as a kid, and that's what he bought me as a time, I mean, Liverpool bought me as a centre-forward. Somewhere along the line, I think it was my dad's bright idea, that I was a centre midfielder, because I could tackle. So, yeah. What happened after Liverpool? So Liverpool, a little bit of a story, but that me half, I was, he's like, just causing all fiction with the managers, and to just sign me, they just bought me, and I weren't there that long, and he was selling them. We should have signed for my new, but Liverpool football club don't want to hear that, that, you know, this promising kid could have signed for my new. So it was about six months, then I was out the door at the time for a couple of years, kind of cold, he was in my team. John Flanagan, Dale Jennings, good, good players, and then I was playing Sunday League loan beyond my dad or the other Sunday League team, so I'd come back out of the academy system to his Sunday League team. He was made up, my teammates were made up, because we'd run the show then, and we were playing this team, what was he called? I won't even mention him, because it's like it's bringing someone's thing into it, but they had this lad sent to me, he was a big massive unit, and he was a big bullying country, and just recently getting done for it. He's 13 then, and he was out raping prostitutes, then on historical crimes, and I was mad, he was about a 15 stone at 13. So I'm saying to him, he'd had the night before, he'd just come out in the pool probably three weeks, four weeks, I said, dad, I'm gonna smash him in half tomorrow, but if it goes off, because he's a big bullying country, make sure you're with me. So I hit this kid with a tackle, well, he was like a man, he was 13, and my leg just kept coming back to me, and I fucking broke my own leg in the tackle, so I jumped up, my dad's the man, he said, you're playing on, son, you're playing on. I went, yeah, yeah, I'm just trying to get going, John like Conor McGregor's, when he's standing on that leg, but it's broke, and I'm trying to jog for a couple of minutes, he's like, are you playing on? I went, dad, I can't, he went, my leg's fucked. So when I was young, because he wouldn't let me box James, I always wanted to box, I was always fine. Fucking, I always wanted to show him I was tough, but I could only do that via the football pitch, so never stayed down off a tackle, tough in the tackle, always tough. And I sat at the side of the pitch, and me ankle bloomed, so like that. So he phones an ambulance, and the paramedics come in, he went, nah, we don't think he's done anything, he doesn't seem in that much pain. I mean, no, he can take pain, I know he's only 13, but, so one of the parents kicked off, said, you're not taking him in the ambulance, John, look at the size of his ankle. So he went, all right, we'll take him alone, behold, I'd snap my ankle, but it's tough, no, no gas in there, in the ambulance with my ankle, I don't know why, mad way of thinking, think I'll show him how tough I am. So I'm just laying in the bed for four hours the next day, and some nests come over to me, he's like, look, I've had a look at your sheet, you're 13, 14, and you know, you've had no medication, and you snapped your leg like six hours ago, but it was all to try and show me, Dad, that was tough, which is a mad thing to get to me, and I went fucking hell, no, and he come over to me and I was like, I hope you're not taking medication, to try and prove to me that you're tough, I went, yeah, he went your fucking doughnut to me, so then he gave us all painkillers then, but it was like something in me, then to try and show your dad how tough, weird, I don't know. Did you look up to your dad, was your dad that tough? Tough, tough on you. Xbox said to him. Yeah, he's seen the potential on you. Yeah, so he kept me away from boxing, he'd seen me fighting the streets, he used to send me to school, Joe, when I was a kid, Joe, your sister's getting bullied, you've got to go to senior school, even when I was in primary school, go to that school, and whoever said something to your sister, you've got to go and widen them in, you know what I mean, and that was the norm for us, my dad's like a bit of a fucking caveman, in that respect, there's a dispute, he solves up with his fists, you know what I mean, he's old school, so, he kept me away from the boxing, and just said, Joe, stick to this, footage showing you've got potential. Everyone loves my dad, you know what I mean, from where we're from on the pill, I get more messages about my dad than me, I was your dad, fella, he is a proper legend from where we're from, everyone loves him, he's got a big heart, he's a funny guy, but, you know, he's tough, he's old school. Has he calmed down a bit with your other brothers playing football, or do you say the same? Well, I mean, he hasn't calmed down in general, no, he's fucking, he's round the bend. Maybe that's what you get, you know what I mean? Yeah, it's Deffo, I do believe that, that Joe gets passed along the line, and what's in him's in me, and Joe, all his side of the family, they've all got short tempers, I think I'm snapping out of it, I'm matured now, my tempers going, but, I'm totally in charge of that, footage, he reckons he ruined mine, he's probably like, I definitely didn't help, but I'm in charge of this, you know what I mean. So, how long are you injured for? So, yeah, sorry, that knocked me back about six months, so I come out of a fantastic football club with Poole, and then I was out for six months a year, something like that, I needed two operations on it to get it straight, and then I was playing catch-up, then all them lads, you know, your Conocoadies, your John Flanagan, your Dales, they'd really kicked on in the year I'd been out, and I went frail, I was weak, because I'd been sitting on the couch for a year, and I wasn't quite the player that I was, do you know what I mean? Yeah, between ages 12 and 16 is crucial years for your development, well, you can kind of know between ages 14 and 17 who's going to kick on, it's not the talent that makes it, it's the consistency, so a year out potentially sets you back three years, playing under 13 at 14, you can still play under 16, under 17, but if you're going back a year out, it is a hard battle, but you've obviously got back. So I got back and I got to Blackburn, but it was more on the back of how good it was a couple of years previous, because everyone was after me then. So, I was kind of in my shell in a little bit, so to remain, I was kind of away and probably because I didn't believe in myself when I went to the same player, I was my own top players, do you know what I mean? At Blackburn, so I was kind of within myself, and then I went to Sheffield-Wenty, I never got my scholarship at Blackburn, and then I went to Sheffield-Wenty, but I was better than Sheffield-Wenty, so that came back then, so me kind of, I'm outspoken, I was a bit of a, I always thought of myself as a leader, and I love Sheffield, the Yorkshire people with tough people, the lads were tough, they were great set of lads, and yeah, it was fantastic, Sheffield-Wenty loved it there. Where did you go after them? Bradford City, so then again, me and my fellow didn't learn from his mistakes at Liverpool, so always passing messages, your manager done this, he played it in this position, he's done that, make sure you tell him tomorrow, so I'll be speaking to my dad every day, be bearing me head out. Did you speak to him today? Because I was living away obviously, now dad, I haven't spoken to him, go in that office tomorrow and you tell him. So basically, I'm just telling this manager what my dad wants to tell him to get them in, so friction course, and the fella, it's easy on that insight in it, he knew his shit, he played for St. Johnston, played under Sir Alex Ferguson, Man United, John McCullough, in Rettersback now, he was a proper, clued up fella, but I was listening to the wrong person, I was listening to me half fella, to get them in, and in the end he gave me this like one chance, he always used to say, this UT, remember Badland Dami on ITV, he used to say, we've got a bad lad Dami in this UT, and you're the fucking ringleader, because I was telling the lad, he's a fucking player, so he doesn't have a clue, but that's what my dad was telling me to get them in, and so he sat me down one day, he played everything, played well, and he went, look, me and you've been arguing for 18 months here, but I'm still willing to give you your pro, because you're good enough, job will you be here Monday, and I went fuck off and went to Leeds instead, and the shuckers and everything, and the fucken hurts me that, there are a lot of someone in the high shucked land, and still fucking dumb what my dad said, they should have been appointment, and I went, dad, don't know what I mean, he gives up the pro contact, he's saying he's getting me on Monday, fuck off, but me and my father was like, it's not him writing, fuck him off, he's not bad, he's just, he's that. My dad was the same, when we used to play, when I was with Hibbs, he used to do the same, it was a lot of private school kids played, and they were signing this form, so he was, when he used to stand at the side, he was always shouting and swearing, and I'm thinking for fuck's sake that, he'd get King Dan Barris, but he just tried to give me that extra edge, just to let people know that I had support as well, and then obviously they clearly don't like it, because people, you've got all the yes men around the managers, all the other kids, and that's all nice, and kissing their ass, obviously your dad was the same, he's trying to do your best for you, but yeah, he's making it worse. Yeah, well making it worse, you probably love me a bit too much, I was his little superstar, you got to remain at Liverpool, then my plan, I was on the bench at the start of the game, there's four quarters, you know what I mean, you're going to play, you walk around the pinching, in front of all the parents, sometimes come on, you're not on the bench for no one, playing for the Bulls, you just like that, I'm getting dragged by the arm, but then it was into non-league, then non-league was fucking hell, it was funny non-league, so well I'm still here now, signing for a good club in Altingham, but first, me half of the, you know, he's helped me so much James, he doesn't ask how you're at, he asks have you trained to remain, he's obsessed with it, not really his own thing and now he's a little bit old, but you know, he always knew that, you know, I had to train every day and, so I was down in the dump, so I had a few injuries at Bradford, I went to Bradford, had two knee-ups, pulled me thigh twice, never broken to the first team, all those were pro, so then I went into non-league then, and that summer, me half, I said right son, this is what you need to do, you've been into the whole season, we'll get fit, and he was on the track with me six o'clock, three times a week, it's six o'clock in the morning, he had to go and fit a load of floor, you know what I mean, I got paid up I think about February off Bradford, got all the rest of me contact paid up, so as a kid I thought at that point, fuck it now I've got about seven grand in the bank or whatever it was, I'm fucking rich to remain, and he got me in the van then, he went nah, you're not sitting at home waiting in jail for opportunities, you're getting a van and laying something, so I lay in floor and then I've got my own business now, no football floor and so, it's the best thing I've ever done really, that last football didn't have a hold on me then, whereas at the end of your contract, you've got to go and find another team, you've got to drop down a level you don't know your wages for the next year, and it was always living with that anxiety, that fucking hell, and we're going to be here next, is this manager having me or is he not? Well fuck that, I've got a job now and I've got a trade, and I'll always have work, so it did solve a few issues that you're all having a trade and being on the tools, and then I went to Barrow, there's a few little funny stories in Barrow, Barrow was, fucking, when I joined him, he was really struggling in the conference now, and we kind of went on a journey, but the first story which I've brought up on my Instagram was, have you seen the pictures where there's all fans, I'm duffing up fans? No. So we play in the AVE Cup and it was an international break, and we played the team three, I'm only 19, no 20 it was, and we played the team three leagues lower, I had a stone, I think it's like Birmingham Ways or Coventry, and we turned up to this little shitty shed of a grand, like in the fourth qualifier of the AVE Cup, I was like, fuck an hell, there's a fair few fans here, the fuck are these like? And I was on the bench this game, and at the half time you warm up, with your teammates on the ball, and you just see no fans bailing round towards our fans, but all the Barrow fans were quite old, so I was like, they're not going round for a fight, so I've plundered over with the ball, seen all these fans just run in, start weighing in, these Barrow fans, so this fella must have been 70 years of age, and he's just getting weighed in by all the young lads, but I'm on the pitch and they're kind of up on the stand. So I put my arms around this fella, so to stop these, and as I turn, the pitchers are all on the daily mail, I've turned and then there's all fellas on the pitch looking at me, so obviously, I'm a young scouts lad, you're not running higher, and I've just stood, and they've come towards, bomb shot one of those ass, it's all on pitches, bomb, it's another one, but then there's too many, I don't know if that's the kind of, it's all back off, I remember saying, first one that comes, you're getting sat on your ass, just moody down there, the tunnel. So then, fuck, I'm a sat in the changing, and he was all, they're all 40 lads, they're all nice lads, but my manager was another Dave Bayless, he was rather full of scouts fella, I think it's for my outward Dave, and he was like, look boys, there's no plot at this game, we'll have to be fighting our way out of here, you could hear them all, like down or something, so then about 10 minutes goes by, and this steward comes in, this woman, this, no she was young girl, she went, look, whoever was fighting outside, now you need it, so I thought it's police, so he comes outside into the end of the tunnel, just massive fat fella with their warm-up poles with the big spike, he just stood with it like that, so I'm like, what's happening, all right mate, and he goes, you just stepped my fucking son, he had that little cocky accent, so I was just like bang, hit him with the left tooth, so what James, he didn't merely budge, he was about 25 stone, big fat face, so fucking, I got dragged in by my manager, he went, lad, you're gonna cause murder, so then we had to wait like 45 minutes for police to come to the game, and then we sat on the bench in the road, banging on the bench, they see you, getting a paddy, they see you, fucking this, so I kept standing up from the bench, still on the bench going, listen you big dickhead, I've just filled you mate, and I'll smash your head in at the end of the game, and then my manager's had to bring him young, had your course in chaos, so he's blowed me on the pitch, and fucking, they're all screaming all shit, then at the end of the game, I flew over to the bench, like what was she saying, mate, come on, and then all the blood had gone all to me then, and it took me off, but that was the first like, thing in non-league where it was just fucking nuts, but then the lad who's on the pitch is with me Greg, I hate to name him, when we come into the changing room, he's with me Greg, lad, what about us, then we were swinging, we were bodies were dropping, and I'm just like, it happens quicker, there's a fight, it's just all, but I was like, oh yeah, it's right, so we live locally, so we never got on the coach at home, so when we got on the coach, it was all half, because it was a big thing, so there was all fighting at matches with players, we looked on the pitch, he's fucking running away as I'm fighting, he fucking left me, man. Was that, how was your temper on the pitch, in like previous seasons, previous teams, did it start getting worse as the team started, the decline, do you think? Well, we was on the up then, so we started then, but I always, I used it to me advantage, I always remember like an old army saying, I always like loads of things back to the army, that you know, like all the disappointments, you can turn them into energy, so if someone had done me with a tackle, or we were one, they'll done, I kind of, it's that sort of morning, and I kind of just got angry, and then ran around more, and tried to make something of it to get in the main, but the next couple of years, three years ago, I climbed the league, won the league, done all the lights in the conference, which then led me to Achrington, which was, you know, finally, in the football league, it was what, 22 years I had worked to get to, you know, playing the likes of your tournaments, you know, big clubs, so where you feel like a footballer then, to remain and took me 22 years, I should have done it sooner, some of my players don't play barely, then on sky playing against John Flanagan, who's a mate who would play with it now, he played bad at that point, he played fucking 40, 50 times for Liverpool then, so I was kind of playing catch-up, and was looking like, you know, I'm here now, I'm 22, but you know, I've got to move in me at least, let's get to, you know, in that big money, in even, you know, the championship Premier League, I wanted to do it, so, I was working at that time, but I had these little problems where, you know, I was a floor layer by trade, I was living my life like a floor layer, you know, I was going out drinking, taking drugs, using that as we spoke about before, escapism, if I had a bad week, the only way I knew how to process it, was by drinking ale and going and taking drugs, that was all I knew, to get to me, with my environment, so started off, well, I couldn't do really well in training in that, but he kind of had a fixed on, it was two cents a minute, that done really well for him, so, yeah, finally got myself on the team for Portmouth, he started me, rang me, I don't know, he never pulled me, just before the game, when he went and looked, he started today, phoned your dad, so he phoned me, and I thought, I'm starting Portmouth, from a big game, and I went, lad, I've taken all work, you haven't played the last, like, you've come off the bench 20 minutes, you haven't played the last, I'm working, there's nothing I can do, I went, so I fucksake dad, I went, I'm playing anyway, so he tells the fella, he's doing the floor, and he says, look, mate, my son plays like anything, could you get soccer sports on, or get, you know, the radio on, the fella gets it on, he was into his footy, so it's 0-0, 87 minutes, fucking 10, Ben is going, fucking unbelievable, so the fella runs to me dad, as he's fitting the phone, because you're not gonna believe this, he's just, it went to them live, said it was someone, my dad's like, you're fucking joking. Yes, he must have been buzzing. Yeah, he was made up, you know, but he missed it, man, and then it, I got cold in the month with Alan Sky, like, bastard's getting you shit for years, man, causing havoc, he's gonna get ya playing, he doesn't travel out to your big gaming years. He still gets to take a bath right now. So, I was trying to fucking hit a bit of foam, and then I forced me right into the team, was doing well, but it brings me on to failing drugs test, doesn't it? How old were you? I'm 22, I think, yeah. At the time? Yeah, 22 years old, so, I was in the team, and then he kind of wanted the sentiment fielder back, I can't really, Joe, I did deserve to keep my place, but these two sentiment fielders, they were older than me, they were like 31, 32, both of them, Joe, they played 500 games, they really knew what they were doing, James, they were making experience, played at that level for years, so you always, I was the third choice. So, you got me out of sentiment, then I kind of made it home at right back, but we had the kid on loan from Bristol City, who had to play, I was constantly in football, don't know whether you had it. You build yourself up to the weekend, if you play shit, I'd just go in a mad low, I'd just be fuming, like fuck, didn't play. Obviously then, drinking ale, taking drugs. So, I've been out one weekend, he dropped me, I played well, then he dropped me, and he always wanted me to assist the manager, come up to me and I said, no, you're gonna really fail, I had done by, Joe, because you've been doing really well, but you know, just stick with it, you're gonna give him like, a point where you can't say no, do you remain out while you're playing? But I remember just thinking, fuck. So, I hope someone sniffing at me, but I was getting told that there was clubs all sniffing at me anyway. I'm fucking you right off, when I get a given off a chance for doing this, then I mean always leave me out to team, sure as you get a chance, I'm fucking you's off. And then I went out that weekend, he rings me, I never turned off a trainer on the Monday, and he rings me on a Tuesday, and says luck pad, we're playing out of the pool away, I think someone was struggling with the groin, someone, you know, you mightn't stop, but you're definitely gonna get some gain times, will you please me off? Like, not beg me, but he made me not, I said, I'm not well, I'm fucking like, basically two fingers, and then he made me feel like I was obliged to go. So it turns up, and then at half time, we come out, there's the sub-second half, and then someone just looked along the bench, they're not thinking of it to remain, they went, there's all drug testers here, fucking hell, I just felt fucking terrible, straight away, just thought, no, please, God, no. So he brings me on, the pitch then, last half an hour, as he said he would, but I must have drank, I'm telling you now, James, four litres of water, just straight away, thinking, fucking, I want to piss water here, comes on the pitch, couldn't move, because it had a big fucking belly on me with all the water, and then as I come off the pitch, straight away, just see some fellas just glaring at me, and go, it's like, see, drug test, I knew it further, I knew what I'd done on the weekends, it remained. Still makes me feel under the main, and then you're in this room, he comes into the changing rooms, you don't listen to the team talk, the man mark, he does no escaping. Some players do, just go, look mate, I'm not taking this drug test, see you later, and just walk out, but for some reason I didn't, but you know, it was all meant to happen, what happened, so sit down, and fucking wait for me first, didn't take long, obviously drank a load of water, just shit me self then, get on the couch with the lads, and everyone's looking at me like, you're all right there, I must have looked, for a man, I must have been grey, you're all right there, I was like, yeah, yeah, yeah, but it sucked them three weeks James, they gave me the fucking results, so as every week passed, I was thinking fucking sad, yeah that was a close escape, and I'll never do that again, as a man, so, he just phoned me three weeks later, it's Coley, the manager, and I was back in the team then, funny enough I fucking played there well, and he phoned me, he went to the light pad here all the lights, he went to sit and down, I went to sit and down, what do you know what I'm about, he went, you failed the drug test son, so just, fuck, because I'd have to go to the bar if I'm honest, because it sucked three weeks, speaking to all the lads that had confided in him, went, look, he went, nah, I took out one time, because all the police are all young lads, people will go out and don't make mistakes, you know, fucking, I had it once on a Sunday, and got the drug test done on Tuesday, and not an happen to me, so I was kind of thinking, Joe, close fucking call, but I've got away with it, and then he hit me with the denser, I mean, I've failed the drug test, and you fucking, that was allowed to remain in fucking all well, fell apart then, but you're totally exiled from that point, you can't go into training, you can't have nothing to do with you, which is, I think, ridiculous. You, well, the rules are changed, like, if I get caught, so say they would have come to the football club on the Monday and had to turn it up to training, or, yeah, it turned up, you get a rehabilitation order, just you, the FN, the club find out, so you just have a set down, not a set down, but they inform the club and they say, look, we're going to pull on this rehabilitation form, and the club, they can sack you if they want, so they can say, no, he's a promising young kid, he's always made a mistake, and then you re-appen, you learn, you know, how to cope with these things, and not put yourself in certain situations and all stuff like that, so, but when you get cope with it in your system in a game, this is ridiculous, straight away, you are at a four-year ban, even though it's Charlie, see what they mean? Because they say it's stimulant, so straight away, that's the first thing, you're banned for four years, as it stands, you know, you need mitigating certain circumstances, you need to talk to them about, you know, it weren't for your sport and performance, you know, you're the fuck would do that, I don't know why it is like that, and then that gets it to two years, so you're talking two years, I was banned for, and then, so I spoke to the PFA, and I was like, look, I only fucking had it that week, because I've been dropped, and they send you to the psychologist, psychiatrist, it's all a bit of a, it's all a blag, the PFA, the PFA, they decide what they're going to do with you, the PFA is supposed to be on your side, so professional football association, you pay into that every year, every football it does, but they're kind of in bed with the FFA, and I was mad, it was just a mad setup. Did you have many drug tests before that? I never had one. Do you have a question that may be being set up? Well, yeah, I definitely do know, you know what I mean, and I do know who ran them. Somebody stopped you, innit? Yeah, someone definitely stopped me, but he went and started getting me, you know what I mean, he went and started getting me, because there was a group of scouts at the time, one of them had fell out with him, this fella, and kicked off on him and that, and I just thought he'd ought to get him away from this club, to get at me, because the fella, I don't know, but I don't believe he was trying to get me, but it's like Judas, this fella, when this drug test happened, he phoned every day, he was following me, I followed him to get him in, and he just blew himself up. That makes some delight, you know? That's football for you, though, James, and like, in the football world, I've met plenty of good mates and good lads, but it was kind of, it was always kind of snotty, and no honest answers with managers, and everyone was always just lying, like, if a manager doesn't fancy me, as a player, he says, look son, you know, I'm thick-skinned enough, I'm not quite having you, can you find another club, son? It's right, son, there was some other manager like me. Football was always, I've always seen there is a bit snot, and I'm dead honest. Yeah, it's like you. Yeah, if I'm going to upset you, but what I say, well, come on up, that's the way I see it, to remain. So, they fucked me then, I just got to football, I fucked myself, but, you know, I'm not the only person to do that, and that's not, I'm not saying that people should go out and do it or whatever, but if I'd have been given some rehabilitation, and just some help from the F5, I'd have looked at the team and they went, look, he's the first time offender, and it's his first drug test, we could have got him at training. There's no sense to it, but he's getting a two-year ban now, and you're fucking up his whole career. Not only, like, what job do you know? Yeah, deacon, get your sacht, fair play to Aachenton, they paid me till the end of the season, because it took like six months, in order me to go to Wembley and find out what they're doing with me. So it took them like six months, and Aachenton just said, we're going to keep playing yet, and hopefully, they looked fondly on you, they don't bring it out in the press, and we're going to look after you to get the main, so thank God for that to get the main. So they stuck by you, though? They stuck by me, they were saying, until they come out in the papers, and they just went, look, we're already a small club. I think in years gone by, there was some type of thing we're betting maybe 10 years before me, with some of the Aachenton players, so they just pumped up. When I first joined Aachenton, what I should have done was, I should have been more pally with the chairman, and he was a good fellow, we had a fellow, Billy Key upfront, who went through depression, but he was dead, he was getting paid, and he never turned up for about six months, because he was dead pally with the chairman, and the chairman knew, so he's gone through whatever he's gone through. But the chairman thought I was some nutter, but I weren't. In the pre-season game, he ended up having a fight with another fucking, we played the team in pre-season, I won't name him, because he doesn't know the fellow, but I knew this fella from six or seven years previous. I played in, I was on sale with his team, and his nickname was Joe Greenmail, John Coffey. He was a big massive unit, he looked like him as well. And I'm playing for Aachenton, my first game pre-season, this kid that just dealt me with the tackle, now snapped me leg. So I've tried to play honour, I couldn't, and as I come off John Coleman, he's been in the game four seasons, he went, that's the worst tackle I've ever seen in my whole life, you know, he said, oh, your leg hasn't snapped in two, I don't know. So the kid was a scouser, so I go over to him a half-time, so I said, I'll fucking have a way with him. I said, lad, what was that? Look at the state of me leg. He said, lad, I've just rolled off a beach, got off the oldie, yes, he apologised. So we're coming down the tunnel and in this big cunt, he was there standing in this new coach, the ex-player, he's shouting all shit, what's he fucking saying to you there? So I looked back down the tunnel, I thought, who are you talking to? But all these Aachenton players don't really know me. So then my manager, he was probably 60 John, put his arm around him, it's kind of a big fella, you know, he's only, he means anyone put their hands down in this tunnel, you're fucking knocked your out or something. So I'm like, see you, you big dickhead, I'll come and see you, soon as I get out of this tunnel, I'll come and see you. So walks past the bench, I'm hobbling, after getting a shower, he says, you big dickhead, don't be shouting down all fucking tunnels and all, like you big knobhead. So he jumps up, then there's all screaming, there's all fans behind, and my two new managers have only been playing for them for about three weeks, they say, sit down will you please? Fucking cause no trouble. So I thought, fucking mountain on mountain, you know what I mean, I look like a bit of a cunt. So at the end of the game, I hobble over to him, I said, I'll forget about it, it was only a tackle. And he went, I'm not shaking your hand looking down on me. You know, put me on land, there's waste. And I go, look lad, have we start fighting on this pitch? It's getting split up in 10, 15 seconds, less. So I mean all that. I said, but if you want to go and walk with me, if you think you're out because you've got all these big massive muscles, come in a little walk with me and we'll see how you get on. He goes, what? So I didn't know him, but no, to me, my assistant manager, Jimmy Bell, he'd see me having this conversation, he was right behind me. So I went, put me on, so let's go. He went, fucking right. So me and him were walking off this pitch, this big unit, but I'm limping. So then he grabbed me arm, Jimmy Bell, and he went, lad, are you sure here? Do you want to do this? I went, lad, these big fellas, they can't fight the full of water. So then we walked, we go past this, changing them. We're walking towards the exit. As I start to go now, James, and he turns and he's like, look, I'm not a player no more, I can't be doing all this fine. I went, look, your ass is going, fucking it's time to go. So then we walked outside, it goes outside, just flattened him, he didn't knock him clean out. Now, one of their plays has seen us all walking off, so there's a big crowd walking through this big centre half with his top off runs out as if he's going to do something, then sees us, mate, poleax, then just goes, pfft. So he goes in and that's the first thing the chairman heard about me, to get to me and fucking help one of our new signings. I was knocked out this fella, but I spoke to him on the way home, I said, look to him and I said, where I'm from, you know, I'll put my hand out to she, because then he fucked me off in front of everyone. So that happens where we're from, and he was all like them, but he'd get on the team coach and he'd look at me a bit like, you know, and he shouldn't have, and then I failed the drugs test, I've ended up going to jail, so that was kind of a cringing thing. He did get me back after I'd been to prison, but he was saying, go and do like a year's here, so we know that you're going to stay out of trouble and all that, so I couldn't wait that time. But the rehab, if they're the guy... You're a pure liability, bro, for what it's made. I would have fucking set you up for a drug test, mate, if you're constantly fighting and causing it, it'd have been fucking weak. Don't want to dig back. You get the director sitting in the bus, when he doesn't want to sit in his own team bus, because you're there. So all the accolades and fans, they're obviously leaving the stadium, the same time, they're seeing me, they're writing it, and that's how he got word of it, just seeing one of our players knocked this fella out, but, yeah... Did you think you'd bring a lot of that shit on yourself as well, though, looking back at it? I always... Do you know what? My thing is, I don't know why it is, I always want to stand up to bullies. I've never been a bully, never done it in my life, but... Or anyone that any bullied, I think it was more to do with sister. So, I had this deep thing where people thought, like, if they could talk, dance, people, or... So, any bullies, I'm always the one in my bed, it's on switch, or if you're in place, and there's a loud mouth, dickhead, which there is in every bar, me bed, no, who stayed to waste, you're like, I want to go, because I'll end up saying to him, you fucking big, no bed. Do you feel as if you've always got something to prove, then? I had, until I started boxing. I... Yeah, I always felt like I did, I was always fighting with Domen, and fucking hell... Always fucking fighting, that's all, like, when I look back at me to y'all, I don't remember any footy matches, just all the fights I had, I remember me half of it coming on the air recently, with all my mates. And like, they're all just reeling, all these fights of fucking hell, me half of it looked at me, and he's fucking out this fair shit. He's like, how many fights have you had, lad? Well, I don't know more now that I'm boxing, you get to me, I don't have two, because obviously you get that side out of me. But, you know, you still run into your knobheads, to remain, or just to rev you in, and... Yeah, of course, people... They're placed with time and time as well, but when you're a professional, when you've got a career, then you put everything else in the line, because you need to be squeaky clean, you need to learn how to take shit, you need to learn to... not putting people in their place, even though you're raised in that way, where, listen, let's go outside, and you know yourself, 99% of the people who you say, let's go for a straightener, if not anybody here, they shite themselves. Yeah, they're big fellas with all the moves. Yeah, they're the worst. I think they obviously do it, because they're scared to have a fighter. Do you want to have this big... A big mask? Yeah, exterior, please, no one asked me for a fighter at all, like, a big black book. But saying that, mate, I do know some fucking stuff, and they just don't like... There's the monsters on the big of the man to get to me, but some of them, it is a black, because they're really, you know, they're afraid. So you get done for the drug test, and then when did you get sent to the jail? So, I blame the FAA for not giving me that rehab, to just get a straight ban, exile from football, you can't even train with a team, so it's three months, the end of your ban. So I think I've got a 14-month ban, some fucked for 14 months, no income. Did you have many send-in offs? Eh, it'd be great, I haven't had that many, I'm a big tough tackler, like, but I think I've had about three or four. They had a little bit of paper, maybe with your background checks, fighting inside their parks and stuff like that. No, I do believe that, you know, this person was trying to get this person out the club, and he's rang them and said, look, because I think he thought he was the drug user, and he waits, he got it all wrong, so he's following them up, and they're coming to test on me, and put you on one. I don't know, mate, man, stings say you've been set up, but you weren't even supposed to be playing that game, and then you've got the phone caught on the phone to be playing it, and then you've been drug tested for the first time ever, knowing you're out and we can't solve these stuck-in along the lines. When I was at Hibbs, we used to sell things at halftime called a Happy Hibby, they were called the totes, we signed this one, we had to sell totes, but me and another boy used to steal the book, another, an extra book, so we sold our totes, we used to give people a ticket for another tot, not one, so we used to make a few quid. I'm 100% sure that brick stuck me in, because there was a lot of jealousy there, and then it had to release me to Partick Fistwell after that, and my career just kind of never went the same. Possibly, but when I look back now, I just think that it was all supposed to happen, to get to me, obviously to put me on this journey now, that I don't know, but if I never got caught then, I would have got caught at some point, because I would have kept using, I would have kept thinking I was okay, to drink air and take drugs and play football, so I probably would have never reached the item football, doing that, living that life, but I'd have probably kept doing it. I don't know, but you're mature in age, don't you? I'd like to do this for a minute. I'm ready to be a professional in that ship, but I'm still daft as fuck, mate, I still get crazy fucking thoughts. They never go, I just don't act on them as much. Yeah, but you learn that with age, you don't remain unimpulsive when you're young. So when you get sent to the jail, what's the story? So, when I went to prison, I'd start a boxing previously, I'd start having amateur fights at Barrow, we'd done a school fight, all the lads boxed each other at, when we was about 21, all the lads from school, we all boxed each other to raise money for its teacher, that was the boss' teacher in our school, and me and my fellow come, all his mates are ex-boxers, he's ex-boxer, so they all watched me, but I'd boxed the proper boxer, because I was sparring the lads from our school, as I said, I always looked after these lads, you know, I could weigh them in, so they said, no, you'll have to box the proper boxer, you. So you'd had about five or six fights, so I ended up boxing them, and it was well heavy, well bigger and I'd done well with them, so me and my fellow had the same answer me, at the end of my job, what's wrong? You've got ability there, boxing, I know you've always asked me, fucking hell, I should have been boxing anyway, because I was 21, I couldn't do my own thing, you know, if you want to go and box, have a few fights, if it's still Indian, you still want to do it, go and do it. So, I went to the Salisbury ABC then, which is the likes of David Price, Derry Matthews, Paul Redwood, he's another fucking crazy past that, yeah, so my first ever boxing show, my dad took me to, was to go and watch Derry when I was a kid. Tough bastard, man. Yeah, not half, one of the world's title, one Commonwealth, you know what I mean, one of the British, so there's loads, my amateur club's steeped in history, you know what I mean, we're well known up and down, fucking the UK, so started there, me and my fellow fans, there's mate Paul Wright, who kind of took me under his wing, he was a coach there, and he says, Paul, this comes once a box, I've told him his whole life, that you know, he should be a footy player, get him weighed in, get your best lad, fill him in, and we'll see how much he wants the box. So we do, one night we do 12, three minute rounds, I hadn't had the fucking boxing fight at this point, I'm sparring a lad called Adam Farley, end up turning pro, he won the ABAs, he boxed for GB, he's fucking top lad in my weight, he fucking punched me from pillar to post, he never fucking pulled no punches, so he comes home fucking like that, that's why my nose is like that, thanks Adam. And he comes in and I loved it, even getting filled in as you just said them all, then it comes to the point where you like it, and said to me that, oh yeah, but I was alright, some of the runs, I was holding my own in that, so my half-fellow knew the boxing bug had got me then, and I couldn't get away, even on acting to him, scored that goal of Portsmouth, so that was on the sat day, I boxed in the Maisie side in Cheshire Final on Wednesday, against some lad from higher side, I think his name was Callum or something, and knocked him out in the third round, but it was in, it was in, KB where my two managers were from, and this fella comes up to me, fucking, he goes alright Maisie, I knew Paddy Lacey, did you score that goal on the weekend? I said, oh yeah, that's me, so what are you doing here? I said, lad, I'm the last one on, I'm fighting. He was like, you fucking messing, you're supposed to be a blown footy player. So I couldn't shake it off, James, I couldn't stop fighting, I couldn't stop the boxing, it had the grip on me, wait, the football didn't have it, we had it did, because I missed it in jail, but yeah, there was boxing that started, and football ended at this point, so I was banned, and then I went to Denmark with Maisie side in Cheshire Arch region, went on over there, sit a lad on his ass, and then, yeah, because I dig me teeth in, because the pressure was trying to get hold of me, I was ducking and diving away from me, that was when I told him at first, I was banned, so I was hiding from him in the gym, saying, oh yeah, dad, I'm going to training, then for three weeks he's checking, I said, I'm not in the team, he's fucked me off again, and then he's locked me, he's gone, lad, you're not even in the squad, what's going on, something's going on, I couldn't tell him, because I said, dad, I've failed, drug test, I'm banned for a couple of years, fucking it was his old world, he spent all the money, he'd take me up in that motorway, he's the remain, James, and then one night after the bulldabbing, man, I scored, my father's fucking buzzing, so I said, look, dad, I've got some... It's the right time when he's happy, man. He was up there, so I was just brought up level, so I just went, look, and I think he knew, as soon as he see my face, he knew, it was something serious, and he said, lad, I didn't know what was coming through your head, he said, I thought, it's all, it was going to be a fucking cancer show, so I fucking... So yeah, the main course, I was like, dad, look, I've got something to tell you, shut the door, and... He was half a bit relieved, I think, that he never knew the seriousness of it, the severity, but he just looked and was like, all right, lad, and I went, dad, I've fucking ruined my career, it took me 22 years, I've fucked it, and he was like, don't worry son, any times like that, me half a lot has always been sad, like, you can depend on him for shit like that, he knows, so if you're fucking about, you're fucking about, and he'll tell you, and he would give me a clip as a kid, but, you know, in times of need, he's probably the person, even today, if, you know, I would go to meet dad first, one time, just give you this little thing, I was working for him, and he was saying, son, you're going to do this by yourself in a year, I'm going to teach you all the floor, you save your wages please, you know, you've got your footy wages non-league, and get yourself a van, and I'll get you the foot in the door with him, I'd like to shout them out, but they're the competitors now, this floor, no, my floor, no off the building, no, they won't fuck them. So, I get your foot in the door, and you're in your own money, you don't want to be working for me, you're all like, so anyway, I saved all this money, it's mad, saved all this money, and one day I was going to the bookies, James, and I ironed, I think I had about four grand, I ironed three grand of it on them fucking machines. Yeah, well, all of it, I think, I don't think I had much left there, I had about five, son, and James, it comes out the bookies, I'm not lying to you, there's where, it comes out the bookies, goes home, sits on the couch, and you know, when you've probably had it with the government, everything's just a play, you're watching the telly, but your mind's just, you know, half of the looks turns me on the couch, he goes, all right, son, I've just spoke to the boss there at this floor in the company, you start on Monday, we're going to go and get your van tonight, or say that was sat in, we're going to go and get your van tomorrow, so I'm just like, I'm fucking done, I haven't got a penny left, I owe me savings, I've got a savings for this man, so I went that, I went that, I fucking earned all that money in the book, you dickhead, you fucking idiot, and he weighed on for me van on that then, I still had that van, Joe went and got banned from football, and I remember getting the chain on from Wembley thinking, thank fucking never sold that van, should have been, so I had a way in the mean to fucking earn money. How much were you getting at Actington? So I was only on like 750 quid, and you're paid for your games, but like my bonuses were going up every game, my wages, no, every five games, my wages were going up, so I was on shit wages, I was actually on more money when I was at Barrow, because they had a lot of dough at the time, so I took a bit of a pay cut to go with League Eye, but it was like incentive based, that come the end of the season, if you've played 30 games, you're going to be on a fucking good whack, including your appearance fees, bonuses on only 22, so yeah, then fucking I went to Glastonby, I won a boxing tournament, called the Haringey Open Box Cup, so it was the biggest open tournament in Europe, and I wins that Box to Swedish kid, the Traveller kid, and fucking comes home, and me half of my sister died when I was in the semi-file, so comes home and he's devastated, and he must have bumped into me, made it to somewhere, and he was all going to Glastonby, and he's never given me a pass, he's anti fucking, doesn't mind me having a drink with him in the house, but he's anti fucking drugs and that, but he wins, mad how he said it, he was like son no, you mate's going to Glastonby there, are you going? I went nah, I haven't got a tich on that, he went you fucking go, you just want to go meddling a big mass of time, and you've been training for four months, for fucking go and enjoy yourself lad, the fucking is what it is, so goes down to Glastonby, gets nicked, and then fucking hell from the space of playing in the football league on Sky Kings Burnley, and doing their well, and scoring gold a month on Sky, fucking hell, how long, I'm fucking bam from football career over, and I'm fucking in prison, what, six months or so, yeah six months, I'm fucking, I'm going into Bristol jail to remain and just fucking, you know what, when the judge was a fucking nonsense or something, he was all over the country proper, give it to me in half, like said a bit of shit that you know, you're talented, you can box, because I had all the people that have wrote and said this, and you keep fucking up, so you're going to a custodial fucking sentence today, I turned up to jail with not, because when I went for my pre-sentence support, the week before, fucking the fella sat down with, he was like, you know, you've worked your whole life, you're a talented football, now you're a talented boxer, so you've got all these people saying, what's the point in sending you to prison, which is right in it, you know everyone deserves a chance, definitely never got a chance off the FA, they just hit me with a band of cunts, and then the fucking judge just gave me a custodial sentence, so I just rocked up and she didn't tell me dad, didn't tell me mum, just because they had to bury the sisters, you get what I mean, so I phoned my dad from jail, so I got banned and then I was just like, hello dad, what's happening, fucking, again, he's the waitress of a pool. My mate was in the outstore at the time, so my mate had phoned the courts, and then he'd went, so then my dad was like, oh no, oh no, oh no, what's happened, you're fucking down, what the fuck, I can't even, I'm screaming and I'm just like, thank fuck, I'm in jail, not in that house, because they'd be giving me dad on the banks. So, prison now was quite motivated, funny, when I went into prison, James fucking hell, turned up with nothing, didn't have, not a stitch of clothes on while I was in, so I'm in the olden cell, so all these half-fellas waiting to go in, but luckily I was in, a lad who'd been nicked on the scene there, because they were looking for all the scouts, I swear to God, I had a glass, I'm like, when you got nicked a glass, I thought they were looking for them black notes, because they must have been within circulation or within scouts, fucking shock. So, when they've took you to, I think it was some fucking, some custody fucking jail, I mean, police station, lad, the queue was down the street with scouts, they'd nicked that many, so you walked in, it was chaotic just scouts, so then you booked your in, done your interview, fucked you off, they fucked me off, because they said, look, you go to the magistrate's court in the morning, but you've got money there, go and stay in an hotel, then make sure you go to the magistrate's so I went to magistrate's in the morning, and they said, look, you're no good here, crime court in three weeks, I think it was. So I just went back to fucking Glastonbury, then I thought, fuck, you know, we've come this far, not going home to fucking feel sorry for myself, so I went back to Glastonbury, then it was looming, it was hanging over me for three weeks, I was thinking, I'm going to fucking jail here. And when I went to prison, this fella told him, I said, I haven't got a stitch of clothing on me, you went to son, you don't have a clue, you, you went, well, when you get in there, I said, when this woman bucks you in, here's your prison number, tell her you smoke 40 a day, because do stop smoking in jails now, get yourself some of them fucking, I don't have a smoke, not a cigarette in my whole life, get yourself some of them fucking, Nicotine patches. Nicotine patches, you went, because you'll be able to swap them for shower gels, biscuits, currency in there. So I was like, oh, it's right, mate, nice one. So I sit down with this woman and she was just down at this prison, fucking God, whatever you call them, screw, so she was like, oh, do you smoke, because you're taking off, I went, yeah, love 40 a day, because that got me the top hand, because she looks at me like that, football, and she's like, oh, do you, yeah, she's like, all right, so then she gets you a lot of pass, and she went, don't you want to put one of them things on now? And I said, I've never put one of them on before, love. I said, how'd you do it? She went, yeah, just stick it off and put it in your arms, so what does it? Sitting, she's talking away, fucking hell, the room spun, I started sweating, because I've never had nicotine in me 60 miles, like, fuck me. So then she's talking, I'm not even listening, I'm like, all right, love, bangs back into the store, the soul, and I'm like, what the fuck's that? Shoes and nicotine, do you know what I mean? And then he's like, give me that fucking wackeling on his arm. Bullets, fucking mad. So then I had to like, I could swap a few things off with shower gels, biscuits then, and prison was all right, I didn't really like Bristol, because I wanted to get home, no one could come and see me, it was three hours away, three and a half hours. So I was asking them every day on the bus, I was like, get me to the pool, mate, get me to fucking Walton, get me to fucking Strangeways anyway, and then he come on down with luck, I can get you to Risley, I think it was a category B, or something like that, so... What can't I get away with you? I would have been a seershut on my diet, but I was asking, I was saying to him... What was he going to get caught with? When he knows... I got caught with 260 pounds of 13 forged notes, and he had the ecstasy tablets, and he had Charlie on me. Ha, ha, ha! So, you know, they're that glass to me. They know it's a self-flat, that's not enough, because it's... I got 14 months for them. It's cause they're short. I got two months for the ecstasy tablets, and two months for the Charlie. They fraud in the Royal Fowlings. Yeah, yeah. So, like, no one knows the severity of it, but I'm in the busy... He had me at the time, I'm just like, fucking hell, mate. And he said, have you got them notes? I went, nah, I still haven't got none of them. So, he checks, like, a load of dough, and then he checks and goes, mate, you're off, you know? So, I've been like, oh, all right, fucking hell, I don't know, someone's giving me the money. So, he scanned me, like, you've got 30 of them, I was like... Cause he was saying to me, these drugs are just going in the bin, and like, if you haven't got them notes, Is this a screw? Or was that security guard? No, that's the busy, that's the customary, this. So they were happy just to take the drugs? You're at the customary, everyone's there for the same reason, they're everyone's there to let the red out, so... When he found these, he was gutter for me. I was like, what's happening to me? They said, I'm fucking... I'm a footballer, you know, don't try to get inside. He was like, mate, you're fucked. He meant this, this, this area. So, he said, where are you? It's a find, all new scousers with them, you's have all got them, some unbeknowned, some now. Could you not get on your toes, man? No, because the way they done it. I'm just walking around, they've been out the night before, it was the first day of the music show, the night before, it was just a firework show, been up all night talking shit as you do a class to me on Stone Circle. And I'm just walking around, just got a breakfast, just out of the cell, I had my flip-flops on, just out of the cell, and then I just got ushered, this fella, he was like, for justice, he goes, he went, no, you go that way. So I thought, they were just sending us two different ways to, you know, to, you attend to or something. So I've just walked down here, and I've walked into a tap with, there's fucking about seven busies, I went, what's happening? And then I realised, fucking hell, me man bag, I've got my drugs here. But do you mind if I ask about them? A special cue just for the skousers, mate, to tell the truth. Yeah, basically, I think that's what it was, you're just getting filtered through, if you've got a skous voice, you're going that way. Why, because... And you got 14 months for that? 14 months with the notes, two months with the chariot, two months with the exercise, I'm like, fuck me. What you thinking the first night in yourself, football career ruined, boxing career, you're in the jail now, you can't run your business, then does that make you quit? How old were you? 23. So still young, still on that kid, man. Well I was quite naive to get to me, because I've been so focused on this football world, you know, through all that adversity and running the business, and anything you're doing in life, like what I find is when, you know, you're staying in the same realms of working out all week, going out taking drugs, you stay within them walls to get to me, you can find and you don't grow up and you don't learn things, so you're doing the same shit, week in, week out. But when I went to prison and run the business and all stuff like that, fucking hell, I've grew tenfold to get to me, so these little things have failed the drugs test, fucking, you know, whereas now I've felt me in the long run, so I don't even look back angry, I've got no anger towards anyone that put me in this path, someone did phone them drug testers, fucking made up, because I'm so much happier now out of football, well not out of football, still play with Chester, so much happier now in my life, than I was fucking then, let me tell ya. Yeah, because you have still done everything that's got you into trouble. It's just certain things in life happen where you end up getting caught, you just, I think you're honest, I think you're probably telling people you're out drinking, are telling people you've got fake notes, maybe it's just, but you're honest people, there's always fucking weirdos listening, there's always weirdos jealous, there's always weirdos you'll fucking stick in, that's just the way it is live, the scouts are kind of forward that way, same as the grass regions that were kind of opening up front there, a lot of people get fucking free under the bus, yes you've been free under the bus probably, but you have still caused everything in your life that you've done as well. And that's a bit of a poll to swallow that tip, Matt, do you know what? When you actually, you're dubbed up and you think, fuck me, how did I get here? But you got yourself there. Do you know what I mean? You know that yourself. How did you do your sentence? So when I first went in, I knew that I can fight and I'm safe, sort of me, if anyone, you're going into the unknown, you don't have a clue, there's fucking gonna be murder in there, you're gonna be sad. Straight away, do you be saying to me, as you get involved in, don't tell no one you're on foot, because everyone's gonna fucking be on you for doing that. I was like mate, I was just there in the fucking 750 pound a week. I've got no doubt you remain. So I remember the first day I'm sitting, I was on the top fucking landing and I'm looking down, the next time we meet, Joe Cavie got neck for the exact same thing, was in prison for the exact same thing, he got a lesser sentence than me. And we're on this. And as everyone's leaning over looking, some kids, hot sugar water, it was just melted this kid's face. And the kid was the wrong kid, he owed the debt, there's a boy, he owed the debt, this was the first day, so I was thinking, fucking hell, it's going off in here, just melted his face, and then he's walked back over to him, like, is that alright? Do we not owe money no more? And they're like, that's the wrong kid, and this kid is next door, but wanted Joe. So I was going, ah, obviously his face melted with those boiling sugar water. So then I've come back to the pad that day, thinking, fucking hell. So make sure you're on your toes here, but it was sand. All lads down there was sand. And then finally got to Rizly then. Rizly was sand, but there's a crazy story in this James, crazy, which I still find crazy. Now you're big for energy and picking up on things and all stuff like that. So everything in jail was fine. I had one little running at the script with this fella that no one liked, but I could fight, knocks him clean out, fucking, in front of the prison. So all the lads knew to remain, oh, he's fucking, he's Andy this kid. But then, fucking, one day I went for a visit. This is still mad, it's fucking, I find, that's crazy. So I went for a visit and you go from wing to wing, obviously, as you know, they pick up all the lads and then they take us to the visit. So I'm standing here, and me and fellas mate, he weren't a proper mate, but he was, barely filling his name as he was a fucking diamond developer. He'd done loads of jail and he'd done loads of bad stuff. So something about the last 24 years, he'd done 20 years behind the door for different things and it was always to do with fucking violence to the main, but he was a nutter, but he was a boss, boss fella with a big, big heart. And like whenever he'd get done on these big charges, he'd say, you know, he'd never plead insanity or the red mist come over. He'd say, I know exactly what I've done and I've done it for this reason, to get to me, but he was a lovely, lovely fella. And my dad and some of his mates are boxed with his older brother and that was his world, to remain his older brother and he lost him in a car crash. So when I've come to prison, I'm speaking to him, oh, I'd lad where are you from? This is at Brisbane. Yeah, Paddy Lacey went, did you know, dad, you used to do security, you were dormant. And I'm like, oh yeah, he's like, I know your dad and that's his mate. Then I spoke to my dad, he went, fucking hell, he said the last time I seen him, I wouldn't let him into one of the gaps because he had a big knife on him. So I got that palli with this fella and I was training him and he was loving it, he was fucking boss. So we're going on, he had a visit this day and as we're sitting here waiting to go in, this fella's talking, big, fucking fat, twat, just big massive. So I'm looking at him and then he starts like telling a teller, lads, what to do? Hey, get in line here because you want to process this quicker because you want to get on a visit. But stay away James in my stomach. My stomach was fucking turning and it couldn't stand him and I wanted to, so I said something to him like, fucking shut your mouth, you little grass, why are you telling everyone what to do, shut your mouth. So he just like looked at me like that and then he goes on my visor all good, I must have seen a couple of the boys or something. Next day's library tip, you got to go and pick your books. So then all the books are on there, they're all fucking hell. All ones and then there was one book, Joey Barton's book. He'd been to jail just probably a couple of years previous and he's from the same estate, so my family are off in Iton and now Joey a little bit, met him golf a couple of times. So he picks up this book and I hadn't really thought about this. I remember it vividly from when I was a kid but on page swell that mentioned where he was from and he stands out, one of the two fellas got mated off his estate when he was a kid, my uncle. So I hadn't really thought, Francis Perry and Paul Egan and the person that killed him was Sean Jackman. I always remember the name as a kid, I must have been eight years old and one of them was called Esposito because it was a foreign name, three got nicked and one got off and two got lifed off and one was Esposito and then one name I'll fucking never remember because it was an incident on that, Sean Jackman, he met a baseball bat the fella and pissed on them when they were dead. So I had this name and it's all sad and pretty. So I read this book and I'm like, fuck me. So it comes out to Ben the next day on the yard and I go like Ben. I said, you've never come across Sean Jackman in jail have you? You went lad, do you know that fella you hated and you told him when you were going to dat him? I went lad, he's made him my uncle. So like fucking, I'm mad as that, I remain. I would have never got the name if I never read the book and I would have never been just a crazy like connection. Crazy connection, but he was on like this special wing where he was all like, I think he must be cat, he must be because he's on a double murder and he fucking, he got really looked after. So when I've told Ben, he's told the lads, all the lads of like who's had, who's had iPhones, who've went and checked, I'm like, he's a piece of shit, and obviously I'm with all lads. So he somehow got weird, but I don't know, but he was always ducking and diving. He knew that, you know, he got me blocked off I could never go on a visit with him. People were fucking doing things to him and he was getting a few nests grapes and it all turned in the jail. So he was swanning around, thinking he was Joe, big fella, he was big one of them donuts we talked about with all the water and the mussels. And then he went from fucking being up there to down there and everyone screaming, you fucking big dickhead. And there was people on his wing that we would meet them either, you know, they bring things onto our wing. They were like, fucking bring the books around or they would, they worked where you're at your visits. And I was like, tell him that he's got, because he could use our yard that he better get on this yard and he better fucking sort it like a proper man should put them. He's only, he only done it because he was steroid it up and coped up. That was he, the fella was scared of fucking, the fella was scared of anything, you know what I mean? And he wouldn't, he was terrified. So everyone was like, like he's, he's about 11 stone, the kid with the box 11 stone, where he's about 12 stone, he's about 20 odd stone going, fucking get on the yard, terrified, terrified. So everyone was just put like, I have to tell me man that, you know what I mean? I'm not easy in here, I'm not as fucking out of the world. So but it was lucky James, because my mum's older brother, James I can remember it, getting them getting the call. I can remember them, my dad fucking telling my mum, I can remember my mum punching the wall screaming, this scream, I'm like, open my door and she's punching the wall, she's breaking her hands, her hands are broken off. Screaming, because you know. Yeah, it's mad man, my mum's lost two brothers to my dad. Ah, bad tattoo James. So to me, I mean, it's, it's deeply affected my mum to this day, to remain deeply affected to her life. That is the only probably trauma I had in my hands, watching my mum like that and it happened for a couple of years, she was really in a dark place, because she never lost him, he got tough. Yeah, definitely. To get remained. So my mum lost her sister just previously before I went to prison. So I was actively doing, I was trying to get my hands on this fella because I wanted to really hate him. A bit of revenge. A bit of revenge as anyone in this world. And he was going back and he was telling the screws, this fella said this to me, this is said this, and he was telling them. So they were coming to me and my dad going, look, he's saying, I was like, I don't know that fella from Adam. I don't know what you're on about. I'm just a footy player in jail, doesn't mean that I just want to go home. And they were like, fuck it. I said, I think he's not on the bend. And he would believe in me for a period. And then they come out in the walkie-talkie, he must have found out that fella was, obviously some money made, it was my own cup of, I do believe that my auntie kept me from him in prison because there was a few near scrapes where we nearly got close and Joe, he was definitely Joe, pressed charges and stuff like that. And I'd have done a lot more jail and then the footy in the walkie-talkie would have been over. So I was doing what my mum's saying, don't even bother, he's already ruined. Joe, fucking hell. Not just the murder, Joe, their kids, Joe, my cousin's fucking. Bad. Yeah, my cousin's dad, he's just getting to Frenwick now. Joe, been shot, I had loads of murder. Joe, that's all ties in with that. So there's a lot of fucking. So ripple effect, all the whole. The ripple effect, that's what I'm looking for, James. Get to me. So there's a lot of fucking tingles on with that. So luckily, that was, I never got my hands on him. Thankfully, I've been able to come out and pick the pieces up, but I do think that was a dead clothes shave. Because if you put it on him, there's a chance you might not have stopped. Exactly. And I've never done that in my life, anyone I've ever sat down. And then you're no different. Exactly. And then I'm stuck in there and that's what my mum and dad was saying to me in there. But you can't be consumed by it because that's all I can think about for 24 hours a day, that he was in within close vicinity. And if I get my hands on him, he's getting it. But, you know, I wasn't supposed to get my hands on him. That's the truth, because I was supposed to come out and make something of my life to get to him, which I'm on the way, I'm no one as it stands. But, you know, I've worked my hardest to come out. I wouldn't say you're no one. Like, you're very well respected. Everybody in the kingdom knows you. You clearly wear your heart and your sleeve, but you are fucking crackers, mate. You can see boxing as the perfect fit for you. Exactly. To then battle your demons, feeling right. And like you say, you get that sense of you don't need to prove yourself anymore because you're in everyday sparring, you're scrapping. And it's like, it's like a frustration. And every man, I believe every man should go and do some sort of combat sport because I believe it. But when I used to train at the grip house during my time, I used to think everybody I hang around with, they're all just fucking, they're all big and they've done a bit of damage. But even when we're out, we're all loud and daft. When I started to go at the grip house, man, I used to look at these people and I used to think, look, how the fuck can these people fight? And then when you see them fight, they're stone cold killers. And then the way they present themselves from outside of the gym, you would not think nothing of it. And then I started to realise they have nothing to prove why because they can't handle themselves. So now I know the people who do act like that and just fucking muppets, the loud ones, the daft ones, try to use a gun at a knife. As it's just against that mask, whether it's steroids, it's a mask to try and protect. I see that now with like certain people. They're always, they pull on this like front or like they try and be angry or unapproachable or trying to intimidate them. You see all this plava and it's just, I just see it as weakness now as I'm growing up. I just think, you know, you're scared, really. That's why you're carrying on like that. You're scared or... That is a mask. When you're starting to get out of prison a couple of weeks before, what were you thinking? When you're thinking, okay, I'm going to knock her down, change my life or what? Well, they come to me a week before and they went, look, bang to rights, we know that. Everything you've told them to lie to remain with this fella with all the carry on because they said they had a dossier. He reported every single bit of information. So he was stacking you in? So he was stiffening every little bit of information that he did, someone said this, someone said that, this is going to happen. So we put all this in. So in the end, the fella, the screw come and went, like, we know what your uncle know. So we understand that, you know, you're not just bullying someone. So you're going to get your tag. But if one of your mates, because those old people don't do madness to him, because I was, everyone liked me, I was a nice kid. But if any of you mates do anything to him or say anything to him, it's getting so hard for you because they're getting for a cat eye. Was he, they get like 150 grand just a year to look after him. To look after me, you say a cat say, a cat say I was. Yeah, 40 grand. 40 grand, you get the main. So who's getting sent down the road? You, because he did a get the main. So he just the fellow sort of the tag, the screw was like, look son, you know, you can go and make something for yourself. And basically the chat would just add, if you get your hands on your head or whatever or something, you're just going to get your tag to have, you're going to have to do another four and a half months jail and you're going down to Bristol. So in the end they got out and then I thought, right, I'm fucking picking up the pieces. Everyone in jail was like, what are you doing in here? You're a good footie player. You're a good boxer. You've got to clear. Come on. Everyone was willing for me to do well. When I was in prison, my old team, they won the league, Arlington. That was all my team mate. So every week I'm clicking on the scores. One again, one again. So when I come out, he was top of the league and I was going in, thought I'm straight into training. At the top of the league, they're going to win the league. I come out and it formed me mate, who was with me at Glastonbury, Dean. And he always said, like, why is your band keep playing Sunday league? Just, I know it's no standard, but, you know, keep yourself fit. I was doing my boxing, but keep your eye in football. And I went, lad, I'm never playing Sunday league, but I come out and thought, you know, what could I do with the game? Because I had really no gym at all in prison. Why? No gym? This prison was back to front. We were understaffed, so it was 23 hour bang up to remain. And I think the only thing I got to do was badminton once a week. That's a tough sentence. She had to be behind the door for five months, James. Yeah, but it's so tough mate. Yeah, I only done a few three months. I was in every fucking hall in Balinese. Every fucking hall. I was in A-hall, E-hall as well, that's where the beasts are. But you're there for one night, when you just go to the prison, just like an overnight thing. You're sent A-hall, get packed out of A-hall for fighting. Get sent to B-hall when that was a 23 hour dubber. I was only there for two days and I fucking hated it. I asked for a request. They gave us a job in the gym. I tried to get gear slung over the wall. I told my part to cancel the tickets. I genuinely, I used to see the films, and you think nobody listens to the calls. I says, look, cancel those tickets. The gardener's not, he says, something not making today. I didn't know. Time to sell and get back into B-hall. And it was fucking painful. It was horrible. It was 23 hour dubber, it was fucking brutal. That was the norm for those old jokers. No, that was horrible, man. Bristol, Bristol was sad. I was on gyms straight away, the screws like that. You want to get in that gym, go to that. I was getting like three gyms a week. I remember speaking to my dad. I went, dad, it's sad, you know. I think I was boxing up candles to give you shit as you are, I was like, and I was in the gym three times a week. And I spoke to my dad. I was like, dad, it's sad, dear. Don't worry about me. You know, it's sad to be positive. And he went, fucking hell, it sounds like you love it there. You don't want to make this a life choice, do you? I was like, no, dad, there is what it is. So it comes out on the Thursday, I think, and then this or Friday, sorry. And then I had this game where we made a phone call, and you know what you said? Get back playing footy for you. I said, I'll play this weekend. So I'm out, and I pick up the pieces, dead motivated, couldn't wait to get going. Just knew I could play football. I'm going to be in the football league. Let's have it, because I wrote to the manager saying, no, I'm sorry about this, I'm locked after. And they said, come on, as soon as you get out, get training with us. So it comes out, playing against your own Liam Smith, box out, beefy. So it was Sunday League team, and I just done 10 minutes into the game, just turned, my knee just went, snap me crucial, as I fell over, dislocated and broke my arm. But I had jail, 48 hours. So I'm trying to fucking make things right here, and I'm standing there, and the person, well, laying down, when the person down right, with the broken arm snapped, knee snapped. So that fucked me up. I went and got an operation on that. So that held up the football. But, you know, I was always trying to train, get like, thing, you know, and that I put it up to the devil, Tyson Fury, didn't it mate? That's where I met Tyson Fury, to remain and had the little thing with him and that. So was that Sunday point meeting him? I wouldn't say it was a turning point, because I was in the gym. So, you know, I was doing something, James. I was actually doing something, but it made, he never turned around to me like, son, you can do this, you never done that. He was lading life calender. As I've turned up to the gym, he was in an aisle, jagged, this proper aisle, jagged. Oh my God, so we made this, Tyson Fury, so he jumps out and had that little bit of rapport with the gym, he trained in the gym. Franny Hans, that was his dad's coach, as a pro. And his first ever spout, he spouted Franny's son, Antony Hans, who was a boss footballer, played with Mike Husner, Evan and his best mate. And he, believe it or not, put him down with the body shots, he was being sick. So, Antony's got the story of, when you see Tyson Fury saying, you know, he's the hardest man in the world. I've put him down with the body shots, you know what I mean? Which is nice. So, yeah, he just told his story, and we're really chillin' it off, Joe, like, we're been through the same things, that you have to speak to them, you have to go through that, and the band. And he was 27 stone, he was ginormous, and he just had so much life in him, had everyone laughin', and he's in Liverpool, and he was, people were saying, didn't you get beat by David Price, Joe, as an amateur? And he's like, I'm gonna go and see David Price, right after this, which he did, he found him, got his number off someone in the gym, and when I met him, I had a coffee, and he put it up on the Instagram, but he was just ladin' life, and he had everyone laughin', and he just said, look at me lad, I'm 27 stone, and he said, I'm gonna lose all this weight. First, I'm gonna knock out Deontay Wilder, I'll knock out Tyson Fury, he said, I'm knockin' them all out, oh shit. So, I'm just like, you're sick. So, when I walked out the gym, thinking, yo, dodgy knee, dodgy arm, he is fuckin', I think he must've been closer to death, because he didn't look healthy, do you know what I mean? But he was on his waist, and they felt minuscule then. He was still world champion when they kinda went off the rails, he's never stopped being world champion, obviously he went up to the top. He's the linear genie, that's what he says, so. One of the greatest heavyweights of all time, man, and I think when he beats Josh, I don't know if that's a tough fight, but if he beats you sick now, he'll be up there as top three, I believe best heavyweights of all time, especially if you want, he's come back, well, if any way, he talks, way presents himself, the crazy fam, we're like unbelievable. He just had this room, they're all like 20, 30 fellas in the changing room, you know what's funny, and I don't really want to say, but this is just how mad he is. So we're talking, and just like these 20, 30 fellas listening to his story, and he just, but you think I've got a big cock, don't you? Wrong, he just pulled the sack, and everyone was like, what is up with you? He went, Frank Warren's gonna pay for the dick in large, you know what I mean? Everyone was just crying, and I come home, took me off, I'm like, dad, do you know him? I said, you could drop him off, anywhere in the world. I said, and he would just get people on his sack, because he's just done lovely fellas, they're the main, funny, fucking. So, yeah, I got an operation then, James on me knee, got sepsis, was in hospital for weeks, lost three stone. So I come out on a peg of the pieces, but everything had done, I was just getting worse. Snapped my cruise ship, which is obviously clear in the football, the skaters broke my arm, fucking, got an operation, got sepsis, lost three stone, fucking ended up snapping my other cruise ship, broke my cheekbone any, and it's like, just things weren't happening, then seems like the last year or so, that, you know, it started to turn now, do you get what I mean? That, you know, I've got a bit of luck now, and I'm running with probably loads of hard work as well, do you get what I mean? I've put loads of hard work in, regardless of injuries, I've stayed in the gym, done what I could, if one leg's broke, use the other leg, if Joe, one arm, use the other, so I've worked tremendously hard, and I've had a fair bit of luck, you see, what's the name, Molly may come out this week, just work as I had in 24 hours, you know, you do need luck, I don't care what anyone says, do you know what I mean? She's got a bit of a touch, getting on love island, I've had a lot of luck. She's made that luck as well, to do that. Yeah, definitely. She has got so much stuck for that. Yeah, this week. Understand. But you need a little bit of control, don't you? Understand, look, understand what she's trying to say, everybody has got the same 24 hours a day. She's 22, do you know what I mean? Some people get more lifted up, but I know people, it's had millions, and had all the opportunities in life and lost that, also no homeless men that have changed their life and become multi-millionaires. So I get what she's saying, everybody does have the same 24 hours a day, people are giving her shit, I get it, she went on love island, but she's still got to put herself in the limelight, plus she's still got to go through all the shit that she's receiving online, the hate, still got to go through all the modeling shoots, and the listen, yes, people might think, that ain't an easy life as well, from the outside, people might think it is, but the shit that she will get, and she did get a lot of shit for that, it was just the way she percented it, but the way she said it, yeah, of course, on this, there's probably loads of shit now, I probably won't watch it back as I cringe, but I go, oh my God, why'd you say that to get the main, but it's hard, innit? Yeah, it's life, man, but... So when you started becoming injury-free, when you started coming through the ranks, just promoting your sponsor there, wow, I had it right there, like half-life, half-life master, typical scouser, I was going to come with all my jumpers for work and all that, look, we will go anyway, four grafts north of Blue Floor. I know, a Jamie Rito's involved in that as well, great guy, man, that is actually a great, they send me boxes all the time, so no promotion, mate, I literally, like, hydrate, well, hydrate? Mm, well, hydrate, isn't it? Yeah, getting out of the fight, bastard. So when you started getting fit, started to feeling the tide was turning, did you stop drinking and taking gear as well, though? Oh yeah, totally so. What time, man, for me, was that little time, in prison, 23 hour bang-up, if forces, like, realisation on yourself, I was in a single pad, still sighing like a nut on every day as I could, but like, I was kind of just thinking every day, oh, the fuck, you know, I was playing my team atop of the league, oh, I ended up here, don't know man. I never felt like I deserved to be there, I felt like a couple of people, you know, the FA, the judge could have looked more, you know, fondly on me, they were quite stern with what they give me, but I was reading good books and kind of just looking in with what you do now, I'm changing James, it's scary how fucking a look back and people don't meet me now, they don't really know me anymore, and they're like, that's the way you think, and how you carry yourself out, you're miles away from what probably it was when I was 22, 23, but I think that doesn't stop, to get to me, and you know, well, I am now, analysing myself, and just trying to get better all the time, and it started in jail, and I dissected where I went wrong, and where I was doing, and you know, if you keep hanging around with people, not distil me mate, my mate's still my mate since I was a kid, but I don't go and have 10 pints of them anymore, don't drink hardly anymore, do you get to me, because you know, you keep going the barbers, you get your hair cut, so I just kind of give them a wide bath, I've met a fantastic girl as soon as I come out, and me bed doing with no love, so I knew her when we was kids, she was best mate with me cousin, then when I went to prison, a lad lived on her estate, and went lad, do you think about your, lad, she's always had a boyfriend there, she said, if she's been single now, she'll have a boyfriend, you've missed a boat, and I was like, fuck you, and I was going to ask him, I was going to say, lad, what's her address, because I'll write to her, but the lad's will just came me on the wing, so I never said nothing, comes out straight on her, oh yeah, fucking hell, I can't believe he gave you a prison, I've been waiting, sound, so I met a boss girl in James, and I always think about this, Joe Briancliffe, the great manager, obviously he used to try and get his players married early on, because what it brings, what comes with it, you've got a bed with someone who wants it too, and Joe, they bring out a different side yet, which most definitely has, to get them in, and she's been a fucking saving grace for me, really, she's been fantastic, as much as I matured myself, some of it's been forced upon me, because she's very matured me, but all over the same age, Joe, she's clued up, she's so successful, James, she does damn well with her own nails, she's so driven, so... Do you want to promote the business, bro? Oh yeah, she's just got a shop, Woo Nails, she is by Sarah on Instagram, she's got like 50K followers, she does damn well, but she's open her own salon, so... He's well promoted, mate, he promoted everything else, bro! Ha ha ha ha! I thought you were coming on here to tell your story, mate, I'm just coming here to promote everybody's business, so... She will be successful, she's that driven, she's obsessed, that's all we talk about in the business, so... So do you think that's been a big part of having another 50% come in where you've decided to focus? You don't want to lose her, so... Yeah, I'm a little... If somebody's successful and somebody doesn't take any shit, you know if you step out in the rain, you're done. You're done, and you need it to get the man out. A few of me mates recently, Joe and the Bairds have been younger, and he made for me, like, lad, I think I need the Baird a bit more mature, you know? Cos she's got you into shape to the range, so... Yeah, I'm lucky in that sense, and I've really grew up and the way I just think about everything now, so I was impressed by No Beds, James, when I was young. Same, bro. You always grow up and then, like, you look back where we're at now and you think... How gullible you are in it. I was impressed by Absolute Tools, to be made. So when was your first pro fight? So, my first pro fight was... October this year. Last year? Last year, sorry for fail, yeah. And how was that then? Everything you've been through, from football career, injuries, prison, drug tests, terrain, tunneling, pro and... Was there anything else before it? You think anything was going to go wrong? Injuries or jail or anything like that? There's a little bit of butterflies in there, but I've had about 19, I think. No, I've had 17, I've had to fight so I've been through it. Having a fight on the streets is exactly the same as having to fight anything. You get them a little bit there, but it's going off, so you're fighting anyway and it is what it is. But I've been... I always knew I should have boxed as a kid, James. I always had the same ego. If you're fighting with everyone all the time, Tion, you used that energy that you're doing and it was obviously something I wasn't scared to do. Have a fight with someone. Don't go to a boxing gym when you're kids. My dad kept me away from it, so it happened late on in life, so it was like, finally, I'm here, I'm a pro fighter, well, I'm going to be. And I couldn't stop smiling. James swear to God, I walked out to the ring walk and just smiling at everyone. Finally, the face-off where you're supposed to look mean with the fella, I can't stop smiling at him because I'm just made up. Even clocked me, the fella was massive. He was too big, I shouldn't have thought him, really. But he clocked me in the second round with two good punches and you're like, oh, like, fucking hell, that's not part of the game. I said, Tion, I'm just smiling still. I couldn't stop smiling all the way through. And it was unbelievable to finally do it. Sold a load of tickets, I've had loads of support. Probably because of, you know, as you said, I don't pull no punches when I speak. I'm just, I am if you don't like me. It's sad, but a sold a load of tickets, sold a load of tickets to me second one and then Eddie in, put a show on in Liverpool. He needed whoever sells the most tickets in Liverpool. Who can we get on? And it was me, so I got on the maturing bill, which is a bit weird from going from Joe, the Olympia in Liverpool, good venue. But then these ones in the Echowarina where there's a press conference, where there's a, it's different stuff, might let me tell you. What's the best feeling you've had, Eddie Hernavin, or scoring a post-move game? Was your dad there at the boxing? Fucking hell, yeah. He's probably by the bar, though. He got the expensive tickets, we're pretty bad, but now he was there. Eh, see, I've kind of, Joe, when I was knocking people out in the ring, me two little brothers boxed. That's probably the best feeling I've ever had, watching them boxing when. I don't know why that is in close fights. That's the best feeling I've ever had. But when I used to, I was knocking loads of people out in here, which is, once I got to sat on my ass first round and I got to get up and knock the lad out in, like, 30 seconds. That's the best feeling I've ever had, that. And he's me mate now, Sean, he's sad. Get on with, sorry, I knocked it out, Joe, but I did. Oh, you're mad. And then the post-move goals are close second, but the last three fights, I've had a fantastic feeling, but not unlike them. But them feelings will come, Joe. If you're fighting for a title in your chaos, I'm on. I just know the feeling's going to be better. Yeah. It's fucking some career, you're far later. So you've got a book there, you've got a follow, you've got so much. How old are you now, 28? 28 now, yeah. It's a great age, that's the mature age. I always say that, but between the ages of 28 and 35, there's real good ages where you want to, if you really want to make something of your life, that's a real crucial age. Well, I think you peak a little bit later in the boxing as well. 30, I'm not 31. 30, 30, 32, do you know what I mean? So where do you see yourself going with the boxing? As high as possible, do you know what I mean? I'm aiming for world titles, Joe. Some lads, I find it mad that, Joe, they turn over, pro, and then they get asked, oh, I'm just, Joe, we'll just see where it leads. You know, like, come on, we've all got to have aims and goals, and, you know, I want my first title next year in 2024. So I want another good year of learning, probably have five or six fights, maybe even at the end of this year, I don't know. But, yeah. Who's the British title? Hold on. At the minute, I'm Williamson, I'm a lad up in Durham. But, you know, I've done plenty of rounds with beefy. Beefy is for me, Joe. I love all the scouts' boxers. I never really, I did watch, Joe, old-school boxers, but I always looked up to, like, Tony. The Smith brothers, Derry Matthews, and beefy kind of the one, and I always watch them, the way he fights is sick to remain. So, I've done loads of rounds with beefy, and I can get to that standard one day. It's going to take me a lot of hard work, but that's the standard I'm trying to get to. You get to me, it's for Canelo, world champion. I reckon he's going to win another world title. He's got a good fight against Jesse Fargas, but coming up, he'll do it again. Fargas is good, but beefy is big and strong, Joe. Why do you think scouts are so good at fighting? I just think you've got to fight in the pool. I grew up in one of the better areas, but I was still fighting. If you're looking for a fight, when I put up that matroom thing, John Danny Vaughan, the coach. Yeah, well, Danny. So, Danny's wrote to me saying, lad, I've been waiting for you to box your whole life, because that is son Daniel. We was the same age. I know, Dom. Yeah, and Dom, yeah. So, we fucking, we were all the same age, and I was fighting all the time. So, we used to watch it with my dad. He and me and my dad made to go, eat your boxing, my dad wouldn't let me. He said, finally, you're fucking boxing. So, and you've always been a boxing, another 40 player. So, I don't think people are surprised of you. No one heard of me 20 years from school, eight. And he said, these are probably boxing, they'll be like fucking sensible, right? Because the dad retired, didn't he? The dad just retired there. Oh, Georgie, yeah. So, Georgie trained my dad. And he's 80s, so it was 86, 87. Fucking hell. What a fella. It was Jazzers' fight, wasn't it? Jazz, I don't know, another fucking age, another crack. Jazzers is about time. But all the scousers, man, like after the scouser, like Tony Bell, you fucking Paddy, Baddy, Dan Tull, they're all fruitcakes, all fucking diamonds, though. Oh, absolutely, you've got Molly, and you've got so many scousers coming through, even the UFC, like. About a half, yeah. Paddy's taking it by storm, isn't he? Fucking love Paddy, man. He's crazy, isn't he? Just put it in the camera, same as this interview as well, people connect to it, because we're thinking, wow, I'm blown away. A lot of people watch interviews as well, and don't expect what they see, and they go, fuck me, that was brilliant. A lot of people take things out of everything that people say, because you've clearly got to... It's an inspirational story. It's just keeping your feet grounded, and then going for that world title, and then you've got, as I kind of told you, so it's a relief, but I don't think with your nature that it's enough for you, you just kind of want to conquer the world, isn't it? It's just mad, there's loads of people messaging me now, you haven't half-inspired me, loads of people, well, especially going up to that fight week to remain when everyone's in tune with it. I'm not qualified to tell anyone what to do, but this is my story, I watch all your podcasts, so I'm with all mostly the fighting lads or whatever, and you relate to certain things, and you listen to certain things, and you go, fucking hell. So, I think we're all up to each other. But you're doing something about it now, and that's a great thing. You see, you're clearly a good guy, man, who wears his heart on his sleeve, you're a bit fucked up, like the rest of everybody. It's very slow and scary, so it's definitely something to walk down here, man, you're thinking, how the fuck is so crazy? But yeah, all diamonds, 100%, all fucking nerf you're like, I say I've got so much respect for everybody that's been on this podcast, but the scousers, there's always a connection there with that. They're just kind of fucked up, and it's a beautiful thing to see. I see loads of me, Joe, when you put when the lads are on, and you listen to certain things, it's just like it's debilatable to them, especially the scouselads, obviously. But you're still young, and to go for a world title shot, man, it's a beautiful thing, and I believe in you, that you will, and... And work's gonna get me dead. Plenty of hard work in between, but I love it. How's your dad's nerves with you? Is he more content now with you, or is he still on edge? Getting those form calls. Your dad knows everything that's wrong with you, when you've got drug tests to do now, something like that. You can't believe what I've turned into, to be honest. You'll be proud of you, does it say that? No, plenty of times. Oh, does it? He watches just anything that's on me, of YouTube. He just sits down and watches me, watching me, things that I think that. You've watched this 200 times, you know what I mean? Football, boxing, whatever, and... Joe, he's got me two younger brothers who were promising young footballers, so... But they'll look up to you then. Do you feel a bit of pressure on you from that as well? It was lovely, I went to my mum's the other day, and my mum turned around and said, I wish Sharon padded her up and fucking have kids, to remain, I can't wait. And my little brother, Shae, he's 15, had a man United, he turned around and said, I don't want them to. I need that Patrick right now, to help me with my footy career. So, I do, therefore, we're so close, me and my two little brothers. That's all over there, we are. James, I understand, there's no way we're family people. People didn't have much. They might not have much, but their kids addressed from there. So, in design, and they look at, because probably they never had, there's a kid they wanted and they give it to their kids. So, my little brothers, they've got me wrapped. If they need, though, if they need anything, I'll give them my last pound, though, to remain, because I just see myself in them. So, because I'm more in touch with what's going on, I'm 17 today, Lewis, a bit where they are. And Shae's 15, no, 10 and 15, you know, I know what to look for, when they're probably falling into their own crowd, they're not doing things right. So, I like to think, they do deaf or listen, they do deaf or listen to me, they do, yeah. Because your mum is well that, losing her brother and mother is hard as well. So, if you're going into a prison and getting done for drugs and losing your football career, then it's always going to back your mind that it potentially could happen to you in a night out, because you might think, people with money wankers carry players, do you know what I mean? So, it makes you, that's the thing as well, that when my mum was going through all her struggles, I was adding more misery to that, adding more misery towards the pain that she was already going through. But then when you change your life and start doing good, they start changing, I hope that's changing, man. So, I think my mum was thinking, man, that time when I was in prison, like what has happened to your son? You know, you've went from, you were thinking you were going to prison for the Premier League team six months ago, and now you're saying, if I get my hands on this man, it was like a pure crossroads in life, and she was like begging me, don't ruin your own fucking life. But it's mad this life, though James and energy and synchronicity, loads of different things. And I just think, when I was stood in that ring, I was supposed to be there at that right point in my life to get to me, and it was all supposed to happen. Mike was supposed to happen that way if I'd listened earlier when I was a kid. You're leaving the brilliant another way, though. Could have, yeah, but if I had a boxed earlier as a kid, I'd have been, you know, probably a little bit further ahead to get to me, but it happened, and it happened when it was supposed to happen, so. When's your next fight? So, my next fight's March the 5th, I'm open now, but I went into that last fight with the broken hand that I have now, a boxed two weeks before, I sold a load of tickets, fucking 40, 50 grand worth of tickets. Couldn't tell everyone I wear a boxed one, so I didn't even get next raid. I just said, look, I'm not punching this right hand next two weeks till fight night. Lo and behold, put a picture up on that, that me hands are gone, but it was this hand that was broken on both sides, so that's resting up, doing a bit of active recovery, but March the 5th, I'm open, I'm gonna be back outing. And you're playing for Chester now? I'm playing for Chester, so. The whole football, other me, James, when, you know, you wanna be in the Premier League and it's your own, everything. Joe, I've got a business, I've got me boxing, I enjoy football now, cos. How the fuck do you juggle at all? Dad, that is the one thing, so. What would you do if you couldn't train? How would you, when you don't exercise, do you have to be around the bed? Now, there's all videos of me, when me knee snapped in my arms, and I cast them, I'm just training one leg, and me make videos, and I said, that's not normal, you should be around the couch, but I've got to do something. Joe, the way I see it is in the army, James, you know, there's lads, fucking brave men, over there, bullets whistling past their head, and they come back, and if they sat on that bed, I've got a family at home, what do they do? They clean, they clean everything, it's spotless. Keep busy. Keep busy, you've got to keep busy, the more they sit and you be still, my mind will think over, and you probably make problems that aren't even real. So, I love being busy. What is the plan, though, once you start moving through the ranks in boxing, start making series though, then? You've got to make a decision. Of course, yeah, and boxing will always get Joe the nod over the football, because, Joe, football, I'm not finished, I've had seven new ups, two new ankle, it is what it is. I'm a good player at that level still, but as I stand them in the sixth tier of English football. So, there will be a point when that comes, but at that point, James, you're probably fighting twice a year, if you're lucky. So, what are we going to do for the rest of them? So, I can always play football, and when it comes, you know, a month before, you know, beefy plays, fucking Sunday League, the week before, two weeks before, you went and boxed in Russia, got a flight on boxed, played the next day after having 12 rounds with the world, but he's different gear, he's different gear, so... He's a great fighter, man. Oh, he's fantastic, fantastic, so... So, what happens when you're in fight camp? So, you're fighting in March, you just keep playing football? I keep playing football, like the last ones. Like, I get played decent down, he plays all my wage, my bills, just to get the main, so... So, it's not called in boxing just now? I'm not here, I'm not in the cost means to get the main. I sell all the tickets and I make a little bit of money, but, you know... But that only lasts, there's only one blast. Of course, and then I'm not fighting out of boxed at the start of... October? October. The last fight was the start of December, now I'm not going to box so much, so, you know, you've got... December, January, you don't hear nothing, so it's unfair for anyone that I find and kind of gets spoke about, you know, you want to pack that full team, well, not really, mate, you wouldn't ask no one else to pack in the day job after only having three fights to get the main, so... Have you sent him out to your room? No, I haven't signed, hopefully, I think, hopefully, when I get to a point, if I keep selling tickets and I keep doing well, I'm going to force a big promoter's hand where, you know, he's doing loads. I'm earning the money at the end of the day, so to me, it would be ticket sales. So, I wouldn't ever, James, if I'd waited for the boxing, I'd never have been on here, because, you know, everyone wants to know your story, you need the storyline in boxing, unless you're a superstar out the amateurs that everyone knows anyway, they want a gold medal at Rio or whatever. So, people aren't interested to get the main, so after my story's come out, and everyone's fucking on me saying what a story that is, but it doesn't really sound that bad to me, because obviously I've lived there all night. Ha-ha-ha! So, I'm getting a big following now with this, so it'll force one of the rants to go, bloody hell, he's investable, he looks good, sells tickets, we can do something with him. So I think that'll come over the next four or five fights. Yeah, it'll happen this year. It's an investment, people love those stories, you're not the only one, look at the Tyson Fury story, look at that story, world champion and absolutely fucked it. People relate to him more, why? Because the majority of people take gear, and it's 100% of the time if you've not took gear, you know some of it's took it. Fucking right, it's been in prison. I had the job interview today on, just with the big, I won't even mention them because I mightn't get the job, but, you know, and it was four people in a zoom and I was just getting grilled, James, about what I'd done, like making out I was pure scum in the air from what I'd seen. You've been to university because she was a well-spoken man, you've been to uni, you've probably either seen it, done it yourself, come on, don't like chastise me in front of all people, and luckily you know, I can speak in talks, people are just like fucking hell, I was like, ah, she made me feel a cunt there. So you know what I mean? I've cunt that was like five years ago, you know, when it happened, fuck me. But the fucking people like down at you won't always do that, unless it'll happen in five years. You'll get 99% love, but people will still, if you want a world title, you'll get some assholes who say, oh, but he was in prison, or he don't necessarily get it, that's what I'm meaning. It was funny, one of the first videos I ever done when I saw him and me with motor Steve, and Steve's sad, he's like Steve, and he puts up like this little thing, it's a little video where you get to meet Paddy Lee, he said, no, not the stuff that we spoke about, just boxing stuff, and like a girl comments on it saying, well, at least we know, who will bring the drugs and, the drugs and black notes to the bath, or you think what possesses you, why are you even asked, you know what I mean? But there is people like that, as you said, that are just... We used to do everything with fake scores as well, I used to give my friend a minute of dancing, he used to get to jail, it was a nightclub called Silver, batting Glasgow mate, and I'd give him, go up and get around, they'd have come up and get around mate, and they'd get nabbed, and they'd have to go down mate, and they'd jail first at night, and they'd have to get out to the Monday, done for fraud, but I was only like, there's like four notes, five notes, I thought maybe just take them off you, but clearly fucking don't. Walking, yeah. I wait, well, if I knew that I had them, then you wouldn't put yourself in that situation. But obviously, when we've all been nice loads of people, and people have found out, there were scouts that let me tell you, digging holes in glass for me, burying these notes, because they must have had them then, didn't want to get caught with them, but... What do you think now, talking about your life, it's not just, you're still young man, you're still young, the whole one thing... I'm full of fucking desire to succeed, and do well to get them in, so... But I just know the way, the way I live my life now, that, you know, regardless of nothing really happens, in football, boxing, I'm happy, and I've got a business that's growing, and I'm in a fucking good place, mentally, physically, I feel fucking great James, day to day, sort of, man, I'm lucky. Because there's so many people who have been in your position as well, that, especially from Liverpool, I've had Billy Kaney on, played way earlier, turned alcoholic at 19, Big Paul Kelly, UFC fighter, end up in jail at potential to be fucking... You could have been a UFC star. Exactly man, like, it's hard to see, but you have got, not just one chance, you've had so many different chances, I believe because you've got a good energy that you're always going to present you the opportunities. In school, it was like, how I made it out of school, though, getting through out, was a miracle, and all my mates say, oh, you should've... Because, like, I was always just honest and sad, and... The cheeky chap, you know, the mother-boy role kind of thing. Yeah. And I think that's why I sell so many tickets as well, because people think, he's all I like to him. Well, I like to think that. Do you mind buying them all when I get knocked out? But life is going good, do you see me in a good place? Your story is unbelievable. I thoroughly enjoyed it. It's great energy, like, normally, sometimes, interviews can be draining, because I'm quite dark, a lot of my stuff is quite dark, but even though there's a bit of darkness in there, it's still good. There's a positive spin-in, isn't it? Yeah, it's always positive, and I look forward to seeing the rest of your journey. I believe you'll be world champion. Thank you, you guys. And now you're all, boy, man, I don't know how to keep track. Oh mate, he is a colorful character. You need to get him on here, you know, you need to fucking have him on there. So, your fakes in March, where has the fakes? It's in Liverpool, Olympia. So back to the smaller whole shows, till maybe a Skybox or a match room, they put a show on in Liverpool, and I'll be able to jump on there. And you want to put on anything else before you finish, give anybody a shout-out? No, no, that is basically my story, and like, if anyone is in them situations, the main thing for me is, today's news is tomorrow's fish and chip paper, you think at that time, and you're going through these things, which I was, found the drugs test, going to prison, it's all in the paper, you think, oh my God, you know, what's going to happen? Time will sort them things out, just do whatever you need to do, and as time goes, it's a healer, and look up in two months from now, you'll feel a little bit better about things. Yes, brother, listen, Paddy Bife, I covered all the detail yesterday, brother. Listen, God bless you, good guy. Thank you. I'll come down to your feet in March as well. Defon, Brinksad, that's it. How can people get your social media links? So I'm on Twitter, just Paddy Lacey, on Twitter and on Instagram, type that in and I'll come up. Sweet, brother, God bless you. Thank you, James, Dan, and see you all, bro. Save that laugh.