 So, we are on segment two of the week, which was, is there hope? And the answer was yes, and so I think we're done. Nice seeing you. I feel so much better. Thank you. We can wait for Seth Godin's new edited book, Almanac in June, and it'll all be self. Makes sense. I'm going to return to your regular schedule program, which is already in progress. I just, I just turned to my husband. I just bought all this food. And I, and sometimes we're talking of it. We recently were talking about like where we might move or where we might, you know, just to, we're in a different phase of life. We're just starting, you know, empty nesting. And so I just said, you know, day like today. And so in, in New York right now, it's much warmer than it's been. But it's like just for a day here, it's going to, it's like 57 degrees. It feels like spring. It's not the right time a year for this. So, and it's happened a couple of times recently. And so I said, really, we don't need to like move to North Carolina because I just saw North Carolina is going to move to us. And I said, Oh, and by the way, all this food I just bought, make sure you savor it because that may not exist in 30 years. And he's like, I had to go back to work. He's like, what, what, what have you been watching or doing? Right. Nice contribution to your day. There you go. I mean, it's, it's. Yeah, Al Gore was talking about, you know, the change in food sourcing and the change in insect patterns and the change in all of that stuff. You know, 20 some odd years ago. And Al Gore's mentor. Yep. From, from, from Scripps Institute. I can't remember his name. No, not this Richard Newstead is one of his mentors. Roger Revelle. Roger Revelle. That's, that was the main, that was the main one. Yeah. Yeah. Roger Revelle who also. Charles Keeling. Keeling curve. So. You're not on train either that or you're faking being in a home really, really, really cleverly. I just got back home. I got back home early. Welcome back. Yes. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. So as I mentioned on our earlier OGM call, I was. The whole idea of starting with the food system. I think is the right way to go for many reasons, not just for one reason. In part, you know, when, in the beginning, when they were talking about. My love. It's okay when they were talking about, you know, the chickens and the beaks, you know, I kind of left my body a little bit. Like I knew what they were talking about. I didn't need to hear it again. You know, I've been. You know, I eat meat and everything I buy, you know, the certified humane eggs because for a long time. I have, you know, in my model, in my mental model of how I believe the world works. I don't want to eat the meat of something that has suffered. But I'm digressing a little bit because the point I really want to make is when I've spoken to people that I most disagree with politically, the one thing we have in common is our love for our animals. So to me, that's one uniting point among many. I mean, there are many, many reasons I think food is a good place to live. I mean, it's a good place to live. It's a good place to live. It's a good place to live. Having to do with creativity. I mean, just so many different reasons. So that, that kind of felt like this is good. I'm glad there. I was happy that this was what number two was about. And the other thing that I want to share is when they talked about the three regrets that most people have. And it was very, very conscious, you know, for those of you that know a little bit about me. Six years ago, I took care of the first one, which was to not let fear hold me back. And I totally blew up my life. I certainly express anything I need to express, even when it's difficult. And I have separated whatever the second one was, I think it was something about, oh, I don't work hard. I don't work hard and I don't apologize anymore. I did apologize for that, but not anymore. So I feel like I don't have those three regrets. So I, I feel good about that. And yeah. Anyone else just for starters. One thing that struck me in this episode, and it's totally an aside, and it's not a good thing. Is a law loose verbal tick of saying, you know, sometimes four times within one sentence. And very, very quickly, but the transcription captured them all. So if you're reading the transcript, you'll be like, sentence, sentence, you know, word, word, word, you know, word, word, word, you know, word, you know, period, new sentence. I'm like, wow. And it's like, it's a massive tick, but sometimes he says it so quickly that you just kind of have to, to snag it along the way, but it became distracting from you. I was like, ah, I need to pay attention to what he's saying. Why did you get the transcription? I didn't see the transcription. So I got a sewing. If you turn on CC closed captioning and zoom. Oh yeah. And Ken, Ken said that it's better if you speed up a recording, he's doing 1.75. I can't, I tried that. I was like, gibberish, can't do it, can't do it, can't do it. I had to back off. So I did 1.25, which works really great because it's just the perception of time for a one hour session. Just it felt like it went by much faster. And then you, if you turn on closed captioning, that kind of fills in what you're, what you might be missing with your ears. So that's all. And I should, let me, let's turn on the live transcript now. Thank you. And also zoom offers for free a live transcript. Yeah. Which is a new feature, which is lovely because. Since August. Excellent. So, so then separately. Just going to go consult my notes about. So this is what I, let me just share screen for sec. This is how I took notes during watching the video. So here's Barcelona super blocks, nine block pedestrian zones, which I have under a really important thought in my brain called revitalizing cities. And this is all kinds of stories and subcategories like co-living cities that love bicycles, community led development. These are all sort of subcategories, but these are all stories of how cities have renewed and refreshed themselves, which I, I wish that there was like a rolling screen of people telling their stories. Like this would be great as a, just as a source of inspiration for other towns that are trying to do stuff. So that was just one little thing I connected to, but then what story replaces home economics. And the problem is that right now we're, we're basically stuck in this home economics narrative of rational choice theory, efficient markets hypothesis, neoclassical economics, you know, maximizing shareholder value or shareholder primacy, a bunch of things like that. And in the OGM call a moment ago, Grace typed into the chat, isn't it crazy how nobody, no macro economists look out the window and go, gosh, this, none of this stuff actually works in the real world the way the theories go. And I was like, yep. And so, so what is the new story, right? And then this idea of changing the story. And there was a lot in this episode about stories, scripts, stories, narratives. And, you know, here's the old story, here's the old narrative, and they went through it in some detail. But how do we change our narratives? And this is a big, big issue for me as well. So, so I found in this, in this hour, that there was a lot of resonance for me around lots of those topics. I'm like, yep, yep, yep, need to find a new story. I didn't link to, but I will. I'll link to George Monbeo, did a really nice, oh good, here's Ken. Let me just go to- Did you link to that Jerry? Yes. I will do that right now. Let me first go to George Monbeo. And he did this talk, which I'll link to today's call, which I think is this one. Yes. So he did this TEDx talk. I was actually a TED talk, I think, in 2019, which I put excellent, I think it's really good. I just write XLNT after it in the thoughts. I can kind of find them. And he says, look, there used to be the Keynesian story, and he's talking about a particular window in time. But he says, we used to have Keynes's story that John Maynard Keynes created, which is disorder reflects the land. It's caused by powerful and nefarious forces of the economic elite, which have captured the world's wealth. The hero of the story, the enabling state, supported by working class and middle class people, will contest that disorder. And he says, I like those powerful forces by redistributing wealth and through spending public money on public goods, will generate income and jobs, restoring harmony to the land. And he says, that was pushed aside by the neoliberal story, which the Democrats bought into. And that story, and forgive me for taking this time, but this is like fascinating to me, and it might be helpful in that conversation. The neoliberal story is, and all the stories begin with disorder reflects the land. And after a while, when he says that everybody in the audience last, because he dramatizes it, when the stories begin, disorder affects the land caused by the powerful and nefarious forces of the over mighty state, whose collectivizing tendencies crush freedom and individualism and opportunity. The hero of our story, the entrepreneur will fight those powerful forces, roll back the state and through creating wealth and opportunity, restore harmony to the land. And this is what caused deregulation, globalization, a whole bunch of the stuff in Muck and Meyer that's got us kind of where we are today, and that's probably a bunch of other good stuff as well. And then he says we're missing a new story and he proposes the restoration story. This is his answer. This is his elixir for maybe a story for getting us out of this trouble, because he says the progressive parties around the world lack a good story. They don't have a replacement story for the neoliberal story. So he says disorder reflects the land caused by the powerful and nefarious forces of people who say there is no such thing as society, who tell us that our highest purpose in life is to fight like stray dogs over a dustbin. The heroes of the story, us, we will revolt against this disorder. We'll fight those nefarious forces by building rich, engaging in inclusive and generous communities. And in doing so, we will restore harmony to the land. And so I'm attaching that to this thought. I'm going to capture the link to this thought and then paste that in our chat right now so that we can find it. And with that, I'm going to turn the con back to Mr. Homer, who has invited us here in the first place. You're muted, Ken. You're locating you. Sorry, I have double mute in the headset. Hello. Thank you for joining us for round two. Neil, that's good to see you. I need a very quick bye breaker. It's been on a 45 minute call and I jumped right on this. Head off for a second. Let's start with what, what's your takeaway from what, I don't know if you guys talked about this, what's your takeaway from session two? That's where we were. Okay. So I personally think that this is sort of a critique. I don't feel like they really went into what the real challenges are. They sort of glossed over, they mentioned a few and glossed over it. And then they jumped into solutions and. Energy, man, they missed the boat on energy. There's so much about energy that they're like, oh, we're solar and wind power. It's not going to do it. Solar and power aren't going to power heavy industry. There's a huge transition that has to occur. And I really think they missed the boat on that. So I did appreciate the part on food and consumerism. But I think they really have a, a ways to go in energy. Yes, draw down is, is, is. Is that helpful, but how are you going to replace all these coal burning power plants around the world and, you know, generate enough. It's, it's there, there needs to be a transition plan. And I have come around to embrace Stuart Brands view that we're going to need some nuclear power to bridge that. And, you know, I'm, I've been Andy Nukes since I was a kid, but in reading the Wizard of the Prophet and other things like, I don't see any way around it. Because what it will take to generate enough power using solar and wind is going to require an incredible investment in infrastructure that's, that's going to take up massive amounts of space. And there's just, there's a lot to it that I don't think is being addressed in, in this particular story. So that's my personal point on that. Why don't you go heat nature's call before bad things happen in your. Yeah. I'd be right back. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. I just, I just need to throw out and it's, it's really interesting. The, the theory is there. The, the modeling. Some of it is there. It's going to be interesting to see what. Set golden comes up with. And I keep echoing in my mind this phrase that Al Gore. You is that I, I, it's funny. I keep going back. To him, which surprises me in some ways. He would, he would. Talk about two phenomenon one. You know, denial is not just a river in Egypt. Which is just, you know, massive in terms of general population. And, and, and number two. It will take political will. And the political will is not there. And we, we just, you know, that's very current in the U S. Trying to, trying to. Have an infrastructure package that includes all kinds of green stuff and human stuff. And no, it's, it's just, it's just not there. So how do we, how do we make the transition from where we are. And politically. To, to, to. To, to, to, to. To potentially realize these possibilities for the future. I mean, everybody is just stuck in the present moment. It's almost like you want to say to the folks in the U S Congress, you know, don't you have grandchildren? Don't you have children? You know, what are you thinking? You know, what are you, what are you thinking? Yeah. They hold up their while. They hold up their while. They hold up their wives and daughters as examples of why they're not misogynists. So that's good. That they have them exactly. I mean, just, you know, and you, you look at the photograph of what that Congress looks like. And it's a bunch of, you know, old white men. I mean, it's just rich old white men. Rich old white men. Yeah. Thank you. Who, who, who, I don't know what, what universe they're living in. But yeah. So anyway, that just, just throw, just throw that into the mix. I have to, I have to respond. Yale 360 climate, which is a really great publication out of Yale. They had a graphic, which I can't pull up immediately. I did send it at one point to the OGM. List showing how many people are really alarmed about climate change, how many are concerned, how many are unsure, and how many are in denial. And the J between alarmed and concerned. There's over 50%. So, you know, the adjacent possible that the number in denial is very small. So if we can manage to thread together the first three groups, the first three groups, we will have something like 78% of the population working on, you know, really aware of climate change. So I think that's a really important. Framing to not think it's, it's, and it goes to get, you know, political thing, political will is, is controlled by very few people. I think. Yeah. Yeah. You raise for me can just to, just to throw this, you know, little bombshell in that, you know, the United States Supreme Court, we all know has, you know, graciously declared, declared, you know, campaign bribing legal. Speech. Right. And so, right. So the, and we know who funds so many of the folks that are in opposition to what we're talking about. So 28th amendment is kind of an important piece. Jeff Clements, that, that whole, that, that whole movement. So, but that's a, that's a, you know, a factor in the mix. Even though the public is saying one thing. There's the, there's the reality of the climate change. Even though the public is saying one thing. There's the, there's the reality of, you know, elected representatives being bought. Yeah. I'll shut up for a while. I'm going to say this is just building upon what's already been said, the, if we zoom out and look at the impact of the two episodes so far, at least this is my perspective that they did do a good job of creating hope in the second. But maybe only for a select portion. Not everyone believes in the science, the optimistic science that was, was presented there at the beginning of the episode. I love how they went into look at how humanity has tackled big challenges in the past. And if they can do that storytelling well. When, when they produce, fully produce this, I feel like that is a, that's a gift to bring this into the dialogue. Not just show solutions, but to show. And to show what the expectations have occurred before and they can again. I would add to that Todd. The thing that I've noticed is we talk about political well. And from the work that I did with 24 activists and 350. The org. Two, three years ago on reframing narratives, the stories. And I think that's what I'm talking about. Most people, you know, out of the people that we interviewed on the ground. Not non activists, just. Public people. And then there was our partner and it did with 10,000 people. Fundamentally, every single, you know, most, most would just go, oh, yeah, well, it's a government. That's going to deal with this is. And every single in terms of history is always the grassroots. And the society is always the communities, not the ones in the middle. So what is this aid? What is the story that needs to be the new narrative that would inspire people? That was one of the things that came back and it was solidarity. It's active hope like Jordan, as he talks about. And second, second is to walk away from this feeling that the government is And the third is what are the edge communities that are already existing that are doing this? And I say edge communities, people who's not in the mainstream who's actually opposing the mainstream and going, well, we're going to experiment and pioneer new technologies because they're resourceful, they don't have money, you know, and it's like in developing countries, they leap frog technologies. So because they're so resourceful and humans have this capacity of creativity when they're pushed to the limit. And but at the same time, it goes into this stratospheric creativity of the whole community. So who are these edge communities? That's part of the work that I'm looking at. And I was looking at in California, there's somebody called Salmon Nation. And that's exactly what they're doing. Edge communities coming together and experimenting, not waiting for governments to, they actually gave up on governments. So that's one thing. Those are the three things I would like to see. One thing I want to throw in, I wrote in the chat that QAnon is a story too. And I was talking to Jordan Sukut who's interested in running for president. I'm like, okay, cool. And then I said, an earnest story isn't very viral. It's heartwarming. It's great. But it doesn't really transmit or infect that much. And we're all looking and we're hearing and reading earnest stories all over the place. Sometimes the things that catch on are just like come out of left field. They're absurd. They're really weird. And QAnon is just a really weird story. There's a pedophile ring being run by Democrats who drink the blood of children and who meet in the basement of cosmic pizza, et cetera, et cetera. And then it gets crazy. Right? And it's like, holy crap, holy crap. But I can see. So one of my beliefs from one of my first loves introduced me to Alice Miller's work. And one of the things that Alice, the psychotherapist Alice Miller says is that child abuse is far more prevalent than we think it is. And we just shove it under the blanket. We don't talk about it. And then later I ran into John Taylor Gatto and a bunch of critics of the compulsory education system, which is a different form of abuse and trauma inflicted on children. And so there's systemic forms of trauma. And there's intergenerational trauma and all these kinds of things. So I'm like, I'm very open to the notion that children are being hurt a lot more than we think they are. And I think a lot of mothers probably are open to that too. So the QAnon narrative has a hook right there. It has this hook dangling because the system is ignoring the fact that kids are being abused in all these different ways. And so give me a crazy ass plot that hooks into that hook and maybe I'll bite on the hook and we're off and running. And I could be a very sincere person who's just worried about kids. And I found a posse of people who were just worried about kids. Now, there's this insane plot around it. So a piece of what I'm trying to think of it is not and forgive me if this is a digression or distraction because I think that an honest, sincere, earnest narrative is really important to have. But I have a funny feeling that the thing that's going to catch on is not going to be, it's going to be more like an alternate reality game or cosplay or an alien figure who steps into the room and says, I'm an alien figure, follow me and whatever. And so I'm busy sort of looking broadly, broadly, broadly to figure out what might those be and are there some of those that already exist that are productive? And how do you disrupt and undermine QAnon if it's an alternate reality game? How do you take over an alternate reality game and bend it back toward reality and doing good for the world, right? And that to me is at least as interesting as what is the sincere story that we need to walk into. Mila Stacey Stewart. Thank you, Jerry. So I'd like to just ask clarifying question, what does earnest story mean to you? Ernest story to me means logical heartfelt story about how to recover the world and how we all come together into community and how we take care of the commons. And I'm trying to paint these sorts of things, but all I'm saying is it makes sense, it comes from the heart, it's really authentic, not that viral. So the results of quite a few focus groups on from the activism movement, that when we say solidarity, that could also come from like QAnon, QAnon and far right, right? So whatever the story is, how does it make solidarity? But it doesn't need to be like a Disney kind of story. Let's say the world, it isn't. For the far right and the QAnon, they said that basically some of the research are showing that it's based on the profiling. So it's also coming back to a little bit of marketing. So the story needs to really hit the audience that it's targeted for, because that story may not target the rest, you know, it's viral and QAnon, but not necessarily the rest of the world. So there's solidarity, but solidarity towards potential that really, really, really drives people together. And this is potential, what else is possible that no one's really talking about? And this comes back to Todd saying, you know, we have that capability. And it's basically the incentive is tapping into the adjacent possibility to the creativity. But the only way we can get to that creativity is we feel that we can show up as ourselves. That's why QAnon, ISIS and all that works, because they really go for people who are having some, you know, it could be religious, it could be political, but really has some kind of loneliness, what they found are people who are really lonely and lost. So the story that they put in is really directly targeted to that profile, like Trump, basically. So we have to be careful that it's not because of the earnest stories, the profile of the people. And it does go viral, but it needs to be of something about potentiality, something that is not about saving the planet. What else is possible that we're not talking about? And then that drives creativity like children in a sandbox. That's what all the research are showing on narrative. Go ahead, Stacey. Stacey, you're muted, Stacey. Sorry. So acknowledging everything that's been said, that I think the most powerful part of this project is that it creates a way to align and have a starting place. That's why I push back a little bit on Ken's criticism, because I actually think, as I said before, you got on the call, Ken, that focusing on food was the perfect place to focus on. Because as I explained, when I've spoken to people who I totally disagree with politically, the one thing we all do is love our animals. Food has so many of those different, you know, you could be interested because you're a vegan, or you could be interested for all these other reasons. So I like that they focused just on that. But the other thing I want to say is, as far as listening to the recordings at the speeded up version, we're a unique group, because we already kind of know each other, and we're cheating a little bit. We're not watching it together. If we didn't know each other, though, what this project really does is help to build a diverse community. So like Jerry, you mentioned yesterday, you were touched hearing that emotion come out. When you speed up the recordings, you don't get to sit in that emotion. If you were together watching something like this, and let's say you haven't really been exposed to these climate matters, you're feeling what other people around you are feeling. That emotion, you're now like becoming a group with, you know, a whole, you know, world of emotion around you, and you're caring about each other. So I just wanted to point that out. Superficial thought, but this is sort of why movie theaters might still exist in a couple of years is that you can watch the damn thing at home and hit pause. And you can go get snacks and go to the bathroom when you feel like it. And yet, sitting among other people and crying at the same time and laughing at the same time matters to us still. Sorry, Stuart. Go ahead. Yeah, I just want to punctuate this. And before you said it, Jerry, before you use the verb, before you use the word viral, it was floating around in my brain as such an important concept for moving this out, the story. And then listening to the way the discussion is going, it sounds to me like you got to hit more than one vector in terms of marketing, because there are multiple things that will grab different audiences. So in some ways, you know, creating a vision, creating a mission, creating a storyline. This is a job for marketing people in some ways to get this new story out there. And it's interesting. It's been since the 1980s when, you know, Brian Swimmy wrote his book about saying we need a new story. Well, now we really, we really, we really, really need a new story. So yeah, that's who it's important to get into the mix. And if people, if people are enough, people are buying QAnon, that it becomes a phenomenon in the news, Jerry, you pointed out and then it gets really crazy. Imagine if we might present something that those masses of people that Ken referenced earlier, who are already in the bucket of believing that we need to do something. Yeah, getting this viral. And so the real question in some ways, are these folks that have created these films, are they the best to do it? Or is this just a wonderful place to start? Of course, it's a wonderful place to start. This is a beta version or an alpha version or whatever we want to call it. Yeah, so building on this idea of stories, I appreciate what everyone's been sharing about the importance of stories and where they come from, the difference between earnest stories and crazy stories, shocking stories, stories that bring out fear versus stories that illicit hope. I think for me, I'm trying to remember some of the research that I've read in the past and the past. So I just want to add this one piece, the power of hearing a story from a person who's similar to you, who you can identify with, not just a vision of hears that's provided by the government or some overarching organization or whatever that goes, that we say to ourselves in our head, oh, that's them, right? Not trying to create another them example here. I'm just saying we tell ourselves that's not something I need to be doing, right? When we hear from someone who's like us, it makes us go, oh, if they did it, I can do it. And that applies to a lot of different scenarios, whether it's about getting through college, I think it was one of the research studies, they were written a letter by somebody just graduating who is in a similar situation or whatever. When they get that letter, the control group got a letter that was just about congratulations, have a great four years. The other one was, here's my story of how I got through college, the increase in success rate at college and measured by a million different things was much higher from the people who got a story from someone that was similar to them that told them what they went through in order to get through college. So I'm just saying, I think, you know, if we look at it that way and kind of thinking about what Milo was saying about the grassroots, how I think we're all kind of saying that this needs to come up from the grassroots up. Maybe this isn't about one story, or maybe it starts with one story, but what it really is, is it's about a bunch, and I'm talking a bunch of little success stories from every community shared. That is so much more powerful and so much more hopeful and so much more inspiring from a behavioral standpoint, like trying to get people to do something. I think knowing that someone down the road, which we don't know right now, is actually working on this problem and doing some beautiful things. And I could just spend the Saturday helping them out is is a much easier step for me to make than to buy into the idea that wind and solar need to take over everything, right? Like maybe that's not where I'm at, but I don't need to be there. I don't need to believe that that wind and solar can solve everything. No one needs to convince me that I just need to help my friend down the road, right? Do the little piece that she's doing either maybe it's regenerative agriculture, maybe it's planting five trees, whatever, right? So I think harnessing that by using micro stories, I don't know what we call this, using using more personalized stories, I don't know, something like that. And then we're not worrying about viral, we're not working about marketing, and we're not worrying about right, it'll take care of that part will take care of itself. I want to tell you a story. I want to tell you a story that took place about 27, 28 years ago in Fairfax, California, where I went on a multicultural men's retreat with 110 men, and there were 40 African-Americans and 40 Latinos and 30 white men and one Asian man and one man in a wheelchair. And there was this was led by Jack Cornfield and Michael Mead and Maldo Musame, and Ralph Steele and a few other people, some Indigenous medicine from Central America and South America. And there was an enormous amount of conflict and anger in that room when I walked in to the point where I was actually terrified, literally terrified. I was afraid I might die. And the first thing out of Michael Mead's mouth is we have two rules as we go forward. The first rule is conflict hour. When conflict arises, we deal with it when it arises. We don't put it off. We say it's conflict here, we'll deal with it now. Can we all get agreement on that? Yes, we all agree. We'll handle conflict when it arises. The second rule is we do not resort to violence when dealing with rule number one. Can we get agreement on that? No. And there were at least three guns on the property. So I felt like if I said the wrong thing, I could get shot for saying the wrong thing. So I was shaking, quaking, like terrified. And eventually, after three days, people with the guns left, and there was a story that was told by a man, by a white man in the plenary session, where he said, you know, my 15-year-old son was shot and killed outside of a high school dance. And when the two boys who were responsible were convicted of murder and sentenced to life imprisonment, a reporter shoved a mic in my face and said, do you feel vindicated? And with his voice quaking with anger, he said, how the fuck could I feel vindicated? Not only had I lost my son, but not two other families had lost their sons. And that broke something open in the crowd. It broke us open to the reality of how tenuous and fragile life is and how it can be taken out like that. And along the way, I'm going to condense this week into what made the difference in bringing 110 men together who saw each other as other, as enemies, as people to be afraid of. And by the end of the week, we were all hugging and laughing and crying together, were drumming, indigenous practice, rituals, initiation, myths, Michael Mead telling these amazing stories, and hearing each other talk about being vulnerable. I walked out one afternoon from washing the dishes and found six boys on the stage, all of them teenagers, all of them people of color. And one said, I'm 17 years old, and I live in South Central LA. I'm at my life expectancy. Every day that I live, I am amazed because 17 is when you die in my neighborhood. And again, it just ripped people open to a level of this is shit is real. This is no more denying. This is somebody right in front of me. And these are the kinds of stories that I think are beyond earnest and beyond viral. They are the kinds of stories that actually change people's lives. And to create spaces like this is extremely difficult. And I've talked to Michael about this. And he says, I only do one a year because it just kills me to do these things. I just, you know, I weep for weeks afterwards, hearing all this pain. And that's what's going to take, I think, modern contemporary, I want to say contemporary people because modernity is it's 100 years old now, but contemporary people have lost their connection to each other and to the earth. And until we recover a story that has us be connected to the earth and to each other, we're going to continue to stumble along and fuck things up. So that's my story. That really confirms can some of the studies that basically this is also live my own lived experience. You can always objectify anyone. And that from genocide, the studies of genocide is the same. But the moment people share their own lived experiences. And this was some experiment was done between Israeli and Pakistan, the Israeli and Palestine, Palestine, and they set together and, you know, opposing views. But the moment you've got to know someone as a human being with their own lived experience, the vulnerability that you talk about, and even stories of joy, also, just the humanness, it's difficult to then see that person as an enemy or an object. So it gets it connects people. So when I did this, I was involved in this experimentation on random democracy in Holland with 10 cities, 1000 people random from homeless to housewife, to businessman, mayor, the media. We asked the question, what's important to you in all 10 cities? The key that the answer was connection. And connection can be translated differently. Like one would be green policy, the other would be a coffee shop or a, you know, creating a garden. But fundamentally, that was what connected that the bus that came in from each of those, you know, kind of event, a well cafe event was connection. But then how do you keep the connection going? Then the conflict happens, you know, and self interest happens. That's the problem. Yeah. So I just want to kind of drill down into that a little bit. There's a researcher at the University of Florida professor who did extensive empirical research. This is going to sound strange, but the metaphor is here. What makes lawyers happy? Okay. What makes lawyers happy? What quality do they have that makes this particular demographic of lawyers happy? And the research revealed lawyers who go about their work as relational. They see relationality as the critical piece of their work. Whether it's with clients or adversaries or colleagues or court personnel, they just, that's the lens that they see the world through. So, you know, this notion of connectivity is just it's, you know, if it's true for lawyers, it's true for everybody, I say. So the thing that I was going to mention before in this marketing campaign that we, you know, that we see potentially as getting viral in some way, and I don't know exactly how things get viral, but I'm sure that there are those who have some idea and can point in the right directions. One of the things that I could never really completely understand is the whole movement towards greening of things makes sense at so many different levels. It just, it just makes sense. And the other thought is, you know, picking up on what you said, Ken, because you know, the dramatic story, there are people who have been dramatically impacted by changes in climate already. There are enough of those stories to reach out, I think, and grab a greater number of people who would go, yeah, and who is it that's resistant? You know, think about that. What population is resistant? And how do you deal with that group of people? Mostly it's self-interested industrialists, I think, who are just committed to a status quo of an income stream of some kind. Yeah. Thanks, Stuart. Should we just pause for a second? I'd like to go back to connection. I feel connected to all of you. We'll start there. Glad the world has you, and I'm glad you're on this call. Connection, the phrase connection can mean different things to different people. I think is really important. And an acknowledgement of the baggage of the language of connection that's been used to harm people. And we can talk about consumerism, we could talk about race, we could talk about gender. And I feel very strongly that in order to ignite these multiple movements that need to, in some way, coordinate as a larger movement, to be diverse but unified at the same time, people need experiences of connection. And not people talking about connection, not people saying, we need to be connected or come here and get connected. Don't tell them they're going to get connected, just create the spaces where they can connect. And that's, I'm going to set that that that was my first little, Stuart, when you're talking about marketing, I always squirm when anyone says the word marketing, but I want to marketing also. I also want to acknowledge the truth in the culture that we live in that mass media plays such a large role. And that for some reason, when we started down this road, being a young person in 1985 and seeing we are the world being sung on TV and seeing shared care with very different looking people from very different music genres, it was captivating to me. And there's a there there that was beyond the earthquake or the hunger in Africa, the there there of bringing people together that if we could use the storytelling, well, I'll just replace marketing the storytelling for a second. This assemblage of storytelling, not one story, but an assemblage of storytelling. The nonprofit I work with fear stability project we we call it finding ally finding alliances and surprising places. And so we have tried to bring together the Heritage Foundation, to unite on something with the Brookings Institution and just, you know, try finding ways for people to find common ground. And from a mass media perspective, not coming at this as as a left issue, I would have outreach to people on the right before we even started, because there are a lot of people on the right who care about planet. And so I would now I'm thinking about we are the world again, it would be fun to see a bunch of YouTube videos, tick tock, TV commercials, all of that with a diverse set of voices for many different points of view, promoting this. And I don't like to save the planet because we're that's not that message is not going to work promoting this life more abundant. Yeah, save our asses is even better than save the planet Ken. We're personal. Let's get into the game as they say. What would what would the song save our asses sound like? Interesting, especially if Lionel Orchard were singing. So we, we are the world has a we are the world has a particular stamp for me as well, because I just finished grad school and went to Argentina for a project. And there's a couple of pedestrians shopping streets downtown called Florida and La Valle in the middle of Buenos Aires. And there are a bunch of record stores, remember records, there are a bunch of record stores on one of those two, the other one sort of more movie theaters. And I remember walking down the record street and here at like, after a while, I would walk into a record store and start tapping the seconds until they started playing we are the world. Because it was just everywhere. It was wallpaper in the city. And that was Buenos Aires, Argentina. So you can only imagine what was happening around the world. So that's a that word viral, you know, one thing celebrities and and hits do is they propagate. And there's a bunch of people who've used that to good advantage. There's an albino Senegalese singer, Ghanaian singer, West African singer, who has used a celebrity to talk about bias and some diseases basically, you know, building into his into his music and so forth. So lots of interesting ways to do this. I was just earlier today that the thought came up and then I kind of set it aside because because Ken, you said something that that I needed to pay attention to. But I have this this amateur theory that there's like storytelling and then hand holding, like, like over and over again, are part of the formula here. The storytelling is we just need to hear lots of examples of what's happening, what's happening, you know, whatever, and they need to be memorable stories. So like, like, Jay Golden, who's in our group says the retellable story is really important. You need to catch enough of it, you tell the next person about this story. So the story of stuff, the video that Andy Leonard did is a video story that tries to do some of that kind of thing, but hearing lots of stories about what's working. And then at the other side, somebody taking you by the hand to try something. And to me, that's one of the life changing mechanisms of the world, that somebody kind of like you who says, Hey, come, I've been doing this thing, come with me and let's go do it. And you'll do that. You'll do that in a second. And suddenly you'll become a big fan of that. My example of that was Quaker meeting when I lived in Connecticut. And a buddy of mine said, hey, you look kind of blue. I just broken up with a girlfriend. He says, come with me, the family, and I've been attending this Quaker meeting in Wilton. And I had never heard of the Quakers had no idea. I'm not very religious. I showed up and I started frequenting that until I moved to Manhattan. That was my gig. I was like, totally all in on friends meeting in Wilton, Wilton monthly meeting, and learned a ton about humanity from Quakers and Quaker process in the, you know, in the bargain. And so for me, lots of stories and then lots of hand holding at fractal human scale creates those situations where people can experience connection, change behavior, join new tribes, all those kinds of things. Those happen at this funny little interface between those kinds of actions, I think. So I'm really interested in the stories. And then I said at the very beginning of the call, some of the stories need to be crazy ass. Some of the stories need to be like, not what you expect and not just the earnest story of whatever, but something just out of left field. And I don't know exactly how that plays in. Somebody mentioned it. Oh, we weren't when you were talking about we are the world. There's a lot of people out there now that really in some ways worship public figures, sports figures, entertainment figures, and there are a lot of folks operating in that, in that world who are already activists. I don't know people of, you know, younger generations, but certainly there's a, there's a bunch of baby boomer entertainers that still have mass levels of popularity. But I've always thought whenever I've thought about mass movements of some kind, that that that universe needs to be tapped into. And thanks, Todd. Marketing is just a matter of getting the message out and communicating. All right. So we have a lot of ways to do that today. I was a CMO once. So I guess I'm a recovering marketer. Okay. So Stuart, you mentioned Brian's from a while ago. And Brian and Thomas Berry were very close. And Thomas Bracebook, The Dream of the Earth was a foundational text for sustainable strategies in our attempt to create a year long community based sustainability process. And, you know, Michael Mead also talks about the world being uncovered in two ways. We're uncovered from the standpoint of the hole in the ozone. We actually are, you know, that's lying radiation and then we're uncovered mythically. We don't have a unifying myth. And in doing some research on myth, I was really surprised to learn that it's only in the 18th century that the word myth took on a different meaning. Myth used to be stories that were true. They were stories that explained how things operated. And then the Europeans in the 18th and 19th century changed that into myths as being fanciful things. You could say that the Big Bang is a creation myth. It is the best we can assimilate from current levels of scientific knowledge. But given how much we don't know, it is still a myth. It is a, this is our best guess as what happened, right? And it's not a particularly enthralling myth, you know, it's really hard. It's a very, it's a 13.8 billion year long story. So it's really hard to tell in a short, around a campfire one night, you know, and how do you create creation myths where I still remember in third grade reading this creation myth from Native Americans and said, you know, the creator was lonely and decided to make a man. And so he baked the man in his oven and but he went out hunting and when he came back, the man was overdone and he was black. So he threw him into Africa. And then he made another man. And he was really careful and didn't go out hunting this time. He took him out of the oven too soon and he was white. So he threw him into Europe. And then he made a third man. And this one was done just right. It was the red man and he put him in the Americas, right? And I just, I love that story because it tells you, you're a place in the universe, right? And we need stories that tell us our place in the universe in language that anyone can understand. And, you know, I think this is one of the things that's missing from our lives is how many of you have a sense of belonging? I've run sessions on, you know, what, what does it mean to be indigenous? We talk about indigenous people, what are they? They're people who are really close to the earth. How come contemporary people are so far from the earth? We have situations and systems that where people are making decisions 100 stories above the ground. There's no groundedness there. And there are 1000 or 10,000 miles away from the actual impact of their decisions. How is that sustainable? How is that? They don't have any sense of belonging. They need to be on the ground. We, you know, the best thing you can do is take up a practice of walking barefoot on the earth or laying down on the earth every day, you know, for 20 minutes and just listening to what the earth has to say. It's really, really important that we reconnect and that we would need those stories that keep us connected to each other and to the planet. So a while back, not that long ago, although everything seems to coalesce in some ways in my brain these days. I was thinking about, you know, great religions in the world as mythological stories. And, you know, it's kind of like somebody woke up one day and said, well, I was talking to God. And it goes on from there. And we all know what religions have done. And it's really interesting because I just started doing this Buddhist retreat with Pema children. And she's talking about the bardo as if she knows, as if somebody come back and you could document physically what happened in the bardo, what their experience was, as if it wasn't something they made up. But this is something that's anyway. But here we are on this call making up stories. In some sense, we're poking at a story to be made up about the current situation. And many years ago, I don't know how it came into my hands, but this book called The Keepers of Earth, The Keepers of Earth, so Hawaiian poet, epic poet, epic poet and illustrator. And the piece of mythology was after looking for who's going to save them, who's going to save them, who's going to save them, they would let on this wild goose chase back to themselves. And so in some way, let's not diminish the value of this conversation, it not just being another conversation, but perhaps we're on to something bigger in some ways that we all know there's a huge challenge out there. Maybe it's us who can help put some of the pieces together to tackle it in some way. Just a thought. You know, there's two, three videos that come to mind. Two of them are from TV2 in Denmark. If you've ever seen all that we share, it's an amazing, I can't watch it without weeping. I mean, it's just every time I'm missing tears, they did a follow up on that. And there's the Heineken commercial where, you know, they interview people and it's like, I'm a trans person and there's this guy going, I could never talk to a trans person, blah, blah, blah, you know. And then they don't know each other and they end up having to, you know, build this thing together. It turns out to be a bar and they sit down and they have a beer together and then it's revealed, by the way, I'm trans, no way, really, you're so cool. And there's that, that Todd said it earlier, don't tell people you're going to connect them, create the conditions for them to connect. Right. This is what I attempt to do in all of my work. I just got the feedback today, this morning from the work I did in New York City last week. And I got straight fives across the board and people said, you know, can create the conditions for us to get to know each other in an authentic way that I've never seen in that business setting before. I didn't go in there and tell people how to be, they just, you know, they're like, create the conditions to come together and they're like, this was amazing. And we can do this when someone threw up, I think, Jerry or Stuart yesterday, Gus Spieth from, you know, Yale saying scientists don't know how to handle these problems. Facilitators do, I do, I mean, not every one of them, but I'll make an attempt. There's a lot of huge body of knowledge out there. Peter Block talks about this in his book, Community, how there's an enormous wealth of information of how to bring people together to handle really challenging things. And it's closely held by a small number of skill facilitators. We need to make this as open source as possible. We need to get people trained on this. And, you know, it's not rocket science, but it is stuff that rocket scientists need to practice every day. Punctuate, we know what to do. We have some idea of what to do. It's a question of, you know, back to Al Gore, having the political, social will to actually take the action. I want to go beyond Al Gore in this. Right after Ferguson, I did some work with my friend, Dan Woods, who's, she says, I'm black, I'm lesbian, and I'm left-handed. So the world's been against me from day one, right? And she's a lovely woman who's taught me so much about racism and inclusion and pointed out to me in the most gentle, caring way my own unconscious racism. I mean, she's an incredible teacher. And I interviewed her because she's so optimistic. And I said, you know, why are you optimistic? And she said, you know, and I said, what do you do when you feel things are hopeless? You know, here we're watching these videos of police shooting black men in the back as they're running away. How does that make you feel? What do you do? She says, I steer through the rear view mirror. I said, great, what does that mean? What do you mean you steer through the rear view mirror? She said, her name is Diane Woods, Jerry. She said, I think about the fact that 200 years ago, my ancestors were here on this continent as slaves, and they had no rights and they had no ability to do anything. Anything could be taken from them at any point. They could have their babies snatched in their breasts, their husbands could be murdered in front of them, wives could be raped in front of their husbands, and there was no recourse, nothing they could do. And they didn't give up. And they kept on persevering. And eventually a war has fought, they got some rights. And we went through, you know, reconstruction and minstrelsy and Jim Crow and blah, blah, blah and redlining. And now we've got some more rights and now we're seeing it again. And she says, if my ancestors refused to give up when it was that dark and that weak and that hopeless, me in this day and age, with all of the rights and privileges I have, have no right to give up. And I think this is really a key teaching that just touched me really deeply of when I feel, man, it's really can bleak out there. I'm in a place that so many of my ancestors would would be amazed to be sitting in to have the privilege that I have to have the ability to influence people that I can reach to be in the sitting in this circle with with all of you. We have enormous resources that are disposed of that that other people and other times would give anything for. And we're like, oh, what are we going to do? We're helpless. So I'm not saying those of us here, but this is a prevalent attitude. It takes political or it takes us out. We need to be looking at what can we do, where we are with what we have in the networks that we're, we're part of, to keep pushing this out all the time and not let the Oh, God, you know, look with the latest fricking idiot in the Senate just did, you know, we can't get distracted by that, we have to stay focused on, on moving forward and making the world more human. And also, one of the reasons why I care so much about a persistent memory or a shared memory or whatever the heck we call it is the more we can show other people how this is done and leave a simple instructions behind the more this propagates, the easier it travels across communities. And there's so many of these things that that take a little bit of insight or a little bit of, you know, I had a household in West Philly where one of us had lived in a really interesting household in New York, Canada. And he said, we, we, we didn't divide the fridge by, by this shelf is mine, this shelf is yours. We actually assigned roles in the household and one person was in charge of buying fresh fruits and vegetables and meats and stuff like that. And another person who wasn't good at picking fresh fruits was it was in charge of keeping the drawer full of money and telling us all how much we'd spent in the last month. And another person was in charge of dry goods and made sure that there was TP and paper towels. And that was a completely different assignment. And if there was something in the fridge, you made sure you wanted to eat, you just put your name on that one thing. Right. But he had, he had several different systems like that, which we just adopted wholesale. And the household was completely fun, completely fun. So that's how my wife actually Yeah. But that's how these things travel. It's like, you know, and now we have a zero cause, zero marginal cost medium to tell the stories it, which is why I think it's so cool. And so some of the stories that are being propagated in order to get more viewership and addict people are really dysfunctional and terrible. And some of these stories can help us cure the world. Stacey, how's your head? Yeah, Stacey, are you okay? It hurts or I'd be there. There's so much I want to add. You are here, we feel you here. Okay, thank you. Do you have an excedrin somewhere? Oh, I'm on my second round of aspirin for today. Sorry. Wendy, what's going on for you? Yeah, I guess yesterday and today, both I have a feeling like, can we just move to action, please? You know, all this stuff is, you know, the storyline is important, the marketing is important, that the thing for me is it's all important, right? It really, I mean, this projects, you know, this problem, these problems are big enough and they infiltrate all areas of society and all sectors of society and the truth is we need all of it. And that to me isn't daunting. That to me is very ripe for plentiful action. And I think people, the story we need is every single person can do something, right? And I don't mean that that's exactly the words we need to use. I mean, sending the general message that everyone can do something. You don't, again, you don't have to understand the full picture. You don't have to become a scientist to understand the full picture. You don't have to stop everything you're doing and study this for a month. You don't have to, right? You just need to do something. And I think there's plenty of things already happening and there's plenty of opportunity for people to get involved. We're just really bad at communicating so far what those things are. And so for those of us who are already involved in trying to do things, I have a sense that for a lot of us, it's we keep going like this is obvious people. There are answers right here. Please come and help. And for the people who are just going on with their daily life, I think back to the stats from before about how many people are alarmed or are at least concerned. I think there would be a lot of more people who would jump in, even with a poorly told story, even with a not perfect, nothing viral, nothing. I think there's a lot of low hanging fruit. And I think our struggle has been more about how do we get the word out there? And I'm saying I think we're there. It's time to say this is what we can do. Which I think is the next step in this process. I think there's something really important about acting without the actions being driven by urgency, because urgency can make you not think things through. Like okay, we need to act, but let's act thoughtfully. Let's reflect on what constitutes appropriate action given the context. And there's this tremendous push of we all get the urgency of just how bad things are and how quickly they're getting worse. And kind of do something. And it's like, yes, and there's an old story of, does everybody know how a Taoist master changes the course of the mighty river? One stone at a time? Close. Walks upstream far enough and moves a single pebble. So as we're looking at this mighty stream of rush of life, going by how far upstream can we walk to move the right pebble that changes the course by the time it gets down to where we are? And that's not an easy task. It's one that requires a deep thought. And sometimes action is inaction. It's waiting until you have really rocked the situation. I think of Valentine Michael Smith and never in a hurry but always moving rapidly. How do you really figure out what's going on here and what is appropriate action? What's going to be the thing that is the least amount of effort with the highest amount of return? Yeah, the great Ai Qing piece also about do you have the patience to wait till the mud settles so that you can see with a great deal of clarity? Or as a therapist friend once said to me, you always have clarity after. But here's a point that I want to kneel. I'd love to hear from you. Is this a process that requires in some ways almost like a truth and reconciliation commission, a container, a place where people who have been pushing back against this and resisting can have a place to go to to talk? Or are we just going to supersede that conversation? Ken, I'm sure you've got some thoughts about that. I'm very interested in there was something called the public conversations project for years, but it was very ineptly named because they weren't having public conversations. They were having very closed door conversations. So I want to know how do we get these, what's the convening place for these very public conversations where there's a simple process that's open to people and there's an orientation, and then you dive in and you get going and we can do this online. And funding, how do we get it funded, right? But these, and I think this is what Fred and Helena are moving towards is they're raising funds to film this thing professionally and start this big conversation. But we really need way more engagement from people around these big questions of what constitutes appropriate action and what's going to work in your town, in your city or whatever. Fran Peavey who wrote strategic questioning, famous for going around the world with a card table and a sign and two folding chairs. And the sign said American, willing to listen. And she'd set up in a town square or a city square or anywhere in the world and just sit down and people come up and doctors and what do you mean, let's just, anything you want to talk about, I'll listen, right? So how can we create those listening spaces? How can we, how can we get people to, you know, like, if you want to change, if the Ganges is polluted, you don't go in and start telling people the science of why it's bad, you know, for pollution, you say, how do you feel about the Ganges being polluted? And what would you like to see happen? You know, what would be a right action for you and your community that would feel good? Those are the kinds of questions that need to be informing these, these conversations. I think. Yeah. So we each have our roles to play. And I'm very clear that mine has to do with, how do you engage people that don't really care? And I just want to point out that with Live Aid, there were plenty of people that couldn't care less about the issue. They wanted to go to that concert. And being at the concert, they were now surrounded by a whole new community and the narrative that they were being fed was different. So, you know, take people out of Fox News, put them into a Live Aid concert, you're going to see attitudes changing. So that's where my focus is. What a Gen Pop concert. You know what Gen Pop is, right? It's a prison term. Put them in the general population of a prison and see how they fare. Yeah, Stuart had invited Mila to reflect. Mila, you have something to say? No, I was just listening. I think it's not about one solution. It's experimentation. It's lots like the stories. It's also just like in biology, there's a lot of pioneering species. That's algae, you know, lichen, moss. You've got to try a lot and some of them are going to fail sort of, but they're learning. So it's acting locally. How do we act locally in terms of action coming back to Wendy? The story is just very simple things. Nothing big, you know, major technology. You could do analog and technology. I don't know. I just think we need to just test it out, do a lot of experimentation, including opposing ones, and something will come out of it. And that's how actually innovation starts. And that's kind of evolution starts like that. You just have to propagate a lot of different diversity and then the selection process and then it replicates. It's literally that, you know, variation, diversity. And then there's a selection of what the ones that actually are feeding into the ecosystem gives value to the ecosystem as a result. And often it's by accident. And it's not these long-term planning, it's literally sprints, like, you know, weeks. And then you look at it and you informs the next step, informs the next step. I find that's the best way. It's a bit like what Ken said about going, what's the stone that's at the front? But it's not just one stone. It's many, many, many stones, many, many, including many, many, many stories. And I call them the edge communities, the edge pioneers. And to Stuart's point, I think, I don't know if you've ever watched the innovation, you know, sort of the innovation curve that is about 15% is usually the early adopters and then the crossing the chasm. I forgot his name. But there's a video more. Yes, that's the guy. There's a video of this guy who just dances in front of lots of people. I think Stacy's talking about this. He's just dancing in front of people and they just don't care. They're just looking at him. It's like, what a jerk. And then there's the next person who dances with this person. And then suddenly there's a whole bunch of people. It's a whole viral thing. And to your point, Stacy, if you can do this on several level, people always think there's one, but I think it's actually a lot of different attempts, experiments. And some of them become more and more viral. Yeah. If we go in both directions. Just a brief story. It's kind of like Ken's in some ways. I was on a men's retreat around 1990. And it was three o'clock in the morning after two days. And everybody was crazy. Everybody was just nuts. And men were all up in the middle of the night. And all of a sudden, I don't know why I was moved, but I was moved to start kind of oming from the core of my being. And within about 60 seconds, everybody joined into the home. And then I was able to quiet everything down consciously. And I don't know. There's something viral about that. About that. It was almost like I was tapping into some creation sound of some kind, some buzzing, some vibration of some kind. But that's, I think that's the kind of vibration that we want to attach. It's nonverbal. It's beyond all these words that we're talking about. It's the connected tissue. Back to connection. For a different time, because we're close to the end of this call, Mila, what you were just saying about how plans evolve and all that, I need to mash that up somehow with what Jordan proposes from a construction manager's perspective for how we manage and steer with a visible dashboard, et cetera, et cetera, and measurable increments, a community of communities like the ones that we're in. Because there's some interesting spot in the middle that doesn't feel exactly like the project planning system at Rockforce and also doesn't feel like spaghetti thrown on the wall. And I'd love to know what that is. And maybe what it means is frequent reassessment. One of the nice things about open space methodology is that every morning of a multi-day open space, you meet and do the market all over again. You don't do the market for three days. You do the market for today. And whatever shows up on the market is whatever happens. And during the day, if somebody has a great idea, they can come post it into a future session for that day, totally legit. But the next day, you read the notes from overnight. It's just being done right. There's sort of a way that you can catch up on what happened in all the sessions. And then you come into the marketplace anew. And that reset, I think, is super, super useful. So what does that look like for a group of people trying to get it done? It'd be interesting. Let's go ahead, Todd. I'm noticing, Jerry, that since you've put up the water lilies rather than the apocalypse as your background, I feel differently about you. I'm wondering if you did this intentionally as some sort of background metaphor. I've been switching backgrounds as the mood shifted, as my mood shifted. And if anybody saw, I had the Wally background from buy blue. Blue is really great. And then they all press a button and suddenly everybody's wearing blue. And it was like, yeah, you know, we're heading toward the apocalypse, which was in idiocracy, I think was the first one I used. And so I've been shifting with sort of moods and intentionally went toward nature when Ken was like, you know, if everybody steps outside and stands on the earth or lies on the ground for a while every day, I'm like, mm-hmm. So I just want to share who's been audiencing this conversation. Nice. Honestly. He is one complicated character. Yes. Did you know that he laid the foundation for corporate personhood? Yeah. And that maybe keeping the union together was not such a good idea. Right. Yeah. And then at the Kettysburg address, the other speaker spoke for like an hour and a half. And is and when no one remembers what he said. And when Lincoln spoke, he was like, wait, what? And nobody thought a big deal of Lincoln's words at all. Like didn't make the news, you know, no big deal until later. And everybody realized just how measured and important his words were. Yeah. He was actually inspiration and an inspiration and the mediation community as a lawyer. He was a big deal. Yeah. The whole sub story there for us. Go ahead, Ken. I'd be very interested to know how Fred and Helene see this thing moving forward, you know, as they come up with their professional filmed one. And you know, it seems like the video is simply the impetus for a conversation like we're having. And, you know, there hopefully this will reach many, many thousands of people, tens of thousands, perhaps hundreds or even millions of people. Right. And how what are they thinking about in terms of networking those conversations and exposing the value from each one to other communities? You know, I also truly hope that the it was sort of touched on earlier in the call here. It seems very slanted towards the left. And I would like to see people right of center being brought into this conversation. You know, when I was running dialogues, people would always say, well, what do you do about, you know, these people? And don't go for the for the extremes. You know, if you're having a conversation about making the world better, don't invite the Nazis in, because they're just going to disrupt the fuck out of things. Right. It's like, if you don't agree that those people have a right to exist, then you don't belong in this conversation. You're not part of the dialogue. You're not contributing to it. So, you know, there's an enormous middle that can be reached here. And how do we get the middle connected to each other? Right. So I think that's the next that it's lovely that they're doing this to bring to stimulate these conversations. And the next level up from that is, now that we got the conversations going, how do we network them? How do we harvest them? How do we expose people who've been part of one to recognize this going on elsewhere? And that's what's on my mind here. Ken, do you have any knowledge? I'm sorry, Jerry, do you have any knowledge of how far they've thought this through? No, I mean, just I've had two email exchanges with Helene. I don't know anything other than that. Just, you know, hey, I'm going to do this. And she's like, great, here's the information. So I'm friends with Doug Rushkoff, who's written a bunch of different books, including Future Shock, where he has a page and a half about me and my brain, which when April read it, she's like learned a lot about me, which was kind of cool. But he wrote a book called Team Human, and then he started an organization called Team Human, and it attracted a huge number of people, got lots and lots of interest, and he really didn't know what to do with it. And also it attracted a lot of people who were really in despair. And I think a couple people in the community discussions, a couple people that are committing suicide, put him in a tremendous moral quandary. He was like, oh my God, what's going on? What do I do? How do I handle this? So I have a funny feeling that there's, and I collect communities trying to fix the world. That's the thought I put them under. And I don't think Team Human is under it yet, but right now I'm going to put them under that. I have a feeling that there's different levels of high-functioning, low-functioning across all these different communities. Game B is hitting some kind of really interesting acceleration. And some of us are in some of those other communities in different ways. And the thing I keep trying to figure out is how do we form, how do we become like glial cells that help connect and hold these different efforts in place and kind of collimate, resonate, connect up the places where they all resonate. And we all think that brains are only about neurons. Well, the glial cells actually like are also neurotransmitters and hold everything in place. And glial glue is a really important function. So how can we help accelerate these different movements toward change, toward action by making the overlaps and resonances more evident, easier to see and find, so that people can then double up and find the benefits by helping people externalize and make visible and therefore more useful the belief systems, the methods and techniques, the group processes and all that kind of stuff, all of those sorts of things. And Wendy, we should put this all up in some kind of, oh, I don't know, woven electronic artifact. Like tapestry. Mila, go ahead. And then Wendy, if you want. It was the whole day yesterday with the co-founder of Extension Rebellion and the co-leaders. And some of them are moving away from Extension Rebellion because the culture has changed. And they're wanting to form what is called be the change and really led by youth. So the elders are more kind of helping shape strategy, giving wisdom. But fundamentally, what they're looking for is that a technological platform, what you just described, Jerry, because they've got 10,000 cells across the world, like constellations nodes in various countries. And how do you get them to collaborate and understand, not only collaborate, but just share learning. And I've always said, you know, act locally, collaborate bioregionally. And the global platform isn't a carbon spoke, it's literally a learning platform and a network platform. And then how, you know, but it's on the groundwork that creates the real collaboration, connection, human connection. Digitally, it's very difficult, especially of doing some kind of project. That's when you know what a person, whether you want to work with this person for your entire lifetime that you can work 24 seven with. Digitally, it can be done, but as Ken said, if you need processes, a really good facilitator to do that continuous water cooler connection. But it's very different than in person. So it's, how do you do that analog and digitally? They were looking at this yesterday, we were talking about it all day, because there's no such platform. That's technologically housed that possible, but not be driven by Patrick, by white men, I'm sorry, you know, because these are people from all over the world. So that it doesn't become dominant, only the white kind of domination or Western domination of people with the experts, you know. Because there's, there's another Ashoka fellow that has done a platform like this in India and Indonesia to eight million people. And she uses 12 Indonesian developers. And that's it. And so this whole thinking that it has to come from the Western world is, you know, we need to be very careful and be very mindful, because there are some real intelligent people out there, we're just not knowing it. So how do we collect that? But it's not about having, and it's actually saying, we don't have resources, how do we do this? Then we become very resourceful, because in developing countries, they're resourceful without no money. You know, that's why the leapfrogs of technology happen because of that. It's, you know, not in spite of it. So I would like to see that because you're talking about things that I'm hearing left, right and center in so many different communities, not just in the Western hemisphere, but also globally, in Asia, in Australia, in Middle East, in Africa. So there's some consciousness rising, wanting this to connect to each other. And it's not the internet. It's the internet. And internet is more about connections. A question. I mean, it's great to hear you say that about other parts of the world that you're working in. What pops up in my mind is, could you just say a little bit about how that contrasts to people in other parts of the world, you know, wanting to emulate what's going on in America and Europe? It don't emulate America. Thank you. It don't. Like, I'm pretty sure you know about the grassroots communities in Kenya. They use a normal, not a smartphone. They use a normal text phone. Picture phone. And it's, yeah, and it's actually on blockchain, very basic blockchain to actually do value exchange in the community. And they can use it without internet. And I'm also looking at people who is actually now creating locally based, I don't know what it's called, you know, like when if, because I know that when this happens, the climate happens exponentially, by tomorrow we won't have any power or anything like that. So they're creating local, what is it called, local antenna to be able to communicate to each other locally. You know, so it's like an internet, but it's in a local community and also for their mobile, as well as for being able to communicate. So there are things that are happening on the ground at the moment. It's just not in the mainstream, unfortunately. Thank you. Before going to stay, see a really brief plug for the movie, the new Japanese movie, Drive My Car, which is not what I expected, is three hours long. It's a slow movie, but it's delightfully slow. It's like a really nice slow movie. And one of the plot points that fits what we were just talking about is that the protagonist is a theater director who love, whose special thing is other people's plays where each character is speaking in their native language and comes from a different country. And it's all Asian countries. So his specialty is the play Uncle Vanya by Chekhov. And so there's a Korean person playing one character, Indonesian person playing a different character, a couple Japanese, etc. etc. It's really, really interesting. And then there are subtitles basically in multiple languages overhead, so you can see what everybody's saying. But having that mix on stage is just its own, that one little piece is a really interesting sort of conceit for the movie. And it's completely sort of all about Asia, except the play they're all doing is a Russian play. Stacey, I think you have the last one. Okay, I'll go quick. If you're wondering why I jumped up, my dog was throwing up. That's like everybody jumps over that. That red book on the table, coincidentally somebody gave me, that's Team Human. Jerry. And okay, so going to what Ken talked about with meeting more people on the right, we have an opportunity right here. If each one of us here committed to having one of these sessions, hosting one of these sessions, we all have acquaintances at least that we get along with that are totally different politics, but we still have some affinity to them. If I said, I'm going to host my poll and I'm going to bring a few of these people together, we get along, we live in the same neighborhood maybe. That would be a starting point if everyone on the poll did that. That's a ready building connection right there. And we, you know, I just want to point that out. Thank you, Stacey. I'm offering. It's late where you are, Mila. Thank you for being here and we should drop this call. Ken, any final words? Thanks, Jerry, for stepping up when I was, after I was talking to Matt. See you on Saturday. Okay, Mila, take care. Oh, you know, I'm just grateful that we have this opportunity. I really enjoy hearing people's thoughts on this, even if it's not necessarily directly related to the movies that we've seen, but this has been a really rich conversation and I go away with a lot of things to think about. So thank you all. It's lovely to see you and we have one more. We'll be on Saturday morning. So we'll see you then. And I'll watch the father. I watched the father the night with Anthony Hopkins and Olivia Coleman and Olivia Williams and Rufus Sewell and oh my God, what an amazing movie. I can't get it out of my brain and not the brain on this brain, the wet brain. It's so intriguing and runs the gamut from very funny to extremely poignant to really heartfelt and such an interestingly told story. Stuart, did you say you saw it? I did. Excellent movie. It's so well done also the way the staging of it was terrific. And then we watched the extras on the DVD and it was just really interesting to hear. Rufus Sewell is going, yeah, I walked past him and I thought that's me on the couch with Anthony Hopkins. Me on the couch with Anthony Hopkins. And when he's there, he just makes it so easy, but then you go, oh my God, I'm actually with Anthony Hopkins. It's like really, really cool. And yeah, so it's a great film. Awesome. All right. Thank you. See y'all soon. See y'all very soon. See you real soon. Thank you everyone. Thank you. Bye-bye.